TRILLIUM

[art600]

Having been fortunate to obtain seeds from the surplus SRGC, I would like to maximise my chances of germination.  Your suggestions please as I have not grown Trillium before - never had a suitable place in the garden until I moved.

[Diane Whitehead]

Trilliums vary in their germination requirements, depending upon their origin.
Ones native to the Pacific coast of North America or from Asia germinate
much more easily than ones from the Eastern part of North America.

Which species did you receive?

[Maggi Young]

Diane, I believe you have made a most interesting find of an article about Erythronium germination, would you care to post those details on the SRGC forum, too, please?

[Diane Whitehead]

Sure thing, Maggi.  I will start a new subject, Erythronium.

[art600]

Diane
I received seeds of the following:

giganteum, cuneatum, erectum, kurabayashii, ovatum hibbersonii, albidum, chloropetalum.

Your help greatly appreciated

Arthur

[Diane Whitehead]

Arthur,

First off, let me wish you luck.

You have two species from Eastern North America - cuneatum and erectum
and the rest are from the West:  albidum is from southern Oregon, chloropetalum, chloropetalum giganteum, and kurabayashi are from northern California, and ovatum hibbersonii is a tiny plant from a restricted area on the west coast of Vancouver Island.

Trillium germination is the subject of much experimentation and debate. There is general agreement that the seeds should be sown when they are fresh, which means in summer, and that drying them cuts down their chance of germination. Some people report never having germination from seedex seeds except for T. rivale (which you don't have).  However, there is always the chance that the seeds were stored in a manner that retained some moisture.

I have checked my records and I have never tried to germinate seeds from an exchange. I have always sown fresh seeds, and even so, I have had minimal success with Eastern U.S. seeds, and not with the ones you have.  Ones from 1995 that did germinate did so 2 1/2 years after sowing, and have not yet achieved flowering size. Maybe this year.

Western species all germinate for me - anytime from two to six months from sowing, and flower four or five years later.  I have an advantage here, though, as I live in trillium country, and some were growing naturally on my property.

I am trying seeds of four Eastern species this year, which I received in December, and am trying to duplicate what happens in nature. I sowed them in small ziplock plastic bags with damp soilless mix, which is how I germinate all large seeds. I am keeping them warm (about 20C daytime, lower at night) for a few months and then will put them in the fridge, as by then the outside temperature will be too warm for the chilling they will need. I can see them through the side of the bags, and they have plumped up and look brand new.

Experimenters have found that gibberellins are necessary for germination of some species.  They use a powder, GA-3.  As natural woodland soil or leafmould contains gibberellins, I think I will move half of each lot into leafmould to see how that compares with the soilless mix.  Report due: July 2009!

Carl Denton has a National Collection in Yorkshire, and a website:
 http://www.trilliums.co.uk/
In the U.S., Harold Holmes maintains a large website and is constantly experimenting.
 http://trilliumresearch.org/

[art600]

Diane
Many thanks for the info - I must have known when I asked for advice that it would be difficult.

I will resist the temptationh to throw 'dead' pots on the garden, although this has been very successful with many other genus.

Arthur

[Diane Whitehead]

Well, you are more successful with "dead" pots than I.  I used to keep the names of all the ungerminated seedpots I emptied in the garden, but nothing ever came up.  I continue to dump in one or two special spots, but I don't waste time saving names.

One advantage of the little ziplocks is that seeds can be checked easily.  I just dug up some woodland soil for putting half of each lot of Eastern US trillium seed in, and emptied out my ziplocks to divvy up the seeds.  I sowed 10 seeds of each species on December 24.  Ten good-looking plump seeds remain for two of the species, one had only seven seeds left, and every seed of pusillum had already rotted.  It's good to know.  If I had had them in a pot, I would have been maintaining it uselessly for the next three years.

Of course, if I had had them in pots, there would have been a little forest growing in them by next year - red cedar and grand fir trees, and several kinds of ferns, despite always sowing into sterile mix. 

These are the other reasons I use the ziplocks:  I can keep hundreds in a small space, I can move them easily to suit their requirements:  into a corner of the fridge for chilling, into a biscuit tin for dark, into and out of the fridge daily for alternating temperatures (this effort usually lasts a much shorter time than originally intended).

[art600]

Diane
Ian Young recommended them for soaking seeds overnight e.g. Erythroniums.  I was fortunate I purchased some cheaply for another purpose and now have a plentiful supply to follow your advice.

Arthur

[Greenmanplants]

Arthur,
You should still have success with seeds from the exchange.  However it may be delayed.

On the whole, Western seed, Kurabayshii and the like germinates in the first spring after sowing when sown fresh.  If allowed to dry, the seed should be soaked(24hrs) then sown as normal(I surface sow in deep pots in a gritty mixture and cover with 1/4" grit) and placed outside to get the weather....Western seed doesn't need stratification, Eastern does.   

As your seed has been dry there is a high chance of having delayed germination, in which case I would recommend to place your moistened seed pots inside sealed plastic bags, (this will retain moisture over the summer), and place the pots outside where they can remain for 15 months until germination in spring 2008.

As I mentioned, fresh western seed tends to give 100% germination in the first year, Eastern seed tends to only germinate with me after a hard winter, I will sometimes have 3 years seed germinate together, including those just sown the summer before, so good luck with them.

After germination grow them on in pots, until their second year, the little strap leaves will develop into little aces of spades leaves, pot on or plant out while in full growth, the roots should already be 3-4" long.

Cheers

John H 

[art600]

John H

Thank you for the encouragement.  I hope I have enough years left to see some flower.

Regards

Arthur

[Maggi Young]

Arthur, remember the adage of Harold Esslemont, the great Scottish grower who was still planting fritillaria seed in his eighties, with little prospect of a flower for seven or so years: "where there's seed there's hope!" He was 93 when he died, interested in plants to the end!

[David Pilling]

The stories about how long seeds take to germinate keep bringing to mind a recent episode of a Year at Kew, where they found some 200 year old seeds amongst someones papers in the national archive. It was interesting to see the technology professionals used to germinate them. The seed packets from 200 years ago seemed to use the same origami technique as one can find described on the web today.

The video clip is at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/gardening/tv_and_radio/kew_series3_episode3?size=16x9&bgc=AFD8D0&nbram=1&bbram=1

[chris]

in 2000 I sow Trillium kurabayashii in pots last year I planted them out, here is the result together with Trillium rivale I bought two years ago and hold in pot

[Diane Whitehead]

I reported that I had sown some Eastern U.S. trilliums and was keeping them warm in my kitchen.
They had been collected in the summer, kept in the fridge by the seed exchange director,
then mailed to me.  They got lost in the mail somewhere and arrived just before Christmas.
If we hadn't been having such a horrible cold stormy winter, I would have sown them and put
them out in the cold like I usually do (with almost no success).  Instead, I left them in the kitchen,
and they have germinated.

They are three species that I have never tried before:  discolor, underwoodii, and vaseyi.