Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Maggi Young on March 17, 2012, 08:22:48 PM
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Can anyone suggest a commercial source for Narcissus x susannae ? (Narcissus x litigiosus ?)
I've had an email asking for help with this search.
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If any such source exists - which I doubt - I daresay they will charge EBay snowdrop-type prices.
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"If any such source exists - which I doubt - I daresay they will charge EBay snowdrop-type prices."
I hope no Gerry, this is really dangerous...
Maggy, can I just mentioned something about this crosses. This hybrid has been given many diferent names until we have understood that the localities traditionally idintified as N. cantabricus in fact contained at least 2 species: N. albicans and N. cantabricus subsp. cantabricus. So It was necessary to rename the hybrids with N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus, because all these hybrids were called N. x susannae
The crosses that Mariano del Amo called N. x litigiosus del Amo, were Narcissus L. triandrus subsp. pallidulus (Graells) Rivas Goday x N. albicans (Haworth) Sprengel, is mantained and the hybrid Narcissus x susannae, which is Narcissus L. triandrus subsp. palliulus (Graells) Rivas Goday x Narcissus cantabricus DC. is redefined as N. x matritensis Fern. Casas
There is only one direcction (at least in Madrid) in N. x matritensis, Ganymedes accting as a mother, and the hybrid has one or more flowers, solitary plants without many vegetative divisions, slender with tall scape, good scent...
In Narcissus x litigiosus, I think there are two direcctions and probably there are fertile clones. We can see clumps with 50 flowers and more, with one flowers short scape, foliosus, and bad scent... and this is because is N. albicans the mother that aport all that characters. It also could have two flowers, because N. albicans (aslo N. cantabricus, N. graellsii, N. rupicola, N. confusus... I think all uniflower narcissi) has a very rare capacity to have a second extra flower. I think Ian showed this capacity and here is an example in N. graellsii http://www.biodiversidadvirtual.org/herbarium/Narcissus-bulbocodium-L-subsp-graellsii-Webb-KRicht-img8728.html. So Narcissus x litigiosus direction N. albicans could be like this N. graellsii, but in a clump with dozens of bulbs. Here is an example http://www.biodiversidadvirtual.org/herbarium/Narcissus-x-susannae-FernCasas-img28069.html.
When the direcction in N. x litigiosus is N. triandrus subp. pallidulus the plant is similar to this N. x matritensis (it is wrongly labeled by the admin in this page) http://www.biodiversidadvirtual.org/herbarium/Narcissus-x-susannae-FernCasas-img62548.html.
Sorry about this long off topic explanation. I don't know any comercial source. I am making N. x litigiosus and N. x matritensis in both directions for my study but I only have capsules setting seeds.
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"If any such source exists - which I doubt - I daresay they will charge EBay snowdrop-type prices."
I hope no Gerry, this is really dangerous
Rafa - I certainly did not intend my post to be read as any sort of encouragement to pillage bulbs from the wild. Insofar as it can be read in this way then I apologise.
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Rafa's amazing findings make a lot of sense. What a fortune to count with his acute insight: hopefully he will write down his findings sooner than later. With a genus so extremely complex and not understood at all, thse field observations are crucial.
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oh! sorry Gerry, don't get me wrong, nothing to apologize, I think nobody understood your comment this way. I just like to say that you are right and that it could happen. This is very possible when any plant becomes very desirable, and is not common in culture, like the galanthus you mentioned. If the plants are grown in a garden, ok, like the hybrids I am creating, but that I consider very negative is to collect for commercial purposes any wild plant, but also and maybe more important the hybrids as they are necessary evolutive pieces.
I think most of us are conservationist people, and it is a good comment from you to make a warning note about this problem.
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I saw a pot full of Narcissus x susannae, last Sunday in Gothenburg Botanical Garden. It was beautiful.
Henrik Zetterlund has pictures of it in his blog.
http://henrikzetterlund.wordpress.com/