Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Hagen Engelmann on October 01, 2010, 07:54:24 PM
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A nice Crocus nudiflorus with an orange stylus.
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a good start in the october:
Cr.speciosus ssp.speciosus from Krim, the first species in
my collection ( 1987 ) ::)
banaticus, three years old seedlings from blue and white forms,
some `Albus`comes true
mathewii in several forms
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Dirk, it seems that some of your mathewii have a yellow throat??? Unusual.
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Hagen,
you have an excellent form of C. nudiflorus. 8)
Dirk,
impressive size of the C. speciosus!
Lovely forms of C.banaticus and C.mathewii.
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A new month and some new flowers at last. The weather changes from day to day .. rain sun rain but under cover the flowers shine! I am posting some garden crocus pics in my blog (from an untidy garden) in the General Forum area but will show potted plants and interesting forms here.
A nice freshly open Crocus kotschyanus
Crocus serotinus salzmannii seed raised (sown 2001) from white flowered form 'El Torcal' ... originating from El Torcal (see David N recent travel post) where mixed lilac and white populations occur.
Crocus serotinus salzmannii from my own seed sown in 2007 - a nice feathered form.
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After the heavy rain and high winds of yesterday, things settled down today and the the sun came out.
Graeme
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Thank you all for the good galleries of crocus. Is a very fine firework of colours. But a real galanthophile likes the white crocus mostly;D.
Here is Crocus mathewii. I took some leaves of Hamamelis over the pot ;).
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Nice croci (?) alltogether!
Here is Crocus sativus - found today in a herb garden on occasion of a sunday outing near the Dutch border
Gerd
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Tony,
a nice form of C. kotschyanus carrying so much white pollen and the striped C. serotinous ssp. salzmanni (or is yet official to say only C. salzmannii?)
Graeme,
nice croci. Like the C. pulchellus with the intensive egg yellow center.
Hagen,
pretty nice your C. mathewii composition.
Gerd,
quite advanced flowering C. sativus. Mine in the garden just showing tips of leaves...I still hope for flowers.
Today in my garden...
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Is orange not the usual colour for the style of C. nudiflorus? I'm working from memory of 6 months ago, but I'm sure that's the colour of all mine.
Hagen, I do very much like your red leafy background for your white crocus flowers. Looks like some rare and exotic Rheum species, throwing up an amazing flower. ;D
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Is orange not the usual colour for the style of C. nudiflorus? I'm working from memory of 6 months ago, but I'm sure that's the colour of all mine.
Yes it is, Lelsey. Hagen mentioned that his pic was of a nudiflorus with an orange style because a little earlier I'd posted pics of some nudiflorus seedlings with yellow styles that I selected out from my nudiflorus bed last year.
Here's one of them again:
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Ah. That will teach me for skipping some posts when in a hurry. Quite a lot of flowers this year on your Cory. solida seedlings, mostly pinks and lavenders but still a lot to come. The pinks are very pretty.
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hello,
from my last visit in greece......now in bloom crocus spec.
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/04oktober2010001.jpg?t=1286194470)
without any protection, half shady and dry....
cheers
chris
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warm sunny day so some open today
Crocus vallicola
Crocus nerimaniae
Crocus pulchellus
Crocus pallasii
Crocus goulimyi mani white
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Superb series Tony ! Love 'em all but nerimaniae is a clear favourite ! :o
Love all the black anthered species. 8)
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Here started sunny and cold weather - days are sunny and moderately warm, but nights cold. With me still left replanting of Juno irises, but I overcooled in very cold soil and got some virus. This allowed to turn to forum, to show some pictures. Some early bloomers still are blooming, some finished but mass flowering still didn't started. You can see how today looks my crocus greenhouse in first picture.
Still is blooming Crocus sharojanii v. flavus
Mass flowering started with C. vallicola
Usually C. cambessedesii is late, but now are blooming 2 forms of it.
Other pictures in another entry.
Janis
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From Crocus banaticus the first to bloom was white cv. First Snow, now it is joined by traditional purple form
Blooms two forms of Crocus gilanicus
Not plesant surprise got when started blooming 3 pots of commercially obtained C. speciosus ilgazensis. At first they turned mix - one form was usual C. speciosus, but another - Crocus pulchellus, nice form, but not ilgazensis as I baught it.
Janis
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Few more pictures from today
Crocus cancellatus are presented by subsp. mazziaricus and damascenus(? - not checked corm tunics, but looks as damascenus) and
3 different forms of quite uniform Crocus hadriaticus
Janis
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Nice Crocus-show Janis !
Yesterday we had a nice sunday or is it a nice sunny day....Blue sky and warm temperatures..
And my Crocus like it.
First two pictures of an ordinary Crocus speciosus ,one of my first Crocus bought in 1994.
Picture 3 - Crocus speciosus 'Aino'
Picture 4 Crocus asumanniae
Picture 5 - Crocus oreocreticus
Picture 6 - a young Crocus banaticus planted in my peatgarden.
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Few more crocuses from today
Five different forms and subspecies of Crocus kotschyanus. Some doubt about subsp. hakkariensis - although collected by Jim Archibald in its locus classicus, I can't find hairs in flowers throat, although petals shape well agree with description.
The last for today - Crocus mathewii from corms which were sent to me by Jenny Archibald following wish of late husband. My own still only showed noses out of soil.
Janis
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Tony and Janis,
simply mouthwatering looking at your marvelous collection - a pity I do not call a green house my own :(
Chris,
your unknown Greece crocus - in my eyes - resembles a C. cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus.
But I have to say the form of style in your photo is not typical. A pity it is out of focus and unsharp.
Does the stem show Bract and Bracteole?
From where in Greece is it?
Maybe the real experts have different opinions.
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hello armin,
near korinth, loutraki.....
cheers
chris
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Chris,
I'll stay with my opinion... ;D
Kris,
nice images of sumptuous crocus species. I like your photo of C. oreocreticus.
I find it intriguing to compare C. asumaniae with Janis C. mathewii. Both are closest relatives in the phylogeny.
It remains a wonder how probably only a few different genes completely change appearance and habitus.
Janis,
also intriguing to see the variation of C. kotschyanus HKEP9201 vs. your first of C. kotschyanus.
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Today few more of pictures made yesterday
Crocus nudiflorus here can be grown outside but good blooming is only in greenhouse
Just now is culmination of Crimean Crocus pallasii - it really is best of pallasii
Compare it with Crocus pallasii subsp. ? from Kubbe gec in Malatya region of Turkey
And as last for this entry two forms of Crocus pulchellus - white seedling from cv. Zephyr and early blooming form which I started from seeds at end of seventies last century. I got those seeds from Harkov Botanical Garden in Ukraina as C. salzmannii. It nicely passed through decades, sometimes suffered in unfavourable winters, sometimes from rodents, but allways alive. It is smaller by size than Dutch form and blooming starts earlier.
Janis
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I had problems when tried to post allowed 10 pictures, so I'm limiting myself with around 5 by entry.
Still nicely blooms various Crocus speciosus, just showed noses xantholaimos and Iranian forms - those I will show you later, but now forms from Armenia (Gornus) and Abant lake in Turkey. Blooms the largest flowering cv. Artabir.
From Crocus serotinus for the first time with me flowers white form 'El Torcal' and from Sierra Nevada got as subsp. serotinus but by corm tunic is nothing else that common salzmannii. So I'm still looking for true type subsp. serotinus - May be some of you have and can offer for me next season?
As last are Crocus thomasii from Apulia in Italy. The flower segment is mechanically damaged. it isn't virus.
As last another shot from greenhouse view.
Janis
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I agree with you about the beauty of the Crimean Crocus pallasii , Janis. It is a lovely form.
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Crocus flowering now in my garden:
Crocus vallicola
Crocus speciosus
Crocus speciosus 'Oxonian'
Crocus nudiflorus
Poul
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Variation in Crocus banaticus seedlings.
Poul
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Great photos everyone - and finally it made booom and the Crocus season also started in Neustadt.
Within only two days they started everywhere in the garden:
- banaticus Albus, the beautiful white form of the Romanian wood crocus
- cambessedesii, the smallest of all from Mallorca
- goulimyi ssp leucanthus, a wonderful whitish form from Monemvassia
- karduchorum, one of the rarest from Lake Van in Turkey
- 2 medius from different locations is Eastern and middle Liguria / Italy
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some more close-up's:
- vallicola
- tournefortii, opening white and turning to blue within one or two days
- speciosus Aino, or better the one that is sold in Holland as 'Aino'
- speciosus ssp xantholaimos, with its yellow throat
- speciosus 'Oxonian', the darkest speciosus cultivar
- my favourite speciosus - I was sure it is 'Artabir' because it has the dark feathering and
the beautiful scent that is described from this cultivar. But it doesn't fit with the photo
that Janis showed this morning :-\ At least I love it and it's standing much stronger than
all the other speciosus flowers I have.
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Some views from my latest rockgarden
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-12: Standing together: Crocus medius, kotschyanus, speciosus and ssp xantholaimos
-16: Crocus kotschyanus mixed with Colchicum and Cyclamen
-25: Colchicum speciosum, Cyclamen hederifolium....
-01,02,19,44: My first rockgarden, mainly planted with speciosus and kotschyanus different forms
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... and the rest:
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- my favourite speciosus - I was sure it is 'Artabir' because it has the dark feathering and
the beautiful scent that is described from this cultivar. But it doesn't fit with the photo
that Janis showed this morning :-\ At least I love it and it's standing much stronger than
all the other speciosus flowers I have.
My ARTABIR has strongly suffused back of outer flower segments - you can see suffusion on bud between both flowers. It really is different from yours Thomas. I don't know who is right. My description made in 80-ies of last century fits with my plants. Then it originated from Van Tubergen. Didn't cheched scent nor then, nor now.
Janis
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Some views from my latest rockgarden
Are you sure it is your rockgarden and not a mountain somewhere in Europe Thomas ;) ;) ;) 8)
It looks very good and the bulbs seems to do very well .
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Today again for some hours was nice sun and, regardless of fewer, I can't withstand and stepped out of room for some pictures in greenhouse.
The first four is the most beautifully Crocus laevigatus form, with deeply striped back of outer segments. I got this stock by wish of Jim Archibald. I never before saw so deeply colored laevigatus. Thank you, Jim...
Next is wild Crocus ochroleucus from Israel. I got few small corms this autumn and was very surprised when one of them bloomed, so small they were.
Crocus mathewii in this entry is presented by form from Gothenburg BG and it is named by Karin Pearson, who found this beauty in mountains of Turkey
This form of Crocus cancellatus mazziaricus came from Gothenburg BG, too
The last picture is from plant received and labeled as Crocus cancellatus. I suppose that correct name must be Crocus robertianus, although other stocks of this beautiful species still didn't started blooming. Tunic of this is registered as reticulated,so I have no other choice for name although flower segments are narrower than in my other stocks of robertianus.
Janis
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Wow !!! :o :o :o
Hardly to find a favorite Janis ,but the laevigatus is fantastic !
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Janis
I can just echo Kris, they are superb.
Some years ago i have seen a few dark laevigatus, quite similar to yours on Crete, i hope to see them again in a few days.
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Thomas and Janis lovely pictures and great to see,thank you
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Fantastic Crocus Janis and Thomas! :o
Thomas, you are living in really beautyful landscape! Congratulations :D
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Janis, your autumn crocus are eyecatcher.
Thomas you must live in a real crocusworld.
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It is very pleasant to see on my screen that autumn show has been strated,
Janis, what I believe, your pallasii from Kubbe pass is pallasii diaspathaceus! do you see any signal of pallasii turcicus on it? (few broad leaves and biger corms) The pale style should be a feature for diaspathaceus!
Thomas, I wonder how often you replant your crocuses?
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Are you sure it is your rockgarden and not a mountain somewhere in Europe Thomas
Hmm, I WAS sure - until the moment when you asked ;D
Janis, as always in any speciosus cultivar questions the answer will remain a secret due to lack of
reference photos or paintings. I also cant be sure that mine is the true form, all I have is the
description of the Dix/Van Tubergen catalogue where Artabir is described as:
speciosus M.B. 'Artabir' Selected at VT's from material received from Caucasus.
Flowers clear methyl-blue with deep methyl-blue veins. Inner segments lighter
coloured than outer segments. Throat shaded creamy, perianth tubes white
overlaid with a tinge of methyl-blue. Stigma-branches finely divided, deep orpiment-orange.
Stamens deep yellow. Faintly perfumed.
Cassiope and Conquerer are described as 'very large' so I guess that means, that Artabir
is smaller than these.
My plants were selected from a mixed stock of speciosus bought in 2003 from Dix. These
small, strong and scented flowers caught my eye and I decided to separate them. Looked
like they have been cultivated in the past and then mixed all together >:(
Ibrahim, I only replant my crocusses if the baskets are overcrowded. Last year I had many
spare corms and planted them in my latest rockgarden.
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Still nicely blooms various Crocus speciosus, just showed noses xantholaimos and Iranian forms - those I will show you later, but now forms from Armenia (Gornus) and Abant lake in Turkey. Blooms the largest flowering cv. Artabir.
From Crocus serotinus for the first time with me flowers white form 'El Torcal' and from Sierra Nevada got as subsp. serotinus but by corm tunic is nothing else that common salzmannii. So I'm still looking for true type subsp. serotinus - May be some of you have and can offer for me next season?
Janis, it should be crocus speciosus Goris, not Gornus. It was collected near the surroundings of town of Goris (Sothern Armenia).
Did you like crocus serotinus salzmanii vigorous form, which I sent you 2 years ago?
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Still nicely blooms various Crocus speciosus, just showed noses xantholaimos and Iranian forms - those I will show you later, but now forms from Armenia (Gornus) and Abant lake in Turkey. Blooms the largest flowering cv. Artabir.
From Crocus serotinus for the first time with me flowers white form 'El Torcal' and from Sierra Nevada got as subsp. serotinus but by corm tunic is nothing else that common salzmannii. So I'm still looking for true type subsp. serotinus - May be some of you have and can offer for me next season?
Janis, it should be crocus speciosus Goris, not Gornus. It was collected near the surroundings of town of Goris (Sothern Armenia).
Yes, 'Goris'! Thank goodness we got it right in the IRG!
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Oct061286379431IRG9September2010.pdf
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The first two were grown from SRGC Seed Ex. seed obtained as Crocus speciosus sown in August 2007, and are flowering for the first time. They are not speciosus, probably pulchellus, but could they be hybrids between the two?
The second two C. speciosus 'Albus' which I never seem to be able to grow to reasonable sized corms.
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David, that looks like a pure C. pulchellus to me.
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What a magnificent selection of crocuses everyone. It (almost) makes me look forward to autumn again, especially since our spring has been largely cold and dull. My only crocus at present is the last of C minimus 'Bavella Form' which is holding on well in a trough.
Thomas your latest rock garden is very fine. I wonder why I'm not surprised to see so many crocus and colchicum all through it. I hope there will be as many irises in the spring. :D
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David, that looks like a pure C. pulchellus to me.
Ibrahim, many thanks.
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Thank you all for such nice pics
Thomas,have you the descriptions of speciosus aitchisonii. I too try to select the different cultivars. Conqueror looks larger than Cassiope and more late than Artabir. The first is Aino at home with Oxonian.
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hello,
these are my C. speciosus 'Albus'
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20101007-131116-253.jpg)
enjoy
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Janis, it should be crocus speciosus Goris, not Gornus. It was collected near the surroundings of town of Goris (Sothern Armenia).
Did you like crocus serotinus salzmanii vigorous form, which I sent you 2 years ago?
[/quote]
Not allways spelling of hand-writed labels are correct, especially if labels are written by myself. And when I'm re-writing my own labels - oh...
In any case thanks for correction!
About C. serotinus - will check tomorrow, if for me will be possible to go outside. Today I did this, so few pictures will follow.
Janis
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More and more crocuses every day comes out, so only few most exciting for today.
For the first time bloomed very ordinary species, which I collected wild in Turkey E of Čan - Crocus pulchellus. Nothing special but look on shape of flower segments - not many species has so wide and rounded petals. Of course, it is exceptional for pulchellus. It was marked, for further growing in own pot, hoping good increasing.
Nice surprise gave first flower of Crocus pallasii stock collected on roadside to Altinyaila. Very close to mathewii by outer shape. Another one specially marked.
Crocus pallasii dispathaceus and Crocus cancellatus from nr. Goksum (BATM-392) by flower shape looks very similar, only many-branched stigma allows easy separate last as cancellatus form.
From Crocus cancellatus here another subsp. mazziaricus and next is subsp. damascenus.
From traditional cultivars this time Crocus pulchellus 'Zephyr' - really it isn't original stock but healthy open pollinated seedling from virus infected Dutch stock of 'Zephyr', visually inseparable from mother plant.
An as last picture - unexpected visitor in my greenhouse - young viper which came in to get some warm before winter sleep. I took it in bucket and brought to shrubs. Not pleasant visitor, although only some 25-30 cm long, but poisonous from first day after hatching.
Janis
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Oh, forgot to add two different crocuses known under name Crocus kotschyanus leucopharynx. The first is the form common to me since my young years. It was crocus distributed as karduchorum or later as leucopharynx by Van Tubergen and other companies and grown in gardens some 30 years ago. I was quite happy when I reacquired it from some Czech grower (under name C. banaticus ;D). The meeting with this old chap compensated disappointment for wrong name.
Another is the form which I got from Dirk. Really it responds to requirements for leucopharynx if we are regarding to it as variety, but if it will be regarded as cultivar, than another name is required.
Janis
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Janis
They are all superb, some outstending forms of the styles.
The cancellatus from Goksum with narrow petals is particularly nice.
Thanks for showing them.
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Here is a slightly battered Crocus speciosus among a hardy Crinum leaf.
Small clefts in the petals noted
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Here is a slightly battered Crocus speciosus among a hardy Crinum leaf.
Small clefts in the petals noted
Could be just battered, but more likely to be virused.
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Mark:
Pretty sure battered. We had a strong wind and rain for the last three days.
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Mark:
Pretty sure battered. We had a strong wind and rain for the last three days.
Yeah, we had wind and rain for the last few days, cleared and was beautiful today, supposed to be super nice for the next few days. My Crocus kotschyanus came up and all flopped over, I suppose they are not used to this mystery wet stuff after all the drought.
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Here is a slightly battered Crocus speciosus among a hardy Crinum leaf.
Small clefts in the petals noted
My first opinion was that it is virus, but when I saw enlarged picture I more tend to mechanical damage.
Janis
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Janis,
in the last lot of your pictures I like the C. pulchellus with the rounded pedals, very lovely with nice inner markings and dark yellow center.
The stunning C. pallasii who's looking like a C. mathewii, could that be a (natural) hybrid between the two species?
Both are close related in the phylogeny systematic.
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The stunning C. pallasii who's looking like a C. mathewii, could that be a (natural) hybrid between the two species?
Both are close related in the phylogeny systematic.
I think the C. pallasii is straight C. mathewii. The area where it was collected is a well known area for C. mathewii.
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Janis,
in the last lot of your pictures I like the C. pulchellus with the rounded pedals, very lovely with nice inner markings and dark yellow center.
The stunning C. pallasii who's looking like a C. mathewii, could that be a (natural) hybrid between the two species?
Both are close related in the phylogeny systematic.
By Brian Mathew most possibly the best would be to join C. mathewii, assumaniae and pallasii under one name. This pallasii was not collected by myself, so I don't know really how its locality merge with area of mathewii or how far it is. Area of mathewii is larger than earlier supposed. It is first flowering and first flower from this stock and I'm something confused by its appearance, and I something tend to opinion that it could be mathewii. But last autumn I showed picture of cancellatus mazziaricus, flower of which looked just as mathewii. C.pallasii 'Homeri' has dark throat, too + black anthers. So, question remains.
Janis
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In this entry few pictures from today - Crocus cambessedesii and close up of lilac form and variability in Crocus cancellatus - not easy to decide which one is best. BATM-392 I'm showing again - now flowers are more open.
Janis
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In the last entry of today two forms of Crocus kotschyanus - quite similar
Crocus niveus from Peloponnese - one of quite blue specimens, not the darkest blue, but very early
Crocus pulchellus Albus is less common than speciosus Albus, but by my opinion more spectacular although flowers are smaller.
Most striped form of speciosus what I ever saw was named 'Blue Web' by Leonid Bondarenko
And at last - two yellow throated C. speciosus forms - the first was collected by me in Iran, the second is C. speciosus subsp. xantholaimos. The throat of the last of course is deeper yellow, but separating of both isn't easy if you don't know origin of your plant.
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hello,
just another spot with C. speciosus 'Albus'
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20101008-133739-663.jpg)
single flower with visitor, early in the morning
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20101008-133739-832.jpg)
enjoy
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Janis a beautiful series of pictures. I have only one new one open today
Crocus robertianus
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Crocus hadriaticus
This is the form distributed by Anne Wright which is the finest I know. It is very floriferous.
Autumn crocus seem especially good this year with large flowers & lots of them.
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Very nice Gerry, and well grown too.
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Pristine Tony.
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This morning i went once more to the Negev Desert to see this Crocus.
In flora palaestina this crocus is described as Crocus damascenus.
[which is cancellatus ssp damascenus]
In the last years we call it C. ramonensis as for the area where it grows [Ramon], but we haven't described this species yet to give it a new name.
It might also be a new ssp of cancellatus but corm looks different to other ssp.
it grows at altitudes of 850-1100m.
Stamens are unproportionlly long, while the style is short, division under the base of the anther.
After a few hours anthers embrace the style firmly, i do not know if it happens after the flower was already pollinated in order to protect the style or is it self pollination.
The corm quite uniform, many layers of long netted tunics and a long neck, roots base is pointed.
1-3 flowers [mostly 1-2].
It is isolated and restricted to a relatively small area.
Probably a record for longevity!!
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Lovely crocus pictures from everybody.
Tony,
your C. robertianus is a beautiful one!
Goofy,
nice shot of the C. speciosus 'Albus' with the bumble bee.
I'm curious. From where in Germany are you? Who is behind 'Goofy' ;D
Janis,
thanks for your feedback on the C. pallasii /C. mathewii issue.
Another question raised at me when looking at your beautiful C. cancellatus RUDA-009.
Do you consider it as a subspecies pamphylicus due white anthers or could it be a hybrid with C. pulchellus too?
Oron,
I'm impressed how this 'desert crocus' can obvious flower without any visible roots. Amazing how it can manage water balance. :o
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These are the leaves, 2-3, flat on the ground, waxy.
I some years if rain is not sufficient they do not appear at all, from 2006-2008 we haven't seen leaves due to the drought.
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Oron,
I'm impressed how this 'desert crocus' can obvious flower without any visible roots. Amazing how it can manage water balance. :o
Armin,
This is not the only Crocus to flower in our region without having new root; C. pallasii, hermoneus and cancellatus bloom before they receive any rain when soil is dry as a rock.
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Oron,
more fascinating. How much rain (in mm) falls in average in the Negev desert?
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Oron,
more fascinating. How much rain (in mm) falls in average in the Negev desert?
It varies in the different areas of the desert but i would say in a good year from 80 - 250mm [rarely 300mm].
It can even snow once or twice a year above 900m but that lasts a day or two.
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These are the leaves, 2-3, flat on the ground, waxy.
I some years if rain is not sufficient they do not appear at all, from 2006-2008 we haven't seen leaves due to the drought.
Amazing and intriging Oron ! Thanks for showing.Never thought there were crocuses that could withstand drought as well.
I am still surprised ....
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oron, could this one be the same as yours from Negev ?
It comes from Jordan with this strange curved anthers.
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oron, could this one be the same as yours from Negev ?
It comes from Jordan with this strange curved anthers.
Fred
They are similar, but we cant say without comparing the corms.
There are a few species and ssp in the area that flowers look similar if not the same but corms are completely different: cancellatus cancellatus, hermoneus hermoneus, hermoneus palaestinus, Crocus intermediate [cancelatus-hermoneus] from the S. Golan Heights and Ajlun area in Jordan and even some forms of pallasii haussknechtii look similar where the tips ot the style tend to divide, mainly in Shubak area in Jordan.
We got to the conclusion here, that there is no way to tell hermoneus hermoneus from cancellatus cancellatus only by the flower, just by checking the corms.
and if not enough, they often grow together side by side as in Mt. Hermon.
Another thing, the sp from the Negev has a different forms to the petal, it is wider only in the middle, up to 0.7 cm but pointed on other two sides while your is more the 'normal shape'.
Any way it would be intresting to see the form and number of leaves on your plant later on.
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Thank's Oron, and very easy :P
That's why I prefer Ixiolirion genus ;D ;D
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Crocus niveus from Peloponnese - one of quite blue specimens, not the darkest blue, but very early
Here also C niveus is early, I have some in garden for the last week. In pots the lilac/bicolour form (like yours) alos in flower.
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Thank's Oron, and very easy :P
That's why I prefer Ixiolirion genus ;D ;D
Infact, i don't know why i choose to collect Ornithogalum, Romulea and Crocus from the area, each autumn and spring i pass one hour a day knocking my head against the wall. ;D ;)
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Autumn crocus seem especially good this year with large flowers & lots of them.
Yes, I have observed the same thing here ... and the best is yet to come :)
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There are a few species and ssp in the area that flowers look similar if not the same but corms are completely different: cancellatus cancellatus, hermoneus hermoneus, hermoneus palaestinus, Crocus intermediate [cancelatus-hermoneus] from the S. Golan Heights and Ajlun area in Jordan and even some forms of pallasii haussknechtii look similar where the tips ot the style tend to divide, mainly in Shubak area in Jordan.
We got to the conclusion here, that there is no way to tell hermoneus hermoneus from cancellatus cancellatus only by the flower, just by checking the corms. and if not enough, they often grow together side by side as in Mt. Hermon.
Another thing, the sp from the Negev has a different forms to the petal, it is wider only in the middle, up to 0.7 cm but pointed on other two sides while your is more the 'normal shape'.
Oron, your observations are very interesting, as always. Thanks for sharing your pictures and ideas.
..... suggest you put a cushion on the wall ;) ;D
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Crocus niveus from Peloponnese - one of quite blue specimens, not the darkest blue, but very early
Here also C niveus is early, I have some in garden for the last week. In pots the lilac/bicolour form (like yours) alos in flower.
Same here. Nearly all my plants are about 2 weeks earlier than last year.
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First of all, let me say that the autumn crocus pics here in this topic have been outstanding, Janis you have an amazing collection of the most beautiful crocus I have ever seen; Oron, what a treat to see Crocus species in the Negev Desert... unbelievable. All the other contributions, a feast for the eyes.
So, I humbly post a couple autumn crocus that appeared and bloomed over the past 2 gorgeous autumn days:
1 C. sativus - lots more buds coming, this is the earliest it has ever flowered. The scent is wonderful (at close range).
2-3 C. asumaniae - bunching up nicely, sweetly scented. Second photo with pollen-laden bee.
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Janis,
thanks for your feedback on the C. pallasii /C. mathewii issue.
Another question raised at me when looking at your beautiful C. cancellatus RUDA-009.
Do you consider it as a subspecies pamphylicus due white anthers or could it be a hybrid with C. pulchellus too?
[/quote]
RUDA-009 of course is pamphylicus, I simply forgot to write this when prepared pictures.
Cancellatus and pulchellus can't hybridize.
Janis
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I like this form of Crocus mathewii not just for its lovely deep colour. I had one very floriferous corm last year. This year I have three almost as big as the original! :o
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Thank's Oron, and very easy :P
That's why I prefer Ixiolirion genus ;D ;D
Yes Fred, I agree with Oron, but I'm shocked for your knowledge in Ixioliorions. For me allways was mystery how to separate their species - there are several described.
Janis
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You're right Janis, but only 3 or 4 species and Mainly one is grown and widespread all over mediterranean area.
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Wonderful Crocus everyone - this is a glorious thread.
Here's some of my modest collection :
1 and 2 : Crocus asumaniae
3 and 4 : C. banaticus in the garden
5 and 6 : Crocus cancellatus
7 and 8 : Crocus serotinus salzmanii 'El Torcal'
9 : Crocus tournefortii in the garden
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I like this form of Crocus mathewii not just for its lovely deep colour. I had one very floriferous corm last year. This year I have three almost as big as the original! :o
Nice ones Anthony.
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..... and yours too Luc.
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Luc,
you have a beautiful collection
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Good evening Luc,
Yours collection is really very beautiful. I do not why but I every time thought that Cr. tournefortii have only white flowers. Our autumn crocuses began just a few days ago to flower. We have no so great collection of autumn crocuses but Cr. biflorus ssp. melantherus and Cr. goulimyi `Mani White` are ones I like the most.
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and Cr. goulimyi `Mani White` and Cr. goulimyi var. leucanthus.
Cheers Igor.
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Wonderful display Igor !!
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A few of my Autumn Crocus
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Luc, Igor Jim - a feast for a crocus starved enthusiast stuck at work on a beautiful, sunny autumn Sunday. Thanks!
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Tony I agree some super pictures and a delight to see.
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Here is what is supposed to be Crocus cancellatus ssp damascenus, with very particular curved anthers.
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What a joy to see the abundance of marvelous new autuum crocus flowers :o 8)
Janis, thank you. Guess chromosome sets are too different.
McMark, nice clumps of C. asumaniae and C. sativus.
Anthony, congratulation with the successful propagation of the breathtaking cv. C. mathewii 'Dream Dancer'.
Luc, fine collection! Like your picture of C. asumaniae. Hope my C. cartwrightianus will flower like yours.
Jim, nice to see your C. caspius and C. longiflorus ! Lovely ones.
Igor, mouthwatering mass display of C. goulimiy 'Mani White' and beautiful C. biflorus ssp. melantherus
Fred, certainly something special...
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and now what is supposed to be Crocus cancellatus ssp cancellatus, from Lebanon
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It's a breathtaking flower Fred !! Marvelous ! :o :o
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Fantastic show everyone puts my puny efforts in the shade
Here are a couple flowering at present. First a gift from a generous friend C assumaniae (thanks Tony W) and here the camera does not do the plant justice and C speciosus Aino where the camera makes the colours better than life
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I become more and more puzzled by crocuses with every batch of photos I see.
Why is C. biflorus pulchricolor NOT C. b. pul, because it has no in the throat, so it must be C. b. alexandri, yet Janis shows C. cancellatus with no yellow in the throat, and others WITH yellow in the throat. Apparently it is variation in that case, but why not with the others? I wouldn't dream of arguing with Thomas or anyone else about IDs of crocuses, but you must forgive me for being perpetually puzzled. ??? ::) ???
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Lovely warm October sunshine has opened Crocus serotinus ssp clusii today.
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Lovely warm October sunshine has opened Crocus serotinus ssp clusii today.
A very nice form Melvyn.
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Thanks Tony and thank you too for your very informative talk at Woking last Thursday.
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Fantastic show everyone.
Crocus speciosus in my garden. It like not much the meadow
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The first entry for today - Crocuses with "purple heart" pictured some hours ago when bright sun warmed up air in greenhouse. Tomorrow will come cold north air and first snow offered.
As the first I enter seedling of Crocus hadriaticus. May be not very bright, but I like its strong lines and delicate cool color.
Crocus cancellatus mazziaricus is very variable and sometimes only corm tunic allow to separate some forms from C. mathewii. It is not the brightest throat, but single one which now blooms.
Crocus cartwrightianus Purple Heart is very close by appearance to C. mathewii
And last for this entry - excellent form of Crocus mathewii.
Janis
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One sorry nudiflorus, the only survivor in a clump that was ravaged by mice last summer. Also kotschyanus.
johnw
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Now again some of Crocus cancellatus showing its variability. May be some forms were shown earlier, but those all pictures are from today.
Crocus cancellatus cancellatus in my stock is very uniform, varies only outside color - some are striped, some lighter and some even quite uniformly purple.
Crocus cancellatus subsp. lycius is so uniform, that now I would like to regard it as species. It has most branched stigma usually curved between anthers.
Crocus cancellatus subsp. pamphylicus is quite variable by flower color, but allways has white anthers.
Last two entries are not precisely identified at present (hadn't time).
Crocus cancellatus subsp. mazziaricus you can see in previous entry - it is very variable in color and in branching of stigma, some samples has almost triffid style.
Janis
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In this entry 3 different stocks of Crocus laevigatus from Crete. All three I got from late Jim Archibald and each are different. Most surprised was by form from Omalos plain which yesterday was still in bud and looked nicely creamy yellow. Yellow shade you can see on bud below open flower.
Another 4 are Crocus kotschyanus forms. The best is from Erich Pasche (HKEP) - this one has deepest colored throat and forms leaves in autumn, quite soon after flowering ends.
JJJ-007 is very variable - from almost white (but striped) till quite deep lilac (will bloom later).
Janis
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A few crocus in the greenhouse yesterday
Nice dark style and stigma in this C banaticus ex Norman Stevens
Crocus speciosus ilgazensis same source
and Crocus salzmanii clusii, grown from seed, I'm very very sad this seems to be showing signs of virus do the 'nuts agree? :-[
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Dirk, it seems that some of your mathewii have a yellow throat??? Unusual.
Hagen, sorry for my late answer, i come back yesterday from my holiday
in Turkey. In the Taurusmountains 3°C, rain mixed with snow and never see a Crocus.
This Crocus mathewii is only outside a little bit yellow, inside pure white.
Janis, your seedling from Cr.hadriaticus is a fine thing.
Here a pic from Manavgat, especially for Ibrahim. You are a very important person? ::)
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Interesting to see all the variation in crocus species but I do not have the time or space to collect many varieties so I will enjoy the from postings on the forum.
Only two crocuses flowering here
Crocus pulchellus which flowers over a long period and from a few seeds or small corms in used potting compost is spreading over the whole garden
Crocus kotschyanus in pots. The flowers appeared before I had managed to water them ,but I got my daughter to do it yesterday so the others should appear soon
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Another exquisite Crocus day on the forum !!
Thanks Janis, Diane, Roma, John, Franz and Melvyn for putting up this wonderful show ! 8)
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As the first I enter seedling of Crocus hadriaticus. May be not very bright, but I like its strong lines and delicate cool color.
Janis
Janis - a very attractive flower but it seems to have white anthers. Is this just the photograph?
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A few crocus in the greenhouse yesterday
Nice dark style and stigma in this C banaticus ex Norman Stevens
Crocus speciosus ilgazensis same source
and Crocus salzmanii clusii, grown from seed, I'm very very sad this seems to be showing signs of virus do the 'nuts agree? :-[
Diane, keep this clusii isolated - may be all will be OK, only two fl. segments is suspicious, but it can be machanical damage, too as other petals seem to be completely healthy. If next autumn symptoms will repeat - then... :'(
Janis
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As the first I enter seedling of Crocus hadriaticus. May be not very bright, but I like its strong lines and delicate cool color.
Janis
Janis - a very attractive flower but it seems to have white anthers. Is this just the photograph?
Anthers are creamy white. It surprises me, too. It is the first plant blooming from this seedling portion. Although my stock grown under name 'Tom Blanchard' has creamy yellow anthers, of course darker than on this specimen. Will see what will show other seedlings from same pot if they will bloom.
Janis
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Yesterday I was too tired to post other pictures. Today is cold rain and just finished minor hail, so no more flowers expected today. I'm posting few which left from yesterday.
This C. niveus attached my attention by its bicolored color contrast between outer and inner segments.
Another flower from Crocus ochroleucus from Israel. Flowers are very small, but corms were small, too, so I'm really surprised and happy for their blooming.
Crocus pulchellus has several albino forms, too. The brightest throat is in cv. 'Michael Hoog' selected in Hoog's nursery and distributed by Antoine Hoog. My own selection has lighter yellow throat but its petals are wider and more rounded.
As the last in this entry - Crocus robertianus albus.
Janis
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In this entry several Crocus speciosus forms
cv. 'Cloudy Sky' is selected by Zhirair from material collected wild in Armenia. As all Caucasian speciosus - it has large flowers. Larger flowers I observed only in some old Dutch cultivars and on specimens from Crimea.
Then follows two acquisitions from Iran. They are something intermediate between subsp. ilgazensis and subsp. xantholaimos. They are late blooming (as xantholaimos, ilgazensis is very early). Throat is yellow but not so deep as in xantholaimos (on next picture), but stigmatic branches very rarely slightly exceed anthers which makes it closer to subsp. ilgazensis.
And as last picture - how will look my coming book. Its front cover picture appeared on Timber Press home-page. It will be available from 5th of January (personal information from Timber Press).
Janis
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Diane, keep this clusii isolated - may be all will be OK, only two fl. segments is suspicious, but it can be machanical damage, too as other petals seem to be completely healthy. If next autumn symptoms will repeat - then... :'(
Janis
Thanks very much for this advice, Janis, I'll pull it out of the pot and keep checking
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Janis, have truly enjoyed your succession of beautiful crocus, I can see why you are so specially interested in them. Congratulations on your book too, it looks to be a "must have" book for any serious bulb lover, I can't wait to see it.
On that note, I post two photos of C. sativus, as it was looking particularly fine, one photo while shaded from a bush and a photo back-lit from the sun. I was working on extending a flower bed, about 6 meters from the Crocus planting, and I could smell this crocus' sweet perfume from that far away! Sunny and warm that day, to amplify the perfume.
From wikipedia, an in depth discussion on saffron, very interesting!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron
Here's a quote from it:
"C. sativus thrives in the Mediterranean maquis, the North American chaparral, and like climates where hot, dry summer breezes sweep semi-arid lands. It can nonetheless survive cold winters by tolerating frosts as low as −10 °C (14 °F) and short periods of snow cover."
I think C. sativus is much more winter hardy than 14 °F, as I've had mine for about 8 years. It is VERY SLOW to get going and increase, but once established it appears to be one of the more reliable of the autumn crocus for this climate in northeastern USA.
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On that note, I post two photos of C. sativus, as it was looking particularly fine, one photo while shaded from a bush and a photo back-lit from the sun. I was working on extending a flower bed, about 6 meters from the Crocus planting, and I could smell this crocus' sweet perfume from that far away! Sunny and warm that day, to amplify the perfume.
I think C. sativus is much more winter hardy than 14 °F, as I've had mine for about 8 years. It is VERY SLOW to get going and increase, but once established it appears to be one of the more reliable of the autumn crocus for this climate in northeastern USA.
Thanks for nice words. Unfortunately Crocus sativus here is growing (only in pots) but even left in hot greenhouse during summer it never flowered with me. Seem to be too "cold" in summer, may be other factors involved, too.
Janis
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I have read somewhere, maybe B. Mathew's book that planting the C. sativus corms deep improves their growth.
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Janis, congratulations on the book. I recon everybody has their mouths wet waiting for it to be released.
Here are some crocus enjoying the last warm days
1. The palest form of Crocus kotchianus I have
2. Crocus kotchianus
3.4. Crocus kotchianus leucopharynx (I think) received as C.golimii
5. Crocus speciosus
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I'm growing Crocus sativus since many many years, about 5-6 cm deep and we had -18°C for several days.
Corms increase well and I collect lot of saffron every year.
They're just begining to flower .
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Crocus wattiorum in flower today. The second picture is when it has opened wide in full sun and shows its black stamens and red stigma which are characteristic of it.
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Absolutely brilliant Tony !! :o :o
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Thank you all for these fine crocus pics. They are a feast for the eyes. But Janis, your Crocus niveus PELOPONES is an eyecatcher. I like the soft blue on the outer segments. I hope it is the truth. ;).
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Beautiful Tony. Well grown.
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C. wattiorum is gorgeous Tony !
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thanks all it is a little gem
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Dirk, so now you have seen how I am famous ;) ;)
I am sorry about your unlucky crocus trip. That cold and snowy temperature was unexpected for this time of year. I think the full autumn crocus season is not started yet for that region!. Even in my garden I have only a few C. speciosus and C. pallasii in flower yet.
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Few pictures from yesterdays afternoon when again sky cleared and bright sun warmed up greenhouse. May be some stocks were shown before, too, but those are new flowers.
At first two Crocus cancellatus stocks
Then Crocus cartwrightianus from Antoine Hoog
Just started to bloom Crocus nerimaniae which I got this autumn from Archibald. My own stocks only started to show noses out of soil. I suppose that difference is caused by warmer climate in Wales which develops bulbs, flowers quicker than it happens here. I very wait blooming of my stock, as I collected few corms when they were out of flowers but the plants on this locality turned heavily virus infected.
Crocus robertianus albus nicely opened in sun showing its marvellous bright orange-yellow throat.
Crocus speciosus BLUE WEB now is in full bloom. Marvellous selection of Leonid Bondarenko.
An as last of this entry - Crocus thomasii from Apulia in Italy.
On next entry, later today again will be various C. pallasii. Now I'm going to finish replanting of bulbs. Hope today, certainly tomorrow.
Janis
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Again several Crocus pallasii stocks.
Janis
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Another portion of Crocus pallasii stocks.
On the first picture is pot with open pollinated seedlings from Crocus pallasii which originally was collected E of Bozkir. The right plant looks very similar to C. mathewii, but Bozkir is located far to East from Crocus mathewii localities. The seeds are from open pollinated plants in my nursery, so I suppose that it is hybrid with C.mathewii made by some bee, confirming that both species are very close.
Janis
Sorry, if some stocks were shown before.
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Here is Crocus mathewii 'Dream Dancer' looking good on my window sill.
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Here is Crocus mathewii 'Dream Dancer' looking good on my window sill.
oh my! :o :o :o
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Not to mention Wow, and Oh Golly! ;D
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Not to mention Wow, and Oh Golly! ;D
Oh yeah, I forgot those ;D
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Here is Crocus mathewii 'Dream Dancer' looking good on my window sill.
Superb!!!!
My still not started, but I have only 1 corm, yet.
Janis
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Congratulation Anthony 8) 8) 8) ;D
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'Dream Dancer' is superb! given me a treat for the day and the BD is walking around with happy smile on his face, too! Isn't Crocus season wonderful ?! 8)
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Not to mention Wow, and Oh Golly! ;D
I got half a dozen seeds last season. Now, what did I do with them? ::)
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Anthony a wonderful pot of flowers thanks for showing them.
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Bravo Anthony ! They look glorious !
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very very nice pot Anthony, and nice pics too Janis !
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Not to mention Wow, and Oh Golly! ;D
I got half a dozen seeds last season. Now, what did I do with them? ::)
Saw them as soon as possible. Earlier sawn, better germination.
Janis
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Yesterday afternoon again some sun shined and warmed up air in greenhouse, so new Crocus pictures were made.
Now will start with Crocus goulimyi.
On the first is bicolored form found by me on Peloponnese, I named it New Harlequin. Last autumn color contrast was more expressed.
Next shows unusually uniformly colored and the darkest of goulimyi found by me on Peloponnese. Flower is mechanically damaged, it is not virus.
The third is most unusual - one of most pinkish colored crocuses found by my stepdaughter on Peloponnese, I named it Pink Wonder
Then two pictures of Crocus longiflorus from Sicily, flower was of so perfect color and form, that I put two pictures of it on forum.
Crocus niveus in trade usually are represented by slightly bluish form. Here two purest white, the second well increases ans is multiplied in my nursery as clone.
May be you tired from my endless C. cancellatus and pallasii pictures, but this one pallasii seedling is so beautiful...
And as last Crocus serotinus salzmannii with very large, rounded flowers which I got from Zhirair, who received it from UK. I like its speckled back of petals, but most important is that this clone is virus-free - quite rare nowdays between salzmannii.
Janis
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In this entry I will start with two white Crocus cancellatus from different subspecies. In the first picture subspecies mazziaricus. Give attention to stigmatic branches. Stigma well overtops anthers and is moderately branched, sometimes in subsp. mazziaricus even minutely branched.
Subsp. lycius allways is white, very rarely striped on back (as you can see on second picture) but stigma is very branched but rarely and only slightly exceed anthers.
Crocus assumaniae can varies by color and flower segments form, I mostly like its white form.
Janis
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One of the most beautiful autumn crocuses undoubtedly is Crocus mathewii. It is quite variable crocus. Between best forms are 'Dream Dancer' (it seems that my plant will not flower this season) and 'Brian Mathew' with very prominent dark throat and dark purple flower tube. Problem is that it is very slow increaser vegetatively. Another, very similar by color, but with pointed flower segments and very good increaser was selected by me (JATU-020).
Following is another C. mathewii acquisition (JATU-018) and
two forms of Crocus thomasii, the second from Apulia in Italy.
As last crocus in this entry - the first blooming of Crocus aleppicus, got from Israel only this summer.
At very end - two pictures of autumn blooming crocus pots in my greenhouse. Pots without flowers on left side are with spring blooming crocuses
Janis
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janis, a wonderful collection you have in cultivation....
i like the c. mathewii....
have a nice weekend
cheers
chris
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What an amazing sight. I would love to be in your greenhouse soaking in that sight 8)
Angie :)
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SIMPLY STUNING JANIS ;)
I just wouldn't like to have to repot in your greenhouse ;D
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SIMPLY STUNING JANIS ;)
I just wouldn't like to have to repot in your greenhouse ;D
I only yesterday finished, of course, not crocuses, last this year were juno irises. It took all my time since June, with 2 week break for packing of orders and one week for fever (autumn virus). This morning all is white, road very slippery (I still have summer resin on my car), temperature outside minus 4 C, but some sun shines through clouds, so hope to make some new pictures of crocuses this afternoon.
Janis
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Truly wonderful pictures Janis !!
The view in your greenhouse is one to behold for all croconuts !
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Some Crocus from the greenhouse today - C. mathewi and a late-flowering clone of C. gilanicus.
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Thank you all for these fine crocus pics.
Self seedlings of Crocus goulimyi in my meadow
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Weather outside is very cold and only very short moments with sunshine lightened day, so very few new pictures.
One of the latest Crocus speciosus forms from Iran. Note low position of stigma - it ends well below tips of anthers.
Greatest surprise for today - multipetalled C. laevigatus specimen from Tripoli. Unfortunately it isn't permanent feature and most possibly next years the flower again will be with normal 6 flower segments.
Crocus cancellatus pamphylicus is the easiest to determine - by its white anthers. By samples which I have, it isn't very variable.
Very large flowers has this form of Crocus cancellatus mazziaricus from Greece.
And as last today - the brightest white Crocus cancellatus in my collection from Turkey.
Janis
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A quick question if i may - I've just noticed that Crocus aerius, which i'm growing for the first time this season, has a nose at soil level. Is this normal for this Spring-flowering sp. or is it growing early for some reason?
Alex
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Two crocus sieberi which have self seeded have different coloured stems, is this normal?
Mike
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And as last Crocus serotinus salzmannii with very large, rounded flowers which I got from Zhirair, who received it from UK. I like its speckled back of petals, but most important is that this clone is virus-free - quite rare nowdays between salzmannii.
Janis
Pleased, to know that this crocus serotinus salmanii vigorousf orm is alive in your collection. I sent it few years ago, but never noticed you showing its photo. I had several corcus serotinus salzmanii forms, but got rid of all of them, only leaving this clone because of its good garden marits and vigorous habit.
Your crocus pictures are stunning as always. Especially was intrigued by pinkish form of crocus goulimyi.
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Two crocus sieberi which have self seeded have different coloured stems, is this normal?
Mike
I think your Crocus are speciosus rather than sieberi, Mike.
Yes, the tubes can be quite different colours in different forms. Have a look at the recent International Rock Gardener http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Oct071286445910IRG9September2010.pdf
to see some examples ( as well as elsewhere in this thread, of course!)
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Maggi,
your post reminded me of a question, that I wanted to ask earlier, but always forgot.
Who can explane to me why it is Crocus speciosus subsp. archibaldii and not artschibaldii.
As far as I know, according to International rules, plant names are written in Latin by the rules of Latin grammer. In Latin the letter combination /ch/ is a different sound, not present in English. I noticed this thing in number of new plant namings and I think it can cause misanderstanding and confusion among readers, because the same letter combination /ch/ has different pronunciation in different European languages as in English, French, German, Dutch ets. That is why the Latin is used.
And I also know that the sounds which are not present in Latin languages, are adopted from some European languages and agreed internationally. For exmaple,
English /ch/ in Latin is expressed /cz/ or /tsch/ (mostly in names);
English /sh/ - as /sch/ or rarely /sh/
French /j/ - as /zh/
German /z/ - as /tc/ or /tz/, or /c/, when it is preceded by (i), (e), (y).
The same is for corydalis ruksansii; why not rukschansii?
I think it is a serious matter.
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If you want a word to sound "sch" then write "sch" not "s". Lichen is pronounced 'liken'; algae has a hard 'g'; colchicum is pronounced as in chicken in this country; ruksansii (after Jānis Rukāns) would have the 's' pronounced as in "sand", not shand or schand as in school i.e. skool, but then maybe that's not how Jānis pronouces it?). Don't try and find any logic in English pronunciation. Latin vowels should be simple - there are only five sounds - but I hear people singing the word "miserere" and each "e" is pronounced differently (miss -er-rare-ray), which is wrong. It should be miss-eh-reh-reh with the 'e' as in "get". Trying to 'Latinise' words just ends up with gobbledegook so it is best to read the word as it is pronounced in its original language and then just add the Latin ending. Mathewii is not Mat- hewii.
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Locals here persist in talking of Ranunculus lie-alley-eye rather than R. lyall-ee-eye. Likewise Celmisia traverse-ee-eye. The men's names were Lyall and Travers, for heaven's sake!
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If you want a word to sound "sch" then write "sch" not "s". Lichen is pronounced 'liken'; algae has a hard 'g'; colchicum is pronounced as in chicken in this country; ruksansii (after Jānis Rukāns) would have the 's' pronounced as in "sand", not shand or schand as in school i.e. skool, but then maybe that's not how Jānis pronouces it?). Don't try and find any logic in English pronunciation. Latin vowels should be simple - there are only five sounds - but I hear people singing the word "miserere" and each "e" is pronounced differently (miss -er-rare-ray), which is wrong. It should be miss-eh-reh-reh with the 'e' as in "get". Trying to 'Latinise' words just ends up with gobbledegook so it is best to read the word as it is pronounced in its original language and then just add the Latin ending. Mathewii is not Mat- hewii.
If to spell by pronunciation - my name would be Jaanis Rukschaans (two aa means longer a). For me it isn't easy allways understand latin names pronounced by british people, allways it takes some time to think how it could be spelled and then light comes...
Janis
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When a plant is named for a person, then the spelling reflects ( mostly!!) the way the person's named was spelled.
We hit a further confusion with ruksansii because, as Janis says, his name is spoken Jaanis Rukschaans.... so we say rukschansii for the plant but the spelling is without the ch!
All very confusing, I agree!
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Maggi,
Yes, all is very comfusing, that's what I mean. But we, by ourselves, make it confusing. We were touhgt Latin in school and it helps me to read and pronounce Latin names correctly. Yes I know, that if a plant is named for a peson the spelling is the way the person's name was spelled in his own language if it has Latin alpahbet. But, as far as I know, it replies to cultivar names, not species and genera names. For example, crocus scharojanii is spelled with Latin rules, while this name is usually spelled and appears in print as Sharoyan. So all is done according to the rules, easy and clear, no confusion.
People can read and pronounce Latin words the way they want, and the reason for this, in my opinion, is breaking the rules that we do very often.
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For those who are interested, I think Botanical Latin by W.T. Stearn remains the standard work in English. 'Names' are discussed in chapter 20 - far too long & detailed to summarise here.
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Maggi
I must have been having a very senior moment when I typed sieberi instead of speciosus. Will try harder. Now why does that sounds familiar.
Mike
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A quick question if i may - I've just noticed that Crocus aerius, which i'm growing for the first time this season, has a nose at soil level. Is this normal for this Spring-flowering sp. or is it growing early for some reason?
Alex
Alex
although I do not grow Crocus aerius I have looked at other species. Some already have the noses showing and others do not even in the same species,or pot,C. chrysanthus or pelistericus for example. I have noticed this many times and always worry that those not showing early have rotted(sometimes they have) but on the whole it is just natural variation.The ones that show early seem to sit there until the correct flowering time. Could this be a basis for splitting into ssp!!
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A quick question if i may - I've just noticed that Crocus aerius, which i'm growing for the first time this season, has a nose at soil level. Is this normal for this Spring-flowering sp. or is it growing early for some reason?
Alex
Here you can see pots of two spring flowering crocus species from Italy, pictured today. C. aerius show nothing out of soil with me (various stocks).
Janis
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Few crocuses from today
At first Crocus aleppicus in warm air of greenhouse nicely opened its flower.
Crocus ochroleucus from same region - this time stock originally was collected by Wallis, I got it from Jim.
Crocus banaticus First Snow now are in full flower and soon will end blooming. The cv. 'Snowdrift' only shows noses out of soil.
First flower of Crocus melantherus opened today, this specimen has yellow anthers. It is quite common in this species. There are populations where black anthered plants dominate but in others dominates yellow anthered specimens.
Janis
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Thank you Tony & Janis, very useful.
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a sunny sunday today, some new Crocus in flower:
Cr.boryi x tournefortii from Tony G.
hadriaticus f.lilacinus
caspius
hadriaticus x sativus`Cashmerianus`, F2 cross
cancellatus ssp.pamphylicus, white form
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a sunny sunday today, some new Crocus in flower:
Cr.boryi x tournefortii from Tony G.
hadriaticus f.lilacinus
caspius
hadriaticus x sativus`Cashmerianus`, F2 cross
cancellatus ssp.pamphylicus, white form
Nice selection Dirk .Maybe they asked you before but do you always use plastic pots instead of claypots for your Crocus ?
I see Janis using also the plastic ones while others use claypots.What is the advantage ?
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Dirk, I like both hybrids very much! Very special indeed.
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Nice selection Dirk .Maybe they asked you before but do you always use plastic pots instead of claypots for your Crocus ?
I see Janis using also the plastic ones while others use claypots.What is the advantage ?
[/quote]
Two advantages - 1/ more economical space use
2/ clay pots here often split during heavy winter frosts
There is minus, too - not so easy to check soil moisture
Janis
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hadriaticus x sativus`Cashmerianus`, F2 cross
Dirk, I'm afraid that it isn't possible to cross C. hadriaticus with sativus cashmirianus. I have only sativus, but it never bloomed with me. But between my C. hadriaticus seedlings (open pollinated) are very similar plants - see picture.
Janis
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Few more pictures made today:
Surprisingly, but still are blooming Crocus vallicola, it is the latest blooming stock. All others are away.
Two different stocks of Crocus robertianus - light blue and pure white
In full bloom now are Crocus pulchellus white form 'Michael Hoog'
More and more blooms C. longiflorus, here plants from Antoine Hoog.
and in this entry last common view of Crocus pulchellus (in front) and C. speciosus pots.
Janis
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I also use plastic pots for bulbs in the frame, the main advantage for me is that they are... square pots : it saves space !
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Last pictures from today
Crocus boryi - there are many stocks, but all very similar in flower, different are blooming time. The earliest stocks are at end of blooming, latest still didn't started.
Today started to bloom Crocus caspius.
Unusually late this form of C. gilanicus. Really it didn't belong to my favourite species, flowers are small, pale, I think one of less beautiful autumn crocuses.
Today nicely opened C. goulimyi white form (not cv. 'Mani White'). This one I got from Brian Mathew.
Surprisingly large flowers were formed by this stock of Crocus cancellatus mazziaricus received from Gothenburg BG - flower diameter today reached 14(!) cm!!! :D
And last - common view of pots with Crocus cancellatus
Janis
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hadriaticus x sativus`Cashmerianus`, F2 cross
Dirk, I'm afraid that it isn't possible to cross C. hadriaticus with sativus cashmirianus. I have only sativus, but it never bloomed with me. But between my C. hadriaticus seedlings (open pollinated) are very similar plants - see picture.
Janis
Although C. sativus is intraspecifically infertile it will produce seed when pollinated by other saffron crocus as I observed on my own plants some years ago. At the time the only other saffron crocus I had were C. asumaniae, C. cartwrightianus & C. hadriaticus but I do not know from which the pollen came. Unfortunately, just after making the observation I had a minor stroke & so never got around to sowing the seed.
I remember reading somewhere that C. sativus is readily pollinated by C. thomasii; although I now grow this plant I no longer have C. sativus so have never tried it for myself.
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I remember reading somewhere that C. sativus is readily pollinated by C. thomasii; although I now grow this plant I no longer have C. sativus so have never tried it for myself.
Oh, I have both species growing and flowering together within 40 cm of each other! Had no idea that they could cross. In spite of heavy flowering on sativus each year, I have never gotten seed set on it.
Janis, I think I shall be revisiting this thread over and over again once the gloomy winter weather comes, to cheer me up and feast my eyes, never have I seen so many glorious Crocus!
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Today sun shined very shortly, so not many newcomers between my crocuses.
At first Crocus ligusticus (known as medius, too) from Italy. Flowers remained only half open.
Yesterday I showed Crocus melantherus with yellow anthers. Today some more came up but remained only slightly opened, so I'm showing two major types of petals outside coloring. Plant with striped back has black anthers, but it was too closed to picture inside.
Today started to flower the best Crocus pallasii form known by me named 'Homeri' in Gothenburg BG
Crocus robertianus is blooming quite long but today started to flower stock from Antoine Hoog with deeper blue flowers. I never before saw so deeply colored flowers in this species.
And as last is Crocus tournefortii collected in Greece on Cyclades by Arnis and kindly presented to me this autumn. My own tournefortii stocks still only show noses out of soil.
Janis
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Janis I agree this one is the best pallasii with black anthers and dark throath :o
And it has quite longer style than standart pallasii! is there any mixinig with cartwrightianus?
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Janis I agree this one is the best pallasii with black anthers and dark throath :o
And it has quite longer style than standart pallasii! is there any mixinig with cartwrightianus?
Last autumn I carefully checked all features and it seem to be pure pallasii.
Janis
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hadriaticus x sativus`Cashmerianus`, F2 cross
Dirk, I'm afraid that it isn't possible to cross C. hadriaticus with sativus cashmirianus. I have only sativus, but it never bloomed with me. But between my C. hadriaticus seedlings (open pollinated) are very similar plants - see picture.
Janis
Janis,i pollinated in autumn 2002 a Cr.hadriaticus CRO 466 with pollen of Cr.sativus 'Cashmerianus'. From these seeds originated
the F1 crossroad with small blue blossoms. The plants were fertile and in the following F2 generation bigger white and blue flowers came out. Now I am strained on them F3.
Cr.hadriaticus x sativus `Cashmerianus`F1
`` F2 blue form,from last autumn and with seed this spring
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hadriaticus x sativus`Cashmerianus`, F2 cross
Dirk, I'm afraid that it isn't possible to cross C. hadriaticus with sativus cashmirianus. I have only sativus, but it never bloomed with me. But between my C. hadriaticus seedlings (open pollinated) are very similar plants - see picture.
Janis
Janis,i pollinated in autumn 2002 a Cr.hadriaticus CRO 466 with pollen of Cr.sativus 'Cashmerianus'. From these seeds originated
the F1 crossroad with small blue blossoms. The plants were fertile and in the following F2 generation bigger white and blue flowers came out. Now I am strained on them F3.
Cr.hadriaticus x sativus `Cashmerianus`F1
`` F2 blue form,from last autumn and with seed this spring
F-2 is very nice for its white anthers.
Janis
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Stunning Crocus everyone ! :o :o
My modest autumn Crocus season is running to its end.
Here are 2 Crocus flowering with me at the moment, Janis might recognize them... ;D
Pix 1 to 4 : Crocus niveus - a blue form witch actually is bi-coloured with white inner and lilac/blue outer petals.
The flowers are quite big !
Pix 5 to 7 : Crocus biflorus melantherus - I love all the black anthered forms !!! 8)
... and it smells heavely !
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Very nice photos Luc. The colours of C. niveus are captured really well - much better than I can manage.
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Very nice indeed Luc.
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Crocus robertianus
From JJA seed (351.000); Greece, Ioanina, W of Metsovo to Ioanina, 600m, leafsoil at base of Quercus & Ostrya scrub,
10 seeds sown Dec 2006, 1 germinated Jan 2008. This the result - first flowering. Although germination was very poor flowering size was attained relatively quickly.
I dont find C. robertianus particularly easy to grow so I hope I see this plant again.
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Got back today from Crete, bulbs definitely are late to bloom this year due to a boiling summer.
The only Crocus i have seen was this nice colony of C. tournefortii with fine color,
they grow in full shade on and underneath a north facing wall.
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Oron - those are very handsome specimens of C. tournefortii - perhaps the best I have ever seen. Many thanks for posting.
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Superb pictures Oron... and we can see that you where in full shade ;)
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Gerry,
your patience to wait so long for germination paid off! At last you got a single beautiful one! :D
This reminds me not to empty baskets containing seed showing 'no life' too early.
Oron,
a nice clump! A very attractive crocus species.
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Wonderful colony Oron -superb tournefortii ! :o
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A few crocus from Norwich before we take a half-term break.
Starting with Crocus tournefortii in the garden where it has survived years of neglect. Nice to see your pictures from the wild Oron but you must have wished the summer had ended sooner :P
Crocus biflorus melantherus - nice large flowered form. As has been commented on already the crocus are making good flowers, often large this year.
Crocus goulimyi - seedlings raised from true ssp leucanthus. All appear hybrid with ssp goulimyi. After early success in raising them from seed all the latest lot are shades of (often pale) blue. Next year I will keep the ssp leucanthus apart from the ssp goulimyi in the hope of getting true bred seed. Too late this year they are rooting through the pots into the sand already. Crocus goulimyi make very strong, deep growing roots. One seedling appears a mutant dwarf. Don't know if it will repeat this next year (don't want it to either!), doubt it will.
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Very nice finding Oron!
It seems that we will have also a boiling winter here ::)
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Crocus goulimyi - seedlings raised from true ssp leucanthus. All appear hybrid with ssp goulimyi. After early success in raising them from seed all the latest lot are shades of (often pale) blue. Next year I will keep the ssp leucanthus apart from the ssp goulimyi in the hope of getting true bred seed. Too late this year they are rooting through the pots into the sand already. Crocus goulimyi make very strong, deep growing roots. One seedling appears a mutant dwarf. Don't know if it will repeat this next year (don't want it to either!), doubt it will.
Tony - I'm not convinced that ssp. leucanthus actually exists - I suspect it is just a colour & geographical variant of C. goulimyi. I have seed raised plants, supposedly from a Steve Keeble collection made at the type locality, which, apart from colour (pure white), are indistinguishable from the common form of C. goulimyi & from a bicolour form of C. goulimyi I received some years ago from Kath Dryden as ssp. leucanthus. Even in his crocus revision in 'The Plantsman', BM does not give any good reason for regarding ssp. leucanthus as distinct
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Those gloriously feathery styles of C. tournefortii are a joy at any time but to see them looking so good in Oron's habitat pix is beyond delightful.
I LOVE crocus season!
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Crocus goulimyi - seedlings raised from true ssp leucanthus. All appear hybrid with ssp goulimyi. After early success in raising them from seed all the latest lot are shades of (often pale) blue. Next year I will keep the ssp leucanthus apart from the ssp goulimyi in the hope of getting true bred seed. Too late this year they are rooting through the pots into the sand already. Crocus goulimyi make very strong, deep growing roots. One seedling appears a mutant dwarf. Don't know if it will repeat this next year (don't want it to either!), doubt it will.
Tony - I'm not convinced that ssp. leucanthus actually exists - I suspect it is just a colour & geographical variant of C. goulimyi. I have seed raised plants, supposedly from a Steve Keeble collection made at the type locality, which, apart from colour (pure white), are indistinguishable from the common form of C. goulimyi & from a bicolour form of C. goulimyi I received some years ago from Kath Dryden as ssp. leucanthus. Even in his crocus revision in 'The Plantsman', BM does not give any good reason for regarding ssp. leucanthus as distinct
Gerry I agree entirely .. just keep the names for conventions sake at present! I would like to be able to raise more of the very pale forms that occur in the wild. (I too have Steve Keeble seed raised plants)
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Crocus longiflorus is one of my favourites. I has delicate lilac flowers, sometimes feathered darker on the reverse and down the tube. The scent is one of the strongest for crocus, very sweet. I have grown it successfully in the garden in the past and plan to release some of these seedlings in the future. Two quite different forms here.
Crocus moabiticus is one of the rarest and very seldom grown. I am unsure about the plants I have which are in flower now. They have a good pedigree but are at leats 2nd generation in cultivation. It is possible the plants I grow are hybrids with another in the sativus group, perhaps crocus Cartwrightianus. They are very attractive, gradually expanding in size as they age. When I showed pictures in a lecture recently I expressed my doubts about their status, a wag at the back shouted out "if they're still alive they're ot moabiticus"! I'll leave it to the (other) experts to decide ;)
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Variation in Crocus pulchellus. Starting with a very nice seedling, strongly lined and with wispy tipped petals rather like Crocus vallicola. Then a couple of shots for comparison, the latter being a very large flowered seedling.
Crocus thomasii is quite variable, some plain coloured others quite veined.
Crocus boryi x tournefortii in this form (the one I gave Dirk a corm of a few years ago) is very close to Crocus boryi but increases well suggesting hybrid vigour.
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This is the best thread ever, so many exquisite autumn crocus to yearn for.
Gerry, the success of a singular pedigree Crocus robertianus is inspiring, and a lovely crocus it is.
Onon, I notice in the 2nd photo (and to some degree in the 4th photo) of C. tournefortii in Crete, the flower has fully erect styles instead of the usual hanging-out-sideways-bell-clapper arrangement; unique.
Tony, not only do you show choice Crocus, but ones that are artistically photographed, really enjoy such Croci-candy. I'm also intrigued by the prospect of interspecific hybrids, so many possibilities can be imagined in an active hybridization program. Are the hybrids you show naturally occurring hybrid seedlings, or are you making such crosses specifically? The C. tournefortii x boryi plants look most desirable, although I'm not so sure about the goulimyi mini-me!
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Oron - superb crocuses from Crete. I had just the same problem some years ago - found only one small population of tournefortii on N side of island. Certainly must go to Crete in November, then must be much more blooming plants.
Tony, don't think that this goulimyi is mutant. Most likely it is result of temperature or other environmental reasons which will disappear next season. I had this autumn few such plants between C. mathewii, too. I marked those plants, to check them next autumn.
Here is very dark, cloudy and rainy weather. Crocuses continue to come up but flowers stay closed, so during last few days no pictures I made. Hoped for sun today, as during night we had full moon - it was so light outside, that it was possible to read, but morning greeted with snowing and warning about heavy storm in afternoon, so I'm afraid that for me will be impossible to show you something new today.
Janis
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Crocus moabiticus is one of the rarest and very seldom grown. I am unsure about the plants I have which are in flower now. They have a good pedigree but are at lea ts 2nd generation in cultivation. It is possible the plants I grow are hybrids with another in the sativus group, perhaps crocus Cartwrightianus. They are very attractive, gradually expanding in size as they age. When I showed pictures in a lecture recently I expressed my doubts about their status, a wag at the back shouted out "if they're still alive they're not moabiticus"! I'll leave it to the (other) experts to decide ;)
Really I can't see any difference from true moabiticus. There are excellent pictures of it on John Lonsdale's garden website. It is described as leafless during flowering but Oron Peri in nature pictured forms without and with leaves at blooming time. It looks that in cultivation where more moisture available due more watering comparing with nature, it forms leaves during blooming. As usually I lost my plants and at present haven't it in my collection.
Janis
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Snowstorm came very soon and now all is covered with white. Used short moment when snowing was not very heavy to make some pictures. On the first you can see greenhouses from outside some minutes ago. Outside you can see beehives - my great helpers in pollination, although autumn crocuses here mostly are pollinated by bumblebees.
Next is my large polytunnell from inside, so shaded, that I used maximum sensitivity available for my camera. The same with Crocus house.
In crocus greenhouse all flowers are closed - single exception is C. cartwrightianus (pictured using flashlight). I'm not very keen in picturing with flashlight, so other forms turned of too poor quality, when I saw pictures on computers screen and so I can't show them now. Too unpleasant weather outside to go back. It is offered some sunny days next week, then I hope to show more pictures.
Sometimes closed flowers allows better to see variability - here you can see variability in Crocus aleppicus from Israel outside color (pictured using flashlight, so quality...).
On the last picture I tried to show the pot with Crocus hadriaticus seedlings. One of those flowers was showed on this entry earlier - with white anthers, this one at this moment is almost died and remnants you can see on right side, hided between leaves. Flowers from other seedlings came out much later (I even supposed that corms are too small to bloom - it is the first blooming of this pot) and you can see how great is difference, confirming that they are hybrids (made by bees). Picture is made without flashlight, using maximal sensitivity and maximal exposure usable without tripod and something improwed by Photoshop.
Janis
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hello janis,
wow, here only frost about -3°c, at moment sunny and the temps gone up over 0°c.
i hope the snow can wait a while here in germany ;)
have a nice day
cheers
chris
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Thank you all for the nice comments,
Crocus moabiticus is one of the rarest and very seldom grown. I am unsure about the plants I have which are in flower now. They have a good pedigree but are at leats 2nd generation in cultivation. It is possible the plants I grow are hybrids with another in the sativus group, perhaps crocus Cartwrightianus. They are very attractive, gradually expanding in size as they age. When I showed pictures in a lecture recently I expressed my doubts about their status, a wag at the back shouted out "if they're still alive they're ot moabiticus"! I'll leave it to the (other) experts to decide ;)
Tony,
I do not think your plant is C. moabiticus or at least not a pure one:
From my observations, leaves of C. moabiticus have a prominent white tip [ cloves like]almost thorny and quite stiff in contact.
Buds are golden outside [back of tepals] or golden with a few marked veins.
Back ground of petal's surface is generally white with different levels and intensity of purple veins.
Attached a photo of one of the darkest forms i have seen in the wild, as you can notice the background is quite white with wider veins but not purplish washed as in your plant.
I think your plant might be a hybrid with cartwrightianus.
The suggestion that 'if they are still alive they are not moabiticus' is not wrong, i find this species very difficult to grow, two more drops of water and they rot.
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Tony, not only do you show choice Crocus, but ones that are artistically photographed, really enjoy such Croci-candy. I'm also intrigued by the prospect of interspecific hybrids, so many possibilities can be imagined in an active hybridization program. Are the hybrids you show naturally occurring hybrid seedlings, or are you making such crosses specifically? The C. tournefortii x boryi plants look most desirable, although I'm not so sure about the goulimyi mini-me!
Thanks :)
Hybrids. Well I'd rather keep them pure species but in a collection like this its not easy. Interspecific hybrids - between different species are less common but do occur with closely related species. But then you have to ask if we have the species boundaries fully defined. After all the classification is just our way of trying to make sense of things. They do occur in the wild but not as often as in cultivation where we grow and flower a wide range at the same time and in the same place.
Intraspecific hybrids - between different forms of the same species are the most easily produced. Indeed growing arange of clones improves seed set hugely. The goulimyi appear to be ssp leucanthus x ssp goulimyi but as has been discussed before these two are very different to tell apart and might better be considered as forms of one taxa.
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Crocus moabiticus is one of the rarest and very seldom grown. I am unsure about the plants I have which are in flower now. They have a good pedigree but are at lea ts 2nd generation in cultivation. It is possible the plants I grow are hybrids with another in the sativus group, perhaps crocus Cartwrightianus. They are very attractive, gradually expanding in size as they age. When I showed pictures in a lecture recently I expressed my doubts about their status, a wag at the back shouted out "if they're still alive they're not moabiticus"! I'll leave it to the (other) experts to decide ;)
Really I can't see any difference from true moabiticus. There are excellent pictures of it on John Lonsdale's garden website. It is described as leafless during flowering but Oron Peri in nature pictured forms without and with leaves at blooming time. It looks that in cultivation where more moisture available due more watering comparing with nature, it forms leaves during blooming. As usually I lost my plants and at present haven't it in my collection.
Janis
My plants come from the same source as John Lonsdales. Indeed two corms he sent me. I think that they are likely hybrid. I once had seed of true plants, they took many years to die without ever being more than small corms :(
Oron thanks for your feedback. Lovely pics of the real thing!
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On my climate also the crocus season is started.
First is C. cancellatus subsp. damascenus From nort part of Göksun. This one has more slender petals.
Second one is C. kotschyanus subsp. cappadocicus. This one also I have recieved from same where without any selection when the leaves started to dry. But it is very nice feathered and unbelievable dark violet (much darker than the photos) it can be a contestant for climb to top.
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And my two different subsp. of pallasii. It is not easy to identify from flowers only turcicus has more thiny petals (also little wrinkle. I don't know if this is common for this subsp.)
But in spring it is very easy to identify, turcicus has few broad leaves while subsp. pallasii have many thiny leaves. These two pallasii subsp. I have recieved from Gaziantep.
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On my climate also the crocus season is started.
First is C. cancellatus subsp. damascenus From nort part of Göksun. This one has more slender petals.
Second one is C. kotschyanus subsp. cappadocicus. This one also I have recieved from same where without any selection when the leaves started to dry. But it is very nice feathered and unbelievable dark violet (much darker than the photos) it can be a contestant for climb to top.
VERY NICE DARK CAPPADOCICUS. I THIS AUTUMN MARKED ONE BETWEEN MY PLANTS, TOO, BUT YOURS DEFINITELY IS EVEN DARKER. AS YOU - I COLLECTED MY PLANTS IN DRY LEAVES AND NEVER BEFORE SAW ALL POPULATION IN BLOOMING TIME TO CHECK HOW GREAT IS VARIABILITY IN NATURE. WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS.
Janis
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The two Crocus cartwrightianus.
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Three of my Longiflorus and one Tournefortii flowering last few days.
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Great stuff from everybody. 8) If I only could grow them all outside ::) :)
Yesterday morning we had frost -2°C. I took some pictures in the morning and around noontime when we got sunshine for ~ 1 1/2 hours and +10°C.
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Got back today from Crete, bulbs definitely are late to bloom this year due to a boiling summer.
The only Crocus i have seen was this nice colony of C. tournefortii with fine color,
they grow in full shade on and underneath a north facing wall.
Sıtuatıon ın Turkey ıs very sımılar. Crocus and Galanthus peshmenıı are very dıffıcult to fınd.
Colchıcums aplenty and I wıll post some photos on my return - hopefully someone wıll be able to ıdentıfy them.
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Weather broadcast for today was some hours of sun. There were few lighter hours but sun didn't show its face, so only few crocuses slightly opened and very few pictures were maid. The first on this entry is blue form of Crocus robertianus. This year I got another stock even darker blue, but it is a little later and still buds were to closed.
Nicely blooms quite special form selected from open pollinated seedlings of Crocus hadriaticus, most likely hybrid. As on last picture ('Purple Heart'), I suppose that pollen parent most likely is C. cartwrightianus.
Crocus cartwrightianus as usually stay open even in such weather.
As last I'm showing picture of Crocus which is supposed to be hybrid between hadriaticus and cartwrightianus and named by it's breeder as PURPLE HEART. It was offered by Paul Christian as Dutch selection from Crocus niveus seedlings, but it is not true. Really it was selected by Antoine Hoog (France), who wrote me, that this marvellous plant appeared between his seedlings of Crocus hadriaticus, original stock of which he got from Holland under wrong name as niveus, but really it turned to be hadriaticus. As seeds were collected from open pollinated plants, pollen parent actually isn't known, but seem to be cartwrightianus.
Hope next week will be more sunny.
Janis
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Janis, your Crocus 'Purple Heart' is a fine plant.
Here some pics from today:
Cr.nerimaniae
cancellatus ssp.mazziaricus and the white form from this ssp.
caspius, i think, this is the species with the longest flowering time,
5-6 weeks and to 8 flowers from one large bulb is possibly
cartwrightianus 'Albus', a native form
medius Bignone, large flowers, set seeds, but seldom divide
medius Millesimo, later and smaller flowers, not seed, good divide
veneris
and Cr.longiflorus from Nebrodi Range, Sicily
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Cr.nerimaniae
cancellatus ssp.mazziaricus and the white form from this ssp.
caspius, i think, this is the species with the longest flowering time,
5-6 weeks and to 8 flowers from one large bulb is possibly
cartwrightianus 'Albus', a native form
medius Bignone, large flowers, set seeds, but seldom divide
medius Millesimo, later and smaller flowers, not seed, good divide
veneris
and Cr.longiflorus from Nebrodi Range, Sicily
My Crocus nerimaniae still is in buds. I collected it twice - at first in early summer by dry leaves and following autumn all blooming plants turned virus infected and I destroyed them. From the rest 5 plants made flowerbuds this autumn and 3 looked virus infected, 2 looks perfect. Today I dug out hose three. Another collection I made last autumn during flowering, when I noted that most of specimens in this population are virus infected in nature. Unfortunately it seems that C. nerimaniae belongs to species which don't like replanting at flowering time, as very few made leaves this spring. Seems that no one formed corm of flowering size as no one bud are formed in this stock.
Viruses are great problem. This autumn I picked out several pots with Crocus serotinus, goulimyi Mani White, pulchellus albus and few others marked as "V" (virus). There are no other way than to destroy stock as soon as possible.
I have Crocus caspius from several sources, one of stocks is nicely purest white, others with bluish flowers. I agree, that it is one of the best and longest blooming species - single fault - leaves soon overtops flowers, but beauty of this species well compensates this minus.
All my stock of 'Millesimo' turned virus infected and I destroyed it completely. Plants from mnt. Bignone nicely blooms and well set seeds. My stock is very small, so I can't judge at present how fast it is in splitting.
My C. veneris at present has only leaves, approximately half as long as yours, so I hope to flowering later.
My Crocus longiflorus from Nebrody in Sicily looks similar to yours, I showed pictures earlier. Now pots are covered with flower buds.
Next week is promissed more sunny than last days, so I hope to some more pictures because a lot of plants pushed out flower buds but lacking of temperature and light keeps flowers closed.
Janis
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As last I'm showing picture of Crocus which is supposed to be hybrid between hadriaticus and cartwrightianus and named by it's breeder as PURPLE HEART. It was offered by Paul Christian as Dutch selection from Crocus niveus seedlings, but it is not true. Really it was selected by Antoine Hoog, who wrote me, that this marvellous plant appeared between his seedlings of Crocus hadriaticus, original stock of which he got from Holland under wrong name as niveus, but really it turned to be hadriaticus. As seeds were collected from open pollinated plants, pollen parent actually isn't known, but seem to be cartwrightianus.
Hope next week will be more sunny.
Janis
'Purple Heart' is a very attractive, if unnatural, hybrid. I see that Paul Christian now lists it as a form of C. hadriaticus . However, the price is ridiculous, especially given the fact that most saffron crocus increase quite fast. At least the plant was not ripped up from the wild.
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Viruses are great problem. This autumn I picked out several pots with Crocus serotinus, goulimyi Mani White, pulchellus albus and few others marked as "V" (virus). There are no other way than to destroy stock as soon as possible.
I have Crocus caspius from several sources, one of stocks is nicely purest white, others with bluish flowers. I agree, that it is one of the best and longest blooming species - single fault - leaves soon overtops flowers, but beauty of this species well compensates this minus.
All my stock of 'Millesimo' turned virus infected and I destroyed it completely. Plants from mnt. Bignone nicely blooms and well set seeds. My stock is very small, so I can't judge at present how fast it is in splitting.
Janis
Janis, when I read in old Soviet literature that the smallest offsets from infected tulip bulbs, as a rule, are not succeptible to virus. I started my experiments testing this method. It proved to be effective, but not for the all tulip varieties. After that I started to test it with crocus. According to my tests, again, it is effective, but not for all species. I remember 5 years ago I received very nice crocus niveus pale lilac form, which turned out to be totally virused. As usual, I distroy and trash all infected corms, but this form of niveus was so nice that I decided to recover my stock by this method. I selected around 7 smallest corm-bills from its large bulbs and placed them in quarantine area. The following year 4 out of 7 didn't show the symptoms of leaf mosaic. I was pleased with the results, but decided to test them for two more years and put the plants under the stress as well to make sure that they are really healthy. But I didn't see any symtoms of virus on those specimens later. Now I proudly grow this nice crocus niveus from virus free.
I think this method is worth testing from your side as well, especially for very rare species, which are virus infected and there is no other source to get helthy stock of them.
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Viruses are great problem. This autumn I picked out several pots with Crocus serotinus, goulimyi Mani White, pulchellus albus and few others marked as "V" (virus). There are no other way than to destroy stock as soon as possible.
I have Crocus caspius from several sources, one of stocks is nicely purest white, others with bluish flowers. I agree, that it is one of the best and longest blooming species - single fault - leaves soon overtops flowers, but beauty of this species well compensates this minus.
All my stock of 'Millesimo' turned virus infected and I destroyed it completely. Plants from mnt. Bignone nicely blooms and well set seeds. My stock is very small, so I can't judge at present how fast it is in splitting.
Janis
Janis, when I read in old Soviet literature that the smallest offsets from infected tulip bulbs, as a rule, are not succeptible to virus. I started my experiments testing this method. It proved to be effective, but not for the all tulip varieties. After that I started to test it with crocus. According to my tests, again, it is effective, but not for all species. I remember 5 years ago I received very nice crocus niveus pale lilac form, which turned out to be totally virused. As usual, I distroy and trash all infected corms, but this form of niveus was so nice that I decided to recover my stock by this method. I selected around 7 smallest corm-bills from its large bulbs and placed them in quarantine area. The following year 4 out of 7 didn't show the symptoms of leaf mosaic. I was pleased with the results, but decided to test them for two more years and put the plants under the stress as well to make sure that they are really healthy. But I didn't see any symtoms of virus on those specimens later. Now I proudly grow this nice crocus niveus from virus free.
I think this method is worth testing from your side as well, especially for very rare species, which are virus infected and there is no other source to get helthy stock of them.
Really I don't think that it will help, but... may be...
Problem is that not every species makes small ofsets. Nerimaniae rarely split, although my experience is too short with it. The best in any case is propogation by seeds as seedlings usually are healthy.
Janis
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Some crocus from the weekend
Graeme Strachan
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And some more from today.
Graeme Strachan
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Nice series Graeme ! Your Crocus seem quite a bit later than mine - they're almost over out here !
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Sorry Graham, but your C. medius looks as though it may be virused - most stocks of this sp. are. Especially the flower on the left of the picture.
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Luc,
I think I am about half way through my flowering season. I have a large trough of kotschyanus that have yet to show their noses yet.
Gerry,
Sadly it looks as if you are right. I will have a closer inspection tomorrow.
regards
Graeme Strachan
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Dirk,
it is always a delight to see parts of your crocus collection. Like the potful C. caspius and C. longiflorus.
C. medius from Bignone is a fine clone, too.
Graeme,
nice autuum crocus. Like the C. cancellatus ssp. cancellatus. Mine in the garden don't flower this year - suppose didn't like the German wet summer and I'm afraid corms are rotted for the time being. But I don't want to lift the basket now in the hope still some leaves will appear - hope dies last. :-\
One of the easy garden autuum crocus spreading well are C. speciosus and C. pulchellus 'Zephyr'. A nice hybrid seedling flowering in my meadow.
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Graeme, your cancellatus should be subsp. mazziaricus to me!
Armin, you are not the alone! I also have same problems with wet conditions crocuses (C. scharojanii, C. vallicola, C. kotschyanus suworowianus ex..) and I have no chance to build green refrigerating :(
Your hybrid looks very nice!.
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After long break today we had nice sun in most part of day, with few showers in middle, but greenhouse crocuses marvellously showed their beauty. I made several hundreds of shots and now after some break can show you new pictures.
I will start with Crocus nerimaniae. As I wrote earlier - from 5 plants 3 turned virus infected but two fortunately seem to be healthy - both quite different.
Next is Crocus wattiorum although close and something similar to nerimaniae both are very easy separable as you can judge from attached picture.
Crocus aleppicus comes from Israel. This specimen has striped back of petals.
And last two pictures illustrates - never say never. Shortly ago I wrote that Crocus sativus is growing but never blooms with me. I don't know - hot summer or my words induced this plant to blooming, but here is its flower. From 5 corms collected in Iran, 3 alive and one for the first time in my crocus history made flower.
Janis
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The first of Crocus banaticus and the single one growable here in open garden is 'First Snow'. Now it is at end of blooming.
Another white Crocus banaticus was selected by Kath Dryden and later named as 'Snowdrift'. It is much later - you can see its pot today and the first open flower.
Following pictures are from Crocus cancellatus - at first subsp. lycius and after that different color forms of subsp. mazziaricus.
Janis
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In this entry only one species - Crocus cartwrightianus, but you can judge how variable it can be.
Janis
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The last entry for this evening, although there are many more pictures which I would like toi show you. At first Crocus robertianus - several shots showing variability of petal color - blue and white and throat color. On the last picture of C. robertianus - specimen something resembling f. tricolor of Crocus atticus. It confirms opinion that Crocus robertianus most likely derived from C. atticus.
Last two pictures - 2 color forms of Crocus thomasii from Apulia in Italia.
Others tomorrow.
Janis
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Today still will follow yesterdays pictures. It seem that day will be sunny, so more pictures will come.
In this entry again Crocus pallasii. There are some interesting plants.
Crocus pallasii subsp. haussknechtii is rarely seen. I collect my first true plants in Iran 2 years ago and this autumn is first flowering. As you can see that flowers has only 5 segments. May be corms still too small, may be this very hot summer still was too cold for this crocus.
Forms from Crimea in general finished blooming, but still some latecomers show their beauty.
Two forms from Turkey are quite similar (LST-050 comes from Sivrihisardag, RUDA-035 was collected nr. Gulnar)
One of the best Turkish I collected at Labranda when looked for Crocus nerimaniae. This one (single corm collected) looks as one of the best pallasii ever seen.
Of course - cv. 'Homeri' belongs to the Elite of crocuses.
Janis
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In this entry Crocus hadriaticus seedlings. It turned that that generally white in nature C. hadriaticus quite easy hybridises in cultivation. It seems that pollen parent in those cases could be C. cartwrightianus.
Here you can see the variability between those seedlings.
Before the last picture you can see pure hadriaticus from Peloponess (PELO-023) collected by me.
At very end again Antoine Hoog's cv. Purple Heart.
Janis
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Last entry for this morning with some Crocuses from Italy.
Crocus ligusticus is more known in cultivation as C. medius, but the last is invalid name. Here form from Mnt. Biguone, one of best seen by me.
Following are Crocus longiflorus - one of the most aromatic crocuses with marvellous fragrance filling all greenhouse in sunny day.
First two pictures show you form collected by Antoine Hoog, the last ones show you variability of species near Basilicata (Italy).
Janis
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Janis. Lovely pictures I do like the white crocus especially First Snow. I can imagine the fragrance in your greenhouse.
Graeme your crocus are looking good especially with the Aberdeen sun shinning on there happy faces.
Thanks for showing us your collection.
Angie :)
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Janis, a superb collection - especially 'Homeri'. Glad to have the correct name of what I have as "C. medius Mnt. Bignone"!
Just some garden crocuses out in the last 2 weeks: Crocus banaticus survived last winter well under this birch, C. ochroleucus, C. pulchellus seems to do well everywhere, C. speciosus.
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Anne, nice selection of Crocus - but the Sisyrinchium is also striking. What species is it and is late flowering normal for this plant?
Gerd
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Yesterday regardless of nice offers weather remained too cloudy and no more pictures were maid. So I continue series from day before.
Really one of most beautiful autumn crocuses is C. caspius. Unfortunately it is not very hardy and a pair of years ago I lost all my stocks, including seedlings. With nice help of my friends Ian Young and Hendrik van Bogaert I restored them. Rik's plants represents white form of this beauty, Ian's - bluish shaded.
Still are blooming Crocus gilanicus from Erich Pasche with quite blue flowers. Gothenburg's white colored plants are earlier and finished blooming a week ago.
The best purest white Crocus goulimyi I got from Brian Mathew. It is far better than other whites of this species. In Mani White flower segments remain something rolled on sides. I don't know - is it normall for this cultivar or may be it is caused by virus?
The last in this entry is cv. 'Harlequin' selected by John Fielding. I found similar in Peloponnese and named it 'New Harlequin'. In previous season my form had greater contrast between color of outer and inner segments, but this season it is just opposite - John's plant is far better.
Janis
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In this entry two crocus species - Crocus laevigatus - very nice small plant from Greece and Islands. Quite variable in color. Here two stocks from Crete and two from Peloponnese. PELO-012 is the bluest what I ever saw.
Crocus melantherus from biflorus group is variable, too. There are plants with striped and speckled back of flower segments, with plain yellow anthers and anthers with black connectives. Proportion is variable in different populations. Of course I more like those with black color in anthers.
Janis
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In this entry I will start with Spanish Crocus serotinus subsp. clusii. I can't tell that I very like this stock. I'm doubtful - is it healthy or not (virus)? May be I'm too suspicious but Crocus serotinus is quite famous for its commercially available stocks which in most cases are virus-infected, especially subsp. salzmannii. It took long time for me to find healthy stocks.
The next comes from opposite side - from Iran - it is the last blooming Crocus speciosus stock (WHIR-125) - very uniform and beautiful, and the latest of this species stocks blooming with me.
And the last in this entry is Crocus tournefortii from Greek Islands (names of islands attached to pictures). The blue colored flower pictured when it starts to open and next day when flower nicely opened. It was collected by Arnis Seisums. The last stock was collected by me on Crete and it close flowers in night, so supposed to be hybrid with C. boryi. Such hybrids in some parts of Crete are quite common and noted by other crocophiles, too.
Janis
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Janis,
thank you for showing all this marvelous and rare crocus species and forms.
Congratulation for your first C. sativus flower :D
Beside the rare and difficult to please species which I can't grow outside in my garden I'm warmed towards the variabiltiy of C. hadriaticus and its nice hybrids and C. robertianus. Certainly something I'll have an eye on.
Would you recommend C. robertianus for growing outside?
The C. longiflorus Basilicata is an eye catcher too - nice stripes in the center.
The white form of C. caspius is a hammer. Very lovely.
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This is a very good time to examine the new shoots on crocuses which may still be under the top dressing as greenfly gather on them out of sight.A look at just a few pots will reveal if a problem is developing and all can be treated.
An infestation can quickly develop in mild weather and so systemic insecticide is a good preventative remedy.
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Janis,
Beside the rare and difficult to please species which I can't grow outside in my garden I'm warmed towards the variabiltiy of C. hadriaticus and its nice hybrids and C. robertianus. Certainly something I'll have an eye on.
Would you recommend C. robertianus for growing outside?
I grew outside C. robertianus for several years without serious problems. Impossible here to grow in open garden are species wintering with leaves. All which I tried died. From leafless species here problematic is only C. banaticus - blooms too late and isn't sufficiently hardy, earlier or later I lost all its stocks planted in open garden.
Janis
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This is a very good time to examine the new shoots on crocuses which may still be under the top dressing as greenfly gather on them out of sight.A look at just a few pots will reveal if a problem is developing and all can be treated.
An infestation can quickly develop in mild weather and so systemic insecticide is a good preventative remedy.
Never met with such problem in my nursery. For me most important now is remowing of old flowers which very easy get mould in such cloudy and wet weather. Botrytis/penicillium quickly goes down from died flowers and infects corm. So remowing is extremely important.
Janis
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Last pictures from my "piggy bank". All the day fog changes to rain and back, muddy, wet weather.
So at first many different forms of Crocus mathewii pictured on Tuesday.
The last is the last flower of Crocus nudiflorus. It seem that late blooming happens, because plant took all power to make this multipetalled plant. It is only annual modification, not inherited feature, but impressive..., at least interesting.
Janis
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This is a very good time to examine the new shoots on crocuses which may still be under the top dressing as greenfly gather on them out of sight.A look at just a few pots will reveal if a problem is developing and all can be treated.
An infestation can quickly develop in mild weather and so systemic insecticide is a good preventative remedy.
Never met with such problem in my nursery. For me most important now is remowing of old flowers which very easy get mould in such cloudy and wet weather. Botrytis/penicillium quickly goes down from died flowers and infects corm. So remowing is extremely important.
Janis
Janis beautiful pictures again.
As to the greenfly I think you have much colder weather,it was 16c here yesterday and bees are still flying about. Our pests stay active all winter.
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As to the greenfly I think you have much colder weather,it was 16c here yesterday and bees are still flying about. Our pests stay active all winter.
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I found greenflies only in very few seasons many years ago and only on shoots of Arum in bulb storehouse, never on crocus shoots although some autumn blooming species develops quite long shoots in bulb boxes.
Janis
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I grew outside C. robertianus for several years without serious problems. Impossible here to grow in open garden are species wintering with leaves. All which I tried died. From leafless species here problematic is only C. banaticus - blooms too late and isn't sufficiently hardy, earlier or later I lost all its stocks planted in open garden.
Janis
Janis,
thank you for your experiences. I'll put C. robertianus on my wishlist.
Today got some sunshine at 11°C and some new flowers and a bumble bee appeared:
C. cartwrightianus and C. ligusticus 'Millesimo'. Both from Dirk. Reliable flowering under my conditions.
C. boryi - first time to flower for me. Grown from a few cormlets given by Erich Pasche in 2008. The flower head stuck for days during the low temperatures. Obviously got some frost damages on the tips.
C. ochroleucus - always got only sporadic flowers in the first season. Lifted my remaining small stock of 8 corms last year and planted it deep ~18-20 cm. Now 5 flowers and 2 more buds visible. Thanks for the good advise Thomas. :D
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Armin, very beautiful C. ligusticus 'Millesimo' and ochroleucus... reading this thread I see that there are many more autumn crocus than I ever imagined.
An odd situation that I can't quite figure out, I noticed that my clump of C. speciosus xantholaimos had been ravaged by gray squirrels, my arch nemesis. They're busy burying acorns, and typically don't eat any of my crocus (I plant mine deep), although irritatingly they often nip off the floral tubes on crocus, they nipped off all flowers recently on C. thomasii, niveus, and asumaniae.
In the photos, you can see lots of corm tunics, one partially eaten corm, and severed floral tubes, but there's no digging! Not sure how the corms and tunics came to be on the surface, without any evidence of digging??? Are the corms of this species shallow, do they rise close to the surface, so that pulling on a flower stem would lift the corms out too? I excavated a little bit (about 2" or 5 cm) and see there are still many more buds coming from underground stems/tubes. Puzzling.
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two more flowering recently, boryi and caspius.
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Today again we had some sun and wonderfull weather. I passed time with my crocuses. Not so many newcomers as previous days were cold and muddy and development is very slow. Really most of my autumn bloomers started flowering. Still very few species left with only noses of buds. Sorry, if some plant I showed before. There were so many entries, but all those pictures are maid today.
So the first is almost pure white gathering of Crocus asumaniae, not so bright as stock from Sixtus, but with more rounded flower segments.
Next is pot of Crocus banaticus cv. Snowdrift - now it is at its best.
Crocus boryi is very uniform plant, they looks very similar in different localities. This year they are not so good as usually, flowers are smaller than usually and with something malformed tips of flower segments. Only few stocks looks perfect as this one from Kephalinia. The early blooming stocks were similar, but they are over.
This Crocus cancellatus damascenus comes from Kubbe gec.
Two nice Crocus cancellatus mazziaricus - both different not only by color, but by corm tunics, too. JATU-021 is variable by color (you can see small blue flower on left). The almost white I like for this blue striped rim around throat. Corm tunic of this stock is finely reticulated. Another from Rendina (Greece) has coarsely reticulated corm tunics (such, according Brian Mathew, is typical for this subsp.).
Janis
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One more entry for today.
Crocus laevigatus I showed before, too. Its interesting that all stocks from Crete, grown by me has much smaller flowers than stocks from continental Greece. But may be it is seasonal, my experience with Cretan samples is very short.
The first two are Cretan plants of C.laevigatus (the first stock was shown before, too).
Next pair is stock from Peloponnese (PELO-013), at present I think it is best of my laevigatus. In background (slightly creamy white, not so cold white as laevigatus, is C. boryi).
I showed several pictures of C.longiflorus from Basilicata before, but this one flower fully opened only today.
And the last again is C. mathewii Pink form got from Cyril Lafong, but with more open flower.
Janis
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A pot of Crrocus goulimyi seedlings today.
johnw
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Janis, nice forms Crocus laevigatus.
Here some pics from this weekend:
Cr.banaticus quatro
biflorus melantherus in several forms
cancellatus ssp.cancellatus
hyemalis from Israel
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and more:
Cr.cartwrightianus
laevigatus from Cape Matapan, Greece
`` dark form, a good grower
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Splendid pictures Janis and Dirk : so many splendid forms !!! :o
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and more:
Cr.cartwrightianus
laevigatus from Cape Metapa, Greece
`` dark form, a good grower
Crocus banaticus quatro - very nice, pity that only one-year lasting beauty.
Very like yours dark laevigatus. I haven't such.
Janis
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Few pictures from yesterday:
One of my autumn favourites - Crocus melantherus from Greece
Crocus oreocreticus - stock received from Jim, my own even didn't show noses out of pot.
Today can show you fully opened flowers of Crocus pallasii from Labranda, Tu. This flower was pollinated with form from Chios Island Homeri (see earlier in this topic)
Crocus sativus from Iran opened its flowers, too and another corm formed one flower.
Started to flower Crocus veneris. This stock I got from Mr. Sixtus. Another is taller, but still didn't opened.
And as last - Crocus wattiorum in full bloom.
Janis
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What a fantastic show Dirk and Janis.The more I see them ,the more I like to grow them all. :D
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McMark,
it is a pitty the grey squirrels cause such damage and annoyance to you. :'(
Someone should invent a 'get off' spray for grey squirrels ;) ;D
John,
a nice clump for C. goulimyi seedlings. I would be glad my little stock (1 flower only, flopped over) would bulk up and flower as yours.
Dirk and Janis,
a feast for the eyes :o 8) 8) 8)
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Fantastic pictures everyone, after seeing all the beauties I have no doubt my very small Crocus collection will grow the next years. ::)