Pleione 2017

[john hodgson]

Does anyone who has some expertise in, or knowledge of the naming of pleiones help me?
There are several steps to this question, so please be patient!
For this question I will use Pleione Leda as my example.
Q1: if someone recreates a hybrid e.g. Leda, from parents identical to the original cross, can the newly created cross still be named Leda?
Q2: Leda is Pln. Krakatoa x Pln. grandiflora
       Krakatoa is Pln. yunnanensis x Pln. forrestii
      natural hybrid Pln. x christianii is also Pln. yunnanensis x Pln. forrestii
So, if Pln. x christianii  is crossed with Pln. grandiflora, does this mean that these hybrids can also be called Leda?
Q3: If a reverse cross of Leda is made (Pln. grandiflora x Pln. Krakatoa) is this still Leda?

I ask these questions because I have real hybrid pleiones that make me ask these sorts of questions.
Any one able to help - I'd really like to know!
Thanks - John

Oh.... and here is my first pleione of 2017

[sjusovare]

Hello John,

Q1 : Yes, the cross can be remake with identical parents, it will keep the same name.

Q2 : I'm not 100% sure on that one, but I don't think so, the main reason behind the different naming for natural hybrids and their man-made counterpart is that in the case of natural hybrids, we are not sure of the lineage or at least not sure of the number of backcrosses there are... So logically, using a natural hybrid as a parent instead of a man-made one (and reverse) would not necessarily be the same.

Q3 : The reverse cross has the same name

[karel_t]

Hi John,
That are very interesting thoughts.
Q1. If you will re-make the existing cross you should use already existing valid name. However there are several exceptions here, eg. P. Confirmation = P. Lagenaria (not P. x lagenaria), P. El Pico = P. Marcel Lecoufle). These names are registered as synonyms.

Q2. By valid orchid nomenclature the cross between man-made hybrids is different than cross between natural crossings. That is why the plants can have different names and they are not synonyms.

Q3. The reverse cross holds the same name as Julien's already written.
K.

[john hodgson]

Thanks to all who have either posted on this forum or contacted me directly.
Your replies are precise and thoughtful.... and easy for me to understand.
Highly useful to others too in the future I'd imagine.
John

[sjusovare]

Pleione humilis

 
 

[SteveC2]

I was doing a talk last night and at the end I was approached by someone who presented me with the sickest pleione bulbs I have ever seen.  Almost woody, covered in scars / scabs.  I had no idea what caused the damage, which is where you fine people come in.  Slug damage, massive brevipalpus infestation, a virus actually manifesting, cultural?  Please help!  I suggested that the bulbs be destroyed, but as the buds looked alright-ish the owner reckoned not.  All I could do then was suggest serious quarantining.

[sjusovare]

Difficult to say Steve, could be brevipalpus or a fungal infection of some kind in autumn if the medium was too wet when the plants entered in dormancy.

[SteveC2]

Photos are not too good I know, taken on a very very old mobile in quite poor light. 

[sjusovare]

I know it has already been mentionned (by Paul if I recall) but I can't find on which thread it was, so I'm going to ask again...
I know pleione pollinies can be frozen to keep them several months before making a cross, but how long can they be kept in the fridge without freezing?

[karel_t]

Steve, 10 years ago I had very similar problem. During winter (the bulbs were harvested clean and stored in paper bags) appeared on surface of P. limprichtii something like cork crust (see the picture). So I destroyed all affected bulbs and use fungicide for the others. The next year I used fungicide immediately after harvesting. The problem disappeared. Unfortunately, I don't know which fungus caused this problem 
K.

[SteveC2]

Thanks Karel.  Cork crust sums it up perfectly.

[Maren]

I agree, it's some fungal infection usually brought on when the bulbs are too wet in autumn. If that happens to me, I throw away the bulb because I don't want it to infect my collection. Quarantine? perhaps but it would have to be in another room. Fungal spores can travel on the lightest air movement. I also spray my bulbs with fungicide once or twice when in storage. It helps.

If the crust is away from the flower bud, it is possible to shave off the affected area right back to the healthy green of the bulb. This has to be done with a very sharp and clean knife. Then the bulb needs to be covered in sulphur dust or cinnamon and left to dry for a week before potting.

It's a lot of bother and doesn't always work. I follow the principle: if in doubt? Out!!

[karel_t]

Julien, I store mine for approximately 2 years in refrigerator. However they must be completely dry.
K.

[SteveC2]

The stupid thing is that I think the bulbs were garden centre Tongariro, just not worth the hassle in my opinion, but the guy in question wanted to keep them.  I even offered to replace them with three of mine, I have hundreds of this hybrid, but he declined.

[Maren]

Steve,
it was nice of you to offer him replacements. Some people just can't be helped. It doesn't stop us trying though.