We hope you have enjoyed the SRGC Forum. You can make a Paypal donation to the SRGC by clicking the above button

Author Topic: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements  (Read 100035 times)

Hillview croconut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
  • Country: au
    • Hillview Rare Plants
Re: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements
« Reply #240 on: March 28, 2016, 10:41:54 AM »
Hi Forumists,

Some might be interested in what Tom Mitchell has to say about CBD and in and ex situ conservation,.

Cheers, Marcus

http://www.revolution-snowdrops.co.uk/galanthus-trojanus/

Hillview croconut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
  • Country: au
    • Hillview Rare Plants
Re: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements
« Reply #241 on: March 28, 2016, 12:32:33 PM »
PS And for those who have doubts about seed banks, ex situ plant zoos or re-establishment of species and habitats, then  maybe have a look at this lecture by Timothy Walker, former director of Oxford Botanic Gardens.


ashley

  • Pops in from Cork
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2713
  • Country: ie
Re: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements
« Reply #242 on: March 28, 2016, 12:35:29 PM »
Thanks Marcus.  As you have done too, Tom shows very clearly the unintended and detrimental consequences of these controls that distract from the core problem of habitat loss.
Ashley Allshire, Cork, Ireland

Tristan_He

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1217
  • Country: wales
Re: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements
« Reply #243 on: March 28, 2016, 11:54:25 PM »
Hi Forumists,

Some might be interested in what Tom Mitchell has to say about CBD and in and ex situ conservation,.

Cheers, Marcus

http://www.revolution-snowdrops.co.uk/galanthus-trojanus/

Marcus, interesting indeed. I think the trouble with it is that no explanation is provided of what steps he or botanical institutions have taken to work with the Turkish authorities and / or people to conserve this species in situ. Has he spoken to the Turkish conservation organisation, a botanic garden there for example, or even to the farmer? A sympathetic landowner makes a huge difference and often / usually farmers have no idea of the biodiversity value of their land. Safeguarding the habitat is clearly paramount here.

Likewise, I must confess I do not understand the conservation value, in situ or ex situ, of Kew having a single plant that they are not allowed to propagate? Are Kew really conserving this species or simply collecting/researching it?

My own view is firmly that in situ needs to be the default setting for plants and animals, because it is tried and tested over millions of years. Sometimes ex situ conservation is needed - a sort of intensive care for species - and whether that is for Mallorcan Midwife Toads, Bengal Tigers, Golden Mantellas, Tecophilaea cyanocrocus or Lady's slipper orchids, then action needs to be taken. It also needs to be part of an overall conservation plan, because species cannot be maintained in gardens or seed banks for ever.

It's also odd to claim that Galanthus are not worthy of CITES listing. Millions of snowdrops (and cyclamens, and aconites and no doubt other things) were dug up every year from Turkey every year and exported to gardens, where many died due to storage in unsuitable conditions. Thank goodness this trade has greatly diminished, and I'm sure that the red tape associated with CITES has helped* home growers become more economic. It's also much better for gardeners because the snowdrops (although perhaps more expensive) are far better quality.

* There's been a big cultural change too which has been at least as important in my opinion.

Tristan_He

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1217
  • Country: wales
Re: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements
« Reply #244 on: March 29, 2016, 12:41:19 AM »
PS And for those who have doubts about seed banks, ex situ plant zoos or re-establishment of species and habitats, then  maybe have a look at this lecture by Timothy Walker, former director of Oxford Botanic Gardens.



He needs someone to work on his jokes!

More seriously, the idea that ex situ animal conservation is impossible is complete nonsense - there are loads of examples. However the key problems are the large resource requirement and unintentional domestication. I would imagine that the same is true of plants, especially when they are grown away from their natural environment and climate. Different Madagascar animal groups needed different reserves, so the idea of a fundamental difference between animal and plant requirements is a misinterpretation. It's just a consequence of looking at different datasets and of taking an arbitrary area (10%) as the starting point.

I didn't think he made much of an argument for seed banks, beyond quoting somebody else who said that every plant species can be conserved in this way. Personally I think this highly unlikely to be technically possible, and it's not my idea of conservation. I find it very strange that he and Tom Mitchell can observe the damage done to our beautiful natural world, and then say that the way to solve it is to put lots of seeds in a freezer. It just seems to miss the point. However, as with other forms of ex situ conservation, seed banks can certainly form part of the solution. The danger is that they divert resources from habitat conservation and then that seed may not be viable.

The above notwithstanding, ex situ conservation of plant species is easier and cheaper on a per species basis than animal conservation, and therefore ex situ conservation has greater potential in plant conservation. That said, many terrestrial ecosystems consist mainly of plants, so it's quite hard to conserve animals without also conserving lots of plants!

I thought the last 15 minutes or so when he talked about habitat restoration / management / creation were very good and thought that the signage working to stop picking of snakeshead fritillary was a good example of community education. I wonder if it would work in Fred's wood in Belgium? It's a pity that in the arable meadow restoration they did not try some deep ploughing or scraping back of soil to see if they could resurrect an ancient seedbank. It has worked very well in other circumstances, and who knows what might come up?

https://ghostponds.wordpress.com/

Tristan_He

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1217
  • Country: wales
Re: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements
« Reply #245 on: March 30, 2016, 08:38:03 AM »
Ian's enquiry about Woodsia ilvensis on another thread prompted me to post these. This is the notes from a symposium I came across recently from a symposium on collecting and wildlife in the UK from 1967 - see particularly Derek Ratcliffe's article. Ratcliffe was a leading light in UK conservation at that time and it's reasonable to suppose his views will have substantially shaped the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981. It's interesting to see what has changed (butterfly collecting, digging up plants) and what has not (wildfowling), and the discussion that would have helped frame approaches to legislation.

http://nora.nerc.ac.uk/7088/1/03.pdf#page=24

Back to Woodsia, there were attempts to carry out ex situ conservation during the 1990s and 2000s, which were only partially successful. See http://archive.bsbi.org.uk/BSBI_Recorder_11.pdf]
[url]http://archive.bsbi.org.uk/BSBI_Recorder_11.pdf
[/url].

ian mcdonald

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2196
  • Country: gb
Re: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements
« Reply #246 on: March 30, 2016, 05:21:43 PM »
Hello Tristan, some Woodsia was propagated ex-situ, with some "spare" plants. These were offered to the public but I found out too late. Only bona-fide organisations should carry out this vital work, with permission from the relevant authority i.e. NE or the Scottish govt. or Welsh or Irish govts. The collection of plant material on an un-regulated basis would mean that once common plants would become scarce and scarce plants would become rare etc. Derek Ratcliffe seemed to have covered much of the country and wrote extensively on Conservation of habitats. The RBGE have been involved in propagating plants ex-situ and re-introducing them to former habitats.

ian mcdonald

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2196
  • Country: gb
Re: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements
« Reply #247 on: March 30, 2016, 05:48:27 PM »
One thing puzzles me about seed collection in this country and the Seed Bank. The Seed Bank ask for quite large amounts of seed to be gathered by voluntary collectors. Every so many years a proportion of each species of seed is subject to germination trials, to check that the seed is still viable. I asked the seed bank if this germinated seed could be sold to the public, so that we could grow the plants on, in our gardens. I was told that this was not possible. It seems like a waste of resource to me. As a quantity of seed has been used for these trials then more seed needs to be gathered to make up the deficit. The system should provide for the retention of these seedlings in cultivation. I am not referring to "weed" species but those species that are garden-worthy. As already pointed out, if the original habitat where the seed was collected has altered so that it no longer supports those species, who decides the fate of the rarer species?

Maggi Young

  • Forum Dogsbody
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44017
  • Country: scotland
  • "There's often a clue"
    • International Rock Gardener e-magazine
Re: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements
« Reply #248 on: August 03, 2016, 08:49:13 PM »
From Robbie Blackhall-Miles : UK group issues Nagoya Protocol statement
 
 The Nagoya protocol working group has been meeting now for quite some time to work out how UK horticulture can work within the realms of this piece of international legislation. Today we issued a statement on the matter.
 
 
 The full Nagoya protocol working group statement can be found .....HERE

RHS page on Nagoya https://www.rhs.org.uk/about-the-rhs/blogs/news-blog/August-2016/nagoya-protocol-statement
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 07:16:27 PM by Maggi Young »
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

Editor: International Rock Gardener e-magazine

vivienne Condon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
  • Country: au
Re: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements
« Reply #249 on: August 23, 2016, 10:16:03 AM »
What worries me if we do not collect small amounts of seed in the wild is that the plants in all their forms will be lost forever. Yes some plants don't last in our gardens as long as the plants in the wild, but while we struggle with some plants someone else just down the road is growing it beautifully in their garden and collecting the seed to exchange with others on the seed exchanges.
When you go to countries to see plants growing in the wild it is so frustrating to see the mountains, National Parks covered in goats and cattle there is no one to police and control these animals the governments do not have the money to be spent controlling this, they are usually on the verge of bankruptcy. So even if they bring in all these rules who is going to police it.
I know this is a simplistic view, but that is how it is no one can win.

Maggi Young

  • Forum Dogsbody
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44017
  • Country: scotland
  • "There's often a clue"
    • International Rock Gardener e-magazine
Re: Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements
« Reply #250 on: September 06, 2016, 03:13:28 PM »
Another thread on the subject of the Nagoya Protocol here : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=14702.0
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

Editor: International Rock Gardener e-magazine

 


Scottish Rock Garden Club is a Charity registered with Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR): SC000942
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal