Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Primula => Topic started by: zephirine on November 08, 2007, 06:47:10 AM
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Could someone clarify for me what "nivalid" means?
Is it used for primulas which grow in countries where they have (need) snow cover in winter?
I have heard that name about primula chionantha, "the easiest of the nivalids"..
Are there others? I could not find any definition or list on the web...
Do they require special conditions? (soil, temps, etc...)
Thank you in advance!
Zeph
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Well, "nival" refers to a region with perpetual snow...so you're on the right track...
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Gratiam tibi habeo, Carlo domine, responsione tua! ;D
But I'd really like to know more!
Zeph
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Nivalid primulas are in the section Crystallophlomis, they make tight resting buds to overwinter, which is their main feature. This page from Kevock Nursery's site shows various types and gives a brief introduction to them :
http://www.kevockgarden.co.uk/plantlist/primula_orbicularis.htm
Hope this helps, Zephirine.
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Hi Maggi!
Yes, it does help, I mean it...
Thank you for the link : I understand better the specificity of these plants, and feel a little more confident about the possibility to grow them with my conditions:
My garden is not acidic (slightly alkaline), but mostly fresh, never dries in summer except at the very surface. Drainage, especially in winter, is a problem, though, but I have a few places where I think I could try these...
Candelabra-type primulae won't accept it here, and I'm trying to find better species for spring around my pond.
Winters in my place are certainly more severe than in GB, and it seems this gives them a better chance!
Snow cover we have sometimes (up to 2' two years ago), but probably not enough. A good blanket of fallen carpinus leaves might replace it, I hope!
Thank you again!
Zephirine
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Nivalid primulas are in the section Crystallophlomis, they make tight resting buds to overwinter, which is their main feature.
This section used to be called "Nivales" and that's where the "nivalid" reference most likely comes from. But the section itself would have been called that from the need for snow cover in winter. Many primulas need or at least like that but those in Section Crysallophlomis are all closely related of course. Here in New Zealand while they are growable in the short term, being damp rather than under dry snow in winter they are inclined to rot and die so have to be regrown from fresh seed. Most have white or yellow farina on their leaves, heavily, on the undersides. The leaves and roots are usually perfumed, as well as the flowers.
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My five cents. :)
I met "nivalid" primulas always in cool places, at subalpine and mostly alpine zone. Usually they grow near cold water running from glacier but not in it. They can be covered by snow not only in winter. And they like cool moist conditions and short vegetation period. The last is most important.
I tried to grow P. nivalis, P. turkestanica, P. bayernii, P. macrophylla, P. chionantha and P. sinopurpurea. Most successful I was with P. sinopurpurea:
(http://photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1199602/small/52985191.jpg)
http://photofile.ru/users/olga_bond/1199602/52985191/#mainImageLink
(http://photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1199602/small/52985194.jpg)
http://photofile.ru/users/olga_bond/1199602/52985194/#mainImageLink
(http://photofile.ru/photo/olga_bond/1199602/small/52985190.jpg)
http://photofile.ru/users/olga_bond/1199602/52985190/#mainImageLink
But 8 of 10 plants died after first flowering. Other species live two or three years and gradually dies. It happens in summer when hot.
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Welcome back Olga.
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Thank you, Olga!
This leaves me with little hope that they could thrive here, as the vegetation period is fairly long for me, even though I can provide cool and moist allright.... :'(
Do cry for me, oh primula...
The truth is : I'll never keep you
All through my wild beds
My mad insistence
It's you that I miss
Why keep your distance?
Zeph
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The only way that we can keep nivalids, for a few years, is in a frame on the north side of the greenhouse: protected from winter wet but shaded in summer. I have seen them growing well, in Scotland, in a polytunnel house located in a sheltered woodland.
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Thanks David! :)
Zephirine
Hope never dies! I tried and lost so many primulas and try, and try again. Believe you will find them right place. And will keep them.
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Ah, Zeph, you will understand this.... ::)
I don't expect my favourite plants to last for long
Never fool myself that my seeds will grow true
Being used to mildew I anticipate it
But all the same I hate it -- wouldn't you?
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Olga,
Very pleased to see you in this forum. I'd like to say that you have really a wonderful website and I often visit. Thanks a lot for such a hard and useful work.
I photographed some native primula species last year when I was in the local mountain Maimekh. I am not very informed about primulas, but it would be intereting to know to what group they belong to
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more pic
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Hello Zhirair,
As I know P. amoena (and P. veris too) belongs to Vernalis section.
If not, surely somebody will cry here and tell you the truth ;D
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Hi,
the pale yellow P. amoena looks very similar to P. elatior.
Does someone knows the destinct differences (apart from color)?
brgds
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Boyed,
Glad to see you to. :) I am envious of place you are living.
The truth :) is that our botanists consider P. amoena as a species. But really it is similar to P. elatior (subsp. meyeri). The difference is only in color. P. amoena has purple flowers, pink or pure white sometimes. Pale yellow flowered primula is probably P. macrocalyx or P. ruprechtii.
All this primroses belong to section Primula. I often meet hybrids with medium flowers.
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Hello Olga,
thanks for your explanation. You brought some light into my darkness. ;D
Another question still raise - since when has P.elatior ssp. meyeri re-named into P.amoena?
Just recently?
brgds
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Hello Olga,
thanks for your explanation. You brought some light into my darkness. ;D
Another question still raise - since when has P.elatior ssp. meyeri re-named into P.amoena?
Just recently?
brgds
It's the Botanists again Armin! ??? As far as I can understand it from 'Primula' by John Richards, Valentine and Lamond in 1978 chose the epithet 'meyeri' rather than the more familiar 'amoena' as 'meyeri' had previously been used at subspecific rank. I don't profess to understand what I have just typed so maybe one of the Primula experts on the Forum may well be able to put that into words we both may understand. ::)
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Thanks David.
I hope the primula experts will still confess us their secrets ;)
brgds
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Oh those botanists… :)
As I know P. amoena is a Russian version. Our botanists like to separate species. For example P. woronowii is a lilac variation of P. vulgaris.
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Hello Zhirair, glad to see that you found this forum! I like the many shades of your Primula amoena. Whenever I have sown the species, they turned out yellow - a less attractive colour when there are a lot of Primula veris and P eliator in your garden.
:DHannelotte
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Can anyone confirm the identity of this Primula? I got it as seed named as Primula sp. collected in China. I think it is Primula orbicularis but as I haven't grown it before would like confirmation. It is similar in growth as Primula chinontha but the farina on the leaves is less yellow and of course it has lovely lemon flowers.
Susan
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Oh Susan, such problems...
Isn't it wonderful when something is so beautiful it doesn't really matter what it's name is?
Just the same, I'll stay tuned for someone who knows more about primulas than I do........
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Lovely Primula orbicularis, Susan..... it looks to have a very full flowerhead.... then I see that the stem looks very fat ; might the stem be fasciated, making a super-duper big flower? The soft yellow is so pretty. I think this is a primula that prefers a damper site than some of the other nivalids....which is probably why it died here :'( :-[ :-X :-\
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Maggi,
I will check but I think they are all like that. Maybe the scale is a bit off putting , The stem hasn't elongated yet and the rosettes are smaller than chinontha. I am planning to dig one up for Perth show, if there is one fully grown by next week. They are out in the field.
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A beautiful primula Susan Good luck with it. Orbicularis is said to be one of the more difficult species within the section. ;D
On reading back through this thread, I've only just now realized that we had a nice little performance back there. Shades of 'Evita!' Thanks to Zephirine and Maggi.