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Author Topic: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question  (Read 101670 times)

Martin Baxendale

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2008, 11:20:34 PM »
Good point, Anne. I obviously hadn't thought it through. I originally understood that taking the top off the bulb was to create a nice flat surface for cutting down onto, but someone once said to me that it also helped stimulate bulb formation, though I can't now recall who it was. When I think about it, you don't cut the tops off lily scales but they still make bulbils, so it shouldn't be necessary, at least in a dormant bulb - though perhaps trying chopping a bulb while in growth might be slightly different, if the leaves and flower stem are in full growth and creating an apical dominance? Dunno.

I too for the first time this year popped the bulb tops in the bags with the chips, and got a lot of small bulbils on them. Have potted some separately to see how they develop compared to the bulbils from the chips. Will post re. the results later if and when they make top growth.

Martin Baxendale, Gloucestershire, UK.

Maggi Young

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2008, 11:22:22 PM »
I agree, Anne it does seem unlikely, but, it does work!

Works with some other bulby things too, I think.  :-\

John, as to chipping and chopping snowdrops ....(not that we do that)  We do such things to narcissus in June but there is no root growth at all on them when it is done. I would worry that chipping when the root growth is beginning would be too much of a "shock" to the bulb...... what do others think?
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rob krejzl

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2008, 11:39:50 PM »
Quote
When I think about it, you don't cut the tops off lily scales but they still make bulbils,

I have seen recommendations to cut lily scales in two to maximise bulbil production, but I also understand that one snaps such a scale off as close to the base plate as possible to ensure the sharpest concentration gradient of hormones and thus speed up bulbil production.
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Martin Baxendale

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2008, 11:52:03 PM »
I have seen recommendations to cut lily scales in two to maximise bulbil production, but I also understand that one snaps such a scale off as close to the base plate as possible to ensure the sharpest concentration gradient of hormones and thus speed up bulbil production.

That could explain why the bulbils on the tops of the snowdrop bulbs tend to be much smaller than the bulbils on the chips - higher concentrations of the requisite chemical signals for bulbils formation close to the basal plate are likely to induce faster development of the bulbils than if they form higher up the scale. Bulbils that form halfway up lily scales tend to be much smaller than those at the base, and I've noticed the same thing when the occasional bulbils has formed halfway up a snowdrop chip as well as a larger one at the base.
Martin Baxendale, Gloucestershire, UK.

johnw

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2008, 12:05:08 AM »
I agree, Anne it does seem unlikely, but, it does work!

Works with some other bulby things too, I think.  :-\

John, as to chipping and chopping snowdrops ....(not that we do that)  We do such things to narcissus in June but there is no root growth at all on them when it is done. I would worry that chipping when the root growth is beginning would be too much of a "shock" to the bulb...... what do others think?

Maggi  - I have revised my note. I meant to say"chip in June so the bulbils night be severed in autumn just when mothers are beginning to root. Hence they would be on the usual time cycle for growth."

Does this make sense?

johnw
John in coastal Nova Scotia

Martin Baxendale

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2008, 12:18:48 AM »
Maggi  - I have revised my note. I meant to say"chip in June so the bulbils night be severed in autumn just when mothers are beginning to root. Hence they would be on the usual time cycle for growth."

Does this make sense?

johnw

That timing is about right, except that you say the bulbs would be 'severed' in autumn. When potting up, the bulbils should be left attached to the scales, not severed from them, as the old bulb scales still contain plenty of food reserves to help the new bulbils develop.
Martin Baxendale, Gloucestershire, UK.

Brian Ellis

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2008, 09:18:06 AM »
Whoops missed all this last night - not a night bird like you lot!!  As Martin says John timing is about right, although if your weather is like ours this year you could probably start mid-May.  It is best done when the bulb has died down and is 'resting' - poor thing, what a disturbance :o
Brian Ellis, Brooke, Norfolk UK. altitude 30m Mintemp -8C

annew

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2008, 09:21:52 AM »
I'd not meant to imply that the cut off bulb tops wouldn't sprout bulbils - I've been doing this for the last 2 seasons since being tipped off by a snowdrop expert, with some success, only that doing so wouldn't induce the bottom half of the bulb to produce more. As Martin says, it is removal of apical dominance that stimulates side shoot production, and in the case of bulbs the apex isn't at the end of the leaves but deep in the bulb. Which starts another train of thought - where is the growing point in a corm eg crocus?
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Diane Whitehead

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2008, 07:25:40 PM »
A group of us had a chipping party last May.  Everyone followed instructions,
except for me.  I thought it likely that sterilizing with alcohol would be
sufficient, so I did not use a fungicide. 

Mine started rotting in the summer.  Everyone else had success, and their
chips are now potted and putting up leaves.
Diane Whitehead        Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

Brian Ellis

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2008, 07:29:00 PM »
Point taken Anne, I hadn't read your post carefully enough, sorry :-*
Brian Ellis, Brooke, Norfolk UK. altitude 30m Mintemp -8C

Hagen Engelmann

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2008, 08:12:00 PM »
Thank you Diane, this information is is real helpfull.
Hagen Engelmann Brandenburg/Germany (80m) http://www.engelmannii.de]

Tony Willis

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2008, 08:14:02 PM »
Perhaps we should not be surprised that the cut of tops produce bulbils,because my understanding is that the scales are in fact only fore-shortened leaves. Whilst I have no scientific knowledge of how it works, in many other plants such as for instance gesneriads and begonias cutting up the leaves and rooting the pieces is the accepted method of propagation. New plantlets are produced at the cut surfaces. I did in fact see many years ago a demonstration where the corolla of a narcisssus had been induced to root although  it did not make any further growth.
Chorley, Lancashire zone 8b

Anthony Darby

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2008, 08:25:41 PM »
Perhaps we should not be surprised that the cut of tops produce bulbils,because my understanding is that the scales are in fact only fore-shortened leaves.

Would these be taken as short cuts to more bulbs? ;)
Anthony Darby, Auckland, New Zealand.
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johnw

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2008, 08:46:32 PM »
Martin et al: Thanks for this, I would have severed the bulbils.  How exactly does one treat the top if deciding to use it as well?  I assume just add the vermiculite whole.

johnw
John in coastal Nova Scotia

Brian Ellis

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Re: Chipping/Twin-scaling type question
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2008, 10:07:58 PM »
John I just put it in whole, but it in some of them the 'rings' have separated and this gives the bulbils more room to develop. 
Brian Ellis, Brooke, Norfolk UK. altitude 30m Mintemp -8C

 


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