Narcissus April to June 2009

[Tony Willis]

Tony

yes it is in a pot under glass.I could not get it out to photograph it because it had rooted through. I did not see any at Cerler but hundreds of alpestris. it gets a very good drying of on summer with me.

I have just cut them and put them in a vase in the lounge so we can enjoy them.

[Brian Duncan]

I'll email Brian Duncan, Narcissus breeder, to see if he would like to comment

I'm just catching up Mark and I'm not sure what i can usefully add. VAn Sion aka N. telamonius plenus has been around since before 1620, Parkinson being the first to describe it. It comes in many forms, sometimes with neatly filled trumpet and sometines as a confused mess in the centre. The same bulb can produce various forms in different years - most doubles, even modern ones are subject to a bit of seasonal variability. Bowles writes well about it (p.87-88 in his NARCISSUS). It hybridises quite freely and I have small specimens having crossed it with N. asturiensis - about 50% of the seedlings are double. Though mostly vegetatively re-produced with this promiscuity it is not surprising that  it's form varies from location to location depending on the other parent. It is a very variable plant and attempts to assign it as a double version of a particular N. pseudonarcissus have so far failed. Maybe DNA sequencing will tell of it's relationship.
Van Sion is grown commercially on the cold windy island of Texel (where the sheep of that name come from)in the North Sea and the specimens shown at Breezand Show each Feb/MAr. are excellent, strong and healthy.
I regard N. Van Sion as my season indicator - if it opens on 17th MArch St Patricks Day, the season is about normal - this year it opened about 13-14 March and indeed my season so far is just a little bit earlier than usual.
Brian

[Regelian]

Brian, thanks for the info,

it looks as though this is actually a strain and not a clone, which would leave the clonal name Van Sion as technically invalid.  It should then be called N. telemonius plena Van Sion strain, I would think, similar to certain lilium strains.  Of course, a few centuries of history will support Van Sion as the popular name and the important part of names is that we know what we are reffering to.

At least this would explain why I have three similar, yet quite individual, clones in the garden.  As it is currently blooming, I may try some crosses to see what happens.  If I get the time, I would like to do a chromosome count and G-banding to see if there are any obvious genetic characteristics.  Sequencing is beyond my capabilities.

I really love looking in to mysteries, don't you?

Mark,

thanks for following-up on this! :wavey:

[Anthony Darby]

I bought Narcissus 'Mite' at the show in Dunblane, so that's another of my wants ticked off.

[Sinchets]

Narcissus marvieri in the garden and a Narcissus rupicola hybrid in the bulb frame.

[Brian Duncan]

Brian, thanks for the info,

it looks as though this is actually a strain and not a clone, which would leave the clonal name Van Sion as technically invalid.  I really love looking in to mysteries, don't you?

Jamie,
I'm sure clones could be selected from the Group if anyone if anyone thought it worthwhile though the seasonal variation would make this a difficult and lengthy exercise. As N. calcicola selection 'Idol' is strictly known as 'Idol group' because it is propaged from seed and not a precise clone I suppose 'Van Sion' could be similarly regarded - though it goes back so far in history and is so well known to be variable the addition of Group seems un-necessary and unweildly. The daffodil registrar uses the term Group instead of strain - which I think is in line with the International Nomenclatural Committee guidelines.(pardon if I have not got the precise title correct!
Brian

[Gerdk]

Here are two daffodils from today

1. Narcissus gaditanus - or N. assoanus - both are very similar, gaditanus has a curved tube - I can't decide is it curved or not
2. Narcissus triandrus ssp. triandrus - originally from n.w. Spain

Gerd

[Tony Willis]

Gerd I enjoyed your violas but that triandus is perfect.

Two more of mine

Narcissus abscissus
Narcissus pallidiflorus

[tonyg]

The first narcissus was collected as seed in Val D'Incles, Andorra.  Might be N pallidiflorus.  Any other suggestions?

Below is Narcissus nobilis var primigenius.  Only 15-20cm tall it is much smaller than 'standard' N nobilis.  Again raised from seed.

[Anthony Darby]

Here are three in the garden today: Nn. pseudonarcissus; moschatus and one I don't know.

[annew]

Great daffodils everyone. Tony W I love your Narcissus abscissus - what an elegant flower. Tony G I like your nobilis too. The slugs are eating most of my daffodils in the garden. I've just come back in from a patrol and bagged quite a few. How come every other house in the village has acres of the things, while mine are just stalks or even stumps???

[tonyg]

Anne I know the feeling!  Last year every flower in my narcissus frame seemed to have its own pet snail
We had a purge in that part of the garden in the autumn.  Cleared all weedy areas around the frame and laid a new path alongside.  General clearance also exposed many potential snail dens to the local blackbirds.  Oh and I have placed some 'wildlife friendly' slug and snail killer in between the pots.  Result: almost no damage this year although increased vigilance has enabled me to catch and dispatch any survivors early.
However - this may not help as the pictures I have seen of your garden suggest tidiness and order, things sadly missiing here in recent years

[annew]

However - this may not help as the pictures I have seen of your garden suggest tidiness and order, things sadly missiing here in recent years

I am very selective of the views I take.  You should see behind the photographer!

[Regelian]

Here is a favourite late Narcissus, which I purchased some years ago at Chelsea.  As I recall, it was called UFO.

[WimB]

Some Narcissus-cultivars flowering here now