February Narcissus 2011

[Rafa]

Thank you ladies!

Well she's learning...

[tonyg]

I hope that Rafa will help with the ID of this, seen a couple of days ago, west of Denia in the region of Valencia.  I initially thought it was N tortifolius but not sure the leaves are broad and long enough.  On arriving home and consulting Blanchard's book, I wonder if it is N dubius.  It seemed more creamy white than the pure white of N papyraceus.  It was quite strongly scented and interestingly, the scent was more like N jonquilla than N papyraceus.  I'm currently struggling with a new camera, so apologies for picture quality.  In the past I would not have dreamed of taking a picture without a tripod but was risking this hand held using the vibration reduction setting.

Seems like you have settled on N dubius.  It looks like the plant I grew under that name (from seed - took ages to flower) which matched the plants exhibited by Bob and Rannveig Wallis under the name N dubius.

[Diane Clement]

Many people consider N. dubius has an hybridogen origin between N. assoanus and N. papyraceus, my personal oppinion is that this is wrong.

Thanks Rafa for the links, and your interesting ideas on the origin of N dubius, and for confirming this as the species I saw

  There are not N. papyraceus or N. pannizianus (if you support it) in the principal distribution regions of N. dubius: Cataluña, Valencia, Zaragoza, Navarra.... and in south France neither.

This is interesting.  One day we stopped for a drink in a bar at Val D'Ebo near Pego in the Valencia region.  On the bar was a vase of (I thought) Narcissus papyraceus.  I asked the owner where did she get the plants - she replied "in the mountains near here.  There weren't very many this year, so I picked them all."     
I didn't take a photo so only have my memory, but they certainly looked and smelled like N papyraceus.  So the problem continues 

[Rafa]

Diane, It is possible N. papyraceus, but until anybody register an herbarium sheet from this species collected in Valencia, for Scientific comunity, this plants doesn't occur there.

It is very interesting your testimony, because this Narcissus sp# Tazettae, smells like N. papyraceus. This character is hereditary attached to female gamets, I think, like other crosses in narcissus ej N. x matritensis (N. pallidulus smell)).
So if we keeping speculating with this idea, we could know something about this ancient crosses between N. assoanus and N. sp# tazettae: the direction in this hybrid was the "mother" = N. assoanus, but not only because it smell fine also because there are yellow N. dubius.

Maybe they were both directions in that crosses (N. assoanus x N. sp #tazettae) and (N. sp# tazettaex N. assoanus) and this could explain two tendecies concerning the smell. As Jonquillae and Tazettae are quite similar both directions in the hybrids could create also similar species, like false twins 

[ArnoldT]

Close up

[Rafa]

Arnold, I would said N. assoanus, beautiful anyway

[ArnoldT]

Rafa:

Wow are things mixed up.  I have N. Assoanus coming up and it will interesting to see what that looks like.

[Gerdk]

A selection of some hoops - just in flower

1. Narcissus albidus - from Jebel Zerhoun/Morocco
2. + 3. Narcissus bulbocodium from Tizi n'Tichka/Morocco
4. + 5. Narcissus hedraeanthus - from Alcatraz/Spain
6. + 7. Narcissus hedraeanthus (white variant) x N. cantabricus
8. Narcissus cantabricus from Calatrava/Spain

I am interested in Rafas comment concerning the Alcatraz plant (4 + 5.)

Gerd

           

[David Nicholson]

Lovely selection Gerd. Your hedraeanthus is gorgeous.

Two of mine from the greenhouse today:-

The first three images are Narcissus 'Elka' raised by Alec Gray. Daffseek says "...... the difference in structure of chromosomes (14) indicate the plant is a wild hybrid and unlikely to be fertile." But Elka was the pollen parent of N. 'Puppy Love' raised in USA in 2007. Daffseek also says that the corona opens yellow becoming white as the flower matures.

The next three are what must be the longest name in the world, N.romieuxii ssp. mesatlanticus x N. bulbocodium forma 'Anne' raised of course by Anne Wright. I thought Anne had sorted out a new name for this cross but can't find where I saw it. My pet name for it is 'Anne's cross' much easier to write on the label.

[Rafa]

First comment: I want them!    hahaha
Gerd, fantástic post. As you know I am not very sure about all these bulbocodium... I support N. hedraeanthus as the little pale yellow bulbocodium isolated in the "geobiological" region from Alcaraz, Cazorla to Las Villas Mountain Ranges. It is a variable species and in these Mountains there are different forms and colours, and you can find pure white forms to pale yellow. I think in the future It will be several lineages from N. blancoi depending the isolation of their localities, the proximity and influence of their ancient parents.

I enclose this map of distribution, but PLEASE undestand this picture as my personal vision or oppinion concerning this group. Even my botanist friends are not very agree with me so...

[Gerry Webster]

A selection of some hoops - just in flower

1. Narcissus albidus - from Jebel Zerhoun/Morocco
2. + 3. Narcissus bulbocodium from Tizi n'Tichka/Morocco
4. + 5. Narcissus hedraeanthus - from Alcatraz/Spain
6. + 7. Narcissus hedraeanthus (white variant) x N. cantabricus
8. Narcissus cantabricus from Calatrava/Spain
I am interested in Rafas comment concerning the Alcatraz plant (4 + 5.)
Gerd

A lovely collection Gerd. I have a question about N. albidus. On your photo the style looks to be white which might suggest N. cantabricus. What do you think?

[Lesley Cox]

 My pet name for it is 'Anne's cross' much easier to write on the label.

As well as belonging to Anne, this could also be read as "Anne is cross." But I'm sure she wouldn't be.

[annew]

Very nice collection Gerd!
David - I just discussed this daffodil with another forumist. Tockwith Anne should be renamed 'Robin Metcalf' (it was he, not me, who raised it). It is not a registered name, so I feel I can change it willy nilly - I never liked the name, and I feel I'm much more of a trumpet than a hoop petticoat type, should I ever have a daff named in my honour. I will not change it again, so you can rewrite your label with confidence. It is a good 'doer'.
Nice to see 'Elka' - I have difficulty getting it to flower.

[annew]

PS I'm not cross 

[Gerdk]

Thanks for kind comments!

@ Rafa: There is a hedraeanthus population near Alcatraz which has much darker tinted flowers than those from the Sierra de Cazorla. My plants didn't show the real tone.
Is there already a description of Narcissus blancoi? (maybe I lost the paper).

@ Gerry:  I received my Narcissus albidus from an Austrian friend under that name.  I have to confess that I didn't recheck them. One reason was that the bulbocodium/romieuxii/cantabricus complex seems awfully confusing - even when you try to follow the authorities.
But according Blanchard the style of Narcissus (romieuxii) albidus  the style is white.
I attach a pic of Narcissus albidus SF 110 - received from a nice forumist under that name and you'll notice that the style is white also.

Gerd