Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Guff on February 02, 2011, 06:17:12 AM
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Picked up the book Bulbs Of North America, is there any other books that have info about Erythronium? The book says Americanum can have purple anthers, anyone have one?
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Guff,
Can't help you with the americanum, but I've had the book for a few years now. Some fascinating stuff in there, that is for sure.
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Guff, we have americanum with yellow anthers, brown anthers and dark maroony-pruple anthers... only colours we haven't seen is really pale yellow/cream/white.
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Guff, Ian's bulb log could be a good substitute for an Erythronium book.
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Maggi, happen to have a picture of the purple anther?
Yes, Ian's bulb logs are good reading. I was given some seeds from a member this past fall, been reading all I can.
All I have seen here is the brown anther. Picture I never posted for some reason.
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Would be very pleased for some bulb of 'Jeanette Brickell'. Lost mine several years ago. Can someone help me?
Janis
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Maggi, happen to have a picture of the purple anther?
All I have seen here is the brown anther. Picture I never posted for some reason.
I'll ask Ian to search his pictures tomorrow, Guff.
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Janis this site has it for sale.
http://rvroger.co.uk/index.php?linksource=stockgroup&listgroupfile=bulbs&new=%§ionname=%&parentpagefile=latesummerbulbs&webpage=erythronium&divisionsortorder=%&suggest=%&season=BLSU&page=2&caller=Header
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Finally got Ian to find this picture for us..... here you can see the purple-wine type colour of these anthers, before they dehisce...... we think they are lovely.
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"lovely" is an understatement Maggi ! Gorgeous seems more appropriate... :o ;D ;)
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Great combination of colours. I've always admired the pics of E. umbilicatum as well, with the bright yellow petals with red reverse. I think it must make a colour statement in the flesh as well.
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It's 2011 folks!!
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Thanks David.... seems we are trying hard to live in the past :-X
Have moved to new thread now :D
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Picked up the book Bulbs Of North America, is there any other books that have info about Erythronium? The book says Americanum can have purple anthers, anyone have one?
At present I don't know, but Art Guppy from USA is working on such (I think).
Janis
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Yes, a book devoted to Erythronium would be very welcome.
Art (who lives about 50 km from me, in Canada) would be a good author.
He has grown and studied them for many years, and has written articles.
One has to convince a publisher that the subject has wide interest. Timber
Press rejected a book on Pacific Coast iris and that was the reason - they
considered the topic of limited interest.
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Maggi thanks for posting the picture. I will take a close look when mine flower and see if any are different colors.
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Here is a little something special for all of us Erythronium lovers. Take a look at this youtube video of Erythronium japonicums. :o :o :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKh7MVmlMxA&feature=channel
Johan
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Thank you.
I watched that, which shows close-ups of the flowers.
Then I watched some of the others that are listed over on the right.
Some just included one or two photos of an erythronium, along with
other pictures.
This one shows a woodland with hundreds of E. japonicum. No close-ups.
http://www.youtube.com/user/yaoshumaan#p/a/f/0/HlkqM6zvccg
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Checked the bed that I had made for Erythronium seeds, I see some are germinating. I have the bed covered with a layer of pine needles, should I remove them now or wait another week or two?
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This is the very first time I've managed to flower my Erythronium dens canis in a pot, and its thanks to Ian's sage advice about planting it at the bottom of its long tom pot. Trouble is, its coming into bloom now and the Hexham Show isn't until a week Saturday. Such a shame.....
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Well done Christine.... and don't despair about the Hexham show... keep the pot cool and the flowers could well be in good enough order to exhibit. :)
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Thanks Maggi. I've got it against a north facing brick wall in my cold frame and am turning it daily. Its not a big plant, but I'm still exhibiting in section 3, so thought it might stand a chance there. I just know it will never look as great as it does right now again, I'm amazed I've got any flowers on it at all, but there are just a nice balance for the amount of foliage. Not sure whether to just feed it this year or repot again. I put it in this much larger pot last year, and it seems to like this residence. Think I'll sink the pot into the sand once its finished flowering too. I'll certainly put some of Ian's magic powder on it after flowering....
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Here are two pictures of Erythronium americanum 'Craigton Flower'. I assume that it the same as Maggi shows.
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That's the very one, Kirsten.... looking very pretty for you. :)
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Checked my seed frame today to find very good germination in two pots of ex. Erythronium 'White Beauty' sown last July. Should I take them under glass now? I assume they will be OK in the seed pots for another year?
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My first Erythronium of the season, E. dens-canis Lilac Wonder. A bit ragged, but slugs are just rampant in my garden.
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A couple of Erythronium dens-canis flowering here:
E. dens-canis 'Pink Perfection'
and E. dens-canis 'White Splendour'
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Checked my seed frame today to find very good germination in two pots of ex. Erythronium 'White Beauty' sown last July. Should I take them under glass now? I assume they will be OK in the seed pots for another year?
Anyone??
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David,
I have two pots of E. hendersonii, one of which I popped into the ground in the Autumn and the other just left outside. Not problems. Both are growing away like fun. It looks like I'll have masses of them in a few years! Much easier than I anticipated. I suspect alll Erythronium are about as hardy.
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Checked my seed frame today to find very good germination in two pots of ex. Erythronium 'White Beauty' sown last July. Should I take them under glass now? I assume they will be OK in the seed pots for another year?
David
I never take my Erythronium seedlings under glass they are perfectly hardy outside and less likely to damp off in the open. Watch for slugs and snail >:( ;)
Do not repot until at least the end of the second season of growth.
I tend to use the deep type of plastic pot to sow my Erythroniums in and often do not repot until they start to flower - then they get transferred to the garden.
I wrote an article on growing Erythroniums from seed in the Rock Garden. It is bigger than the permitted attachment on the forum but I can send you it as a PDF file if you would like.
Edit by maggi: pdf is available in the next post, split into three smaller parts. :)
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I wrote an article on growing Erythroniums from seed in the Rock Garden. It is bigger than the permitted attachment on the forum but I can send you it as a PDF file if you would like.
I've split the article down to three parts to allow loading it here......
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
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Guff, we have americanum with yellow anthers, brown anthers and dark maroony-pruple anthers... only colours we haven't seen is really pale yellow/cream/white.
Maggi.........does this qualify as pale yellow or not. i thought at first that this was E.rostratum as it is completely devoid of red spots and has yellow anthers, but I have it on good authority that this is definitely E.americanum
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..and another shot of the purple-anthered E. americanum
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Guff, we have americanum with yellow anthers, brown anthers and dark maroony-pruple anthers... only colours we haven't seen is really pale yellow/cream/white.
Maggi.........does this qualify as pale yellow or not. i thought at first that this was E.rostratum as it is completely devoid of red spots and has yellow anthers, but I have it on good authority that this is definitely E.americanum
No Alan, that's a clear yellow non-spotty americanum. The "pale yellow" would be really pale, creamy coloured.
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OK Maggi....I'll let you know if I find one !!!! Must be one around here somewhere.
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OK Maggi....I'll let you know if I find one !!!! Must be one around here somewhere.
Well, you would think so, wouldn't you?
Happy hunting! ;D
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Many thanks Ian and Maggi, I've saved them to a file.
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For those of you in the vicinity of Salem, Oregon, the "2011 Erythronium Festival" is scheduled for next weekend. See http://www.historicdeepwoodestate.org/historic/estate/calendar_event/378/ for a schedule of events. Unfortunately there may not actually be any Erythroniums blooming by next weekend. Our weather has been unusually cold and rainy lately, and I still don't have any open flowers, not even of the earliest western species (E. hendersonii and E. tuolumnense), just buds. This year we are more than 2 weeks behind the flowering times of last year. But of course last year was unusually early.
Ed
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Here my first Erythronium for this spring,
E.caucasicum
E.dens-canis ssp.niveum
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I only grow 3 different Erythroniums - Snowgoose, dens- canis and citrinum var. roderickii. Snowgoose isnt up so far this year, most dens-canis have extra petals and citrinum var. roderickii hasnt got a flower bud.
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E. dens-canis 'Charmer' in flower today.
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My first one of the season
Erythronium 'White Beauty'
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Here's two from me !
E. tuolumnense
and
E. hendersonii
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Nice photos of Erythronium tuolumnense, Luc. This just confirms for me what I said when you posted photos last year, that your patch of E. tuolumnense looks much more like the wild plants (at least the ones I have seen) than the various clones I have obtained through commercial sources. Yours appear to have larger flowers with the tepals more strongly curved/reflexed. I also see some newly germinating seedlings in the foreground of the first photo! This emphasizes to me the value of propagation by seed. The commercially available clones have probably been increased by division of bulb offsets, so selection has perhaps been more for vegetative vigor rather than good flower form.
Ed
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Very nice erythroniums Luc.
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Thanks Ed and Gerry ! :D
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Here's two from me !
E. tuolumnense
and
E. hendersonii
Very nice Luc and cracking images too.
Here's a very 'fuzzy' one of my Erythronium 'Pagoda'
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Nice Erythronium from all,
here some flowers in my garden:
Ery. dens-canis 'Lilac Wonder',
bed with Ery. dens-canis, left planted in 2010, right in 2009
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Here the earliest
- caucasicum and sibiricum Early Wonder
Janis
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Here's a new erythronium shown at Edinburgh yesterday. I've posted it on the show page, but thought some enthusiasts might not see it there, so here it is again, along with a note that was with it.
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As the Erythronium season gets into its stride here, the BD is a happy man....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2011Apr061302090756BULB_LOG__1411.pdf
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As the Erythronium season gets into its stride here, the BD is a happy man....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2011Apr061302090756BULB_LOG__1411.pdf
I can't imagine why ;D ;D ;D, that Erythronium sibericum with narrow petals is a dinky little thing!
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.......that Erythronium sibericum with narrow petals is a dinky little thing!
It really is... it ( from soil to tip of top petal) is about the height of my index finger and cute as a button!
If it were a big flower the narrow petals would look squinny but since it its so little it is just lovely. The markings are nice and clear too, which helps.
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It really is... it ( from soil to tip of top petal) is about the height of my index finger and cute as a button!
Aahh Bless 8)
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There is a rural road nearby where many of the land owners have pooled their efforts and planted daffodils all along the road for a distance of perhaps 10 miles. It is considered a local tourist attraction and every year there is a weekend "Daffodil Festival" at the local grange hall. I don't have anything against daffodils, but it bothers me that the native wildflowers (some of which are blooming at the same time) don' get any credit. Even worse, the herbicides that are sprayed on the roadside, in part to encourage the daffodils I presume, have significantly damaged the native wildflowers (but this is a much wider problem as well). I was driving down this road a few days ago and noticed a sizable patch of wild Erythronium oregonum growing among the planted daffodils, so I stopped to take some photos.
Note that this is the form of Erythronium oregonum with pale anthers and light yellow flowers that I believe is properly called ssp. leucandrum, though most references don't recognize this subspecies. You can really see the yellow color in the photo that also shows the clump of white Narcissus.
Ed
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Oh my! Wait till Ian sees these, Ed!!
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Wow :o that's wonderful Ed, thanks for showing us.
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Wow!!! Really impressive, I wish I could see such a display in person!
More modestly, Erythronium 'White Beauty' flowering fo the first time in my garden today....
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Give me that stand of Erythronium over the daffs any day.
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I keep forgetting to tell you about some more excitement in the garden. Last year only one group of my E. Snow Goose came up and flowered. This year both groups are up. Is it normal for Erythroniums to take a year out?
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Does anyone know anything about the RHS Erythronium trials, 2011-2014? see
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/planttrials/trials2.asp?trialnum=1895
There is a very long list of species and cultivars, including some names I have never heard of. For example, what is Erythronium sahohime?
Ed
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I keep forgetting to tell you about some more excitement in the garden. Last year only one group of my E. Snow Goose came up and flowered. This year both groups are up. Is it normal for Erythroniums to take a year out?
Yes, it is quite normal for Erythroniums. Depends from weather conditions.
Janis
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I keep forgetting to tell you about some more excitement in the garden. Last year only one group of my E. Snow Goose came up and flowered. This year both groups are up. Is it normal for Erythroniums to take a year out?
Yes, it is quite normal for Erythroniums. Depends from weather conditions.
Janis
A pity we can't behave the same way... ;D
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Amazing pictures Ed !!!! Thanks for stopping and showing them !
Some less impressive pix here :
1 and 2 : Erythronium "Pagoda"
3) E. "White beauty"
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Does anyone know anything about the RHS Erythronium trials, 2011-2014? see
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/planttrials/trials2.asp?trialnum=1895
There is a very long list of species and cultivars, including some names I have never heard of. For example, what is Erythronium sahohime?
Ed
Ed, the committee met to view the plants last week and I'm afraid there has been something of a disaster. The trials have been abandoned.
An extraordinary state of affairs, which I hope will be avoided next time. A lot of rare and valuable bulbs lost in this failure. :'(
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Oh Maggi, what a terrible shame, I was just going to suggest to the driver that we had a trip down to see them :-\
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Maggie,
How did they manage to kill Erythroniums? It is not easy to kill them 6 months after getting them. Luckily I only sent in 2 varieties as they were late in asking me and I had planted most back in the ground or sold them. I am still annoyed but at least it is only 6 bulbs. Some people must have sent in a lot of valuable bulbs.
Susan
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Planted them in an area with unsuitable soil, lifted them, potted them, planted them again and other such nonsense, as far as I can gather.
Massive losses and the ones not dead not worth bothering about.
Not a happy circumstance for anyone involved.
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From the trials list I now have the real name for my Snow Goose - Erythronium californicum 'Harvington Snowgoose'
I womder if Erythronium californicum 'Brocklamont Inheritance' has anything to do with Margaret Glynn. Her house is called Brocklamont.
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Erythronium revolutum 'Knightshayes' is flowering here now
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Here are a few of mine. They seem to be doing well this year
E oreganum and a closeup
E white splendour
E Pagoda
E Knightshayes though it does look lighter in colour than Wim's
E revolutum hendersonii from soc seed
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Ian, your yellow Erythronium is E.tolumnense.
Here some pictures from me:
E.sibiricum ssp.altaicum
tolumnense
umbilicatum ( thanks Ed for identity )
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Wonderful Erythronium Ian and Dirk !!! :o :o
Here's a couple from me :
Erythronium citronella
and
Erythronium x "Kingfaun's Pink"
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Ian, your yellow Erythronium is E.tolumnense.
Dirk you are correct a senior moment my memory playing tricks again ::)
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Luc, that's a nice one of Susan's Erys... but it is not "Kingfaun's Pink" it is 'Kinfaun's Pink'.... there is no "G"
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Nice pictures everyone.
I have White Splendour, but I thought it was a dens canis form? Haven't seen it flower yet.
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Luc, that's a nice one of Susan's Erys... but it is not "Kingfaun's Pink" it is 'Kinfaun's Pink'.... there is no "G"
Oops, thank you Maggi, I'll try and remember that ! ;)
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Planted them in an area with unsuitable soil, lifted them, potted them, planted them again and other such nonsense, as far as I can gather.
Massive losses and the ones not dead not worth bothering about.
Not a happy circumstance for anyone involved.
Wisley have done this to Iris trials too, - mulching and irrigating bearded, planting water Iris on a well drained south facing slope, lifting and replanting Pacific Coast Iris. The trial ground gardeners don't seem to listen to the plantsmen
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This makes me very happy.
1-Erythronium seedlings
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Very nice, Guff, I can see why that makes you happy. I have sowed Erythroniums several times, but never had any sprout; and thanks, now I know what to look for if I'm luckier this year. The two Erythroniums that opened here today were bought as plants, the sibiricum about ten years ago, and the dens-canis more recently.
Knud
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Wonderful Erythronium Ian and Dirk !!! :o :o
Here's a couple from me :
Erythronium citronella
and
Erythronium x "Kingfaun's Pink"
Thanks Luc,
here some pictures from this sunday:
Ery.oregonum
oregonum ssp.leucandrum, young seedlings
hendersonii from AGS seed
hendersonii, possibly a hybrid ( a good grower, many flowers on the stem and set
only very few seeds )
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Dirk, can you post some close-up photos of your possible Erythronium hendersonii hybrid? That way we can look to see if there is any evidence of hybrid influence in any of the morphological details. My plants of E. hendersonii grown from wild collected seed are similarly upright, tall, vigorous, and multi-flowered, and they don't really seem to produce much good seed, so it certainly could be a good form of straight E. hendersonii. Are the plants reproducing vegetatively from offsets?
About 4 or 5 years I manually pollinated the flowers of my E. revolutum patch with pollen from E. hendersonii. I planted the resulting seeds and now I have about 20 plants, the first of which are flowering this year. My goal was to produce a plant with the coloration of E. hendersonii but infused with a bit of the broader hardness and garden tolerance of E. revolutum. You can clearly see the influence of E. hendersonii in the flowers of the hybrid, including the purple ovary and dark purple spot in the center of the flowers. But, the flowers are a bit more pink than E. hendersonii, and there is a yellow fringe on the outer edge of the purple center. Now, I am going to back-cross the hybrid with E. hendersonii, I'll let you know in 4 or 5 years what I get!
Ed
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And for comparison purposes, here are photos of the two parent species, E. hendersonii and E. revolutum, the same patches from which the hybrids were produced.
Ed
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Dirk, can you post some close-up photos of your possible Erythronium hendersonii hybrid? That way we can look to see if there is any evidence of hybrid influence in any of the morphological details. My plants of E. hendersonii grown from wild collected seed are similarly upright, tall, vigorous, and multi-flowered, and they don't really seem to produce much good seed, so it certainly could be a good form of straight E. hendersonii. Are the plants reproducing vegetatively from offsets?
About 4 or 5 years I manually pollinated the flowers of my E. revolutum patch with pollen from E. hendersonii. I planted the resulting seeds and now I have about 20 plants, the first of which are flowering this year. My goal was to produce a plant with the coloration of E. hendersonii but infused with a bit of the broader hardness and garden tolerance of E. revolutum. You can clearly see the influence of E. hendersonii in the flowers of the hybrid, including the purple ovary and dark purple spot in the center of the flowers. But, the flowers are a bit more pink than E. hendersonii, and there is a yellow fringe on the outer edge of the purple center. Now, I am going to back-cross the hybrid with E. hendersonii, I'll let you know in 4 or 5 years what I get!
Ed
Dear Ed, many thanks for your fantastic pictures.
This form increases very well, in 7 years became from an bulb more than 20 pieces.
The last year some seed was attached for the first time.
I try to take some photos during the next days still for comparison.
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This is one of te most famous: E. 'Pagode'.
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Here are a few pictures from one pot of seedlings from E. hendersonii which must have hybridised in the garden. Which ones shall I name and bulk up too much of a choice :D
Also E. taylori and E. elegans?
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They are beautifull Susan. Of the hybreds the one on the left looks most distinctive with its colour blend, but there are so many species anyway that adding more to the swarm of named hybreds leaves me feeling overwhelmed.
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How about these for one or two Erythroniums filmed by me today
part 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INPI8o1RU6U[/youtube]
part 2
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcC8Se5a_k[/youtube]
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Here are a few pictures from one pot of seedlings from E. hendersonii which must have hybridised in the garden. Which ones shall I name and bulk up too much of a choice :D
Also E. taylori and E. elegans?
Gorgeous flowers Susan !! :o :o
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The one on the right appeals to me more
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Here are a few pictures from one pot of seedlings from E. hendersonii which must have hybridised in the garden. Which ones shall I name and bulk up too much of a choice :D
Also E. taylori and E. elegans?
Susan, might I suggest that you treat your E. hendersonii hybrids as if you were implementing a deliberate hybridization program? I have no credentials as a plant breeder, but based upon what I have picked up over the years, I would think that some of the criteria (in addition to flower color and markings) would include flower form (nicely reflexed is best), plant size and shape (particularly the size of the flowers relative to the leaves, the bigger the flowers relative to the leaves the better), ability to increase vegetatively from offsets, and general growing ability under normal garden conditions. For example, E. hendersonii comes from a climate that very dry summer conditions and winters that are not so cold, so crosses with hardier species (such as E. oregonum, which it looks like yours may be) may confer and extra bit of garden worthiness.
Also, I might suggest that you manually pollinate the various E. hendersonii hybrid plants with other hybrids from the same seed lot, and grow on the resulting seedlings. In theory it would be this F2 generation that would provide the wider range of combinations of plant traits, thus increasing the chance of coming up with a plant that meets all of your plant breeding criteria.
Also, about your E. taylori - I think this would be an excellent plant to use for breeding, but it is quite uncommon in cultivation. Try crossing it with some of your other white flowered species - in particular I'd suggest trying a cross with E. elegans; also the nominate (white flowered) form of E. oregonum, which formally should be called ssp. oregonum, would be good.
Let us know what happens!
Ed
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Susan, phantastic Erythronium :D
Ed,here the comparison from my two forms Ery.hendersonii,
left: normal form with pollen and more curve in the flower
right: vigorous form with shorter anthers without pollen
Ery.americanum, over 50 bulbs and only three flowers >:(
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Here are a few pictures from one pot of seedlings from E. hendersonii which must have hybridised in the garden. Which ones shall I name and bulk up too much of a choice :D
Also E. taylori and E. elegans?
Gorgeous seedlings Susan. Speaking as the owner of a lovely clump of E.'Pagoda' (it's taken me about five years to get it to the catagory of "clump") and one or two other, but 'sqinny' kinds I'd be interested in more details on your bulking up procedure please?
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Hi Ed, I am planning to separate the seedlings out and grow them on for a few years, that might reduce my choice since any that don't do well here won't be considered. All my Erythronium are grown outside, most do really well in Scotland. I have already named a pink hybrid from E. revolutum, What was lacking in the general trade was a pink that bulked up well, I have had reports that it does well in most parts of the country, I think it had crossed with white beauty and has it's vigor, perhaps not as beautiful as some of the forms of revolutum but decidedly easier to grow for the general public.
I hadn't planned to get hybrids from E. hendersonii I am afraid I will have to be retired before I will have the time to do any deliberate hybridization. I just like to grow stock from seed as well as division in case there are any problems with pests or diseases. Usually I only grow my seedlings from wild seed but with Ron Ratko giving up the sources are getting less.
The E. taylori was grown from wild seed as are all the other species I grow. Although they flowered a little last year, this year they are being to show their potential. I like the way the flowers reflex back so much, I can see why you think it would be a good candidate for hybridisation.
It will be a while before any more hybrids will be available to the masses so to speak but I have a couple of good hybrids from dark E. revolutum that I might release soon. Any from this batch of hendersonii I decide to keep will probably take about 5-10years before being released.
David, to bulk up any Erythronium that I want it is a case of planting in good leafy soil in a cool position and digging every couple of Autumns and separating them out to different areas of the garden/beds. In general the hybrids tend to do better. Joanne is an attractive one which multiplies well as is of course White Beauty (assumed not to be a hybrid) Pagoda and my own Kinfauns Pink.
Thanks everyone for the kind compliments and I will show them again in 5 years.
Susan
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Went out walking along the Monon Trail today, and found masses of Erythronium americanum and E. albidum in bloom in many spots. They weren't in bloom when I passed that way on Monday. The Monon Trail is a former railroad track, improved and paved: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/201008.html#e6c
I should have carried my camera along. Spring has come to Central Indiana!
Jim
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Went out walking along the Monon Trail today, and found masses of Erythronium americanum and E. albidum in bloom in many spots. They weren't in bloom when I passed that way on Monday. The Monon Trail is a former railroad track, improved and paved: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/201008.html#e6c
I should have carried my camera along. Spring has come to Central Indiana!
Jim
You should have carried Ian Young along, Jim, he'd love to see them !
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I've always read/heard that E. americanum is a shy flowerer but there are two gardens over here where they flower really well. Photo later
Two from my garden - Harvington Snowgoose and Kinfauns Pink. I dont know where Kinfauns came from. I know it's one of Susan Bands but it didnt come from her. My Snowgooses/Snowgeese were sooo cheap because onthe pot I bought had about 9 bulbs inside. One clump didnt flower last year
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The E. americanum out along the Monon Trail are blooming fairly generously this year -- but I don't recall seeing them blooming there at all last spring! The small batch of americanum in my bit of woods -- transplanted in by me -- had only one single flower this spring, and that one had gone over by today when I took the camera out. I do have some pictures from my patch of albidum to share, perhaps tomorrow. I've still been too lazy to carry the Nikon D90 along with me on the Monon Trail.
While the two native species naturally do fairly well in my patch of woods, other species from around the world that I've planted here generally have done poorly. Of those tried so far, multiscapoideum (or whatever it's called now) is the only one to still be hanging on far out of its natural range.
Jim
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Here is a single, typical, white Erythronium albidum blooming in my bit of woods. These were transplanted in from a friend's wood about 5 miles from here. Also shown is a very unusual specimen that appeared in my patch of albidum this year for the first time: a bright yellow form of what I think surely must be albidum, even though a few feet away is a very small patch of E. americanum. I've never heard of the two hybridizing, and they occur within feet of each other in habitat all the time.
Most of the americanum seem to be past prime now, which the albidum look quite fresh. Even so, I assume there is more than just a temporal barrier to hybridization between these two species.
Jim
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Susan, phantastic Erythronium :D
Ed,here the comparison from my two forms Ery.hendersonii,
left: normal form with pollen and more curve in the flower
right: vigorous form with shorter anthers without pollen
Dirk, the only thing I can see in the close-ups of your E. hendersonii forms that suggest hybridization is that the stigma lobes look a bit longer than I usually see in E. hendersonii (species with which it is likely to hybridize in the garden such as E. oregonum, revolutum, or californicum all have markedly lobed stigmas). The description in Flora of North America says that the style/stigma of E. hendersonii should be unlobed or with lobes up to 1 mm. long. So you might take a ruler to the flowers and check this character. If they were hybrids, I would expect to see yellow or red bands in the center of the flower along with the purple. The colors of the tepals look just like regular E. hendersonii, in which there can be a lot of variation in the intensity or darkness of the shade of lavender of the flowers. This is reflected in my photos posted earlier, my plants are grown from seed from a single wild population but some are almost white, others fairly deep lavender. I can't really see the anther filaments in your photo, but a hybrid with E. oregonum or E. revolutum (though not E. californicum) would have somewhat flattened filaments, in contrast to the thin (thread-like) filaments of straight E. hendersonii.
Ed
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The last one in my garden is flowering here today:
Erythronium helenae.
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Here are a few pictures from one pot of seedlings from E. hendersonii which must have hybridised in the garden. Which ones shall I name and bulk up too much of a choice :D
Also E. taylori and E. elegans?
All three are very good! Phantastic, Suzie! My greetings!
Janis
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Susan Band's lovely Kinfauns Pink on Ebay and they are using Susan's photo to sell it.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390263912439&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNAFP:GB:1123 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390263912439&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNAFP:GB:1123)
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Thanks Janis,
Mark it is okay, I supply them to westcountry and she asked about the photo.
Susan
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Does anyone know the name of the lovely white Erythronium on the Beechgrove Garden tonight
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Erythronium Kinfauns pink
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It's a beauty Michael.
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Good angle Michael.
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During my mooching around several Erythroniums in greenhouse finished blooming, but many came up. I tried to picture some.
Erythronium albidum
Erythronium Early White Beauty
Erythronium multiscapoideum
Erythronium oregonum
Erythronium revolutum
Erythronium taylorii
Janis
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Does anyone know the name of the lovely white Erythronium on the Beechgrove Garden tonight
Just whizzed through the i-player to see the white erythronium .... it is E. hendersonii - probably sourced from Ian the Christie kind :)
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Janis, nice pictures.
Here some from me:
Ery.elegans
helenae
'Joanna'
'Kinfauns Pink'
'Pink Beauty'
'Sundisc'
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One of the few Erythronium I've tried in my garden that has survived -- other than the two native species -- is E. multiscapoideum. I don't think this one is increasing, and I don't recall ever seeing seeds set, even though I have two separate accessions. Here is one of mine in bloom right now.
E. americanum and E. albidum are apparently all finished here already.
Jim
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I know these are long since over elsewhere but here are a few E. dens-canis from today.
Forumists kindly indentified these two in the photos which came in this lot:
Erythronium dens-canis 'Frans Hal'-Abundantly flowering nicevariety with bright lilac flowers, brown throat
Erythronium dens-canis 'Lilac Wonder' - a chocolate brown spot at the base of the flower
Erythronium dens-canis 'Moerheimii' - sem-double flowers, which are deep purple
Erythronium dens-canis 'Pink Perfection' - clear pink flowers
Erythronium dens-canis 'Rose Beauty' - RB is a revolutum - could it be Rose Queen?
Erythronium dens-canis 'Snowflake' - Large white flowers with reddish brown ring in the center but shld have marbled leaves, olive at the base of flwr, faint ring of red spots inside
Unfortunately I can't find the labels again. Can anyone hazard a guess as to what they might be?
johnw
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In 2009 I reported we had only 3% germination on E. revolutum. We tried again that autumn with more fresh revolutum seed from a Vancouver garden (with species and hybrids growing side by side) and have done a little better. :D No markings yet, should we expect some hybridity?
johnw
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In 2009 I reported we had only 3% germination on E. revolutum. We tried again that autumn with more fresh seed from a Vancouver garden with species and hybrids and have done a little better. :D johnw
What does 100% germination look like John? :o :o :o
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John - your E. dens canis are extremely attractive. However, I'm not too clear as to how the names relate to the photos.
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John - your E. dens canis are extremely attractive. However, I'm not too clear as to how the names relate to the photos.
Of the six in the list only two cultivars remain, those photographed. The labels have again disappeared so I'm trying to figure out which ones they are.
johnw
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John - your E. dens canis are extremely attractive. However, I'm not too clear as to how the names relate to the photos.
Of the six in the list only two cultivars remain, those photographed. The labels have again disappeared so I'm trying to figure out which ones they are.
johnw
John - I think you have an uphill struggle here. According to Brian Mathew in AGS Bulletin 66 (3) p.309: "they have become muddled in cultivation and the original descriptions are often lacking in precise detail so that it is difficult to be certain what the plants should really be like." I suspect that there are also lots of seedlings around. But Good Luck!
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Nice pictures everyone.
1-2 Frans Hals, first time flowering. Maybe tomorrow it will be warmer.
3 Revolutum seedlings(first spring)
John how many springs old are your revolutum seedlings?
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Nice pictures everyone.
1-2 Frans Hals, first time flowering. Maybe tomorrow it will be warmer.
3 Revolutum seedlings(first spring)
John how many springs old are your revolutum seedlings?
Guff - I think my pink one in the photo is very close to your Frans Hal. Thank-you. I am very surprised that mine is ahead of yours as it has been a very cool Spring here.
The revolutum seeds were planted in the autumn of 2009 and came up Spring 2010. So they are about 13 months old, a bit ahead as they were stored frost-free for the winter.
johnw
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In 2009 I reported we had only 3% germination on E. revolutum. We tried again that autumn with more fresh seed from a Vancouver garden with species and hybrids and have done a little better. :D johnw
What does 100% germination look like John? :o :o :o
Art - Then we check the drainage holes. ;)
johnw
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John, I reread your above post.
So there are only two different forms in the pictures? If so I would say the pink is Rose Queen and the other is Snowflake. I'm only guessing though, I have both but they haven't flowered for me yet.
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Janis, nice pictures.
Here some from me:
Ery.elegans
helenae
'Joanna'
'Kinfauns Pink'
'Pink Beauty'
'Sundisc'
Udo - I enjoy seeing and very envious of your well-spaced and orderly plantings, I was even counting the Erythronium rows in your previous photo of 2 April. Lovely collection. Do you run an Erythronium nursery?
johnw
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John, I reread your above post.
So there are only two different forms in the pictures? If so I would say the pink is Rose Queen and the other is Snowflake. I'm only guessing though, I have both but they haven't flowered for me yet.
Yes only two are shown and I hadn't considered the first might be Snowflake as it's not exactly white. Now that you mention it Rose Queen rings a bell, I think possibly someone i.d.'ed it as such in 2009. I will photo the interior and check for spots.
I meant to mention White Beauty is just poking up a few inches/cms. here. I will check the tolumenses tomorrow.
johnw
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Love your E. Snowgeese Mark. Are you sure they're not E. 'Canada Geese' - I mean 9 in a pot, really?
johnw
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Janis, nice pictures.
Here some from me:
Ery.elegans
helenae
'Joanna'
'Kinfauns Pink'
'Pink Beauty'
'Sundisc'
Udo - I enjoy seeing and very envious of your well-spaced and orderly plantings, I was even counting the Erythronium rows in your previous photo of 2 April. Lovely collection. Do you run an Erythronium nursery?
johnw
Yes John, i have a small nursery. Not only Erythronium, but also Crocus, Corydalis and other bulbs.
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In the book Bulbs of North America it's spelled Franz Hals and says light reddish violet. Whether mine is the real one or not,no clue.
1-2 Frans Hals
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Dirk wondering about your rows of Lilac Wonder. How many years did it take to have that many and how many did you start off with?
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In the book Bulbs of North America it's spelled Franz Hals and says light reddish violet. Whether mine is the real one or not,no clue.
1-2 Frans Hals
Guff - a very nice photo of a very attractive flower. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over its precise identity which is probably impossible to determine anyhow.
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Gerry thanks.
John, take a look here.
http://www.litbulbgarden.com/catalogue3.php
Does Pagoda set seed?
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Dirk wondering about your rows of Lilac Wonder. How many years did it take to have that many and how many did you start off with?
Guff, this Erythronium 'Lilac Wonder' is planted in 2009. I replanted my cultivars
from dens-canis every two years. I started with 10 bulbs in around 1995.
Erythronium 'Pagoda' set by me some seeds.
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The first Erythromium this year is Erythronium sibiricum altaicum
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A good performer here.
Erythtronium californicum 'White Beauty'
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Our Erythronium are going over at a very fast rate this year.... but the latest Bulb Log manages to mention a few ;) ;D
New Log online....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2011Apr271303906276BULB_LOG__1711.pdf
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Where is the drooling thingy when you need it - absolutely stunning Erythronium.
The Craigton Cover Girl I was given last October had two flower stems and appears to have set seed - thanks Ian & Maggi
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You can see the flowers of 'Snowflake' are a bit cleaner at this point. Flowers are still emerging.
johnw
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This was not a bad winter for Erythroniums in my place in mid Sweden. The siberians did not try to flower below ground level and japonicum put up a show on every bulb.
Göte
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Erythronium dens-canis with 7 petals
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In my part of the world the Erythronium is already wilting, and going through the woods today I noticed among thousands of normal E. dens-canis a few plants with these red leaves. Does anyone have any idea what might have caused the unusual coloration?
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Is this not simply the anthocyanins in the leaves being activated early because of the much warmer spring season that many of these plants have experienced, rushing them to earlier "autumn" colour than is usual?
I know that the foliage of erythroniums is long gone by "real" autumn, but the colouring processes initiated by the anthocyanins is the same, is it not?
We have found here in north-east Scotland that the Erythroniums ( and other plants) have gone over very quickly as a result of the abnormally warm weather we have had this spring. The flowers seemed in a great hurry to flower and try to make seed in the heat.... whether or not the seed set is a good one remains to be seen. I would think that the faster than usual decay of the foliage is not a good aid to helping the plant ripen a full seed load.
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Normally the leaves have a yellowish tint as the bulbs enter the dormancy state (like the one on the right).
At first I thought it is a deasease. But the bulb does not seem to be blemished in any way, and these are very isolated plants among thousands of normal ones.
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Ian says the leaf could have had a minor damage to the stem which inhibits the anthocyanins progress back down to the bulb, causing the colour to be in the leaf.
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Erythronium nearing the end for this year.
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1 Americanum
2 Pagoda
3 White Beauty
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Erythronium nearing the end for this year.
You're lucky. Our Erythronium finished up several weeks ago. Now the Trillium are almost gone as well.
Jim in central Indiana
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Dirk thanks, I have seed pods on both White Beauty and Pagoda growing.
I ordered some revolutum plants a couple weeks ago, i'm thinking atleast two springs before I see a flower? There were two or three decent sized bulbs out of eight when I went to plant them.
1-Revolutum seedlings
2-Erythronium bed
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Found a nursery that has erythronium purpurascens for sale, how hardy is this plant? Would it grow in zone 4-5, worth taking a chance?
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Found a nursery that has erythronium purpurascens for sale, how hardy is this plant? Would it grow in zone 4-5, worth taking a chance?
I've never seen it offered, Guff.
We have it from seed but it is not an easy species, though cold hardiness is not likely to be an issue. It won't enjoy too much heat, for sure. I'd give it a try.
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Maggi thanks, ordered one. Also getting 3 hendersonii and 1 oregonum
I don't think the nursery has a web site, but he will send a plant list by email. Will need Excel program to read the file or download Excel Viewer.
http://download.cnet.com/Excel-Viewer-2003/3000-2064_4-10751304.html
oregonnativeplant@yahoo.com
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Now that it is mid-August, the Erythronium flowering season has finally begun at Paradise Meadows, in the subalpine zone on Mt. Rainier. The combination of heavy winter snowfall and a cool spring and summer has resulted in a very late melt-out of the snow in the subalpine zone this year. You can see for yourself at the Paradise web cam at http://www.skimountaineer.com/MtnWebCams/Rainier-MtnWebCams.html?size=med&telemetry=true
Unfortunately they don't have any of the cameras pointed in a way to show the meadow vegetation, but both Erythronium montanum and E. grandiflorum grow here.
Normally the subalpine meadows on Mt. Rainier begin to melt out in early July. Four weeks ago were were traveling up to Seattle for a family visit and I wanted to stop off at Mt. Rainier on the way, but the snowpack was still 79 inches on the third weekend in July, so we decided to forego the side trip.
Contrast this with July 2005, which was a very dry year, when I found only a few patches of E. montanum still flowering above Paradise on July 11: http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/july2006/content.html
Ed
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Ed an interesting comparison of the different snow melt times. It makes planning a trip difficult.
We were on Rainier first week of July 2004 and the snow was clear and the meadows in full bloom. Last year at the same time the snow was still a couple of feet deep in the car park and not a chance of a flower. On the road up however the Erythronium montanum were out in thousands (picture attached) and they had of course been over in 2004 in that area. As you know this July we had difficulty in the Mt Shasta area where all the roads were closed at approx 6000ft.
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what an amazing sight Tony ! :D
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Yes, Tony, that is one of the advantages of mountain flowers - you can often bracket the bloom time by looking for a species at the upper or lower end of its elevation range, depending upon whether it is an early year or a late year.
This year's late snowmelt at Mt. Rainier has even merited an article in today's New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/us/14snow.html?ref=us
Ed
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Tanya Harvey visited the Olympic Mountains a couple of weeks ago, where a similar late-melting snowpack has led to a great Erythronium display in mid-August. She has posted some great photos on Flickr at http://www.flickr.com/photos/44228453@N02. The Erythronium photos were taken on August 12th
It is interesting to see the photo of E. montanum and E. grandiflorum growing thoroughly intermixed; in places where I have seen the two species in the same locality they have been growing in separate patches or drifts.
Isn't it now about time for the first erythroniums to start blooming in the southern hemisphere?
Ed
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Hi Ed,your right they are starting to flower now ,have 2 flowering now.
Not real sure about the ID.bye Ray
Erythronium californica
Erythronium howellii
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Tanya Harvey visited the Olympic Mountains a couple of weeks ago, where a similar late-melting snowpack has led to a great Erythronium display in mid-August. She has posted some great photos on Flickr at http://www.flickr.com/photos/44228453@N02. The Erythronium photos were taken on August 12th
It is interesting to see the photo of E. montanum and E. grandiflorum growing thoroughly intermixed; in places where I have seen the two species in the same locality they have been growing in separate patches or drifts.
Ed
Ed, thank you so much for that link... these photos are quite breathtakingly lovely......such a profusion of blossom. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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My last project for this year.
Any advice on these would be great, was just going to sprinkle the seeds in divided sections in the bed. Could divide the seeds up and do some in pots also, thoughts?
1-Erythronium seed bed in progress
2-Erythronium seed packets.
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Before you sow the seeds soak them overnight in some water with a tiny amount of soap added to break the surface tension.
The seeds will plump up and give a much better germination next spring.
Sow on the surface and cover with a cm or so of gravel and wait.
The same applies for pots or directly into the bed.
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Ian, I will try your gravel method. Thanks for the tips.
Bed is mostly done. Alittle clean up to do and add some more compost to the drainage trench. Tomorrow I will see about dividing the bed up, the bed should be twice the size, but only have so much compost.
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Project done, now the wait to see what shows come spring. Forgot to mention the bed is 6ft x 3ft. Planted all the seeds in the bed, decided not to do some in pots.
1-Erythronium seed bed
2-4 Erythronium bulbs from Oregon Native Plant Nursery
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Looking forward to the spring show Guff.
A few pics of plants currently in bloom here.
E.umbilicatum.
E.grandiflorum ssp pallidum.
E.revolutum.
E.dens-canis and close up.
5 Unknowns ......
Cheers Dave.
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Wonderful, toolie.
Makes me long for spring, only 6 months to go ::) ::)