Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: ArnoldT on December 22, 2011, 03:54:46 PM
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Just past the winter deadline at 5:30 UTC.
Narcissus romieuxii var. mesatlanticus
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Bravo Arnold
Here the first buts arrive
snails found them already
I killed at least 10 small ones
Roland
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Oh God, I suppose it was the summer solstice here on Wed/Thursday. All down hill to winter then. ???
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Just past the winter deadline at 5:30 UTC.
Narcissus romieuxii var. mesatlanticus
Perhaps it needs company. Cedric Morris will flower for up to eight weeks. Must remember to divide it. It has not multiplied since last year
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Is that flowering for eight weeks in the garden? I must have it. :) :) :)
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Is that flowering for eight weeks in the garden? I must have it. :) :) :)
Yes Maren a very tough fellow indeed. Even last year it was frozen and suffered no lasting damage
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Is that flowering for eight weeks in the garden? I must have it. :) :) :)
It flowers so long and so well because it is sterile, in spite of being a form (?yes) of N. minor.
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does anybody know a source to buy this Cedric Morris?
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MacPlants in Scotland, I think, Loes. http://www.macplants.co.uk/home.asp though not listed :-X :-\
www.bucklandplants.co.uk .... but it's not listed there either!
Rob or Dina Asbridge
Address
Whinnieliggate
Kirkcudbright
Kirkcudbrightshire
DG6 4XP
United Kingdom
Telephone
(01557) 331323
And some others in the UK...... http://apps.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/pfregions.asp?ID=97526
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I just bought plugs from Cotswold
just pm me for address
Roland
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Thanks Maggi and Roland!
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N. cantabricus subsp. cantabricus var. kesticus
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Arnold, that is beautiful. Where was the picture taken, outside?
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Maren:
Taken in the greenhouse just as the sun started to light the plants.
When the sun hits the petals at an early morning angle it show the crystalline effect.
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Thank you, absolutely delightful. :) :) :)
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Narcissus albidus ex SF110
From Anne Wright.
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Narcissus romieuxii var. zaianicus
A form selected by Rannveig Wallis. The flowers are significantly smaller than last year.
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Very nice Gerry. Mine seem to have slowed down a lot, can't understand it?
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David - although most of my bulbocodiums are more-or-less on time, the flowers on all are few & smaller than usual. Effects of last winter?
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That's probably right Gerry.
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Perhaps they're just feeling grotty. Play them some soothing music. ;D
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Well I did sing to 'em Lesley and that might have been the problem ;D
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Ex Narcissus albidus SF110
From Anne Wright.
Compare this with my pic above (reply no. 15) which looks like typical N. albidus as pictured on the forum in previous years.
Anne suggests this one is either natural variation or a possible hybrid with N. cantabricus petunioides. Whatever it is, I think it is very attractive.
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A B. Duncan cross.
Narcissus bulbocodium var. genuinus
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Narcissus romieuxii var. mesatlanticus from David Nicholson :) I think that this is going to get costly now!
How tolerant to the cold damp wet winters we get in England, ie can they be grown outside with no protection?
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Narcissus romieuxii var. mesatlanticus from David Nicholson :) I think that this is going to get costly now!
How tolerant to the cold damp wet winters we get in England, ie can they be grown outside with no protection?
Not here Neil. They may be OK during the winter in a well drained position but they need to be warm/hot & dry during the summer.
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Thanks Gerry
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Not blooming in winter, but setting seeds in winter, a couple of new species I discovered with my friend Joaquin Ramirez. Since two years ago I am researching an evolve process in Narcissus genus discovering some necessary circumstances that make possible new species in this genus.
Described as hybrids, they are in fact species and not being sure about nomenclature rules I will keep calling them like the hybrids, but without "X" to make the differences between the species and the hybrids.
Narcissus alleniae
Narcissus perez larae---> this one has been called Narcissus piifontianus, but in Valencia, and the plants we discovered are in Cadiz, anyway, it seems they have follow similar speciation process.
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Narcissus romieuxii var. mesatlanticus from David Nicholson.......
...... and looking much better than mine Neil.
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Are these autumn flowering, Rafa?
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Yes they are Anne, they bloom arround 10 november. Like other species, (previously described as hybrids), they don't need their parents to propagate them selves.
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Narcissus canatabricus x romieuxii
Narcissus romieuxii 'Julia Jane'
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A few Narcissus seedlings mesaltanticus x camoro
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I think you find these beauties as fascinating as we do, Michael?
I'll merge this thread with the pre-exisiting Narcissus Winter one.... :)
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What crackers, Michael! Your hybrid is very nice as well, Arnold. Have you both bred these yourselves?
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Anne:
Mine is from Brian Duncan.
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Oh how i love seeing all these miniature daffs.
It appears most of mine have divided into lots of little non flowering sized bulbs :-[
I wonder if the soil was to rich, oh well I will completely dry them off next time and se if they can grow into lots of flowering sized bulbs in he next couple of years-is there a secret out there to help me?
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Kees
What you have- break down into lots of small bulbs - is a typical reaction of the bulbs to stress. The most likely cause of this stress is not enough water at growing time - that is in the early stage of growth as the leaves are forming. It is critical that they get plenty of water at that time and that they do not dry out until they are going into dormancy. It is a common problem growers face as the instinct is not to water the bulbs in the winter and as many of the narcissus are winter growing this is precisely the time the need the water.
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Make sure you plant them deeply enough too.
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I keep all mine in an open sand plunge so they get whatever the heavens deliver. They are in clay pots & a well drained compost (equal parts JI3 & 6mm grit). During summer dormancy they are put under cover & kept completely dry. In previous years this has worked well; this year the results are lousy.
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A very small one in flower here now:
Narcissus hedraeanthus
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Out of a potful of N. romieuxii Julia Jane, this has the widest flare.
and an unknown
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N. assoanus subsp. minutus
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There are 2 hybrid petticoats is blooming :)
N. cantabricus ssp. monophyllus x N. romieuxii 'Julia Jane'
N. bulbocodium var. tenuifolius x N. romieuxii ssp. albidus var. zaianicus
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Arnold & Tatsuo - those hoop petticoats are very nice.
Arnold - that N. assoanus seems very early. Is it always?
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Gerry:
It's only the first bloom on the plant. Last the first year I had it didn't bloom. Our weather has been 5 to 10 degrees above normal.
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Narcissus bulbocodium subsp. praecox var. paucinervis Maire, in Bull. Soc. Hist. Nat. Afr. Nord 29 (6-7) 452 (1938)
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I've just recieved the latest catalogue from Glenbrook Bulb Farms (and have sent off my order!).
I'll try to scan it for anyone who wants a copy - just PM your e-mail address to me.
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus cantabricus eu-albidus
Narcissus bulbocodium OP 2519 BD
Narcissus assoanus minitus
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Very nice Arnold.
Narcissus here are very poor this year. No flowers, few flowers or very small flowers - the combination of extreme cold last winter & a miserable, cool summer perhaps?
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This seems to be a good year. I let them bake in the greenhouse all summer whee temps reached 110F at times. I resisted the urge to give them a drink.
The temps here today are in the 50F's. I used a hydroponic fertilizer after flowers faded, no other feeding.
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I can smell the scent from here :D
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Narcissus bulbocodium selection OP 2519
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You're certainly having a good Daff year Arnold. Just like Gerry I'm having a terrible one so far.
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This one is from Brian Duncan potted up last year. Our weather has been mild last two weeks. Flowers fade rapidly.
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This is a nice little hybrid from 'Candlepower' x cyclamineus, like a miniature 'Jenny'. Also, a rogue seedling from the plunge showing the doubling of petals etc like in Ian's on the bulb log. I'll mark it as he has done to see what happens next year.
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Anne, that little one is very sweet. One you made earlier?
Your doubled hoop is a fun find at the same time as Ian's.... and it's a plunge seedling too?
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Yes, Maggi, I think it's its second flowering. There are other clones in the same pot that I'm looking forward to meeting.
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That's even more exciting. So much pleasure and anticipation from a pot of bulbs.
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Love the hoop petticoats! Does anyone grow panizzianus? This was from Archibald seed and is always one of the earliest narcissi in the garden, though never making a grand show.
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Thanks for the advise Ian and co, I will start watering mine soon then so that they have the water they need. Maybe another month yet before a water.
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Wonderful scent.
Narcissus assoanus minutus
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Narcissus cantabricus petunioides just starting to get going. I don't know if you all agree with the use of that name (whatever it means...), this stock has been circulating under it for 30 years that I know of, and probably longer, but that doesn't necessarily give any authority as we know!
Alex
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It is an exceptionally fine form, Alex, the name seems good to me, but Rafa is the man to ask.
Arnold, is it very minute? It's certainly very early, compared to over here.
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Alex - The Kew Checklist regards it as a synonym for Narcissus cantabricus subsp. cantabricus. According to Blanchard, until very recently all the bulbs in cultivation derive from a single bulb which his father received from van Tubergen in the 1930s. He states that similar forms have been found by himself & Mike Salmon in Morocco.
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Anne:
what measurement can I take to determine 'minuteness'?
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Anne:
what measurement can I take to determine 'minuteness'?
Actual measurements, Arnold... then an opinion can be formed! ;)
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Maggi:
Measurements of what parts or all parts?
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Maggi:
Measurements of what parts or all parts?
Corolla spread, trumpet length, stem height,thank you :-*
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There is one tall stem but four others measure:
Corolla spread 11 mm
Trumpet length 11 mm
Stem length 7.6 cm
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There is one tall stem but four others measure:
Corolla spread 11 mm
Trumpet length 11 mm
Stem length 7.6 cm
Oh, it is minute....How sweet! 8)
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Narcissus cantabricus petunioides just starting to get going. I don't know if you all agree with the use of that name (whatever it means...), this stock has been circulating under it for 30 years that I know of, and probably longer, but that doesn't necessarily give any authority as we know!
Alex
Splendid Alex ! Even with another name ....
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Unfortunately we get into the nomenclature problem again - how to distinguish the petunioid types from the 'standard' cantabricus shapes? Maybe we should use 'petunioides group'? Otherwise we're going to end up with things the way they were before Linnaeus, having to use a paragraph to describe a plant where a couple of words would do.
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Arnold your assoanus sounds very nice. Why does that sound a bit rude? :-[
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Unfortunately we get into the nomenclature problem again - how to distinguish the petunioid types from the 'standard' cantabricus shapes? Maybe we should use 'petunioides group'? Otherwise we're going to end up with things the way they were before Linnaeus, having to use a paragraph to describe a plant where a couple of words would do.
My understanding is that all the bulbocodiums are very variable & that petunioid forms are just one extreme - I've found they crop up now & again in seedlings of N. romieuxii as, of course, have other people. I presume that this is the reason why Kew rejects the name as a botanical name. It might be useful to have some name for the purposes of horticulture but I'm not sure 'Petunioides' would be valid - I'll have to check the International Convention. (Actually, I quite like the pre-Linnaean system. It can be rather poetic!)
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But not very economical on paper! How about ' the ones with the widely flared and frilly corona group'. ;D
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But not very economical on paper! How about ' the ones with the widely flared and frilly corona group'. ;D
How about 'Mini Skirts'? 'Hoop Petticoats' seems a bit old fashioned.
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Anne:
One has to preface a mention of the name with an apology.
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;D
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Look away now if you are of a nervous disposition.
I have this mottling appearing on leaves of some daffodils. This one is precious and I don't want to bin it, but I'm worried it is virus. Any other ideas?
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But not very economical on paper! How about ' the ones with the widely flared and frilly corona group'. ;D
How about 'Mini Skirts'? 'Hoop Petticoats' seems a bit old fashioned.
Or "single layer tutu" group?
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Look away now if you are of a nervous disposition.
I have this mottling appearing on leaves of some daffodils. This one is precious and I don't want to bin it, but I'm worried it is virus. Any other ideas?
Anne - is this one you have recently obtained? I had symptoms like this on a newly acquired (garden centre) Sternbergia lutea but they disappeared the following year. On the other hand, I have symptoms like this every year on a Narcissus obesus which I think may be virus. Nevertheless, the plant remains very vigorous & floriferous. A different Sternbergia behaves in just the same way. Both came originally from Mike Salmon.
I don't know what to conclude but if it is precious I think I'd be inclined to hang on to it & see what happens.
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But not very economical on paper! How about ' the ones with the widely flared and frilly corona group'. ;D
How about 'Mini Skirts'? 'Hoop Petticoats' seems a bit old fashioned.
Or "single layer tutu" group?
My original thought was 'Ra Ra Skirts' but I suspect this just shows my age.
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How about Marilyn Munroe (like her skirts in the updraft). Hope you know what I mean.
I've had them for a couple of years, and this is the first year I noticed it. On the other hand the same mottling appears on several different plants I've had from someone else, actually 2 people. I was hoping it was something to do with how the bulbs were treated before I got them, and that it would go away, but it hasn't. I could live with disposing of the others (though I probably will have a hard time getting them again), but the ones shown will be badly missed.
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Look away now if you are of a nervous disposition.
I have this mottling appearing on leaves of some daffodils. This one is precious and I don't want to bin it, but I'm worried it is virus. Any other ideas?
Looks awful Anne, that's for sure. Might be a virus, might be eelworm.... crikey, might be both. :o
If it is very precious then quarantine with covering all over ( and round and under the pot) with muslin or some such to contain any walking nasties.
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OK, now you've really put the wind up me! I'll have to isolate it. Currently the leaves are tied so they can't touch anything else. I'll bin the others, I think.
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How about Marilyn Munroe (like her skirts in the updraft). Hope you know what I mean
I know exactly what you mean - 'The Seven Year Itch' - I suspect this also shows my age. But if I remember correctly, Marilyn's skirt was quite long before the updraft had its effect. However, the petunioids have quite short skirts, hence my search for an appropriate name.
Apparently that scene was originally filmed in a New York street but attracted such huge crowds of spectators that it had to be re-done on a studio set.
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How about 'parabolic antenna' ? Is it too futuristic? ;D
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I labelled one of my seedlings 'parabolic'!
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Narcissus hedreanthus in flower today
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Narcissus Firelight Gold
Hybridizer: Walter J.M. Blom
Oregon, United States
Year Registered: 2008
sweetly scented.
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Narcissus cantabricus eu-albidus
Truly white
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Narcissus asturiensis x Candlepower
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Arnold - You must have one of the best collections in the USA. Super!
johnw
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Johnw:
Thanks,
I like them very much and have been able to get a few through exchanges with friends.
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Narcissus asturiensis x Candlepower
Arnold,
this looks like a lovely thing but how different is it from N. asturiensis? Did you raise it yourself so that you can show us the difference between parent and seedling? Or was it from someone else's crossing?
The crosses I seen of N. cyclamenius x Candlepower usually have a paler (or white) flower.
cheers
fermi
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Fermi:
The N. asturiensis x Candlepower was from Brian Duncan.
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As I've said before Arnold you really are having a good season, lovely stuff.
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David:
It also looks as if every bloom has set seed!
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That cantabricus is mouth-watering!
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That cantabricus is mouth-watering!
Yes it is. Rannveig offered it at one time but I haven't seen it in her lists recently. I should have bought it at the time.
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Arnold, how do you propagate all those cultivars? Only vegetatively? If propagated from seed they should hybridize like mad, wouldn't they.??
BTW, it is an impressive collection you have :)
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Hans:
I haven't propagated any of them so far. Most are 1st or 2nd year plants for me.
Looks like a great seed set so I may have your answer in a few years.
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OK, thank you Arnold. Are there others who can answer my question. How do you keep Narcissus species/cultivars from interbreeding when there are many different ones in a greenhouse and one wants to collect 'true' seed? It should be an hybridization orgy ;D ;D
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OK, thank you Arnold. Are there others who can answer my question. How do you keep Narcissus species/cultivars from interbreeding when there are many different ones in a greenhouse and one wants to collect 'true' seed? It should be an hybridization orgy ;D ;D
I only have species & I find that they increase vegetatively at a rate which is good enough for me though perhaps not for anyone with a commercial interest. They do hybridise readily & some of the hybrids are attractive.
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I only have species & I find that they increase vegetatively at a rate which is good enough for me though perhaps not for anyone with a commercial interest. They do hybridise readily & some of the hybrids are attractive.
I'm glad to hear. I recall reading somewhere (Blanchard book?) that most species other than the sections Pseudonarcissus and Narcissus are hard to propagate vegetatively. I couldn't imagine how one could keep a certain species/cultivar going without introgression...
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I only have species & I find that they increase vegetatively at a rate which is good enough for me though perhaps not for anyone with a commercial interest. They do hybridise readily & some of the hybrids are attractive.
I'm glad to hear. I recall reading somewhere (Blanchard book?) that most species other than the sections Pseudonarcissus and Narcissus are hard to propagate vegetatively. I couldn't imagine how one could keep a certain species/cultivar going without introgression...
Hans - I've just looked at Blanchard & he does say this about "many species..... Exceptions include N. cantabricus & N. romieuxii." (p21).
My experience is restricted to sections Jonquillae, Apodanthe, Bulbocodium & Pseudonarcissus. Blanchard has had far more experience than me so his claim may well be true of the other sections. Ganymedes I cannot grow & I've never tried the others.
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Narcissus cordubensis
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That is very very nice.
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I only have species & I find that they increase vegetatively at a rate which is good enough for me though perhaps not for anyone with a commercial interest. They do hybridise readily & some of the hybrids are attractive.
I'm glad to hear. I recall reading somewhere (Blanchard book?) that most species other than the sections Pseudonarcissus and Narcissus are hard to propagate vegetatively. I couldn't imagine how one could keep a certain species/cultivar going without introgression...
Hans - I've just looked at Blanchard & he does say this about "many species..... Exceptions include N. cantabricus & N. romieuxii." (p21).
My experience is restricted to sections Jonquillae, Apodanthe, Bulbocodium & Pseudonarcissus. Blanchard has had far more experience than me so his claim may well be true of the other sections. Ganymedes I cannot grow & I've never tried the others.
Yes, that is correct. But "exceptions include"suggests that there are more species which divide well. At least I know that N. pseud. pseud, and N. bulbocodium divide very well. There must be more but I find it hard to find information. Besides, all my species (belonging to several sections) are still one/two years old so it takes a few years to know if they divide well. I guess most of them do, except for N. serotinus and the like?
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With some sage advice from Ian here is a much clearer image of Narcissus cordubensis.
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very, very, very nice!
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Cracker Arnold. Did you use the "finger" test? (ie. focus on your finger close to the plant?)
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David:
Yes, Ian explained the "finger" test and it worked well.
I think I may be trying to get too close to capture the interior of the flower. I backed off a bit and it was better.
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I thought you meant that Ian was now growing Salvias. ;D
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Lesley:
After i typed it I thought. Someone will think this has to do with with making pasta sauce.
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:P ;D
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Narcissus calcicola
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Arnold - you are having a good narcissus season, & an early one too (by UK standards).
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........ whilst you and I are having a shocker Gerry :'(
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Think I'm just settling for leaves this year David! :( :( :(
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Yes, I've got a fair amount of leaves too Ron. Got a few buds on some of the later ones but the early ones have been disappointing.
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We definitely need smellivision for Arnold's beauties.
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I think smellvision was a fad in the 60's. Didn't last.
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The first of my miniature Narcissus is now open - N. lagoi OP
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The first of my miniature Narcissus is now open - N. lagoi OP
I wonder about the origin of your plant Mark? According to Blanchard N. lagoi has not been found in the wild since 1909 & has never been in cultivation.
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has it now??
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The first of my miniature Narcissus is now open - N. lagoi OP
See pix of this that Mark has shown in previous years :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2870.msg76165#msg76165
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4766.msg144428#msg144428
Gerry: if quote on the plant comes from Blanchard's book, that info may be a little outdated?
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According to the Kew Monocot checklist N.lagoi Merino 1909 is a synonym for N. asturiensis (Jord.) Pugsley 1933.
According to Blanchard the flowers of N. lagoi Merino are held on stems 40-50 cm long. Hardly a 'miniature'.
Edit: Difficult to be sure but in Mark's earlier pics it looks rather like a form of N. asturiensis.
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A wild collected Narcissus bulbocodium from Morocco.
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Gerry I can only go by what the label says. The supplier was Brian Duncan. I'll be visiting in a few weeks and will ask him
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This is Narcissus lagoi grown from Brian Duncan's OP seed. With me it is very variable in height, usually 12-20 cm tall but never more than about 25 cm. Apart from height, it differs from the other N.asturiensis forms I have in its persistently green spathe, far longer yet slightly narrower and less glaucous leaves. The inside of the corona is also distinctly paler.
Last year I asked Brian about this plant, and trust that he won't mind if I quote him here:
"As far as I know N. lagoi is only recognised from one location due west of Lugo. It may be subsumed into N. asturiensis but I think it is distinctive enough to be at least regarded as a sub-species or a variety. It grows in a riverside habitat at lower altitude, similar to N. cyclamineus , it has that distinct and prominent upright hood, it tends to be slightly larger and more upright in stance and Ben Zonneveld says it is a tetraploid (48pg Dna compared to 24ish for N. asturiensis. I hope further research will allow it's identity to stand at some level. Meanwhile, being a tetraploid, I think it should be useful for further crosses."
Apologies for the soft focus.
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Thanks for this Ashley - very interesting. Blanchard states that the original collection was made on the banks of the River Minho near Lugo but that neither Frank Waley nor Mike Salmon were able to find it in the vicinity. Presumably Brian Duncan had more success?
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I don't know whether Brian collected material himself Gerry, but it would be very interesting to know whether he or others have found it in the wild since Blanchard wrote that passage. I think Rafa supports its inclusion under N. asturiensis but perhaps he might know more about populations near Lugo. Certainly that general area has undergone a lot of building and other development in recent years, threatening biodiversity.
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I've just had a look at Ben Zonneveld's paper. Apparently following Barra & Lopez (1995), he seems to regard N. lagoi as a synonym for N. asturiensis subsp. villarvildensis. The latter taxon also includes N. minor 'Cedric Morris', another tetraploid. What a nightmare Narcissus is!
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I asked Rafa about this last year, and to quote him (again hoping that he doesn't mind):
"Well, Asturiensis group it was quite difficult group, but it is definitively closed for many of us. What I support are the following species.
- Narcissus asturiensis (Galicia, Asturias, Portugal, Castilla León)
- Narcissus jacetanus (Navarra, País Vasco)
- Narcissus muñozii-garmendiae (endemic from Ciudad Real)
- Narcissus salmanticensis (endemic from Salamanca)
The key to recognize them, apart geographical distribution is the perianth tube form and the filament insertions in the tube.
Narcissus lagoi is not valid, is a Narcissus asturiensis.
Narcissus minor, is the same, it was described in a greenhouse, and probably a garden selection... The correct name is N. asturiensis.
In addition, some time ago, I discover a relictic population that I labeled as N. asturiensis var. villarvildensis: I was wrong!. This variety are tetraploid N. asturiensis, bigger than the others, it is probably N. salmanticensis (it is the bigger one, like a N. confusus).
That I discovered is in fact Narcissus stenanthus (Lange) F. Casas. I was described not far from my location and Lange mentioned in his herbarium sheet a probably hybrid species between N. confusus Pugsley and N. nivalis Graells, but without any other explanation. It could remember in some parts N. nivalis due the close angle of perianth tube but is not an hybrid. This hybrid not exists in any part of Guadarrama Mountain Range and I only saw one time in Gredos mountain Range."
Confusing all right. I'll keep my label as it is for now ;)
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Many thanks Ashley (&, indirectly, Rafa). Keeping your label sounds sensible - N.lagoi might well re-appear after the next revision!
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I have this as Narcissus minor or asturiensis from Xiabre , Spain
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What a nightmare Narcissus is!
A bit like snowdrops maybe
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I have this as Narcissus minor or asturiensis from Xiabre , Spain
... are a can of worms on there own, never mind all the other species ;D
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What a nightmare Narcissus is!
A bit like snowdrops maybe
Wash your mouth out Mark Smyth! How could you compare the two? And Ashley, I go dewy-eyed over N. asturiensis as well.
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gulp :-X
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And Ashley, I go dewy-eyed over N. asturiensis as well.
:-\
That took me a while Anne ;D ;D ;D
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Narcissus 'Flashback' in flower this week. Very slow to get going but it seems to be settled in at last.
johnw - +3c and sunny.
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Very nice John, it's one of Brian Duncan's "babies"
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It is nice - how tall is it?
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Was it just leaves so far David? was for me! :'( :'( Except for bulbocodiumxromieuxii?). Nothing special really!
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I have lots of leaves too - flowers so far only for various bulbocodium. It has been so very dry and sunny and I didn't always water everything when I should have :( (forecast for today was min. 0ºC, max. 18ºC).
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Very nice John, it's one of Brian Duncan's "babies"
David - That's great to know. I think I had read he worked with Flashback but didn't realize it was his. Funny as I had ordered Englander or Candlepower from my supplier and got Flashback as a sub. Are these all Brian Duncan's?
Anne - The tallest Flashback leaf is poker-straight and 9" high. If you allow for the lack of sun all day long (when it does shine here) and potting rather high I'd say you could knock 2-3" off that. Thanks for the measurement request as I had gone to the greenhouse to cross-pollinate the cyclamineus and got side-tracked as usual. Now I've done the pollinations - otherwise no seed set - and have probably caused premature flower drop. I also put cyclamineus pollen on Flashback.
I attach a photo of my cyclamineus and sorry for that blue interference. There was a discussion in the last Daff Yearboook on the three perianth types in cyclamineus - guess these fall into the flared group which I was hoping.
johnw
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Very nice John, it's one of Brian Duncan's "babies"
David - That's great to know. I think I had read he worked with Flashback but didn't realize it was his. Funny as I had ordered Englander or Candlepower from my supplier and got Flashback as a sub. Are these all Brian Duncan's?
Candlepower was Alec Gray's-registered 1975. Englander was registered 1992 with hybridiser unknown
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bulbo x romi
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Anne - The flower of Flashback was 2 inches long, the cyclamineus 1.5 inches. I'll measure the flower height tomorrow.
johnw
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At last a couple to picture. The first couple are of one of Anne Wright's crosses, Narcissus romieuxii var. mesatlanticus x N. bulbocodium forma 'Anne'. If you see this Anne do you have another name for this now please?
The second couple are N. bulbocodium ssp bulbocodium var. nivalis.
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Very bright and cheerful David. :) :)
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Hi David, it's not one of my seedlings. It was a cross made by a friend, Robin Metcalf. I have named it Narcissus 'Robin Metcalf', but it is not registered, as it would not be distinctive enough. I'm glad you like it.
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Hi David, it's not one of my seedlings. It was a cross made by a friend, Robin Metcalf. I have named it Narcissus 'Robin Metcalf', but it is not registered, as it would not be distinctive enough. I'm glad you like it.
Thanks Anne.
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Very nice David. Tropical Devon is ahead of Arctic Sussex.
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Narcissus cyclamineus
Narcissus pseudonarcissus
Narcissus obvallaris
Narcissus bulbocodium filifolius- that's what it says on the label. :-\
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Anne - The flower of Flashback was 2 inches long, the cyclamineus 1.5 inches. I'll measure the flower height tomorrow.
johnw
Anne - The flower of Flashback is 9.5" tall and you can deduct the same 2-3" for the same reasons as mentioned.
johnw - 0c & sunny
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Thanks, John. It looks nice.
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Very nice David. Tropical Devon is ahead of Arctic Sussex.
Not as tropical as County Clare Gerry. I bet Michael's been in the garden today in shorts and flip-flops ;D
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Not exactly David ,but close. 15C forecast for Wednesday. ;D
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Flippin' cold here.
Some new babies out today, the white label is marked in cms:
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They are looking really nice Anne. :) :)
Are these first time flowering from your own crosses or well established / well known plants?
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Very nice Anne. All of them look well worth growing on.
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David:
Looks like there's some hightlight to come
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Hi Ron, first time flowering from my own crosses.
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Narcissus triandrus w/c
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They are really nice Anne. :) :) What criteria do you use for selection and do you sell your selections? I dont know Narcissus at all but we'd be interested in growing some of those you have shown.
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Narcissus triandrus w/c
Very nice Arnold. How do you grow this? I've never been able to keep it - & I'm not alone in the UK!
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It sits in the stainless steel plunge bed with all the other Narcissus. Went unwatered through our hot summer months where the temps in the greenhouse reached 110F. Second year and plan to repot this year.
I would say it received a serious baking this past summer.
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That is very nice Arnold. Do you grow it from seed?
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I would say it received a serious baking this past summer.
Perhaps that is the key?
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It was a bulb gift from a friend who probably picked it up from either Mike Salmon or the Archibalds
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I don't grow N. triandrus well either, so it's nice to see yours, Arnold.
Ron, I'm trying to breed very small trumpet types, mainly. I look for a flower in proportion to the height of the stem, upright growing, with the flowers above the leaves. I particularly enjoy the paler colours and bicolours. I propagate from the ones I like best, and not from ones that are weak growers.
When I have enough, they go into my mail order list.
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It sits in the stainless steel plunge bed with all the other Narcissus. Went unwatered through our hot summer months where the temps in the greenhouse reached 110F. Second year and plan to repot this year.
I would say it received a serious baking this past summer.
That's interesting Arnold because Blanchard, among others, suggests that in the wild it does not like excessive heat and tends to grow either at high altitudes or in shade. However, I recall Rafa posting pics here showing it growing with N. rupicola which likes, or at least tolerates, high temperatures. All very odd.
I've tried it several times, either in pots or in the garden, & always lost it. Even Blanchard says he has not found it easy to grow.
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Thanks Anne, think I'll take a look at some later in the year.
Would you please add me to your e mail catalogue list? Thanks.
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Where we saw it growing wild, it was almost always in shade, but probably dry when dormant.
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Narcissus triandrus w/c
Very nice Arnold. How do you grow this? I've never been able to keep it - & I'm not alone in the UK!
Moi aussi :( And it is difficult to obtain good seed. Currently have some seedlings from SRGC seed - hope they survive to flowering size.
Do have one pot of triandrus from a kind forumist.
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Narcissus triandrus w/c
Very nice Arnold. How do you grow this? I've never been able to keep it - & I'm not alone in the UK!
Moi aussi :( And it is difficult to obtain good seed. Currently have some seedlings from SRGC seed - hope they survive to flowering size.
Do have one pot of triandrus from a kind forumist.
Susan Band (Pitcairn Alpines) supplies excellent bulbs of N. triandrus. I had some from her in 2008 &, as usual, killed them within a year.
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Narcissus triandrus w/c
Very nice Arnold. How do you grow this? I've never been able to keep it - & I'm not alone in the UK!
Moi aussi :( And it is difficult to obtain good seed. Currently have some seedlings from SRGC seed - hope they survive to flowering size.
Do have one pot of triandrus from a kind forumist.
Strange plant I seem to remember some years ago that you could buy these by the 10 for a few pence. I suppose because I haven't got a garden full there must be something more complex going on. Some very kind person has also given me a bulb of this so it will be interesting to compare notes as the season progresses.
Now for something different N henriquesii. I like to multi headed ones. Apologies for the quality of the photo due to low light levels
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For us Narcissus novices Ian, any chance you could tell us a little more about this beauty, please. :) :)
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My copy of Blanchard is out on loan at the moment so can't check, but I think this is N. jonquilla var. henriquesii. Gerry may be able to correct me if my memory is wrong. Very nice Ian and I suspect it smells very nice too. Whoops, hadn't seen your post Ron when I posted mine, I should have given Ian chance to reply.
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My copy of Blanchard is out on loan at the moment so can't check, but I think this is N. jonquilla var. henriquesii. Gerry may be able to correct me if my memory is wrong. Very nice Ian and I suspect it smells very nice too. Whoops, hadn't seen your post Ron when I posted mine, I should have given Ian chance to reply.
Quite correct David.
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Really? Grow as a 'normal' Jonquilla? Referring to 'henriquesii' and nothing else!
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Narcissus triandrus w/c
Very nice Arnold. How do you grow this? I've never been able to keep it - & I'm not alone in the UK!
Moi aussi :( And it is difficult to obtain good seed. Currently have some seedlings from SRGC seed - hope they survive to flowering size.
Do have one pot of triandrus from a kind forumist.
Strange plant I seem to remember some years ago that you could buy these by the 10 for a few pence. I suppose because I haven't got a garden full there must be something more complex going on. Some very kind person has also given me a bulb of this so it will be interesting to compare notes as the season progresses.
Now for something different N henriquesii. I like to multi headed ones. Apologies for the quality of the photo due to low light levels
Yes Ian, I also remember when they were cheap & widely available - e.g., in Woolworths. I suspect they were of wild origin. They were no easier to grow then.
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I can't get the above post to format properly.
edit by maggi: I've wrestled it into submission for you, Gerry! Took me three 'goes'! ;)
Maggi - you are a jewel beyond compare.
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For us Narcissus novices Ian, any chance you could tell us a little more about this beauty, please. :) :)
Ron
These I grow in pots but some of the hybrid jonquills seem to do well outside eg "baby moon" etc. but the jonquill species barely survive outside for me - wrong climate!!!
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Thanks Ian. :) Do you mean too wet in summer?
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These I grow in pots but some of the hybrid jonquills seem to do well outside eg "baby moon" etc. but the jonquill species barely survive outside for me - wrong climate!!!
Thats curious Ian since 'Baby Moon' - N. jonquilla var. minor x N. jonquilla - is about as close to the species as you can get.
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3 pics from last Monday. Very bad winter Narcissus season in the wild this year due the drought in south Spain. They are N. muñozii-garmendiae, a Narcissus from Bulbocodium secction, although I know it since many years I still don't know which species is it, and N. albicans (sorry for the picture, lot of wind)
I'll make a note concerning N. triandrus pallidulus, to donate more seeds next season.
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These I grow in pots but some of the hybrid jonquills seem to do well outside eg "baby moon" etc. but the jonquill species barely survive outside for me - wrong climate!!!
Thats curious Ian since 'Baby Moon' - N. jonquilla var. minor x N. jonquilla - is about as close to the species as you can get.
Gerry
Perhaps its just hybrid vigour but that it what is like for me
Thanks Ian. :) Do you mean too wet in summer?
Usually difficult to dry them out but it would have been OK last summer we had virtually no rain all summer though little heat
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These I grow in pots but some of the hybrid jonquills seem to do well outside eg "baby moon" etc. but the jonquill species barely survive outside for me - wrong climate!!!
Thats curious Ian since 'Baby Moon' - N. jonquilla var. minor x N. jonquilla - is about as close to the species as you can get.
Gerry
Perhaps its just hybrid vigour but that it what is like for me
You could be right about hybrid vigour Ian. A plant I have which may be 'BabyMoon' is certainly very vigorous, though not tried outside yet.
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3 pics from last Monday. Very bad winter Narcissus season in the wild this year due the drought in south Spain. They are N. muñozii-garmendiae, a Narcissus from Bulbocodium secction, although I know it since many years I still don't know which species is it, and N. albicans (sorry for the picture, lot of wind)
I'll make a note concerning N. triandrus pallidulus, to donate more seeds next season.
What an interesting Narcissus albicans - just looks as N. romieuxii extended its range to the north!
Rafa, Why do you mean that the drought in the southern parts of Spain had an effect on your region?
Gerd
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Gerd, most of plants in this location were Narcissus albicans f. white (it is a name I use, not valid) and very few plants turned to yellow. In addition there were a residual number of N. bulbocodium aff. subsp. nivalis (3 plants) and few hybrids with N. albicans. They were similar to N. albicans f. pale yellow, but little like this aff subsp. nivalis.
In my village there is not drought thanks to the snow, but there are no rains since many months. Most of Peinsula Iberica has drought, in fat Galicia is starting to use the program against fires, but is not rare, as they replaced the original woods by Eucaliptus...
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Narcissus Mitimoto
Usually one flower to a stem; perianth segments insignificant compared with the dominant corona. Small flowers resemble a 'hoop petticoat' form.
Season:
Glenbrook Bulb Farm
Tasmania, Australia
Fl. 38-40 mm wide, facing up; petals are very narrow, acute, yellowish-white overlaid with green, spreading, plane, smooth, and separated; large ballooned-shaped cup of lemon-yellow; sweetly scented. Barwick's first bicolor bulbocodium bloomed in 1989. Unlike sibling 'Fyno', it has a vivid lemon yellow cup. Also sibling to 'Olumbo'. Blooms late winter to early spring.
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oops.
Narcissus Mitimoto
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Mitimoto is very nice Arnold. I must have a look and see what's happened to mine.
A couple from me today.
Narcissus 'Candlepower' This one from Anne Wright's List.
Narcissus fernandesii var. cordubensis. This one a gift from Tony Willis and collected by him from Grazelema, Southern Spain
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Nice David.
The frill on the corolla is a bit different than mine.
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Most of Peinsula Iberica has drought, in fat Galicia is starting to use the program against fires, but is not rare, as they replaced the original woods by Eucaliptus...
Rafa,
Thank you for your notes! No rains even in Galicia seems to be a serious matter - I hope in the rest of 2012 will be
some more precipitation in your country - although disappearing Eucalyptus are not bad!
Gerd
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The frill on the corolla is a bit different than mine.
You're right Arnold I've copied your cordubensis pic here, the top one of the two, and underneath another pic of mine for comparison
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Whilst I'm on comparisons here's a repeat of my pic above of Candlepower and then one I took last year. This illustrates how the corona changes colour as the plant ages. This years pic shows the plant as it has just opened.
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Great posts David! :o. Shows the danger of judging a plant from a photo. :-X
Nice plants by the way, (thought you only had leaves this year you trickster ;D ;D)
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(thought you only had leaves this year you trickster ;D ;D)
I've still got a lot of leaves, not many flowers but a lot of leaves, but I don't bother picturing them ;D
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I'm reeeeeaaaallyyy into leaves this year :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
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Yours are both very nice, David :)
Ron, I'm also in a leafy season especialy for autumn - early flowerling narcissus :(
Here is a pot with relatively large parabolas from 'Narcissus 'Atlas Gold' x self' :)
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That is a big one Tatsuo. I had thought Atlas Gold was sterile too.
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Tetsuo - that's very nice.
David - 'Atlas Gold' is simply a selection of N. romieuxii made by Pottertons in 1993. It's not a hybrid & is perfectly fertile.
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Yes, 'Atlas Gold' is fertile for me too but all the seedlings have been approx true to colour. It's selected from the same JCA collection as 'Julia Jane' and some others.
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Narcissus 'Flashback' finally reflexed fully today despite the dreariness.
johnw - +6c and rain
Sorry's here's the photo.
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Nice example John.
I did wonder whether to bother posting these (and especially so in view of Ian McEnery's lovely pot of Narcissus jonquilla var henrichesii a couple of days ago) but since both show my ability to grow leaves and not flowers and the henriquesii shows I have a contented snail somewhere in the greenhouse and I can't find it, I decided I would.
Narcissus 'Small Talk' bought last autumn and seven bulbs in the pot. One in flower, one to come!
N. jonquilla var. henriquesii, fodder for a contented snail and lotsa leaves.
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David and Gerry, thanks :)
John, nice one :) Is Narcissus 'Flashback' larger and more robust than cyclamineus species? Looks very similar for me in the picture.
A Narcissus romieuxii with almost flat disk, selected from seedlings. We had a bit chilly winter (min. -4c :o :o :o) here and blooming time of this plant is almost a month later than the last season.
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I really like that one YT, ;D ;D ;D. Everyones tastes are different, but that's my type of Narcissus. 8) 8) 8)
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Thank you, Ron :) Me too ;D The seeds were from Germany. I've already done self pollination on this flower yet ;) ;D 8)
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John, nice one :) Is Narcissus 'Flashback' larger and more robust than cyclamineus species? Looks very similar for me in the picture.
Tatsuo - As mentioned Flashback's flower is 1/4 larger than cyclamineus. The leaves are much stouter and taller. It has not been terribly vigorous for me but my mix may not have been to its liking. It may prove to be easier to grow but lacks the magic of the species itself.
Very nice flat disc romeiuxii.
johnw
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John, thank you very much for your further information :) I did not read your earlyer post, sorry for bother you :-[
Sounds good for naturalising because cyclamineus species seems too small and delicate to survive in my garden. I'll look for and try this vigorous one ;)
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Some great posts, everyone. Rafa, it's very good to see these in the wild.
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Two more pots of mini trumpets open today. I'll have something for the N Ireland Daffodil Group winter show this Sunday
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Sorry for this bad picture, it is only to show this bulbocodium, wich is the talest one I ever seen 21cm. Two erect leaves per bulb 23cm long, green and glossy. Not far from them grown another species very close to subsp. nivalis.
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What a huge one, Rafa :o Is the flower size also larger than the normal one?
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The flowers are quite big, without scent, but not so big than N. obesus.
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Rafa I was just going to ask if you knew what this one was, most of the flowers are 30cm and the tall ones 40cm. It is a seedling growing in the middle of a Dianthus,so I cant move it.
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It's very happy, whatever it is!
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Thank you, Rafa :) I suppose its flower stems must be firm because they stand alone even holding larger sized flowers at the top of the tall stems.
A nice big one, Michael :o
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Narcissus calcicola
Narcissus cantabricus clusii petunoid
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Very nice indeed Arnold. Do you know anything about the origin of your N. calcicola? Perhaps my favourite narcissus.
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Both lovely Arnold but I'm not sure where the name came from for the cantabricus? Blanchard doesn't mention 'clusii' and neither does the RHS Botanical Classification List but both. Blanchard (grudgingly) and the RHS give petunioides varietal status.
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Michael, I am almost sure your beatuiful clump is Narcissus bulbocodium subsp. validus, probably the biggest bulbocodium, although not so tall in the nature. I collected seeds several times of this species and it could be 70cm high to the capsules! trying to be more tall than the herbs. This subsp. has 3-4 rough and wide leaves per bulb with certain vegetative division capacity. It also smells like insecticide. Tatsuo, you are right it is very slender The bulbocodium I pictured is "junciform" in al its parts, without scent and two leves per bulb without vegetative division.
I will try t collect seeds to compare it in culture with the other species.
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Thanks Rafa, I will label it accordingly.
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Both lovely Arnold but I'm not sure where the name came from for the cantabricus? Blanchard doesn't mention 'clusii' and neither does the RHS Botanical Classification List but both. Blanchard (grudgingly) and the RHS give petunioides varietal status.
Kew monocot list - N. clusii is a synonym for N. cantabricus subsp. cantabricus. See also Blanchard p190.
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here 3 pictures.
N. cantabricus
N. x neocarpetanus nothovar. romanensis
N. bulbocodium
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As far as I know, var. petuioides is part of the normal variability of the species. In fact in every population you can find var. petunioides, var. subpetunioides, var. sub-sub petunioides... and so.
N. graellsii, has also a good range of corona angle. To me this is not an important character in taxonomy, but maybe are interesting for horticultural purposes.
There are also other occasional character that also are normal like 2 flowers per scape http://www.biodiversidadvirtual.org/herbarium/Narcissus-bulbocodium-L-subsp-graellsii-Webb-KRicht-img8728.html
I have seen this forms in other strictly uniflower species.
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Narcissus bulbocodium from Morocco
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Another species from Morocco, N. jacquemoudii. Also N. x matritensis and an unknow subsp. or species to me, but the best bulbocodium I ever grow, with lemon scent
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Another species from Morocco, N. jacquemoudii. Also N. x matritensis and an unknow subsp. or species to me, but the best bulbocodium I ever grow, with lemon scent
Rafa love the x matritensis
Here are my cyclamineus just starting to flower
Although they are still seeding around I think they suffered because of our drought last year
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beautiful group in contrast with Cyclamen!
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I apologise for the poor photos, but I am hoping that someone can confirm the identity I have on my labels.
The greenhouse smells wonderful now that these narcissus have flowered :)
9627/8 I believe to be N.fernandesii
9629 I believe to be N. cordubensis
9631/2 Another N. fernandesii
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Narcissus obesus x triand, from Anne Wright.
Narcissus minor Douglasbank
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Lovely plants Art and Michael. ;D ;D
Are they grown outside all year round?
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My plants are grown in a cold frame and brought into the greenhouse at flowering time. Keeps the flowers from getting damaged and makes the photography easier. :)
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Thanks Michael. Do they go straight back out after flowering? They seem to thrive on your regime. :)
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Yes, straight back to the frame after flowering.
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Thank you, Michael. :)
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My plants spent a long time outdoors - not even in a frame - and were brought into a frost free greenhouse when the snow was forecast.
They will remain there until they finish flowering when they will go outside.
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Here are my cyclamineus just starting to flower
Ian - Are your cyclamineus in a fair bit of shade?
johnw
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Here are my cyclamineus just starting to flower
Ian - Are your cyclamineus in a fair bit of shade?
johnw
No John they have spread in little patches in shady and sunny parts of the garden. I know this plant can be difficult for some but locally I know a number of growers that find this not too difficult and I think an open light but humus rich slightly acidic soil which doesn't dry out is what is needed. As a matter of interest these are the residue from 10 dry bulbs I bought many years ago for about 20p -ah those were the days!!
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Narcissus cyclamineus
This is one of the most rewarding narcissus I grow. It increases slowly but steadily, flowers regularly & the flowers are quite long lasting.
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Stunning Gerry! :o 8) 8)
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Really nice plants Gerry,
This is Narcissus x montielanus, the direccion in this particular nothovariety is N. blancoi x N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus, is uniflower and no scented. The other nothovariety is Narcissus triandrus subsp. pallidulus x Narcissus blancoi and it is multiflower and scented.
Also a picture of N. blancoi. Some authors, think it is in fact N. hedraeanthus, or N. hedraeanthus subsp. luteolenta, but I support N. blancoi.
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Rafa - I'm more familiar with the name N. hedraeanthus subsp. luteolentus. Why do you support
N. blancoi? Kew regard this as a synonym for N. albicans (Haw.) Spreng. Whatever the name, it's an attractive little plant.
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Gerry, in my opinion Narcissus albicans and Narcissus blancoi are only similar in one thing: they have a recent hybrid origin. Sorry about this and with due respect to KEW but it is wrong, Narcissus albicans and Narcissus blancoi are not the same species. Maybe they analyze a herbarium sheet wrongly identified by his collector... I will explain my self better ins some hours.
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Flowers often 2 per stem; petals reflexed, sulfur colored. This daffodil is a N. x taitii selection, formerly N. x johnstonii; Selection was made by Peter Barr (1888) from wild-collected material from Spain. Name cannot be applied with certainty to any one of several clones of N. x taitii (formerly known as N. x johnstonii)
Narcissus dubius
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Well Gerry, here I am,
It is not easy to determine a border between N. hedraeanthus and N. blancoi, as the same way is not easy to determine a border with certain white N. albicans and N. cantabricus.
The current taxonomic tendency is: "hoop petticoat+white= N. cantabricus, something luteolentus will be N. hedraeanthus and yellow+hoop petticoat= N. bulbocodium" L.
I think it is not serious to start any classification with plants that have unknown localities:
Narcissus bulbocodium L. Type locality between Sevilla and Portugal ¿¿?¿??¿? this is like nothing...
Narcissus cantabricus DC. Type locality ¿?¿?¿ Pyrenees?¿?¿ this is directly false
This imprecision have many implications, because I think N. cantabricus contains several species and N. bulbocodium as well. When subsps or species of N. cantabricus and N. bulbocodium get together they offer different hybrids that becomes fertile and their speciation done different results of Narcissus albicans. This might also happen in Morocco, with all the bulbocodiums there, forming such a complex group.
For the moment I know 4 different Narcissus albicans in the wild, that I freely name as:
1.- form 'cantabricus': very big one, more white than N. cantabricus, grows in most of places not easy to make a distribution map.. It smell like cantabricus.
2.- form 'bulbocodium': it is like a pale N. bulbocodium, smelling like N. cantabricus with narrow and long leaves, smelling like N. bulbocodium. It has a range of colours.
3.- form 'stable': more similar to N. cantabricus, brown tunics, several long leaves per bulb, greenish white, smelling like N. cantabricus.
4.- Isolated form without relation with other species, like f. bulbocodium, but with a stable colour and smelling like N. cantabricus.
At the same time there are several hybrids that have called N. x barrae, N. x neocarpetanus... but I think it is impossible to know those hybrids if we don't know their parents first. I find hybrids in both directions between "N. albicans f. cantabricus" and "N. aff nivalis", between "N. bulbocodium ?¿??" and "N. albicans f. cantabricus", between "N. bulbocodium ¿?¿ and N. cantabricus", between N. bulbocodium and N. albicans f. bulbocodium etc...
The problem with N. blancoi are quite similar. They are in general bigger plants than N. hedraeanthus, with erect and long leaves. There are isolated localities and other places where I think they are mixed in one case with N. hedraeanthus, making range of plants, impossible to identify, and other places that N. blancoi is mixed with N. cantabricus, where it is more easy to make the differences, due the color pigmentation and scent. N. blancoi hasn't scent.
Lately I am considering there is no implication of N. cantabricus in the hybrid origin of N. blancoi, it would be possible the species is fact N. albicans f. cantabricus. Recently I research a locality, where they grow together. This could justified the big size of the plants comparing N. hedraeanthus and N. cantabricus.
I have a request to all of you. If you are growing N. hedraeanthus, could you please tell me if it is scented, I don't remember.... Scent are really important as is inherited, the bencenoids and isoprenodis that form the fragrance can help much than many other considerations, I think.
so difficult to explain in my basic English!! :-[ ;D
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Rafa - your "basic English" is infinitely superior to my basic Spanish & your explanation is just fine. Thank you very much. We really do need that new monograph!
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Thank you Gerry.
To be sincere, the more I know about Narcissus more difficoult to understand.... The first time I visit the thing that we use to call "natural genetic labs" I returned frightened!! ;D For the moment, I focus my neurones in understand bulbocodium group but there are also similar complex scenarios with big trumpets, autumn Narcissi, jonquillas group, tazetta group... it is mad.
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See also discussions in Iris, Fritillaria, Galanthus, Crocus etc. etc. threads. ;)
I agree Rafa, it makes my head hurt too. ??? ???
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To be sicere, the more I know about Narcissus more difficoult to understand.... The first time I visit the thing that we use to call "natural genetic labs" I returned frightened!! ;D For the moment, I focus my neurones in understand bulbocodium group but there are also similar complex scenarios with big trumpets, autumn Narcissi, jonquillas group, tazetta group... it is mad.
Rafa, eso es! :(
Gerd
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N. cantabricus (probably) 'petunioides' is flowering :) One of my bulb friends kindly sent me 3 bulbs of this 'petunioides' last summer. He won 10 bulbs of these in an internet auction and gave me 3 for using cross pollinating to my petunioides seedlings from JJA Seeds. Unfortunately my JJA stock plants suddenly lost its vigour last autumn and have no flowers this season :'( So I pollinated it by itself.
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WOW :o :) :o
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A trip to Threave gardens today revealed many clumps of Narc. cyclamineus. Most of them about the same size as the picture
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wow I've never seen so many in such a small area
N. lagoi open pollinated showing some variation
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A few more of mine:-
Narcissus bulbocodium var. graellsii
A lovely little yellow trumpet (stem 10cm high) I got from Brian Duncan last year. Brian just described it as a little yellow trumpet seedling for which he had lost the label.
Narcissus 'Wee Bee'
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Very nice, David. I love the green stripes on graelsii.
Some various N hedreanthus etc for Rafa:
From Rannveig Wallis, as N. luteolentus, sweet scent:
[attach=1]
From seed exchange, as N. hedreanthus -no scent:
[attach=2]
From Brian Duncan, as N. hedreanthus luteolentus -no scent:
[attach=3]
From seed exchange, as N. hedreanthus luteolentus -no scent:
[attach=4]
From Brian Duncan, N. hedreanthus luteolentus yellow form -no scent:
[attach=5]
Lastly, a tiny N. bulbocodium labelled 'ex Braganca' from Brian Duncan - smell of pepper, and seems to be pollen sterile:
[attach=6]
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Other N. hedreanthus that I have, have gone over, so cannot comment on scent or not.
Narcissus Mitzi is a new one to me and an immediate favourite. I've pleased that some of the new crop of hybrids are very similar in miniature.
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Finally, a N jacetanus for Rafa to play with, a nice pot of N. 'Coo' I hope will last for Loughborough, and the strange, rather baroque N. eugenae that is performing well this year.
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Quite a display Anne !! Wonderful selection !
I have Narcissus "Mitzi" flowering out in the garden as well ! :D
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Some nice seedlings there, Anne. I especially like the white/cream one in the last pic.
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And that N. eugenae is pretty wow! 8)
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An absolutely wonderful collection shown beautifully Anne. I hope at least some will be available to view 'in the flesh' at Loughborough, :) :-\.
What do you think?
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I hope so. I've had to cover all the greenhouse vents with mesh to keep the queen bumblebees out. In one day they had drilled holes in many of my flowers to rob the nectar.
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David & Anne - lovely Narcissus.
Anne - I like your description of N. eugenae as "baroque" - seems most apt.
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It is rather over-endowed with twiddly bits..
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OMG Anne look at your mini daffs. One week and I will be able to see them with my own eyes wh-hoo
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I'm trying to keep my mits off them for you to see, Mark, but some have made the ultimate sacrifice already, and have been mutilated for breeding
porpoises purposes.
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noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
No hostas for you!
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:'( :'(
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Only joking. After all I need a bed
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I was going to put you in one of my new covered beds.
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Anne:
The N. eugenae Clone 1 is a stunner!
A seedling, foundling, hybrid?
Jim
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I wonder if anyone recognizes this Nariccus hybrid. I imported it in late 2007, the shots are from 10 April 2008 and I was certain I posted a photo of it. Unfortunately it prompty died, virus as I recall.
(Later found to be N. 'Tracey')
johnw
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I was going to put you in one of my new covered beds.
Anne - I'm not sure there is a suitable thread in which to post these sorts of private matters. ;)
johnw
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;D ;D
Your daffodil might be Emcys.
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I wonder if anyone recognizes this Nariccus hybrid. I imported it in late 2007, the shots are from 10 April 2008 and I was certain I posted a photo of it. Unfortunately it prompty died, virus as I recall.
johnw
John - in my experience par for the course with imported daffodils.
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Jim, it arrived as one of 2 seedlings from exchange seeds. Below is the pot of the 2 seedlings, quite different.
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Your daffodil might be Emcys.
I would gree with Anne http://marksgardenplants.com/gallery%20mark/miniaturesline5.htm (http://marksgardenplants.com/gallery%20mark/miniaturesline5.htm)
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Wow, fantastic show! 8) I think I am going to pass some weeks in UK to learn how do you grow so good Narcissus!!
Narcissus eugeniae, is retired by his author, and its considered as N. confusus, or even more syntetic by Flora Iberica as N. pseudonarcissus.
I have seen this pale form in just one N. confusus locality.
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Anne & Mark - After much digging last night I found the receipt and the Narcissus was 'Tracey'.
johnw
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It certainly confuses me, Rafa. But I am happy to hear this form occurs in the wild. I was afraid it might be a garden hybrid, especially as it seems to be sterile.
Any thoughts on the hedreanthus in my earlier post?
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I forgot to show this beauty of Rafa's earlier.
N. x matritensis
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Oh WOW ! Absolutely perfect Anne :o :o :o. I dont grow many Narcissus sp. but that one is stunning. I ( and I'm sure many others!) will be hoping to grow that one day.
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Narcissus asturiensis
Perfect miniatures, 5 cm tall.
(I’ve just noticed the aphid)
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Just back from visiting a local garden. Warm and lovely sunshine except for one short shower. The early miniature Narcissus were fabulous. I'm so stupid ... I had my camera with me and never thought of taking photos. Wavertree is prolific and a beauty. Hopefully it will be on lists this summer.
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Tracey for John
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Tracey for John
Mark - Thanks, the one here did fade out quickly to white and then faded out.
johnw
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Here's another clone of Narcissus cordubensis. Slightly different corolla.
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Jim, it arrived as one of 2 seedlings from exchange seeds. Below is the pot of the 2 seedlings, quite different.
It's a good reminder to some new seed every so often of a species we think we know.
Too bad about the name change. Eugenae is so lovely. Confusa sounds more like my state of mind when trying to key out species.
It's lovely, regardless of the name. Well done! Thanks for sharing with us.
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Some of the smaller narcissus in bloom the past couple of weeks here in my Bellevue/Seattle patio garden:
N. 'Cecil Nice' (3 views) named for the head gardener of Nymans, UK, decades ago, possibly by Graham Thomas whom Mr. Nice gave it to as "something special". Any idea of its parentage? I like how the bud is like a balloon as it opens. The top three to four petals remain stuck together at the tips for at least a day before finally breaking apart into the star shape.
N. 'Gypsy Queen' with is so foward looking, like a deer or dog listening to something ahead. 2 photos
N. 'Jana' (1 view) again from Graham Thomas from another friend. Does anyone know it well enough to say it's correct? I find two different flowers under that name online. It's tall, about 13" when at peak.
N. 'Midget' (1 view). It is a midget, the flowers not above the leaves, but poking out. Very cute.
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I was going to put you in one of my new covered beds.
Better search his pockets when he gets up in the morning. ;D
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Lesley, who says I sleep with clothes on? No jim jams on me :D
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Jim is Jana a miniature?
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Lesley, who says I sleep with clothes on? No jim jams on me :D
Too much information, Mark ;D
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Part two of small narcissus I'm growing:
N. 'Pledge' upon opening
N. 'Pledge' 6 days later. I like this color phase
N. 'Wedding Morn' front and profile views.
N. pallidiflorus front and profile views. From Beth Chatto who got it from Cedric Morris. I put its pollen on 'Wedding Morn' without knowing if compatible; but WM's stigma pulled the pollen off my hand like a magnetic from about an 1/16th of an inch away! Proving opposites do attract even in narcissus.
Jim
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Cecil Nice is on Daffseek:
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Cecil%20Nice&lastpage=1&
I looked up the delightful Jana, and it falls into the annoyingly imprecise 'Dwarf - less than 32.5 cm (12.8 in)' category. Such a description is of no use at all, and makes me want to SHOUT!
A very nice selection, Jim. I'll be interested to know if you get fertile seeds from your cross. Crossing hoops and trumpets always fails with me.
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Jim is Jana a miniature?
'Jana' was in bloom at about 9 inches high, then brought indoors to the nursery's south window and in artificial heat for 5 days, so is now about 12+- inches tall, the stems promptly bending over when put outside yesterday.
The flower is about 2 inches wide and 2.5"+- long from trumpet to back swept petals. It's the latter which bother me about the i.d. Some photos show petals swept back in a non-uniform way, where as mine is very symmetrical.
It was dug from the very same clump as pictured in Graham's "The Garden Through the Year" book, which it doesn't quite match.
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Cecil Nice is on Daffseek:
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Cecil%20Nice&lastpage=1&
I looked up the delightful Jana, and it falls into the annoyingly imprecise 'Dwarf - less than 32.5 cm (12.8 in)' category. Such a description is of no use at all, and makes me want to SHOUT!
A very nice selection, Jim. I'll be interested to know if you get fertile seeds from your cross. Crossing hoops and trumpets always fails with me.
Anne:
I used Daffseek for 'Jana' but didn't even think of it for 'Cecil Nice'. Thank you very much. I'll check it out.
Re. 'Jana', no wonder it was hard for me to decide if it was a miniature or not. Graham used to grow it in his rough grass and orchard at his first 'Briar Cottage' garden, so I assumed it had to have some height to be seen. He always kept the smallest ones nearer the house or rough grass edges in both 'Briar Cottage' gardens.
Re: the cross - as I always tell customers "thank goodness the plants don't always read the books!"
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I should have said nearly always fails. I got seedlings of asturiensis x hedreanthus.
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I don't know if I am following correctly the thread, is there a cultivar called 'Eugenae' the one which is pale and sterile? Thes species I mentioned as syn of N. confusus is 'Eugeniae' which hasn't got any known pale forms. As Anne said, I think this pale trumpet is a cultivar, but as I have seen pale forms in a N. confusus locality maybe it could also happen in a locality traditionally known as N. eugeniae., but I have never heard about it.
The name 'Eugeniae' is in honour to Maria Eugenia.
Anne, let me think about your hedraeathus question. Contrary to what I usually do, this time I don't dare be too adventurous, without knowing the collection localities or if N. hedraeanthus has scent. Apart from the huge variability that N. blancoi has, that offers a wide range of posible interpretations in order to be to be assimilated by N. hedraeanthus, the scent would be a stronger argument (at least for me) to defend N. blancoi as a separate species. I am sure there will be different alkaloids in N. hedraeantus and N. blancoi, probably you will find alkaloids in N. blancoi that you could also find in cantabricus/albicans complex, but you won't find them in N. hedraeanthus.... but this is only my intuition.
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Jim - Pledge is very nice. How small is it?
johnw
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I don't know if I am following correctly the thread, is there a cultivar called 'Eugenae' the one which is pale and sterile? Thes species I mentioned as syn of N. confusus is 'Eugeniae' which hasn't got any known pale forms. As Anne said, I think this pale trumpet is a cultivar, but as I have seen pale forms in a N. confusus locality maybe it could also happen in a locality traditionally known as N. eugeniae., but I have never heard about it.
Rafa - I assumed that 'Eugenae' was a typo (which I carelessly repeated in my comment).
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Jim - Pledge is very nice. How small is it?
johnw
About 9+- inches tall with flowers about 2.5 inches across and 2.5 inches in depth. It's a larger flowered miniature in my mind, but very well proportioned. Here's a link at daffseek with a ruler next to the flower which matches what I thought. http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Pledge&lastpage=1&
It is classed as a miniature. That's what I'm keen on, especially all the Alex Gray hybrids which I find hard to track down - or to find the more common ones without virus. Just tossed a new 'Quince' where the emerging leaves were green and yellow striped from virus. And where can a person find a virus free 'Tete a Tete" anymore?
Jim
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I don't know if I am following correctly the thread, is there a cultivar called 'Eugenae' the one which is pale and sterile? Thes species I mentioned as syn of N. confusus is 'Eugeniae' which hasn't got any known pale forms.
My typo, too, in part of this thread, Rafa. I meant Eugeniae. Time for a new prescription on my glasses.
Jim
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Jim, please bring some of your beautiful plants to our chapter meeting next week! ;)
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The name 'Eugeniae' is in honour to Maria Eugenia.
Mea culpa :-[ My apologies to Maria Eugenia.
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Some of the smaller narcissus in bloom the past couple of weeks here in my Bellevue/Seattle patio garden:
N. 'Cecil Nice' (3 views) named for the head gardener of Nymans, UK, decades ago, possibly by Graham Thomas whom Mr. Nice gave it to as "something special". Any idea of its parentage? I like how the bud is like a balloon as it opens. The top three to four petals remain stuck together at the tips for at least a day before finally breaking apart into the star shape.
N. 'Gypsy Queen' with is so foward looking, like a deer or dog listening to something ahead. 2 photos
N. 'Jana' (1 view) again from Graham Thomas from another friend. Does anyone know it well enough to say it's correct? I find two different flowers under that name online. It's tall, about 13" when at peak.
N. 'Midget' (1 view). It is a midget, the flowers not above the leaves, but poking out. Very cute.
Jim,
According to Daffseek N. 'Cecil Nice' was raised by John Blanchard and was first registered in 1997. It was a self sown seedling with N. cyclamineus as the seed parent. Nice example Jim.
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Cecil%20Nice&lastpage=1&
As far as N. 'Jana' is concerned, again according to Daffseek, this is an old Alec Gray raising (prior to 1949). Seed parent Ncyclamineus, pollen parent N. G L Wilson (Y-R seedling). Lots of pics on Dafsfeek
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Jana&lastpage=1&
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Oh sorry Anne, nothing to apologize. I just thought 'Eugenae' could be a cultivar selection from N. eugeniae F. Casas. There are so many names in cultivars that all is possible...
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No problem! I was too lazy to check.. ::)
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Over the years I've accumulated a number of Narcissus bulbocodium forms and the following are some from Brian Duncan's Lists. The labels are as Brian described them.
Narcissus bulbocodium var. citrinus (Landes Form) x large golden obesus type
N. bulbocodium ex 96/200. Apologies for the poor quality close up shot.
N. bulbocodium 02-143
Pressure on space is such that I shall probably cease to maintain these in separate pots next year.
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One of my favourit little Daffs-Anne Wright's 'Jim Lad'
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They're nice N.bulbocodiums though David. :) :). Did you ever try them in the garden?
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No I haven't Ron. I did once try some bulbocodium conspicuus and they lasted one season before rotting away. To my eye many of the ones I have are really very similar and I wondered about putting them in a larger pot and watering them a little later than I normally do in the hope that I might get a pot-full worth sticking on the bench at the South West AGS Show.
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Both of the following came to me as asturiensis. The first is one raised from wild seed sown in 2007 and the second with a collection no. from a well known grower. It is difficult to show the difference in size - which is considerable- due to both being well rooted in the plunge. Also the flower form is quite different. Can anyone say if there is a lot of variation in the wild??
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Oh I certainly would have a go David, with such good material, ;D ;D. Its got to be worth a try ;)
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Ian - my understanding, largely derived from Blanchard, is that there is a lot of variation & N. asturiensis overlaps with N. minor (so-called) which, apparently, is only known as a garden plant.
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Ian - my understanding, largely derived from Blanchard, is that there is a lot of variation & N. asturiensis overlaps with N. minor (so-called) which, apparently, is only known as a garden plant.
Thank you Gerry for that. It amazing that some species can vary so much.
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I also have lots of leaves this year and few flowers on my narcissus this year.
This one looks good - grown from AGS seed in 1992 as Narcissus graellsii but much bigger than other graellsiis I've seen. It stayed as 3 bulbs for a long time but did split last year and I was able to pass on a few bulbs to Ian Y.
Narcissus jacetanus loking good in the frame
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Roma, I can now see how etiolated some of my stuff is. Compare my graellsii in Reply 261 with yours :(
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Ian - my understanding, largely derived from Blanchard, is that there is a lot of variation & N. asturiensis overlaps with N. minor (so-called) which, apparently, is only known as a garden plant.
Thank you Gerry for that. It amazing that some species can very so much.
Ian - there are quite a number of previous posts on N. asturiensis. Try search, entering N. asturiensis & Rafa as the poster.
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Another N. bulbocodium form from Brian Duncan-N. bulbocodium SEL 2847
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Narcissus moschatus and a USA raised one, Narcissus 'Wyandot'
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The Narcissus moschatus is very nice :)
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I like it too - well grown.
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But, shall I still have it next year? This will be my third attempt to keep it for more than one flowering.
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But, shall I still have it next year? This will be my third attempt to keep it for more than one flowering.
You are made of stronger stuff than me David; I gave up after one attempt. Many imported narcissus now behave as annuals, though in their first season they look perfectly healthy & flower well. Of the half dozen or so forms I have bought in recent years only N. 'Minnow' has lasted more than one year. I don't know what treatment the growers give to make them behave in this way though it is obviously in their interests that they do.
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Narcissus bulbocodium ssp obesus
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A couple of pics from the wild. Very very bad season this year.
N. nivalis
N. confusus
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Thank you for finding these, then, Rafa. What is the cause of the bad season, do you think?
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I think and important drought has contributed. It only snow, I mean snow one time since autumn and no rains. For example in Madrid, any rain or snow since several months... 2 or 3
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Narcissus bulbocodium
From a collection by Bob & Rannveig Wallis (RRW8832); Tahanout, High Atlas, Morocco
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Very nice Gerry and an excellent image too.
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Thanks David. Like you I seem to have accumulated quite a lot of rather similar, yellow bulbocodiums (& we smile at galanthophiles!). As for the image - that seems to be a matter of luck with the lighting; sometimes yellows are captured very poorly.
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I agree with David, great image.
I have a great deal of difficulty capturing the detail with a monochrome subject.
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Thanks Arnold. As I remarked to David, I was just lucky with the light conditions. I have a relatively inexpensive Canon camera but it does have the virtue of being able to switch to "spot metering". Following advice from Ian Young, I now always use this for macro shots. If your camera has this feature, I suggest you try it; I found it resulted in a dramatic improvement in image quality.
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Gerry could it be Narcissus jeanmonodii?
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Narcissus cantabricus: Spain, Madrid, Aldea del fresno. 500m. Clay. R. D. Dominguez coll., from JJA Seeds. Thanks Rafa ;D
The seeds were sowed in Oct. 2009 and this is the first bloom :) :) :)
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Narcissus cantabricus: Spain, Madrid, Aldea del fresno. 500m. Clay. R. D. Dominguez coll., from JJA Seeds. Thanks Rafa ;D
The seeds were sowed in Oct. 2009 and this is the first bloom :) :) :)
Perfect!
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Exquisite Tatsuo.
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Narcissus bulbocodium
From a collection by Bob & Rannveig Wallis (RRW8832); Tahanout, High Atlas, Morocco
Mmm. My jeanmondii was somewaht paler in colour than Gerry's plant.
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Gerry could it be Narcissus jeanmonodii?
Rafa - I received it from the collectors - Bob & Rannveig Wallis (RRW) - as simple N. bulbocodium. In the past they have listed N. jeanmonodii separately & described it as having a long exserted stigma. In AGS Bulletin, 66 (3) p.337 Blanchard has a photo of a plant in the wild which he calls N. jeanmonodii & this has the exserted stigma. So, who knows?
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Narcissus cantabricus: Spain, Madrid, Aldea del fresno. 500m. Clay. R. D. Dominguez coll., from JJA Seeds. Thanks Rafa ;D
The seeds were sowed in Oct. 2009 and this is the first bloom :) :) :)
Very beautiful Tatsuo.
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A few Daffs from the garden today. Quite unexceptional pics I'm afraid I took them in a hurry trying to beat the rain.
Narcissus 'February Gold'-Getting on in years now as a form, it's first flowering was in 1923. Seed parent 'Golden Spur', pollen parent N. cyclamineus.
N. 'Cornish Chuckles'-I thought this was a 'local' but it was actually bred in USA. First registered 1996. Seed parent 'Matador', pollen parent N. cycalmineus.
N. 'Topolino'- Netherlands bred and a bit of a mixture.
N. 'Sailboat'- bred in USA, first registered 1980. Seed parent 'Frostkist', pollen parent N. jonquilla.
N. 'Jet Fire'- bred in USA, first registered 1966. Seed parent (Market Merryx Carbineer)xArmada) pollen parent N. cyclamineus
I've been trying to post this for nearly 45 minutes but the server times out every time I try, pics to follow.
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'February Gold' and 'Cornish Chuckles'
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'Topolino' and 'Sailboat'
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'Jet Fire'
That was a painful process.
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Even more painful, forgot to add the pic! It's an age thing.
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Thank you Gerry, I am quite confused (really? ;D) with certain Bulbocodiums from Morocco.
Tatsuo, thak you very much for posting the results with my seed collection, it's a grat pleasure to know that my efforts are useful in ex situ conservation. I think I posted time ago pictures from the place where I collected this species, but I don't find the thread
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Thank you Gerry, I am quite confused (really? ;D) with certain Bulbocodiums from Morocco.
Tatsuo, thak you very much for posting the results with my seed collection, it's a grat pleasure to know that my efforts are useful in ex situ conservation. I think I posted time ago pictures from the place where I collected this species, but I don't find the thread
Rafa - You are confused!
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No hope for us then. ???
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Narcissus bulbocodium tenuifolius. Well that's what it says on the label. :)
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Michael, many people here consider subsp. tenuifolius is subsp. obesus.
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According to the Plant List N. bulbocodium var. tenuifolius is a synonym of N. bulbocodium ssp. bulbocodium
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Narcissus in Galicia. Visited last week and was delighted to see abundant N. cyclamineus and three other species.(First attempt at posting. If this works, will try photos!)
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It worked, we're ready for 'em ;D
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Narcissus in Galicia. Visited last week and was delighted to see abundant N. cyclamineus and three other species.(First attempt at posting. If this works, will try photos!)
Welcome! .... and David's right... we're ready and waiting! ;)
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A few Daff pictures from a visit made today to Cotehele House in Cornwall. In the days before the 2nd. World War Daffodil growing was an important part of the economy in these parts with growers vying with each other to get the first of the early London markets and the best prices. When the war came along many of the Daffodil fields were turned over to food production and it's said that the hedgerows are full of very old cultivars, bulbs of which were turned up as the field were cultivated and thrown into the hedge bottoms.
I took a few pictures around Cotehele and some of these might well be old varieties, equally they could just as well be modern ones. Who knows?
The Server seems slow tonight so I'll put them on in two groups of five. The only double I saw is in Picture 8.
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Second and final batch:-
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Nrcs. in Galicia. Attaching pics obviously too ambitious for me. I'll need a tutorial before I try again.
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Is this OK?
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Wellcome Dumyat.
David, I am not agree with The Plant List, Narcissus obesus, or bulbocodium subsp. obesus is a very good taxon in my oppinion.
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Is this OK?
Sure is. Will send you some tips if you think you need them but you're on the way now. :D
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Wellcome Dumyat.
David, I am not agree with The Plant List, Narcissus obesus, or bulbocodium subsp. obesus is a very good taxon in my oppinion.
Hi Rafa, The Plant List shows N. obesus as an accepted name.
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Is this OK?
Perfect Ian, now you'll have to do the same-again....... and again ;D
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oh! so I am agree with this ;)
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Narcissus bulbocodium tenuifolius. Well that's what it says on the label. :)
If memory serves, the plants I have under that name ( a trade form) are somewhat different. They are just coming into flower so I'll try & post a photo for comparison. Michael's plants do look a little like N. obesus to me - the shape of the corona - but I'd hesitate to make any identification of these diabolical plants.
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Galicia pictures
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For me the plants I have as N bulb. var tenuifolius are a smaller version of N. bulbocodium while N. bulb obesus is, indeed, very obese. I don't see how they could be the same. I don't have a pic of tenuifolius though.
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Galicia pictures
Oh, My! These are great... look at that triandrus.... what a sweet thing. Well, supposing that was all you saw... it was worth the trip, in my opinion. :)
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Here are both Tenuifolius and Obesus that I have for comparison. They seem a lot different but them I know very little about them. :)
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Terrific pictures! dumyat, specially N. cyclamineus with the river behind.
Michale, to me both are the same. Try to smell them tomorrow to see if they have different scent.
N. conspicuus/N. tenuifolius and subsp. obesus are plants from Extremadura (Spain) and Portugal, and I would say all of them are the same N. obesus.
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It's pest not being able to go out and look at this early autumn time of year but again for me, tenuifolius has upright to lax leaves while obesus always has arching over as far as prostrate leaves, the flowers upright above them. My tenuifolius may well be wrong though as the flowers are smaller and more like nivalis.
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David, nice photos of the possibly old cultivars.
Dumyat, I like the N. cyclamineus photo especially, but all are lovely. It is nice to see them wild.
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So is it safe to name them all Bulbocodium subsp. obesus ?
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Nothing special, just a nice clump of Tete a Tete seen on a walk, growing by a bench beside a path on a remote hillside with no other daffs for miles around. Must have been there for some time to have got to such a size. Was someone asking on here recently about virus-free stock of Tete a Tete? I couldn't see any signs of virus at all. Is all commercial stock sold now virused? I wonder if this was planted before the commercial stocks became virus-infected.
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It looks good doesn't it? It shows just why it was chosen for mass production. Common doesn't necessarily = not worth having.
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I thought it looked very good like this in a big solid clump rather than scattered around singly like you usually see in municipal grassed areas. And still very free flowering despite being congested.
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Galicia pictures
Very nice. What is the plant in the second picture?
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It's pest not being able to go out and look at this early autumn time of year but again for me, tenuifolius has upright to lax leaves while obesus always has arching over as far as prostrate leaves, the flowers upright above them. My tenuifolius may well be wrong though as the flowers are smaller and more like nivalis.
I suspect that most of the bulbocodiums in the trade are either wrongly named or so hybridised that the identity of their ancestors is lost in the mists of time.
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So is it safe to name them all Bulbocodium subsp. obesus ?
Michael, others will no doubt disagree, but all mine, including the alleged obesus forms I have, are going to be labelled Narcissus bulbocodium(Full Stop)!!
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So is it safe to name them all Bulbocodium subsp. obesus ?
Michael, others will no doubt disagree, but all mine, including the alleged obesus forms I have, are going to be labelled Narcissus bulbocodium(Full Stop)!!
That seems very sensible for trade forms David. My first thought was that it might be safe to assume that plants obtained from the collectors or raised from JJA seed are what they are said to be. However, on second thoughts, & given the problems with identification & nomenclature, it might be a good idea to follow your suggestion with all the yellow hoop-petticoats.
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;D ;D ;D
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Narcissus nanus: John Blanchard says it is not known as a wild plant.
And my folly. At re-potting time last year I found I had loads of bulbs of Narcissus 'Gypsy Queen' that I originally got from my friend Mike Quest in 2009. So, I potted up a good number and thought they might make a reasonable pot full for the bench at the South West AGS Show (Exeter Saturday 31 March). Well, you know what thought did!, here it is today with one single flower :( I bet Mike has a real pot full!
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But a very NICE flower David. ;D From the foliage it looks as if the bulbs, even though maybe quite large and plump, were already divided under their skins, perhaps not obviously, into several smaller bulbs which wouldn't be flowering size.
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A question about Tete a Tete. I was under the impression that two or more flowers per stem were the rule, hence the name. But, of the many that were scattered around this garden by my predecessor and those that I have, reluctantly, accepted as gifts, I don't think I have seen more than a handful with more than a single flower. Is this due to the virus mentioned or less than ideal growing conditions?
Erle
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Sorry, should have read the thread "which mini daffodil" before posting.
Erle
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Narcissus alpestris MS842 first of my larger ones
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Wonderful clump.
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That is very impressive Tony.
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And my folly. At re-potting time last year I found I had loads of bulbs of Narcissus 'Gypsy Queen' that I originally got from my friend Mike Quest in 2009. So, I potted up a good number and thought they might make a reasonable pot full for the bench at the South West AGS Show (Exeter Saturday 31 March). Well, you know what thought did!, here it is today with one single flower :( I bet Mike has a real pot full!
David, may be your leafy pot makes the show visitors gain their confidence to grow narcissus in pots ;D By the way, your 'Gipsy Queen' look healty... mine (from Scamp Daff. last autumn) are totally affected by virus :'( :( >:(
Tony, amazing :o :o :o
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fantastic pot Tony,
Here in the garden a couple of plants N. pallidiflorus and N. cyclamineus x N. calcicola, a gift from Anne Wright, :-*
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thanks for the comments about my N. alpestris. It is interesting that it is so much earlier than my own collection which will be at least another two weeks before they flower.
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I just love the way it holds its head.
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Look away now, Lesley.
Narcissus 'Telemonius Plenus'
I have loads of it. It came with the garden and is a very common plant in old gardens and as a garden escape or more likely dumped.
Narcissus bulbocodium which seeds aroun gently. This clump is thriving in the crack between the tar and the kerbing at the edge of the drive.
In the greenhouse, Narcissus graellsii, the usual sized one. Note, David I have pots too with lots of leaves and few or no flowers.
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Actually Roma, now I look at yours, I'm not sure that the one across the road from us and that I was so frightened of reaching my garden, was that after all (not that I like this one much!) It was like an ordinary, large 'Kind Alfred' but with the whole trumpet filled up with "stuff" - a square foot of yellow material crumpled up hard and stuffed into the trumpet. Absolutely horrid.
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Sounds delightful Lesley!
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Lesley, telamonius plenus (syn Van Sion) is known for doing what you describe as well. The flowers are quite variable.
Just to make you wince, I saw a hybrid between it and asturiensis by a well-known Irish breeder (who shall remain nameless, but there aren't that many!) with was 10cm high with a filled-up trumpet.
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Looks like the last of the season.
Narcissus rupicola
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Narcissus bulbocodium
From a collection by Bob & Rannveig Wallis (RRW8832); Tahanout, High Atlas, Morocco.
I posted these plants on 8th March (post 337) when they were still partially in bud. I’m posting them again now that all the flowers are fully expanded. They are the most impressive bulbocodiums I grow.
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Wince Anne? Weep more like. Asturiensis is such perfection that to treat it like that is evil! Tragic anyway.
I'm doing a lot of weeping lately. Spending the rest of today quietly crying to myself having listened to yet another debacle performed to perfection by the NZ cricket team.
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Ah well, at least we'll have one of our basses back for choral evensong tomorrow, unless he spends the extra days on the golf course? ::)
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That's a lovely one Gerry. I struggle to get bulbocodiums to flower reliably, so hope that seed-grown plants will perform better under my conditions.
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Really nice Gerry, I would like to grow it!!
Here is N. willkommii, I suppose it is currently called with other names, as the diferences between the related species are very little.
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Really nice Gerry, I would like to grow it!!
Here is N. willkommii, I suppose it is currently called with other names, as the diferences between the related species are very little.
I like it too Rafa. If I get any seed I'll send you some.
N. willkommii is very attractive.
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One from Anne's List-Narcissus 'Kenellis'
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My first to flower here is Narcissus jacetanus. It had only been open a day when a bumblebee decided to make lufe easier and cut hole through the trumpet >:(
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I don't know how unusual this is but my Narcissus romieuxii 'Julia Jane' has developed a bulbil at the base of the seed pod.
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That's a new one on me Arnold.
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Me too, very weird.
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That's very interesting Arnold. I've neither seen nor read about this in Narcissus. Once, several years ago, I observed something similar (an axillary bulbil) on a fritillary (Liliaceae) but this is, perhaps, not so surprising since several lilies routinely behave in this way. It will be interesting to see how it develops when planted - my fritillary bulbil was eaten by something.
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And it should be true to name Arnold. :)
Who is the bass Anthony? It would by nice to have something good to think about any of the cricketers right now.
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His name's Michael, and he didn't show. We still had four basses, so no problem. Having to learn "new" harmonies and words to some hymns. I thought Church Hymnary 4 was bad for rewriting poetry! :(
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Wow, quite unusual for Amaryllidaceae.
I saw another plant in Amaryllidaceae the other day doing the same thing, it appeared to be a Hippeastrum species. The botanist that provided the picture had never seen anything like it either?
How strange..
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Ian has seen this formation of "stray" bullbils on several Amaryllids (and lilies, of course, but on some types not "known" for doing this).
Think it is just a one-off aberration for the most part. Fun ,though!
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Maggi, which plants has he seen this in? :o :o :o
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Josh, he can't remember exactly which plants... but Fritillarias, Narcissus and Lilium for sure.
He's muttering about whether there might be a reference in a Bulb Log... we're checking on that.
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http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2005/250505/log.html for Calochortus and Narcissus
and this for Fritillaria : http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2004/240504/log.html
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One of the smaller bulbocodiums: Narcissus bulbocodium var. tenuifolius.
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http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2005/250505/log.html for Calochortus and Narcissus
and this for Fritillaria : http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2004/240504/log.html
Interesting to see the axillary bulbils on F. aurea. My example was on F. whittallii.
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Two forms of Narcissus graellsii, both much smaller than the one I posted earlier. The one on the right is tiny.
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Narcissus bugei from the bulb sale a few years ago. I must get one chipped this year.
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It's lovely Mark. Rafa may not agree but it seems the accepted name is N. hispanicus ssp bugei.
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that's what I have it labelled as. Looking on the internet Wiki said correct name was hispanicus
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http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2005/250505/log.html for Calochortus and Narcissus
and this for Fritillaria : http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2004/240504/log.html
Calochortus species are renowned for it, some especially to such an extent that C. lilacinus (syn uniflorus) has been designated a noxious weed in NZ. Ridiculous!
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http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2005/250505/log.html for Calochortus and Narcissus
and this for Fritillaria : http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2004/240504/log.html
Maggi, thank you! I knew this happened in other plant families but I never knew about Amaryllids! So as far as you know Ian has only seen it on Narcissus? I'm thinking there must be others!
Thanks for the links, I'm going to read right after posting!
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For a change, some bigger garden Daffodils:
Eaton Song 40cm
Carib 35cm
Februaray Gold 40cm
Little Beauty 25cm
Oz 20cm
Perky 20cm
Trena 35cm
Van Sion 35cm
and Jim Lad 5cm
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Some later-flowering new hybrids. Some are cute, others BIO (botanical interest only). The last one is of some seedlings which are doing very strange things.
2104 triandrus x asturiensis 12
2811 triandrus pallidulus x jacetanus lionel bacon
2929 asturiensis x k1 C3
2940 candlepower x second fiddle C4
2953 candlepower x k1 C3
2953 candlepower x k1 C4
2990 rupicola (labelled scaberulus) x second fiddle C1_1
2991 rupicola (labelled scaberulus) x candlepower C2
2907 romieuxii rifanus
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Coming in second place and mobbed by bees- what I have as Narcissus bulbocodium x romieuxii.
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Looks like Candlepower is a good seed parent, Anne.
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Anne - All very fine but Carib and Lemon Silk. :o
johnw - temp zooming here, +17c
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Candlepower is an excellent parent, I've crossed it with a lot of partners. The garden daffodil pictures are close-ups because I rarely get more than a couple of flowers in a clump unmunched. Not sure if it is slugs, birds or what. In fact I'll go out now and have a look.
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Anne, fascinating mini daffs 8) '2104 triandrus x asturiensis 12' looks a reverse colour and I like it.
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Narcissus papyraceus from Morocco (JJA 702.720)
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Narcissus papyraceus from Morocco (JJA 702.720)
What a pretty and strong growing plant!
Tatsuo, how did you manage to keep it so stunted? Do you add artificial light?
Gerd
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My seed grown plants flowered for the first time last autumn and did the same thing. I though it was maybe a watering issue.
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Narcissus calcicola
From a collection by Mike Salmon (MS450), Portugal, Serra dos Candeeiros.
This seems not to need excessive baking to induce flowering.
The scent is delicious.
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Tatsuo, how did you manage to keep it so stunted? Do you add artificial light?
Thanks Gerd, I only keep the pot away from frost at beside south facing wall. Fortunately, my place is in 9b as USDA and I can grow African narcissus outside without any protection. Perhaps one more reason is the latitude. My place is at N34º58' and exposed strong sunlight just same as Morocco ;D
Simon, I envy you have autumn flowering papyraceus!
Gerry, a nice dwarf one :)
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Simon, I envy you have autumn flowering papyraceus!
It flowered in mid November here.
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Is that the one you gave me, Gerry? It's in flower now, and is a very good robust form, bigger than others I have. I'm very pleased with it. :)
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Yes it is Anne. I'm glad you like it.
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That is lovely Gerry.
Here's one of Brian Duncan's seedlings Narcissus asturiensis x rupicola.
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A few in flower today: Narcissus triandrus seed collected Senales (N. t. cernuus?)
Some confusing jonquilla types. The names are as I acquired them, I would love to have confirmation or otherwise of the ID.
Gerry's N. calcicola
N. fernandesii
N. henriquesii
N. wilkomii (such a lot of leaf for the tiny flowers!)
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OOps - N. wilkomii has one m. :-[
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Nice one, David, by the way. Of course I have to favour my own Jim Lad...
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A few in flower today: Narcissus triandrus seed collected Senales (N. t. cernuus?)
Some confusing jonquilla types. The names are as I acquired them, I would love to have confirmation or otherwise of the ID.
Gerry's N. calcicola
N. fernandesii
N. henriquesii
N. wilkomii (such a lot of leaf for the tiny flowers!)
Anne - if it helps, I had the N. calcicola directly from Mike Salmon a long time ago. Incidentally, your photo is much better than mine - I'll pinch it!
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I wasn't questioning the calcicola ID, Gerry, hope it didn't sound that way. It's the last three that I wonder about.
The photos below show what we were told was N. calcicola in Portugal.
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A few in flower today: ...
Wonderful plants Anne, beautifully grown (and photographed).
Fascinating to see the results of your various crosses. The asturiensis x k1 C3 is one that appeals to me especially 8)
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I wasn't questioning the calcicola ID, Gerry, hope it didn't sound that way. It's the last three that I wonder about.
The photos below show what we were told was N. calcicola in Portugal.
Don't worry Anne, I have wondered myself from time to time. but I've checked it against all the descriptions & photos I could find; it does seem to have quite large flowers. N. calcicola 'Idol' is just coming into flower for the first time & the blooms are less than half the size. I'll post a photo at some point.
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Narcissus obesus
From a Mike Salmon collection (MS451), W. Portugal.
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A nice scalloped corona on that one, Gerry.
I like that one too, Ashley.
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OOps - N. wilkomii has one m. :-[
Kew gives it as having two "L"s and two "M"s : Narcissus willkommii (Samp.) A.Fern.
...and aslo as a synonym of Narcissus jonquilla subsp. jonquilloides Baker.
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So does Blanchard.
Edit: Seems to be named after Heinrich Moritz Willkomm (1821 - 1895), a German botanist.
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A nice scalloped corona on that one, Gerry.
Anne - I've had this form for several years & this is the first time it has had this shape. Very odd.
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So does Blanchard.
Edit: Seems to be named after Heinrich Moritz Willkomm (1821 - 1895), a German botanist.
.........so Narcissus willkommii would be correct?
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Naughty Google then...I'll put the extra M back in.
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Naughty Google then...I'll put the extra M back in.
...and an extra L too, Anne :) willkommii
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Hi!
Narcissus from My garden:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-25GfiWMKZLg/T25OBZbHCaI/AAAAAAAAFsA/cVjjlIsP68Y/s640/IMG_9284.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-H-HLta4Q-tE/T25PKM1miyI/AAAAAAAAFsI/vOxgmLzRjuM/s640/IMG_9388.JPG)
Best regards! zvone
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Naughty Google then...I'll put the extra M back in.
...and an extra L too, Anne :) willkommii
:-[ ::)
A beautiful classic daffodil Zvone.
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A miniature daffodil from my garden, bred by Alec Gray in 1955: 'Mitzy' (Narcissus cyclamineus x 'Rockery White')
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A great favourite, Thomas.
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But terribly slow to increase. Just one flower, but at least three bulbs this year. So maybe next year ...
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It took many years to establish Narcissus pseudonarcissus. But now it is seeding around slowly and a great pleasure when the snowdrops between are fading away.
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Narcissus nevadensis. This one from Rannveig Wallis' List in 2008-so it's slow to bulk up!
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Narcissus nevadensis. This one from Rannveig Wallis' List in 2008-so it's slow to bulk up!
Aha! So not just slow here then! It is so reluctant to increase.
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Seed David, seed ;D
(but slow that way too to be honest)
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I find it slow to increase too, maybe 8 bulbs from the original 6 seedlings grown in 1997 but I have had a few small batches of seed over that time. After the NZAGS mid-term conference in the summer of 1995-6, Peter Erskine and others from the UK visited my little nursery on their way to Dunedin airport. Later Peter sent a parcel of seeds and they included N. nevadensis and Trillium hibbersonii among other good things. The trillium has been replaced by its own seedlings a couple of times but I'm happy that it still persists as does the Narcissus.
The most exciting plant I had in flower at the time was Gentiana amoena, which I have since lost.
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some narcissus in the garden, don't pay too much attention to the names of the photos, because with so many names dancing about, some might currently be wrongly labelled
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Our first narcissus for the year, Narcissus viridiflorus
[note to self remember to save some pollen this time!]
cheers
fermi
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I have seedlings. Six years to go. ;D
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Narcissus bulbocodium
A trade form of unknown provenance, received as N. bulbocodium var. tenuifolius, a name which Kew does not accept; they regard it as merely a form of N. bulbocodium subsp. bulbocodium.
Compare this with David’s plant of the same name, reply no. 424 above.
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Naughty Google then...I'll put the extra M back in.
...and an extra L too, Anne :) willkommii
:-[ ::)
A beautiful classic daffodil Zvone.
Thank's Anne!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ax1fZ046Wcs/T3IXaHPIKNI/AAAAAAAAFvI/43IsvL1rtac/s640/IMG_9294.JPG)
Best Regards! zvone
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Narcissus x jonquilla
Received as N. ‘April Tears’ from a well known UK supplier of wrongly named bulbs.
It is clearly a jonquil, pehaps the common & cheap cv ‘Baby Moon (N. jonquilla x N. jonquilla minor). Whatever its identity it is vigorous, floriferous & deliciously scented. About 22cm tall.
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Certainly has a look of 'Baby Moon' about it Gerry.
Possibly the last two of mine for this season, both from Anne's List:-
Narcissus 'Fairy Chimes' from 2008
N. 'Segovia' from 2011
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I'm going to have to pay you a commission, David!
Here's a not-quite-so-tiny new hybrid. I think it might be a nice one for the rock garden.
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That one is cute... short and tubby... it is singing my song!
I think the flush of colour at the end of the trumpet around the frill is very pretty. Is there just a hint of pink or apricot in there?
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Afraid so - it was a stronger shade when it first opened. It also has that nice sparkly effect on the petals.
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I like the touch of colour when it is subtle like that, just a hint of a tint around the mouth. Very smart flower, Anne.
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Narcissus calcicola ‘Idol’
A gift from Wim de Goede.
The flowers are somewhat smaller than the MS 450 form posted above - 23mm diam. as opposed to 30mm - but the scent is just as good.
This is the second time I have attempted to grow this cv. The first time it disappeared after one year; I hope these last a bit longer.
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"Hawera" A few small bulbs given to me in 2010 - didn't flower last year but seem to have settled into this pot.
I daren't plant small bulbs in my rock garden beds any more as they are grazed by mice/voles. So far this year they have had all myF. meleagris & a nicely flowering clump of Corydalis solida also Tulipa urumensis badly damaged.
Erle