Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: David Nicholson on June 26, 2011, 08:11:40 PM
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I thought we had a similar thread somewhere on the Forum but can't find it, so Maggi if there is a thread already please do merge this.
Nurseries come and go (mainly "go" these days) and it's hard to keep up so I thought a thread might be helpul.
White Cottage Alpines in East Yorkshire: Web Site says is no longer trading.
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Hi David,
Is this the Mendle Nursery you were looking for?
http://mendlenursery.co.uk/index.html
Graham
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Yes Graham that's the one. The Link I had in my Favourites must have broken for some reason. I'll delete my reference in my original post. So it is a useful thread then ;D
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I have had good service and good plants from Mendle. I'm quite pleased they are still around.
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I don't think there was a whole thread David, so this one may be useful.
I have amended the URL in the links pages for Mendle and removed that for White Cottage.
Thanks.
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Maybe we need a thread about disappearing threads too? ;D
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Maybe we need a thread about disappearing threads too? ;D
I think we had one of those..... but we lost it...........
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::) ;D
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Maybe some would like to relocate here where we have only a herbaceous nursery and an alpine/small plant nursery. One or two going missing from England is nothing. If we lose two we have nothing. This is why when nurseries come to our shows they go home loaded and little to carry and why we love going to England/Scotland/Wales. WE dont want Aberconwy twice a year - sorry Tim and Keith - we want Edrom and or Kevock for a change!
Do I sound angry?
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But could those nurseries cope with the time and effort needed to make the trip across to the Ulster show?
There are not exactly a stream of them wanting to travel up to Aberdeen, that's for sure.
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You're probably correct
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Mark the future is the internet, you can then get plants from whom ever you want. And I am sorry to say that if the nurseries to not have a web presence, then the way things are going, eventually you will see them go out of business
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I've wondered about this for some time having run a small nursery and garden for many years. It is certainly hard work and a lot depends on stimulating the (local) interest in unusual and special plants. For a small scale enterprise mail order can be immensely time consuming and frustrating - for a real specialist it is probably easier. When we started our nursery in the 1980's there did seem to be a burgeoning interest in more unusual plants, and a lot of enthusiasm around. I hope a new group of growers may be stimulated now there has been such a decline in small specialist nurseries, partly because it is an intensely satisfying occupation and also because it is often those individuals who run nurseries who inspire the local horticultural community. I am not so convinced by the domination of the internet which doesn't necessarily encourage close links between growers and gardeners though it is a wonderful way to acquire information.
Ireland is very interesting because from the few times I visited it has a tremendous gardening tradition and really close links amongst gardeners both south and north. For us in the UK it is a great place to find new plants, or plants no longer in cultivation in the UK. The same must be even more true vice versa! A nurseryman I met near Cork, Neil Williams, used to travel widely through the UK finding new plants to take home and propagate, and there must be similar opportunities now.
Small nurseries are often by far the most interesting and the way to encourage them is to encourage more interesting and thoughtful gardening in general.
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Small nurseries are often by far the most interesting and the way to encourage them is to encourage more interesting and thoughtful gardening in general.
This is true. Whilst large nurseries and chain store garden centers have there place and can provide an excellent service, (and a slice of cake with a cuppa ::) ), there is often little variation within the type / variety of plants they sell. We are lucky that there are still a good selection of independent nurseries close to where Darren and I live. We are able to pick up the old favourites which have gone out of fashion as well as a good selection of unusual varieties.
Unfortunately smaller nurseries / garden centers often lose general trade to the larger garden centers for the sake of a tea room .......
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Unfortunately smaller nurseries / garden centers often lose general trade to the larger garden centers for the sake of a tea room .......
This is so true. A trade acquaintance of mine moved from a small, local garden centre to a large, new build centre with a cafe/restaurant. Now, most of his time is spent dealing with the cafe (it has most of the staff). He has now hired a buyer to source plants and as a consequence, we no longer supply him.
I don't know the current figure, but a few years ago most large centres only made about a quarter of their turnover from plant sales. I wouldn't be surprised if it is lower now. ::) Anyone for pet food? Scented candles? The bare truth is that hardly any garden centre could survive on plant sales alone. Horticulture, like ever other industry in the UK, is increasingly dominated by the big players and plants to them are just another commodity. Some of my customers don't care a jot about what they sell as long as they can make a pound from it. Perhaps as a consequence of this their margins on plants are, in my cynical view, ever-increasing because they expect the same margin from everything they sell. I can wholesale a plant for £1.40 and it retails in some centres for £4.95. That is outrageous. Who'd be a grower?
Will
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It's the same with everything though, isn't it. Little specialist shops selling different items and of good quality, go out of business because they are now competing in the first place with the big malls and the like, and also with the cheap and frequently nasty, barn-like places where everything stocked comes (in our case) from China and lasts 10 minutes if we're lucky. Even jewellers, or a shop where in my well-off days I bought porcelain and jade, art shops and all the rest, even shoe and clothing shops, are struggling to survive or have already gone under.
If one had a shoe shop and it had to close because it couldn't compete, it's gone forever. At least with the tiny specialist nurseries, usually run from one's home, there can be some small hope of survival as they are often run by people who have retired and may not have the need for a full, living income. Those of us who are in this group, do it for the love of plants and are thrilled to have half a dozen for sale of something rare and precious even though we won't get a fraction of its true value. Any nurseryman or woman who starts of with visions of fame and particularly fortune before his/her eyes, is very quickly disillusioned.
I would never slam the seed exchanges as I believe they are a vital part of the various societies and so many plants are not available from any other sources. I've had many such plants myself. On the other hand I can be grateful that there are still many gardeners who can't be bothered raising from seed and are still happy to buy plants from the little nurseries. In New Zealand now, we have just a single alpine nursery and I know it has worries about continuing. There are a number of other growers who sell to their local garden centres but only a very few people are in the right place at the right time to benefit from those.
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Will's comment of plants just becoming commodities sums a lot up and I think why it is so important to link together growers and gardeners in local areas because in this way self-sustaining horticultural communities develop and maintain a proper perspective on gardening. I've always felt that Don Quixote was a rather impressive character and that tilting at Windmills (ie: 'progress') is a valuable thing to do at times, especially if you feel something is very important. Small nurseries can gain great respect from gardeners in their area which in the long run means a lot more than churning out a lot of rather unnecessary stuff at the 'garden centre', even though a pretty precarious living is made by the former! The trick though is weaning gardeners off garden centres and on to searching out more specialist growers and that is a cultural change as much as anything else, and something which societies like the AGS and SRGC need to always work on.
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(snip)
If one had a shoe shop and it had to close because it couldn't compete, it's gone forever. At least with the tiny specialist nurseries, usually run from one's home, there can be some small hope of survival as they are often run by people who have retired and may not have the need for a full, living income. Those of us who are in this group, do it for the love of plants and are thrilled to have half a dozen for sale of something rare and precious even though we won't get a fraction of its true value. Any nurseryman or woman who starts of with visions of fame and particularly fortune before his/her eyes, is very quickly disillusioned.
Oh, no! My wife works part time in a shoe shop! We're doomed, I tell ye, doomed. ;D
Will
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Sorry Will, let's say instead, a firm manufacturing space station parts, with particular reference to planet Jupiter. Bet there are many of those among our Forumists. ;D
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Oh, no! My wife works part time in a shoe shop! We're doomed, I tell ye, doomed. ;D
Will
Hopefully this isn't her sole form of income, Will. ;D
And her boss would be a real heel to give her the boot! ::)
cheers
fermi
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Oh, no! My wife works part time in a shoe shop! We're doomed, I tell ye, doomed. ;D
Will
Hopefully this isn't her sole form of income, Will. ;D
And her boss would be a real heel to give her the boot! ::)
cheers
fermi
That's brilliant Fermi, ;D
Angie :)
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Oh, no! My wife works part time in a shoe shop! We're doomed, I tell ye, doomed. ;D
Will
Hopefully this isn't her sole form of income, Will. ;D
And her boss would be a real heel to give her the boot! ::)
cheers
fermi
I see you're shoeing in to this conversation Fermie ::)
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I suspect that many of the Scottish SRGC members already know. I visited Lamberton Nursery (Ron McBeath) today to find a notice in the window indicating that the nursery will close at the end of September. I had a chat with Ron and retirement is the reason. He is staying in the house and gardening for himself instead of the likes of me. It is a pity as I have had some good plants from there and some that I have never seen before. I will be visiting again before the end of September.
Lunch was in St.Abbs harbour a very nice fresh crab sandwich and then on to Edrom (10 mins from Lamberton) for more purchases.
My wife and I enjoy this round trip - but it's not quite the same now that we can't take Dexter on the beach at Coldingham. he just doesn't do well in th car now and couldn't manage the walk down to the beach let alone the walk back up.
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That's really sad about Lamberton Nursery, surely one of the most appreciated nurseries in Scotland. for alpines. I didn't realize nurserymen and women retired, I thought they just went on until they lay down among the troughs and were gently covered with falling leaves, returning earth to earth.
Sad to about Dexter. Our Cain is going the same way. When walks are called, or anything much outside now, he prefers just to lie and sleep. Still can manage to walk to the dinner bowl though.
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I guess the old saying "they died with their boots on" applied to a lot of previous nurserymen / nurserywomen; however let's applaud those who manage to reach retirement age and can afford to take it.
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Hi Rob,
you got me worried there, when I saw you had posted on thread I thought "not another one retiring" :-\
It is a shame to see nurseries closing and it most be a very difficult decision for the nursery men / women to make, but everyone is entitled to a retirement.
Running any business is time consuming and hard work. I have just started volunteering at a local nursery, that started trading this year. Having been there 1 day I have decided that there are just not enough hours in the day to get all the jobs done! It must be very difficult for individuals working on there own.
I would much rather see a nursery call it a day than see it become run down, unfortunately in our area this has happened a lot, with garden centres and nurseries.
It will be nice for the "pensioners" :-X to be able to spend their time enjoying the plants, their gardens, shows etc rather than thinking of the next job that needs doing. Hopefully they will now have the freedom to travel more freely and widely, released from the demands of looking after all the stock.
Susan x
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I suppose nursery men don't really retire. They just go to pot!
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I suppose nursery men don't really retire. They just go to pot!
I can think of one of whom this is true.
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I am not sure how many nurserymen really retire! It is such a strong vocation, growing plants, and makes so many good friends that I think the 'instinct' just keeps on going! Some of us are just more efficient than others. My personal love is being able to combine making a garden (with the seed and cutting material that this provides) with propagating and selling plants. It is something of an idealistic vision, and Susan's comment of there never being enough time in the day is certainly true. Many people also volunteer in gardens and I think it shows the importance we place in the smaller scale and a sense of integrity in an enterprise. (Actually most people I know who have 'retired' say that they have even more to do than when they were working! But perhaps there are exceptions who do learn how to live at a steadier pace).
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I suppose nursery men don't really retire. They just go to pot!
That made me laugh - i'm a third of the way there already !!!
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It looks like I'll be doing it all the wrong way round - I may well have to start a mail order nursery selling my snowdrop seedlings to fund my "retirement" unless my book sales pick up considerably (thinking of moving into publishing my books electronically for Kindle book readers, since Amazon are now selling more Kindle books than actual paper ones! Shame you can't propagate snowdrops electronically for virtual gardens!)
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You can Martin, it's called the Forum. You can only make money if you propagate virtual snowdrops and sell them on Ebay.
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Growing plants for the love of growing them is an addictive occupation and one can't just stop, to do something else. It becomes over time, a matter of mental health as much as anything else. All true plantspeople NEED to have their hands in the soil, potting mix or whatever. I remember when I first went to the UK and was away from home for about 9 weeks, I gradually became sick. Not physically ill but maybe what could be called heart sick. I didn't feel quite well, or happy or relaxed even though I was having a brilliant time with marvellous people. I had headaches and aches through my body. Though I was seeing plants every day, I wasn't working with them. The day I arrived home I walked up the front path, put my suitcase down and started to pull weeds near the front door. Within an hour I was perfectly well again and felt absolutely fine, which continued. The theraputic properties of "getting one's hands dirty" are real and for a gardener, vitally important. My nursery is in waiting at present but I'll never retire from it, or only do so in order to have more time to garden.
I know a person north of here who sold her small alpine nursery with all its stock and equipment, and within 6 months she was propagating again and starting to sell, which was very naughty of her as she had an agreement with her buyer that she would NOT sell again, in the same area. But she literally could not refrain from propagating, and once she had the plants she had to do something with them.
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You can only make money if you propagate virtual snowdrops and sell them on Ebay.
;D True dat! I'd forgotten about all those "virtual" snowdrops that were appearing for sale on ebay this year.
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I know a person north of here who sold her small alpine nursery with all its stock and equipment, and within 6 months she was propagating again and starting to sell, which was very naughty of her as she had an agreement with her buyer that she would NOT sell again, in the same area. But she literally could not refrain from propagating, and once she had the plants she had to do something with them.
A similar thing happened with a perrenial grower out of Melbourne who decided 10 years ago to retire and sell up. On the weekend we went to his place (not a million miles away from his old nursery) and he had a similar, though smaller set up to what he had before! Even at over eighty (and after triple by-pass heart surgery) he walked around with us and dug up the plants we wanted (but I had to carry the tray!) then washed them and packed them in a box for us to take home. At $6 per clump (plus a few freebies) it was a bargain! And he doesn't advertise now - it's simply word of mouth. I guess it gives him a reason to keep going.
cheers
fermi
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Since this topic is close to my heart, we are working hard to make our small nursery reappear next spring! I would like to thank the SRGC forum, and particularly those who run it, for providing a lot of the inspiration. Small specialist nurseries rely very much on the two way traffic that goes on between gardeners and growers, since most of us are both of these things at the same time! Gardeners in the South may remember the famous (to the cognescenti) Ramparts Nursery, that specialised in silver foliage plants many years ago. These plants suit our dry and warm garden well so will be amongst those we propagate.
We have a little way to go(!) as the images of the nursery show, but propagation is well underway and is a good counterweight to the heavier work!
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Tim, this is excellent news! We wish you the very best of luck.... and I am sure the Forumists will be more than delighted to become customers .... especially if you can manage mail -order! (Oh dear, that's landing you with yet more work, isn't it? ;) )
You will keep us updated with progress, won't you.... there is little so satisfying as watching other people work!! ;D ;D ;)
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.... and.... I believe you are located in Faversham Tim ?... That's within "hopping range". ! ;D ;D :D
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Supporting small nurseries, especially those specialising in alpines and small bulbs, should be (out of self interest as much as anything else) a priority of the SRGC, and it's great that small growers are allowed to be publicised in the threads.
I just went to the main SRGC site to double-check what exposure and guidance is given there re small suppliers and note that it's a case of clicking on "links" to find website addresses. I guess most people now know to look under "links" for that sort of stuff these days, but (just a suggestion) might it be a good idea to tweak the main site with a more prominent and eye-catching section on suppliers of alpine (and related) plants, especially to catch the eye of casual visitors - particularly those who have not yet caught the alpine bug, for whom one of the best things we can do is to point them with a blood great arrow towards reliable alpine nurseries, to get them interested with their first few plants and to help maintain trade to keep growers going?
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Good point, Martin and something that we have in mind when time permits.
With an interest in alpine and rock garden plants it is absolutely vital that the specialist nurseries are given what help we can to keep them afloat, after all, aprt from the Seed Exchanges, where else would we source these plants?
(As I wrote that I was thinking of the huge amount of swapping that goes on amongst Forumists! But generally speaking the nurseries are essential!! :D )
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Yes, swapping is probably a major source of new plants for more established alpine gardeners, who are also likely to know who and where the nurseries are. I suppose I was thinking mainly of newer and less experienced visitors to the website.
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But also informing more experienced alpine gardeners of new and upcoming commercial sources and guiding people towards them. I imagine the first year or two in a new nursery's existence are the hardest.
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It's just that I keep seeing references in threads on here to nurseries and growers I didn't know about, especially the more specialist ones, and keep bookmarking them to look at when time permits. But if I didn't read the forum I'd miss a lot of that useful commercial sourcing info. And I'm probably missing loads more in threads that I don't have time to read. I just thought that (and I know it'll be a lot of work) creating a good commercial sourcing resource on the main society website might be a good way of drawing new people in.
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I imagine the first year or two in a new nursery's existence are the hardest.
I don't think it gets any easier, Martin, ever.
I just thought that (and I know it'll be a lot of work) creating a good commercial sourcing resource on the main society website might be a good way of drawing new people in.
That's the crux of the matter, isn't it? Getting a volunteer to do the work....... never easy. :-X
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I do try to keep the links page from the Forum as up to date as I can..... but that's not easy, either :-\
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=links .... anyone can suggest a link for those pages, of course, in which case my task is lightened!
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I do try to keep the links page from the Forum as up to date as I can..... but that's not easy, either :-\
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=links .... anyone can suggest a link for those pages, of course, in which case my task is lightened!
Absolutely no criticism intended, Maggi (especially not on your birthday). I know how much work you put in. And it's easy to lob suggestions like this from the sidelines if I don't have to do anything about it. It was just a thought. Maybe if the nurseries links bit was just at some point made a bit more prominent, with an invite for people to send in suggestions for new links?
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Maybe if the nurseries links bit was just at some point made a bit more prominent, with an invite for people to send in suggestions for new links?
Which, between us, we just did, eh? ;D Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together?? ;D ;D ;D
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I did not know that existed. And what nurseries are we allowed to add?
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How do I found the links page from the forum homepage? I can't find it for want of trying.
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Nurseries you know give good service, value , quality plants, Neil,that sort of thing.
I haven't added some names to the list in the past because they haven't had websites and the system requires that.
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OK
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Forum links page is here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=links
There is a button to go right to it , second from the right in the row of buttons at the top of each Forum page .... the row that says
Home Help Search Profile My Messages Calendar Member Map Members Links Logout
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There really is no money to be made in specialist nurseries. Too much hard work for too little return.
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Forum links page is here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=links
There is a button to go right to it , second from the right in the row of buttons at the top of each Forum page .... the row that says
Home Help Search Profile My Messages Calendar Member Map Members Links Logout
I didn't know that was there. Never thought to click on the Links button on the forum. It looks like a much much more comprehensive list, with more detail, than the list of nurseries you get by clicking on Links on the SRGC main website page. Could that Link be set to click through to this forum list?
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There really is no money to be made in specialist nurseries. Too much hard work for too little return.
Sssssshhh! Don't tell them that! ;D
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Forum links page is here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=links
There is a button to go right to it , second from the right in the row of buttons at the top of each Forum page .... the row that says
Home Help Search Profile My Messages Calendar Member Map Members Links Logout
Thanks Maggi,
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Could that Link be set to click through to this forum list?
I expect so... if we ask Fred Admin VERY nicely!
Edit by Maggi: fred's got one there already! http://www.srgc.org.uk/links/content.php?offs=24
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Would it be a good idea to report links that no longer work? I notice that The Codonopsis Website now advertises a Villa to rent in Cyprus. Most frustrating when I wanted information on Codonopsis. :( :( :(
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Maggi - a notable omission is:
BURIED TREASURE
Rannveig Wallis, LlwynIfan, Porthyrhyd, Carmarthen, UK. SA32 8BP.
No website & no email but still worth listing.
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Would it be a good idea to report links that no longer work? I notice that The Codonopsis Website now advertises a Villa to rent in Cyprus. Most frustrating when I wanted information on Codonopsis. :( :( :(
The Codonopsis website is here:
http://www.kneebone.freeserve.co.uk/ (http://www.kneebone.freeserve.co.uk/)
I think the other address has been highjacked.
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Thanks, Diane. Have now added it to my Favourites.
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There really is no money to be made in specialist nurseries. Too much hard work for too little return.
All of us who've ever had a little nursery know that Fred, but we do it for love rather than for money. Most such nursery people I know have other work of some kind. The urge to proagate is not unlike the animal urge to mate at the right season, something you just have to do. In my opinion, and in my own case, it's a matter of maintaining mental health more than making a living.
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Would it be a good idea to report links that no longer work? I notice that The Codonopsis Website now advertises a Villa to rent in Cyprus. Most frustrating when I wanted information on Codonopsis. :( :( :(
The Codonopsis website is here:
http://www.kneebone.freeserve.co.uk/ (http://www.kneebone.freeserve.co.uk/)
I think the other address has been highjacked.
I've deleted the broken link and made a new one. I see the site seems to have been updated last in 2006.... but perhaps not much has happened in Codonopsis since then?!
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I'll ask Louise and Peter Salmond if their Hokonui Alpines nursery can be added. They do a very good seedlist nowadays including NZ natives and some very rare other stuff. And they're the only specialist nursery for alpines left in NZ, but even when there were several, theirs was best for plant quality, service and general all round specialist knowledge and friendliness.
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Nurseries you know give good service, value , quality plants, Neil,that sort of thing.
I haven't added some names to the list in the past because they haven't had websites, which is a bit of a downer for someone searching on the web..... but full postal adresses etc of those that don't have websites are acceptable. :)
Gerry Webster : Maggi - a notable omission is:
BURIED TREASURE
Rannveig Wallis, LlwynIfan, Porthyrhyd, Carmarthen, UK. SA32 8BP.
No website & no email but still worth listing.
I was mistaken, the system relies on a url to work properly so it will not be possible to list those places without a website. Now that I think about it, that's why there is no link already to the likes of Aberconwy.
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I'll ask Louise and Peter Salmond if their Hokonui Alpines nursery can be added. They do a very good seedlist nowadays including NZ natives and some very rare other stuff. And they're the only specialist nursery for alpines left, in NZ but even when there were several, this was best for plant quality, service and general all round specialist knowledge and friendliness.
I think you'll find it's already there, Lesley.... I added it myself some time ago after discussion with Louise and updated it earlier this year.
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Tim, I like your pictures very much. Your current nursery looks extremely like mine, except yours doesn't have the long grass that I have yet to deal with. Tons of other stuff to do as well. You even have the right kind of dog! ;D
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There really is no money to be made in specialist nurseries. Too much hard work for too little return.
All of us who've ever had a little nursery know that Fred, but we do it for love rather than for money. Most such nursery people I know have other work of some kind. The urge to proagate is not unlike the animal urge to mate at the right season, something you just have to do. In my opinion, and in my own case, it's a matter of maintaining mental health more than making a living.
For those of you who don't know.... Fred and his wife Monika ran Tough Alpine Nursery (Tough is a place, pronounced tooch.... with the Scots "ch" not the English!) their plants were fantastic, the took after the place name.... being very tough indeed, having grown at some 700m in a horribly cold spot in the Aberdeenshire..... they produced a large and very interesting range of plants and worked like trojans, but it wasn't enough to support their family and Fred had to return to IT stuff and close the nursery. Very sad for those of us who were so impressed with their plants and sad for the trun out of their very hard work. It just wasn't possible to sustain the business with the vagaries of the wholesale market and the whims of the garden centres.... and passing trade at 700m in Aberdeenshire is not great!
So, in this part of the world we know only too well how tough it is to run a nursery. :-X
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Thanks Maggi. I looked in the seeds part and didn't see it.
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Could that Link be set to click through to this forum list?
I expect so... if we ask Fred Admin VERY nicely!
Fred's got one there already! http://www.srgc.org.uk/links/content.php?offs=24
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Could that Link be set to click through to this forum list?
I expect so... if we ask Fred Admin VERY nicely!
Fred's got one there already! http://www.srgc.org.uk/links/content.php?offs=24
I didn't get that far. I stopped when the nurseries stopped, and this link is on later pages with other stuff.
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Although I now see there are a few more nurseries scattered through the later pages. The links section of the main website must have grown in an ad hoc manner over the years, hence its slightly jumbled structure.
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Lesley - thanks; the dog is one of the most fun bits about our garden, he is on the same mental level as I am! (so we get on very well!). I agree with you very much about working with and propagating plants having a strong positive role in what I regard as a very overactive world. For this reason I disagree about the comment that there is no money to be made by small specialist nurseries; there has been in the past; for some there is now; and it is important that the same is true in the future. As I have argued elsewhere, this is where specialist, and thoughtful, societies like the AGS and SRGC are also so important and carry so much expertise that can be passed on to younger gardeners. Idealistic maybe, but I think also realistic.
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Ian Christie's Web Site seems to have vanished?????
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The Christie's Website has been down for some time as Ian and Ann move towards retirement.
Ian may develop an new site in the future.... we'll let you know if that happens :)
**** http://www.ianchristiealpines.com/ (http://www.ianchristiealpines.com/)
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Our plans for rebuilding the nursery are quite closely linked to the local AGS Groups and the Shows held at Rainham in the Spring and Autumn. We are also going to open a group of our gardens via the NGS next spring. It seems like quite hard work, but anything worthwhile takes effort. What we don't have so effectively in the AGS is a proper balance between the 'Showing' and 'Growing' fraternities, and this makes it difficult to introduce new gardeners to these wonderful plants. The answer is to do what needs to be done until it works! So any aspiring nurserymen out there - go to it! Support will come from the people around you, whether moral or practical and difficult times can be overcome.
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The Kevock site is offline, has been for a few days.
Are they still trading?
I only discovered this week I've been within a hundred yards of them many many times ::)
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I've emailed the Rankins to ask if they know what's up with the site, Fred.
It may be there has been a technical problem. They may be away and not able to deal with that meantime. I'll let you know when I hear anything.
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Thank you Maggi
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Folks, the Kevock site was having problems, which have now been fixed: the site is working well now.
The Rankins themselves are away .... just got this report about the site from David in Nepal!
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Another one bites the dust .....
R.A Meredith have gone into liquidation. Meredith took over the old Blooms of Bressingham site near Diss in Norfolk and were wholesale alpine growers (among other things) and the plants they sold through garden centres were still branded as Blooms. 20 staff are reported to have been made redundant and several of those had worked at the site for many years. Will their knowledge and experience be lost to horticulture?
Alan Bloom and Blooms of Bressingham have given us a huge heritage of garden plants.
I realise that to many this will mean nothing: wholesale growing is hardly 'high art' in the world of alpine cultivation, but where do most people start their love affair with alpines? For many it will be by buying a few 'rockery plants' from a garden centre.
Many alpine nurseries seems to be struggling, wholesale and retail. Perhaps it's just a result of fashion. I was reading an old nursery catalogue recently and it stated something like, "alpines are second only to roses in popularity". :-\ How times change.
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Crumbs, I've been to Blooms, and Foggy Bottom several times. Is the whole thing gone, steam railways and all? Alan Bloom was an amazing character, driving that wee train on open days.
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I think Meredith only leased the nursery site and that has closed. The gardens, steam railway etc. would surely be all be separate entities. I was a student there in 1984 -85 and haven't been back since. :-[
The nursery back then was huge - it really did have a train running through it with level crossings and everything, but more for the owner's pleasure than practical nursery transport. Ah, the days when one really could make money from growing. :)
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There does seem a certain link between growing plants and a love of steam trains, as a particular Norfolk man from this forum would testify! I've come back to this topic because after a relatively mild winter, interrupted by a short very cold and snowy spell, there has been the opportunity to get on with our garden and nursery renovations, and the beautiful weather at present coincides with that wonderful time as seeds germinate and plants begin to grow away. We are progressing steadily with rebuilding the nursery, with seeds germinating and cuttings rooting and so a few examples are shown below. Much of running a specialist nursery has to do with finding and making a particular niche and the plants we have grown have always been dry loving species more suited to the south-east, and new and rarely grown plants. Inevitably these have a limited clientele and hence the importance of specialist plant societies like the AGS and SRGC which bring together gardeners who have the same fascination with the plant world. It is great reason for working hard at the local AGS events and Groups too.
So it is early days yet but we hope to really have the nursery up and running more efficiently by this time next spring, and by this time the shredder may see less action and the potting bench more! (The final picture of Eriogonum shows germination after the seed pots were placed in the fridge for 4 weeks after sowing. This allows more controlled cold treatment for certain seed when the required stratification treatment is reasonably well known, and helps when seed is available late or winter conditions are not cold enough. We are aiming to use this method more as results give us guidance).
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Tim thats a lovely fine grit could you tell me the name please?,is it just a standard grit?
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I think Meredith only leased the nursery site and that has closed. The gardens, steam railway etc. would surely be all be separate entities. I was a student there in 1984 -85 and haven't been back since. :-[
The nursery back then was huge - it really did have a train running through it with level crossings and everything, but more for the owner's pleasure than practical nursery transport. Ah, the days when one really could make money from growing. :)
Sorry to say I have only just seen this message - what was I doing I wonder? The nursery site was separate from the gardens and steam museum. Anyway as far as I know Jamie Blake is still running Bressingham Hall and the Dell Garden and Adrian Bloom is still living in Foggy Bottom. Jamie is chair of our local Plant Heritage thank goodness ;D
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Don't Wyevale operate the Garden Centre at Bressingham (in their own uninimitable style ::)
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It all looks very promising Tim !
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Seconded. It's coming along a treat Tim.
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Many thanks all - the grit is 'chick grit' from the local farm and pet suppliers. Very good for top-dressing seed pots because it is free of fines and uniform, but rather expensive for potting.
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I use that too Tim. Excellent for topping seed. Sue tells me that I can get it enriched with lime now too, so I'm off to get some for my cyclamen after the Dunblane talk!
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Thank you Tim and ChrisB i am off to get some today it just what i am after.
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Chris & Davey - you could just buy some 6mm limestone chippings from your local builders merchant. A good deal cheaper I daresay.
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Chris & Davey - you could just buy some 6mm limestone chippings from your local builders merchant. A good deal cheaper I daresay.
Gerry that's what i use at the moment but i really liked the look of that grit.
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A word - or 3 - about my experience with Blooms of Bressingham or more particularly with the late, great Alan Bloom. I met him in 1993 and I think he was about 87 then and still doing a 12 hour day in his private area and the garden around the Hall. Roger and I stayed at Bressingham Hall for 3 days, it being a B and B at the time, and immediately before we came home to NZ.
During the preceeding 6 weeks we (I) had gathered up a large collection of plants, about 500 in all from many nurseries in the UK. I had all the necessary paperwork from my end and was able to import then but that was the last opportunity as the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act and the Biosecurity Act came into being about then.
Anyway, I'd collected up all these plants and we were carting them about in a large car, when we called at Bressingham, the last stop before joining an AGS tour to Greece, led by John Richards, in July of '93. I must have been totally out of it at that stage because I have no recollection of what I had planned to do with the plants while we were in Greece for 2 weeks. By great good fortune Alan Bloom himself met us and said "you can leave them here if you like and I'll look after them." Perhaps he recognised someone who was totally besotted by plants and was prepared to rescue me on that account. They included my Weldenia and many others of like quality.
Next day R and I drove to Heathrow and to Athens where we joined the AGS tour.
We returned for our B and B at Bressingham to find that Alan himself had watered and weeded and even repotted a few things and he made available to me, all his facilities to clean the plants as I had to bare-root everything, and to pack them. Then he phoned his own contacts in the UK equivilent of MAF at Cambridge and had someone come out to inspect everything and do the phyto certificate. He absolutely refused to let me pay for any part of this whole, 3 day process. I used his buildings, his water supply, his packing materials and his time and all given freely by such a generous man. I don't know what the phyto cost. I was simply given it and told everything was fine, yet hours of work were involved in inspecting so many plants.
I did have a quick look around the garden centre but by that stage all my plant buying was well and truly done. Roger was intrigued by the railway thing, light relief for him after so many plants over a total of 9 weeks.
As well, in the entrance hall at BH, there was a huge seascape by one David James, a member of the Royal Acadamy, and dated late in the 19th century. I was excited to see this as I have one myself, inherited from my mother and grandmother. Mine is the same size and frankly, difficult to hang, in my present house, but I love it dearly. It is signed and dated 1884. I had and have never seen another by the same artist so to see Alan's was a great thrill. He said his parents had given it to him on his return many years ago, from Canada, to replace another seascape which had been destroyed in a fire.
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He was a great plantsman and a real character Lesley...and Bressingham Hall is still a B&B!
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Great story Lesley, nice to hear it here....
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Interestingly I am a believer that the time of the small specialist nursery is once again almost upon us. True it will be in a different form from those, so dearly beloved, of the past, but I am convinced that they will be as good, if not better. I'm sure there will be more than ever growers, willing to sell their passionately grown plants, and also pass on their experiences of said plants to customers across the globe. Disappearing nurseries? .. well yes in one sense, but to be replaced by more than ever... I hope so! ;D ;D ;D
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G
You at a loss for words Chris-never? ;D
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Nah, I had put two up there and it wouldn't let me delete em so I just crossed out the words. What I *meant* to say is that the chick grit is much much finer than the stuff you buy at garden centres and ideal for seeds as they can push through it easily. I found out about it on a visit with HPS to Howick a number of years ago. They, as you may know, do a lot of seed sowing, investing in expeditions as well as the owners own ones and grow loads of trees from seed. Their young arboretum is the result of that. And they use chick grit as the topping for their seed sowing. I thought, if its good enough for them, its certainly good enough for me. Got some and have never looked back. Sue just went to the same place in Alnwick and bought some and says they do it with added lime, so I'll get a bag of both next visit. Only problem is, its soooooooooooooooooo heavy to lift..... Poor Harry. Must go before he goes in for his op or I'll be lifting it myself....
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And whilst I'm in this thread, that's quite an account Lesley, what a wonderful, wonderful man he was. That doesn't happen very often I'm sure.
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I missed out on the last few entries - Lesley's account of Alan Bloom is wonderful. One of my very favourite books is his 'Plantsman's Perspective' - he strikes me as someone, like John Aspinall who founded Port Lymphe and Howlett's wildlife parks and I suppose the incredible Tim Smit with the Eden Project, as a true visionary - someone who sees way beyond the ability of most of us, and sees it through.
So it's a bit down to earth to come back to 'disappearing nurseries' again, but like Ron I think there will have to be a return to more small scale specialist growers again just for our peace of mind! Gradually the greenhouses are filling up... and the seeds germinating.
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Looks like your getting a nice set up there Tim, 8) :) :)
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Glass could do with a clean :P
Oh, it's shading :-[
All looks good. One can tell a lot about a nursery (and the nurseryman/woman) from general tidiness. Good luck!
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I hope you won't be visiting me any time soon then Will. :o ;D
I can't remember where we were discussing the AGS Online show some weeks ago but for some reason I associate it with this thread. Maybe they were running at the same time. Perhaps you could redirect this Maggi, if you think it's worth it.
During the course of the discussion, Ray Drew who was involved with the Online show, suggested that anyone who wished could get in touch with him personally and he gave his email link for this purpose. I had the impression that he didn't like that the show was being discussed at all. I did email him and wrote of my concerns, mainly to do with the inclusion of a single photo used as an entry in several classes. I wrote clearly, calmly and very politely. I have had no reply or any acknowledgment.
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Will, thank you for your kind comments. The glasshouse is tidy but it's still not so tidy outside, but getting there! Mostly my wife's work, I am busy shredding and large scale weeding, in between playing on the computer!
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Here's one that hasn't disappeared it's alive and running and has a fantastic selection of alpine plants at very competitive prices.
Owned by Dr Steve Furness:-
http://www.alpineplantcentre.co.uk/index.htm (http://www.alpineplantcentre.co.uk/index.htm)
Froggatt Road, Calver, Hope Valley, Derbyshire. S32 32D. 4 miles from Bakewell on the A625 at the junction with the B6001 (next to the Power garage). Easy to get too from most parts of Yorkshire, Lancashire and The Midlands.
I visited last Monday and spent far too much money and came home with a lovely selection of stuff many of which are destined for my troughs (when I've made them!!) I seem to remember that Dave Patterson (DaveyP) has also spoken highly of this place.
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It's always good to get the good news David, as well as - and to counteract - the bad. :)
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Folks, I've made a new thread to reflect the positive nature of Tim's reports on rebuilding the Ingram nursery in Kent:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9453.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9453.0)
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Maggi I have definitely lost the thread :)
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Thank you Maggi! I hope we are beginning to turn the corner. It has been hard work to reach this point mainly because of the competing demands of garden and nursery. The garden is a great resource, but as everyone will know also takes considerable upkeep.
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And another one's gone :'(
Scotland's largest heather grower is in administration. Over 2 million plants a year produced and now 43 staff redundant. :o
43 jobs in rural Argyll is a big hit for that area. A couple we were at college with will be looking for jobs after 30 years in horticulture.
I don't know yet, but it's likely our most important supplier will be a creditor and if they suffer because of this ....
Oh well. Saw a Cyananthus flowering today :) Anyone want to buy some plants?
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only a question - has anybody expierience with this nursery ?
EDULIS NURSERY
Ashampstead
Reading RG8 8SG
NURSERY
The Walled Garden
Bere Court Farm
Tidmarsh Lane
Pangbourne RG8 8HT
www.edulis.co.uk (http://www.edulis.co.uk)
Thank you in advance
Hans
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only a question - has anybody expierience with this nursery ?
EDULIS NURSERY
Ashampstead
Reading RG8 8SG
I have bought odd plants from them. My Gentiana tibetica came from there I think. Probably at a plant fair; I forget.
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A couple of weeks ago Graham Nicholls gave a talk to our local AGS Group and told us he has closed his nursery. He will still be growing, showing and judging and selling a few plants at shows and talks venues. Given that he specialised in North American alpines that's another important source of plants gone.