Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Alpines => Topic started by: Susann on January 14, 2013, 04:33:03 PM
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I can not find any Pulsatilla thread? So, as a newbie I start one showing some beatius of the genus
[attachimg=1]
Pulsatilla vernalis with white hair, origin of seeds Norway
[attachimg=2]
and this Pulsatilla halleri ssp slavica isnīt too bad, is it?
[attachimg=3]
some P vulgaris seedheads. It is really a genus that you can enjoy for a long time during the season
[attachimg=4]
this is a P vulgaris-hybrid "Heiler". I wish I could get this colour more often, but the seeds do not listen to me...
[attachimg=5]
And finally in this post one of my favorites, it is so ugly that it is beautiful. Pulsatilla albana ssp albana
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Sorry, I can not resist to add some more pictures. My friends knows better than bring up the subject Pulsatilla because there is no way to make me stop talking. But right now, I do not see any stop-signs?
[attachimg=1]
I think it is a Pulsatilla bungeana ssp bungeana, correct me if I am wrong.
[attachimg=2]
More Pulsatilla halleri ssp slavica. Can you understand there are people who does not like Pulsatillas?
[attachimg=3]
Yes, this Pulsatilla patens ssp flavescens came out really beautiful. I wish they all would. Or actually, I think they all do!
[attachimg=4]
A gold-haired Pulsatilla vulgaris bud. I do not know the origin of the seeds but would really like to know if the white-haired and golden-haired appear in the same populations or if it is a geographical difference? Is there anyone who knows?
[attachimg=5]
and finally, this is something very special, folks. A Pulsatilla x taraxacum, I am sure it is the only one you have seen this far? I wonder if it is fertil? ( P albana ssp violacea)
Would you like to see more? Why donīt you join me in my Pulsatilla expedition in 2014? The route will be Kazakstan, southern Altai-area, Mongolia, Baikal-area and finally Hokkaido. You are welcome to join for part of the trip or the whole time. I plan to be away for 6 weeks, perhaps a little more. I will son post an ad with more information at "travel".
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Sorry, I can not resist to add some more pictures. My friends knows better than bring up the subject Pulsatilla because there is no way to make me stop talking. But right now, I do not see any stop-signs?
You won't get any stop signs from here Susan, that Pulsatilla patens ssp flavescens is a lovely picture.
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Fantastic photos Susann, thank you for posting. They are all beautiful - I do not agree that albana is ugly; looks as soft as a kitten. Love the one with golden hairs and the Taraxacum hybrid is delightful, do wish they would hybridise like that in my garden!
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Your plants - and pictures - are lovely Susann. I don't know any alpine gardener who doesn't love pulsatillas, so any more you have to show us will be very welcome. :)
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They are completely more-ish! Do you have any photos of P. turczaninovii? This is one I have grown and lost but remember as being particularly delightful.
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Susann,
great images - I'm a lover of hairy Pulsatillas too. :D
Pulsatilla patens ssp flavescens is one of my favourites. I had some seedlings but lost most of them by last February black frosts. Hope for a better growth of the survivors.
P. vernalis also does not thrive very well in my calcecarous soil and I lost it after 2 years growing.
P. turczaninovii thrives since a couple of years but lacks of flowers. Any hinds?
P. vulgaris, P. halleri (ssp. slavica+rhodopaea) and P. pratensis ssp. nigricans grow very well in my low land conditions. :D
I'm glad to see more of your images and I'm excited to post my own picturs in spring.
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Very nice Fantastic photos Susann and the Taraxacum hybrid is strange !
I love Pulsatilla but i have only two plants of that in garden.
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Lovely Pulsatilla pictures, Susann.
Especially for you, Tim - Pulsatilla turczaninovii in Gothenburg Botanic Garden in May last year. It is a gorgeous shade of blue.
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This topic is like a call to spring to come. :) Thank you Susann! May I continue?
Pulsatilla turczaninovii is a species closely related to P. ambigua. Sometimes people confuse them. P. turczaninovii leaves are tripinnate (divided at three levels).
This is true P. turczaninovii
(http://cs1819.userapi.com/u6450879/97775300/x_f9c32bba.jpg)
(http://cs9807.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_cd28a98b.jpg)
It's leaf is the biggest at this photo
(http://cs10623.userapi.com/u6450879/97775300/y_f7092a77.jpg)
And this is P. ambigua
(http://cs4942.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/y_9e8f3725.jpg)
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And other Pulsatillas.
Pulsatilla patens Moscow area
(http://cs1680.userapi.com/u6450879/92164489/x_b887ab10.jpg)
P. flavescens
(http://cs5687.userapi.com/v5687879/8c2/t0AWcGIQQno.jpg)
(http://cs10057.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/y_fb44813b.jpg)
P. multifida
(http://cs11421.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/y_78798d4c.jpg)
(http://cs10918.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/y_6b8bac3a.jpg)
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Fabulous photos Olga, I particularly like the second photo of P.turczaninovii, lovely plant.
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Beautiful pictures, Olga. So the Pulsatilla turczaninovii in Gothenburg Botanic Garden is really Pulsatilla ambigua. Botanic gardens do not always have the correct name on the label.
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Olga and Roma, thank you so much for those photos - now I know more and they are truly exquisite. P. flavescens is a great beauty that I have only learned about on this website.
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All lovely but like the others I'm especially taken with flavescens.
Pulsatilla vernalis is a source of extreme frustration here. It is my favourite alpine but I can't flower it no matter what regime I try or whatever the source of the plants. Buds form but always abort just as they start to grow in late winter.
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Roma Yes I think so. The plant is closer to P. ambigua.
I can show some images of P. turczaninovii made by my friend Andrey Dedov living at Altai. Natural habit of P. turczaninovii.
(http://cs417519.userapi.com/v417519025/30f0/zG-MovMpKf0.jpg)
(http://cs417519.userapi.com/v417519025/3102/eYrZMT-EV9U.jpg)
You can see finely pinnated old brown leaves at the last photo.
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P. flavescens is a great beauty that I have only learned about on this website.
All lovely but like the others I'm especially taken with flavescens.
I like the species very much. It has large flowers and very hardy.
(http://cs9282.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_738a2e25.jpg)
(http://cs10081.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_96ed7b63.jpg)
(http://cs10142.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/y_94c21044.jpg)
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Dearest Olga, thank you for sharing your very beautiful pictures with us. But, I am sorry to say this; are you really sure you did post the right photos? The first one, with a beautiful flower just opening does not look like a P turzcaninovii at all to me? As you know, they flower together with the leaves, has lilac pistills and usually not that gaping flowers?
And as you already know we do not always agree about P turzcaninovii and P amigua. I will try to post some herbarie specimens and drawings from floras, if I only can figure out how. I also beleive that one has to look at the involucrate leaves, the lenght of the stamens towards the petals, hair etc to be sure wicht species it is. It is a mess. As you say, they belong to the same subsection, Albanae. I will post some photos I belive is P turczaninovii, lets see what you think about them. And, I do think the Gothemburg close-up is correclty labelled?
Oh, I really wish it would be a very easy way to distingues them. One is blue the other red for example...
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Ok, I will give it a try...
[attachimg=1]
if it will be possible to see anything the P ambigua is in the middle, the big specimens
[attachimg=2]
this is, if shown, from a Chinese flora, not Flora of China, P ambigua
[attachimg=3]
P turczaninovii drawing at the bottom in the center. I have forgotten which flora, either Flora of Russia or Flora of China? I couldnīt find the other herbarie specimens, I will post them when/ if I find them. Now I know we will get a long post from Olga with many herbarie specimens and she will prove that she is right and I am wrong about the Gothemburg picture. Looking forward to it!
[attachimg=4]
This I believe is P turczaninovii
[attachimg=5]
and this... If one read the floras and Aicheleīs taxonomy work ( fed rep 1957) one will find that they are both described as trepinnate but sometimes show bipinnate. The form of the radical leaves seems to vary quite a lot as well, with ovate or more lanceolate form, broader or more narrower pinnates. Oh, a mess..
I find ( what I believe is) my P turczaninovii very vigorous, as an answer to a Armin. It selfseeds a lot, but as I have so many Pulsatillas in the garden the seedling are not to be trusted.
Darren, I grow my P vernalis everywhere in the garden, in rockeris and in normal borders even in an old vegatable "border" with lots and lots of humus and nutritiens and no sand at all. I thought they would all die, but no problem with surviving but the steams get very long; it is not pretty at all. I live in what is more or less US zone 5 regarding winter coldness but with not very warm summers. Very rainy, though. Often bare frost in winter, could be down to -20 and no snow. Then suddenly heavy snow and the next week raining. It is quite difficult for many species, but P vernalis seems to thrive.
I even saw one on top of limestone garden, in full sun in Czech Republic. It did not look too happy, but was flowering. I will post a photo of a gorgoues plant but unfortunally it has already passet flowering.
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Oh, I am so sorry, when seeing the drawings I just posted in large I realize they are both from the Chinese flora. Neither Flora of Russia nor China then.
But look at this fantastic plant! I am sorry the flowers are way beyond itīs peak. I would have loved to see it when in full flower. But still, the plant is amazing. The seed is from La Thuile, northern Italy, which proves that the golden hair form exists both in Scandinavia and southern Europe. The plant is photographed at the top of a sand heap in Peter Kornīs garden here in Sweden, in rainy Gothenburg area. As it is one of the heaps at the bottom of his garden it might be one of the heaps with running cold water beneat it, but I am not sure about it. I counted to more than 40 flowers!
[attachimg1]
And what do you say about this very beautiful specimen? Breathtaking, isnīt it? The photo is taken by my friend Sachiyo Yuzawa. She grow all the difficult Asian species with great succes as you can imagen.
[attachimg=2]
Itīs a Pulsatilla sugawarii.
I am very proud of the only sugawarii that has survived my treatment and difficult winters. It has two small leaves. Perhaps I should not be that proud?
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Oh dear! What have I started :-X
Here is the plant label in Gothenburg Botanic Garden showing the origin of the seed which may help (or not).
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Susann I really sure I did post the right photos. :) The first two plants are from wild collected seeds. Other two images are from nature.
First picture is the same plant to second. Yes flowers and leaves grows together and when stems elongate you can see grown leaves. As you can see at the images from Altai. And if you look clearly you can see becoming lilac young pistills. ;) And yes sometimes even nodding flowers become open at the strong sun.
As both species are first distinguished by russian botanists think is more correct to turn to Krylov, Sergienko and Turczaninov's decription not to Chinese. According to Flora Siberia P. turczaninovii is trepinnate and P. ambigua is bipinnate. P.t. has nodding semi-open flower, P.a. has deflected perianth lobes. Seed arista is long at P.t. and shorter at P.a. etc.
You can see more pictures of P. turczaninovii made and discussed by russian botanists from different parts of country here
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/part/0/item/30935.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/part/0/item/30935.html)
and here
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/part/1/item/30935.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/part/1/item/30935.html)
I shown of course the most different plants of P. turczaninovii and P. ambigua. There are plants sometimes botanists can't clearly identify. Nature is richer than floras. ;)
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Oh dear! What have I started :-X
Roma you started a very interesting conversation. :)
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I found the herbarium plant. Look at the plants especially at the left one. At it's leaves.
(http://cs418820.userapi.com/v418820879/34b2/3jQk7dTTbUA.jpg)
And the length of the petals and stamens
(http://cs418820.userapi.com/v418820879/34aa/6rW3kDQlBHg.jpg)
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Great pictures Susann and Olga ! I am a Pulsatilla lover to ! :D
There are few reasons :
- Pulsatilla vulgaris stil grows in the wild in Belgium on a few places.
- Pulsatilla was one of my first alpines in the garden .
- The emblem from the Flemisch Rockgarden Society is a Pulsatilla
I enjoy this topic very much . Very interesting discussion also....
The only disadvantage when collecting Pulsatilla 's are the wrong names . I think many often there are plants that are sold with wrong names.
But nothing better to express the spring then Pulsatilla buds and flowers.
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The only disadvantage when collecting Pulsatilla 's are the wrong names . I think many often there are plants that are sold with wrong names.
Yes. As you can see many species are hard to identify. And also Pulsatillas hybridize easily. Once planted in one small garden species can give children with mixed signs.
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The plant I grew as turczaninovii (from Czech seed) was like several of the pictures with deepest-blue only partly opened flowers, and compact finely cut leaves. The picture on those websites show wonderful variation, particularly in colour - the pale pinks. It seems like pulsatillas just get more exciting the more you get to know about them! I always thought of patens as being North American; but how much more widely is it distributed? I haven't come across flavescens in the UK but I imagine there must be some who are growing it - it could gain the same legendary status as 'Budapest'.
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And back to images. :)
Susann, image of Pulsatilla sugawarii is outstanding! Wish one day I have the same plant... many same plants! :'(
The less attractive species is P. dahurica. But it is so nice in seeds! Its heads are long-haired!
(http://cs418831.userapi.com/v418831879/1626/1CoF-pvkPgc.jpg)
(http://cs10889.userapi.com/u6450879/31156622/y_dcef201a.jpg)
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I always thought of patens as being North American; but how much more widely is it distributed?
Tim, Pulsatilla patens is the next species which could be hot discussed. :) The center of it's group diversity is Siberia and close areas - Kazakhstan, south Urals, Altai. There are some subspecies of P. patens there - P. flavescens, P. multifida. They show wide color range as well.
The edges of P. patens spreading now are at the Europe and North America. I've never seen N. American type but saw a lot of European plants. They are mostly the same violet. You can find white very rare.
(http://cs1680.userapi.com/u6450879/92164489/x_3c806c8f.jpg)
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And the species which is confused in Europe again. Pulsatilla campanella.
The true species looks like this.
(http://cs885.userapi.com/u6450879/97775300/x_a9387645.jpg)
(http://cs10081.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_76b81ecc.jpg)
Sometimes it is brownish or violetish. :)
Some additional pictures.
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30894.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30894.html)
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Oh my goodness, how exciting this thread has become! Having nothing at all to contribute to the discussion, I can sit back and enjoy the outstanding pictures. I hope this conversation will carry on in Tabor. :D
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Dearest Olga and Pulsatillan friends: as I just checked the floras instead of doing the laundry ( the latter can wait until another day, canīt it) I have to admit that I was wrong this afternoon. Both Russian and Chinese floras and Galanin states that it is P ambigua not P turczaninovii that flowers in the same time as having leaves. I am truly sorry for my mistake. From now on, please do not trust anything I say!
Olga, perhaps we can plan a raid to Sachiyīs nursery and steal her sugawarii plant?
May I please be apologized for my mistake if I show these pictures? I will add a north American P patens; also known as P nutteliana or P ludoviciana.
[attachimg=1]
Pulsatilla campanella in itīs unusual violet form. :) As Olga and I discussed the other day, it blooms all summer long into autumn, not remonting but really blomming.
[attachimg=2]
Pulsatilla patens. This is the form, I believe, that many persons who is dreaming about P halleri `Budapestī confuses with the latter.
[attachimg=3]
Pulsatilla integrifolia x vernalis. Not so bad is it? It had the integrifolian leaves, but are now gone to Pulsatilla heaven. I only got this flower. P integrifolia is the former Miyakea integrifolia, endemic to Sakhalin island.
[attachimg=4]
Olga mentioned spring in the beginning when joining this thread. This species, P halleri ssp taurica is always the earliest one in my garden, often showing itīs buds in full winter, It is earlier than P vernalis in my garden. Although this picture was taken first days of April. The buds had been developing under the snow, I enjoyed them everytime "the old Lady Thaw" had wiped her brom over my garden trying to chase Mr Winter away.
[attachimg=2][attachimg=3][attachimg=4]
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My word, how lucky we are to have two such great photographers showing these super plants. All that beautiful fluffiness - it is just delicious, and so warming. :)
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Outstanding posts by all! Threads like this keep people coming back to the Forum. Keep up the good work!
AND, good gods, look at that P. sugawarii!
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Dear Susann, that's very good you started the dispute on P. turczaninovii. :) Hope we will continue after several years. And you know where we can do it. :-*
Olga, perhaps we can plan a raid to Sachiyīs nursery and steal her sugawarii plant?
Yes but I'd prefer to wait until it become full of seeds. :)
Pulsatilla campanella in itīs unusual violet form. :) As Olga and I discussed the other day, it blooms all summer long into autumn, not remonting but really blomming.
Is it the same to mine?
(http://cs5687.userapi.com/v5687879/8e8/X76jNSD2loc.jpg)
Look at this picture
(http://cs5687.userapi.com/v5687879/8f0/kQ9F9o78Ex4.jpg)
From left to right leaves of violet P. campanella, yellow P. campanella and P. albana. I can't find difference between first two ones. But what a difference in flower shape and color!
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Olga, I totally agree with you, the yellow flowered P Campanella is certainly not a P albana ssp albana. There are too much difference not only in leaves but flower shape and steam and there should be much more leaves at time of flower.
But this post is actually more for Tim. Please, cross your fingers, as I think I have some P patens ssp flavescens seedlings ( from wild collected seeds in Kazakstan) in the coldframes. If so, I could send you some in spring if you are interested?
[attachimg=1]
Pulsatilla patens ssp flavescens, seeds from Baikal area, the first one I showed I do not know the origin of.
[attachimg=2]
Another P patens ssp flavescens, seeds from Ural.
And have a look at this picture. Russia is not only home of yellow campanellas, but also the natural habitat of giraffe!( Together with Pulsatilla patens
[attachimg=3]
( But if I have to be honest the picture is actually taken in Kazakstan or Kyrgystan) Photo by the Swedish bicycling globetrotter STELLAN JOHANSSON
Here comes an interesting thing:
[attachimg=4]
The photographer is Dr TIMO IKONEN från Finland. He thinks it is a P patens x vernalis. Could it be? They belong to different subsections but the might grow in same areas. The leaves does not really look as the patens I have seen, when they have broader leaves they are usually palmate? I tend to believe it is a white form of P patens? P vernalis leaves does look as you know as on the picture but they use to have another segment of lateral leaflets added to it? And the stalks are very high? Letīs see what you say?
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And as we are into yellow: Olga showed a picture with leave of a P albana ssp albana. Here is an image of the yellow form. I think the correct name of the form is Pulsatilla albana ssp albana f sulphurea? But you also see it named as Pulsatilla albana ssp albana f flavescens and f lutea. In case you are not too familiar with latin and greek; they all mean "yellow". This year in a seedlist. I think it was the SRGC, actually, but if I am wrong I strongly apologize. Anyway, in a seedlist the species was named as Pulsatilla albana `Luteaī. That, at least I can say, is not correct. It is not a cultivar, it is a natural and common form of the very variable Pulsatilla albana. And if you do not grow it yet I have to add it is a very easy and longlived plant. You can grow it almost anywhere. At least I do.
More imformation if there is someone who does not know much about the albana. It has many subspecies; albana, armena, georgica and violacea. If ssp andina ( not to be confused with the Andes) excists I am not sure, some botanists say it does, some says it does not. By the way, albana belongs to the some subsection, Albanae, as P campanella and turczaninovii and ambigua. ( But Aichele puts ambigua as a ssp to turczaninovii in his work) Yes, it is a mess
Ok, here comes the picture:
[attachimg=1]
Here is another nice yellow species, the strictly European ( I think?) P alpina ssp apiifolia. I add some information about this one too, in case someone is not very familiar with it. You also see it named as P alpina ssp sulphurea but apiifolia is the correct name. It prefers a lower Ph, you can grow it in a peatblock ( but I also have it in the rockery and in the normal border). It is interesting, as the white P alpina normally is found in calcerous grounds. P alpina ssp apiifolia has a very strong steam, I think the English word might be rigid? Also the leaves are "hard" when touched.
[attachimg=2]
Now I leave the thread to someone else to continue. Iīm looking forward to see and learn more!
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Thanks for the marvelous images 8)
I'm now quite convinced the shy flowering plant I grow as P. turczaninovii is actual P.ambigua.
I'd like to add a photo of my hairiest pulsatilla P. halleri ssp.???
I'm still confused if it is ssp. halleri or ssp. rhodopaea (as the donated seed package said) or is it Pulsatilla styriaca?
Any good key to distinguish P. halleri ssp group?
I close, after all the violet, blue and yellow flowers, with my best red form P. vulgaris 'Rote Glocke'.
It is a pity the plant rotted during a wet summer :'(
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Just discovered this marvelous thread. Thank you so much for starting it, Susann, and for all your beautiful pictures. I have to admit to growing only the most common ones but do have the last one pictured, Pulsatilla Rote Glocke. It's so reliable despite our usually bad winters and it keeps blooming even after late snows. The color is also excellent. Pulsatilla halleri slavica is a beauty - so nice to have the flowers upturned.
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Susann - if there is an opportunity to try P. flavescens (or seed), I would jump at the chance! Just from a gardening viewpoint I don't know of hybrid pulsatillas, and presumably if they do occur in the wild it is highly likely they would be found in greater numbers than just one like that beautiful plant you picture (putative patens x vernalis - I would agree that it is a pale form of patens). But where plants have been 'split' into many potential species, but are really genetically very close it seems much more likely that more variation would occur, and that looks so with turczaninovii and allied species. I don't know with pulsatillas but when I have grown some other plants from wild collected seed there can be remarkable variation and it does begin to cloud the concept of a 'species' to some extent. But they are all extremely beautiful!
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Great Pulsatilla photos.
It encouraged me to go and see how my new seed from Josef Jurask was getting on. He had a good selection on his seed list his year. I think I bought most species he had but there might be some left for the quick few that are inspired by the photos. jurasekalpineATatlas.cz
Mine haven't germinated yet but they have only be sown a week or 2.
Susan
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Armin, perhaps this will help you with your halleri? It is in a language I think you will enjoy!
[attachimg=1]
If it is not readible this way, please send me a message and I will mail them to you. One of the images is upside down, I apoolgize for that but my scanner is very stupidly placed so I can not put the book into it as I wish. Perhaps someone knows how to turn a document before adding it and can tell me?EDIT_ pic turned!
[attachimg=4]
The scans are from Klaus Kaiserīs bok "Anemonen". There is a chapter about some of the Pulsatilla species, far from all though ( even if we skip the confusion with ssp and f and v being described as species in the litterature) I think he has just copied older floras in his descriptions, as some time the description is identical as far as I can see.
And Tim, unfortunally it is very difficult to understand when an English-speaking person talks ( or writes) but I think you are saying something like it is a mess trying to describe Pulsatillas from different localities as different species when it is really one and the same species but with a big natural variation? At least, that is my belief about this genus. And, no offence at all, but the Russians use much more species than the European does, we tend to say ssp or f or v, when they give them a species name.
Change of subject; Olga told me today she has found two Russians that put P turczaninovii as a ssp of vulgaris respective ssp of grandis. For me, grandis is a ssp itself. Why did I start this thread, we get more and more confused. (And as I think I wrote before, Aichele claims ambigua is a ssp of turczaninovii.)
But, what do we say about this strange species? ( Excuse the very bad pictures)
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
it is P kostyczewii, a very strange intermediar between Pulsatilla and Anemone. It has rhizomes, as no one else of the Pulsatillas have as far as I know, but still it appears to be more Pulsatilla than Anemone. ( But there is also a discussion to put Pulsatilla back into Anemone...) Oh, my..Why donīt we speak about Haquetia epipactis instead?
Olga, when you have got time, could you please add the beautiful darj said-to-be Pulsatilla bungeana ssp astragalifolia? I got one plant of that ssp and I was told that it had darkblue flowers, but mine does not have that broad lobes of the leaves as on the picture I am mentioning. My plant has very finely diveded lobes. I just have to wait and see. But still, it was collected close to Ulan-Baator so I do have some hope.
Now I realize the cake is burning in the oven. Off I run...
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Colleagues, can here these drawings will little help with an identification of your Pulsatilla.
These are illustrations to the classical work Flora of the USSR.
Colleagues, can here these drawings will little help with an identification of your Pulsatilla
Now in Russia there are some schools, which have different views on Pulsatilla classification. Who from them is right possibly can show the genetic analysis (excuse, I don't know as to call in English)
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Thanks for the marvelous images 8)
I'm now quite convinced the shy flowering plant I grow as P. turczaninovii is actual P.ambigua.
I'd like to add a photo of my hairiest pulsatilla P. halleri ssp.???
I'm still confused if it is ssp. halleri or ssp. rhodopaea (as the donated seed package said) or is it Pulsatilla styriaca?
Any good key to distinguish P. halleri ssp group?
I close, after all the violet, blue and yellow flowers, with my best red form P. vulgaris 'Rote Glocke'.
It is a pity the plant rotted during a wet summer :'(
Great Pulsatilla halleri Armin . :o Unglaublich ,Unwirklich ! I like the hairy character !
And I like the picture to , first class ...
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The information in this thread exemplifies the things that make this forum great. :) Wonderful pictures everyone.
I can contribute a couple from our own rock garden:
Pulsatllla alpina ssp apiifolia. As said above normally inhabits acid soil but is perfectly happy in our pH 7.7 on a limestone rock garden. It does seem to abort its flowers if our late winter and spring are not to its liking. Seedlings also do well. (Conversely ssp alpina dies out very quickly here despite being theoretically better suited to our limestone soil). Near it is the next picture which I think is P. pratensis ssp nigricans.
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I was thrilled this year, a very wet spring year, to have my first flower ever on P. alpina ssp apiifolia which I've tried from seed several times only to have them very slow to start with then die before maturing. This one grew quickly and had a single gorgeous flower. I didn't take a picture because a small something had eaten a hole in the bud which opened to all petals with the little hole. Next spring, and in a damper garden.....?
I'm finding this thread wonderfully exciting. Please continue with it Susann and Olga and everyone else too.
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It was mentioned, I think by Susann that one species had stems taller than she would expect for the species pictured and I wonder if this could be accounted for by natural variation, as Tim suggests or by climate. I am fortunate in growing and flowering P. vernalis quite well and regularly but always in the centre of a good bunch of greenery yet I have seen (here on the Forum and elsewhere), P. vernalis flowering seemingly from bare soil, almost no leaves showing at all. Always these plants are growing in MUCH colder climates than mine.
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It is rather exciting when you start lookiing at plants closely like this isn't it? Like a really good discussion over dinner. That last picture of Susann's is extraordinary and much more anemone-like than pulsatilla, I would have thought. But what of Anemone/Pulsatilla occidentalis? I would have said that was more pulsatilla-like than anemone, yet it now seems to be classified as the latter. The botanist has a harder time than the gardener, and whoever sees the plants in the field must get the best feel for species and distributions. I have a feeling there might be a lot more pulsatillas being grown as a result of this thread!
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Talking about yellows and albana group. My first P. albana is from Caucasus, Elbrus region.
(http://cs9807.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_397b03f9.jpg)
(http://cs1476.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_5f854b79.jpg)
Another one I grew from Czech seeds is white
(http://cs302512.userapi.com/v302512879/2d3b/OWzbmNQsCe0.jpg)
P. violacea is a violet-flowered species from the group
(http://cs4310.userapi.com/u6450879/97775300/x_a9d86bb4.jpg)
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P patens x vernalis. Could it be? They belong to different subsections but the might grow in same areas.
Picture doesn't open correctly to me and I can't see plant's leaves.
But the hybrid sometimes occurs at the regions where both species grow. Thats s a fact. Usually hybrid plants have strong brown vernalis hairs (instead of white patens) and leaves somewhat between two species.
I grow only ordinary vernalis.
(http://cs1819.userapi.com/u6450879/97775300/x_c9de278f.jpg)
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I was thrilled this year, a very wet spring year, to have my first flower ever on P. alpina ssp apiifolia which I've tried from seed several times only to have them very slow to start with then die before maturing. This one grew quickly and had a single gorgeous flower. I didn't take a picture because a small something had eaten a hole in the bud which opened to all petals with the little hole. Next spring, and in a damper garden.....?
Many times I tried seed of different ssp. of P. alpina. And like you Lesley I have only one plant. My experience is seedlings can not be transplanted. They die after root disturbing.
Although the plant was so hard to grow I do not like it very much. It looks more like Anemone or even Adonis. And it does not set fertile seed growing alone.
(http://cs406930.userapi.com/v406930879/33f5/KdNfTSKuBA8.jpg)
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Change of subject; Olga told me today she has found two Russians that put P turczaninovii as a ssp of vulgaris respective ssp of grandis. For me, grandis is a ssp itself. Why did I start this thread, we get more and more confused. (And as I think I wrote before, Aichele claims ambigua is a ssp of turczaninovii.)
Susann I promise you to investigate this detective story. :) I want to find where paratype is located and look at it and photograph. I suspect of a fault somewhere at the way from description to description.
P kostyczewii, a very strange intermediar between Pulsatilla and Anemone.
Wish it rooted as easy as anemones... No sucsess. :-\
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Quote from Susann
P kostyczewii, a very strange intermediar between Pulsatilla and Anemone.
Wish it rooted as easy as anemones... No sucsess. :-\
Susann, Olga, (or anyone else) can you tell something about your way of cultivating this species?
I had this plant as P. jarmilae from seeds collected by J. Halda. The plant flowered well and I had a nice big plant with many runners, but the plant died in winter. I had still one small plant in a plastic pot and I tried to root a runner, but I didnt succeed.
I heard from other people that they had the same experience. All their plants died, except the runners that rooted in the sand bed along their original pot.
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Susann, Olga, (or anyone else) can you tell something about your way of cultivating this species?
Jozef, I was not successful rooting runners. :-\ This is why I've never grown the species. I only saw it in Czech alpine houses. And I knew the same it goes well only in dry sand.
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But what of Anemone/Pulsatilla occidentalis? I would have said that was more pulsatilla-like than anemone, yet it now seems to be classified as the latter.
But that reclassification also takes all of Pulsatilla into Anemone (and Hepatica also ::) ) . It's the older classification that is now regarded as priority. Anemone pulsatilla and Anemone hepatica were the old names. It has not been completely sorted as the two genus pages in the Plant List take some into Anemone and leave some behind. Obviously some more work to do:
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=pulsatilla#Pulsatilla-O (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=pulsatilla#Pulsatilla-O)
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=hepatica (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=hepatica)
This is an excellent thread, thanks for all the contributions. It's a really good reference thread.
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Armin, perhaps this will help you with your halleri? It is in a language I think you will enjoy!
Susann,
thank you very much for the key for P. halleri. I will have to count the leaves points and overall leaf dimensions... :P
After all posts and comments my impression is that pulsatilla genus is as complicated as crocus genus and often confusing in the naming.
I hope one day a phylogenetic systematic analysis will be available for pulsatillas too, it will certainly help to clear up classification, speci, sub-species and variation status.
But for the time being I continue to enjoy any pulsatilla growing and flowering successfully in my garden and all the marvelous images on the forum ;D
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Many times I tried seed of different ssp. of P. alpina. And like you Lesley I have only one plant. My experience is seedlings can not be transplanted. They die after root disturbing.
Although the plant was so hard to grow I do not like it very much. It looks more like Anemone or even Adonis. And it does not set fertile seed growing alone.
I was luckier then you, Olga, with P.alpina ssp.alpina. Fresh seed gave nice germination and I had more than 50 seedlings (didn't know what to do with all of them, actually), so I wasn't very careful about transplanting them. I didn't have much space so they had to enjoy little room. Fortunately they didn't prove to be good guys. It took them 3 years (longer than for P.vulgaris) to reach flowering size, but now I have them flowering freely. My experience with the yellow ssp of P.alpina is the same as yours: a lot of fresh seed, erratic germination, dead young plants after transplanting
(http://cs406930.userapi.com/v406930879/33f5/KdNfTSKuBA8.jpg)
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Strange how folks have trouble with P. alpina ssp apifolia. It is one of the longest lived pulsatillas here, plants surviving 30 years or more, since it was called P. sulphurea ;D Eventually reaching a huge size and flowering reliably on mum's open day every year. Perhaps they like our cool summer.
Last year I saved some seed but left it lying around until the spring and then I got round to sowing it and all came up and were transplanted into plugs. They don't make very good selling plants as in the first year they only put up one large true leaf.
One plant was once dug from the garden (probabally close to flowering) and transfered into a washing up basin to be used in a display, it lasted in that bowl for 3-4 years before getting too tried to be used anymore and was given away. Lots of the roots left in the ground produced young plants and were then transfered no problem.
Oleg if you are over here again remind me and I will look for some plug plants ;)
Susan
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Strange how folks have trouble with P. alpina ssp apifolia. It is one of the longest lived pulsatillas here, plants surviving 30 years or more, since it was called P. sulphurea ;D Eventually reaching a huge size and flowering reliably on mum's open day every year. Perhaps they like our cool summer.
Last year I saved some seed but left it lying around until the spring and then I got round to sowing it and all came up and were transplanted into plugs. They don't make very good selling plants as in the first year they only put up one large true leaf.
One plant was once dug from the garden (probabally close to flowering) and transfered into a washing up basin to be used in a display, it lasted in that bowl for 3-4 years before getting too tried to be used anymore and was given away. Lots of the roots left in the ground produced young plants and were then transfered no problem.
Oleg if you are over here again remind me and I will look for some plug plants ;)
Susan
I recall seeing one in the Barr's garden in Penrith which was pretty much as you describe - very big. It actually looked like a peony from a distance.
A friend of ours once complained he could not obtain plants of this at all, only a few weeks after he had overlooked them when I had some young ones for sale - as you said, they don't look like much in year one.
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I have grown the same plant as Jozef for more than 10 years now and also from Halda seed listed as P. jarmilae. Only one seed germinated and that one plant has spread only by runners, never producing viable seed. I am very thankful for the comments by Susann as I have never found any information about this unique plant that I should now call P. kostyczewii (but never be able to pronounce). It is an aggressive spreader but not easy to propagate because the rhizomes are fairly deep and brittle, with very little root material. I tried to post a photo of the root system but it keeps being rejected as wrong type of file. I will keep trying but for now another photo of this plant in the landscape can be seen in class 3 of the 2012 AGS online show.
Edit by maggi to add Ken's photos- I hope!
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Ken, we have recently had a change to the file size permitted for forum attachments- they must now be 200Kb or less- but the same types are still accepted : doc, gif, jpg, pdf, png, txt
If you would like to send the photo to me by email I will try to get it posted for you..
Edit: Okay : look back at Ken's post again to see his photos added .....
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9988.msg264382#msg264382 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9988.msg264382#msg264382)
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Thank you all for so much information! Today my brain is not working correctly so I will have to re-read everything tomorrow to make sure I have understood correctly what you have written.
But, I do think P jarmilae is not a correct name, I think it is the same species meant as P kostyczewii? I have never got hold of it, wish I could though. But, I have heard from two succesful growers that the trick is to let it grow in the sand where the pots are plung? I have wondered why kostyczewii is placed in Pulsatilla but thought perhaps it is because of genetic studies, and it does have involucrate leaves as the Pulsatillaīs. But the rest is very much Anemone?
Regarding P alpina ssp apiifolia I am having the same problems as many has mentioned above. It germinates perfectly well, and survives the first and second winter in pots, but as soon as I try to sneak them out to the beds they say "thank you and goodbye". I only have three in the garden, but in different circumstances, so once the decide to survive the moving, they seem to agree with anything. I have seen beautiful huge specimens grown in peatblocks. I havenīt place any that way. Perhaps it is the trick? ( But tthe species is very Anemone-like so "hard".)
Tim, you wrote that Pulsatilla occidentalis was placed back into Anemone. I did not know that. But I have to reread what Diane wrote about it, I did not really understand.
And yes Leslie, I have the same experience with P vernalis. As I wrote earlier, I had some P vernalis in the vegetable land, they came out so ugly with long long flower stems. I really prefer the ones in the rockeries that has its flowers tight to the ground. I moved a long-stemed plant to one of the rockeries and it got very happy and behavied as its friends the next year with super-short stems.
Olga, regarding to what you told us about the patens x vernalis hybrids, it seems as Dr Ikonens picture is of a white patens then as we suggested?
Have anyone seen a P x hackelii? Itīs a hybrid between P patens x pratensis? I have red about it but newer seen any pictures. I have a plant that was given to me as P x hackelii, itīs origin is Gothenburg Botanical Garden. But it is not always the BG:s are correct? Has someone seen it/ grown it?
I add three pictures of it
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Finally here is a nice little darling. I think I wrote before that Pulsatillas hybridize so easily in the garden? Look at this one, it is like a perfect Pulsatilla pratensis that just happened to get red flowers instead of dark violet. But if I showed you a picture from distance you would spot the father of the plant, it is a P vulgaris Rote Glocken that was placed about 50 m away. Still, the "baby" is very very beautiful, isnīt it?
[attachimg=4]
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My seedling of alpina ssp. apiifolia flowered while still in its seed pot, two years old, from seed sent yo me by Forumist Cliff Booker, just the one germinated though. But I liked it very much indeed (apart from the insect holes). It was just as I'd expected, quite large, about 5cms across, wide open and a nice clear but soft yellow. I have seedlings about the same size, from another source, potted on and they too are doing all right so far.
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Oh, sorry, Ken C, I forgot to thank you for the very nice pictures and information about P kostyczewii!
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I have a feeling there might be a lot more pulsatillas being grown as a result of this thread!
I'm sure you're right Tim. I'll certainly be looking more carefully at Pulsatilla in all the seedlists :) Happily, there are many listed on our Biosecurity Index (permitted list) including the gorgeous flavescens, so I'll be able to try a few I'd overlooked before.
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Opposite to the white P. alpina subsp. alpina the yellow flowering subsp. apiifolia to my knowledge does not grow well on calciferous soil.
This might be the reason some forumist have success and others fail with it.
In my garden it failed (too calciferous). Maybe it is worth next time to try it with a peat block.
Susann,
I've no experieince with P x hackelii (patens x pratensis). Your image does not look very different to me what I grow as P. pratensis ssp. nigricans
The tiny red flowered hybrid is lovely and the combination with primula is ideal in my eyes. :)
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Susann,
Don't take DNA taxonomists and their lists too seriously.
I have wondered why kostyczewii is placed in Pulsatilla but thought perhaps it is because of genetic studies, and it does have involucrate leaves as the Pulsatillaīs. But the rest is very much Anemone?
It has seeds as Pulsatilla has.
Tim, you wrote that Pulsatilla occidentalis was placed back into Anemone. I did not know that. But I have to reread what Diane wrote about it, I did not really understand.
Pulsatilla occidentalis is the closest ally of Pulsatilla alpina. It is stupid to say that Pulsatilla occidentalis was placed back into Anemone. In reality, certain super-important taxonomist thinks that the genus Pulsatilla should be included as a whole in the genus Anemone. As a result, The Plant List contains the following comical and misleading information.
Pulsatilla grandis http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/tro-27102582 (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/tro-27102582) accepted
Pulsatilla turczaninovii http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/tro-27100131 (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/tro-27100131) accepted
Pulsatilla vulgaris http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2544139 (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2544139) synonym of Anemone pulsatilla
Not you, but the authors of The Plant List have problems with precise thinking.
I repeat for the thousandth that there don't exist accepted and non-accepted names in botany.
There merely exist names accepted in one particular botanical work, and names accepted in different works
are naturally different. And The Plant List is a stupid project.
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A gold-haired Pulsatilla vulgaris bud. I do not know the origin of the seeds but would really like to know if the white-haired and golden-haired appear in the same populations or if it is a geographical difference? Is there anyone who knows?
In the large population of Pulsatilla grandis at Brno gold-haired and silver-haired plants occur together,
greyish-blue flowered and dark violet-flowered, large-flowered and small-flowered.
You can come in the end of March, it is really a beauty.
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A perfect image of Pulsatilla kostyczewii in its natural habitat by nurdjen can be found
in Wikipedia. It is in public domain, nevertheless its url is certainly sufficient. Observe the substrate.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Pulsatilla_kostyczewii.JPG/1280px-Pulsatilla_kostyczewii.JPG (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Pulsatilla_kostyczewii.JPG/1280px-Pulsatilla_kostyczewii.JPG)
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Ken thank you very much for sharing photo of P. kostyczewii! The clump is outstanding! I'd like to have this weed in my garden. :)
Susann like Armin I do not see any difference from P. pratensis ssp. nigricans. If the plant is got from hybrid seed it could split back to parents species.
Information on yellow flowering subsp. apiifolia is very interesting. I heard it likes acid soils as well as caucasian P. sulphurea (is there any difference?).
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Why do we still ignore Pulsatilla vulgaris? :) The most widespread, the most vigorous, the most variable.
Susann, could you please show natural habit images?
Rote Glocke
(http://cs1374.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_40b3ec96.jpg)
Alba
(http://cs9807.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_e042e061.jpg)
Perlen Glocke
(http://cs10774.userapi.com/v10774879/86a/w4rV3h2cwnc.jpg)
And different colors of Papageno
(http://cs301108.userapi.com/v301108879/8f8/C1oRgAlPKSY.jpg)
(http://cs10081.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_21832e29.jpg)
(http://cs10081.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_df5c8dde.jpg)
(http://cs9312.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_58b690e2.jpg)
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Yes, vulgaris is such a good plant in the garden. I had a beautiful dwarf form grown from seed from Richard Bird, subsp. gotlandica, with deepest inky-violet flowers - one of my all time favourite plants and very like the small native version in the UK.
So while we are discussing these plants, how distinctive is P. rubra from vulgaris? You see this in seedlists quite often and for a long time I assumed it was a form of vulgaris like 'Rote Glocke'. I think gardeners and field botanists will often be aware of a lot more variation in these plants than taxonomists studying them in herbaria, and it must be difficult sometimes to reconcile this with Linnaean nomenclature. The ideal would be to look at populations over time, but no so easy!
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Hello all from a very wintery Kirriemuir we have had around 15cm snow today and more falling now this has given me a chance to look out some pictures from my garden to add to the most stunning pu;satilla pictures just made my day so thanks to all. I can only give names as I know them but do agree whatever they are supposedly now all Anemone, cheers Ian the Christie kind no 1 Pusatilla alba no 2 Pusatilla papagino no 3 Puls halleri alba no 4 Puls halleri no 5 Puls halleri var styriaca
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Another few, Ian. Puls Budapest seedling Puls albana Puls albana yellow
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Strange how folks have trouble with P. alpina ssp apifolia. It is one of the longest lived pulsatillas here, plants surviving 30 years or more, since it was called P. sulphurea ;D Eventually reaching a huge size and flowering reliably on mum's open day every year. Perhaps they like our cool summer.
Last year I saved some seed but left it lying around until the spring and then I got round to sowing it and all came up and were transplanted into plugs. They don't make very good selling plants as in the first year they only put up one large true leaf.
One plant was once dug from the garden (probabally close to flowering) and transfered into a washing up basin to be used in a display, it lasted in that bowl for 3-4 years before getting too tried to be used anymore and was given away. Lots of the roots left in the ground produced young plants and were then transfered no problem.
Oleg if you are over here again remind me and I will look for some plug plants ;)
Susan
thanks , Susan. Hope to be in Perth again. The seedlings I lost were from your seed. Thank you again for your offer
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I've only been away from the forum for a few days and this superb authorative thread with stunning pictures has arrived. I feel I can just look at the pictures again and again. In particular, Olga and Susann have increased our knowledge and appreciation of the Genus. A number of contributions have raised issues I could contribute on, sharing my ignorance.
Many people have difficulties with P.alpina apifolia; I have only tried once and not had great success. Grown from seed coming from the Auvergne, it gradually increased, eventually flowered (after about 5years); not the most impressive flower, the next year it failed to flower, after that it never came up.
I am interested though that successful plants are described as large; because I believe there is a huge difference in the size of the plants in the wild. I have heard others mention this. I have looked through my old photos, and find most of my pictures from the alps are quite small; whereas plants from Andorra were much bulkier - comparable with Susan's huge plants.
I will add a few pictures - apologies that most of them are scans of old prints.
The Auvergne plant is in the garden, the rest in the wild, St. Anton and Grindlewald quite small, Bergamesque alps a bit larger, but nothing like the Andorra plant, which almost felt like a different species.
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So while we are discussing these plants, how distinctive is P. rubra from vulgaris? You see this in seedlists quite often and for a long time I assumed it was a form of vulgaris like 'Rote Glocke'. I think gardeners and field botanists will often be aware of a lot more variation in these plants than taxonomists studying them in herbaria, and it must be difficult sometimes to reconcile this with Linnaean nomenclature. The ideal would be to look at populations over time, but no so easy!
Thanks Tim for this introduction into the biggest problem I have in this genus.
The confusion comes from the fact that Pulsatilla vulgaris RUBRA is completely different from Pulsatilla rubra. The first is a lovely brick red form of P. vulgaris that I used to grow in my previous garden. This is often what you get when you get seed labelled Pulsatilla rubrain the exchanges. Pulsatilla rubra comes from France, and is described as a reddish-brown flower, rather like Pulsatilla pratensis. Some books describe it as not very impressive.
My question is - what is the plant I have got. I have put this picture on the forum before - but I must take some pictures of the leaves. The seeds from which this plant grew were collected in the Cevennes, the home of P.rubra. The leaves are much finer than the typical leaves of P.vulgaris. I must check sometime if they are two or three pinnate. The flowers are glorious -
judge for yourselves.Any views? Maybe I should dig through the snow, and have a closer look at the leaves!
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Dear Peter, you write you have only been away for some days from the forum. I would like to say; I have only been away for 24 hours, and so much interesting information. First of all, thank you everybody for all beautiful pictures. The ones from nature especially interesting of course. And very interesting information about size of the apiifolia in nature. The garden ones I have seen ( except my struggling ones) has all been huge. It is quite common in Swedish gardens.
And thank you Josef for telling us that the difference are the seeds ( kostyczewii). That explains it. I red Flora of China yesterday ( floras are lovely bed-table books) and was going to add itīs description of the species, but now I skip it if someone does not ask for it? But it also says that kostyczewii does not have staminodes as I believe all other Pulsatillas has?
The Pulsatilla I received as P x hackelii does look very much as P pratensis ssp nigricans ( = ssp bohemica), but it differs in appearance from all the ones I have sown-different sources- as to be the latter. Involucrate leaves are more pinnate and stems are ticker and the appearance is more discursive ( google translate.) But I have now looked at all my photos from Czech gardens and I have seen plants with the same thick stems on some of these as well. Once again, very variable in the nature I guess, and not a P x hackelii that was given to me. The Swedish form of P pratensis is very beautiful as well, it is more reddish brown.
[attachimg=1]
This is the one received from Gothenburg BG as x hackelii
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
And here are two from the garden ( Seeds received as P pratensis ssp nigricans)
I end this picture series with a beautiful bud of P pratensis ssp nigricans. I have turned the image upside down because it looks more beautiful this way.
[attachimg=4]
Ian, lovely picture of the P halleri ssp styriaca. I can not resist counting the flowers of my oldest plants, and it is not unusual well over 40 flowers in the same plant. Both of P halleri and others ( and vulgaris of course, Olga. Habitat pictures to be posted separatly)
Gothenburg Botanical garden has a specimen they claim is P rubra ( I have only seen the true species in pictures) with very finely pinnate leaves, but the flower color is very violet ( light violet). You can see the collection label in the lower left corner. I showed it to curator Henrik Zetterlund and he said it was correctly? In the descriptions it is said to be reddish brown or dull reddish brown? By the way, it is described in Spanish floras as growing there as well.
[attachimg=5]
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Olga asked me to show some habitat pictures of P vulgaris. I live in the outskirts of the "southern highlands" of Sweden, I would guess the pictures are from locals around 200 m above sea level, so talking about alpines we would say lowlands. Summer are not very hot. +24-25 at itīs most, with a peak during few days reaching +27-27. Autumn is very rainy and winter brings us rain and snow, barefrost with -20, back and forth, until snow comes to stay around middle-end of January. Snow melts between middle of March-middle of April. So the flowering time can differ with one month. Spring is usually quite nice.
I have many times heard of people being chased by stray dogs when on expeditions. I can by own experience tell you that being chased by young bulls is not fun either. One feel very small! There was a sign "warning, grazing bulls" but I honestly interpreted it as I had to be respectful to them; not disturbing them when eating (Yes, I am a city-girl, and a very stupid one). Now I know that the warning was actually meant for me.
The bull locality is overcrowded with P vulgaris plants, but as a difference to all Russian pictures I see of big clumps of P patens, these plants only have one, perhaps two flowers each. Seeds from them grown in garden are as big and willing to flower as any vulgaris.
[attachimg=1]
The other locality is not that crowded but still the plants offers only one or two, perhaps three flowers to the beholder.
[attachimg=2]
The picture below is from the calcareous island of Gotland in the Baltic sea. As you can see it is a Pulsatilla pratensis ssp pratensis. It is very common on the island and also grows in the southern mainland. Gotland is home of the endemic P vulgaris ssp gotlandica, that someone ( Ian?) mentioned above. ( In Sweden we have P vulgaris and P vernalis and a few P pratensis in the south of the mainland, and P patens in the province of Ångermanland think center of the length of the country- and island Gotland. And as I just mentioned, P vulgaris ssp gotlandica and P pratensis in the island as well)
[attachimg=3]
The last image is from outside my village, at 175 m a s. There used to be a huge number of plants of P vernalis, but now there are only three plants left. They set viable seeds, but as the moss has become so thick due to the trees grown big and giving dark shadow, the seeds has difficulties to reach the ground. I found it interesting that Olga told me that whenever she has seen P vernalis in Russia it has been happily growing in pine forest.
[attachimg=4]
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Ok, something went wrong ( Can not have been me, must have been the the wonder of technology :))
The picture meant to be the last was added as first instead, so the order is like this:
The first picture that show is the P vernalis locality
The secondis the dangerous Bull Locality of P vulgaris
The third is P vulgaris in the not too crowded locality
and finally the P pratensis in the island
Sorry for the mistake...
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Gothenburg Botanical garden has a specimen they claim is P rubra ( I have only seen the true species in pictures) with very finely pinnate leaves, but the flower color is very violet ( light violet). You can see the collection label in the lower left corner. I showed it to curator Henrik Zetterlund and he said it was correctly? In the descriptions it is said to be reddish brown or dull reddish brown? By the way, it is described in Spanish floras as growing there as well.
Susann, This plant seems to be the same as my "P.rubra". (above) It is nice to have Gothenburg agree with you. The leaves on your photo seem exactly the same as the leaves on my plant - So I won't have to dig through the snow to look for the dead leaves on mine!
It is interesting that both of us have plants from the same sort of area which do not really agree with the text book description.
In England Pulsatilla vulgaris grows on chalk and Limestone grassland, in places where it never sees the plough; it has become very rare in the last century or so. The places I know of it are: very steep Chalk scarps, Prehistoric earthworks on chalk, and long disused mediaeval Limestone Quarries.
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So I won't have to dig through the snow to look for the dead leaves on mine!
I am happy that you did not have to dig in the cold snow. I thought it might look the same. But, do you really think it is correctly namned? I have seen descriptions of P rubra with the adding of `serotinaīas if it would be a cultivar? But still, the color of the flowers?! Here are three links with pictures from nature, two from France and one from Spain.
http://www.iberianwildlife.com/picos-europa/wild-flowers-picos-europa.htm (http://www.iberianwildlife.com/picos-europa/wild-flowers-picos-europa.htm)
http://crdp.ac-besancon.fr/flore/Ranunculaceae/especes/agrandissement/loupe_pulsatilla_rubra1.htm (http://crdp.ac-besancon.fr/flore/Ranunculaceae/especes/agrandissement/loupe_pulsatilla_rubra1.htm)
http://www.groupemycobotacourslaville.fr/sorties-2011/ (http://www.groupemycobotacourslaville.fr/sorties-2011/)
Change of subject: nobody has spoken about the legendary Pulsatilla integrifolia ( former Miyakea integrifolia), I only showed a picture of my hybrid with P vernalis in the beginning of this thread. Is there not anyone who has beautiful pictures of flowering P intergrifolia? If there is someone who has not come across this stunning plant yet, I show a picture of why it is called "integrifolia".
[attachimg=1]
There is also a short article about the species in IRG some years ago.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Dec261293381708IRG_12_December.pdf (http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Dec261293381708IRG_12_December.pdf)
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Susanna, thanks for the great photos. Colleagues, thank you for the interesting ideas and discussion :)
Some of my photos of different species Pulsatilla ...
Pulsatilla patens, wild plants, Voronezh region
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Pulsatilla pratensis, Voronezh region
[attachimg=3]
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Pulsatilla taurica_Pulsatilla Halleri, Ukraine, Crimea
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
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Pulsatilla vernalis, seedling, my garden
[attachimg=1]
Pulsatilla violacea, Caucasus
[attachimg=2]
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Peter, thank you very much for posting different P. alpina images. The plants look really like different species you are right.
As for P. rubra I have one plant and now I am looking for pictures in my archives. It has red flowers and leaves more finely divided than P. vulgaris.
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In the descriptions it is said to be reddish brown or dull reddish brown?
That's confusing. If the species is close to P. vulgaris it could hybridize easily. And plants grown from garden seed couldn't be clear.
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I red Flora of China yesterday ( floras are lovely bed-table books) and was going to add itīs description of the species, but now I skip it if someone does not ask for it? But it also says that kostyczewii does not have staminodes as I believe all other Pulsatillas has?
Dieas Flora of China includes P. kostyczewii? If my memory isn't wrong the species is an endemic of one Kyrgyzstan valley.
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Olga asked me to show some habitat pictures of P vulgaris.... P pratensis ... P vernalis
Susann, thank you very much for pictures. I remember the story with cows. :)
That's very interesting the same species grow sometimes in different conditions.
P. vulgaris and P. vernalis are remained in Russia only in S.-Petersburg area. P. patens also grows there. P. patens grows in light pine forests. P. vernalis lives in dark forests with pines and firs in deep moss.
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Change of subject: nobody has spoken about the legendary Pulsatilla integrifolia ( former Miyakea integrifolia), I only showed a picture of my hybrid with P vernalis in the beginning of this thread. Is there not anyone who has beautiful pictures of flowering P intergrifolia?
Susann, I can show the picture of flowering plant but plant is not mine. :-\
The plant is legendary and I have a lot of questions on it. And the first is: where to get seed? :)
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P. vernalis S.-Petersburg area
(http://cs9807.userapi.com/u6450879/109670728/x_5d174c80.jpg)
(http://cs9807.userapi.com/u6450879/109670728/x_5fdb1c26.jpg)
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Natural habitat of P. vernalis in S.-Petersburg area. My friends are making images. :)
(http://cs418820.userapi.com/v418820879/35a3/aCdtNixO4wI.jpg)
Natural habitat of P. patens in S.-Petersburg area.
(http://cs418820.userapi.com/v418820879/35ab/3QBYpkE-PLs.jpg)
Natural habitat of P. patens in Moscow area.
(http://cs418820.userapi.com/v418820879/35b3/XFvJIkNN0Ng.jpg)
(http://cs418820.userapi.com/v418820879/35bb/JHMaspTWjX4.jpg)
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Miyakea integrifolia
(http://www.plantarium.ru/dat/plants/3/307/85307_38b840ac.jpg)
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My plants of P. rubra. It's grown from not wild collected seed. I am not sure it's true. But it's red. :) And some seedlings were violet like P. vulgarus. It is smaller and not as vigorous as (http://P. vulgaris). And it's leaves are more finely divided.
(http://cs418820.userapi.com/v418820879/35c3/DL8y5pUxllA.jpg)
(http://cs4289.userapi.com/u6450879/92164489/x_5a508bbe.jpg)
It's seed.
(http://cs418820.userapi.com/v418820879/35d3/7YbFcHwaj-U.jpg)
And it's leaf at the top left
(http://cs10623.userapi.com/u6450879/97775300/y_f7092a77.jpg)
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Thank you Nathalia for beautiful pictures. The ones from nature are always the most interesting.
Dieas Flora of China includes P. kostyczewii? If my memory isn't wrong the species is an endemic of one Kyrgyzstan valley.
Yes, Olga, I have red the same information about P kostyczewii at internet as you have ( a Russian forum)), so I believed the same, but yes, it is described in the big official "Flora of China".
Olgaīs P vernalis buds looks like cute small mushrooms in the shape!
Now we just have to get to the very heart of this topic. Does anyone have experiences of growing P ajanensis, P taraoi, P magadanensis or P tatewaki ( my personal favorite)? At least tatewakii I think many of you have grown, right? I have killed many P sugawarii and P taraoi ( plants) , not mentioning P occidentalis. The latter germinates so good and then it says "Oh, was it you? Well, goodbye then". Anyone having succes with it, not living in the area of its natural habitat? I am very interested in hearing about growing experiences of these species.
And, is there anyone who has got a source of seeds of these beautiful species?
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Wonderful pics, everyone.
Coming back to P.rubra, I believe Olga's plant is true. Everything coincides with the description and pictures from France and Spane which have been posted. Here are some off-springs of Olga's plants. ( Sorry, I can't post pictures as all of them taken last year are more than 200 KB). Will try to find earlier pictures.
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Susann,
Try http://www.alplains.com/ (http://www.alplains.com/) for american P. patens and occidentalis, he lists it as Anemone occidenalis.
Susan
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Yes, Olga, I have red the same information about P kostyczewii at internet as you have ( a Russian forum)), so I believed the same, but yes, it is described in the big official "Flora of China".
That could be true. Kyrgyzstan has a border with China. And the valleys can be of the same conditions.
Now we just have to get to the very heart of this topic. Does anyone have experiences of growing P ajanensis, P taraoi, P magadanensis or P tatewaki ( my personal favorite)?
You know I have had. :-\ I grew P. ajanensis and P. magadanensis from seed. The first one died 2 years old. The second lived for 5 years but didn't bloom.
P. ajanensis
(http://cs418820.userapi.com/v418820879/35cb/GOHG51hdYKk.jpg)
P. magadanensis
(http://cs9807.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_abea2051.jpg)
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Coming back to P.rubra, I believe Olga's plant is true. Everything coincides with the description and pictures from France and Spane which have been posted. Here are some off-springs of Olga's plants. ( Sorry, I can't post pictures as all of them taken last year are more than 200 KB). Will try to find earlier pictures.
Thank you Oleg. I am not as sure as you. :) I become very careful with seed of garden origin.
Now I try to isolate the plants and to get pure seed.
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thank you Susan for the link to Alplains. I am sorry to tell you that I have already killed uncountable seedlings of P occidentalis from Alplains. The American P patens does well in my garden, but I have not understod what P occidentalis wants.( P alpina does well, though. But that is of no help of course.)
Do you grow P occidentalis, can you give some information of how you grow it? Perhaps I can translate your experiences into Swedish circumstanses.
You know I have had. :-\ I grew P. ajanensis and P. magadanensis from seed.
Sorry Olga, I had totally forgotten that you had tried P ajanensis. And, your P magadanensis is still bigger than mine. It has only two leaves after two years.
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I tried to grow these species:
P.ajanensis ascended and grows within 4 years, but it is very small and does not tolerate hot weather, never bloomed;
P. magadanensis - I managed to get good germination, but the year was hot and the plants died;
P taraoi - the seeds were not very good quality, only one seed germinated, the plant is very weak.
Susann, the behavior of seedlings P occidentalis from Alplains, IMHO, similar behavior of seedlings P. magadanensis ...
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But, do you really think it is correctly namned? I have seen descriptions of P rubra with the adding of `serotinaīas if it would be a cultivar? But still, the color of the flowers?! Here are three links with pictures from nature, two from France and one from Spain.
.pdf[/url]
Susann, that Spanish Plant is a stunner; The French plants are more what I was expecting!
If we exclude for a moment the colour of the flowers - they are quite like the Gothenburg plant and my plant.
Olga, the leaves on your plant look just like the leaves on my plant. You plant looks right to me, though I accept your doubts about plants of cultivated origins.
It seems either that the colour of the flower is not diagnostic, and P.rubra could be blue/violet/red/brown / almost black; or that there are two closely related plants growing in that part of France.
None of these plants are P. vulgaris, although the blue/violet ones look quite like it.
My plants of P. rubra. It's grown from not wild collected seed. I am not sure it's true. But it's red. :) And some seedlings were violet like P. vulgarus. It is smaller and not as vigorous as (http://P. vulgaris). And it's leaves are more finely divided.
Olga, the wild P. vulgaris in England is much smaller than the cultivated forms, very similar in size to these cf.P.rubra plants. The ones I have seen usually only have one flower per plant.
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And what about Pulsatilla montana? Is this a recognised name? I have had a plant for maybe 20 years under this name and the plant is smallish compared, say, with P. vulgaris, and the flowers are less open than many shown here and always a deep, crimson red. It's looking rather battered now and I hope I can save it as we move.
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Susann, sorry I don't grow P. occidentalis. I have been concentrating mainly on bulbs recently but am going back into producing alpines again so am going to try pusatillas.
The picture of the Andorra P. alpina sulphurea looks like the one in cultivation here
Great thread for inspiration :)
Susan
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Coming back to P.rubra, I believe Olga's plant is true. Everything coincides with the description and pictures from France and Spane which have been posted. Here are some off-springs of Olga's plants. ( Sorry, I can't post pictures as all of them taken last year are more than 200 KB). Will try to find earlier pictures.
Here is Oleg's P. rubra
[attachimg=1]
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I have gone from never attending to the forum to not being able to resist it..."Might there be some new information added?"..."just a quick glimpse, alright?"
And what about Pulsatilla montana?
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Yes, Lesley. There is an European specie,s or would we rather say a group or complex, with much confusions that is named P montana. I sowed it for first time last year, some of seedlings flowered in late summer but showed nodding violet flowers. It was wildcollected seeds. They look a lot like on this link: http://www.floralpin.de/engl/alpine-plants-p/pulsatilla-ranunculaceae/pulsatilla-montana.php (http://www.floralpin.de/engl/alpine-plants-p/pulsatilla-ranunculaceae/pulsatilla-montana.php)
I was quite disappointed as I was hoping for a more reddish violet color. But they do seem to vary a lot in color. I can bring you some seedlings if you wish, in case your more beautiful one decides it does not appreciate being moved at itīs old age. And, you mentioned another species before that you were allowed to bring back? What was it?
Susann, sorry I don't grow P. occidentalis.
Thank you for your answer Susan, and let me say I am sorry too you do not grow it. I would really like to understand how to succeed. They germinate so good every year, get its first charactaristic leaves -coming under the cotyledon leaves- and then dies or at most dies after getting the second leave. Perhaps I should not prick them out but do like with the apiifolias and keep them undisturbed? (But the apiis dies for me when planted out in garden, so the result is actually the same, just with one or two years of delay)
I hope for someone else giving us some succeesful advises on P occidentalis. And P ajanensis and...
Today I add some pictures of how it looks when the plants themselves has not succeeded . In this case with producing viable seeds. Perhaps there is someone of you that have not put attention to the difference to normal seeds before?
[attachimg=1]
This is P dahurica,. Olga has showed a picture of feeded seed head before. If you do not remember it, here is a picture of it:
[attachimg=2]
Happy P dahurica
[attachimg=3]
I think this was from a P pratensis, I am not sure
[attachimg=4]
And this last one is a sad European P patens
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The above two pictures (the last two) look like a bad hair day, or otherwise, a no seed day! :)
Susann, thank you for your offer of seedlings, but no, we may not bring home any live plants at all, but there are many seeds we can bring and have sent. Some of these are Pulsatillas and I'll be in touch privately about them. Natalia has also very kindly offered me seed, including of the lovely P. flavescens.
It is the big sadness of my Czech trip that I won't be able to bring home any plants at all but because of that, money will be spent on shoes probably. ;D
My P. montana looks very like Oleg's rubra, the one Maggi posted, perhaps a little deeper coloured, but a pure red, not violet. The shape is right too though the leaves, I can't tell. Mine doesn't have many at present. I must try and resurrect it and take better care and get some seeds hopefully. Seeds in the past have proven true to colour.
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Pulsatilla patens in the wild, southern Minnesota, USA.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Habitat: Stabilized sand dunes in the Mississippi River bottoms. Mere bluffs in the background. Minnesota has no mountains!
[attachimg=4]
More photos here:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=67.msg1223#msg1223 (http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=67.msg1223#msg1223)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The SRGC photo resizer is so easy to use!
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Rick, thank you very much for the images! USA P. patens looks like our siberian white P. patens or P. multifida.
I grow some plants under the name of P. montana. But I am not sure they are tru.
(http://cs1374.userapi.com/u6450879/20107304/x_c9d99e19.jpg)
(http://cs4289.userapi.com/u6450879/92164489/x_e7c4e08c.jpg)
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Lovely plants anyway, Olga.
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Pulsatilla patens in the wild
thank you for beautiful pictures and interesting information, Rick! It is so good to be able to see the plants in their natural habitat.
I grow some plants under the name of P. montana
Olga! This was what I expected to get, but as I wrote, mine seem to be violet. But it is only a few of them that has flowered yet. And yes, you are right, as I am sure you already know. The Northamerican P patens ( also know as P nutteliana or P ludoviciana) is sometimes refereed to as P multifida as the Russian species P patens ssp multifida. I donīt know if to call this genus an interesting one or just a messy one?
You asked us some days ago to show pictures of P vulgaris, you did not like that we were neglecting it. Here is a cultivar.
[attachimg=1]
itīs P vulgaris `Heilerīthat comes in many colors. As usual it is very likely it also has an English cultivar name. I am sorry the picture is a little blurry.
[attachimg=2]
I use to start my Pulsatillas in the basement under nursery lamps as soon as I get the seeds, in November- January. They all germinate well without previous stratification. With this I gain one year. Occacional plants flower in the end of first summer and the rest ( or most of the rest) flower the spring after that. The plants are compact and look healthy. I use two lamps of 400 W, the light is more yellow than daylight as you can see. I do not remember where it is in the lumen scale, but not too far from 8000 I think? Added to that I have a 125 W lamp. Under that I only put the plants I do not care that much about.
[attachimg=3]
You often hear that P vernalis does not do in pots. I think I do not agree to that statement as you can see. My experience is that they seem to have no problem during several winters in pots in the coldframes without any upper protection. I have also moved P vernalis plants, fullgrown ones, from one place to another, from border to rockery, from one rockery to another with differnt soil mix and position towards the sun, and still, no problem. I do not know about other countries, but at least here in Sweden you always hear it is impossible to move a P vernalis plant. I do not think that is correct.
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Susann, you are growing those vernalis as easily as little weeds! :o 8)
In the basement- so many pots ! Is that the basement that recently became a swimming pool? :-\ :-X :'(
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Is that the basement that recently became a swimming pool?
.
Yes Maggi, you are correct. This is the room that was transformed into a swimmingpool last summer. This winter there is no "nursery" as I have still not cleaned the room after the disaster. ( Thinking about it, I really have had some bad luck lately, I had forgotten about the flood)
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Susann, you certainly have quite a collection! Do you grow other genera than backsippor?
Here are some P vernalis from my mountain cabin:
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Two more
No, just one. I get the message that my file is too large although the pictures are smaller than those attached already?
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And one P flavescens from the Botanical garden in Oslo:
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More Pulsatilla patens, this time from relatively-undisturbed grasslands in Calgary and in the eastern foothills:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=67.0 (http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=67.0)
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[quote
I grow some plants under the name of P. montana. But I am not sure they are tru.
Well I'm not sure about my montana either. I don't remember now but I expect it was from AGS or SRGC seed, but could have been 30 years ago! Or more!
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Trond - that picture of P. flavescens must be the one I remember before. That softest-blue cast on the reverse of the tepals takes the breath away. No wonder alpine gardeners love pulsatillas so much.
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Trond, how nice to find you here!
Do you grow other genera than backsippor?
Yes, I promise I do grow a lot of different plants. I just happen to get interested in the Pulsatillas as the genus is so complex and confusing. And, of course, they are very beautiful.
I collect and cross european Hepaticas for example and I like small Penstemons a lot and...well, almost everything. Unfortunally, bulbs and I do not get along very well. I do not think I can blame the bulbs for that.
Thank you Trond and Lori for all interesting pictures of natural habitats, it is very interesting.
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Here are Trond's resized photos, they were above the new 200Kb limit.
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Thank you Maggi! I see I haven't done my homework properly. I only shrunk the pictures a little more than I used to to ::)
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Not to worry, I was doing the same thing myself last week, Trond :-[
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Beautiful pictures Trond! And the plants seem to be golden haired as the ones from the seeds I got from Norway. The name of the place of the origin of seeds slightly, perhaps very slightly, remainds of Jötul? ( Excellent Norwegian cast iron stoves for those who does not know it). Can you remember if the color of the revers of the flowers was that pinkish? I have only seen it more like violet or violet-brownish. Or might it be the camera?
I will add some more pictures, of varied origin and character. (I will soon have to go to a big Pulsatilla collection if I wish to contribute with more pictures in this thread.) I am still hoping that someone might have experience and photos of P ajanensis, or beautiful P tatewakii? But all pictures and experiences are interesting to read about or look at.
I begin with a beautiful garden hybrid. It is not a P aurea or P alpina ssp apiifolia as one might think at a first quick glimpse. My thoughts goes to P alpina ssp alpina f flavescens contributing with leaves form and color of flower? The species is very variable in itself, but these flowers are really upright and with a very round and nice shape. I think it differs too much from what is expected? Also, the plant is taller than what I have seen in P albana. ( No, Olga, I have of course not seen it in nature)
[attachimg=1]
Next one is a P albana ssp albana, one of my favorites. The absolute favorite among the European species. I know I have shown a close-up of a flower just to open before. But this time it is a study of a plant, isnīt it beautiful with the different colors of the flowers? The seed is from 2000 m somewhere in the extent Caucasus. It is not of much information, I know.
[attachimg=2]
This one is the Swedish endemic from the island of Gotland, a ssp to P vulgaris. P vulgaris ssp gotlandica. The seed is wild-collected. I am sorry I have no good picture of the whole plant. Perhaps someone else have? Gotland, in the Baltic sea, is mostly calcareous. And does not have any gnats, which is good not only for us but also for manyIislandic horses that develops allergics to gnats when arriving to Sweden. (That was the strange fact of the day)
[attachimg=3]
Finally some leaves; first of the Swedish P patens, very palmate as you can see. The flower is always dark violet in Sweden. Wild collected seed from the province of Ångermanland.
[attachimg=4]
And second leaves of two differnt forms of P patens collected somewhere in Central Asia. The leaves to the right are sometimes refeered to as P patens ssp (or f) trisecta.
[attachimg=5]
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Beautiful pictures Trond! And the plants seem to be golden haired as the ones from the seeds I got from Norway. The name of the place of the origin of seeds slightly, perhaps very slightly, remainds of Jötul? ( Excellent Norwegian cast iron stoves for those who does not know it). Can you remember if the color of the revers of the flowers was that pinkish? I have only seen it more like violet or violet-brownish. Or might it be the camera?
Thank you, Susann! Your pictures aren't bad either! I have taken a close look at them!
I did visit Gotland some years ago but too late for the Pulsatilla display. However we did see lots of orchids ;)
My plants are from the Dovre area. Although P vernalis (mogop) was very common in the area where I have my mountain cabin the species disappeared several years ago due to picking. I have started reintroducing it on our acreage where they are grown as natural as possible. I think the pictures show the true colour of the flowers.
Maybe the origin of your plants is Jotunheimen? I have seen mogop there (it's a huge mountainous area though).
here is where I try to increase the population of mogop:
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Hoy, Susan, beautiful plants!Some more photos
I collected seeds in expeditions:
Pulsatilla ambiqua
[attachimg=1]
Pulsatilla dahurica
[attachimg=2]
and well-known cultivar - Pulsatilla Rote Gloke
[attachimg=3]
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Oh, I am so happy that someone has brought life into this thread again!
But may I please ask you -without wanting to offend you- are you sure your P dahurica is a true one? I have only seen them with rather small flowers that are whitish inside and with slightly different involucrate leaves? ( Not so pinnate). But I have not seen them in wild of course, but I have got wild collected seeds in various occations and the seedlings has all been looking similar to each other? However, Dr Alexandra Berkutenko has in her book of Magadan a picture of a plant with a very dark oblong flower and very thin involucrate leaves, claiming it is a P dahurica. But I have never seen plants like that in reliable sites in internet or anywhere in the floras? Is there anyone who knows more about their variability in wild? Olga for example, have you gone into hibernating?
I add some pictures of the form that I have come to know. The first image is not mine; it is from an official Chinese site.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
This one and the bud below are from different seed collections in wild, but they look similar to each other.
[attachimg=3]
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Susann, I understand, it is difficult to you to find a reliable source in the Internet. I can offer you quite worthy Russian site - plantarium - http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30897.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30897.html)
You can see that the Pulsatilla daurica has variations.
And also the photo from a site the nature of Baikal, defined by biologist Nadezhda Stepantsova, it is the expert on Siberian Pulsatilla.
http://nature.baikal.ru/phs/ph.shtml?id=63851&ref=phs/plant (http://nature.baikal.ru/phs/ph.shtml?id=63851&ref=phs/plant)
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Is there anyone who knows more about their variability in wild? Olga for example, have you gone into hibernating?
I add some pictures of the form that I have come to know. The first image is not mine; it is from an official Chinese site.
Susann Chinese P. dahurica looks true. Of course it is variable and sometimes can be confused with P. cernua. And do not forget about natural hybridizing.
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...And since you want a brieth of live. :)
Seeds of this pulsatilla I received as P. ambigua f. alba. As you can see it is not alba and of corse it is not ambigua. Which species could it be?
(http://cs1819.userapi.com/u6450879/97775300/x_6660ac2a.jpg)
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Beautiful picture, Olga! One wanst to put it in a crib and treat it as the treasure it is, not letting it open more. It is really hairy. Could P halleri ssp taurica be involved? Not if it was Russian wild collected seeds of course.
Thank you for the links Nathalia. I will translate the one of the expert you mentioned. As to Plantarium I think it is like this? A forum where people who knows a lot and people who knows a little less posts their photos? So I think one has to be a little careful using the pictures, or am I wrong? And do not forget about natural hybridizing.
Yes, I understand that there are such thing as natural hybridizing, but then it is a hybrid. I was wondering if the species really vary that much so Natalias and Dr Berkutenkos plants surely are true to the species natural variation? I do not want to offend anyone, I just want to understand the species as much as possible. Out of all descriptions I have red and reliable photos I have seen these are the only ones sticking out that much this far?
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Susann, I will explain the situation - Plantarium - online qualifier, non comercial project. Yes, pictures taken mostly by amateurs. In the definition of plants involved professional botanists and knowledgeable amateurs.
Such a large number of defined images Pulsatilla growing in our country, you will not find anywhere else on the Internet.
And the professionalism - if based on Chinese Photo - your plant Pulsatilla daurika. But look at botanical drawings of leaves - I hung out them at the beginning of a topic - leaf of your Pulsatilla is rather similar to the sheet Pulsatilla cernua.
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Thank you for the links Nathalia. I will translate the one of the expert you mentioned. As to Plantarium I think it is like this?
Susann
Do you use Google translate? I went to Natalia's links and they were automatically translated.
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Thanks for the links, Natalia!
I fell in love with this buttercup yellow pulsatilla (P aurea). Do anybody know of a seed source?
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30892.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30892.html)
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Trond, this plant in the nature, the picture is taken near Mount Elbrus, the settlement of Dombai.
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. Do anybody know of a seed source?
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30892.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30892.html)
I could send you a few seeds, wild collected last year. Please send me your adress. ( You are in great luck that I am such a lazy person, I received them over a week ago.)
Do you use Google translate? I went to Natalia's links and they were automatically translated.
I did not open the Plantarium link as I already use teh website, but the other link came in pure Russian. Interesting letters, but very difficult to read, especially when you do not speak Russian! Interesting that you got it translated. That means that there is-as usual- a to me unknown button to press to get sites automatically translated?
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Natalia, I didn't see it when I visited the area :-\ Maybe I was too late in the season? (Mid July). We stayed in Cheget/Чегет and had many trips in the surrounding mountains (also to the summit of Elbrus). We did see a lot of plants and a very nice scenery!
Thank you Susann, I'll PM you ;D
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Susann, if you use Google Chrome you always have the option to choose on the top of the page!
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Hoy, it is not seed source. It is a community of professional botanists. Images are made mostly in nature. No seeds available.
Susann I can see only yours pictures of P. dahurica. They looks true, leaves and flowers. As for involucrating leaves I need to look first at some papers to check.
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Natalia, I didn't see it when I visited the area :-\ Maybe I was too late in the season? (Mid July). We stayed in Cheget/Чегет and had many trips in the surrounding mountains (also to the summit of Elbrus). We did see a lot of plants and a very nice scenery!
Pulsatilla aurea is not common Hoy. It is rare. You need to know the point exactly to find it.
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Trond, you were from the East from Elbrus, and Dombai - to the west.
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Thanks Olga. I was aware it wasn't a commercial site but I hoped somebody had seeds anyway! You'll never know! Although it is rare you sometimes has luck and stumble upon interesting things. Our guide wasn't a plantsman and we didn't actually look for plants either.
Sooner or later I have to go back but it is a big big world and life is short :-\
Natalia, next time I'll visit other places too!
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Susann, as it is difficult to you to read in Russian, pay attention, here Pulsatilla dahurica photo from the southern part of its distribution in our country -
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/171052.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/171052.html)
and here plants from northern part of an area - http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/73341.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/73341.html)
And to a question of an origin - my Pulsatilla dahurica from vicinities of Komsomolsk-on-Amur.
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Susann, if you use Google Chrome you always have the option to choose on the top of the page!
I am sorry but I still use Firefox. But, happy surprise, I have found the magic way to get a site translated! This will make things much easier in the future. Thank you for mentioning it.
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I use Google Chrome, Firefox and Safari and change between them necessary.
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Trond, it's much easier to find P. aurea seeds in Europe than in Russia. And it's a hard germinator and grower.
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And also the photo from a site the nature of Baikal, defined by biologist Nadezhda Stepantsova, it is the expert on Siberian Pulsatilla.
http://nature.baikal.ru/phs/ph.shtml?id=63851&ref=phs/plant (http://nature.baikal.ru/phs/ph.shtml?id=63851&ref=phs/plant)
Natalia,
thanks for the link. It's not only the pulsatillas but also the endemic Golomjanka / oil fishes (Comephorus sp.) of lake baikal which fascinate me!
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leaf of your Pulsatilla is rather similar to the sheet Pulsatilla cernua.
Yes Natalia, I remember you posted links to the drawings of Flora of Russia. And I do agree with you that the leaves on the full plant image I posted is atypical to the leave drawing. But still, I am sorry to say I do not completely agree with you. I think there are so many more details to consider. My plants are for example quite big, almost as big as P chinensis. P cernua is, as you know, much smaller, and it does not show fully developed leaves when flowering, as do P dahurica. If you check for example Flora of Russia, Flora of China or Flora plantorum herbacearum chinae boreali-orientalis (III) you will find that they all state the same about this. Hopefully it is possible to put a small reliance to it? ( Aichele deals a lot with the differences in his comprehensive taxonomic work if someone is interesting in reading an extensive text about the species)
I will add a photo of some of the seeds of the particular collection. Although the seeds are completely dry and the image is made smaller for being able to post it, I hope it is seen that they are not only longer than the ones of P cernua, they are also, despite being dry, still very hairy; typical to P dahurica.
[attachimg=1]
But of course, it might have been a busy bee doing what it is not supposed to. But for now, I think I will stick to believing my plants are P dahurica. At least until someone succeed to convince me I am wrong. ( The latter is not very unusual)
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Susann, and I agree with you - seeds at your copy typical for P.dahurica - long, thin and shaggy. In disputes round definition of types of a Pulsatilla me one question interests: whether there can be a hybrid a plant described by scientists as a pure species.
That is - the Chinese sources describe one type of a leaf, but our botanists - another. According to photos Plantarium it is possible to see that on flowers the look precisely varies depending on a growth place... Very often at least one more type оther Pulsatilla grows in habitats of P.dahurica or nearby (in flight of an insect).. In this case hybridization is possible is we see in our gardens. So whom to consider by the REAL type of a Pulsatilla dahurica (and other Pulsatilla)?
I incline to opinion that plants a Pulsatilla the most different from close growing specie and is a pure species of a plant(I don't mention other characteristics species of a plant).
I'm afraid I can not exactly explain my point of view - my English is very bad. :-[
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This is a fascinating discussion for someone like me who doesn't know many of these plants well (or at all!). It would be very interesting to know both the variation of plants within an area, and the variation that arises when seed is sown from different species. From the pictures shown of a number of species there does seem to be a lot of variation in flower colour and other aspects of the plants (which I suppose could be the result of hybridisation, or under a different interpretation just natural variation within a species). What is particularly exciting for me is to see so much information about these plants - individual botanists are always likely to have their own interpretations. For the gardener there are some wonderful plants amongst them - I have grown P. aurea from Czech seed, but never managed to grow them on to flowering; what a glorious plant!
Natalia - your English is so much better than nearly every else's Russian! (on the Forum).
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I have never been particularly concerned with the (scientific) name of a plant species other than to ensure we speak about the same thing. For what is a species? It depends on what you define as a species. And which characters count most when defining a species? The characters you decide is more important - for you. Those which are easy to see for instance. Characters like colour, leaf shape, hairs (of all kinds) doesn't really matter much - they can all vary very much inside one population or from one population to the next.
Even with increasingly more knowledge of the DNA content of an individual it is difficult to define a species. Which individuals do you put together and name as a species and which is another species or just a sub species! Tiny differences in the genome and the expression of a certain genes can be controlled by not obvious epigenetic factors.
Although the goal of classification now seems to reflect the evolution and put the individuals more closely related together as species and genera etc, living "species" are plastic and ever changing and difficult to enclose in a "box" with a scientific name on.
For me a name is the way I can ascertain I get what I want. But with the huge variation within a so called species you never know. And that is exciting too!
Trond, it's much easier to find P. aurea seeds in Europe than in Russia. And it's a hard germinator and grower.
Yes, possibly - but if I got it from a local source it would probably be more like what I want!
Why is it hard to find anybody trading Russian seed? With all those fabulous plants growing there somebody starting an internet business would have many customers, I am sure ;)
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Tim, thank you - your words are encouraging :)
Unfortunately, at huge richness of opportunities researches DNA of plants are often connected with considerable financial expenses and therefore aren't available to all researchers. :((
So while scientists won't find a way to make these researches cheaper or the states won't understand all importance of these researches - we should be content with only separate researches.
Trond, it completely agrees - only genetic researches give the chance to build a true "tree of the genus".
Apropos Pulsatilla aurea: I grew up this species from the Czech seeds, but there ascended only one seed.
In our country there is no opportunity to buy these seeds :'(
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I have never been particularly concerned with the (scientific) name of a plant species other than to ensure we speak about the same thing. ..
For me a name is the way I can ascertain I get what I want. But with the huge variation within a so called species you never know. And that is exciting too!
Second: I totally agree with you in your arguing about what is a species and why. If a plant is beautiful in my garden and I can not determind exactly what it is I just enjoy it, accepting it is "something". But, if I am going to share it with someone else the problems start. And as Pulsatilla happend to be such a super-plastic genus with so much misunderstandig not only among us gardeners but also among botanists, and adding to that having so many ( invalid) names in use, I am really interested in this. I am inclined to think the European botanists are quite clever when for example accepting P patens as a very variable species, and therefor just put ssp or f to the more obvious differences. The Russians, as I understand, are more inclined to put a species name to the different natural varieties. When I give talks I always try to sneak in some Pulsatilla information trying to make the audience aware of how complex the genus is and how very easy it hybridizes. I find it a little sad that people keep sending seeds of garden origin to the lists as true species. It makes the confusion even worse. I would like it to be sent as " Pulsatilla ex species this and that" or just "Pulsatilla hybrid".
Why is it hard to find anybody trading Russian seed?
I have been told that Russians are having problems as they are not allowed to send seeds or plants abroad. That is why we have to rely on the Czecks that does a wonderful work.
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Why is it hard to find anybody trading Russian seed? With all those fabulous plants growing there somebody starting an internet business would have many customers, I am sure ;)
Why dont you start? ;)
We are still much closed country. Many things are not as easy as you think.
For what is a species? It depends on what you define as a species. And which characters count most when defining a species? The characters you decide is more important - for you.
I totally agree with you. But not me or you decide what is species and why. Because we are not botanists.
One clever person discovered a very interesting garden (landscape) law. The law of 20 steps. If you can not distinguish two plants from 20 steps the plants are the same. And when we think about garden beauty the law works. And does not matter do you plant out Pulsatilla vulgaris or P. turczaninovii. They look the same from 20 steps. And we can call the plant for ourselves that violet pretty flower.
But when you call the plant for other people you should call it correctly according to botany nomenclature.
European botanists are quite clever when for example accepting P patens as a very variable species, and therefor just put ssp or f to the more obvious differences. The Russians, as I understand, are more inclined to put a species name to the different natural varieties
Susann the Europeans do not have any variability in P. patens. :) No need for them to divide the species (although you know I agree with you in case of Asian P. patens).
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Olga, that rule is so clever, thank you for telling us! I wish for example the Hemerocallis folks could learn about it. I have no idea how many thousends of cultivars looking more or less the same they have put into trade.
Regarding to my comment about the naming of for example the P patens, as usual, I was unclear. I ment that european botanists put all the Asian P patens into one species, they put the P multifida as P patens ssp multifida and so on.
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Why dont you start? ;)
We are still much closed country. Many things are not as easy as you think.
I totally agree with you. But not me or you decide what is species and why. Because we are not botanists.
One clever person discovered a very interesting garden (landscape) law. The law of 20 steps. If you can not distinguish two plants from 20 steps the plants are the same. And when we think about garden beauty the law works. And does not matter do you plant out Pulsatilla vulgaris or P. turczaninovii. They look the same from 20 steps. And we can call the plant for ourselves that violet pretty flower.
But when you call the plant for other people you should call it correctly according to botany nomenclature.
Susann the Europeans do not have any variability in P. patens. :) No need for them to divide the species (although you know I agree with you in case of Asian P. patens).
Olga, neither am I a businessman nor have I (easy) access to Russian seeds ;)
The 20 step rule is nice, however it depends on whether I use glasses or not! On the other hand I do like to try different proveniences of plants whether they are the same species or not to achieve more variation and greater probability of viable offspring!
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Hi!
Pulsatilla from My Garden (2012):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EPzIc3WL7wg/T3dl6JMvyVI/AAAAAAAANoM/9GK_tutZDZM/s640/IMG_9543.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Bw_ikWLZjuI/T3dl-eRjtrI/AAAAAAAANog/ODVZ0gHX5vQ/s640/IMG_9629.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mEP1gMO0v-E/T3iM1_xTbdI/AAAAAAAANow/9JbOkeeZCrw/s640/IMG_9630.JPG)
Best Regards! zvone
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Beautiful! Thank you for showing us.
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I am going back to the discussion about P turczaninovii vs P ambigua and the discussion of P dahurica vs P cernua as I have finally scanned the images of Flora Plantarum Herbacearum Chinae Boreali-Orientalis tomus III. I think the drawings are of high quality and much better than the drawings of Flora of China.
[attachimg=1]
Unfortunally there is no image of P ambigua. But if anyone reading this happen to read Chinese I would very much appreciate a translation of the extended text and key of Pulsatilla of the flora.
[attachimg=2]
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A beautiful and valuable thread.
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the images of Flora Plantarum Herbacearum Chinae Boreali-Orientalis tomus III. I think the drawings are of high quality and much better than the drawings of Flora of China.
Susann the drawings are perfect and they show very well species. P. turczaninovii is drown very good. Look at finely dissected leaves and the shape of flowers and the stamens/petals proportion.
P. dahurica looks true too especially enlarged leaf.
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Wonderful photographs and information, this is a topic to set on "Notify".
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To comparison Pulsatilla daurica - Pulsatilla cernua...
I found in old archive of a photo Pulsatilla cernua. Unfortunately, Pulsatilla cernua have no accurate photo of a leaf. But the plant grows in a garden - in the spring is possible to make a photo.
Pulsatilla cernua
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A beautiful and valuable thread.
Wonderful photographs and information, this is a topic to set on "Notify".
Thank you for so nice words, and thank you to all to keep contributing to this thread. It is very interesting. I hope there will be many more photos to study as soon as spring reaches us. Perhaps you Josef will have possibility of showing us photos of the locality you mentioned before, with the white - and golden haired P grandis?
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Perhaps you Josef will have possibility of showing us photos of the locality you mentioned before, with the white - and golden haired P grandis?
I photograph solely in my garden. Nevertheless, there are images of the locality I spoke about on the web.
http://cestovani.idnes.cz/podivejte-se-na-svetovou-raritu-nejvic-koniklecu-kvete-za-panelaky-v-brne-1r7-/tipy-na-vylet.aspx?c=A090406_120850_igcechy_tom (http://cestovani.idnes.cz/podivejte-se-na-svetovou-raritu-nejvic-koniklecu-kvete-za-panelaky-v-brne-1r7-/tipy-na-vylet.aspx?c=A090406_120850_igcechy_tom)
http://www.ahojbrno.cz/koniklece-brno/ (http://www.ahojbrno.cz/koniklece-brno/)
http://www.ivcajirka.estranky.cz/fotoalbum/2009-okoli-brna/pr-kamenny-vrch---svetova-koniklecova-rarita/ (http://www.ivcajirka.estranky.cz/fotoalbum/2009-okoli-brna/pr-kamenny-vrch---svetova-koniklecova-rarita/)
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Josef,
mouth watering images. 8) 8) 8) I'm always impressed and fascinated by mass flowering meadows. So beautiful.
Many thanks for the links.
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I photograph solely in my garden. Nevertheless, there are images of the locality I spoke about on the web.
Josef, thank you very much for the links! Photographs are outstanding especially the one with high buildings at the background.
I can not see leaves. Plants look like P. patens.
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Josef, thank you very much for the links! Photographs are outstanding especially the one with high buildings at the background.
I can not see leaves. Plants look like P. patens.
It is certainly Pulsatilla grandis. You cannot see leaves because there are no
during flowering. It is the distinctive character against Pulsatilla vulgaris.
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It is certainly Pulsatilla grandis.
No doubts. :)
You cannot see leaves because there are no
during flowering. It is the distinctive character against Pulsatilla vulgaris.
It's interesting! Is it the only one difference between these two species?
Does it hybridize with P. vulgaris in gardens?
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Thank's Olga!
Best Regards! zvone
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Is it the only one difference between these two species?
In Flora Europaea
vulgaris
leaves appearing with the flowers, basal leaves usually >100 lobes,
perianth segments narrowly elliptical
grandis
leaves appearing after the flowers, basal leaves +-40 lobes, perianth
segments broadly elliptical
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Very beautiful pictures, Josef! Thank you for sharing. As far as I can tell, they all look white-haired to me, though? Do you think you have possibility to look up a golden-haried specimen this spring? It would be even more interesting.
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Do you remember that I in the beginning of the thread showed a picture that was taken by a friend, Mr Timo Ikonen, in Finland? The picture showed a beautiful plant that he claimed was a natural hybrid between P vernalis x patens. I wrote that I rather thought it was a white form of P patens. Well, the other day I red in "Flora of Norden" ( Norway, Sweden and Finland) that the hybrid does occur in southern Finland. So, please have a look at the picture and say what you think about it. Thank you
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Do you remember that I in the beginning of the thread showed a picture that was taken by a friend, Mr Timo Ikonen, in Finland? The picture showed a beautiful plant that he claimed was a natural hybrid between P vernalis x patens. I wrote that I rather thought it was a white form of P patens. Well, the other day I red in "Flora of Norden" ( Norway, Sweden and Finland) that the hybrid does occur in southern Finland. So, please have a look at the picture and say what you think about it. Thank you
Susann's post and the photo she mentions is on page two of this thread :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9988.msg264212#msg264212 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9988.msg264212#msg264212)
I'll copy her note and the picture here : The photographer is Dr TIMO IKONEN från Finland. He thinks it is a P patens x vernalis. Could it be? They belong to different subsections but the might grow in same areas. The leaves does not really look as the patens I have seen, when they have broader leaves they are usually palmate? I tend to believe it is a white form of P patens? P vernalis leaves does look as you know as on the picture but they use to have another segment of lateral leaflets added to it? And the stalks are very high? Letīs see what you say?
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One obvious way of testing this would be to cross plants in a garden setting, or greenhouse, and see the results. However, surely if the hybrid does occur in the wild, it will be in regions where the two species overlap closely and there will be significant numbers of putative hybrid plants? Do Pulsatillas hybridise that easily? Many gardens contain quite a range of species but I haven't heard evidence of obvious hybrids in cultivation where you might expect to see it most clearly.
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It does look to have something of vernalis to me. The leaves especially. Plus I note the leaves seem to have overwintered green (they do not look like fresh new leaves), which only vernalis does here.
Does patens keep green leaves through the winter? Earlier pictures on this thread suggest not.
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The familiar botanist from St. Petersburg showed a photo of hybrids P vernalis x patens, which were found in the wild nature.
So such hybrid really exists in the wild nature of Russia.
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Dear Friends, thank you for so fast answers!
Do Pulsatillas hybridise that easily? Many gardens contain quite a range of species but I haven't heard evidence of obvious hybrids in cultivation where you might expect to see it most clearly.
Oh, yes, Tim, I am sorry to tell you. Pulsatillas are horrible, they hybridize very very easy. That is one of the reasons of all the confusions about the genus I think? People does not always realizePulsatillas are not trustable. ( besides itīs complicated nature with a very wide variation in the species themselves). My belief is you can never take a garden pollinated seed and expect it to come true. If you are interested I can show you many pictures of Pulsatillas of garden hybridization said to be true species. My most beautiful hybrid was between P vernalis and P integrifolia. Now dead of course. Treasures are not to be kept.
Plus I note the leaves seem to have overwintered green. Does patens keep green leaves through the winter? Earlier pictures on this thread suggest not.
Darren; very good point of view! And you are correct, P patens does not keep its leaves during winter here in Scandinavia. So, I it is leaning towards I have to admit I was wrong when first publishing the picture.
So such hybrid really exists in the wild nature of Russia.
Natalia, being Swedish I understand if you are having difficulties with the English language. It is really a very difficult language. ( The other day I got an email about rental cars saying "it is down to automatic". I had no idea if it ment it was only to be found with automatic, or only with manual gear. Very frustrating.) I wish you all spoke Swedish, it would be so much easier :)
I am sorry if I was not clear enough in my last post. My question was not really does hybrids exist in nature? I think we all know that they do, and very frequently? I wanted to know your opinion on the plant showed on the picture. Once you are back on the thread, which is always nice, I would like to say and without wanting to offend you in any way: I strongly does not believe your picture of "P cernua" is correct? I would rather say it is a P dahurica or perhaps a mix between the two. I do not know from where you got the seeds of course, but even if you collected it in situ you can make mistakes, as they grow in the same area, and yes, hybridize easily.
Keep on posting, this is all very interesting! I am waiting for beautiful pictures from all of you that is already experiencing spring. P halleri for example should be in flower in many places in souther Europe ( Great Britain) right now?
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Susann - thank you for enlightening me about Pulsatilla hybrids for I can only speak from my personal experience with them. A cross between vernalis and integrifolia would be really quite extraordinary. Even so the picture you showed of possible patens x vernalis, if it is this hybrid, would surely not be a solitary plant? It must be important to look at populations and natural variation within different species, but I see very much what you mean about confusion - one of the delights of trying to understand something!
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And you are correct, P patens does not keep its leaves during winter here in Scandinavia.
Certainly not here either.
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Susann, I understand, my English is far from perfect. But also for you - English too not native? ;)
Therefore as you told - so I understood :D
Now concerning seeds P.cernua - seeds are received from the nature, but it is not my collecting. Plants are grown up long ago, records remained only in a short form. I don't exclude hybridization, of course, hybrids are natural and to the wild nature - yours history with P.daurica - confirmation to it. : )
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I wanted to know your opinion on the plant showed on the picture.
As for me I am not 100% sure it is hybrid. Yes it is white-haired and flowers are more like P. patens. Leaves are vernalis's or very close to it. But think it is hybrid, yes.
Pulsatilla hallerii ssp. taurica in it's natural habit a week ago. No doubts. :)
(http://cs406231.vk.me/v406231879/6886/3B9g_gAnIiw.jpg)
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The other day I got an email about rental cars saying "it is down to automatic". I had no idea if it ment it was only to be found with automatic, or only with manual gear. Very frustrating.
Standard phrases are difficult to be understood in other languages too. You may guess
the meaning of the following common Czech one.
Je u nás pečený vařený.
Verbatim translation is as follows.
He is at us roasted boiled.
I am waiting for beautiful pictures from all of you that is already experiencing spring. P halleri for example should be in flower in many places in souther Europe ( Great Britain) right now?
We obtained 15-20 cm of devastating wet snow yesterday.
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]He is at us roasted boiled.
Oh, Josef. Very difficult. My guess would be that this person had done something bad and you are now angry with him, or perhaps totally opposite; he is visiting you and having a great time? Please, now that you have had us guessing, donīt forget to tell us the correct meaning. Perhaps Olga and Natalia that speaks Russian might have a clue?
As for me I am not 100% sure it is hybrid. Yes it is white-haired and flowers are more like P. patens. Leaves are vernalis's or very close to it. But think it is hybrid, yes.
Difficult. I do not know what to think. You are right, the leaves reminds of "short" vernalis leaves, but also patens can show leaves more or less like that I believe? I think right now the strongest clue is by Darren who observed that the leaves seemed to have over-wintered. Why can not plants in nature come with very informative labels? But perhaps it would be too boring...
Pulsatilla hallerii ssp. taurica in it's natural habit a week ago. No doubts. :)
I will not argue with you on this one. Beautiful picture of a superhairy beauty. Last winter I had a bud of P halleri ssp taurica overwintering, big and nice. Every time the snow melted it proudly stretched towards sun, well protected in its hairy blanket. When snow came back it just showed patience and waited a little more. It was in full bloom in early March. The other buds of the plant came soon after. This year, it is as at Josefīs, still snowing and around -14 - - 18 at night. No Pulsatillas in sight.
my English is far from perfect.
Please, donīt worry Natalia; in no way did I want to pick on your English. We are both struggling with it. I just thought that you slightly might had misunderstod my question.
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Standard phrases are difficult to be understood in other languages too. You may guess
the meaning of the following common Czech one.
Je u nás pečený vařený.
Verbatim translation is as follows.
He is at us roasted boiled.
Is dinner ready?
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Dunno, I've had mine ;D
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Here is the heroic bud of last winter
[attachimg=1]
Pulsatilla halleri ssp taurica
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This plant in our garden was grown from seed supposedly of the famous 'Budapest', which is a form of grandis(?). One or two seedlings did approach the 'blue' of 'Budapest', but nothing like the original. Is the colour of 'Budapest' actually seen in the wild I wonder? It is extraordinarily beautiful. After the discussion here I also wonder how true a species this is, or if it's likely to be a garden hybrid.
Whichever, it is a wonderful plant and we have used this picture on the front of a leaflet to publicise our AGS Groups in Kent - I can think of few alpines which would do this better!
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It's certainly stunning, Tim ... and a worthy headline act for any alpine event.
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Dear Tim!
Now I think I am making you and many persons disappointed. But some years ago there was an article in the SRGC journal telling the sad story about the legendary `Budapestī. It was a P halleri that was found outside of Budapest, and it has beautiful blue flowers. It was showed somewhere in Great Britain, I do not remember where. It won a medal of merit, do not ask me which one. Unfortunally, according the article, it died soon after being showed, without setting any seeds.
This makes it impossible that there are any `Budapestī seedlings or strain around. As the article said, there might be other Pulsatilla halleri in blue form found in Hungary in the trade, but they can not be called īBudapestī. As I am sure you all know, when a cultivar name is given to a plant, it can not be used for a similar one.
Here in Sweden I have seen many labels with the name `Budapest`, but is has this far never belonged to a blue P halleri, but to the very beautiful northamerican blue P patens or hybrids with ( at least for me) impossible parentage to figure out.
Now, I would be more than happy if someone tells me that the article -and me- are wrong!
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The following articles about P. 'Budapest' are all available online from this web page :
http://www.srgc.net/site/index.php/extensions/journal (http://www.srgc.net/site/index.php/extensions/journal)
Pulsatilla 'Budapest' : 11/98B, 123
Pulsatilla grandis Budapest Blue : 24/124C, 125C, 140, 155*
Pulsatilla Budapest Var. : 24/126C, 155
This plant has been the subject of much discussion over the years- in the pages of Alpine L, for example and in this Irish AGS group document :
www.alpinegarden-ulster.org.uk/POM/Pulsatilla%20Budapest.doc (http://www.alpinegarden-ulster.org.uk/POM/Pulsatilla%20Budapest.doc)
..and in the NARGS forum, between some famili#ar names here :
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=624.msg7528#msg7528 (http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=624.msg7528#msg7528)
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Here are the "segments" of Mike Stone's article from the Rock Garden January 1995
First, the text, then, in two parts to enable posting here, the photos.
[attachurl=1] the text
[attachurl=2]
[attachurl=3]
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Very interesting discussion of P. 'Budapest'! Thank you Maggy for the text and images!
Two years ago I shoot a blue Pulsatilla in ZZ's garden. There were many bluming Pulsatillas but that one was really outstandind, extraordinary. We discussed it but my stupid memory lost all information. The word 'Budapest' was pronounced as I remember. And when I look at Maggi's picts I see it is very close to them. May be ZZ could tell us about this plant?
(http://cs406231.vk.me/v406231879/6bbd/srdgIF6kX98.jpg)
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This lovely pulsatilla was exhibited by Geoff Rollinson at the AGS East Lancashire Show in March 2010 with the label; 'Pulsatilla grandis Budapest Strain.
Just to add to the confusion! ;D
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Susann must be right if there was originally only one plant labelled 'Budapest', in theory this could only be perpetuated vegetatively. Presumably this wonderful colour is so special that gardeners have kept using the same name for plants from various sources. But it still begs the question whether other wild plants in the same region are likely to have this same colour - then it might be fair to carry over the same name to them? The original was an amazing blue which doesn't seem to be quite there in many plants that are shown, even though they are very beautiful in their own right. Perhaps a pulsatilla breeding programme should be in the offing??
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Very interesting discussion of P. 'Budapest'! Thank you Maggy for the text and images!
Two years ago I shoot a blue Pulsatilla in ZZ's garden. There were many bluming Pulsatillas but that one was really outstanding, extraordinary. We discussed it but my stupid memory lost all information. The word 'Budapest' was pronounced as I remember. And when I look at Maggi's picts I see it is very close to them. May be ZZ could tell us about this plant?
I have heard from ZZ, who says :
"Killing Pulsatilla
To kill some Pasque flowers needs a skill. I did it with this fantastic blue variety (what a shame!) with the help of watering and fertilizing. Too good life is always a danger. I obtained this plant from some lovely friend of mine (which one? I have a lot of them, but Irish Master Harold McBride is my choice) and I thought that I was the king of the blues of Pulsatilla. 3 years old plant collapsed suddenly after rich heavenly light blue blooming. It was kind of a stroke (steaming wet soil in hot spring).
I do believe that this queen of Pasque flowers is steppe plant, Pulsatilla grandis, which one blessed female gardener found at some limestone hills north of Buda or Pet = Budapet in Hungary. We know striking dwarf white varieties from Styria (Austria), lilac blooming forms from Moravia and rare rose-pink forms from Slovakia. Fritz Kummert just now prepares an article about this species. That killing-heart blue form is strictly Hungarian. Can somebody give me my second chance?"
ZZ.
[attachimg=1]
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Thank you Maggi for giving us links to all the interesting articles ans pictures! It was the article of 1995 I was referring to. Perhaps 1995 is not as "a few years ago" as I will think of it? One of my daughters has just been visiting for some days and she keeps telling me I am getting old!? Old, me? I just happen to remember when kiwi and yoghurt was introduced to Sweden, and...
The word 'Budapest' was pronounced as I remember.
Here as photo, actually of the same plant as Olga has photographed. In this picture it has just passed its peak and some flowers begin to be overbloomed.
Please not that there are still no leaves emerging. P halleri is said to have leaves and flowers in the same time, and in my garden it is the way they grow. On the other hand, the norhtamerican P patens, with itīs beautiful blue color and colorless pistills, flowers without showing the leaves.
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...and I pressed the "post" without adding the photo...
[attachimg=1]
I also wanted to write "please, note that there are still no leaves emerging ".
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Ok, here comes the rest of what I was thinking of writing in the first post; ZZ told me too it was a `Budapestī. But I always get a little suspicious when there are no leaves around. Still, it was a beautiful plant, and just as Maggi quoted, he wrote to me later that year that he had killed the plant by giving it fertilizer. It is very sad, but in the same time gives me some courage. Even people with long experience can do horrible mistakes! If I tell you just some of my gardening mistakes you will probably laugh for a week.
The biggest mistake regarding Pulsatillas was some winters ago. I had fourteen beautiful big plants, full of flower buds, of P vernalis in open soil. I wanted to give them a good start before potting them for sale. I had placed a big glass over them to protect them from bare frost as our winters are so strange with snow and rain, and bare frost with -20 or more, back and forth. Anyway, I went to listen to a talk and the man giving it mentioned that if you are protecting something, please check it in the end of winter so it has not gotten too dry under the glass. I got worried and dug the snow away and had a look. No problem, everything was fine. But, the glass had pressed the buds down a little so I put a brick under the glassīs corners and dugged the snow back. As it happened, spring arrived just three or four days later with a quick thaw. I decided to take the glass away as I was afraid it would get the nice plants burnt if the snow melted completely. When I lifted the glass I found a big disaster. A mouse had in these few days found his way under the glass and had had a real party! He had carefully gnawed all the leavesīs steams away and eaten all the buds. The leaves were laying in neat circles around the empty and wounded root necks. All over the place were small green poops. I really hope his small belly hurt a lot. But this story has a good ending, contrary to the story of the showing of the `Budapestī. All the plants survived! I was convinced the root necks were hurt too badly. But the next season they all flowered as nothing had happened.
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According to Flora Europaea and Botany.cz
1 basal leaves palmately divided ... patens
1 basal leaves pinnately divided
2 with 7-9 primary segments, becoming glabrous
3 leaves with flowers, >100 lobes ... vulgaris
3 leaves after flowers, +-40 lobes ...grandis
2 with 3-5 primary segments, persistently lanate
4 plant <5 cm at anthesis, leaves 50-100 lobes
5 primary segments often petiolate ... halleri subsp. rhodopea
5 primary segments usually sessile ... halleri subsp. taurica
4 plant >5 cm at anthesis, leaves <50 lobes
6 primary segments +-5
7 lamina 3-7 cm ... halleri subsp. halleri
7 lamina 5-11 cm ...halleri subsp. styriaca
6 primary segments +-3
8 segments 12-25 mm broad ... slavica
8 segments 7-12 mm broad ... subslavica
If the plant was identified as halleri in Kew, its leaves are
certainly pinnately divided.
So you should check whether the lamina of basal leaves
is glabrous or lanate in summer. If glabrous, it is
grandis, if lanate, it is halleri, slavica or subslavica.
Nevertheless, the character of the plant suggests grandis.
I checked Hungarian images on the web. The flower colour of
Hungarian grandis is either greyish-mauve or bluish-violet
as in Moravia. The colour of hairs is irrelevant.
http://botany.cz/cs/pulsatilla-slavica/ (http://botany.cz/cs/pulsatilla-slavica/)
http://botany.cz/cs/pulsatilla-subslavica/ (http://botany.cz/cs/pulsatilla-subslavica/)
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http://botany.cz/cs/pulsatilla-hackelii/ (http://botany.cz/cs/pulsatilla-hackelii/)
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My favourite Pulsatilla starts to flower in spite of this unusual sunless
and cold spring. The second picture is from last year, when the flowers
were more. I raised this plant about 12 years ago from wild seed, collected
in the Slovakian Tatra Mountains. It grows in the hottest and driest place
of my garden. The seed was labelled as P. halleri slavica, but I would be
grateful for the exact identification by the experts.
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Magnificent, Rudi.
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The seed was labelled as P. halleri slavica, but I would be
grateful for the exact identification by the experts.
I am far from an expert but I would trust your label. The plant looks to me as the one below, which is ( confirmed by an expert!) P halleri ssp slavica or subslavica. I donīt remember which one, and as the leaves does not show it is to me impossible to say. Ssp slavica has broadly divided leaves and ssp subslavica has finely divided leaves. Your plant has slightly more narrow petals than the plant below, but I think that is a normal variation. Letīs wait for Josef and hear his opinion.
[attachimg=1]
P halleri ssp slavica or subslavica
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Hello Susann and Cliff, many thanks for your help
and the friendly comment.
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Oh, Josef. Very difficult. My guess would be that this person had done
something bad and you are now angry with him, or perhaps totally opposite;
he is visiting you and having a great time? Please, now that you have had us
guessing, donīt forget to tell us the correct meaning.
He is our daily visitor.
I am far from an expert but I would trust your label. The plant looks to me as the one below, which is ( confirmed by an expert!) P halleri ssp slavica or subslavica. I donīt remember which one, and as the leaves does not show it is to me impossible to say. Ssp slavica has broadly divided leaves and ssp subslavica has finely divided leaves. Your plant has slightly more narrow petals than the plant below, but I think that is a normal variation. Letīs wait for Josef and hear his opinion.
I guess slavica. But identifying photographs is not my hobby.
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Thank you Josef.
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He is our daily visitor.
OK, so at least I was right about the part that he is visiting you...not too bad.
Sun has arrived, melting the snow, and hopefully, in a week or so I can see how the earliest Pulsatillas are doing.
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puh :o ...i found this thread this afternoon at work and i knew, what i have to do this evening...reading all 14 pages (okay not all exactly ;D) and marvelling at the wonderful fotos (sometimes with suddenly beginning salivation ;D).
here is my Pulsatilla rubra, grown from seed which a friend collected in sierra nevada/spain (he couldn't remember for sure, maybe he collected in france). the digicam has problems to show the true color. if you stay in front of the plant, you would say the color is black. the fotos aren't current of course.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
a few days ago the first Pulsatilla started here in our very delayed spring...Pulsatilla halleri ssp. taurica (got under this name)
[attachimg=4]
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Herzlich willkommen Greenspan,
your P. rubra are beautiful grown and your hairy P. halleri ssp. taurica is lovely, too. 8)
My P. halleri ssp. rhodopaea is now more then 6 weeks in bud stage and just awaiting (as me) a bit warmer weather.
I learned recently the two subspecies just differ in the primary segment shape (sessile vs. often petiolate).
Would be interested to compare the leaves later.
P.S. Do you have a first name?
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Really wonderful plants of P. rubra, such a rich colour - I hope the seedlings I have growing of this are the true thing. Like Armin we have yet to see a pulsatilla flower in the garden this spring, but it can't be too long now!
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Beautiful plants Greenspan, and a stunning photograph of P. halleri ssp. taurica 8)
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i found this thread ...reading all 14 pages
Hi! We all welcome you to this thread, and thank you for beautiful pictures! My P halleri ssp taurica has just get rid of their snow cover, they look horrible, the buds are like drown cats, some buds has even aborted. I have not seen that in halleri before. Winter was really tuff, with rain followed by -20 without snow and so on.
Your rubra is very dark, which makes me think -without being an expert- that its origin is France. The Spanish form is usually more to violet. But of course, (Once again...)it varies a lot )But, I am sorry to say, (and you do say that you do not remember the origin), I do not think your friend collected the seeds in Sierra Nevada, because that is down in south Spain, in Andalucia, and according to the floras there are no Pulsatillas. Perhaps it was Cordillera Cantabrica if Spain, or the Pyrenees, Spanish or French part? Anyway, very beautiful pictures. Hope you will contribute with more. I suspect that a person that put interest in reading the whole thread do grow more than a few of these lovely and interesting plants.
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you're right susann, my friend must have collected the rubra seed in france (as i wrote he wasn't sure whether in spain or france). i found this info about a rubra habitat in the area of lyon/france (http://www.tela-botanica.org/bdtfx-nn-54086) with similar dark colored flowers as mine. but you made a joke, when you wrote... -without being an expert-, because this doesn't figure with this "I red Flora of China yesterday (floras are lovely bed-table books)". ;D ;D ;) i don't believe anything. ;D ;)
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my friend must have collected the rubra seed in france
Thank you for the link with information about P rubra, very interesting. (But it is a pity that the French speak french, It makes it so difficult to understand). I am hoping to see som P rubra this spring, but I am afraid they might have already flowered when I am in the area. Right now my biggest concern is if the Pp sugawarii and magadanensis has survived the strange winter. I do not have big hope about it. Henrik Zetterlund says that the Botanical Garden in Gothenburg has had big loss of plants this year. As I have understood their winter was not as bad as it was here in the outskirts of the Southern highlands. Please cross your fingers that my plants are still alive.
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i cross all fingers + toes for your rare Pulsatilla. please give me a hint for the substrate of P. sugawarii, P. taraoi + integrifolia. i still have none of them, but i expect some in november from sachiyo yuzawa (sachiyo, is it a female prename?). i imagine a mix of sharp sand, lava grit + peat should work. similar substrate as for P. vernalis (sand + peat). when they will arrive so late, i have to pot + store them in my cold but frostfree greenhouse (min. temp. 1,5°C). a few years ago i got seed of P. magadanensis + ajanensis from dr. berkutenko. a few germinated, but i lost all a year later. i used sand + peat, maybe it was wrong? since dr. berkutenko stopped selling seed, has anybody a seed source for these Pulsatillas?
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Pulsatilla magadanensis (collected by Natalia N.) is available via Vojtech's updated seedlist supplement.
http://holubec.wbs.cz/Introduction.html (http://holubec.wbs.cz/Introduction.html)
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Yes, you are correct, Sachiyo is a female name, it as very lovely girl. She is the daughter of the family company. The plants will arrive bare rooted, big and in very good shape. The trouble that I have had is that they wake up during the journey although it only takes five days to reach Sweden from Hokkaido.
First time I did as you, kept them potted in frost free green house over winter and they survived, got nice leaves and looked very healthy. Then my neighbour was supposed to take care of all plants, with very firm instructions to water only with few drops but she soaked the plants and they had all rotten by the time I got back. ( Last year the same neighbour managed to kill around fifty P occidentalis seedlings)
Second time I ordered from Yuzawas I decided to plant them in garden directly, and it was not a very good idea, only a few survived and last autumn it was only one P sugawarii left. But Olga has plans to steal the big sugawarii plant belonging to Yuzawa, as you might have red? Perhaps we could share the seeds as the crime is to take place when the plant is full of seeds? ;)
I can not give you any advice about substrate, hopefully someone else can. I am also interested in getting advice about these species. I have used a mix of equal parts of peat, sand and I think it is called grit? (small sharp stonesthat are a little bigger than sand). The P magadanesis was the only seed that germinated from a batch from Dr Berkutenko. I kept it in the same mix as the sugawarii and taraoi, it has survived for quite some years, but never had flowers. I have grown the integrifolia in the same substrate but not managed to get it long-lived. But at least they has got flowers. In my garden they tend to abort the buds. Perhaps Olga can tell you what substrate she uses for the magadanensis.
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But Olga has plans to steal the big sugawarii plant belonging to Yuzawa, as you might have red? Perhaps we could share the seeds as the crime is to take place when the plant is full of seeds? ;)
i'm in! ...no...only a joke... ;D
hm...potting of the special Pulsatillas seemed successful, till your neighbour came with the big watering can. :P ;D accidentally one of my neighbours is a women from tokyo, a native speaker. i'll ask her to send sachiyo an email, what kind of substrate she uses. i'll see. so let's wait for olga, what she says.
@jozef
thank you very much for the tipp. the payment method of voitech is a bit complicated in our times. cheques or an extra amount of 12 for a simple sepa-money transfer. a sepa transfer costs nearly nothing. it's a normal thing now. but...he has the seed, he lays down rules. ;D
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I've just seen your marvellous pictures of P.rubra, absolutely marvellous colour! My plants are flowering at the moment, not quite as good as last year - and still the 'wrong' colour. They already feature on this thread, about page 6 I think, so I have avoided sending now pictures.
Incidentally, I just send Vojtech payment in euro notes, and it always to work. Not totally safe, of course, but no problems.
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a sepa transfer costs nearly nothing
I believe, this is only true within the Eurozone (countries using the Euro).
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.... or an extra amount of 12 for a simple sepa-money transfer. a sepa transfer costs nearly nothing. it's a normal thing now. but...he has the seed, he lays down rules. ;D
In my ignorance I did not know anything about a sepa transfer..... so I found this ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area)
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thank you maggi for the information + sorry for my offtopic about the sepa-payment here. last note...i made payments to other czech gardeners always as a simple sepa bank transfer very convenient with online banking from my pc, safe + fast for both sides. that's why i was a bit astonished about the extra amount of 12 for this payment method. 12 means 3 packages of Pulsatilla magadensis seed. ;D ;)
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Greenspan - no apology is needed - we are very relaxed about "off topic" here - this is primarily a community of plant lovers and we feel it important to allow threads to digress, as any "real" conversation can do in a face to face meeting. :)
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Regarding international transfers ( sepa transfer is a new word for me, thank you). I have by experience learnt it is not only depending on which country but also which bank you transfer to. Some receiving banks like to put on an extra fee. Many Czechs use a foreign bank, then I pay only 10 SEK ( about 1,10 euro) but if they use a Czech bank it will be 50 SEK. If I transfer money to UK it is also 50 SEK.
The problem is also that you have to make sure that the receiver does not have to pay his/her bankīs fees. That is why Holubec has to charge you so much. Until just a few years ago, you could chose, by ticking a box, to pay the other bankīs fees, but now it has changed, and it is automatically charged of the receiver.
Perhaps this makes you feel a little more confortable having to paying for the fees? And, if we add the thoughts that we did not have to go collecting the seeds, cleaning them, making the list.Then, 12 euros it not that much...And this is a typical female comment I think; 12 euros is equal to 6 chocolate bars. And honestly, you do better without them...
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Pulsatilla turczaninovii is a species closely related to P. ambigua. Sometimes people confuse them. P. turczaninovii leaves are tripinnate (divided at three levels).
thank you olga for the foto of a turczaninovii leaf. i checked some of my older Pulsatilla fotos + found this one...grown from (commercial) seed, labelled as "turczaninovii"...it should be ambigua, because of the bipinnate leafs, isn't it?
[attachimg=1]
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this Pulsatilla is flowering now, has big flowers (~9 cm), spreading its narrow tepals like a star in full sun. it grows in my garden for many years + i have no further information about this plant. does anybody has an idea what it could be?
[attachimg=1]
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has an idea what it could be?
A very beautiful picture that brings hope that it will be spring this year as well! Thank you!
Repeating that I am not an expert, but regarding there are no leaves I think you can exclude vulgaris and patens. And as the petals are so elliptic I think you can exclude halleri as well, which leaves us to grandis ( P vulgaris ssp grandis). Of course, as long as you donīt know the origin of the seeds it can be of garden origin, and then it can be a mix of anything ( :) including Taraxacum, if you know the thread well)
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I tried to move an established clump of Pulsatilla yesterday. I was surprised that the head, with maybe 12 or more current buds, only had an old woody, slightly branched tap root. This appeared to be partially rotted and broke off at about 12" long, so presumably went much further down at one point. No sign of feeding/hair roots.
Never lifted such an old plant before. Is this a loss? It is in a deep pot at present in the shade.
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Is this a loss? It is in a deep pot at present in the shade.
i fear so but cross my fingers that it will survive. i would replant the Pulsatilla in open soil (no humus, pure mineralic e.g. sand + gritt, sun protected), because the temperatures in a pot will become too warm, although the pot is in the shade, an this could provide rotting going on...my opinion.
@susann
i labelled older fotos of this Pulsatilla also as grandis + i agree that this plant could be a garden hybrid. yes i know the "Pulsatilla taraxacum". ;D i checked the posting date, because my first thought was a 1. april joke. ;D what about the ambigua/turczaninovii? ambigua?
today we have sunny weather + my Pulsatilla vernalis push up. 8) the contrast of the white flower to the enviroment was very high, the digicam came to its limits. a leaf of Erythronium caucasicum smuggeled in. ;D
[attachimg=1]
Pulsatilla vulgaris 'Alba' with Adonis vernalis
[attachimg=2]
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I need a little help to understand what happens in my garden...
I planted 3 Pulsatilla vulgaris two years ago: a red one (Rote glocke), a purple one (Blaue Glocke) and a pink one with toothed petals (Papageno). They are planted in the same bed, about 30 cm away. Last year, a seedling appeared about 50 cm away from the three initial pants, and I was thrilled!
Yesterday the seedling opened 3 flowers... and I'm really puzzled! The three flowers have each a differerent colour! I looked at the base, but there seems to be only ONE plant!!! Is this just "possible"????
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i would replant the Pulsatilla in open soil .
And I would take all the buds away, and any bigger leaves, giving the plant a chance to concentrate on the root loss. Pulsatillas are often said to be impossible to replant, but my experience this far is that it is no problem. You just have to use common sense, trying to get as much as possible of the roots/ taprot, if having, complete and not have the poor plant struggling with flowers or seeds after replanting. I would go for open soil too. I know that British are very good at pot growing, but here in Sweden it is not very much used, we usually grow our plants outdoor "the natural way". I have replanted many Pulsatillas that have had part of the taproot lost but this far have not had success with a plant with the root rotten. Good luck!
what about the ambigua/turczaninovii? ambigua?
I am avoiding that question as I know that if I try to say anything Olga will imediatelly prove that I am wrong. there seems to be only ONE plant!!!
Yes, nature can puzzle us in many ways, but I am very sorry to say that to me it looks as the beautiful pink flower stem has a clear base rosette of leaves and the red one another? From the photos angle it is not possible to see what is happening with the third flower but I would guess this is to be placed in the Taraxacum category just mentioned in the last posts? Still, it is a very beautiful and fantasy trigging photo!
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@zephirine
definitely 3 plants ;)
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I was surprised that the head, with maybe 12 or more current buds, only had an old woody, slightly branched tap root. This appeared to be partially rotted
Today I could for the first time have a look in the garden after the disastrous winter. The garden is like a swamp, every step "klafsar" ( google translate suggests "is squelching"?). I have had this garden for ten years, and this is the first time I have had so severe damaged caused by winter. I found a big P x gayeri that is nine years old, or should I write that it wasnine year old? It was as usual full of buds, but the root and the part that the buds were attached to was completely rotten. It was placed in a rockery with god drainage. I am glad it is not a very beautiful hybrid so I will happily put a nicer Pulsatilla in the spot. I also found two big old Pulsatillas, nothing special, a P bungeana ( the other one I do not remember what it is; vulgaris, halleri or grandis is my guess) Someone hade neatly eaten the stalks of the leaves and the root neck completely. It was only a deep hole in the middle with a nice clean cut in the bottom. I think it was a mouse, based on what happened with the P vernalis I placed under a glass board some years ago. It looked the same. Now I am worried about all the Pulsatillas that do not show yet. How many has rotten? In my neigborīs vegetable land, with bad drainage, I keep more than fifty P vulgaris hybrids. They all looked fine! The two P halleri ssp taurica that I checked as soon as the snow started to thaw still look like drowned cats, but they have no more aborted buds than the ones I found the first time. A happy ending of this sad post is that I did find some very interesting evergreen leaves that I hope I can tell you more about when it has showed some flowers. Hopefully it is a vernalis hybrid.
I hope that everyone that reads this thread has had better luck than me this year!
[attachimg=1]
The P x gayeri that is now gone
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And I would take all the buds away, and any bigger leaves, giving the plant a chance to concentrate on the root loss.
The reason I lifted it was to try to transfer it to another garden in a month or so time. Last year this plant was very late getting going but then apparently flowered as normal. I think I will cut of the flowers and work fine grit into what is left of the plant head and hope for the best.
There was 1 bright point to this exercise. Just 12" or so away with the label facing away from me was an orchid just coming through, I had forgotten I had planted there. It was Eskimo Nell ;D ;D ;D
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I wish you good luck and (with envy) congratulates you for running into your Eskimo friend! I hope he is in better shape than your poor Pulsatilla!
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Oh dear! I've just looked through all those wonderful Pulsatilla images and messages. Some singularly stunning plants. Now I could start to regret not having discovered the range of Pulsatillas before homing in on Narcissus.
I have sown some P seeds obtained from the AGS and SRGC exchanges but the AGS seed, sown in 2012, has not germinated to date. The SRGC seed was sown in 2013 so I haven't been surprised it hasn't germinated yet (although three lots of Tulipa seed, sown at the same time, has started to germinate. Is there a recommended technique for Pulsatillas to ensure reliable germination? I use a very free draining (50% 6mm grit) compost.
Also, I understand they don't like being moved (repotted or transplanted). Is this true?
Seriously tempted Jack Meatcher
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Some wonderful pulsatillas being shown on this thread. This vulgaris is doing well but a number of other plants plants seem to be flowering less well this year no doubt due to the poor summer last year
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Magnificent, Ian.
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Topic get the second breath when spring come. :)
I'll answer a little bit later because I just came back from the place where some wild Pulsatillas grow.
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Is there a recommended technique for Pulsatillas to ensure reliable germination?
fresh harvested Pulsatilla seed often germinates in the same year, the rest after a cold (winter) period when it becomes warm again (stratification). dried and stored seed falls in a deep dormancy i guess. in such case you need to break dormancy with the phytohormone gibberellinacid 3 (ga3, a crystalline powder; i use a lotion of 0,2% means 200 mg ga3 solute in 100 ml water). it replaces the need for a cold->warm period, so you can sow at warm at once. but not too warm...avoid temperatures over ~20°C. Pulsatilla often germinates about temperatures from 5-10°C. but there is another quite unknown method to germinate stored + dried seed. i found informations about a germination experiment with Ziziphus with different chemical products. the best germination was achieved with thiourea (see here on this site (http://chemsrv0.pph.univie.ac.at/ska/zipharm.htm), scroll down to "Ziziphus mauritiana (Murthy 1989)"). it's in german, but easy to understand. so i tried this with dried Pulsatilla seed. here is an example with sowing P. alpina ssp. apiifolia (Jelitto seed). left shows the germination result without any treatment, right with 1% thiourea:
[attachimg=1]
but i have to say that the methods with ga3 or thiourea failed sometimes. e.g. i got old Pulsatilla ambigua seed + got only one seedling treated with thiourea. but it's worth to have heard about the thiourea-method beside the wellknown ga3-method i guess.
repotting Pulsatilla is no problem, but replanting old stocks might fail sometimes.
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Magnificent, Ian.
Thank you Cliff I wished all my other plants would be as obliging
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I get this as Pulsatilla ambigua . Could anyone confirm the ID ?
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Pulsatilla vulgaris, I believe, unless somebody knows better.
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Pulsatillas are just incredibly photogenic but not necessarily easy to grow. For the first time P. vernalis has flowered in the garden on the sand bed, tucked up against a large block of tufa, and has two more flower buds to come. I will be really pleased if this continues to grow well and flower like this in the future. The two forms of P vulgaris are growing in ideal conditions on a chalky bank in a garden near Maidstone - the second one a particularly good strong colour.
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Re: AGS Midland Show 20th April 2013
Jon Evans' great photos of this very lovely show are on the AGS site. They include several portraits of Pulsatilla integrifolia (Previously Miyakea integrifolia) - shown by the "VeteranVet" George Young ..... http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//Midland+Show+Solihull+th+April+/17114/?page=3 (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/discussion/atshows//Midland+Show+Solihull+th+April+/17114/?page=3)
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With so many beauties here one does not dare to show his own plants.
The only exception, a yellow flowering Pulsatilla pratensis ssp. nigricans !
The plant is probably the rarest color form, only about all 3 years it is possible to find a flowering plant in nature. Almost never finds a plant that blooms for the second time.
Here's a first flowering seedling in the 3rd period!
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With so many beauties here one does not dare to show his own plants.
Beautiful! ( And please, everybody, show your pictures. No picture is "not good enough"! We are here to share, not to feel inferior in any way)
Back to your beautiful plant. In the floras this form is called P pratensis ssp hungarica ( Once again Hungary-thinking of `Budapestī) I got seeds some years ago. Only one seed germinated, the plant developed well, and last summer I incidently gave the pot away! It was ment to be a P albana ssp albana f lutea. They do look a little similar at a very quick glance when not in flower and very small. It took weeks before I discovered that my treasure was gone. I add a photo of the beautiful hungarican:
[attachimg=1]
I mentioned a little mouse that had had a party with my Pulsatillas. I have now found out he had had my biggest P albana ssp albana f lutea as a desert. It makes me very angry with him. I hope his belly hurt a lot!
In my garden, southern Sweden, there are still no Pulsatillas in flower, they will probably all show their beauty when I am in Tábor.
I get this as Pulsatilla ambigua . Could anyone confirm the ID ?
The ambigua indentification I leave to Olga or someone else. It will be interesting to have it confirmed or judged as not "correct".
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The ambigua indentification I leave to Olga or someone else. It will be interesting to have it confirmed or judged as not "correct".
Thanks Susann , I hope Olga read this and could give her findings .........
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thank you olga for the foto of a turczaninovii leaf. i checked some of my older Pulsatilla fotos + found this one...grown from (commercial) seed, labelled as "turczaninovii"...it should be ambigua, because of the bipinnate leafs, isn't it?
Think you are right. :-\ This lovely blue flowered plant looks like P. ambigua.
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I get this as Pulsatilla ambigua . Could anyone confirm the ID ?
Kris it's a beautiful tiny plant. But I can't confirm it is P. ambigua. Probably it is a garden hybrid.
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By the way. :) I can supply with seeds of Pulsatilla. Please let me know if it is interesting.
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And a couple of nature images from the place where the wild P. albana grow.
(http://cs320631.vk.me/v320631879/16a/69I_tA2anOw.jpg)
(http://cs320631.vk.me/v320631879/162/cMq3ptR1yOc.jpg)
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I can supply everyone who goes to Czech Conference with fresh true wild collected seeds of Pulsatilla flavescens, Pulsatilla dahurica and Pulsatilla turczaninovii. Please let me know if it is interesting.
Olga, very very stupid question! I think we all scream "YES, please" when reading this! Thank you for your very kind offer!
And as always, beautiful images. Thank you for showing them.
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By the way. :) I can supply everyone who goes to Czech Conference with fresh true wild collected seeds of Pulsatilla flavescens, Pulsatilla dahurica and Pulsatilla turczaninovii. Please let me know if it is interesting.
This is beyond exciting!
[attachimg=1]
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Do you think so? :P Oh think everyone was not a right word. ;D
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Yes Olga, I'm interested in some seeds if you have some to spare.
And like my kids use to say 5 more sleeps for us anyways
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Yes, please, Olga. :-* :-*
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Yes please, I would also like to have some seed.
Ulla
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Olga, I'd really love some fresh seed too if you can spare a little.
Unfortunately I can't come to Prague so would have to ask Maggi or Lesley perhaps to put them in the post, or give them to Fermi whom I'll meet later in the month.
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:-X
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I'm more than happy to pass on to Ashley.
(Which reminds me Ashley- your Acer seed is growing well )
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Much obliged Maggi.
Yes now seems the time for acers to emerge. Yesterday I was surprised by a second flush of seedlings in a pot sown 18 months ago, and delighted to find stirrings in another pot of seed collected by Chris Chadwell in Ladakh 8)
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I have this as Pulsatilla turczaninovii, from seeds collected by A. Berkutenko.
Did there go anything wrong?
[attach=1] [attach=2] [attach=3]
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Pulsatilla rubra a few days ago 8)
[attachimg=1]
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BREAKING NEWS!
My Pulsatilla magadensis has not only survived the winter but decided to produce a bud! However, it is the absolutely tiniest little bud I have ever seen, it is as made for a doll-house. Actually it is just slightly bigger than a Pulsatilla seed. If it manage to open it will of course be when I am in Tábor. All my neighbors are quite old and do not have cameras for things that small.
[attachimg=1]
4. Susann?
Olga, are you sure my "YES, please"-scream did not reach all the way to Moscow? Perhaps you were listening to music? Yes, please, Olga, I would love to get some seeds. (Did you really realize what you were doing when putting out this offer?)
One P halleri ssp taurica opened two flowers today, and I got a nice image. But as I just changed from jpeg to RAW I have no idea how to make the image small enough to post. "Fotosizer" seems not to accept RAW? If anyone knows how to do, please send me an email explaining it to me. ( Very detailed, please, as I am quite stupid) I do not have Lightroom yet and my old Photoshop does not accept RAW. Nor the necessary plugin.
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Greenspan, I understand you used a smiley with big sunglasses on. Your beautiful plant is really glowing! If there was a green smiley I would reply with it, as I am now green with envy.
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[attachimg=1]
Oops, I've just realised we have mentioned P. magadensis several times in the forum - when the name should be Pulsatilla magadanensis
Pulsatilla magadanensis A.P.Khokhr. & Vorosch - http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=Pulsatilla+magadensis#Pulsatilla-M (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=Pulsatilla+magadensis#Pulsatilla-M)
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@susann
no reason to envy ;D. unfortunately only one plant made flowers this year. i replanted my 4 rubra last year, lost one, but i'm confident that the rest will get back their old strength this year + will flower next year all together. i need seed ;D the few seedlings i got died because the frost lifted them out of soil. :P
your magadanensis is great. :o i love such tiny plants. i got magadanensis fotos from dr. berkutenko, but we will get no chance to compare with your plant, because of your absence when flowering.
@olga
is there a chance to get seed of your Pulsatilla seed offer? i'm not at the Czech Conference. :'( sending by mail?
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Dear Greenspan,
Thank you for your comprehensive reply regarding Pulsatilla seed germination. Wow! If they are that demanding, you Pulsatilla types are really dedicated. I think I'll stick with Narcissus for the time being. I don't think I'm ready for the hair shirt yet.
Incidentally, the Alpine Dept. at Kew find Pulsatillas difficult also. I'll refer them to your posting.
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(Attachment Link)
Oops, I've just realised we have mentioned P. magadensis several times in the forum - when the name should be Pulsatilla magadanensis
Sorry Maggi, and thank you. My mistake, of course it is magadanensis, as it is from Magadan in Far east.
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The great thing about pulsatillas must be that you need to see them in nature to really understand them (a little bit). So of these in my garden I am now only sure about two - P. vulgaris and vernalis! P. ambigua came from Julian Sutton (Desirable Plants nursery in Devon), so that's my provenance of it (it's a nice plant anyway), and P. halleri, I think was seed grown from a plant in Richard Bird's garden. So now I am back to being a complete neophyte about these plants - but that P. rubra has to be the most stunning colour I've ever seen!
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Phantastic images from everyone. 8)
I was off 1 week business trip and missed the flowering of my P. halleri ssp. rhodopaea :'(
Buds were visible since 2 months but it was too cold to open.
During my absence day temperatures went up to +27°C. Too fast and over... ???
2 other Pulsatilla images for now...
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Armin, the prospect of 27 degrees C seems very distant here - right now it is just 7 degrees .
I can quite understand why your flowers came and went so fast in such temperatures.
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This is a J. Halda collection from N-Tadjikistan ( JH-244/06 ). Don't kill me if the name is wrong ;)
Pulsatilla amoena
[attach=1] [attach=2]
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That is a wonderful colour Jozef!
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Josef, beautiful pictures, but... it does not look like what would be a "P amoena" ( if it was a valid name) P amoena is just a description for a
P vulgaris hybrid, sometimes refeered to as P vulgaris ssp germanica. Neither of the names are accepted by Flora Europea. It is a very beautiful plant that you have got. To me it looks a lot like P campanella.
Today is the big packing day, as I am leaving tomorrow. But I will of course have a look if something has happened to the P magadanensis both today and tomorrow morning.
See some of you soon, and for the rest of you; we really wish you would have been able to join us in Tábor and we will miss you!
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Thank you Armin for sharing seed back in 2010 of Pulsatilla vulgaris 'Rote Gloche' (Red Bell?). I marked a spot in the garden, and sowed the seed directly. Last year during the summer rabbits ate the plants down to mere stubs, but obviously they have recovered. This year they flowered for the first time, such large flowers of a lovely red color. The two photos taken 2 days apart, a week ago, the plants still looking good.
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Another Halda collection (Mt. Suukanskaya/Caucasus - JH-118/'97).
This is a garden seedling. The original plant is smaller (more compact), but isnt flowering yet.
Pulsatilla georgica
[attach=1] [attach=2]
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Armin, the prospect of 27 degrees C seems very distant here - right now it is just 7 degrees .
I can quite understand why your flowers came and went so fast in such temperatures.
It is a pity for the flowers but it was amazing to see how quick nature changed from brown/grey when I left to green when I arrived home :D
I'm sure your 7°C will be only an interim appearance ;) :D
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Thank you Armin for sharing seed back in 2010 of Pulsatilla vulgaris 'Rote Gloche' (Red Bell?). I marked a spot in the garden, and sowed the seed directly. Last year during the summer rabbits ate the plants down to mere stubs, but obviously they have recovered. This year they flowered for the first time, such large flowers of a lovely red color. The two photos taken 2 days apart, a week ago, the plants still looking good.
Wow! Congratulations! 8) ;D
May I ask for some seed, please? I lost mine...
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Seriously Armin, you lost yours, oh that's a shame. :(
I will most certainly collect the seed and happy to share. The only thing I have to watch out for is that dang phantom bunny in my yard, I never see it, only the damage done. I read a tip, about using a pump spray bottle, and mixing hot tabasco sauce (1 tablespoon per gallon of water), then nightly spraying on plants favored by rabbits; I may have to do that, as they certainly demonstrated their munching love for this plant last year.
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The mental picture of a stealthy rabbit sneaking into Mark's garden to munch his favourite plants is not a happy one ....but it brings to mind something that I have often wondered about in the past - how on earth do critters find such furry plants palatable?
To eat those plants that have very hairy, furry or wooly foliage would seem to me to be akin to me chomping on cotton wool - that is to say, both unpleasant and downright tricky to chew, let alone swallow!
How do these critters manage it? ???
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The mental picture of a stealthy rabbit sneaking into Mark's garden to munch his favourite plants is not a happy one ....but it brings to mind something that I have often wondered about in the past - how on earth do critters find such furry plants palatable?
To eat those plants that have very hairy, furry or wooly foliage would seem to me to be akin to me chomping on cotton wool - that is to say, both unpleasant and downright tricky to chew, let alone swallow!
How do these critters manage it? ???
Easy to comprehend, it's like eating cotton candy, or as they say in the UK, like eating Candy Floss, pure confection. :)
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One of the most extraordinary plants that rabbits love is berberis! (mind you the soft young shoots). And, as I expect Mark has also found, they like epimediums too - plus the rather rough leaves of brunnera, the nice new leaves of Anemone nemorosa, a touch of crocus flower... they are gourmets when it comes to plants, much as we are!
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About seeds. Now I see there are more seeds than people. :) I'll take all to make sure everybody will be supplied.
Another Halda collection (Mt. Suukanskaya/Caucasus - JH-118/'97).
This is a garden seedling. The original plant is smaller (more compact), but isnt flowering yet.
Pulsatilla georgica
What a beautifil plant Jozef! And I see it differs from P. violacea. May I ask about seeds? ::)
This is a J. Halda collection from N-Tadjikistan ( JH-244/06 ). Don't kill me if the name is wrong ;)
Pulsatilla amoena
The name is wrong. :) It looks like P. ambigua. :)
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The great thing about pulsatillas must be that you need to see them in nature to really understand them (a little bit). So of these in my garden I am now only sure about two - P. vulgaris and vernalis! P. ambigua came from Julian Sutton (Desirable Plants nursery in Devon), so that's my provenance of it (it's a nice plant anyway), and P. halleri,
Tim what a beautiful plants!
"P. ambigua" is tripinnate as I can see? So it is not ambigua. Who knows is it true P. turczaninovii or garden hybrid with it's blood.
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BREAKING NEWS!
My Pulsatilla magadensis has not only survived the winter but decided to produce a bud! However, it is the absolutely tiniest little bud I have ever seen
Susann! That's a miracle! So tiny plant and so tiny bud! Magadanensis! :o
Don't know what you should do but please ask the plant to produce seeds! Tell it please one lady in Russia waiting for them very-very much! ;) And Sweden is much closer to her than Magadan. :-\
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This came to me as Pulsatilla patens nuttalliana and is a seedling from Lionel Clarkson's show plant illustrated in the Hexham show thread.
First flowering for me and I like it a lot!
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What a beautiful plant Jozef! And I see it differs from P. violacea. May I ask about seeds? ::)
I will put a big sign near the plants ;-).
Is there anyone who can identify the plant of reply 263 or make a guess?
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9988.msg274870#msg274870 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9988.msg274870#msg274870)
Beautiful plant, Darren.
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Is there anyone who can identify the plant of reply 263 or make a guess?
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9988.msg274870#msg274870 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9988.msg274870#msg274870)
Thank you Jozef! :)
The plant of course is not P. turczaninovii. I can't say which species (or hybrid) it could be. ??? Seeds from Berkutenko was confused. :-\ Probably the seeds were not wild collect but took from botanical institute collection where species hybridized.
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Seriously Armin, you lost yours, oh that's a shame. :(
I will most certainly collect the seed and happy to share. The only thing I have to watch out for is that dang phantom bunny in my yard, I never see it, only the damage done. I read a tip, about using a pump spray bottle, and mixing hot tabasco sauce (1 tablespoon per gallon of water), then nightly spraying on plants favored by rabbits; I may have to do that, as they certainly demonstrated their munching love for this plant last year.
McMark,
yes it is true - I lost this beautiful red pulsatilla last summer after strong rainfalls. It simply rotted at the base. When I noticed it it was already to late for rescue. It is nice to see it comes true from seed. Would be glad to raise it from seed again.
Rabbits are nocturnal - best chance to surprise the culprit might be the morning dawn 4.00 AM... I believe they are muching the herbs (our loved rarities) cause they can't find them anymore in the wild - at least this is the case here. I had this annoyance ~12-15 years ago - now the rabbit population is distinct by increased mechanised agri(mono)culture, more traffic, ongoing urbanisation...
I'm a nature lover - my heart is severed :'(
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The plant of course is not P. turczaninovii. I can't say which species (or hybrid) it could be. ??? Seeds from Berkutenko was confused. :-\ Probably the seeds were not wild collect but took from botanical institute collection where species hybridized.
Thank you Olga. I have always been in the belief that the seeds from A. Berkutenko were wild collected. I have had Androsace seeds of only one species from her list and also this was with a wrong name. She promised to send a picture, but never did >:(.
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Two P. albana forms.
Pulsatilla albana
[attach=1] [attach=2]
Pulsatilla albana ssp. sulphurea
[attach=3]
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This Pulsatilla with a very large flower is in bloom just now. I am afraid it has become separated from the label with its origin which sometimes happens if I do not label all seedlings individually. There is one pot labelled grandis cream but the leaves look different and it is not going to flower this year.
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I promised Aarie to contribute with something to this thread, but I am sorry to say I can not post any pictures. It was very stupid of me deciding to use RAW instead of jpeg before I have any applications for it. You just have to believe me when I say that finally the Pulsatillas are in flower in southern Sweden. My favorite this year is a greenish white flower with origin from Scottish seed list, said to be "P montana f alba". it is very beautiful, but not a montana of course. Could be an albana involved?
I do not think my "P rubra" are correct either, I have to check them with Flora Europea. All the nice P cernua seedlings except one rotten in their pots this winter ( stupid to keep them in the pots, I know). The survivor has moved to England.
Last year all seedlings from Jelitto said to be P alpina ssp alpina flowered, all were nicely white, but far from alpina. I always thought that people collecting for Jelitto were trustable? Does anyone have experience growing Pulsatillas from Jelitto? Their P occidentalis were all correct. The only problem with the seedlings was that my dear neighbor thought they were fishes.
You mentioned Dr Berkutenko earlier. I have got seeds from her, wildcollected with details of locality. However, a lot of the seeds arrived with fungus, packed when not completely dried I guess. My pride," P magadanesis" is from a lot from Dr Berkutenko. But of course, with my usual luck, it is not a magadanensis. Beautiful dwarf bungeana, though. I should have paid more attention to the leaves in the past. Sorry for misleading you all with my "breaking news". Now my credibility is like for the tabloid newspaper, I suspect? I do not blame the origin of the seeds. As only one seed germinated it might as well has been a seed that jumped into the pot next to it when sowing.
Good thing is that three P aurea has germinated, after one and two years. One P alpina ssp apiifolia is finally in flower after two three years in the border. The other two in borders are still too shy. The task tomorrow is to repot all the P alpina ssp apiifolia that have spent both one and two and three years in the sowing pots. In some of the pots there are still new seedlings this year, together with the ones that have germinated before. This shows that one should never give up on the Pulsatillas; often said to be only fresh germinating. I have found that apiifolia germinates sparingly after one period of stratification, but a lot second spring, just like the Paraquilegias do.
What else? Ambigua, dahurica and campanellas are in bud, vernalis has already said goodbye for this year, but lots of halleri, montana and patens in different color forms shows their beauty. ( By the way, someone mentioned "P patens nutteliana". "Nutteliana" is an invalid name for the Northamerican bluish form of P patens, so it is really like saying "patens patens").
Also different ssp of albana are in flower. The pratensis are a delight, and I have to say, whatever my "hackelii" is, it is not a true pratensis but very very beautiful. ( We discussed it earlier and some of you suggested it was a plain pratensis and not the natural hybrid with patens)
Finally, there are lots and lots of vulgaris hybrids kept in a vegetable plot ( the neighborīs to tell the true). They come in all colors, and with normal, double- and triple petals. Most of them are fringed. Talking about fringed. I just learnt that there is a locality with fringed P vulgaris in the south of Sweden. It has been reported for 70 years. I really have to go and see it. But when? The Pulsatillas tend to flower when I am away in springtime. And talking about vulgaris hybrids. Many persons in the conference in Czech Republic told me that they where growing `Red Cloakī. I thought that was fun, because the danish word "klokke" means "bells". The Germans has translated it as it was meant to be; "Rote glocken". Someone, somewhere got the danish name translated wrongly into english and now it seems as the British nurseries all name the hybrid the same?
I will just finish with some old pictures of some of the fringed vulgaris forms.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
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Some more pictures. ( Using my pocket camera) I have a P vulgaris f alba in a border at the front of the house. Last year it seems to have been a very good year for germination with all the rain and cold. You can clearly see that the wind always blows at the same direction in our village, it is a northern wind (all tress in garden are leaning towards southeast).
I have only taken away a few seedling to prevent them from being to crowded. I was surprised that so many came white, I would have expected most of them to be purple.
The poor seedlings in the middle of the pathway has been stepped on and disturbed by the snow shovel, but still looks quite fine. There are some more in the pathway that does not show in the image.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
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Pulsatilla grandis in nature ;)
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A Vojtech Holubec collection from Kazakhstan.
Pulsatilla campanella 'VH-336/09'
[attach=1] [attach=2]
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Wow, the left picture was very nice, Jozef!
I found a P dahurica hybrid in one of my rockeries yesterday, very nice with purple nodding flowers. It really looks like a dahurica, only slightly different shape of the flowers and the color of them. I will show you a picture later, when I learn how to convert my images into jpeg. Or anything...
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I am still with Jozefīs nice picture of a Holubec collection in Kazakhstan. I remember that Vladimir Epiktetov showed a picture of a plant looking like that one, but yellowish, naming it P campanulata. Olga and I had an interesting discussion about it during an escape lunch in Tábor. We had a quick check at Internet and we realized that almost all European pictures featured a blue flowering plant that seems to follow the description of Flora of Russia. While all the Russian*/Asian pictures seemed to look like the one Jozef now show. Please observe that the stamens are longer than the sepals in Jozefīs picture. The sepals are hardly not reflexed. Do you have any pictures of the leaves, Jozef?
Is there anyone who can clearify this? I have no time to check with Aichele & Schwimmer as it is a very extended work in German, which I do not speak. Keiser just quotes Flora of Russia and Flora of China claims it is a erect-flowering species, similar to pratensis, belonging to the albana group.
Flora of Russia says" ...stamens just slightly shorter than tepals...flowers more or less declinate, campanulate; tepals 20-27 mm long, 3-13 mm broad, with reflexed tips, violet-blue..." And of course, a lot about the leaves...
The confusion is about the same in the NARGSīs forum. Some showing the blue-flowering plant, some the plant with yellowish very hairy flowers. You also find some pictures of different albana forms claiming it is campanella. I am happy that Kelaidis- which is a heavy "name", states that albana is not campanella.
The flowers of Jozefīs images has more or less the shape of P wallichiana, which is said to be an endemic of Pakistan and Kashmir. It is very interesting, as Flora of Russia describes something quite different.
I can not find any photos of the wallichiana at internet. The only one I have got is Dr Ikanenīs, which showes a plant grown by him. He thinks it is wallichiana, but I tend to think it is the species we see in several images, growing much closer to Finland than is Pakistan.
[attachimg=1]
Image from Flora of Pakistan of P wallichiana
[attachimg=2]
Dr Timo Ikanenīs picuture. It looks very much like the campanella form Olga, Jozef and Harry Jans( below) shows.
[attachimg=3]
This picture is from Kyrgyztan, image by Harry Jans. This beautiful plant looks the same as the plant Epiktetov showed from Kazakhstan.
My plants, with blue flowers ( shown earlier in the thread) comes from Mojmir Pavelka seeds, and also RMRP ( Which might be a little out of the way as they operated from Northamerica)
* To all Russian readers, please do not feel offended. I do know Russia has an European part as well.
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Back again, still thinking of the same subject; the confusion about P campanella. I really hope that someone is preparing a long, interesting and clearifying answer to my posts.
I have been out in the rain ( the Scotts seem to think rain and cold is very typical Scottish? I think it is typical Swedish) taking pictures of the plant I have got from Mr Pavelka ( seeds) as P campanella. This is the form you find on most of the European photos. Of course it might just be because we all have it from the same source. Still, I want to be absolutely sure that we are wrong and that the yellowish form is the true species. The difference of the color does not make me wonder, as a lot of species vary in color and leaf shape. But it is so much hairier, and the stamens are much longer than the sepals ( or are all the pictures taken very late in the end of the flowering period?) and it does not exactly match the description of Flora of Russia?
[attachimg=1
Flower of the plant that is very common in Europe as campanella.
][attachimg=2]
Leaves of the plant
[attachimg=3]
Leaves of the plant to the left, to have a comparishment. The leave to the the right is from seeds from Holubec received as P turczaninovii, but that Olga has had a long discussion earlier in this thread, proving it is P ambigua. As you can see, the leaves differ in color, size and texture, and also in hairiness.
Now I leave this to you others to solve, as I am heading for the parts of our world where P rubra grows. Unfortunally spring is very late in Picos de Europa, northern Spain, My botanist friend there tells me I might not be able to see it in flower. P alpina ssp alpina and ssp alba also grows in the area, and so do P vernalis. I hope to see at least some Pulsatillas, and not only Narcissus and oaks.
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Susann, I hope these pics will help a little bit.
Have a nice trip to the Picos.
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... Just appear to say Jozef's P. campanella looks true.
Images etc will come tomorrow...
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Thank you Jozef for the pictures, and the trouble you have taken with paper background, measure stick and all. I can clearly see that the leaves differs a lot from my plants. ( I do not know the origin of the RMRP seeds. unfortunally I have not made a note. But it looks the same as the plant from Mr Pavelkaīs seed). By the way, the leaves of your plant is actually very nice. Or might I say very very nice? They also differ from the leaves of Dr Ikanenīs plant.
I got some seeds from Olgaīs campanella. I think it was last year, or two years ago? Anyway, there are now two seedlings. I will repot them tomorrow, before leaving. I hope they will be as nice as the mother plant, that she has showed earlier in this thread, very yellow. Also, a few P occidentalis has germinated in a pot left from last year. As all the seedlings of last year drowned, I am very happy to have a few more ( to kill...) Now, we just have to hope that nature, slugs and dear neighbor treat them with care while I am gone.
Olga, if you have got time, please try to post your images and a nice and clearifying text tomorrow. (And please have a close look at the stamens) It would be so nice not have to wonder about this anymore. My plants do not have as finely divided leaves as turczaninovii. It is not ambigua. And, one of the plants is very tall ( If trying to think of bungeana as they have more broadly divided leaves? ). My plants flower all summer. I remember we agreed on that is typically for campanella? The seeds are wildcollected. I can not think of more information right now.
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The confusion is about the same in the NARGSīs forum. Some showing the blue-flowering plant, some the plant with yellowish very hairy flowers. You also find some pictures of different albana forms claiming it is campanella. I am happy that Kelaidis- which is a heavy "name", states that albana is not campanella.
I have been reading this thread but am still not sure if I'm grasping the subtleties of the different IDs correctly. I'd be delighted to correct my records and anything I've posted on the NARGS site if someone could help me with a couple of IDs. :)
I've posted some photos here:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10492.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10492.0)
Thanks in advance!
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Now I am at home and can post some Pulsatillas and answer. :)
Susann is that your bed of Pulsatillas? :o Great!
But I do not wonder they hybridize easily. They are so closely planted.
I see the same Papageno in our gardens. :) I just shoot some mine.
(http://cs9631.vk.me/v9631879/e1/Xe6Hv_Zv3Fc.jpg)
(http://cs9631.vk.me/v9631879/d9/n54KzQPugXw.jpg)
(http://cs9631.vk.me/v9631879/d1/p00_pWzODgg.jpg)
(http://cs319421.vk.me/v319421879/9ac4/WQKqVe763KY.jpg)
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Pulsatilla vulgaris Perlen Glocke is one of my favorite.
(http://cs319421.vk.me/v319421879/9aa0/nnRsGusV-Ng.jpg)
(http://cs409421.vk.me/v409421879/c81/DQc4o_MEoMs.jpg)
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Pulsatilla albana with self sown Fritillaria ruthenica
(http://cs319421.vk.me/v319421879/9acc/y_D41fC7XDo.jpg)
Pulsatilla ambigua
(http://cs406326.vk.me/v406326879/8c0f/x5faBA1P2fQ.jpg)
Pulsatilla subslavica
(http://cs409421.vk.me/v409421879/b54/aWHz5Zmir0U.jpg)
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And mysterious Pulsatilla campanella. :)
This is true P. campanella from seed I put in Tian-Shan in 2004. All plants are the same (I have 7). No hybrids with other species. Most of seeds are not viable. Now I pollinate plants with a brush for better setting.
(http://cs406326.vk.me/v406326879/8c17/3TMnji7cCwM.jpg)
It is the tiniest species I've ever seen. Flowers are small. Stamens become longer than petals during the blooming.
And this is wrong Pulsatilla I've got from the same (I think) sourse under P. campanella name.
(http://cs406326.vk.me/v406326879/8c2f/OzByeM5zNV0.jpg)
It is much higher. Petals become longer and longer (and longer than stamens) during the blooming. Of course it is not P. campanella. And I am finding a difficulty in identifying it. It is not P. ambigua or P. turczaninovii. It could not be P. bungeana because of it's size.
Jozef's P. campanella is brownish. It is right. It could be brownish or purplish from some locations. Josef, I would be pleased to swap seeds. :)
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Oh,
more confusion, and no time to think... The yellow one you show Olga, is what I -and all the Czechs- grow as a P albana form. You see it in all gardens, somethims labelled P albana f alboviolacea?
Your mysterious plant does not look quite like mine, mine are much more blue. But no time to study your pictures right now, I need to repot the seedlings I found yesterday. I have been interrupted the whole day by neighbors.
Yes, the īPapagenoīare very very tightly together, as if they were carrots. But it looks quite nice. Other species are spread out in rockeries and borders. But the garden is not very big, only 1500 m2, so they do hybridize, and very nicely.
Letīs keep discussing my questions when I am back! Meanwhile; please keep posting beautiful photos from your gardens and nature all over the world.
[attachimg=1]
this form I have got several times from different collectors as an albana form
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more confusion, and no time to think... The yellow one you show Olga, is what I -and all the Czechs- grow as a P albana form. You see it in all gardens, somethims labelled P albana f alboviolacea?
No confusions. :) It is Pulsatilla campanella. True. I collected it's seed in 2004 in Tian-Shan in thousands km from places where P. albana grows. :) You can see yellow P. albana above. It differs. And it is true because of the same reason - it is directly from nature.
I can shoot P campanella again tomorrow with marcescent flowers.
... or is there any misunderstanding? How yellowish plant can be called alboviolacea? What picture are you talking about?
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Oh, I could not stay away. I was thinking while repotting, doing the dishes and taking a shower... And now I have a question to answer to, so it was good I could not resist logging in again.
The flower you showed are in all the Czech gardens, named as P albana. I have received it several times as P albana and ssp albana. In some gardens it is more light yellow, almost creme, and with more purplish backside. I have seen the label "alboviolacea". For example; Mr Vlasak names it that way. In Sweden I have seen the light yellow form with a cultivar name; `Mauveī. I have several photos from Czech gardens but they are all in RAW. I add a picture of what in Sweden is called `Mauveī, it seems -at a quick glance- be very similar to your plan?. I am probably, as usual, wrong...The leaves might be more finely divided? I also add a picture of what Peter Korn thinks is campanella, probably collected by Stellan somewhere in Kazakhstan/ Kyrgysthan.
[attachimg=1]
"Mauve"
[attachimg=2]
Peter Kornīs plant
Sorry to be so stubborn; but are you sure your plant is the same species as Epiktetovīs, Janīs and Jozefīs? ( I do accept it is not an albana) The ones I have that looks a lot like yours never show so tightly short and hairy sepals in the beginning? Please, see Jozefīs and Mr Janīs pictures and tell us what you think? The dark color is also more uniform in their pictures? I am really sorry I keep asking and asking and asking. So much confusion. ( Yes, I understand that you do not feel confused, Olga, but I do, and apparently a lot of others too)
[attachimg=3]
Finally, here is the picture meant to be published in my last post. It was taken yesterday in my garden, seeds received as P albana.
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Susann, I am thinking about Pulsatillas a lot too. :) And after all conversations I have some ideas.
But now about the plant. Yes my plant(s) is the same species with Vladimir's and Janīs and Jozefīs. :) I know it. Do you remember images of previous years?
(http://cs885.vk.me/u6450879/97775300/x_a9387645.jpg)
I grow P. albana yellow, whitish and violacea forms. They differs in their flowers.
Color of P. campanella flowers depends on location.
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30894.html (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30894.html)
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That is a very lovely photo Olga. From what I can see all the forms of campanella have rather demure flowers where the tepals do not reflex outwards, and from the viewpoint of successful pollination this may be why the stamens are often strongly exserted (Jozef's plant is a really good example of this). These two plants that I saw in Czech gardens (like Susann says) must be albana (and are definitely what is grown in the UK under this name). Maybe these two species intergrade in places? The pictures on the website you show are really valuable in demonstrating the natural variation in campanella - colour doesn't seem to be a strong distinguishing feature.
The third picture I have come round to calling ambigua after your discussions and pictures. There is a lot of confusion amongst gardeners and I was given the names bungeana and turczaninovii, and presumably all these three species have close similarities. I think this was my favourite pulsatilla of all; a very elegant plant.
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All those beautiful Pulsatillas!
After a very long and cold spring the warm weather paid us a visit for a few days. We went to our mountain cabin where the snow had barely gone, just a few patches left. The lake was however still icecovered.
The only flowering plant except a few sedges was the mogop, Pulsatilla vernalis. From snow one day to + 22C the next day! The buds opened quickly. A few were eaten by hares (or elks), they are always there in the spring nibbling the first green stuff appearing in the meadow. A frog crawled out of a heap of snow probably woken by the sunrays penetrating to the bottom of the snowcover.
We got a thunderstorm after the very hot day and the flowers shut for the night.
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Some butterflies also were awakened by the warmth!
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@susann
this is an older foto of a Pulsatilla got as "campanella" from a german nursery, which is specialized on alpines. i know, that his seed sources often come from czechia. the seed source Pavelka could be rather likely. meanwhile i lost the plants but collected seed before + distributed them. i got seed back + now growing some seedlings. a conspicuousness i remember were the petals...the inner ones were a bit longer than the outer ones, especially to see, when the flower closes. but of course, this Pulsatilla has nothing to do with the true campanella, olga showed. but what could it be?
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Although Susann is out here for P. rubra I'd like to post images I promised. P. campanella another (cloudy!) day. Very typical look I think.
(http://cs406326.vk.me/v406326879/8cd9/BPU8CELOHeI.jpg)
(http://cs406326.vk.me/v406326879/8cd1/q8NjseExixY.jpg)
(http://cs406326.vk.me/v406326879/8cc9/rjnH5Yd8ZG0.jpg)
(http://cs406326.vk.me/v406326879/8cc1/uhYH8PhvypU.jpg)
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Trond, I am so envious you can go and see wild Pulsatillas! Beautiful vernalis!
greenspan, I also have this blue one. No suggestions sorry. By the way leaves are very similar to P. campanella and P. albana.
Thank you Tim! I am not sure about your blue flowered plant. But I totally agree it is extremely beautiful and elegant. :)
I'd like to find true P. bungeana. It is a species seems never seen in culture. According to literature and herbarium it should be very small, 5-8 cm tall.
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i got this plant as Pulsatilla bungeana ssp. tenuiloba in 2009 from a german nursery. don't know if it was labelled correct. it only flowers in 2011, still alive but never flowered again. the leaves are very ..wispy? thin? (don't know the right english term).
[attachimg=1]
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i got this plant as Pulsatilla bungeana ssp. tenuiloba in 2009 from a german nursery. don't know if it was labelled correct. it only flowers in 2011, still alive but never flowered again. the leaves are very ..wispy? thin? (don't know the right english term).
I like your nursery! :)
The plant looks very interesting and could be P. bungeana or P. tenuiloba! Sad it does not flower.
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the leaves are very ..wispy? thin? (don't know the right english term).
'wispy' is a good term for such leaves - they are delicate, light and feather-like = wispy 8)
We also use the word for "wisps of straw" - tiny thin pieces of straw, such as might blow around.
Lovely foliage on your plant and the blue is beautiful - I hope you can restore it to flower in future years - no matter what it is calle ;)
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For more variety Pulsatilla - recent blooming.
Pulsatilla ambiqua - seeds of my collecting - Khamar-Daban.
[attachimg=1]
Pulsatilla alpina - seeds of Polar Alpine Botanical Garden(Kirovsk)
[attachimg=2]
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Greenspan, you are quicker than me. I was waiting for taking a picture until this Scottish weather should have gone back home ::). In the meantime some of the flowers are already damaged.
This is a Josef Jurasek collection from Mongolia (2003).
There are 2 plants on the picture and between them is a slight difference in flower colour.
Pulsatilla bungeana v. tenuiloba 'JJ-464/03'
[attach=1] [attach=2] [attach=3]
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This is a Josef Jurasek collection from Mongolia (2003).
Yes! It should be true. Thank you very much Jozef!
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One of my P. albana show fasciation this year.
(http://cs421725.vk.me/v421725879/3b95/w0b-jN3jn3o.jpg)
P. dahurica starts to bloom. It's not of real beauty for me. But it is very vigorous and has the most impressive seed heads.
(http://cs421725.vk.me/v421725879/3b8d/XWw7NkgFtxo.jpg)
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Trond, I am so envious you can go and see wild Pulsatillas! Beautiful vernalis!
Hi Olga, I did believe that you were able to see a lot of wild Pulsatilla species! And many are as beautiful as vernalis ;)
You have very beautiful pics of them anyway!
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@jozef
please tell a bit about the substrate you are using for the P. bungeana ssp. tenuiloba. is it a place in full sun or semishade? do you fertilize your plants?
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@jozef
please tell a bit about the substrate you are using for the P. bungeana ssp. tenuiloba. is it a place in full sun or semishade? do you fertilize your plants?
I have these plants in normal clayish garden soil mixed with a lot of grit.
They get full sun from about 1 PM till sunset. And I use a Geranium fertilizer twice a year (May and July).
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thank you jozef. i have no clay/loam in my garden, but sandy-humus soil. i'll give them some fertilizer.
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Hi, a few years ago after I tried in vain to get P. flavescens, I no longer am so busy with Pulsatilla.
But now when I read through here as the threat and see the great pictures (@ Olga:! Thank you :o )
I will, "very nervous";-)
Unfortunately, my attempts were raised from seed - and with gibberellic acid) failed :-(
more ..... if I read in this forum so that will be definitely not good for me ;D ;D ;D
Greetings
Bernd
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Bernd, if you live high enough and have strong winters P. flavescens can be very good for you. It is easy from seed. I sow it every year. No need in gibberellic acid, only surface sowing. Seed save viability 5 years at least.
Trond, Pulsatilla can never be too much. :)
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Thank you! Yes, I live near the mountains, about 850 MSL. The winters are quite long and cold and it can easily be -28 °.
On the ground we have gravel, with clay. Calcareous, stop what the Lech brings from the Alps and has heaped so.
The floor is probably ideal for Cypripedium and Paeonia.
The experiments for seeding: I've ordered by mail, seeds of J. Halda, CZ. No idea how old were and how were stored.
The flavescens I had long sought but never found a source for seeds or plants.
Greetings from Allgaeu (near castle "Neuschwanstein")
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Bernd, all you describe is good for P. flavescens. You have good chances! :) What a pity you haven't been to the Conference, I shared some P. flavescens seed. Hope it will become not rare plant soon. :)
Love it. :)
(http://cs7004.vk.me/c319922/v319922879/a706/5ZGSL-qOgho.jpg)
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:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
lechz :'(
@Olga: :-*
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Bernd, if you live high enough and have strong winters P. flavescens can be very good for you. It is easy from seed. I sow it every year. No need in gibberellic acid, only surface sowing. Seed save viability 5 years at least.
yes, sowing with fresh harvested seed shows best results. the problems begin with dried seed, older than a year or more.
hm...your hints to the need for cold of the flavescens might be the reason for my problems with this wonderful Pulsatilla (elevation ~300m sl). maybe i should plant the Pulsatilla patens ssp. flavescens in a more shady place? does ssp. flavescens needs loam or lime in the soil? till now i grow it in a light acid humus rich + sandy soil. maybe this is wrong?
btw...a wonderful clear yellow color + a vigorous stock olga...chapeau!
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Hi, i would like to try flavescens, but over 3 years i couldnt get seed or plants. :'(
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check frequently (german) nurseries like "eidmann", "floralpin" or "arktisch-alpiner-garten". sometimes they offer Pulsatilla (mostly seed sources from czech-gardeners i guess). e.g. i got real P. turczaninovii last month from eidmann (i checked the leaves as i learned from olga -> triternate, not the biternate leaf of the often as "turczaninovii" offered ambigua) or P. aurea from arktisch-alpiner-garten in april. the P. patens ssp. flavescens came from floralpin a few years ago. but i have to say, that they made a "dirty" yellow, far away from the clear yellow color of olga's plant.
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Super, thank you! Eidmann was still unknown to me. Although he has at the moment - like the others - no flavescens,
but otherwise a lot of nice things :-)
Bernd
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Pulsatilla enthusiasts with deep pockets will be pleased to hear that Kit Grey-Wilson's monograph is due for publication this autumn;
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/publications/books/sales/specificgenera/PasqueFlowers+The+Genus+Pulsatilla/296/ (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/publications/books/sales/specificgenera/PasqueFlowers+The+Genus+Pulsatilla/296/)
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thx gail for the hint. 8) i'm ags member, so my pocket can be a bit shorter. ;D
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i'm ags member, so my pocket can be a bit shorter. ;D
Me too, but I know I will still be in trouble when I put my order in. ;D
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Reading the blurb about the book that came with the AGS journal, it seems more of a 'print on demand' than a true limited edition.
Perhaps the cost could be recouped by taking bets on when Kit will decide to re-name everything ...... ::) ;)
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I am sure it will be a wonderful book though because Kit is the consummate botanist and photographer, and pulsatillas are so photogenic as Susann and Olga and others have shown so well. I imagine there might be some debate about nomenclature when it comes out! That might be good because more and more people are likely to grow them.
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Reading the blurb about the book that came with the AGS journal, it seems more of a 'print on demand' than a true limited edition.
Perhaps the cost could be recouped by taking bets on when Kit will decide to re-name everything ...... ::) ;)
You know him so well....... ;) :P
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Reading the blurb about the book that came with the AGS journal, it seems more of a 'print on demand' than a true limited edition.
Perhaps the cost could be recouped by taking bets on when Kit will decide to re-name everything ...... ::) ;)
Your are so rude, Maggi, but yes...You do know him very well it seems. Still, I have been waiting for the book for many years and will read it with great interest. Anything written about Pulsatilla is very interesting, and in nice sorroundings as in a book, even more nice. But, I am afraid it will not put much light to our thoughts and questions. It is a very difficult genera, and I think anyone trying to write about it is just giving his or her opinion or conclusion, being botanist or not. I wish I was wrong.
Happy to be back among you friends again! I am supposed to write a very long article, but as you know it is very boring; so I decided I just had to have a very quick glance at the tread. It is such a long time I ago I rwas here that I had forgotten one has to login to write a post. Sorry, I feel ashamed. You had written a lot and posted so many beautiful pictures while I have been absent. I have to re-read it all another day.
I have been in Picos de Europa twice since the conference in Prague, searching for the P rubra. I have beautiful pictures, but still in RAW, although I have finally learnt how to convert them to jpeg. So pics will come later on. It was a very interesting find as it does not match what "the books" says about the habitat. But more about that another day, when I will post the pictures. I am more and more convinced that the only way to understand this genera is to go to every place where it grows to study it in situ. ( As if Olga has not ready pointed that out!)
I am still looking for companionship for the big trip to Central Asia next year. If you have not red about it, please contact me, or read my ad under "Travel". It is 6-7 weeks to study Pulsatilla loacalities.
Well, if I want to go anywhere to see anything, I better start writing that article...
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I am not rude, I hope, Susann - rather world weary, perhaps and somewhat sceptical! :)
It seems to me that it is highly risky to attempt to be claim anything definitively about things in the plant world - to me it seems the only certainty is uncertainty.
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Oh, I just wiped my whole post out. I will try again. I just did not want to have you waiting any longer; as I know at least one person who is longing to see this.
[attach=1]
Searching for Pulsatilla vernalis at 1 860 m ...
[attach=2]
... and found her!
[attachimg=3]
Same slope ten days later. A heaven for those who like vernalis, hundreds and hundreds of them. Unfortunally the clouds were just around the corner with no sight at all. I tried to make it darker to make it possible for you to see the beautiful rock behind. Sorry for the very strange image
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Not far away, at 1875 m
[attachimg=1]
Not looking very bad, is she, the Pulsatilla rubra?
[attach=2]
Most of them were very dark, but we also found a few very light colored forms.
[attach=3]
This is at 1913 m, which was the peak of this slope.
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Exciting! P. flavescens is starting to germinate here, so the others may follow soon.
Thanks again Olga :-*
Wonderful rubra Susann. Were these photos taken in late June?
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Yes Ashley, you are correct, the images are recently shot, around 20th June.
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@susann
here a photo of my P. rubra showing the current status with a metric scale to compare the leaves with the rubra form of picos de europa.
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@susann
to compare the leaves with the rubra form of picos de europa.
As far as I can tell by your photo the leaves look very similar, they have a very special ending or tip of the leaves. Are your leaves hairy? If you can post a photo of a single leave in a close-up it would be a little easier for me to have an opinion. My glasses are a few years too old for my sight I think. But, the choice between bying new glasses (again) and a trip somewhere is easily done and unfortunally not to the glasses favor.
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Are viruses "common" in pulsatilla?
This pot was in the middle of many other potted species (including other Pulsatilla spp.). It's the only one affected, so I don't see that it could be anthing else. Last season it looked normal.
Pulsatilla ambigua
[attach=1]
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I've never noticed anything like that on pulsatillas Rick - but viruses are totally ubiquitous and their effects often not phenotypically expressed, so maybe certain growing conditions have led to the uncharacteristic growth. Anemone nemorosa often gets a contorted growth (caused by a mycoplasma I think) which makes the leaves larger and distorted, and is a scourge for nurserymen who collect and propagate them, but in the garden it does seem to come and go. Those leaves remind me of that a little.
Maggi - I wouldn't be too sceptical and certainly not world weary; at least having names gives something to argue about! I remember talking to Jim Archibald about peonies (as a real neophyte) and of course the more expert you become the less you agree with anyone else! (But at least you are likely to be closer to other experts who have seen the plants in Nature or your own garden, and Jim unusually had done both). I suggested, light heartedly, that such plants should be just referred to by map reference (a bit like seed collectors using satellite navigation), but I think we have a natural tendency to 'split', that is give names to visible differences between plants, whereas in fact genetic differences are much more fundamental but much more difficult to measure (and anyway not so interesting to the gardener!). It is always most instructive when you read about plants from someone who has studied and grown them over a long period (like David Wilkie's writings on gentians). The high cost of many recent Plant Monographs, though, does make you wonder if they have a sufficient audience or even if the Web has begun to supersede them? I hope not because I would like to write something myself!
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@tim:
Referring to monographs; I have been told that Timber now tries to avoid it as it is as you say, the audience is now too small for them to make as much money as they want. Grey-Wilsonīs book was originally ment to be released by Timber, quite some years ago. Of course, I do not know whom withdrew, Timber Press or Grey-Wilson.
Another subject; I was writing to a Pulsatilla friend yesterday, commenting that I have never had such bad pollination as this year. It affects all species of Pulsatillas, but not other genera as far as I can see. Of course, I was away most of the spring and therefore I can not tell about cold spells or lack of insects or what might be the course? I know that Pulsatilla has a "speciality", that the first and last flowers of the plant or population often tend not to give viable seeds. But now I am talking about all my Pulsatillas, except the big P vulgaris hybrids that are kept in the vegetable plot, in neat and tight rows. Has anyone else experienced the same this year? And if so, where do you live?
I remember that in the conference in Prague, a lot of people from all over said their spring was very late this year.
In nature we have few blueberries this year, they are ripe right now. But the Vaccinium vitis-idaea will give a good harvest, the plants are full. But they ripe later, so there might be a clue, less insects this spring?
[attachimg=1]
I know I have shown these images of not viable seeds before, but I post them again, tin case anyone has missed them.
[attachimg=2]
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Referring to monographs; I have been told that Timber now tries to avoid it as it is as you say, the audience is now too small for them to make as much money as they want. Grey-Wilsonīs book was originally ment to be released by Timber, quite some years ago. Of course, I do not know whom withdrew, Timber Press or Grey-Wilson.
I think you will find it was Timber Press, Kit gave our local AGS a talk on pulsatillas with photos 'from the book' which was super and I vaguely remember him saying that TP were wavering then.
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No viable seed:
I can confirm similar observation on my earliest of all Pulsatillas, P. halleri ssp. rhodopaea.
Flower buds were up already end of February and due to the long cold it did last until mid of April to finally open flowers.
Two issues occurred - too long bud stage causes loss of viability and lack of pollinators at flowering time.
All later flowering Pulsatillas have a good seed set.
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All later flowering Pulsatillas have a good seed set.
Thank you for your information. I have "the problem" with all species, early ones or late ones.
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I know that Pulsatilla has a "speciality", that the first and last flowers of the plant or population often tend not to give viable seeds.
the reason might be the proterogynous flowers. i guess that this flower behaviour of the genus Pulsatilla could also be a reason for a bad seed set if you only have a few specimens of a species whatever the weather conditions are. the more specimens the better seed set because enough flowers occur with different ripening status of stigmas + pollen. so cold weather periods with lack of insects, late maturing pollen and finished conception of the stigmas (sorry, didn't find a translation) might be the reason for a bad seed year.
susann, i didn't cut a leaf of my P. rubra, but on this photo you can see details of leaf + stalk...the lower leaf surface + the stalks are hairy, the upper surface of the leaves are glabrous. if your glasses are too bad...use the image zoom possibility of the firefox browser (rightclick + scrolling the mouse wheel ;D ;))
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@ greenspan: I am sorry, I am not very well at the moment, I will answer your post as soon as possibly. Meantime; thank you so very much telling me about the rightclick. I did of course not know about it. I fell so stupid!
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the reason might be the proterogynous flowers.
Yes, you are right I think, as they are proterogynous it means that the first flowers has some problems getting pollinated, also because they are not very happy self pollinating ( But very happy crossing with other species). But the problem is also, I think, that if spring is late as this year, the Pulsatillas start to flower later than usual, as they decide to flower due to temperature. And, when they are later in the season the cycle of flowering is much faster and perhaps the insects has not had time to wake up/ or be born? The latest flowers have to compete with the emerging of the basal leaves, and I think that is why they often decide not to be viable. It might be as a competition of energy waste and the leaves being more important for the individual survivence? I am not a botanist, these are just my guessings.
But I have to admit I was lying before, when I -twice- wrote that the P vulgaris in the vegetable plot had germinated as usual. That was not true. I had a closer look the other day. Lots and lots of beautiful seed heads but very few are actually containing viable seeds. It really must to have something to do with the faster cycle and lack of insects this year? I have more than one, often many of each species, but as they also hybridize with their cousins, that should not really be the problem? And especially not in the crowded P vulgaris "locality"?
on this photo you can see details of leaf + stalk...the lower leaf surface + the stalks are hairy, the upper surface of the leaves are glabrous. if your glasses are too bad...use the image zoom possibility of the firefox browser (rightclick + scrolling the mouse wheel ;D ;))
Of course, I am not an expert because I have seen one locality of P rubra but I have really tried to compare your leaves, structure and hairyness color; and I think they look quite similar but not identical. Your plant is in a later part of emerge that were the flowers in Picos. Both your leaves, leaves of plant in my garden and pictures from Picos and the only leave I collected -as it is a national park- look quite similar.
(Now someone I know very well will laugh at me being so Swedish obeying the rules. But that was very lucky as we "got caught" by the Guardia Civil). However, your flowers are more red that what we saw. But that is also what the litterature tells, that the sometimes called ssp hispanica is more towards very dark lilac than the French form.
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Just back from the Dolomites where it is very early in the season (it snowed twice while we were there). Pulsatilla vernalis was in bloom everywhere the snow was melting. Joe kept saying, "I think that's enough pictures", but having hiked with Cliff Booker. I know you can never take too many pictures. To see the pulsatillas everywhere was spectacular. (I didn't take enough pictures).
1, Pulsatilla vernalis
2. Pulsatille vernalis en masse
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Superb, Anne ... and in locations as beautiful as this it is impossible to take too many pictures. :D ;)
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Cliff, I said that to Joe but he really wanted to move on. Incidentally, there was also Ranunculus pyrenaeus (sp?) in the same area and Pulsatilla alpina apiifolia, the latter barely starting. We saw Pulsatilla vernalis like this on two occasions, just amazing. Incidentally, the grass you see in the photo is incredibly slippery and it's a steep slope.
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Cliff, I said that to Joe but he really wanted to move on. Incidentally, there was also Ranunculus pyrenaeus (sp?) in the same area and Pulsatilla alpina apiifolia, the latter barely starting. We saw Pulsatilla vernalis like this on two occasions, just amazing. Incidentally, the grass you see in the photo is incredibly slippery and it's a steep slope.
Possibly R. kuepferi, Anne ... we have seen it quite often in this type of habitat.
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How do they differ, Cliff? I'll put on a picture later for further i.d.
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How do they differ, Cliff? I'll put on a picture later for further i.d.
Hi Anne - there is a magnificent image of R. kuepferi (so typical) on:-
http://alpinestock.com/flora_fauna_g53-k (http://alpinestock.com/flora_fauna_g53-k)üpfers_hahnenfuss_ranunculus_kuepferi__p3297.html
Amended : It seems that this image has been removed from this site even though a search on Google brings it up. Apologies.
I will search through my own files for a typical image.
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That link did work for me, Cliff. ( it came up as
http://alpinestock.com/details.php?gid=53&pid=3297 (http://alpinestock.com/details.php?gid=53&pid=3297) )
Peter Maguire has a photo of it here in the Forum :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3870.msg102484#msg102484 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=3870.msg102484#msg102484)
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Many thanks, Maggi ... you have saved me a prolonged search. Lovely photo from Peter as usual.
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What a coincidence, pic taken a week ago in Switzerland (just returned from hols and more pix soon ;D ;D )
Ranunculus kuepferi
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Welcome "home" Anne and Diane :)
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Here are two pictures of what I've been calling Ranunculus pyrenaeus. Is there a height difference between the two species? What is the definitive difference?
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Here are two pictures of what I've been calling Ranunculus pyrenaeus. Is there a height difference between the two species? What is the definitive difference?
The difference is geographical. R pyrenaeus is only in the Pyrenees. R kuepferi occurs across the Alps. It used to be named R pyrenaeus ssp platagineus and is therefore closely related to R pyrenaeus
Ranunculus kuepferi (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=cs&u=http://botany.cz/cs/ranunculus-kuepferi/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dranunculus%2Bkuepferi%2BAND%2Bpyrenaeus%26biw%3D1240%26bih%3D635)
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Diane, thank you so much. Now I'll have to figure out which one is in my garden. I grew it from seed a few years ago and I don't recall the source.
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Blooming now in northern hemisphere, about 5 months late!
Seed grown as Pulsatilla bungeana wild collected in Russia, Altai Mtns, Semisker Pass- by G Bohme of Germany- NARGS 2008-09 seed list
Is this tiny plant named correctly?
It is purple not blue
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My yellow Pulsatilla
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My next yellow Pulsatilla
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Very lovely yellows, Egon.
You will see I have moved them to this thread.
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Very nice, Egon -I never realised how many yellow ones there were!
You've grown them very well; thanks for sharing your pics,
cheers
fermi
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I agree with Fermi,
very lovely yellows.
Do you grow them in acid soil (non-calcareous soil), Egon?
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Hi Anne - there is a magnificent image of R. kuepferi (so typical) on:-
http://alpinestock.com/flora_fauna_g53-k (http://alpinestock.com/flora_fauna_g53-k)üpfers_hahnenfuss_ranunculus_kuepferi__p3297.html
Amended : It seems that this image has been removed from this site even though a search on Google brings it up. Apologies.
I will search through my own files for a typical image.
ranunculus, You split the url in two portions. Therefore it was not working.
http://alpinestock.com/flora_fauna_g53-küpfers_hahnenfuss_ranunculus_kuepferi__p3297.html (http://alpinestock.com/flora_fauna_g53-küpfers_hahnenfuss_ranunculus_kuepferi__p3297.html)
is working.
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Many thanks Josef.
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Acidic soil needed only for Pulsatilla alpina apiifolia. For Pulsatilla patens have alkaline soil and the other can grow in neutral soil.
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Acidic soil needed only for Pulsatilla alpina apiifolia. For Pulsatilla patens have alkaline soil and the other can grow in neutral soil.
I'm not convinced this applies in cultivation. It might prefer acid soil in the wild but does well on our limestone rock garden in a pH of 7.7.
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If, in my life-time, we ever get a run of more than one dry day at a time I've got lots of tidying up to do and wondered if now would be the right time to snip-off Pulsatilla vulgaris foliage please?
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Stil great Pulsatillas in this topic.
Here a very late surprise .........Pulsatilla tatewaki .
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If, in my life-time, we ever get a run of more than one dry day at a time I've got lots of tidying up to do and wondered if now would be the right time to snip-off Pulsatilla vulgaris foliage please?
Not that it's stopped raining but any reply would be welcomed please.
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It's started raining here, David :P
I wouldn't be inclined to cut off the old foliage yet - I think the old thatch makes a sort of semi waterproof cover for any overwintering parts to give some protection. Mind you, perhaps if I lived in a wetter area I'd be more worried about new growths becoming rotten with the wet :-\
Then again, unless you are very careful, it is very easy to damage new growths - or indeed cut them right off, if you are clumsy when trimming in spring.
So, on balance, given my capacity to be careless, yes, I would trim them now. ::)
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;D ;D ;D
That's what I like Maggi, a girl who makes decisions and sticks to 'em :-*
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Why bother and go outside in the rain now, David? I never cut the leaves of Pulsatilla or any other hardy plants in autumn and Pulsatilla leaves are much easier to take away in spring after some frosts without using scissors etc.
And I don't believe P. will give less flowers when leaving the leaves over winter ;)
And.... I admit being a lazy gardener as well ;D ;D
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Thank you Luit, I like you decision making processes ;D
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I've broken too many pulsatilla shoots in the past by pulling them off with reluctant foliage in Spring - it's a scissors job for me.
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Hi!
Pulsatilla in My Garden...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EPzIc3WL7wg/T3dl6JMvyVI/AAAAAAAARKc/-uuqk881NsQ/s640/IMG_9543.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Bw_ikWLZjuI/T3dl-eRjtrI/AAAAAAAARKc/M7mqBcNhEd8/s640/IMG_9629.JPG)
Best Regards! zvone
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Wow stunning ;)
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Pulsatilla enthusiasts with deep pockets will be pleased to hear that Kit Grey-Wilson's monograph is due for publication this autumn;
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/publications/books/sales/specificgenera/PasqueFlowers+The+Genus+Pulsatilla/296/ (http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/publications/books/sales/specificgenera/PasqueFlowers+The+Genus+Pulsatilla/296/)
The AGS has announced the cancellation of the publication of 'Pasque Flowers' by Christopher Grey-Wilson, citing production problems relating to poor image quality.
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The AGS has announced the cancellation of the publication of 'Pasque Flowers' by Christopher Grey-Wilson, citing production problems relating to poor image quality.
:'(
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The AGS has announced the cancellation of the publication of 'Pasque Flowers' by Christopher Grey-Wilson, citing production problems relating to poor image quality.
They also say he is planning to self-publish, but if the quality issues remain, what is the point?
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David; taking the old leaves of in autumn? Wow, you must really have a lot of spare time? I have never taken the leaves off. I think nature made them to stay where they are to for example protect young buds from night frost besides all what Maggi already has written. If not, they would have fallen off, wouldnīt they?
And regarding the book...Turned down by Timber press, by AGS...Now I do not know what to think. I have been waiting for four years to read it. I hope someone else gets the stupid idea to write on this totally impossible genus :)
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Who knows where I can buy the seeds Pulsatilla miyakea integrifolia?
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David; taking the old leaves of in autumn? Wow, you must really have a lot of spare time? I have never taken the leaves off. I think nature made them to stay where they are to for example protect young buds from night frost besides all what Maggi already has written. If not, they would have fallen off, wouldnīt they?
David, I fully agree with Susann. I might have been wrong supposing the old leaves in spring could be taken off without scissors in spring, but I admit that I never took them away. Well I am not such a tidy gardener probably ::) :-X
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You should all see that I've had 43 years of being moaned at because I'm untidy indoors and now I can't get it right if I want to be tidy outdoors ??? ::) ;D
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I find in our climate that the new growth gets badly impeded by tangling in the old soggy foliage if it is not trimmed.....
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I photographed against my custom differently haired Pulsatilla grandis in the above mentioned locality at the outskirts of the city of Brno in the spring. Now I could provide you scanned prints. The colours are white, yellow and amber.
The majority of plants are white-haired.
[attach=1] click to enlarge
The following plant was yellow-haired, but the image is over-exposed.
[attach=2] click to enlarge
White-haired bud left, yellow-haired bud right, in one image.
[attach=3] click to enlarge
White-haired plant in blossom.
[attach=4] click to enlarge
Amber-haired plant in bloom.
[attach=5] click to enlarge
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The following images illustrate the variability of plants in the locality.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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I find in our climate that the new growth gets badly impeded by tangling in the old soggy foliage if it is not trimmed.....
We find the old foliage also provides a shelter for slugs and snails which eat the flower buds as they emerge. I usually trim the old leaves off during the winter at some point but am not organised enough to be methodical about the timing.
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I find that too Darren. Also they leaves get very mouldy and over lay plants nearby. Only trouble I have is that new growth sometimes gets removed with the leaves.
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First of all, thank you for beautiful and interesting pictures, Josef!
Second, I think best way to find Pulsatilla integrifolia seeds is to become friendly with someone who grows it, or check the seedlists. The Swedish list has offered it several times. I fear it is quite unlikely to find it in a commercial list?
My question is; does anyone know for sure if there are P wallichiana plants/ seeds around or is it just a confusion with P campanella? As far as I have understood, the wallichiana is if not totally extincted at least almost?
Third... I am now a little ashamed having showed how lazy I am not tidying up in my garden. I thought I had found a very good and clever excuse for it. Regarding small slugs, I have millions of them an it does not really matter if I tidy up some of the plants or not. I have most of the Hepaticas under an old apple tree, and when I unpatiently look under the leaves in springtime there is not only Hepatica buds but a happy snail nursery as well. But somehow, it does not seem to harm the Hepaticas, or actually, anything else but some Hostas that has sometimes gotten a decorative hole or two...or five...