Rosemary Burnham hybrids

[emma T]

Maybe I just got a duff one   

[Carolyn Walker]

Hagen, I am interested in what you said about Rosemary Burnham as that was going to be the next expensive snowdrop that I invested in.  One of my customers also lost hers (not from me).  Do you think it is hard to grow?  What do other people think?  If yes, is there a similar virescent with which you have had better success and which is available in the trade?

[Alan_b]

Rosemary Burnham has a bit of a reputation here for making sudden unexplained exits.  But it must be relatively easy to twin-scale judging by the numbers that are now becoming commercially available.

I don't think there is a good virescent snowdrop that is also a good doer.  If there was one we would all have it and thus not be so willing to pay top dollar to add one to our collection.  Hagen's 'Gruner Splitter' sound like a promising candidate but is some way off commercial availability.   

[Brian Ellis]

I don't think there is a good virescent snowdrop that is also a good doer.  If there was one we would all have it and thus not be so willing to pay top dollar to add one to our collection.  Hagen's 'Gruner Splitter' sound like a promising candidate but is some way off commercial availability.

Do you mean in your garden or in England?  We have seen lovely photos over the years of viriscent snowdrops, some like 'Green Tear' and 'Hugh Mackenzie' are vigorous garden snowdrops, my 'Rosemary Burnham' is now settled in and increasing well much to my delight.  I am sure Kentgardener has quite a few that do well.

[Brian Ellis]

...and of course 'Cowhouse Green' sorry about the focus!

[Alan_b]

Do you mean in your garden or in England?

I meant England.  When I visit snowdrop gardens or I do not see much in the way of virescent snowdrops.  I'm sure there are honourable exceptions and perhaps your garden is one such. 

'Green Tear' is expensive to buy and you are fortunate indeed if you have had one long enough to know that it is vigorous; I'm not sure if I have ever even seen 'Hugh Mackenzie'.  There is 'Cowhouse Green' but the green there is so pale and blotchy that I do not find it particularly handsome.  No, sorry, I was thinking of 'Greenish', 'Cowhouse Green' is pale but much more attractive.

Which one would your recommend to Carolyn, Brian? 

[Brian Ellis]

'Green Tear' is expensive to buy and you are fortunate indeed if you have had one long enough to know that it is vigorous; ....I'm not sure if I have ever even seen 'Hugh Mackenzie'. 
Which one would your recommend to Carolyn, Brian?

I have seen pictures of the clump (Green Tear) from which they have been sold which is very vigorous.  I think Carolyn should see what is available, buy what she fancies and nurture it until it settles in.  I always hesitate to recommend a particular snowdrop to someone as it is very much a matter of taste and what is available ,combined with your own garden conditions.

[johnw]

I've been growing 'Rosemary Burnham' since the late 80's, the original find was made +/-30 years before that.  It bulked very well indeed and I was able to pass it along to fellow galathophiles throughout the 90's, seems most of the earliest recipients requested a replacement.  Could the first ones shared have been been tired old bulbs?  About 2007 there were still circa 50 bulbs in one clump but by August it was reduced to a handful of empty tunics save for one tiny bulb.  It would be unfair to blame the cultivar as division was long overdue and I was later prone to digging and passing along only the younger outermost offsets.  With a few replenishments from good friends in BC in 2008/9 RB is roaring away again here and the count exceeds 2007 numbers.  Over the years many in the UK have reported puzzling losses and I can only suggest planting it where it gets sun, air circulation and spends its dormancy period quite dry as well as avoiding peat.  And keep dividing it regularly.  Other forces may be at play across the pond, I have problems with the likes of 'S. Arnott', 'John Gray' and 'Straffan' so my remarks should best be taken with a grain of salt.

This all leads to a question that has been in the back of my mind for some time.  What is the life expectancy of an individual snowdrop bulb?

johnw - +9c

Rainfall Warning  - Issued at 4:39 a.m. AST Wednesday 10 December 2014
Summary
A broad area of low pressure southwest of the Maritimes will remain nearly stationary today and Thursday. Rain at times heavy will persist today and tonight before ending Thursday morning. Total rainfall amounts of 60 to 100 millimetres are expected with locally up to 150 millimetres possible.

[Alan_b]

I take your point Brian; "recommend" is too strong.  I guess what I was really after is which of the virescents is your favourite?  I have always been attracted by pictures of 'Green Mile' with its very pronounced white tip to the green outer petals.  But I have never seen it in actuality and cannot afford to buy it.

I used to have a lovely virescent elwesii of my own discovery but two of the three bulbs vanished (probably eaten) and the remaining bulb was chipped but is really struggling to grow back to full size.  I think this type displays best against a white background, such as a light covering of snow.

I had no idea there was a 'parent clump' of Green Tear; I had assumed is was propagated artificially as most snowdrops seem to be.

John, some bulbs make offsets but others seem to 'disintegrate' into multiple smaller bulbs that are initially enclosed by the original outer tunic.  'Green Light' did that in the pictures I posted recently.  In such cases the original bulb is not identifyable; in fact it may well be 'consumed'.  Perhaps it perishes and in effect you are left with only offsets.  Or perhaps it just divides; I don't know.  If a bulb will do this it can bulk-up very rapidly, as fast as twin-scaling, possibly.         

[johnw]

Alan

Two come to mind, nivalis 'Appleby' and "caucasicus", both from P&M and both of which took more than a dozen years to produce a single offset.  My lagodechianus which originated from Thelma Chapman is a perfect example of a disintegrater, it's never flowered.

johnw

[mark smyth]

I don't think my 'Green Brush' lived long enough to set seed . Won't bother with it again .

My original two were badly infected with stagonospora and they died soon after trying to flower. Very unhappy with what I received

[Carolyn Walker]

Thanks for all the information and the great discussion.  I have 'Greenish', which may have died this past summer, it was shriveled when I got it, so I haven't see the flower.  I also have 'Cowhouse Green', which is doing quite well.  Maybe these are technically virescent, is there a definition?  But what I want is one of each of Hagen's green snowdrops a really green single snowdrop inside and out like 'Rosemary Burnham'.  Maybe we could make a list like the one Alan made for early flowering that contains all the known virescent snowdrops as not many names have been mentioned so far.  For example, I believe 'Green Tear' sold for the third highest amount on eBay.  Are there others that are more in the 50 pound range?

[carolesmith]

Rick I will try and remember an update for "Green Brush", they are through both in pots and in the ground so I now only need to check the marks.
I also split 'Rosemary Burnham' this year (4 yrs old) because of overcrowding in the pond basket and they are showing now both in pots and the ground. I am in the habit of pushing seed pods in to the ground near the parent and am waiting for the seedlings of 'Rosemary Burnham' to reach flowering size to see what I get.
Previously  good size clumps of both 'Virescens' and 'Viridapice' have simply disappeared on me, fortunately I had placed Viridapice elsewhere but not the Virescens.
I remember being told by 'an expert' some 10 or more years ago, when I was pleased with my clump of  'Sandersii', first given to me by him, that they could simply disappear and have since tried to keep things in more than one place. Admittedly this is not always possible because of lack of both time and space but it does seem to be a good insurance policy. Likewise growing in pond baskets is my defence against moles.

[Alan_b]

By 'disintegrate' I did not mean to imply that the bulbs remain too small to flower, although that certainly can happen.  I mean, in the best case, a situation like the lower bulb in the picture below.  This produced (at least) two flowers and a mass of leaves but all still surrounded by the outer part of the previous year's bulb.  So the 'offsets' are internal to the bulb structure rather than external  and it is therefore very difficult to know whether or not the bulb from the previous year is still there or has put all its energy into these 'internal offsets' and withered away as a result.   

[Hagen Engelmann]

This thread is about green galanthus, a very lovely theme.
Carolyn, in 2013 I got a chance to visit Sue and Wol Stains in their fantastic garden. I saw a lot of big clumps/tuffs of fine galanthus but one of the best was ROSEMARY BURNHAM. The Staines know the know how to get best results also with RB, also in GB.
Here in my garden I have a big number of different but good  Gn virescens. Alan spoke about GRÜNER SPLITTER. This cultivar is a real good doer, every year with a good number of offsets. HAGEN HASTDUNICHTGESEHN is another very unusual virescens and has also a high number of daughterbulbs every year. And in the yearbook I told about some other  Gn virescens of mine. In my trial the number of virescens is bigger than 60. But only the best will get names.
But I'm not a nursery man, I'm only a galanthophile.
So the problems of a nursery are'nt mine.

Sorry Carolyn, but European Galanthus and American phytosanitary claims are different ways