Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: winwen on June 29, 2012, 11:42:21 PM
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Having seen this beauty so often on pictures, presented here by the forumists, I am wondering what type of Dactylorhiza this is.
It looks like a "maculata" but it may also be hybrid.
Is there anyone, knowing more about the origin of this clone?
What kind of Dacty is it?
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A very good one! ;D ;D ;D :) :) :)
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I think it D. fuchsii and yes it very desireable. I know two people who have it but sadly they refuse to lift it and manipulate tuber production :'(
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Hi Mark,
Can you tell a bit more about he manipulation of tuber production? What do you have to do?
Thanks
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In a couple of week when the flowers are going over on my plants and if the leaves are still green and fresh I carefully lift the plants and very carefully twist off next years tuber. This years tuber is brown but next years is off white. Do not break off the growing tip while doing this[attach=1]
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Thank you very much Mark. It looks easy.
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Very easy
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Mark
I think you forgot to mention you have to replant the old stem and keep it growing as long as possible in the hope it will produce another tuber. This usually works but there is a risk of introducing disease into the wound on the new tuber and also the old stem. Not a risk I would take with my sole plant.
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This orchid was selected and named by the late Gerry Munday from memory.
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Mark
I think you forgot to mention you have to replant the old stem and keep it growing as long as possible in the hope it will produce another tuber. This usually works but there is a risk of introducing disease into the wound on the new tuber and also the old stem. Not a risk I would take with my sole plant.
Not being one to take my own advice I took the new tuber off my one plant of Eskimo Nell(it looks flowering size) in July and yesterday seeing the replanted stem had died off I tipped it out. There is one new large tuber and two small ones.
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Not being one to take my own advice I took the new tuber off my one plant of Eskimo Nell(it looks flowering size) in July and yesterday seeing the replanted stem had died off I tipped it out. There is one new large tuber and two small ones.
Success! It is what Ian has been doing/advising for years.
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Well done Tony!
My variegated fuchsii is now 4. The parent plant had produced two new tubers for next year. I removed these. I just went out to check and there are two new ones but they are small. The old tuber is still fresh so they will hopefully grow.
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Hello Tony,
congratulations, that's very good news. May I join the waiting list, please, for when you eventually feel you can part with one? ;) ;) ;)
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2013 is in my orchids-madness definitely dedicated to Dactylorhiza, because of that I'm trying to collect as much information as possible about this group of plants. There is no problem with botanical species but hybrids of garden origin - here is nothing easy. That's the reason I registered myself on this forum – because Scotland and Ireland have extraordinary position "in the world of Dactylorhiza". In my opinion flowers of "Eskimo Nell" are looking more similar to Dactylorhiza maculata (var.leucantha??) than fuchsii. First question is - did someone have both of them: fuchsii and "Eskimo Nell" in the garden and can compare flowering time??? In theory, maculata tends to bloom a bit later then fuchsii.
This orchid was selected and named by the late Gerry Munday from memory.
-Brian, could you please tell us more about Gerry Munday?
I would like to show a couple of pictures that I found today on the forum of Saint-Petersburg Orchid Society /Russia http://spolo.ru/orchids_nwr_eng.html (http://spolo.ru/orchids_nwr_eng.html) . All are taken in area of city Vyborg (close to Finnish border) on 22 of July 2009 and 15 of July 2012. Unique relict of pine forest with moist thickets of birch and rowan with European blueberry, Marsh Labrador tea, sedges (typically acidic conditions) – and thousands flowers of Dactylorhiza maculata.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/as_spb/Orchids_20120715/th_SDC10267S.jpg) (http://s70.beta.photobucket.com/user/as_spb/media/Orchids_20120715/SDC10267S.jpg.html)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/as_spb/Orchids_20120715/th_IMG_3429S.jpg) (http://s70.beta.photobucket.com/user/as_spb/media/Orchids_20120715/IMG_3429S.jpg.html)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/as_spb/Orchids_20120715/th_IMG_3386S.jpg) (http://s70.beta.photobucket.com/user/as_spb/media/Orchids_20120715/IMG_3386S.jpg.html)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/as_spb/Orchids_20120715/th_SDC10269S.jpg) (http://s70.beta.photobucket.com/user/as_spb/media/Orchids_20120715/SDC10269S.jpg.html)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/as_spb/Orchids_20110710/th_IMG_2459S.jpg) (http://s70.beta.photobucket.com/user/as_spb/media/Orchids_20110710/IMG_2459S.jpg.html)
And between them - this:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/as_spb/Orchids_20090722/th_DSCF0254S.jpg) (http://s70.beta.photobucket.com/user/as_spb/media/Orchids_20090722/DSCF0254S.jpg.html)
I think, “Eskimo Nell” could be one of many orchids, maybe generations ago taken from the wild and later re-discovered in one of thousands of British gardens.
Regards -
Kristof
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The "Eskimo Nel2l I have judged at Peterborough for the past two years definitely looked exactly like a white d maculata
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Hello Tony,
congratulations, that's very good news. May I join the waiting list, please, for when you eventually feel you can part with one? ;) ;) ;)
I'll join you in the queue!
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here's a thought about propagating Dactylorhiza
We all know they will produce 1,2 or 3 new tubers if the new tuber is removed in July. What would happen if the new tuber was sliced in two down through the nose and in to the tuber or maybe slicing the tuber in half? Obviously putting charcoal or sulphur flowers on the cut or maybe allowing it to dry out.
Is there a possibility it would grown on and be OK? What do you think? I'm going to experiment this year or maybe send some to a lab for them to experiment with.
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Hi, I've only ever sliced a dactylorhiza tuber by accident with a spade and was too annoyed with myself to apply scientific rigour to the result. As far as I can recall, it did not come up next year, probably because I didn't dust the cut with sulphur or cinnamon. >:( >:( ;)
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Registration is necessary on Berthold Gross forum:
http://www.orchideenkultur.net/index.php (http://www.orchideenkultur.net/index.php)
,but is worth to see one of the "most-horrible" method "how to cut Dactylorhiza tuber" to gain a dozen new ones.
After registration - you go to "Orchideenvermehrung und Kultur" - "Vegetative Vermehrung" and "Sterile Vermehrung adulter Dactylorhiza ".
Good luck :)
Kristof
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I do have the article translated into English if you want it . But you will have to wait as it is my laptop which is being repaired.
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Google chrome translates the page. After work I must re read it
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hi,
sounds more like a horror story to me. ;) ;) ;)
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hello,
as far as I remember the 'Eskimo Nell'
is a hybrid with the okellyi and foliosa as parents, made by G. Mundey
I had some problems in the past 2 years,
so this picture is from the last flowering season 2010.
Dactylorhiza Eskimo Nell
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20130316-153208-871.jpg)
enjoy
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There is one definitely strong thing against Dact.maculata/fuchsii - leaves of "Eskimo Nell" are plain. I don't know if okellyi is now separate species or still officialy this is Dact.fuchsii subsp.okellyi, but according to the Harrap's "Orchids of Britain and Ireland" and Bauman&Kuenkele&Lorenz "Die Orchideen Europas" - leaves of okellyi are unspotted. On the other side I can't imagine no sign of deep red-purple colour of Dactylorhiza foliosa in such hybride, but... who knows...
Pictures of "Eskimo Nell" from today
(http://images47.fotosik.pl/1758/c9d5e5404b3bedc8m.jpg) (http://www.fotosik.pl/showFullSize.php?id=c9d5e5404b3bedc8)(http://images34.fotosik.pl/596/403b94d119b1b551m.jpg) (http://www.fotosik.pl/showFullSize.php?id=403b94d119b1b551)
- and great St.Patrick Day for all Irish Orchids lovers :)
Regards -
Kristof
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...........On the other side I can't imagine no sign of deep red-purple colour of Dactylorhiza foliosa in such hybride, but... who knows...
............so just "remake " it, you will see, what happens. ;D
I think it is a "white" selected clone from that cross
cheers
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As a retired chemist (mostly in metals and minerals, not organic) I guess I should have some idea of the answer to this question, but assuming we have samples of the possible plants that may have contributed to this "cross", can we now "examine" Eskimo Nell and determine scientifically which were her parents?
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Yes you can use DNA sampling to determine the parants
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As a retired chemist (mostly in metals and minerals, not organic) ...
Brian - then you know that minerals from tennantite-tetrahedrite series are not to identify without analysis and sometimes contain completely different metals?
Problem is - all "alba" members of Dactylorhiza are without spots on leaves and we have to focus on flowers only. If we try to compare "Eskimo Nell" with for example - Dactylorhiza maculata subsp.transsilvanica
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Dactylorhiza_transsilvanica_Bel%C4%8Dji_vrh.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Dactylorhiza_transsilvanica_Bel%C4%8Dji_vrh.jpg)
(and with white maculata from Russia-Finland border presented on the end of February) - what's conclusion? But I still hope that you can answer my old question who is Gerry Munday??
Kristof
P.S.
............so just "remake " it, you will see, what happens.
- I'm on the sunflower-seeds level now ;D
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But I still hope that you can answer my old question who is Gerry Munday??
Kristof
Kristof, Gerry Mundey ( note spelling) was an English grower who was famous for the many fine plants he raised. These include primulas and pleiones. Quite a few plants are named for him and may he raised were gien the name of his garden, Tinney's, located south of Salisbury.... so there is 'Tinney's Rose ' etc.
I will search to see if I can find some articles about him to tell you more.
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Here is an article written about Gerry Mundey by David Sampson from SRGC Journal #87 :
One Man - One Wood,(Gerry Mundey) Sampson, D. : 87/215
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Sorry Kristof I missed your request.
This excellent article lists many of Gerry's plants, but apart from The Pleione named after him and maybe the sedge Tinney's Princess I rarely see any of his plants now. Many of them are very specialised. Gerry had a very dry sense of humour, hence Eskimo Nell, a name from a ballad. Google it. Although living in the warm south of the UK the micro-climate of the new forest allowed him to grow many things that are better grown in Scotland. I remember the caravan and bulldozer well, and fish and chips with him in a cafe after one of the early RHS shows that I visited. Sadly missed.
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Maggi - Brian, thank you for explanation, pdf and all other information. I have no time now (I start holidays soon) but I will definitely try to find more details about G.Mundey's Dactylorhiza (not only about Eskimo).
Kristof
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More about Gerry Mundey:
About the man
Those of us who love pleiones are quite familiar with Pleione Gerry Mundey ‘Tinney’s Firs’, (Pleione forrestii x Tongariro), registered in 1990 by Ian Butterfield (with G Mundey). But not much information is available about the man who inspired this name. Who better to ask than Ian Butterfield who tells an extraordinary story:
“Gerry Mundey was an accomplished underwater photographer, who worked with Jacques Cousteau, the renowned oceanic explorer and conservationist. Rumour has it that he seldom wore shorts because he did not want to expose a huge scar on his leg sustained from a shark bite.
In 1980 Gerry retired from diving and bought 60 acres of woodand in the New Forest (Tinney’s Firs (http://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/en/our-woods/Pages/wood-details.aspx?wood=4754#.UUbz8VLnEz8)). After a lengthy battle with the local authorities, he obtained permission to build a house and a large greenhouse for growing orchids (pleiones, disas etc.). He used the acid forest environment to grow many woodland plants, including primulas, erythroniums, shortias etc. Growing beds were not laid out as a nursery but instead scattered around the property, wherever he could find the right environment to make the plants flourish - sphagnum patches, sides of ditches etc.
Ian recalls: “Gerry Munday turned up at my nursery, quite out of the blue, to have a good look around. He was a great grower, the first to grow Disas in this country.” They got on well from the start and Gerry gave his disas to Ian to look after before he had his own greenhouse built in the New Forest. Gerry also showed Ian how to make hybrids, and that was the start to Ian’s successful career as hybridiser of pleiones. Gerry was a prolific hybridiser himself. His motto was: “If you make lots of crosses you will eventually get something good”. Ian proved him right many times.
Although a bit of a loner, a fair group of friends assembled at Gerry’s funeral, Ian recalls. Everyone knew something different to tell about him and his endeavours. In his will, Gerry requested to be buried in the wood beside his cat, in a plywood coffin. Subsequent owners of the property have carefully maintained his burial place. It lies beneath a natural sarsen stone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarsen) on which is engraved: "Here lies George Mundey and his cat. In life and death they guard the woods."
Times move on. After Gerry’s death, the house became derelict and was eventually sold. The new owners gutted and re-built it. Today the property is for sale for £1.5million, complete with helicopter pad, swimming pool and Harley Davidson bike. No mention of greenhouse or garden.
Pleiones named after Gerry Mundey
After Gerry’s death, Ian took care of his pleione seedlings. He selected the best and called it Pleione Gerry Mundey ‘Tinney’s Firs’. Ian also named the clone Pleione pleionoides ‘Gerry Mundey’. This was a plant given to him, which he recognised as something rather special and distinctive.
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“Gerry Mundey was an accomplished underwater photographer, who worked with Jacques Cousteau, the renowned oceanic explorer and conservationist. Rumour has it that he seldom wore shorts because he did not want to expose a huge scar on his leg sustained from a shark bite.
- As a child I read about travels & expeditions (Thor Heyerdahl) and watched all possible movies about the nature from all countries "behind the iron curtains" (for example, series about volcanoes of Katia & Maurice Krafft and "Life on Earth" of David Attenborough were presented in Polish television). And of course - films of Jacques "Commandant" Cousteau too...Many thanks Maren - what a story!
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I grew up on Hans and Lotte Hass and their boat Xariffa. I believe they are still with us, with Hans Hass now 94 and Lotte 84!
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Very good. Yes, still with us and still together. 8)
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So happy with this one !! :D :D
Dactylorhiza 'Eskimo Nell'
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My Dactylorhiza 'Eskimo Nell' is at the same stage, but your photos are better.
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So happy with this one !! :D :D
Dactylorhiza 'Eskimo Nell'
Me too Luc :D
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'Eskimo Nell' looks to be a real sweetie!
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'Eskimo Nell' is not nearly so far advanced here....... in the frozen north.....
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'Eskimo Nell' is not nearly so far advanced here....... in the frozen north.....
...and you'd think she would be at home with you up there!
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A couple more photos for the thread.
The leaves might not look their best because I moved the plants apart at the beginning of the year after they had started growing.
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Anyone having some spares? i've Ophrys to exchange.