Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Phill on October 10, 2010, 08:29:55 AM

Title: Species Narcissus?
Post by: Phill on October 10, 2010, 08:29:55 AM
Hello, as an sporadic purchaser of Narcissus from run of the mill retail outlets, I was puzzled to find many packages of what purported to be "Species narcissus" (Taylor's Bulbs). The vast majority of these were what I had been led to believe were hybrids. Am I mistaken?, are they "selections" of species? one of them was Tete-a-Tete. I am confused.
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: David Nicholson on October 10, 2010, 09:49:18 AM
Hi Phil, I think Taylors are applying a "marketing" definition to the word "species" :P

Tete-a-Tete was bred by Alec Grey in 1949, the seed parent being 'Cyclatz' and open pollinated pollen. You can check out details of most hybrids here, including full genetic histories.

http://daffseek.org/query/query.php
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: Maggi Young on October 10, 2010, 11:14:58 AM
Hello Phill, good to have you join us.  :)

 It is common to find commercially offered bulb packets , of all sorts of genera, Tulips, Crocus, Narcissus etc, labelled as "species.....".... as David  says, this is a tool used  by the sellers to designate plants which are , in general, miniature types....  to distinguish them from the "average" garden centre types of such  bulbs which tend to be the taller, garden or "florists'" varieties. Thus if a packet is labelled "species", it may well be a hybrid or a selected form of a species but the point being made by the seller is that these are diminutive sorts, closer to the "natural" species from which they are derived.

 Witness the bags of "Dutch" crocus.... these are the large flowered, taller hybrids and "Species" crocus, which are chrysanthus and biflorus hybrids of smaller stature.

Hope this helps? 
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: JPB on October 10, 2010, 09:41:30 PM
So the "species-concept" is finally defined, thanks to the marketing skills of the Professors of Commercial Botany: Small plants are species, while large ones are not! ;D
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: Maggi Young on October 10, 2010, 10:32:47 PM
Yes, priceless, isn't it? Think of all the time and effort that could have been saved educating all those botanists!  ;D
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 10, 2010, 11:08:22 PM
What annoys me is being sold a dozen "species" cyclamineus and ending up with a potful of 'Tête à tête' not worth the postage far less the purchase price. >:(
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 11, 2010, 09:30:16 AM
So the "species-concept" is finally defined, thanks to the marketing skills of the Professors of Commercial Botany: Small plants are species, while large ones are not! ;D

Well, not much worse than other species concepts which have been proposed - though I suppose there is scope for discussion on what might be understood by "small" & "large".

Does anyone else remember " botanical tulips"? So called to distinguish them from the zoological kind I suppose.
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: JPB on October 11, 2010, 07:21:23 PM
"A species is a species if a competent taxonomist defines it as a species"  :-\ How about that one?! There's more truth in it than one might think at first sight  ;D
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: Paul T on October 20, 2010, 02:00:34 AM
Hans,

Now we need the definition of "competent botanist"?  ;D  Competent in whose eyes? ???

 ;)
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 20, 2010, 09:06:50 AM
Hans,

Now we need the definition of "competent botanist"?  ;D  Competent in whose eyes? ???

 ;)
Gene Pool?
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 20, 2010, 09:56:19 AM
Cary O'Type can sometimes be relied on.
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 20, 2010, 12:57:13 PM
Not sure if Phil O'Geny can?
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 20, 2010, 02:47:38 PM
Totally unreliable - he depends too much on the theories of Eve O' Lution.
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: JPB on October 20, 2010, 07:15:39 PM
Phil O'Geneti and his wife Cally are worth considering  ;D
Title: Re: Species Narcissus?
Post by: JPB on October 20, 2010, 07:49:58 PM
"A species is a species if a competent taxonomist defines it as a species"  :-\ How about that one?! There's more truth in it than one might think at first sight  ;D

Of course this will elicit jokes, but is was seriously brought in by my professor during an international meeting on the species concept years ago. We PhD students all laughed, but getting older and wiser I found that it was not that bad a definition at all. It is harder to define a species that it is to find a competent taxonomist....Hmmm, I smell Popper, Kuhn and Lakatos ;D
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