Narcissus September - December 2009

[Sinchets]

Have you had any seed from them, Gerry? I have a few batches of seedlings coming on from 'Treble Chance' and wondered if they will look like the parent.

[Gerry Webster]

No Simon. Although I've had these plants  for some time these are the first flowers. Previously they were kept in an open frame & I didn't keep an eye on them so  the flowers were eaten.

[LucS]

My first of the many winterbloomers to come.
Said to be a natural hybrid between N. bulbocodium ssp genuinus and
N. albidus ssp albidus (SF102)

[dominique]

Luc, very nice hybrid indeed. Thank you
Dom

[Luc Gilgemyn]

Bravo Mr. S. - a very nice potful !! 

[Gerry Webster]

Very nice indeed Luc.

[David Nicholson]

A really nice potfull LucS.

[Rafa]

Simon
I find that our two Taffeta seem different by the corona, yours more opened and crenalate than mine. Are you ok ? Rafa, Ian or Maggi could perhaps give they idea about them
Dom

Domi, I don't know vey much about Tafetta... all this group of N. catabricus realtives are very difficoult to me....

At least N. cantabricus in Spain contains two species: N cancabricus DC and Narcissus albicans (Howorth) Sprengel.

Many collections labeled as Narcissus cantabricus are in fact N. albicans, and this is why many of yours mentioned that your N. cantabricus is not pure white: this is because you probabily  grow N. albicans.

N. cantabricus is pure white always, and N. albicans is very variable also with pale yellow forms.

[David Nicholson]

Noses of Narcissus 'February Gold' are now showing in my garden.

[annew]

Rafa, do you mean that N cantabricus opens pure white also -  that is it does not open yellow and turn white?

[Rafa]

N. cantabricus, when open is cream-greenish but when is completely open is pure white, with the beggining of perianth tube greenish. But there is also another species, that maintain this cream color until completely open (or not), N. albicans. It is also described as an hybrid between N. cantabricus and N. bulbocodium (N. neocarpetanus var. romanensis) precisely because it could have yellow pale colour that could be similar than this hybrid N. x carpetanus.

The problem is that many collections in Spain were labeled as N. cantabricus because is very similar except this fundamental character in colour rage and also because N. cantabricus bulbs are little and monophyllus comparing N. albicans bigger and polyphyllus. So possibily there are many introductions in gardens of both species with the same name.

[Gerry Webster]

Rafa - the nomenclature of these plants  gets more & more confusing. In his monograph John Blanchard states that N. albicans Sprengel is a synonym of N. cantabricus DC. ssp. monophyllus  (Durieu) Fernandes.  This seems to be the opposite of what you are saying?

[Rafa]

Yes it is also confusing to me, Narcissus genus is a name dancing since the first descriptions, it is really complex. I haven't Blanchard's monograph but I think Narcissus is in constant taxonomic evolution so maybe many new descriptions or modifications will not in his book.

Other example could be Narcissus serotinus, that contained at least N. serotinus and N. miniatus (or N. deficiens).

This case of N. albicans is the same It has  been described many times with different names. Some authors has considered N. albicans as a species, other authors, considered that it was N. cantabricus var. luteolentus, N.x barrae, N. litigiosus var. granatensis, N. x magni-antonii, N. x neocarpetanus var. romanensis... and a long etc.

Personally  I support N. albicans, and N. cantabricus because explain some incoherence in Iberian populations specially in color, which is the first character that you can see . Now it is important to revised all N. cantabricus locations to know if it is N. albicans or N. cantabricus.

The collection I donated this year, Narcissus cantabricus 09-001, could be N. albicans, because It is not far from type locality of N. neocarpetanus var. romanensis (N. albicans).

[David Nicholson]

The Kew Checklist has Narcissus albicans as a synonym of N. cantabricus ssp monophyllus.

[Kees Jan]

Here are a few Narcissus photographed in Morocco in late October early November...