Narcissus March 2009 -

[Alan_b]

The WHOLE GARDEN was full of rare plants that you might never have seen before, mostly old "heritage" varieties.  But Rip van Winkel must be pointing me in the right direction. 

Are there any virescent narcissi in cultivation?  I had never seen a green one before this; one reason why I found it so striking.   

[Anthony Darby]

Don't know what it is Alan, but it seems that several are affected!

[Diane Clement]

Here is my Narcissus perez-chiscanoi (or dare I say, Narcissus hispanicus ssp perez-chiscanoi  )

Maggi and Ian, it is distinctly different to the one Ian has shown on his blog as it has rolled over edge to the corolla.  This is a constant feature

[Maggi Young]

Will show the BD this one asap, Diane ....what a cute rolled flare.

[annew]

That's a remarkable daff, Diane

[Maggi Young]

Diane, a bit dark to see tonight but yours does look like our "perez-chiscanoi".
I wonder if the others you  are thinking of are some of those smaller types  we have which Ian just calls perez-chiscanoi hybrids ? ( he crossed it with cyclamineus).
 I'll check  to see what he has pictured !
 I see in Log 10 of 2009 he has pictured the hybrids but captioned the photo as perez chiscanoi ! 
More pix of both types in logs 15/06 , 9/07 and 12/07.
It seems that our p-c do  have a similarly rolled trumpet, but this only shows when ours are very fully open or in warm sunshine. They don't get much of that when they're in a frame in Aberdeen.... I wonder if your better light is the  difference. The funny little white tip-spots are the same, I see.

[Diane Clement]

More pix of both types in logs 15/06 , 9/07 and 12/07.
It seems that our p-c do  have a similarly rolled trumpet, but this only shows when ours are very fully open or in warm sunshine. They don't get much of that when they're in a frame in Aberdeen.... I wonder if your better light is the  difference. The funny little white tip-spots are the same, I see.

Thanks, Maggi, I looked at all your pictures earlier as I remembered last year they seemed different from mine.  Yours don't seem to have the rolled corolla at all.  Mine have it all the time, doesn't seem to depend on light, warmth or maturity of flower.  Maybe mine is a funny one.
Better light??  My bulb house???         (I need one of those rolling about laughing gifs here)   

[Roma]

I didn't realise Narcissus 'Rip van Winkle' was that old.  I have it flowering in two pots in my frame at the moment.  I think one lot was bought in Tesco a few years ago.  The old variety Narcissus 'Van Sion' (or is it 'Telamonius Plenus' ?) often has green  or greenish flowers but I don't know if this is consistent.  The flowers on my own bulbs are usually yellow. The photo was taken about a month ago.  I should really take some more now they are further on.  

[Maggi Young]

Are you suffering from West Midland Murk, then, Diane?
Ours are quite tall, chunky flowers with trumpets that do roll, perhaps not as tightly as yours... will keep a close eye on them in the next while to see what they do and when!
I suppose these things are as variable as everything else?  Must  check the original source of ours tomorrow too.

[Maggi Young]

I didn't realise Narcissus 'Rip van Winkle' was that old.  

It's all that good sleep that keeps him going, Roma 

 P.S. 'Van Sion' or 'Telemonius plenus' is known from before 1620 !!! Now that's is pretty old!
 Interesting that DaffSeek page shows condsdierable variation in forms of this venerable oldie.....
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Telamonius%20Plenus&lastpage=1&which=hist1

[Diane Clement]

Are you suffering from West Midland Murk, then, Diane? 

We "suffer" from a north-facing garden, with the house to the south, trees all round the east and west and a wall on the north
But it does mean I can grow lots of woodsy things 

[Maggi Young]

The WHOLE GARDEN was full of rare plants that you might never have seen before, mostly old "heritage" varieties.  But Rip van Winkel must be pointing me in the right direction. 

Are there any virescent narcissi in cultivation?  I had never seen a green one before this; one reason why I found it so striking.   

The DaffSeek page says: " with margins tinged green, separated"  which ties in with what I've seen.
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Rip%20van%20Winkle&lastpage=1


 Most greenish narcissus are those with viridiflorus blood, I think. Not many real "daff" types green.
Janis Ruksans has/had a Section2 large cup with  perianth wwg ( whit white green)  corona gww ( green white white) . 

[Alan_b]

Thanks, Maggie, that's really helpful.  I know the description for Rip van Winkle mentions green tinged margins but none of the actual pictures show anything like the amount of green that the daffodil I saw had.  It would hardly be suprising if the older varieties had not managed to produce some interesting variants over the years so maybe I saw a selected extra-green variant of Rip van Winkle?

Does anybody specialise in older narcissi, say pre 20th century?  I prefer the older forms.

[ashley]

Interesting that DaffSeek page shows condsdierable variation in forms of this venerable oldie.....
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Telamonius%20Plenus&lastpage=1&which=hist1

Thanks for that link showing the range of forms Maggi.  Previous pictures of Van Sion I'd seen didn't match the forms common here in hedgerows and around old gardens or farmhouses.  The second pic top left is what we usually have here, and especially when peeping out among new growth in a hedgerow it can look lovely, even elegant. 

However gourmand pheasants passing through the garden sample narcissus petals as they go, creating 'unique' new forms all the time  

[BULBISSIME]

I don't have N. rupicola but it really look's like N. assoanus except the foliage wich I found a bit large...