Allium 2010

[TheOnionMan]

Allium amethystinum from my collection. Origin - Turkey. near Uzumlu at 1300 m altitude. Identified by Arnis Seisums.
Janis

Janis, beautiful photos, a really attractive Allium.  The inflorescences are at early-mid anthesis in your photos, no florets are at the fertilized stage where they start swelling into seed capsules.  Any photos of this at late anthesis, where perchance the "second-tier" effect happens when the pedicels stand erect and lengthen upwards?

One area I'm always wary of, is IDs within Allium section Allium (even when digging through Brian Mathew's excellent book "A review of Allium section Allium"), there are just too many look-alike species, taxonomic quagmires, and significant species variability.

[Sinchets]

This is what I am currently growing as A.amethystinum- the pic was posted last summer. Maybe it is not true or maybe it is just variable. I bought the plant before I moved here and now know the species is native to SE Bulgaria as well as Turkey 

Looks like A. sphearocephalon to me.

Thanks, I had had my doubts but it did come from a reliable source 

[Hendrik Van Bogaert]

I like the pictures too! I just received the new catalogue of Janis Ruksans by mail. He has an unusually large number of new Allium species, uncommon things and the novelties are superb. Some of them are only recently described by R. Fritsch, like A. issakulii nuratense, pseudobodeanum. You can ask a copy of his new catalogue at janis.bulb@hawk.lv.

Hendrik

[Rodger Whitlock]

I spent an hour this morning weeding out Allium roseum from a bed largely planted with bulbs. Once again, the genus Allium has demonstrated that in this congenial climate, it's a thug of the worst type.

Earlier in the winter, thin, bright green leaves had emerged and my suspicious eye had wondered, is that that unspeakable plant yet again? For some years, I've sedulously lifted all specimens that came into flower, and had foolishly thought it was under control - but, no, alas, quite the contrary. In fact, it appears that prior years' eradication efforts have made matters worse, not better.

Today it has stopped raining and the temperature is about +6C, warm enough for gardening if you wear a jacket, but cold enough that one's fingers become chilled to the bone poking about in the soil. Out I went with kneeling pad, fern trowel, and a container. Diggity-dig-dig. Curse-swear-invect-blaspheme!

What I observed is that mature bulbs (approaching flowering size) form small offsets, similar in appearance to slightly fat mustard seeds. These are quite loose in the soil at this time of year, so when you lift a bulb of sufficient maturity, you must carefully pick out the offsets that are unearthed or your efforts will have been in vain. Fortunately, the offsets are fairly easy to spot against the black earth.

These offsets formed last summer appear not to actively grow this, their first winter, but those from earlier years send up a thin paired leaf. When you lift such a young plant, there are no offsets to worry about, but it's rather like digging up individual blades of grass one at a time.

To really bring this horror under control, it will be necessary for me to carefully and painstakingly search out these growing offsets in future years and lift them before they have matured to the point of being strong enough to form offsets themselves.

Is there a strain of Allium roseum that does not grow like a thug?

[anita]

Mark,

Thanks for your suggestions regarding Thad Howard's book, I have had it for a couple of years and it's been a useful guide leading me into a number of genera such as Hymenocallis, Ismenes and even selected Tulipa that have thrived here. I was saddened to hear of his death as he had a lovely personable writing style. He basically suggested that all of the giant alliums are unsuitable for the South as they don't persist in summer rainfall climates. That's obviously not a problem for me!
I did read the 09 Allium thread with interest but even plants that grow in Israel and Lebanon are not a safe bet here as locations such as the Golan Heights and elsewhere in the region get seriously cold so species that thrive there may like our hot summers but fail to bloom due to lack of winter chill. I try and check out references which give me a clue as to altitude of natural occurences so I can try and guess which ones need that chill.
I've got a bulb of A. schubertii in the garden and if it gets through our version of winter and flowers next year sans winter chill, I'll have a heap more to plant (hopefully) from the seed I collected this year!
I'll follow up your suggestion of Scott Ogden's book, but again from the read I had on Amazon it looks like he deals with summer-rainfall areas... but any clues will be helpful!  Thanks

John(W),
Thanks for thinking of me... I wish I could have access to that surplus... but I'm sure that by the time I got through our stringent quarantine circus, they'd still be pretty expensive.

Janis,
I guess I'm just going to have to rely on trial and error... I always appreciate your postings as you nearly always include references to the altitude of your collections so that's a helpful clue. I have also trawled through your terrific book which is full of post it notes on species that might grow here if they ever become available in Australia. I understand Marcus Harvey is importing bulbs from you and Mark so I'm hoping that in future the range of alliums available in Aus will increase.

Thanks for everybody's suggestions. It would be appreciated if residents of Turkey or Israel could suggest some of the lower altitude alliums that persist there.

Cheers Anita

[TheOnionMan]

Once again, the genus Allium has demonstrated that in this congenial climate, it's a thug of the worst type.
...
Is there a strain of Allium roseum that does not grow like a thug?

Wow, someone got up on the wrong side of the onion patch today ;-)

Since the estimated species count is about 850, may I suggest starting a new thread "850 things I hate about Allium" 

Seriously though, I grow about 150 Allium types, and don't have any such problems with them.  Although with Campanula punctata and C. takesimana, I have given up on trying to eradicate these beastly beauties, and when I lived in a milder climate (Seattle), the blaspheming thugs were English bluebells and sundry Muscari.

[TheOnionMan]

Thanks for your comments Mark. Will be hopefully be able to take some close-ups next summer - if I have any plants left, highs  of between -18 and -20C forecast over the next few days (thankfully, we now have a reasonable snowcover).

The more you look at pictures of my Alliums, the closer I'm getting to Dr. Fritsch's statement that 60% or more of Alliums are wrongly identified (even in botanical gardens!).

Update regarding your Allium not-atropurpureum identity.

When I first saw the picture, my first instinct was Allium atrosanguineum (a species I have lusted for a long time) based on the characteristic dark persistent spathe valves, fistular leaves, and dark grape-like buds, but in the subject plant the overall appearance and character look rather different, too slim, and not nearly as distinctive as the species appear to be in photos I have seen, so I dismissed that thought.

Kurt Vickery, who has been lurking about these pages, wrote to me and suggested that it looks like an "out of character" Allium atrosanguineum, probably a result of growing this high alpine species in lowland conditions, thus making it harder to recognize.  He also sent a great photo taken at high altitude in Kazakhstan showing a meadow vista of Allium atrosanguineum, Tulipa heterophylla, and Primula algida... splendid!

I wrote and asked if I could post his photo; haven't heard back yet, so am hoping he'll not be miffed at me if I jump the gun and share it with you. 

Back to Allium atrosanguineum, look at the following photos links (including the beautiful yellow form properly known as Allium atrosanguineum var. fedschenkoanum.  When in character, this is one of the most amazing looking alliums ever.  Suggestion, use Google Toolbar translate feature to read any of the text on the photo links.

Allium atrosanguineum:
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/3125.html

A. atrosanguineum var. fedschenkoanum
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/39378.html

There is also a Chinese form, A. atrosanguineum var. tibeticum, described as having flowers "brass yellow to copper red, lustrous".... ooh, sounds good.

Two New Combinations in Central Asian and Chinese Allium (Alliaceae)
http://hua.huh.harvard.edu/china/novon/Zhu&Turland10-2.htm

enjoy

[Janis Ruksans]

My Allium weed is A. zebdanense. May be paradoxum normale could be, too but I'm not growing it on regular beds, but it naturalized with me under trees in old shade garden.
Janis

[TheOnionMan]

My Allium weed is A. zebdanense. May be paradoxum normale could be, too but I'm not growing it on regular beds, but it naturalized with me under trees in old shade garden.
Janis

Some notes... to explore the issue of reported weediness on the part of these alliums:

Allium zebdanense has a disjunct natural distribution, Lebanon, Syria (in an area adjacent to Lebanon), and northeastern Turkey.  The Turkish forms grow in rock crevices and ledges, whereas the Lebanese plants grow in humid subalpine to lowland areas.  I've heard reports of invasiveness for this species, while others don't find it so (myself among them), therefore I wonder if some clones depending on their provenance are more aggressive than others.  I've grown Allium zebdanense for over 30 years, with beautiful clumps for +20 years in my current location, and it has always been well-behaved, slowly clumping species, among the safest and most beautiful species suitable for dry shade in a woodland setting. It sets almost no seed, and it is rare to ever find a self-sown seedling.

A few friends I shared this plant with report the same restrained behavior. I uploaded some photos taken in my friend's garden and in mine.  When grown in the sun, the clumps don't bulk up as well, and the leaves appear yellowish green instead of deep green (it likes shade better).  It is among the earlier flowering Allium species, a good addition to a woodland garden with hosta and other shade plants, the allium completely drying up and going dormant a few weeks after flowering.  

Regarding Allium paradoxum var. normale, for those who don't know this Iranian species, the type species can be invasive because most flowers are replaced by bulbils that drop and start new plants.  But var. normale is the form without bulbils, just heads of large pendulous white flowers (thus theoretically not invasive as the "type" species is).  In my climate, I can barely keep it alive because it is the first Allium to bloom, so early in fact, that tender foliage and buds are often ruined by heavy frosts.  

Janis, is the form that has naturalized under trees in your old shade garden regular A. paradoxum or is it variety "normale".  I'd like to see a photo of that allium naturalized in bloom, must be a beautiful sight!

I uploaded an old photo of A. paradoxum v. normale in my garden from 2001, not a good quality shot, wasn't using a very good camera back then.  You can notice from marred foliage, from frost burn.

[Sinchets]

I think another problem is that there is seed being passed around labelled as A.zebdanense, which isn't. I now mine wasn't.

[TheOnionMan]

I think another problem is that there is seed being passed around labelled as A.zebdanense, which isn't. I now mine wasn't.

Simon, that's interesting... haven't heard this before but it doesn't surprise me.  The form that I grow, for all intents and purposes, can be considered "nearly sterile", rarely making but a few seed, or none, in any given year.

[Janis Ruksans]

Yes, I know that there are two varieties of Allium paradoxum. My first stock of unknown origin usually maid 1-2 flowers and 3-5 bulbils in inflorescence. I very soon destroyed it. During RSZ trip to N Talish (then in Soviet Azerbaijan) near small waterfall at vil. Lerik we found population of var. normale which turned excellent grower in garden and never forms bulbils. It perfectly grows with me, set seeds and is selfsowing in shade under trees. It grew well in sunny border at S wall of house but there it is protected by a lot of other bulbous plants and perennials. But it isn't so vigorous than in shade. Planted on sunny nursery beds it is week and suffers from hot and may be too dry conditions. It is the reason why I'm rarely offering it in my catalogues. Searching for bulbs in place where it is naturalised isn't easy for tree roots, other plant roots and usually at harvesting time the exact spots are forgotten.

Allium zebdanense I'm growing on nursery beds in full sun, but it split enormously and it is impossible to harvest all small bulbils. I don't know origin of my stock - I suppose I got it from late Michael Hoog or from Willem van Eeden (both in Holland) very long ago. Those unharvested zebdanense bulbils fills the soil where it was planted earlier. Fortunately it makes leaves in autumn and spraying with roundup helps to clean soil from this nice weed. Regardless of its habitat in nature it is surprisingly hardy and alive even hardiest winters when many other bulbs suffered or even died.

In attachments some pictures of Allium paradoxum var. normale.

Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Looking for Allium paradoxum pictures, I accidentally opened 2 other pictures which I suppose would be interesting for Allium lovers.

On the first you can see typical locality for Allium karataviense in Kara-Tau mountains. Kara - means black - and you can see stones there are black. Tau is mountains. Bulbs of Allium karataviense are fixed below unstable some 20 cm thick layer of sliding stone chips where starts some humus and soil. It is slope of Ber-kara gorge - kara is water and really for black stones in stream bottom, water looks blackish. It is place from where I discovered two new species - Corydalis schanginii subsp. ainae and Tulipa berkariense which I named but not published as I was a little doubtfull about it - is it worth of new species name. Just recently Ben J.M. Zonnenveld published article in which he mentions that by genome it is new species. This well known gorge turned very rich in new plants.

On other slide is beautiful Allium moly variety 'Jeannine' selected by Michael Hoog and named by his wife. It is characterised by softer yellow color of flowers, usually 2 stems per bulb and is blooming much later than usual commercial form of A. moly, which flowers are more greenish yellow in shade and with more pointed petals. When usual form is in full flowers, 'Jeannine' only emerges from soil. Side by side is Allium oreophilum cv. 'Agaliks Giant' selected by me from wild material collected during my second mountain trip to Central Asia at heights of Agalik river not far from Samarkand. It is tallest of oreophilums grown by me and planted side by side with 'Jeannine' makes very nice border. Picture is very old, for very long my stocks of both cultivars are very small, but I still well remember how beautiful they both were stayin in same bed side by side.

Janis

[Onion]

Janis,

wonderful information you gave us, with these two pictures. This is why I love these forum. Every day I can learn more and more about the plants we love.
Tanks a lot

[Stephenb]

Update regarding your Allium not-atropurpureum identity.

When I first saw the picture, my first instinct was Allium atrosanguineum (a species I have lusted for a long time) based on the characteristic dark persistent spathe valves, fistular leaves, and dark grape-like buds, but in the subject plant the overall appearance and character look rather different, too slim, and not nearly as distinctive as the species appear to be in photos I have seen, so I dismissed that thought.

enjoy

I certainly did enjoy those pictures - to die for...

It certainly looks like my Allium is atrosanguineum. Easy to mix up the names atrosanguineum and atropurpureum too. Talking about my plant being atypical as it is growing in the lowlands, don't forget that it's also growing in the land of the midnight sun too...