Narcissus February 2015

[Rafa]

also two more pictures, a Narcissi composition (don't worry there were thousands of N. cantabricus, N. triandrus. pallidulus and many hybrids). The other one is a sight of the village, I took this picture in a little hill full of houses, built on the Narcissus plants (a protected species in Madrid, by the way)

[Matt T]

Rafa, what amazing sights you show us in these pictures. Truly stunning plants. I hope that no more houses will be built on them.

[Ian Y]

Truly stunning series of pictures Rafa thanks for sharing - it would have been great to have been with you to see such excuisit beuties but your pictures are a good consolation.

Sadly across the world the plants are protected while the land they need to grow on is not - I share your frustration Rafa.

Is the curve of the tube on N. Fernandesii significant?

[Rafa]

When you want Ian!

Yes I think it is very important this character.  My friend Fernando Ureña, who is an expert in this section, is making a huge and meticulous study of Jonquillas, measuring the "yellow" and "green" parts in the plant in many localities per species, many plants per locality, with the same measure tools, meassuring by the same (important!) hand and he is contrasting the results in a graphic. The results in all the species have a very clear draw. Species like N. cordubensis, N. baeticus, N. rivas-martinezii, N. assoasus praelongus etc... seems to be N. fernandesii, N. assoanus... There are no so many species in fact. It seems all this complex of yellow species is reduced to this list:

N. gaditanus
N. jonquilla
N. assoanus
N. cerrolazae
N. fernandesii
N. willkommii

[Yann]

Narcissus 'Mitimoto' from Anne

[ashley]

Ashley, is yours upward facing flower, too?

Sorry Tatsuo, I spotted your question only today

No it's not; (N. minor JJA702.305) flowers here are horizontal or slightly below.  They're also very variable in size and height, and consistently so.

[annew]

Rafa, you take my breath away as always - what is the proper name for that hybrid at the moment? And thank you for the jonquilla information. I'm almost afraid to look at mine, in case they don't match!

[YT]

Sorry Tatsuo, I spotted your question only today
No it's not; (N. minor JJA702.305) flowers here are horizontal or slightly below.  They're also very variable in size and height, and consistently so.

Thank you, Ashley I've got the answer by my self 2 days later I asked you http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12600.msg322930#msg322930

[YT]

Thank you for sharing the wonderful wild daffodil pictures, Rafa

A beautiful bicolour hoop, Yann

By the way, why these posts suddenly jumped to "January" thread

[Rafa]

The correct name is N. x susannae. I notice this hybrid could have pure white or ivory color forms depending the N. cantabricus form, in this cross, that also could be ivory or white. I only have seen variability in color of N. cantabricus in central spanish localities. As you go down to the south N. cantabricus becomes bigger, with corones less crenulated and homogeneous in color forms which are pure white.

I was wrong introducing this name N. x matritensis, it's quite complex to explain... In any moment N. x matritensis was considered the hybrid just for this plants from Central Spain, as N. cantabricus are really different from the localities from the south, but all of them are the same N. cantabricus and it is just a variability of the species, so the valid name is N. x susannae.

N. albicans its only possible in places where N. bulbocodium subsp. bulbocodium and N. cantabricus are present. They make fertile species called N. albicans, and at the same time they make non fertile hybrids, called N. x neocarpetanus nothovar. romanensis that have a range of forms depending who was the mother. When N. cantabricus is completely fade, in the same places it grows a group of plants that reminds southern localities of N. cantabricus, but they are in fact new crosses between N. cantabricus and N. albicans. This is the confusion I think, by considering this big N. cantabricus are N. albicans.

Conclusion, there are:
- N. cantabricus very variable in forms and colours
- N. albicans and a range of hybrids, in meeting poits of N. cantabricus and N. bulbocodium. There are N. albicans that remids the big forms of N. cantabricus from the southern localities.

So, the hybrids are
- N. x susannae (N. cantabricus x N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus) 
- N. x litigiosus (N. albicans x N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus) I never seen it

Sorry about it, this genus is a real problem... very very complex in some cases.

[Matt T]

Matt, I think I'll call it tananicus (hort) - as long as I list it with a photo and description, people will know what to expect.

From the article Narcissus in North Africa by Mike Salmon in the RHS Daffodil Yearbook 1986-7:

Narcissus albidus and its varieties
The distinction of being the most frequently occurring Narcissus with white flowers must go to Narcissus albidus and its varieties. They are found in the Rif, var. albidus throughout the Zaian Mountains, var. zaianicus; the Middle Atlas, subsp. albidus, the western High Atlas, var. tananicus; and the northern half of the Anti Atlas, var kesticus...

Narcissus albidus var. albidus has the smallest flowers, which are held upright on very short perianth tubes below a wide, bowl-shaped corona. This is the plant in cultivation both here and in the United Sates as N. bulbocodium tananicus.

...The true N. albidus var. tananicus has a restricted distribution in the western High Atlas where it is found in open, north-facing limestone slopes. It is similar to the last variety [N. a. var. albidus] but differs in having a relatively short perianth tube and funnel-shaped corona.

[annew]

Ah - I do have that issue Matt. I must read it. Re-reading Rafa's posts above, it's no wonder we are all confusus..

[annew]

Even more confusing, it is reported in the latest Daffodil Society Journal that we are now to use the following name changes:
N.alpestris  ..becomes....  N. pseudonarcissus moschatus
N. bulbocodium conspicuus ............N. bulbocodium quintanilha (!)
N. bulbocodium citrinus..................N. gigas
N. fernandesii var fernandesii, N. fernandesii var cordubensis, and N. fernandesii var henriquesii all become N. flavus!

[Maggi Young]

Where does N. jonquilla fit in - or do I really want to know?

[Matt T]

It's a right old mess and no mistake! I'm not sure that  N. gigas or N. flavus will mean anything to me, especially when the latter plants all look so different. I'm leaving my labels as they are.