Rhodophiala 2017

[johnw]

Like clockwork in late June, Rhodphiala montana.

johnw - 19c & sunny

[ollie]

I grow this and R bakeri here in Melbourne, Australia but struggle to tell the difference

[Martin Sheader]

I understand that the taxonomy of Rhodophiala is under inverstigation at the moment and there is quite a lot of confusion and misidentification in cultivation.
Where we have seen R. montana in the wild in Argentina and Chile it is always yellow. Michail Belov (of Chileflora) on his website confirms this, but say that it may be pinkish or orange tinted when growing with R. rhodolirion - he suggests that these other colours may be hybrids.
Rhodophiala montana has smallish pale yellow flowers on relatively tall stems. The leaves die down at or just after flowering.
 

[hamparstum]

Hi Martin, Rhodophiala elwesii grows wild in my property at close to 900 mts. asl. It flowers around the end of october and appears as isolated individuals dotting a Stipa tenuis grassy stand. It looks very similar to that of your picture. It is completely yellow-orange. It sets seeds copiously. I just read ( at Pacific Bulb society Wiki) that it could be sown immediately for best results. Did your R.montana grow from seed?. My intent in relocating the very deep bulbs has proved up to now  fruitless. For reasons that I don't understand they seem to resent transplant even when dormant. The fairly large bulbs may have their necks as deep as 30 cm. and sometimes more. The soil is a very sandy skeletal deep soil laid over a glacial moraine with very quick draining capacity. This season I'll try to collect seeds and grow them in pots. Deep long pots I suppose , filled with the soil described. I guess that there are more tricks to be learned about this otherwise very lovely garden worthy amaryllid.
Arturo

[johnw]

The story of this Rhodophiala was related long ago on this forum.  It was originally received as Hippeastrum elwesii ex Goteborg via Harry Jans 21 years ago.  The forum identified it as a Rhodophiala (elwesii).  Then it was re-identified as R. araucana.  Finally Alberto Castillo gave the most compelling argument for R. montana.

johnw - 20.2c & sunny

[hamparstum]

Thank you John for your explanation. PBS Wiki presents the two as distinct species. But from what it looks your flowers as very similar with those growing here. May I ask if you started from bulbs or seeds?

[Martin Sheader]

Arturo, glad to here you are growing R. elwesii. My images of R. montanaare from the wild where it grows on mountain slopes in northern Argentine Patagonia, and also in Chile - we saw it growing in the Maule Valley earlier this year. They grow as small clumps of bulbs, with usually 1-3 tall flower stems per clump. R. elwesii is more of a steppe plant, growing to the immediate east of the Andes in northern Argentine Patagonia. Its flowers are yellow, often, though not always, with a purple centre. It often grows as a single bulb - never a large clump, so this would tie in with yours. Flowers are similar to R. montana but larger, and stems usually shorter. As you say, the bulbs are deep and they are also larger then many other rhodophialas. (Image below is from wild)

Rhodophiala montana is featured in A. Hoffmann et al. Plantos Altoandinos en la Flora Silvestre de Chile and in Riedemann et al. Flora Nativa de Chile and both correspond with the images we give for the species in our book. Both give the colour of the flower as yellow with, with narrow spreading tepals, giving a wide open look to the flower.

 Rhodophiala araucana is as you say John, not your plant. It is quite different to any of these with large clumps of bulbs, summer leaf growth, and heads of narrow upright flowers in yellow or orange (see image below from the wild).
Not sure what yours is, but it doesn't seem to have the spreading narrow tepals of R. montana
.


 

[johnw]

Martin - I got the seeds from Harry Jans in 1996 according to my records.  ASfter getting it out of Hippeastrum and into Rhodophiala Harry wrote to me in 2009 saying:

"Hi John,
Nice to hear from you and the succes with the Rhodolphiala.
As you know, I have got some seeds many years ago from the Bot. Gard.
Goteborg (as R. elwesii). I have grown these on to flowering size and did
send you one day some seeds of that particular plant.
Strange that you get different species out of it.
I have no idea how this is possible.
I did not grow other Rhodolphiala at any time.
Since a few years I am not growing it any longer."

As I recall I started the seeds under lights and kept them growing rather well in a plastic bag with the lights on 24 hrs/day.  I kept them there for over a year and then moved them to the cool greenhouse where they've grown ever since.

They flowered in 2004 and perhaps a year or so before that though I can't find any emails referencing flowering or dated photos of flowers before 2004 unless there are slides.  For a time we thought we had yellow flowers and salmon flowers.  That was until we labelled each flower stem only to realize after a few years that all were salmon, perhaps positioning caused some to bloom yellow.  Unfortunately there was a period when I'd send seeds to the Seedex separated by colour, apologies.

john - 22c, sunny with thunder approaching.

[hamparstum]

Martin, my property is on the eastern side of the town of Bariloche, which I assume you passed through when visiting the area. Perhaps you will recall that the western end of the lake N.Huapi is very wet Valdivian forest, while the eastern end is already Patagonian open dry steppe. That's where R.e. is growing naturally here. If you have sites that you have photographed or seen of the other species, R.m. in my side of the Andes I will try to locate wild populations. I wonder if they are interfertile. Actually I can forsee a growing interest in them as soon as garden cultivation becomes sorted out.

[Martin Sheader]

Arturo,
I didn't realise you were from Bariloche. We have only found Rh. montana on mountains slopes and Rh. elwesii on steppe close to the mountains, both further north in Neuquen. Both have flowers that open wide and face outwards when fully open.
The only species we have found on the steppe east of Bariloche and along the road to Pilcaniyeu (RP23) is Rh. mendocina (see images below). This has upright facing yellow, yellow-green or yellow-orange flowers that do not open widely. It often flowers after the leaves have died down. The bulbs are deep down - 30-40cm, and are larger than most of the other rhodophialas. We have photographed them in November. The images below are from Bariloche and Zapala.

[johnw]

Thank you John for your explanation. PBS Wiki presents the two as distinct species. But from what it looks your flowers as very similar with those growing here. May I ask if you started from bulbs or seeds?

Arturo - Bariloche, what an exciting place you live in.  Can you tell us how cold it gets there?  I had a very dwarf Pernettya mucronata from Bariloche and the collector told me it had been to -29c the winter before. She collected seed from plants that were on rises and where snow would not have covered them.

When I started the R. seed a 8cm deep pot was deep enough for the first year and a half but then they were moved with soil somewhat intact to a 12cm deep pot with plenty of pumice.  Once the bulbs grew larger they move without difficulty but the colours are terrible the following year.  No losses though.  You can see from the pix why we thought we had 2 colour forms; th ecolour can be a very clear yellow some years, the pic with multiple flowers shows you how they behave the year after a transplant!

I am growing quite a few other species but they are all painfully slow.  To date only R. advena has flowered and I've crossed the two spp.

A couple of times I grew various Rhodophiala spp. from the Seedex, all were labelled ex B&W.  All turned out to be Habranthus tubispathus. I've avoided them ever since though tried them again recently and some do look like Rhodphiala leaves, I assume they were from a different donor.

john

[hamparstum]

yes John! I'm blessed to live here in Bariloche. Specially to be able to garden here and envision and develop gardens ( in plural) because I fortunately have ample space. I can allow myself to collect and grow certain conifer trees and still have room for smaller plants. I'm trying to expand my collection of the Abies genus, all are foriegn however very beautiful. They all need coldof which we have enough in length but not in extreme intensity. Temperature range is very site specific within the Nahuel Huapi lake basin and can vary considerably throughout the seasons. So is precipitation and ambient humidity. Exactly where I live I couldn't grow Pernettya mucronata. It isn't cold enough. It grows naturally in a much wetter area west from here but also in two distinct habitats. One as an understory low lying bush under a canopy of the evergreen Nothofagus dombeyii ( southern beech) or  in the open under a large granite mountain drop that would send freezing air downwards in a cold convection spot.
Where I live, it drops to -6ºC in late winter. It used to freeze the ground for a few days, years ago. I've been living in this property for almost 30 years and the last 10 years we no longer have frozen ground. We just had standing snow a few days ago, which also has become infrequent. In summer daytime temps rise to a maximum of 30ºC for a few hours just a few days. These spread around the months of february and march. Our growing season is very extended, at least 8 months, however, because of the lack of enough high temperatures a lot of plants from more continental n. hemisphere  temperate areas. ( the question of accumulated heat that is slowly apprearing in horticultural literature).
I'm particularly interested in Rhodophiala and can forsee horticultural use in gardens. They have a very attractive profile in a late spring early summer flowering gap. There's the possibility of growing Rhodophiala bifida which is red and of even larger flowers, that grows in further up east in Buenos Aires and Uruguay. However the wild populations go to areas where winter cold could reach as low as -6ºC which would suggest that they might do well here. At least to try crosses to widen the color palette.
This specific thread is a very good source of stimulus. Thank you very much to all.
Arturo

[johnw]

Getting more flowers and improved seed set by leaving the Rhodophiala montana outdoors this year.  Earwigs are having a field day as are the bees.

johnw - +18c at 23:30/ humidity 98%!

[Hans J]

Hi all ,

I grow since many years some Rhodophiala bifida  ( from different sources )
Some bulbs I have received  from a contact from USA as "Oxblood- lilies ...
My plants stand the whole summer in a dry + hot bulbframe ( without any watering )
I gave them first water on 1.August ...last Sunday I could seed comes up some buds ...today are near all open

Have fun
Hans

[Alberto]

Hans,
WOW, it is breathtaking! WOW