Yellow and yellowish G. nivalis

[Tim Ingram]

If I listed all the books that I have constantly referred too, the 'Snowdrop Book' would be up there with Graham Stuart Thomas' 'Perennials' and Ingwersen's 'Manual of Alpine Plants'. I found the links with so many remarkable gardeners, past and present such a strong feature of it, and as a relative neophyte to galanthus, completely fascinating. I love books (which have a personality about them that the Internet can't really mimic), so I hope a publisher would go with this, but agree with Brian and Marcia - a fully fledged 'Snowdrops 2' would be extremely specialised. My dream is to write about 'Umbellifers' and sometimes the more I learn the more this recedes - so just getting the information together must be the key! I found Anne's descriptions of 'yellow' crosses on this Forum very striking because snowdrops have generally been discovered rather than deliberately aimed for in controlled breeding programmes, and the latter introduces a different approach and potential. Somehow, I don't see the interest in snowdrops declining but rather like the specialist garden societies new gardeners also have to be drawn in, and snowdrops that are distinctive and grow really well in gardens are most likely to do this. For me 'Wendy's Gold' grows wonderfully and 'Primrose Warburg' hasn't done, but in a friend's garden I have just divided a clump of the latter into 50 or 60 bulbs! It shows the individuality of different gardens and gardeners when it comes to snowdrops!

[Matt Bishop]

Dear All,

I am hoping that someone out there might be able to help with some information.......

I'm currently writing the entry for G. nivalis 'Audrey Vockins' /'Gunther's Geist'. Here's where I've got to so far:

"The 2006 season was noteworthy for its lateness to the point that the March RHS show was every bit as interesting as it February counterpart for its snowdrops. The undoubted star to have arrived on the scene that day was the first example of a poculiform ‘Sandersii’ (sic.) (pers. comm. A. Street 2006). Galanthophiles were quick to spot its inclusion on the Foxgrove display labelled ‘Poculoformis’ (sic).  Its origin is tanatalisingly uncertain, the material having come to Foxgrove some years earlier from the garden of a customer (whose name has been forgotten) where it was apparently grown simply as a yellow snowdrop (Leslie 2006)........"

The name for this stock, 'Gunther's Geist' seesm to have first been published in Gunther's book in 2011 with 'Audrey Vockins' given in barckets as a synonym. Unfortunately the name chosen by the originator of the stock has to take presedence (under the code). If they are not identified the best that can be done at present is to revert to the earliest published name with a description. Therefore:

Does anyone know the answer to the following:

1. Does anyone either themselves grow, or knows someone who grows the stock which went to Foxgrove of what is essentially a poculform 'Sandersii' (sic)

2. Is anyone aware of a publication that predates Gunther's 2011 book describing this snowdrop (under the name of 'Audrey Vockins') with any kind of description, no matter how vague?

There is a question mark over which name takes precident - resolved by the date of first publication with a description but ultimately the choice of name from the originator of the stock. I'm hoping to be able to resolve this before publication to minimise the possibiloity of confusion later on were the originator to be identified and decided to excercise their right to a choice of this clone's name rendering the previous two synonyms.

Apologies of this is slightly long winded!

Many thanks,

Matt

[Alan_b]

Matt, I presume you have spoken to Audrey Vockins to confirm she is not the originator?  She is third from the left in the front row of this picture of 'The Immortals' here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/plants/8376143/Snowdrops-Celebrating-the-Immortals.html .  If the name gets changed, that will deprive Audrey of her immortality.

[Matt Bishop]

Thanks Alan, Unfortunately in this situation there someone looses out - and they are both people who richly deserve their immortality! I just couldn't, in all conscience, go to press knowing thyat there could be a potentially confusing sitation looming for the name of this snowdrop in the future, not having do my best to resolve it.

Regards M

[Alan_b]

The first appearance I can find on the forum (as 'Audrey Vockins') was here: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6625.msg187940#msg187940 so maybe Mark Smyth is your man?

[Matt Bishop]

Thanks Alan,

Certainly a mention but dates are establishment of cultivars epithets currently exclude all references on the web and so this plays no part.......

M

[Alan_b]

I'm aware of that rule, Matt; it's so last millennium.  But clearly the name was well-established before February/March 2011 when Mark published his picture and you and Audrey Vockins were photographed in that group of 'Immortals'.  It's hard to believe that could have happened without the name appearing in print somewhere.  Would a sales list count as a printed reference?  There is a snowdrop close to my heart that was named in order to be sold and so the first printed reference, probably by some years, is in a sales list.     

[mark smyth]

Joe gave me the photo in March 2010

[Maggi Young]

This web page     http://www.zauber-pflanzen.de/galanthus_sorten_hybriden.html    says  that:
"Galanthus ' Günther 's Ghost ' ('Audrey Vockins') - is a  yellow G. nivalis, but with pure white inner petals. The albino type was a selection in the Oirlicher flower garden of Günter Waldorf from the year 2009. The American owner of a snowdrop shipment Hitch Lyman dedicated it to his British mentor Audrey Vockins (1929)."

Sounds as if Hitch Lyman gave it Audrey's name - but it is still  unclear if it had been named previously  for Gunther.
Perhaps you need Hitch Lyman's input as well as that of Gunther's widow,  Matt .

[mark smyth]

I'll phone Hitch later or tomorrow

[Alan_b]

Joe gave me the photo in March 2010

Joe being Joe Sharman, Mark?

There's a nice article on Hitch Lyman here http://donstathamblog.com/kaatskill-articles-3/hitch-lyman-galanthophile/

[mark smyth]

Yes Joe Sharman. I've text him to contact Matt

[Matt Bishop]

......still working on yellow G. nivalis and have come accross 'Webb's Gold' and am wondering either if he is a forum member or anyone could possibly put me in touch with him?

Many thanks,

Matt

[Maggi Young]

......still working on yellow G. nivalis and have come accross 'Webb's Gold' and am wondering either if he is a forum member or anyone could possibly put me in touch with him?

Many thanks,

Matt

Might it be one from Richard Webb? ( at Benington Lordship?)

[Matt Bishop]

Thanks Maggi, and Yep, you were right. Embarassing. I'm rubbish which peoples' names