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Author Topic: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata  (Read 5219 times)

Lesmona

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Hello,

I am looking for plants or seeds of:

Trollius lilacinus
Cremanthodium brunneopilosum
Saussurea involucrata

does anyone have an idea where i can buy these species?

Thank you.

Regards,
Ole

Steve Garvie

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2018, 11:16:40 PM »
Hi Ole,

Vojtech Holubec currently offers Trollius lilacinus seed in his new seed list. Getting seed to germinate is problematic (even with gibberellic acid) and growing it on is very difficult. Tr. komarovii/Hegemone micrantha is also on the list and is slightly easier to grow.

Vojtech also lists some Saussurea including the spectacular gossypiphora (?growable in lowland gardens) but not involucrata.

Cremanthodium brunneopilosum is occasionally available on the SRGC seed exchange (last time was 2016/17 list). I have grown Cr. lineare which looks fairly similar but I think there are smaller species available that are more attractive.
Good luck with your search.


Cremanthodium lineare


Cremanthodium rhodocephalum

WILDLIFE PHOTOSTREAM: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rainbirder/


Steve
West Fife, Scotland.

Leucogenes

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2018, 11:34:19 AM »
Unimaginably beautiful plants. ..Steve. My deepest respect.

Cremanthodium Seeds were available last year at http://www.chinesealpines.com.
 Unfortunately I did not order any. The new catalogue will be published at the end of November.

I lie in wait.

Thomas

« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 03:32:01 PM by Leucogenes »

Lesmona

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2018, 10:05:29 PM »
Hi Ole,

Vojtech Holubec currently offers Trollius lilacinus seed in his new seed list. Getting seed to germinate is problematic (even with gibberellic acid) and growing it on is very difficult. Tr. komarovii/Hegemone micrantha is also on the list and is slightly easier to grow.

Vojtech also lists some Saussurea including the spectacular gossypiphora (?growable in lowland gardens) but not involucrata.

Cremanthodium brunneopilosum is occasionally available on the SRGC seed exchange (last time was 2016/17 list). I have grown Cr. lineare which looks fairly similar but I think there are smaller species available that are more attractive.
Good luck with your search.


Cremanthodium lineare


Cremanthodium rhodocephalum



Hi Steve,

thank you for your answer. Your plant are stunning! I have sown Cremanthodium last year. I know the germination is very problematic. What do you do that they germinate?

Ole

Steve Garvie

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2018, 10:45:50 PM »
Hi Ole,

Cremanthodium germinate best from fresh seed. When sown in the Autumn and exposed to winter cold germination occurs with rising Spring temperatures.

Bjørnar Olsen and August Wu offer a good range of Cremanthodium. Last year they offered seed of Saussurea involucrata, Trollius lilacinus and 5 different collections of Cremanthodium.
Here is their website:  http://chinesealpines.com
WILDLIFE PHOTOSTREAM: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rainbirder/


Steve
West Fife, Scotland.

Lesmona

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2018, 03:34:27 PM »
Hi Ole,

Cremanthodium germinate best from fresh seed. When sown in the Autumn and exposed to winter cold germination occurs with rising Spring temperatures.

Bjørnar Olsen and August Wu offer a good range of Cremanthodium. Last year they offered seed of Saussurea involucrata, Trollius lilacinus and 5 different collections of Cremanthodium.
Here is their website:  http://chinesealpines.com

Hi Steve,

thank you for the tip. I visited chinesealpines.com, there are given informations like W/O-7114, W/O-7113, W/O-7115. Is that the location or altitude? What is the difference between seeds of the same species from W/O-7113 and W/O-7115? Do the plants looks different or does it have a different frost hardness??

Ole

arisaema

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2018, 03:54:03 PM »
What is the difference between seeds of the same species from W/O-7113 and W/O-7115? Do the plants looks different or does it have a different frost hardness??

Since I'm the O in W/O I guess I can answer... ;) Those numbers are just collection numbers, click on the name and you'll get more information about locations and altitudes. The pictures of C. rhodocephalum are from Xiaoxueshan, I haven't seen those on Daxueshan in flower but I highly doubt there's much difference among them. At 4000m+ altitude they will be bone hardy, I would be more worried about heat tolerance.

We have Trollius lilacinus (as Hegemone lilacina) and Saussurea involucrata listed this year as well, the seeds are bought (rather expensively) from a collector in Xinjiang, but guaranteed true to name.
Balcony gardener in Chengdu, Sichuan, USDA zone 9
ChineseAlpines.com - Wild collected seeds and cultivated bulbs from China

Lesmona

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2018, 10:38:01 PM »
Since I'm the O in W/O I guess I can answer... ;) Those numbers are just collection numbers, click on the name and you'll get more information about locations and altitudes. The pictures of C. rhodocephalum are from Xiaoxueshan, I haven't seen those on Daxueshan in flower but I highly doubt there's much difference among them. At 4000m+ altitude they will be bone hardy, I would be more worried about heat tolerance.

We have Trollius lilacinus (as Hegemone lilacina) and Saussurea involucrata listed this year as well, the seeds are bought (rather expensively) from a collector in Xinjiang, but guaranteed true to name.

Hi Arisaema, thanks for the informations. Do you have plants of of Saussurea involucrata and Trollius lilacinus too?

Ole

arisaema

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2018, 02:28:10 AM »
Hi Arisaema, thanks for the informations. Do you have plants of of Saussurea involucrata and Trollius lilacinus too?

Only seeds, even if we had a supplier of cultivated stock (we don't), these just wouldn't do well bare-rooted and shipped across two continents...
Balcony gardener in Chengdu, Sichuan, USDA zone 9
ChineseAlpines.com - Wild collected seeds and cultivated bulbs from China

Steve Garvie

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2018, 08:50:55 AM »
Hi Bjørnar,
Can I ask you about the difference between your collected Lilium georgei and Yijia Wang’s Lilium saccatum? Are these one and the same species or do you think they are different? On the map the collection sites appear to be over 1800km apart by road (with part of North-east India and Myanmar in between as the Raven flies).

Yijia’s Tibetan collection of “SACCATUM?/PARADOXUM?” looks interesting. Is there any further info on this?

Is there any prospect of more L. yapingense seed in the future?

Sorry for the inquisition!  ;)
WILDLIFE PHOTOSTREAM: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rainbirder/


Steve
West Fife, Scotland.

Lesmona

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2018, 10:37:32 AM »
Only seeds, even if we had a supplier of cultivated stock (we don't), these just wouldn't do well bare-rooted and shipped across two continents...

Hi Bjørnar,

what is the best soil for cultivating plants from the Himalaya? I have read the soil is mineral without organic components. I use a mineral soil mix of Perlite, Sand, Vermiculite, Diatomite, Lavalit, Brick dust, Shale slate, Quartz sand, Pumice, betonite, diatomaceous earth, big and small stones and mykorrhiza. I have tested one Rheum nobile plant in compost and peat, it died. My other plant life good in the mineral mix but Meconopsis, Primulas etc. growing puny. A fertilizer with nitrograin kills the plants (maybe I gave to much). Should I fertilize or will mykorrhiza nourish my plants?

My Rheum nobile is 3 years old now. I cool my plants in the summer with ice near the roods. But I must protect them from fungal diseases with a fungicide.

I would be glad for tips.

Ole

arisaema

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2018, 11:18:37 AM »

Can I ask you about the difference between your collected Lilium georgei and Yijia Wang’s Lilium saccatum? Are these one and the same species or do you think they are different?

I honestly don't know, I've never seen L. saccatum. My guess would be that they are one and the same, but obviously distinctly different from L. souliei. Gaoligongshan and Medog do share a lot of the same flora, and it's still among the most inaccessible and least explored areas left in this world.

Quote
Yijia’s Tibetan collection of “SACCATUM?/PARADOXUM?” looks interesting. Is there any further info on this?

There are more pictures on his web page. It's a collection from somewhere between Linzhi and Motou/Medog, so it would be from within the range of both species.

Quote
Is there any prospect of more L. yapingense seed in the future?

August will try getting the permits for next autumn, they've really tightened up access to the border areas over the last couple of years, it used to be pretty porous.
Balcony gardener in Chengdu, Sichuan, USDA zone 9
ChineseAlpines.com - Wild collected seeds and cultivated bulbs from China

arisaema

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2018, 11:32:04 AM »
what is the best soil for cultivating plants from the Himalaya?

Roughly speaking, you come across three types of soil - the typical clayey, red loam Yunnan is famous for; a humus based, completely organic soil (either peat or leaf mold); and rotten slate/fine limestone gravel. Rheum nobile is a scree plant, I've seen it growing in rotten slate, which holds moisture really well but also offers perfect drainage.

Most, but not all, Meconopsis and Primula grow in peaty soils, and even the scree species seem to enjoy a well-drained, peaty mix as long as they are allowed to dry out over winter. In a peaty mix you also won't have to worry too much about using fertilizer, I used to use Osmocote out of laziness.
Balcony gardener in Chengdu, Sichuan, USDA zone 9
ChineseAlpines.com - Wild collected seeds and cultivated bulbs from China

Leucogenes

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2018, 12:35:02 PM »
Roughly speaking, you come across three types of soil - the typical clayey, red loam Yunnan is famous for; a humus based, completely organic soil (either peat or leaf mold); and rotten slate/fine limestone gravel. Rheum nobile is a scree plant, I've seen it growing in rotten slate, which holds moisture really well but also offers perfect drainage.

Most, but not all, Meconopsis and Primula grow in peaty soils, and even the scree species seem to enjoy a well-drained, peaty mix as long as they are allowed to dry out over winter. In a peaty mix you also won't have to worry too much about using fertilizer, I used to use Osmocote out of laziness.


I had the same question... but Ole was faster than me.😊

Many thanks for helpful and detailed information.

Thomas

Lesmona

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Re: Trollius lilacinus, Cremanthodium brunneopilosum, Saussurea involucrata
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2018, 09:26:54 PM »
Roughly speaking, you come across three types of soil - the typical clayey, red loam Yunnan is famous for; a humus based, completely organic soil (either peat or leaf mold); and rotten slate/fine limestone gravel. Rheum nobile is a scree plant, I've seen it growing in rotten slate, which holds moisture really well but also offers perfect drainage.

Most, but not all, Meconopsis and Primula grow in peaty soils, and even the scree species seem to enjoy a well-drained, peaty mix as long as they are allowed to dry out over winter. In a peaty mix you also won't have to worry too much about using fertilizer, I used to use Osmocote out of laziness.

Thanks for the information. I'm surprised! I did not expect them to grow in peaty soil, I only see rocks and gravel in photos. Peaty soil comes from the moor, how can there be peat without a moor? Why is the clay red, does it contain iron?

Ole


 


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