Author Topic: Fritillaria 2018 (Read 24032 times)

ruweiss · « **Reply #30 on:** March 13, 2018, 09:29:32 PM »

Got this small (6 cm) plant from Japan without a name.
Can one of the experts please help me with the name?

colin e · « **Reply #31 on:** March 14, 2018, 09:07:18 AM »

Hi Steve,
Yes I would go with Fritillaria bucharica for your “Rhinopetalum sp. new location”. It looks very similar to one I have labelled as Fritillaria bucharica Hodji-obi-garan. I have put a picture of a flower of this below which shows the petal shape to be very similar. This does bring up an issue that I also have if you have a large collection of Fritillaria: keeping things pure is not easy, as they can use pollen from something you do not want them to transferred by a wild pollinator. An example of this is shown in the second picture which came to me as Rhinopetalum pink sp but as you can see it is just a Fritillaria bucharica. The seed parent may have been a pinkish bucharica or something different but the pollen parent must have been a dominant white bucharica. So you end up with something that may have something different in it but looks just like a bucharica.

Colin

colin e · « **Reply #32 on:** March 14, 2018, 09:09:32 AM »

I was relieved when this Fritillaria rixii flowered because it is a form from Evia and I have lost the parents so if this pot of seedlings did not come true I would not have it. Another yellow Fritillaria is this Fritillaria sibthorpiana subsp enginii; as well as having the two leaves at the base instead of one I find it is shorter in overall height than my Fritillaria sibthorpiana. The last of my Fritillaria karelinii x gibbosa sibling cross back crossed onto one of its parents is flowering; it is just a nice picture. I have also put a picture of the pot of Fritillaria aff pinardii (fleischeriana) which shows the variation in flower colour. This is the 2012 sowing. The pot sown in 2013 from a different batch of seed is only just starting to flower. Finally a plant grown from seed labelled as Fritillaria zagrica but which has turned out to be a Fritillaria michailovskyi with a nice short growing habit.
Thanks Stefan, Chris and Steve for the compliment; I do try but do not always get it right.

Colin

sokol · « **Reply #33 on:** March 14, 2018, 09:25:00 AM »

Quote from: colin e on March 14, 2018, 09:09:32 AM

I was relieved when this Fritillaria rixii flowered because it is a form from Evia and I have lost the parents so if this pot of seedlings did not come true I would not have it.

Colin, has your Frit. rixii narrow leaves evenly spread along the stem? My pictures of plants show this feature contrary to the broader leaves of Frit. euboeica. Is there any difference in the flowers between both?
Greek botanists did not accept Frit. rixii in a discussion on Facebook last week. They consider all as Frit. euboeica.

Steve Garvie · « **Reply #34 on:** March 14, 2018, 09:18:21 PM »

Rudi, I think your Japanese Frit might be Fritillaria shikokiana. If it is this species it should have blueish anthers (not visible in your image). My Fritillaria shikokiana is currently in flower -I will try to get an image of it over the next few days.

Colin, many thanks for your opinion on my “Rhinopetalum sp. New Location”. I have over time acquired a few “Rhinopetalum sp.” which on flowering turned out to be bucharica or stenanthera but, just occasionally, something out of the ordinary turns up. Most of these I have currently labelled as karelinii or aff. karelinii but it would be good to get the opinion of others. I have taken some images in the last few days and will post them.

Steve Garvie · « **Reply #35 on:** March 15, 2018, 09:31:58 AM »

Below are some of the various forms of karelinii and ”aff. karelinii” that I grow. I have a few smaller plants that haven’t yet flowered including one from China. I also have a white form of “aff. karelinii” from Baisun-tau, Uzbekistan which in looks would seem to sit somewhere between karelinii and bucharica -unfortunately this had already flowered before I got a chance to photograph it but here is a link to an image on Janis’s current catalogue: http://rarebulbs.lv/index.php/en/catalogue/product/view/1/7506

Fritillaria karelinii “New Location 1”

Fritillaria karelinii ex Turkmenistan

Fritillaria karelinii ex Uzbekistan

Fritillaria karelinii ex Uzbekistan close-up of flower.

Fritillaria karelinii pale form that was in flower some weeks ago.

Fritillaria aff. karelinii

Maggi Young · « **Reply #36 on:** March 16, 2018, 01:15:02 PM »

New link on Fritillaria Icones site - Important addition to the taxonomy of Chinese Fritillaria

Complete chloroplast genome of seven Fritillaria species, variable DNA markers identification and phylogenetic relationships within the genus

Yan LI1,2, Zhirong ZHANG3, Junbo YANG3, Guanghui LV1,2
PLoS ONE 13(3): (2018)

http://www.fritillariaicones.com/info/news/news_2018/Li_et_al_2018.html

colin e · « **Reply #37 on:** March 17, 2018, 09:39:18 AM »

Stefan, sorry not to get back to you sooner; I currently only have one Fritillaria euboeica flowering in a pot of seedlings. Picture below to show the leaves. What I often do to show differences in leaves is divide the width measurement into the length measurement of leaves to give a ratio figure. What I get for my Fritillaria euboeica is 1 in 3.57 for the basal leaves, but as you can see in the picture the leaves above these look narrower and these give 1 in 10.2. The Fritillaria rixii Evia 700-800m (picture below) is 1 in 6.5 so this rixii has narrower basal leaves than the euboeica but the leaves above them look wider but gave 1 in 10, so similar. I also have a rixii grown from Gothenburg seed. These gave a figure of 1 in 6.8 for basal leaves but again the leaves above these look wider than my euboeica but they actually gave a 1 in 14.6 figure. The width of all the upper leaves was actually the same at 5mm it was only the difference in length that gave the different figures. The width of my Fritillaria euboeica basal leaves was 14 mm and the Fritillaria rixii came in at 10 and 11 mm. The leaf spacing looks fairly even on all of them. Hope this answers you question.

Colin

ruweiss · « **Reply #38 on:** March 17, 2018, 10:05:30 PM »

Quote from: Steve Garvie on March 14, 2018, 09:18:21 PM

Rudi, I think your Japanese Frit might be Fritillaria shikokiana. If it is this species it should have blueish anthers (not visible in your image). My Fritillaria shikokiana is currently in flower -I will try to get an image of it over the next few days.
Steve, thank you for your identification. You are right with Frit. shikokiana, my plant has also blueish anthers.

Colin, many thanks for your opinion on my “Rhinopetalum sp. New Location”. I have over time acquired a few “Rhinopetalum sp.” which on flowering turned out to be bucharica or stenanthera but, just occasionally, something out of the ordinary turns up. Most of these I have currently labelled as karelinii or aff. karelinii but it would be good to get the opinion of others. I have taken some images in the last few days and will post them.

Yann · « **Reply #39 on:** March 18, 2018, 06:20:27 PM »

Fritillaria erhartii

I grow very few of this genius, after reading Paul Cumbleton's articles i tried to grow my bulbs into seramis.
It's success after several years of failure.

annew · « **Reply #40 on:** March 18, 2018, 06:51:33 PM »

While congratulating myself on actually achieving some flowers on my Fritillaria davidii (I always send the biggest bulbs out to customers), I then noticed that the leaves look dreadful. Are they supposed to do that?

sokol · « **Reply #41 on:** March 19, 2018, 07:26:28 AM »

Quote from: colin e on March 17, 2018, 09:39:18 AM

Stefan, sorry not to get back to you sooner; I currently only have one Fritillaria euboeica flowering in a pot of seedlings. Picture below to show the leaves. What I often do to show differences in leaves is divide the width measurement into the length measurement of leaves to give a ratio figure. What I get for my Fritillaria euboeica is 1 in 3.57 for the basal leaves, but as you can see in the picture the leaves above these look narrower and these give 1 in 10.2. The Fritillaria rixii Evia 700-800m (picture below) is 1 in 6.5 so this rixii has narrower basal leaves than the euboeica but the leaves above them look wider but gave 1 in 10, so similar. I also have a rixii grown from Gothenburg seed. These gave a figure of 1 in 6.8 for basal leaves but again the leaves above these look wider than my euboeica but they actually gave a 1 in 14.6 figure. The width of all the upper leaves was actually the same at 5mm it was only the difference in length that gave the different figures. The width of my Fritillaria euboeica basal leaves was 14 mm and the Fritillaria rixii came in at 10 and 11 mm. The leaf spacing looks fairly even on all of them. Hope this answers you question.

Colin

Thanks Colin for your detailled explanation! I would conclude that is not necessary to seperate Fritillaria rixii from Fritillaria euboeica based on leaves.

All Fritillaria euboeica that I have seen in the wild grew in sunny habitat, whilst Fritillaria rixii mostly in shadier places. Therefore the differences in leave measure were much more distinct than yours.

What was the reason to seperate Fritillaria rixii from Fritillaria euboeica? I don't have the description of it. I see a bit different colour of nectaries at Fritillaria Icones but it is just a single plant of each. I see also slightly different colours in my own pictures.

Fritillaria euboeica from Pixaria: