Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: mark smyth on August 10, 2007, 12:59:47 PM
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Just thought I would get this topic going now. Franz has already shown Colchicums and my first two are finished already! C. unknown and C. byzantinum 'Innocence'. More are above ground C.
cretense corsicum, C. asturiense and C. byzantinus
Colchicum byzantinum 'Innocence' - white last year
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adding C. autumnale 'Album' and C. sfikasianum
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Hi Mark!
This is very nice begining. This one is originaly from here where I live. But for my climate I have to wait
next month. We have still more then 30 C.
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If `Innocence' was white last year, presumably in the interim she has lost her innocence :) Very pretty though.
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which one Ibrahim?
Lesley what you say is true and she is now blushing. Only one in the pot was flushed pink
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Colchicum byzantinum is a native colchicum in Istanbul and the name comes from old name of Istanbul.
I hope to see wild forms next month and I'll post here. If you have any photo of the corm which shows size
and shape it could be helpful for me! Thanks...
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Ibrahim, I will ask Ian if he has pic of C. byzantinum corms to post here.added later... sorry, he has none just now. Will try to remember to take photos of these at a later date.
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here you are
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A few more Colchicums from my meadow.
Colchicum bivonae from Italy.
This variable species is widely distributed throughout southern Europe.
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Franz,
How beautiful!
Paddy
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Mark Thank you so much for pic. It looks more like a peach to me!
Franz, don't you have summer there? Here ıt was 36 c. today. I can't believe!
Thanks to all...
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Ibrahim,
Of course we have summers in Vienna, one week ago had we still 32°C.,
but after a strong rain is now pleasantly cool. (25° C.)
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And while you guys up there have your autumn Colchicum in flower, my Colchicum luteum is right on the verge of opening (probably tomorrow) here in the southern hemisphere winter. So cool to have a Colchicum flowering in winter, and it religiously does it every year..... but never multiplies! <sigh> Unfortunately it is self infertile either so it will remain alone for all eternity!! ;) Colchicum kesselringii doesn't appear to be flowering this year unfortunately, but it may still pop up. It has self-seeded before and it's seedlings are coming along each year. Quite a bit of variety in this genus which is great!!
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next summer I'll have to source Colchicum bivonae to add to the collection.
Today is a lovely sunny day after all the rain and while weeding and dead heading I notice Colchicum tesselated hybrid ex Ian Young flowering two weeks earlier than last year - 27th August
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here's a close up of the petals and a Colchicum bought as C. neapolitana
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Mark,
Please have a look to my question 'Colchicum from Morocco', dated August 5, 2007 in 'Plant Identifications and .... http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=690.0
I was told this could be Colchicum neapolitanum. My plant seems to be very close to your species. Do you agree?
Gerd Knoche, Solingen
Germany
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Mark,
do you know the parents of your hybrid?
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Franz the parents are unknown. The source was Ian Young
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Here is C. asturiensis in full flower. I cant confirm that it is as sold because it came from a Dutch supplier
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Just in from work and took these
C. agripinum
C. autumnale 'Alba Plena'
C. corsicum
C. giganteum
C. unknown tessellated hybrid
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Gerd do you want to post your unknown Colchicum here for comments? I'm not good enough to ID Colchicums without a label!
Edit by Maggi : Gerd's colchicum can be seen here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=690.0
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Maggi, Mark,
Thank you.
By means of the kind help of Thomas Huber I got the confirmation in the meantime,
my plant is Colchicum neapolitanum (Synonym C. longifolium).
Gerd
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Good to read you have a positive ID
Just look at the number of flowering stems from Ian's unknown tessellated hybrid. It's very vigerous and I'll have to seperate them next summer
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Could this be straight C. speciosum? Does anyone know the distinguising features? The few bulbs were bought at Beth Chatto's maybe 6 years ago. The label is long lost
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This is the inside of my possible C. speciosus and another unknown large flowered Colchicum.
2007 have so far been a brilliant year for my Colchicums. I suppose it's due to the great weather we had prior to them going dormant
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Here are more confusing Colchicums. Both came with the name C. tenorii but both are different. One of them may have been ex the discussion weekend last year.
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Great plants, Mark!
The following plant is from the Italian/French borderline, but I'm not sure about
its ID - maybe Colchicum alpinum:
5.9.07: A big thank you goes to Gerben who helped me to identify this plant a Colchicum longifolium!
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thanks Thomas. I dont do anything to them except plant them. They never get fed something I should do
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Here you can see some of my Colchicums.
Right to left clockwise
Tessellated hybrid
byzantinus 'Innocense'
autumnale 'Alba Plena'
? speciosus 'Atrorubens'
unknown
unknown
To the left of the red Argyranthemum are agripinum, tenorii and bought as tenorii but isnt
To the left of the Daphne with red berries is speciosus 'Album' thats above ground but not showing flowers
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Hi Mark, your tesselated hybrid ex Ian Young does look very much like C. bivonae (flower colour, white centre, flower size and tessalation). If it's a hybrid it certainly seems to have bivonae blood in it!
Colchicums here in the Netherlands are a bit later than where you live. Plants like C. autumnale 'Alboplenum' are still below ground, byzantinum, cilicicum and 'The Giant' are in flower though.
Kees Jan
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Kees Jan, we believe the tessellated hybrid to be an old form/hybrid of C. bivonae but we cannot be sure of its name though we have a suspicion of it, so we prefer to call it simply tessellated hybrid !
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Whatever it is it's great. Here it is again today with sun on it
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Marvelous clump Mark !!
Does this one grow huge leaves after flowering or is it within bounderies ??
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pass. I really cant remember because in my garden I have lots of bulb leaves in the raised beds - Galanthus, Narcissus, Tulips, Muscari and Iris - that they dont stand out.
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Luc, the tessellated hybrid does not have huge leaves... I would say middle- sized. They are quite long but fairly narrow so they need a bit off apce, but not too much :D We must have a photo somewhere of the foliage... if I find it , I will post it!
It is a lovely plant, only "fault" is that it has very little scent.
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Colchicums are scented!? Maggi are you just saying they have no scent?
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Quite a few Colchicums are sweetly scented... C. bivonae, for instance, and several of its forms... this one has little or no scent, which is why we believe it to be a hybrid and also a clue to which old form it might be.
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OK. When I go home from work I'll do a smell test with my collection
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must say hello to Jean while she's looking at the Colchcicums
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Does anyone know what way to plant Colchicums that have rhizomes?
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thanks Maggi, will have to keep an eye on Ian's next year's surplus list ;D
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Mark: sideways!
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I suppose I better redo the ones from yesterday.
What about the big ones with a tail or foot?
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tails and feet down, otherwise the blood rushes to their heads and makes them dizzy. ;D
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I checked all mine for scent. Are you sure they are scented? The only one with a smell was byzantinus 'Innocence'
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Hello experts, I bought Colchicum cupanii and Colchicum parnasicum this morning from John Fosters bulb sale, I can't find anything on Google for parnasicum, is this name correct? I would like to find a little bit more about it. :-\
Thanks in advance
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Hello experts, I bought Colchicum cupanii and Colchicum parnasicum this morning from John Fosters bulb sale, I can't find anything on Google for parnasicum, is this name correct? I would like to find a little bit more about it. :-\
The name is OK with a double s - parnassicum
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=633.0
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were there many there?
Continuing potting tonight and just in from the shed I'm not sure if Colchicums with rhizomes should be planted horizontal in the pot.
C. cupanii var pulverulentum, if named correctly, has sent rhizomes to the edge of the pot that have turned down because they have nowhere to go.
Merendera, now Colchicum?, sobolifera have risen slightly and turned straight down.
In true Ian Young stylee I have saved the contents of each pot intact for photos tomorrow
I found the first Narcissus fly grub tonight. In a hard to find Galanthus. They have good taste!
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Thank you Diane, of course I should have searched the forum first, some people never learn ::)
Mark quite a few there when I arrived and I made straight for the sales rather than look round the garden as I needed to get away quickly.
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Here is Colchicum variegatum -
flowering since a few days
Gerd
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That's a beauty Gerd.
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I'm wondering if the heat here is affecting Colchicum 'Harlekijn'. All the flowers so far are almost pure white. They should be pink with white tips
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"Hello experts, I bought Colchicum cupanii and Colchicum parnasicum this morning from John Fosters bulb sale, I can't find anything on Google for parnasicum, is this name correct? I would like to find a little bit more about it."
Colchicum parnassicum is, as far as I know, just known from Mount Parnassos and Mount Elikon in southern Greece. It is rather similar to species such as C. graecum, which it is said to replace on Parnassos and Elikon. This is a difficult group of Colchicums to identify, C. confusum (which also grows on Parnassos) and C. autumnale are, to my eyes, rather similar... According to Mountain Flora of Greece Vol. 2 it grows on stony slopes, screes stony meadows dominated by Astragalus and Daphne oleoides, between 1500 and 2300m. It flowers rather early in the wild, late July - beginning of September.
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I'm wondering if the heat here is affecting Colchicum 'Harlekijn'. All the flowers so far are almost pure white. They should be pink with white tips
So turn it upsidedown Mark :D
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Many thanks Kees Jan, that is just the sort of information I was looking for. Most helpful. ;D
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"C. cupanii var pulverulentum, if named correctly, has sent rhizomes to the edge of the pot that have turned down because they have nowhere to go."
I don't know this name. Since it has rhizomes, could it be C. psaridis? This is very similar to cupanii but differs by having stolons/ rhizomes at some stage, while cupanii has, as far as I know, always has 'normal' bulbs.
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Kees it's listed in the RHS Plant Finder so I suppose it should be right
John Lonsdale also shows it
http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/Plants_album/The%20Complete%20Collection/Colchicaceae/index.html (http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/Plants_album/The%20Complete%20Collection/Colchicaceae/index.html)
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Mark, yes I suppose you are right, var. or ssp. pulverulentum must be a proper name. You made me wonder if it wasn't C. psaridis because of the rhizomes you mentioned. Your fascinating pics under the "How to plant Colchicums with rhizomes" topic and Franz Hadacek's suggestion that your C. cupanii ssp. pulverulentum is probably Merendera sobolifera makes it all clear though. It's great to see how this forum helps us to solve such mysteries isn't it!
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Glad you liked them, Kees
My flowers of 'Harlekijn' are finally getting their colour. It' moving from the base up
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today we have about 18 degrees, yesterday it was warmer... I now find that after this dose of heat, that our Colchicum tessellated hybrids are producing more scent than they have for years! They may be closer to C. bivonae than we thought! Our suspicion was that they were a particular old hybrid that is not scented.... back to the drawing board. When I sniffed them today they were delicious... I don't remember them being so for many years... wonderful what some warmth will do. :D
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That 'Harlekijn' is great Mark.
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Yes it is Ashley. One day there will be enough to share
Maggi I sneaked home again today to smell test Colchicums. I dont detect it but will try gaian later. 22C here today
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Last November you may remember I had a white Colchicum cupanii that Henrick was first in line for a bit. Today it popped in to my head and as it's not in flower with the rest it may be among those eaten by the wood lice.
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A few more Colchicums from my meadow.
C. tenorii is a nice species from Italy with crimson colour of the stigmatic crook.
C. speciosum is a popular species native to Turkey and the Caucasus where it are flowering in meadow to thousands.
C. bivonae is a variably handsomely tessellated species.
C. bivonae and C. speciosum
Colchicum sp. and a leaf of C. speciosum.
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I love seeing the bulbs pokong up throught your meadow. What's the little Colchicum? Is the purple Colchicum
C.-bivonae-7.jpg actually that dark?
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I'm going to bore you all with mine again because they are getting better by the day.
but first of Ian's tessellated hybrid is almost over now but it had a good run. I first photographed in on August 12th 27 days ago!!
C. speciosum 'Album' is now out. It's one of my favourites due to it's purity. Some flowers have been dotted with hover/dronefly droppings
My C. tenorii is at it's peak now. And below is it beside one of Ian's tessellated hybrids
Next comes an unknown Colchicum. I'm sure there is a label among the bulbs
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autumnale 'Alba Plena' looks great wide open.
Butterflies were feeding on the Colchicums today something I havent seen before
A couple of photos of pin striped C. cupanii
and lastly the strange chameleon 'Harlekijn'
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Lovely show Mark, I like the speciosum alba in particular. Now that I have a dedicated bulb bed I shall try some Colchicums next year.
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David go to your local garden centre when Colchicum time is over, They will have flowered in their bags and you'll get them for very little. That's how I got my speciosum 'Album'
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Mark,
C.-bivonae-7.jpg - it is so dark!
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one word - wow!
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I'm wondering if my Colchicum that is labelled tenorii may be graecum or laetum? I remember having these and moving them in to the sun. Here is the group taken today from two slightly different angles
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They do appear to have the red colour on the crook of the stigma, as Franz says, though, don't they?
petals look different, but perhaps variation?
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yes but it's the length of the petals. What I will do later is pull two apart and take photos
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Older flowers - longer petals? Are they like crocus - every time they open and close the flower grows a bit longer? It might be C. laetum but looks larger than the form that I grow. Lovely to see them flowering in the sunshine!
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no the petals have always been longer
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A couple of colchicums in the garden today
The first is nicely tessellated and the second is 'Rosy Dawn'
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Rob your first one may be C. agripinum
Here is a comparison shot of my tenorii and labelled as C. tenorii
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Robs first one is C aggripinum.
Mark perhaps they are just two forms of C tenorii. I am sure that Colchicum must be variable in the wild as Crocus are. Unlike most species crocus, colchicum are often quick to increase by corm allowing individual clones to be freely distributed. Your 'true' C tenorii looks just like mine - same clone perhaps.
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Colchicum Lilac Wonder
" aggripinum
The last one is an unidentified from Greece - can anybody help?
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Colchicum "The Giant",the fist variety to flower in my garden
(http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070910/67f03fdd5440a4e3fc.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070910/67f03fdd5440a4e3fc/jpg)
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Hello and welcome back Zhirair!
Your colchicums are very late compared with mine!
When did you plant them?
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Thomas, your last one could be cupanii? It is very like my Colchicum corsicum which is flowering now in the greenhouse, along with C. atticum and C. montanum.
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Anthony, I don't think this is cupanii. Compared with this photo of
Colchicum cupanii it has a complete different flower shape:
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Hi Thomas, Anthony,
The colour of the anthers is dark in cupanii and the styles are more or less straight rather than bended (or bent?) at the top. A more obvious feature of cupanii is that it flowers with the leaves present.
The picture of the unidentified species is one of several Greek species in the complex C. graecum group. Other candidates are C. confusum, C. autumnale and probably a few others. Do you know from where it was introduced?
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Hello Thomas!
I didn't replant most of my colchicums this year, including the one posted above. I think the blooming time is normal for Armenia. My colchicums usually start blooming from the beginning of September.
I have an unknown colchicum hybrid resembling yours in the first pis. I thought that it could be autumnale, but it produces very large leaves, which are caracteristic for speciosum hybrids. Anyway, it has flowers of medium size and very floriferous. Here is what it looks like
(http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070911/f2928129a38001e993.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070911/f2928129a38001e993/jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070911/7acb50ed0a320a84cb.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070911/7acb50ed0a320a84cb/jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070911/05c0c9daf76b7b765b.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070911/05c0c9daf76b7b765b/jpg)
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Hi Kees!
Great to have a Colchicum expert here finally!
Sorry, I don't know, from where exactly the plant is, but I will try to find out and ask my friend!
Zhirair, my Colchicum autumnale have the same large leaves like speciosum, but I don't think
your unknown hybrid is one of these, both look different. To be honest: I can't help you - sorry :-\
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Googling Colchicums last night I see there are too many that look alike
'Harlekijn' would in my top five favourite Colchicums. Here it is again showing almost full colour
and a small group of perfect speciosus 'Alba' showing the lovely combination of pristine white and green stems/tubes
Most of the early ones in the garden are now almost over. It's been so good to have no rain at Colchicum time
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Mark,
Your colchicum are just superb!!! Both are great.
Here is your colchicum speciosum Album (last year photo)
(http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070911/033331bab0e9b6a778.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070911/033331bab0e9b6a778/jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070911/f30d8d6ea6f7b800c6.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070911/f30d8d6ea6f7b800c6/jpg)
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I couldnt remember who I sent them to but thought it may have been you
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I have Colchicum graecum flowering in the garden. It is a big plant with big bulbs and huge leaves.
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I should have added, that my unknown Colchicum from Greece is 10cm tall and
the leaves are around 15cm - hard to see from the photo. So it's not C. graecum.
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Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder - Mark where Harlekijn is concerned one of us needs new glasses ;) Give me a graceful goblet any time - like those delicious white C speciosum.
Oh and I forgot to mention what I think of split corona daffodils .... a purple snowdrop would be preferable ;D
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yes I agree especially, sorry Graham, pink or split corona daffs
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You LIKE that `Harlekijn' Mark? I thinks it's...never mind what I think :-X
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I suppose when the times comes that I am willing to part with a few I'll keep quiet. ;D
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I think 'Harlekijn' is more curicity, than beuaty. Any way, to my point of vew, standart-flowered cultivars look prittier than that with kind of a distorted flowers.
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Mark - re Harlekijn: Is it possibly virused?
Kees, re my unknown Colchicum: It was collected on Mt. Falakron,
and meanwhile my friend thinks it's C. autumnale, do you agree?
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Thomas looking on the internet recently for more information on 'Harlekijn' a few places said it wasnt virused. 'Jarka' has the same pinched white tip.
I'll post a photo of my autumnale when I get home today
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I have many different forms of autumnale in my garden, but none looks like this Greek one!
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mine are like a small slimmer speciosus with a tall stem compares to the flower size
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Hi Thomas,
C. autumnale occurs in northern Greece so it's a possibility. Its near relatives C. confusum, C. graecum and C. paranassicum don't grow that far north.
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Two different people asked me tonight if my Colchicums were Tulips or Cyclamen! Pah!!
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Thankfully my white cupanii is still alive. How do I increase it from one to two or more bulbs?
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Thomas these are my autumnale
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Thomas,
Just an addition: Strid (in Mountain Flora of Greece) lists Colchicum autumnale for Mt. Falakron.
Gerd
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Thankfully my white cupanii is still alive. How do I increase it from one to two or more bulbs?
You wait - and wait :(
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yeah and then it dies!
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Well of course. That's what you were waiting for :D
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Tony if this was a Crocus would you love it!
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Mark - if my crocus had twisted petals like that I would dig it up and burn it :o
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Now this is interesting: Tony doesn't likethe twisted petals on Mark's colchicum and wouldn't like it on his crocus......I'm not keen on it either BUT, I DO like some of Graham Fleming's "failed" daff hybrids with twisted petals... WHY? Odd that something one regards as a fault in one flower is found attractive in another.... well, no, not "attractice" maybe that's too strong... "acceptable" is better. I wouldn't seek twisted daffs, but do not find them so strange that I cannot tolerate them....funny old world, isn't it? Sometimes therejust isn't a clue ??? ::) :P
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Seems like I have to learn a lot about variability of Colchicum autumnale ???
Some more have appeared in my garden:
Colchicum kochii from Croatia
Colchicum troodi from Turkey
Colchicum coustrurieri
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Your C.decaisne is a delicate little beauty Thomas !
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and here is Colchicum pusillum
Gerd
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Now I do like that one Gerd. :)
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Thomas!
It seems you have nice colchicum collection too.
In my colchicum list Colchicum troodi is registered under the name of Colchicum decaisnei as a synonym.
In your pictures they are quite different. Am I wrong?
That is the list which I want to use as a main draft.
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:msIO1lrQbaYJ:journals.tubitak.gov.tr/botany/issues/bot-05-29-4/bot-29-4-8-0409-9.pdf
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Uuupsss - sorry! Of course you're right Ibrahim: troodi is a pseudonym of decaisne ::)
The plant above is in fact Colchicum coustrurieri - I have already changed the name
in my posting
Nice pusillum Gerd ;)
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Here's Colchicum 'Jarka'. Pinched petals on Colchicums must be the same as green tipped Galanthus. Both are pinched in
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OH!! And I thought Harlekjin was a one-off. :-X
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Mark the taste is different and I think they are very nice so do not let them make You think otherwise.
Joakim
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That is very true Joakim - each to their own! I still like the real goblet shaped colchicum best though. Jarka's goblet would leak at the sides ;)
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Tony since I think all of them are quite poisonous I rather use a glass my self if I would drink something ::)
Cheeres
edit: All parts of colchium, bulb et all are VERY poisonous
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Does anyone own Janis' Crocus with the purple band?Is it a normal petal?
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Geez what a wonderfull collection of Colchicum! I have googled them recently but i hav'nt found the leaves. Can someone please show me a picture of the leaves?
Thanks!
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Hi, Mike, great to have you here!
Most Colchicum leaves, from the types shown growing out of doors in these pages, have got quite large leaves, mostly plain mid to dark green. Say about 30 cms or more long and up to about 12cms wide... so you see that the leaves can be quite big and some people don't like them because of that, but it is no bigger than say, a hosta!
Must go off to work now, I'm nearly late already! Speak soon,
M
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Hello Maggi!
Thanks for your reply! The leaves are impressive then!
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I wouldnt say impressive. Most people hate them. I would liken them to Leeks Allium sp. I dont notice them because I have Galanthus, Narcissus, Iris and lots of other leaves around them
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Wow, what a collection of Colchicum pics. Some wonderful species I haven't seen before, and some lovely reminders of some of the little beauties I have in my collection as well. Thanks everyone!!
Mark,
I love the colouration of your harlequin one, but the pinched tips are a little disturbing even for me (who likes the curiousities). Your tasselated hybrid from the Youngs is just a glorious colour, and that dark #7 in someone else's posting was absolutely amazing!!
Thanks for the pics everyone. Greatly enjoying them over on this side of the world. :D
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Franz showed the wonderful purple one. Maybe we'll get a close up before they go over
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Colchicum leaves
http://www.coldclimategardening.com/images/colchicum_seed_pods.jpg (http://www.coldclimategardening.com/images/colchicum_seed_pods.jpg)
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The leaves are very nice to my eyes... I dont understand why you dont like them... The only stage that they might be a little unatractive, is when they start to fade out...
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Does anyone own Janis' Crocus with the purple band?Is it a normal petal?
Mark, do you mean the one on the front of his new book? You won't get away with comparing your horrid colchicums to that lovely crocus! :o If you look at in in the first group of photographs and then again over the page, you'll see that the markings on Crocus heufellianus are absolutely natural to that species and are always there to some degree, as bands or smudging, whether on pale or deeper purple backgrounds, the same as with different forms of C. sieberi. What makes `Carpathian Wonder' so special is the lovely marks on a WHITE ground. Alas, I don't have it, but I think Otto may be growing it in Australia.
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I like the big colchicum leaves too, especially when they're in a place with other bold-leaved plants, like hostas, as Maggi suggests, and en masse. The plain, smoothly rounded glossy greens look great e.g. with the red frilly leaves of modern heuchera hybrids. It's only when they're in a small rock garden area that they can be overwhelming and a darned nuisance. It's all in the placing.
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This is Colchicum autumnale in the wild. Photographed September 15th in the wild in NE Belgium on a steep limestone meadow (see photograph of habitat).
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This is Colchicum autumnale in the wild. Photographed September 15th in the wild in NE Belgium on a steep limestone meadow (see photograph of habitat).
That's a mountain for Belgium isn't it? No doubt Luc will now tell me that Belgium does have real mountains! ;D
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Even Essex has a higher point than Belgium (in Danbury: there's a superb pub called the Griffin n top, which was described by Walter Scott as "an old hostelry").
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David, I'm sure you know that it was a Belgian (or maybe a Dutchman) who first tried to make a mountain out of a molehill. We in NZ have to have the real thing because we have no moles. ;D
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Jindegales,
I do like colchicum leaves very much. To me they are quite nice and look beautiful in spring garden.
Here are colchicum speciosums behind the tulip 'Cairo' next to the wall. That's how they look like:
(http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070918/26c4608a18919c5d72.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070918/26c4608a18919c5d72/jpg)
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Some pics of colchicums from my garden.
here are my largest and favourite colchicums: 'The Giant' and 'Bivonae'. 'The Giant' usually reaches 30 cm in height in my garden. 'Bivonae' (25-27 cm) is slightly chequered and has kind of a pointed petals. And for comparison, colchicum speciosum (the last pic). It gets up to 18-20 cm tall
(http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070918/17782eac200b4856a7.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070918/17782eac200b4856a7/jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070918/e60c2fa0bedca3d31d.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070918/e60c2fa0bedca3d31d/jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070918/13e1d36615ffa2f72f.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070918/13e1d36615ffa2f72f/jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070918/b0e7f431be6a0ddc1a.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070918/b0e7f431be6a0ddc1a/jpg)
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And another beauty, colchicum 'Jaroslavna'
(http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070918/99e7a1b4346d264fa0.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070918/99e7a1b4346d264fa0/jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/imgs/s/070918/422936370caa175db8.jpg) (http://keep4u.ru/full/070918/422936370caa175db8/jpg)
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Colchicum 'Jaroslavna' is a handsome flower, Zhirair.
The large goblet flowers are so showy in the garden that I never mind about the leaves :) We plant them near to trees where their leaves do not fall on other plants, then there is no problem.
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Zhirair, lovely flowers but you could so easily give me another obsession ;D
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Thank you Maggy!
'Jaroslavna', indeed, has deep bright colour for colchicums and, besides, it is very floriferous and flowers for a long time.
Generally I plant my colchicums in semi-shade next to the wall (fens) and they do O.K. there and the leaves look quite nice as well in spring. But I noticed that colchicums enjoy and appriciate more sunlight and produce much more flowers if planted in sunny spot (of course not to metion rich soil)
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David,
Obsessions?! I do easily get obsessed with the showy plants. Sometimes I get carried away so deeply that I even see those plants in my dreams, not to mention thinking about them pereodically for the whole day.
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Colchicums are yet another thing I have a collection of (is there anything I don't collect??? ::)). They are so cool in that you can get the large ones like Giant, all the way down to tiny little ones like C. cupanii which has flowers 1cm or so across. And everything in between of course. Colchicum purpursascens is one of my favourite species, although I don't recall it being posted here. It is a lovely pink with a white stripe, medium sized flowers that hold up well to rain (something that so few Colchicums handle well) and a large bulb can produce more than 20 flowers. 'Princess Astrid' is one I've just had for a couple of years and it is beautifully tesselated and of a decent size, without being too large. A great genus, even if the leaves can crowd out other things at times (I've had to move a hardy geranium because each year it got flopped on by the leaves and nearly killed off.). Worth it for the flowers here in late summer/Autumn (they start from the beginning of March for us)
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Now David, Lesley and Anthony : do I spot a hint of sarcasm about our Belgian mountain ranges there ??? >:(
Don't forget the Ardennes : culminating at over 750 m... and as I mentioned in another thread, not far from where I live (West Flanders) the highest top peaks at 144 m (Kluisberg !) and it's only due to global warming (some 10.000 years ago) that the last glacier on it's slopes melted away... History doesn't mention any rising of the sea level at that time though... ;D
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Now David, Lesley and Anthony : do I spot a hint of sarcasm about our Belgian mountain ranges there ??? >:(
Don't forget the Ardennes : culminating at over 750 m... and as I mentioned in another thread, not far from where I live (West Flanders) the highest top peaks at 144 m (Kluisberg !) and it's only due to global warming (some 10.000 years ago) that the last glacier on it's slopes melted away... History doesn't mention any rising of the sea level at that time though... ;D
Us? Sarcasm? Nooooooo ;D
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Colchicum 'Waterlily' with normal and abnormal flower.
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That flower is VERY confused, Franz! We have no 'Waterlily' colchicum out yet, only 'water' waterlilies, still in flower in the pond. :)
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Would this qualify as "hose-in-hose"? Certainly interesting, despite being abnormal...
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I know it's very unlikely but could two flowers have initiated from one flower buds ie twins? Many of my autumnale 'Alba Plena' this year had normal flowers from the same bulb
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What is most interesting is that the lower flower has stamens. 'Waterlily' does not have any ordinarily.. if it were a true 'hose in hose' I would have thought that the lower flower would have simply been another, albeit perhaps, partial, double flower... that there are stamens in the lower part suggest something more complicated.
On another inspection, I believe I see stamens in the upper flower, also... very strange. Franz, might you check tomorrow to see if the 'ordinary Waterlily' flower has any stamens hidden in her petals? Since ours are not out yet, I cannot look at ours, but in previous years I recall searching to see if there were any stamens within and finding none. More than one aberration here?
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Hi Mark,
C. autumnale 'Alboplenum' has only single flowers with normal stamens in my garden this year. I planted 10 bulbs last year and seem to remember that all had double flowers in 2006 (despite being planted as autumnale album)! Good to hear you have a similar experience with this cultivar though since I was slightly concerned that I was losing my memory...! ??? ::)
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Colchicum flowering a bit patchy here - its been dry for a bit too long. Mind you last nights rain should have sorted that. Here is Colchicum laetum. This is (alledgedly) the true plant. There is something rather bigger traded cheaply under this name. You pay more bucks for the real thing! RHS Bulbs list it as a smaller version of C autumnale which fits the plant I have. I've added a pic with one flower of C tenorii for comparison. Mark had a 'mystery' plant earlier which he thought might be C laetum. What do you reckon?
BTW - have you booked yet Mark? ..... The only reason I agreed to come to Glasgow was so that I can check out all the forum regulars for real :-*
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well Tony I can say likewise for the discussion weekend - just for you! ;)
This is my C. tenorii with the very narrow petals and purple tipped styles and a comparison photo
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What is most interesting is that the lower flower has stamens. 'Waterlily' does not have any ordinarily.. if it were a true 'hose in hose' I would have thought that the lower flower would have simply been another, albeit perhaps, partial, double flower... that there are stamens in the lower part suggest something more complicated.
On another inspection, I believe I see stamens in the upper flower, also... very strange. Franz, might you check tomorrow to see if the 'ordinary Waterlily' flower has any stamens hidden in her petals? Since ours are not out yet, I cannot look at ours, but in previous years I recall searching to see if there were any stamens within and finding none. More than one aberration here?
I had a look at my waterlilies today and one flower is nearly identical to the flower in Franz' picture of an abnormal 'Waterlily'. Nearly all my waterlillies have stamens by the way...
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'Waterlily' has a reputation for falling over very quickly. Is this right?
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A week or more past a small box, honest, arrived from Leonid in Lithuania. Not knowing what I have from not I ordered Colchicum sobolifera. I must make a data base as bulbs flower in the garden or in pots. His bulbs were huge and about the size of a/my little finger. Mine shown recently are like twigs. How could he have produced such huge bulbs? I'll maybe knowck them out of their pot for a photo
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I took another photo of both tenorii today. The one with long petals has very short purple tipped styles at the base of the petals
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Maggi, I had a look at my Waterlilies today and any have stamens hidden in her petals.
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That is another clue that Stamens and pistils are modified petals! Very beautifull. I like thjat coiled appearance!
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Here is the first of my bulbs labelled Colchicum cupanii. [I now think this is pusillum[/i]]
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Very nice Anthony. I must try some next year.
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Notice that mine is nothing like that shown by Thomas.
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Thanks to you all with reports on your C. 'Waterlily'... now I must wait till ours appear to see if they have some stamens this year.
Mike, no need for anyone to worry about leaves that are too big with the little beauties like C. cupanii, eh?
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Anthony your cupanii is lacking the pin stripe veins
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my long petalled tenorii has styles that are only 5mm
Now that we have other Colchicum growers I hope someone can ID this tiny flower. The label is gone or else I forgot to label it. It may be tiny but it's perfectly formed. The stem is 3cm and the closed petals reach 5cm
oh, and the obvious thing is the yellow base to the anthers
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Perfect, isn't it? We have a couple of little colchicums which we have had for YEARS and never been able to pin down with a name... now we've given up and just treasure them for the little gems they are... but every now and then we do give it some thought. It is frustrating not to be able to ID some things, no matter what! :(
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Should it have striped petals Mark? I bought it as cupanii but it could be pusillum?
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Anthony all my cupanii have yellow throats
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There's more flowers to open this week so I'll try to take a better pic. The yellow anthers are also not like cupanii. I do have other pots of cupanii from other sources, so if it is pusillum that's a bonus. :)
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It does look very like what Otto has (in Oz) as C. pusillum. I have a little one, not flowered yet. Maybe next autumn.
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my long petalled tenorii has styles that are only 5mm
Now that we have other Colchicum growers I hope someone can ID this tiny flower. The label is gone or else I forgot to label it. It may be tiny but it's perfectly formed. The stem is 3cm and the closed petals reach 5cm
oh, and the obvious thing is the yellow base to the anthers
Given the size it could be pusillum or cretense, are the leaves very narrow Mark?? Numerous, very narrow leaves are typical of pusillum and the closely related cretense.
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Here is the first of my bulbs labelled Colchicum cupanii.
Since it has wide leaves, clearly visible at flowering time, I think cupanii is still the most likely candidate. Psaridis is very similar but has very different underground bits, which are rhizome-like. The leaves seems to be too wide for pusillum, also pusillum has more leaves. Cupanii has a very large distribution in the wild so quite a bit of variation is likely and I found some unusual forms at Delphi in southern Greece. Am I right in thinking that the anthers are not yellow in your plant and that it is just the pollen that is yellow? If I remember correctly the yellow throat or yellow base of the style is not a constant feature in Greek C. cupanii. I think the stripes in the tepals (veins) are visible, but just far less obvious than in some other cupanii pics.
Pusillum, cretense, psaridis and cupanii are all related and in the same "group", together with C. triphyllum I believe...
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A very full and welcome answer. Thanks Kees. :) I have several others, including some from Crete and some labelled Colchicum cretense. Is there a photographic (or otherwise) key available?
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Thanks Kees. I brought bulbs to the Rod Saunders lecture including the white cupanii. Someone there thought it might be something else. I'll take over all photos tomorrow
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A very full and welcome answer. Thanks Kees. :) I have several others, including some from Crete and some labelled Colchicum cretense. Is there a photographic (or otherwise) key available?
I don't know of a good key for this group of small colchicums, if there is one I would be pleased to hear! The problem with Colchicum information is that it is quite scattered in scientific publications.
Colchicum peloponnesiacum, C. stevenii and C. parlatoris are some other species in the "cupanii group" that I did not mention in my previous reply. According to Kit Tan and G. Iatrou in Endemic plants of Greece: The Peloponnese, Greuter (1967) in Candollea and Brickel (1980: Colchicum in Flora Europaea Vol.5), 1984: Fl. of Turkey Vol. 8, p329-351) discussed the status of some of those species in detail and expressed doubts about the distinctness of peloponnesiacum from C. pusillum and C. stevenii.
According to Tan and Iatrou only one of the many- and narrowleaved species (which I believe are pusillum, cretense, stevenii, parlatoris and peloponesiacum) consistently has yellow anthers. Peloponnesiacum, pusillum and cretense have anthers that vary from greyish-yellow to almost black. Stevenii has apparently yellow anthers in the Middle East, but often fuscous anthers in W. Turekey...
Leave development at flowering time is also an important diagnostic feature in this group. Peloponnesiacum, stevenii and pusillum have leaves at flowering time, while parlatoris and cretense have no leaves at flowering time except in rare cases.
Flower colour of peloponesiacum is quite distinct from other species in this group except for stevenii: both have pinkish-purple to rose-purple tepals, paler towards the base...
Cupanii and psaridis are distinct from all other species in this group by having only 2-3 leaves that are somewhat wider. To make it yet a bit more complicated though, C. coustourieri, from very small islands off the southeastern coast of Crete, is sometimes regarded as being "distinct" from C. cupanii....! According to Flowers of Crete this "allegedly differs from C. cupanii in having markedly purple-striped tepals".
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I have C. coustouriri or what I bought as it but didnt take any photos because I assumed it was another of cupanii
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Mark, you may well be right in assuming that it's just another cupanii. I had a look at a picture of a cultivated plant of C. coustourieri in Flowers of Crete but the purple stripes (veins) in the tepals of that plant don't seem to be more conspicuous than in the cupanii picture that you up-loaded above...
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OK thanks.
Here is my tiny Colchicum doing exactly what it did last year - first flower falls over as the second emerges. The second will fall when the third, just visible, opens. I know I'll forget but I need to get the paint brush out
And C. cupanii coming up through Oenothera acaulis that seeded on top.
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Gosh, I wish I could grow this outside in a trough! Maybe you have a special one - Colchicum cupanii mourinho? ;)
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All my cupanii are under glass. Here are pics of the same plant today.
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There seem to be 4 leaves visible at the base of the two central flower tubes in your last cupanii picture. That's odd, it is supposed to have 2-3... :o ::)??? Also the leaves are perhaps not quite as well developed as you would normally expect in cupanii.
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Regardless of what it is Anthony, it's an absolute stunner.
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Anthony, I really like your pea gravel top dressing
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Here are the leaves of my white cupanii and C. coustouriri
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Ah, Mark the pea gravel. That's from a tropical fish shop and probably OTT price-wise. :-\
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Here are the leaves of my white cupanii and C. coustouriri
Hi Mark,
4 leaves in that cupanii coustourieri shoot... Interesting since cupanii is supposed to have 2-3 leaves, according to the brief description I have of this species. I would be interested to hear from others if more than 3 leaves occurs more often in C. cupanii.
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some more pics of colchicums from my garden
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Just as well you included the hand in the C. umbrosum shot, or we might have missed it! Truly tiny, isn't it? Where is it from?
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All my C. cupani have 2 leaves. They have a long flowering time. First flower at the beginning of September and the last in October. The flower is very variable.
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Franz, most interesting variations in the C. cupanii, very good to see these forms together here.
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Colchicum umbrosum grow in light woodland or scrub to 1500 m in Turkey, Crimea and Caucasus. The flower is small, usually 1 – 1, 5 cm diameter, with segments 1, 5 – 2, 5 cm long, often unequal and curved inwards at the apex. The colour is pale pink or whitish. I saw it not far from Artvin (Turkey).
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very nice.
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Maggi,
Indeed, it is very tiny. It had been flowering for a week, but I noticed it just few days ago. I've never seen a colchicum smaller than this. It doesn't impress me that much (as I mosly like large ones), but it is good to have it for the collection.
It is sent to me from my Ukrainian friend, who collected it in wild from Crimea. Though is gows wild also in Armenia only in one location, but I haven't managed to collect it so far.
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Franz!
Thanks for information. Is that you mean?
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This is a lovely wee species which I have added to my wants list. I am trying to increase my collection of small colchicums, but each time I get a new one, two or three more spring up that I have never even heard of. ???
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- Colchicum pusillum and in the background C. psaridis, looking like a small form of cupanii!
- a nice clump of C. baytopiorum in a friends alpinehouse
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Ibrahim,
C. umbrosum have bulb-like tuber circa 3 cm long, 2 cm diameter, subglobose, covered by a blackish membranous scale.
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I wonder could anyone suggest a name for the following. The foliage is in a trough now (spring) but the flowers were back in the autumn, March April. It seems happy and seeds about (I just pulled out a dozen 5cms "grasses" which I then realized were in fact colchicum seedlings :'() I bought it years ago from a local nursery as C. arenarium but am unsure about this. Help please?
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Thanks Franz! So you mean mines are somethings else. I was thinking that they could be umbrosum. Because they come to me from top of mountains near Artvin.
I have no idea for Lesley. Many of them are looking same to me from pictures. I think mostly aswer is hiden under ground. I have too many things to learn about ???
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Can anybody give me a helpful advice concerning my strange-flowering colchicum?
My colchicum 'Lalac Bedder' produced kind of distorted buds and I don't know what to think of. As far as I know colchicums are virus-resistant. I suppose this must be temporary think and next year the flowers may look O.K. Does anybody experienced such kind of thing?
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some of mine did that this year also. I think it's temporary
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Thank you Mark, I was very concerned about that. I even isolated those plants from bees baring in mind that this might be infectious. Anyway, there are some new buds going to open and I hope that those one could look O.K. Let's wait.
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Zhirair,
I get distorted buds here if we get rain and then heat just as the buds emerge from the ground. I think that the rain as they emerge mean that they are "softer" and then the heat the following day burns them. The flowers then sometimes do not open properly, in some cases the tips completely brown off and the flowers stay wrapped together right at the tip. It seems to only happen with the very first flowers that emerge, so maybe the rest of the buds are then protected a little by these damaged flowers? This may not be the case with yours, but the change in conditions seems to be what does it here, so maybe there was some sort of change in conditions that caused it for you as well? Another possibility anyway.
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If this distortion is happening in more than one garden I suppose it's not likely that it's caused by a person using a weeding tool, poking the forming buds and damaging them? I do that occasionally
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from memory I think it occurs, for me anyway, with late planted bulbs or those under stress of very dry ground
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Paul,
Thank you for the comments; they do make sense and really can serve as reason for such kind of distortion. Anyway, I think my case is different. It has been not raining here since the beginning of September and besides, all the colchicums develop in the same conditions and treated the same way (I watered them when needed). Though only one bulb did this.
Mark,of course, most probably it is caused by a stress, though it is quite hard to find out the exact reasons for that. Some of my colchicums temporarily gave slightly deformed buds, but not to that extent. But it seems to be that new buds coming, are going to look better.
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Zhirair,
It's worthwhile mentioning that only some varieties seem to get the distortion I mentioned. Not sure what the key is, or whether it really is that specific in timing for bud emergence etc, but not all the Colchicums surfacing at the same time get the tip growning I outlined, just certain varieties. It isn't what you are having problems with, but I thought I would mention it for others who are reading.
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This wee Colchicum pusillum from Crete is just opening. The flower L-R is open 6mm.
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My colchicum 'Lilac Bedder' finally produced normal flower. All the new buds to be bloomed also look O.K. I think I found out the exact reason of destorted flowers. It's beacause I planted the bulbs under rain in very wet soil. When I dug out a bit of soil near this plant, it was not smooth and so the bulbs were getting destorted when coming out of the ground.
Some pics of my colchicums
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I bought three different colchicums this year: cilicicum 'Purpureum', byzantinum and bornmuelleri. And I put labels in the ground as usual. This one is growing slightly apart, but still, it might be bornmuelleri. Is it? And how to differentiate between bornmuelleri and 'The Giant'?
Regards, Barbara.
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I think that might be Colchicum hosteri variegatum? ;)
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Here's some more pics of my Cc. pusillum and cupanii.
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basia_k
Your colchicum is "The Giant". The white base in c. bornmuelleri has a different shape.
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Another pic of my Colchicum pusillum and another form?
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Here are my first colchicum pictures from wild for this season. This is that you call C. byzantinum. But in my flora this is synonymous of C. cilicicum. I have seen them in very low altitute with big quantity in meadow. Colored from light pink to violet.
And the corm also looks like Mark's C. byzantinum.
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Ibrahim,
your pictures are just wonderful! Waht a nice view! Thanks a lot for posting them.
Actually those two species are quite similar only with slightest not very obvious differences. It is stated that colchicum cilicium is somewhat larger in sizes. Besides, they are quite variable.
Here is a pic of my colchicum byzantinum (pale pink form) blooming presently in my garden
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Colchicum 'Neptun'
It has normal sizes, acumulated flowers, petals pointed at the tips
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Colchicum giganteum - a real giant among colchicums. This year it grew up to 35 cm tall. It somewhat resembles the variety "The Giant', but, in difference to it has, slight tessalation, orange anthers and I would say larger sizes.
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This is a poor photo to show a new species of Colchicum. I took this in poor light so will get a better shot on Friday.
C. davisii
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Here are two plants that definitely fit the descriptions: Colchicum pusillum and C. cupanii. I think my narrow leaved 'cupanii' (see above) is mislabelled and should be pusillum [see http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=706.msg19084#msg19084]. My two pots of cupanii from different sources have broad (~1 cm wide) leaves in pairs, whereas my pusillum has narrow (< 0.5 cm wide) leaves and 4/5 of them. Both species have the flowers appearing either after or with the leaves.
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My cupanii have between two and four leaves. When I go down, only up ::), I'll see how many leaves are on my pusillum
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most have four but some have five grass-like leaves
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Anthony,
Here are my C. cupani and C. pusillum.
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"Pusillus" means very little in Latin. Your flowers are very big compared to those I have. Mark, grass-like leaves would indicate pusillum. All the cupanii I have seen have the flowers appearing in a "tube" formed by two leaves, with an occasional third leaf present, especially in non-flowering bulbs. The leaves are at least a centimetre wide.
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Anthony, I think you would be better to say" Pusillus means very small in Latin", otherwise what you say you might mean very little ::)
Anyway, why are you not watching the Rugby... your countrymen might be winning ! :o
Oh, well, it seems The English Team were defeated by the gallant South Africans. Bad luck, chaps and congratulations to the Springboks! The celebratory drinks and cakes will be on Rogan Roth, I hope!
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Here is Colchicum cupanii var bertolinii - as raised from seed supplied by Monocot Mike Salmon. It is similar to the 'Crete Form' that I grow in the garden but a little stronger in its pink colour. I cannot find any references to var bertolinii.
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Sorry Maggi, should have put quotation marks round "very little" as it was a direct quote from Chambers Murray Latin-English dictionary. :-[ Tony, your cupanii has very pretty flowers, and note the "tube" formed by the two leaves.
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Heartiest congratulations to South Africa....you were the best (but not necessarily the most attractive) team in the competition.
The Pumas gained that honour. England showed guts and team spirit. Argentina had the flair. France had the satisfaction of staging a magnificent tournament. Lesley, of course, won the lineout.
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I quite enjpyed seeing the large "New Zealand 2011" spread out on the ground at the end of the affair. Now, if only Auckland City Council would get its act together and stop refusing to pay for stadium upgrades etc, there may be some possibility of the Cup actually taking place here, in 2011.
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I wish to present a cople of pics. of a different colchicum. You might not seen before in srgc forum. This is realy a rare species. It has one or rarely two small pale pink flowers per corm.
The corm also is very small like half part of hazelnut with light brown membranous tunic.
C. micranthum.
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This C. micranthum is interesting... the style is very widely flared, isn't it? How many leaves does it have?
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Maggi!
It has no leaves at the moment. The rest I can tell in spring.
That I can say it looks smaller than crocuses.
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Sorry, Ibrahim, I assumed you had already seen the leaves in a previous year! I will wait patiently!
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A nice small Colchicum Ibrahim, I am happy that I can see it. Thanks
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does anyone have a good contact that could turn our light levels up a bit? Most annoying when trying to take photos of flowers before they go over
These are the best I can do for Colchicum sanguicolle. I wasnt planning to buy from a certain UK based supplier but got sucked in my this Colchicum
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Nice red collar Mark (I think the name means 'blood-stained neck').
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Like when your throat's cut? ;D
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Here is Colchicum cupanii var bertolinii - as raised from seed supplied by Monocot Mike Salmon. It is similar to the 'Crete Form' that I grow in the garden but a little stronger in its pink colour. I cannot find any references to var bertolinii.
That's stunning Tony. Should you ever have seed to spare I'd love to try it.
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Anthony do you know Latin or do you have a good reference book?
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Taken with my 5+ year old Nikon Coolpix 5000 is a better photo of Colchicum sanguicolle
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Bit of both Mark. Is this (potentially) a large plant?
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Anthony it's a large bulb with a short single flower so far
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The measurement are 8cm high and 6cm across when open
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The red membranous sheath (or cataphyll) makes C. sanguicolle one of the few Colchicum species that is easy to identify. I very recently photographed this species in SW Turkey, where it locally grows in very large numbers. I only found sanguicolle above +-1200 m, it is not bothered by (over)grazing as it was particularly plentiful in a couple of overgrazed locations (I think all Colchicums are poisonous). I saw this Colchicum at different locations with different crocuses: mathewii, palasii ssp. palasii and cancellatus ssp. lycius.
In the wild C. sanguicolle is variable in flower shape and size. It is superficially similar to C. cilicicum, but the red bits make it distinct and I think cilicicum is somewhat tesselated. In the Flora of Turkey at least one boissieri location in SW Turkey is listed that seems to be sanguicolle. Sanguicolle seems to be a species that was described after the publication of the Flora of Turkey, I suppose C. cilicicum is absent from sw Turkey (?). The very long style is a feature of both sanguicolle and cilicicum.
I will post some pictures of wild C. sanguicolle populations later, but this will take a couple of weeks.
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Thank you all for so many wonderful pics and info!
We still have a few (but only a few, alas) wild colchicum autumnale (I think!) in some grassy, still preserved clearings in the woods around my place.
In my fairly wet garden, most colchicum become floppy as soon as they open.
The one that behaves best is C. autumnale 'Nancy Lindsay' :
(http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/colchicumnancylindsay160907.jpg) (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/colchicumnancylindsay160907.php).(http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/colchicumnancylindsay170907.jpg) (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/colchicumnancylindsay170907.php)
Following a friend's advice, this year I tried to grow the double 'waterlily' through a carpet of dark purple ajuga ('Black Stallion' in this case). It did work pretty well, the slender stems were held by the ajuga foliage and the contrast was eye candy:
(http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/colchicumwaterlily23090703.jpg) (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/colchicumwaterlily23090703.php)
I also tried C. cilicicum, but it is generally a complete mess before long. I'll have to find another good companion for it, I guess...
(http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/colchicumcilicicum160907.jpg) (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/colchicumcilicicum160907.php)
Zephirine
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Here are a few colchicum photos I was thinking to see much more.
It seems late for some colchicum here.
C. baytopiorum 04.11
C. stevenii 04.11
C. stevenii ngbb 04.11
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I have two more photos one was without ssp. And the other one with the name Colchicum lycium which I have never heard before.
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Following a friend's advice, this year I tried to grow the double 'waterlily' through a carpet of dark purple ajuga ('Black Stallion' in this case). It did work pretty well, the slender stems were held by the ajuga foliage and the contrast was eye candy:
Zephirine
I like the results of this - something to try for next year I think for the double white one I've got which flops a bit - thanks
Sue
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I have two more photos one was without ssp. And the other one with the name C. lycium which I have never heard before.
I do like these, for two reasons: they are small and much darker than anything I have that size. Will you have seed of these in the spring Ibrahim?
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I'm glad you decided to try, Sue! Aren't forums meant for that? Sharing (sowing? ;) ) good ideas?
Look..the original idea came for me from a german lady-friend in Berlin, who had initially learnt it from an american fantastic gardener in Michigan...a tour in France, and hop! The idea-seed is now landing in Northumberland! ;D
Zeph
PS : I interplanted the colchicums with muscari 'Valerie Finnis', the sky blue one, which is a lovely sight against the dark purple ajuga in early spring too, before the darker blue flowers of the ajuga bloom themselves!
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Zephirine and Sue, I really like that idea too, planting a "naked" bulb, the colchicum, to come through a neat mat of a colour which contasts with, but also enhances it. I'll try it as well so there you are, the idea has now travelled to the lower South Pacific!
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So does the Ajuga not suffer from being covered by the Colchicum leaves? That is what would worry me.
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Anthony I have seen these colchicum in a private garden with private permission. I also wish to optain them. They were realy dark form which I have not seen before. I hope to find a way.
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Here a lovely Colchicum cupanii AH9707 ex Paul Christian ex Hoog collection. Also the mess it looked last year
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So does the Ajuga not suffer from being covered by the Colchicum leaves?
That is what would worry me.
What about the mushy mess of the dead flowers ?
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photographed on January 28th this year and flowering already with the first flower over is Colchicum cretence. Twice in one year!
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Can't see it Mark? Colchicum cretense is an autumn flowerer, but the one I have labelled as such has no flowers this year.
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White flowers in C. cupanii seem to be somewhat common in SE Peloponnese. I found quite a few... Here is an example.
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As promised earlier, C. sanguicolle in the wild in SW Turkey. Many plants in this population!
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Kees how often do you visit?
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Whenever I have a good opportunity... Slightly embarassed to have done two trips last autumn :-[ ::) :). Not been away in summer though... :( >:( ! To be honest, I feel somewhat priviliged to have the opportunity to see such wonderful plants in the wild. Here is another example... C. stevenii, one of the species in the cupanii group, quite variable in the wild as far as tepal shape is concerned.
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I learned something new about Colchicums. A friend sent me the attached drawing from an old book by Bowles... Colchicums have a superior ovary. I was convinced the ovary in Colchicum was inferior untill today ??? ::).
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Super photos, Kees Jan, really showing how handsome these flowers are. The white C. cupanii is a beauty, so clear a white against the bright green of the leaves. It seems a robust form, also.
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Hello to Everybody!
Here, in Hungary is native the Colchicum arenarium. Do you know it? Sincerelly I have never seen it in the wild, but since september I have one single corm in a pot, purchased from an old lady. I am awfully sorry, that I haven't take a picture of him. He had two flowers. I am going to follow Ian's advice regarding the feeding, and I hope we will see his flowers next year. I have a picture of this species hunted from a hungarian vebsite. But I don't know how to insert it here. Please help me anybody!
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Kathrine, I have sent you a personal message to help with loading photos!
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Thank you Maggi.
So, here it is the Colchicum arenarium:
[attachthumb=1]2_017a.jpg
[attachthumb=2]Colchicum.arenarium.1.jpg
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Beautiful pics folks. So good to see these in their natural habitats. I think these dark colchicums are very special.
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The rare C. psaridis (one of the species related to cupanii) in southern Peloponnesos...
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Kees,
Great to see pics of them in the wild. Lovely dark flowers on some of the species you're showing too..... very nice!!
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Super pics everyone. I particularly like the C sanguicole. I too remember this in large numbers in Antalya region last year. I entirely concur with Kees Jan when he says that with the exception of C sanguicole, the rest are difficult to identify. I have just returned from a colchicum 'fest' on a visit to the area around Adana, Gaziantep and Antakya - a mere 9 species in flower. Will post some pics over the next few days or so, but since C cilicicum has already been mentioned, I'll start with this robust and plentiful species from a locality in the eastern Taurus, north of Adana.
Dave
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I was quite surprised by the variation in tepal shape, if not by the colour variation. Note, as stated by Kees Jan, this is one of the tessalated species. here are a few more pics from this population.
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Dave,
I love htat strong pink one with the white stripe (third last pic). Reminds me a bit of C. purpurascens, although that is nowhere near as strong a colour.
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Does anybody know please, which Colchicum is this from the Velebit mountains, Croatia?????
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I think the first one is probably a form of C. bivonae. Is the second one just a white form of the same species? It seems to be somewhat different and has yellow stamens.
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Next installment: firstly Colchicum kotschyii - we only saw this plant, growing with rather more common C. polyphyllum and wondered if this really is C kotschyii or just a white form of the the other rather more common species. However, the texture of the tepals and other characteristics of the stamens and style convinced us of its true identity.
The second is the rather beautiful dryland species C persicum. The border area with Syria, south of Gaziantep is at the limit of the distribution of this species. We found this in flower in recently ploughed fields. The area is remarkably dry and prior to our visit there had been no autumn rains. There were no roots on the plant examined. The soil was a clay rich brown earth developed on basalt.
Dave
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.... and a few pix of Colchicum decaisnei from the Eastern Taurus mountains, north of Adana. We also saw this south of Antakya in Hatay province.
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I particularly like the Colchicum decaisnei with it's more spidery flowers. All very nice pics!!
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Thanks to everbody for nice pics.
Dave! wonderfull pics from best corner of country. East Taurus and Amanos mauntains (Antakya) very rich in plants. I think there sould be some more colchicum in the area which I have never seen before even any photos for identify. For example C. crocifolium, C. minutum, C. polyphyllum, C. dolichantherum. (except crocus)These should be also in the same area. Do you have anything about them?
For me also the best one is the dark cilicicum.
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Thanks, Ibrahim. Indeed a fabulous trip - one that I shall remember for a long while. For me the whole range of cilicicum colours were the best. We did see other species, including some of those you mention and I will post pictures for you. It's actually quite difficult (and frustrating, without a copy of the flora) to get good reliable information about many of these species - and there seems to be much confusion over naming with some. For example, you mention C minutum, which one of my books lumps with C psaridis (which Kees Jan showed from Greece if I recall correctly). However, the Greek psaridis is autumn flowering, but one source I have says minutum is spring flowering! ??? ??? ??? C crocifolium is listed by this same source as a synonym for C kesselringii, which I thought was a central Asian species and spring flowering -- double, even triple confusing........
We didn't see dolichantherum - but I recall seeing this from the western Taurus last year.
One unexpected find was C boissieri (pic below), a stoloniferous species that is also common to the Western Taurus. Fortunately, there is one record (Baytop 1990) from the pass between Findikpinar and Arslankoy, in Eastern Tuarus, the identical spot to our find.
The other pics in this post are of the rare C davisii, from the Gaziantep area.
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And here are some pix of Colchicum polyphyllum ......
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Thanks for sharing these pics Dave.
C. psaridis was included in the Flora of Turkey (1984) but is know regarded as being only found on the Mani Peninsula in S Peloponnese, Greece. The Turkish records should be regarded as C. minutum K.M.Pers. (Karin Persson, 2001, supplement 2 of the Flora of Turkey and the East Aegean Islands).
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Wonderful photos from the wild, David, Kees and Kathrine!
Here a photo of Dominique's garden which made me astonished:
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wow!
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Mark,
My sentiments exactly!! Impressive!! :o
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:o :o :o
Gorgeous !!!
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Very attractive setting. Several gardens around Stirling have areas of garden centre colchicums planted in this way, mostly in gravel areas with no other plants apart from the odd bush. Unless you really have a lot of space, it is not economical to do this in a suburban garden.
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C. variegatum in SW Turkey. Stunning, isn't it? :P :)
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Absolutely stunning. 8)
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I wont get another chance to photograph my Colchicum cretense so here it is going over :'(
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Fine little bulb ! Mine is pink. Other Colchicum of late season :
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Colchicum byzantinum was earlier flowering but forget to be all in white !
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Last pic, but what is this species ? I don't know and I have lost it when I changed of address.
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It seems to be one of the species in the cupanii group, although most (but not all) have leaves present when in flower. Could it be C. cretense?
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Hi Kees Yan
Thank you. It is possible th
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What's going on with this Colchicum/Merendera
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here are two that shouldnt be flowering now
the white form of kesselringii and triphyllum. The latter looks more like trigynum
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Mark
How early are they at your home ! Mine are always underground ! Is it the Gulf Stream which give you such a soft climate ? !!! nice Merendera
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Mark your temperature is running out..
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Perhaps my last autumn Colchicum, Colchicum boissieri
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My Colchicum cupanii AH9707 has been flowering now for 5 weeks. Again, very boring I apologise, Nikon v Canon
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Just loving these pix, and the Crocus etc, too, Mark. Having trouble deciding which camera I prefer the shots with at the moment... ??? ???
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Mark,
which camera do you think gives you the "better" image, i.e. the more natural looking?
I like the way you are showing us the differences - not boring at all.
cheers
fermi
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It's not even a fair comparison, unless you can be sure that each camera's settings are identical. I maintain that it's more the photographer than the camera. Furthermore, (since we are assuming that the images are untouched by Photoshop or pre-photoshop software) they can probably be made to look identical even if different at first blush...
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definitely the first picture that does it for me. Which Nikon is it Mark?
John
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I would rather have the Nikon CoolPix 5000. It gives more life to photos. The photos are edited down to 700 pixels using Photo Shop but nothing else is done to them. The photos were taken seconds apart is full sun.
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Colchicums have a superior ovary. I was convinced the ovary in Colchicum was inferior untill today
Going back through the Colchicum pages this morning I now have a question. What is the difference between a superior and inferior ovary?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovary_(plants)
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Thanks. So from Wikipedia ...
A superior ovary is attached to the receptacle above the attachment of other floral parts - berries
An inferior ovary lies below the attachment of other floral parts - Fuschia
A half-inferior ovary is embedded or surrounded by the receptacle
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What is the difference between a superior and inferior ovary?
Sorry can't get the Wikipedia link to work ..
A superior ovary is above the flower parts (petals, sepals) and inferior is below these. Many monocots (Liliaceae, Iridaceae), have superior ovaries, the exception is the family Amaryllidaceae (narcissus, galanthus, etc) which have inferior ovaries. Colchicums used to be in Liliaceae until the big split of the genus (giving them their own family Colchicaceae) so they do have superior ovaries, not easy to spot as they are underground.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovary_%28plants%29
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The Nikon, in Mark's two colchicum photographs earlier, seems to have focused better - presuming auto focus here - and also seems to have a better depth of field and contrast.
Paddy
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Here are some colchicums that I have photographed earlier (October-November) in the botanical garden of Lund University. More about that garden will come later in this thread. http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1068.0
The light conditions were not good and many or most of the flowers were on the ground rather than up right.
I hope that You can identify them and that I have no crocus amongst them :-[. It would be slightly embarising. They are all around a small pond in the garden so that kids and students should not pick them ::).
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More pics but this time not from the pond area but the two first in the lawn the third and fourth in a bed and the rest from a raised bed in area with mixed sun and shade. I think these later have only been there a year or two while the others are well established.
The first two might be crocus :-[ :-[ :-[
I have some ideas of what it can be but do not want to mislead You so I hope You can identify them all many are the same.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Here is a colchicum that I bought on a plant sale in the botanical garden. It was not the garden selling.
It was a good price for a pot of them 10SEK =1€ so I bought the last two. There were 4 when I came but since they can be expensive I did not dare asking. When coming back I saw someone buying them and a few other things and not paying much so I asked the price and bought the only two she had left. Thaat is why I only got two. ;D :-\.
Here are the pics. I do not remember the flower to be so big compared to my hand so it might be a little effect of them being closer than my hand, but not a huge difference to the reality.
Kind regards
Joakim
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I have done some guessing of my own for the ones in the garden bed using the website of where they probally got the bulbs from.
On some of the sorts it is easier than others but I am not to any one answers yet.
The double one is either "Waterlily" or Autumnale pleniflorum. It seems to be more lilac than pink so I presume it is Waterlily.
The white one is either autumnale album or speciosum "album"
And on 13 14 I presume it is autumnale as they have stated.
The rest I do not know.
Hope there is more knowledged people that could narrow it down a bit.
Kind regards
Joakim
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This one slipped past me. I would say
18 Waterlily
19 autumnale white form
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Then we have 3 out of 20 identified and only lack the others ??? ;D Is there any more help to be found here?
Kind regards
Joakim
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New to me last year but only flowering this year is Colchicum asteranthum
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11 and 12 are Crocus pulchellus - assuming 11 is close-up of 12
1 2 and 8 are Colchicum aggripinum
3 4 9 10 and 19 all look like Colchicum autumnale album
16 could be the trade form of Colchicum laetum (not true to the species)
Merry Christmas!!
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Nice picture Mark 8)
Tony thanks for the identification 8) :o Very well done ;D Just a question if it is possible to identify the unknown I bought?
A very merry Christmas to all of You
Joakim
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Some shots taken on Ibiza on 16 October 2007
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Frazer,
I am thinking it is Colchicum montanum ( Merendera montana).
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On Ibiza it would be Colchicum filifolium [aka Merendera filifolia].
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My name was wrong , I think the name of Anthony is correct
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new year greetings from the glass house: small size, but unique colouration.......
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Mine are also flowering. I like the colour. I have many small species flowering just now but the weather has been very bad for photography. The coming snow will ruin them. Let's hope it stops in Scotland LOL