Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Cultivation => Cultivation Problems => Topic started by: Philippe on July 25, 2011, 06:39:03 AM
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Hi
I am wondering what I have to do with my single seedling, which grows veeeeery slowly, but healthy as I find ( only 2 rounded leaves this year again, but of a fresh green). Therefore I suppose the soil mix should be quite convenient for it, but my question is: what kind of roots does it make? It is now planted in my multiplication bed ( not in pot), being of course still too small to be put in the garden with other bigger plants around, but if it makes roots as does the similarly looking Gentiana lutea ( thick taproot), I'm afraid it will be difficult or even dangerous to remove it from this multiplication bed in 2 or 3 years, when it will be hopely grown enough to compete with other chinese friends in the garden.
Philippe
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Philippe - I can only envy you the chance to grow this amazing plant! I've only seen pictures of it but I know seed has been occasionally available. I imagine, like Veratrum, it will be extraordinarily slow to develop initially. Wish you every success! (PS: I am told that it is possible to 'divide' Veratrum, though I would hardly dare, but even with a tap root I expect the plant could be moved with great care).
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I have divided Veratrum californicum on several occasions, they are pretty hard to get apart. All divisions have survived. It is planted in a place where it can not get too bulky. I have divided the plant in early spring, before it has begun to grow.
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Philippe - I can only envy you the chance to grow this amazing plant! I've only seen pictures of it but I know seed has been occasionally available. I imagine, like Veratrum, it will be extraordinarily slow to develop initially. Wish you every success! (PS: I am told that it is possible to 'divide' Veratrum, though I would hardly dare, but even with a tap root I expect the plant could be moved with great care).
I also divided some veratrum album for a few days. It was a "hard" work, I thought I couldn't get it, the thin roots were surprisingly quite deep in the soil. I didn't expect it, as I had choosen a little side-stem which I thought would be much easier to have. But there were both roots and earth in the end, and since then cool and rainy weather must have been benefic.
Yes the megacodon grows very very very slowly by me ( it is in its third summer now). Was wondering if it will ever leave that 2-leaves stage, but well, this year these 2 leaves are just a bit greater than last year. Encouraging!
You know, you don't imagine the strenght/length of a single 3 years old gentiana lutea seedling until you try to have it out correctly. Just surprising. Always a shock for the plant, such a treatment, but even if the taproot is broken in the lowest half, the G.lutea generaly recover slowly.
The only difference here is that I have plenty of G.lutea here and just one Megacodon ::)
Philippe
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Also some news from the Megacodon stylophorus. I planted it last year in the rock bed, it had then once again still its 2 traditionnal leaves, only a bit bigger than the year before (2011).
I saw quite fine white roots as I took it out of the propagation bed last year ( a little like those of Veratrum album for example), fortunately no taproot getting in the depth at this stage.
It seems to be happy now in the humus-peaty bed, planted on a north slope some 50 cms above a nearby passing brooklet, providing constant humidity deep in the soil
This year, Megacodon is on its 4-leaves stage, a great event! I guess it would take probably further 6/7 years to flower here if everything's ok meanwhile. The aerial growth is indeed most probably over for this season
[attachimg=1]
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I'm very relieved to see that it isn't a Dinosaur you're talking about - with a name like that it could be anything! ;) ;D
Best of luck with it; one day you'll show us the flowers no doubt - are they big bells?
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You're right, Megacodon sounds like some forgotten prehistoric animal ;D, which it should however be if it once comes to flower. Big campanula-like flowers on Gentiana lutea habit, really curious indeed!
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I have three seedlings of Megacodon stylophorum from wild collected seed from AGS, sown in December 2008. They germinated in April 2009 but progress has been painfully slow. They were still in the seed pot till this spring when I put the whole lot into a larger pot without separating them. I'd like to do it but previous failures with Gentianacae at this stage have put me off. Two of mine have four leaves but the lower leaves are very small. The roots are small and fibrous, not nearly filling the 7cm pot as you would expect from plants still in their original seed pot.
When I was working at the Cruickshank Botanic Garden we were given two Gentiana stylophorum, as it was then, by the late Bobby Masterton. It was a very long time ago, probably around 1980. One flowered in 1992 after 10 or 12 years and it was abiggr plant when we got it than mine are now. The second plant was still alive but not growing well when I retired 9 years ago. I'm not sure if it is still alive. We got plenty seed which germinated well but all died when I pricked them out :'( I hope I live long enough to see one of my seedlings flower.
Megacodon stylophorus at the Cruickshank Botanic Garden in 1992
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Thank you for the story Roma, encouraging to know it has already been successfully grown elsewhere.
As you say, the growth is very very slow! Would I have to wait perhaps 15 years here ot get flowers on it, if the plant cultivated at the Cruickshank BG needed 10/12years??? :o
I had no losses by the pricking out stage. I have a new set of seedlings which were pricked out right after sprouting last year, they have just come out again for 2 weeks. Maybe the seedlings need to be potted very soon and don't appreciate a later root disturbance.
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Here are my three seedlings now in a 9cm pot four years old from seed
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Tell me whether you seed stratification , and how to sow seeds Megacodon stylophorus ?
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You're right, Megacodon sounds like some forgotten prehistoric animal ;D, which it should however be if it once comes to flower. Big campanula-like flowers on Gentiana lutea habit, really curious indeed!
Only one letter difference between Megacodon and Megalodon! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalodon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalodon)
Maybe it should be planted in a "Prehistoric Garden"? ;D
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I know this an old topic but perhaps I should have read it before ordering my seeds from Bjornar 😳Its amazing how often this forum crops up when looking for cultural advice. Due you think I will be able to take it to the old folks home 😊
Susan
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I can switch them to Thermopsis barbata if you'd like, apparently they sometimes start flowering after just 10 years... ;)
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They can keep the magnolia company😉
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Hi Susan
Perhaps we could keep this thread going as long as a similar one on Rheum Nobile !
Did you get any guidance on seed germination on Megacodon ?
I have some of the Rheum seed as well so will be following both threads.
Rob
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I ended up just sowing them, no germination yet ;) although I notice Bjornar suggests GA3. Is it rheum Alexandre you are meaning. It is easy germinating when spring comes then grows no problem. I have had them flowering although not every one every year. If it is rheum noblis I found like everyone else it germinated then died. Good luck.
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I just notice I didn't do any update here last season. Megacodon is coming out of soil, and the new shoot is impressive this year.
As for Rheum nobile recently, the beast got some food ;)
[attachimg=1]
It measures about 10 cms.
I planted last year 4 other plants in another part of the bed, they're coming well too, but are of course much smaller.
Further 4/5 potted 2 years seedlings are waiting in the propagation area.
And a sowing pot is getting germination right now.
Enough plants to try different places.
I don't do anything special for germination. The seeds arrive during winter, and they are sown only about early May, being kept dry-refrigerated meanwhile. Most of them will sprout the following spring, but it happens sometimes that 1 or 2 seedlings appears already during the summer.
Pricking the young seedlings after germination but still at cotyledon stage seems to work good for them here. I think it's better not to wait that roots get intricated in the sowing pot if the seedlings have to be separated.
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The beast:
[attachimg=1]
Reaching nearly 40cm from one leaftip to another, still on the 6 leaves-stage though. The plant is really building up strongly. I have no idea how long it will last untill flowering. Maybe further 2/3 years ?
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Almost one year after the last Megacodon update.
The plant was not affected by last summer's heat. 8 leaves-stage this year.
Doesn't look particularly bigger on the pic in comparaison with last year's picture, but it was shot from further, as it actually now is a bit larger.
I must remember to give it some extra food nextly!
[attachimg=1]
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A real marathon effort to proceed with this plant apparently. I'll buy some seed when I reach 80 and always have a goal ahead to keep going a bit longer. ;D ;D
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Great news. Megacodon finally reached flowering size in 2017, and is presently showing its huge and curious flowers.
[attachimg=1]
THe flowers are very long lasting and of really tough consistance. The first opened up 10 days ago, and still isn't fading right now, though the weather has been mainly so warm and sunny since then.
Questionning about pollination: it seems stamens and stigma don't "ripen" at the same time. I must have a closer inspection though, as I am even not sure stamens produce pollen here.
Big question: is that plant monocarpic? I'd tend to say yes, judging by the plant appearance when flowering: it is sending all its strenght, it seems, in the very stout and thick main flowering stem. It also supports many huge flowers.
Or it may be that it will need a few years to recover from the effort before flowering again, just as Gentiana lutea does.
We'll see!
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Great news. Megacodon finally reached flowering size in 2017, and is presently showing its huge and curious flowers.
THe flowers are very long lasting and of really tough consistance. The first opened up 10 days ago, and still isn't fading right now, though the weather has been mainly so warm and sunny since then.
Questionning about pollination: it seems stamens and stigma don't "ripen" at the same time. I must have a closer inspection though, as I am even not sure stamens produce pollen here.
Big question: is that plant monocarpic? I'd tend to say yes, judging by the plant appearance when flowering: it is sending all its strenght, it seems, in the very stout and thick main flowering stem. It also supports many huge flowers.
Or it may be that it will need a few years to recover from the effort before flowering again, just as Gentiana lutea does.
We'll see!
Congratulations!
This is such an interesting looking 'Gentian' :) The rosette in your post above does look a bit like Gentiana lutea when at the same 'age'.
It is not given like being monocarpic, so I hope you'll get to enjoy it many years from now!
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Those I've seen in the wild are not monocarpic, but they do indeed seem to need a year or two to recover.
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Congratulations Philippe. A lovely plant, and excellent if you can become self-sufficient for seed 8)
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The one we flowered at the Cruickshank Garden was monocarpic but set lots of seed. I only have one plant left. It has 4 leaves and is a little bit bigger than last year . I think I should plant it out if I can find a suitable spot where I will not dig it up when it is dormant.
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I wasn't fully aware of what I was getting myself into when I ordered these, but theres no going back now.
Seeds arrived in December, were sown on 2nd of January and started appearing on 13th of April. I was so surprised that they were appearing that I went back and checked my records to make sure that I hadn't mixed up my labels, but the only other seed I planted on that day were monocots (Lilium and Arisaema), and the seedlings are unambiguously dicots.
I read Philippe's experience with interest, firstly because it was so successful, and secondly because he is living not too far away and the climate should be quite similar.Pricking the young seedlings after germination but still at cotyledon stage seems to work good for them here. I think it's better not to wait that roots get intricated in the sowing pot if the seedlings have to be separated.
Based upon this advice, I plan to prick out these seedlings in the next week.
[attach=1][attachimg=1]
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Seems that you are doing very well with the Gentianaceae this year Keith ;) :)
Good luck - I look fwd to see these seedlings growing up.
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The beautiful Megacodon flowered itself to death last year. That plant is fully monocarpic, but this had to be expected somehow. Big plants that need several years for their single rosette to reach flowering stage often behave this way. I think of the big Meconopsis of course, the Megacarpaea, probably sadly also Rheum nobile.
No sign of any life around the dead mother plant. But it fortunately set quite many seeds. Still no germination so far.
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It is not always monocarpic in the wild, there's a plant at Tianchi I've seen and collected from for at least 5 years. Removing the first flowering stem might force it into making more rosettes, much like what is recommended for big, blue Meconopsis.
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Maybe plants far away from home are not happy in the end whatever we do: not their native soil, not their native climate, not their native companions.
This Megacodon that grew during 6 years suffered a serie of too warm and dry spells during summer meanwhile. I even had to put shade on it when the leaves once began to be scortched both by sun and very dry air during the worst spells.
Perhaps the weather hazards are less or more rare in its native area, giving the plant better chances to build up stronger?
Anyway, I hope the seeds will sprout soon, so that I can try different locations for the next generation ;)
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Everything you mention of course makes sense, heat and drought in particular, it's very much an alpine growing in cool, soggy places - usually in partial shade.
That said, for your next generation, and for others who notice flowering stems developing, I'd still recommend removing it. Seeds are fairly cheap and easily available from many of the seed lists, and they keep surprisingly well for a Gentianaceae, the main issue is the incredibly long time it needs to actually produce a few flowers.