Regulatory threats to seed exchanges and plant movements

[Maggi Young]

"The REAL threat to plant biodiversity is habitat destruction, over-exploitation of the environment and state indifference "

I agree - I cannot see how anyone can think that habitat destruction is not the biggest threat:   we can see , for instance, from sadly too many instances shown in this forum of, for example, the illegal building of homes and entire villages in Spain, on land which is supposedly "protected" - with all done with impunity. No prior arrangement for preservation by removal etc , no comeback on the transgressors......

[Matt T]

Habitat destruction by over-grazing is rife across the world. Too many animals munching their way across the landscape is the biggest problem in my eyes, but it's a brave man who tries to stop a poor farmer feeding his family and making an honest living.

I'm saying nothing about the huge agri-environment subsidies that are all too often paid out to those who least need them... 

[Hillview croconut]

"As I have stated before on this thread: The REAL threat to plant biodiversity is habitat destruction, over-exploitation of the environment and state indifference NOT collecting a few seeds, which afterall is a trivial activity compared to the aforemention".

BTW the above is where the REAL work needs to be directed.  Oh, but that's way too hard and involves getting individual countries to take some responsibility (I have provided examples earlier on).
So,  instead the perpetrators of this puffery pick on soft targets and feel like they have achieved something useful.  Well, no, habitats will still go on being destroyed,  plant populations still still be lost ....  Rome burns while Nero fiddles! And these drongos get paid for this or do they just turn up to make up the numbers?
M

[Hillview croconut]

Hi Mat,

Point taken but let the powers that draft this legislation be honest about that rather than pick on what is,  and I repeat for EVERYONES' benefit, a trivial issue.

 Seed collection in the face of the BIG issues is a pimple on a pumpkin yet so much effort and do much legislative heft has been put this way one would be forgiven for believing that THIS ISSUE is the BIG one!

The people involved in dragging up and ratifying this garbage are more guilty of committing destructive acts towards BD than any plant Hunter could ever be.

M

[Susan Band]

The EU has withdraw its proposed legislation regarding plant propergation material. http://www.euroseeds.org/commission-withdraws-proposal-new-eu-seed-law

Common sense prevails at last

[arisaema]

"The REAL threat to plant biodiversity is habitat destruction, over-exploitation of the environment and state indifference "

I agree - I cannot see how anyone can think that habitat destruction is not the biggest threat:   we can see , for instance, from sadly too many instances shown in this forum of, for example, the illegal building of homes and entire villages in Spain, on land which is supposedly "protected" - with all done with impunity. No prior arrangement for preservation by removal etc , no comeback on the transgressors......

For someone living in China I can second, third and one bilion this, the biggest threat is habitat destruction, whether from grazing, farming, construction - or wild digging of plants. Lilium yapingense is a perfect example, 80% of the bulbs growing at the one known (type) location had been dug up sometime between July and October of 2014. The local government is also talking about creating a "national park" tourist destination in the very location in grows, and if no one digs the remaining bulbs I'm sadly almost certain they'll succumb to "future tourist development". I know ex situ conservation is generally frowned upon, but if I hadn't introduced the species to cultivation I have to wonder what would have happened to it in 5-10 years time... Hopefully it is more widespread than currently known!

[Lewis Potter]

The EU has withdraw its proposed legislation regarding plant propergation material. http://www.euroseeds.org/commission-withdraws-proposal-new-eu-seed-law

Common sense prevails at last

These EU bureaucrats like to muddle with as much of our lives as possible. I don't think its common sense, I think they now understand the current debates about the United Kingdoms membership of the EU, and they will do anything they can to persuade us to stay in. Even things like a "Seed Law"

Even so, I am glad that they have withdrawn it. I just feel sorry for the Aussies here that have the burden of the law on their shoulders.

[ian mcdonald]

Arisaema, I agree with you about ex-situ conservation being frowned upon but think it is the last resort. Do we "do the right thing" and not interfere. If respected scientific organisations such as the RBGE for instance, took this view, then "at risk" plants would become endangered and endangered plants would be locally extinct. Our wildlife and habitats need to be protected against "development,"  whether it is housing, industry or tourism. Our ancestors destroyed our natural environment and we are destroying the man made environment at an ever increasing rate. How can this countries government criticize other countries for destroying their environment when we lead the world in destruction.

[Tim Ingram]

This is such a difficult thread to read at times because it revolves around learning and a knowledge of the world in all its diversity, and in its local diversity, where many (most) people are really concerned with self-interest. Here is a quote taken from the reviews of 'The Diversity of Life' by Edward O. Wilson - made by T. H. Watkins in the Washington Post:

'Wilson takes us by the hand and leads us through the wilderness of diversity ... a mad, wonderful saraband of complexity and cohabitation that Wilson conducts with eloquence, clarity and wit'.

I wonder how many people in general or specifically concerned with drawing up these protocols, or lawyers potentially involved in instituting them, or those who ponder what results they will really have, have read this book (or others like 'Plant and Planet' by Anthony Huxley, or 'The Secret Life of Trees' by Colin Tudge), or perhaps view this website? It's not so much that there are answers - there are in specific situations like that mentioned by Arisaema relating to a rare lily, even if in the long term this plant is likely to disappear - there is simply an increased sensitivity to the environment which you have especially when you work with and on the land. Much of this seems to be to do with standing your ground against unsustainable and unregulated development, and this doesn't look to have changed greatly over the century or more since a figure like John Muir founded the Sierra Club and caused National Parks like Yellowstone to come into being in the USA. Here, I think, I might disagree with Ian because even if we lead the world in its destruction (debatable) we are at the same time much more aware of this, and to be aware is to react.

[johnstephen29]

Hi I have been read this thread with great interest, especially about habitat destruction. Would it be fair to say we gardeners have played our part in that in certain places. I am of course talking out peat, when I lived in Doncaster, I remember the moorlands to the east of the village of Hatfield having the peat harvested, once the peat is gone that beautiful place is changed forever. I'm not sure if it is still happening as I haven't been there in ages. If there wasn't a demand for peat in the horticultural trade there wouldn't be peat extraction going on, having said that, I have heard that the composts on sale to try to wean you away from peat haven't been much good.

[ian mcdonald]

Hello John, I think some of the problem with "green compost" i.e. collected garden waste, is that it includes woody material which is not broken down fine enough or composted for the required length of time. If it were I think it would be equally as good as other materials. I once suggested that there are two materials that people want to be rid of, sewage and straw.  Most straw is now chopped by an attachment on the combined harvester and ploughed into the soil. This is because there are less dairy herds so less winter bedding is required. Ploughing straw into the soil also encourages  slugs and slug pellets need to be spread on the fields. I was told that human sewage could not be used in Horticulture because it contains heavy metals. I wonder where the heavy metals came from before they got into the sewage? Composting sewage and straw would make a horticulture medium and recycle two problems in one go. We used to use animal waste to grow edible plants and still do. Human sewage is also "piped" into fields to grow crops. It is piped because people complained of the smell.

[Maggi Young]

I don't know if this is correct - but this article claims that "Seed  sharing is illegal in nearly 30 states of the USA.  These regulations may not often be enforced, but the penalties are pretty tough if they were to be - certainly smacks of overkill :

http://www.the-open-mind.com/seed-sharing-is-illegal-in-nearly-30-of-us-states/

[johnstephen29]

How ridiculous is that Maggi, I don't know about anyone else but I find one of the best things about gardening is swapping plants and seeds with family and friends. It's also one of the pleasures of membership of the srgc, can you imagine if that was law over here.

[ian mcdonald]

I was once told of someone, many years ago, who was taking a holiday in the west indies. He read that they do not have rose bay willowherb there so he took some seed.

[johnralphcarpenter]

Blustery old day for the Great Dixter Plant Fair today, some excellent nursery stands (bought a snowdrop from Joe Sharman). Tom Mitchell  gave an excellent talk on the evils of the Nagoya Protocol and the death of plant hunting. Seems to me that if a plant was not in cultivation by 2014, it never will be.