Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Gerdk on September 17, 2010, 08:31:00 PM

Title: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on September 17, 2010, 08:31:00 PM
Ready at last - here is the first autumn-flowering daff from the Northern Hemisphere

Narcissus elegans - from Morocco

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ashley on September 17, 2010, 08:34:18 PM
It certainly lives up to its name; what a fine start to the new season.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: BULBISSIME on September 17, 2010, 08:37:37 PM
Super Gerdk §
Does Germany have a sub tropical climate now ??
Not yet flowered in south of France  ??? :o ;D
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 17, 2010, 08:58:17 PM
Sehr elegant, Gerd !! :o ;D
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on September 18, 2010, 08:13:14 AM
Thanks for the kind comments!

Super Gerdk §
Does Germany have a sub tropical climate now ??
Not yet flowered in south of France  ??? :o ;D

Fred,
Quite the opposite - it's cold, rainy and windy here since weeks  :(. The flower is the result of a warming cable and after that a first watering and decreasing temperatures at the beginning of September.

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gail on September 19, 2010, 08:28:12 PM
My first autumn daffodil flowering yesterday; N. cavanillesii (N. humilis) from the Archibalds.  I went out this morning to take a better picture of it and found that a mice must have been admiring it in the night....  :'(

I've got the flower in an egg cup on the desk so I can at least enjoy the very delicate scent.  I told my youngest son that it was a daffodil and he says "Of course it is Mum."  Which is teenager speak for "Don't be so silly!"
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: pehe on September 22, 2010, 10:51:16 AM
Gail,

What a pity! It looked so pretty the day before.
Is it difficult to make them flower? I have had mine for 3 years without any flowers - I still hope for flowers this season.

Poul
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gail on September 22, 2010, 12:51:07 PM
I only bought mine this autumn so can claim no credit for getting it to flower.  Indeed I have had N. broussonetii for 3 years and it still hasn't flowered....
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: JPB on September 27, 2010, 06:07:35 AM
Gerd, at which temperatures (day/night) are you growing N. elegans?
Thanks, Hans
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on September 27, 2010, 11:06:30 AM
Gerd, at which temperatures (day/night) are you growing N. elegans?
Thanks, Hans

Hans, Please have a look at

Re: Narcissus miniatus and others - Reply #56 of Oct 21, 2008

I still use the same method - planned to change it in order to use
less energy and space but always had so much other plans.

Gerd

Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: JPB on September 27, 2010, 01:50:49 PM
Gerd, I read the post and have put my N. elegans (dry) in a warm 25C-40C greenhouse until the end of August. Then I put it in an unheated greenhouse, with additional heating once the temperature dropped below 10C. Daily temperatures now range from 15C to 20C/25C depending on weather. Leaves have developped immediately. But my question is: At which temperatures do you grow it in september and oktober?

Thanks again, HAns
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on September 27, 2010, 06:25:40 PM
Sorry, Hans.
I gave (give) them the same treatment like you do. Additional heating only by a small fan heater when the temperatures drop below + 3 ° Celsius.
Don't you have flowers?
I would be glad if you'll tell us the way you treat the bulbs during the warming periode!

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: JPB on September 27, 2010, 10:14:41 PM
So not warm during september and august! Ik kept the bulb dry in my succulent greenhouse with temperatures (day) between 25 and 35 (40C) during june, july and august. After watering by the end of august and putting it in my shaded greenhouse (10-20C) it showed its leaves. Hopefully flowers in a few weeks..

Hans
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: JPB on September 28, 2010, 06:00:10 AM
Sorry, I meant: September and October!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on September 28, 2010, 09:32:54 PM
Wonderful plants and pictures Gerd and Gail - here first of the autumn flowering daffodils is  Narcissus x perezlarae
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gail on September 28, 2010, 09:37:52 PM
Lovely Hans, is that a wild hybrid?
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: BULBISSIME on September 29, 2010, 04:55:49 PM
superb Hans !
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: TheOnionMan on September 29, 2010, 05:33:53 PM
Wonderful plants and pictures Gerd and Gail - here first of the autumn flowering daffodils is  Narcissus x perezlarae

Until seeing this thread, I was unaware of such things as tiny fall blooming Narcissus, they're charming.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on September 29, 2010, 07:28:37 PM
Wonderful plants and pictures Gerd and Gail - here first of the autumn flowering daffodils is  Narcissus x perezlarae

Gorgeous Hans.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on September 29, 2010, 08:01:58 PM
Here is an update of autumn-flowering daffs from today

1. Narcissus elegans
2. Narcissus miniatus - with a slight yellow-orange tint - Spanish origin
3. Narcissus miniatus - from Crete
4. Narcissus x perezlarae - the natural hybrid between N. miniatus and
    N. cavanillesii
5. Narcissus cavanillesii mauretanicus - the Moroccon form of cavanillesii

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on September 29, 2010, 08:06:08 PM
- I failed to add a second pic of N. cavanillesii mauretanicus -
here it is!

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on September 29, 2010, 08:11:20 PM
Excellent stuff Gerd, well grown.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ashley on September 29, 2010, 09:18:26 PM
Very beautiful.  You certainly manage these species well Gerd.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on September 29, 2010, 09:55:53 PM
Thanks Gail, Fred, Mark and David!

Superb plants and great pictures, Gerd!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gail on September 29, 2010, 09:56:31 PM
Wonderful Gerd!  What is the scent like on these?
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on September 30, 2010, 11:44:49 AM
Thank you alltogether for kind remarks!

Gail: There is not much scent today (only around 10 ° C) - I'm not able to smell anything besides powerful odours - unfortunatley most of the flowers not.
My wife did the test for me - she told that there was a slight scent from  Narcissus elegans and a stronger one from Narcissus cavanillesii (she said reminded her of vanilla).

Sorry this is not much help -
I'm sure they all are scented, perhaps someone with a better developed sensivity can help?
Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on October 01, 2010, 08:40:19 AM
Sorry this is not much help -
I'm sure they all are scented, perhaps someone with a better developed sensivity can help?

Gerd I think I am not of great help and doubt I have a better developed sensivity (I had ignored the wonderful scent of P.sickenbergeri for years until Oron mentioned it recently ::)), I did not note any scent in N. perezlarae and N. miniatus - but it was windy and to many nervous bees around to come very close to the flowers.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on October 01, 2010, 10:07:41 AM
P.sickenbergeri =Pancratium sickenbergeri , I assume?
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 01, 2010, 11:02:37 AM
Sorry this is not much help -
I'm sure they all are scented, perhaps someone with a better developed sensivity can help?

Gerd I think I am not of great help and doubt I have a better developed sensivity (I had ignored the wonderful scent of P.sickenbergeri for years until Oron mentioned it recently ::)), I did not note any scent in N. perezlarae and N. miniatus - but it was windy and to many nervous bees around to come very close to the flowers.

Thank you Hans - I recommend a ' sniff party ' during a calm sunny day  ;)
and a rerun at night - (because Narcissus viridiflorus is pollinated by moths!

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on October 01, 2010, 06:24:10 PM
P.sickenbergeri =Pancratium sickenbergeri , I assume?
;) - si.

Gerd, will try to organize such a party the next days. ;)
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 02, 2010, 07:33:05 AM
Quote from: Gerdk link=topic=6023.msg167791#msg167791 perezlarae
Thank you Hans - I recommend a ' sniff party ' during a calm sunny day  ;)
and a rerun at night - (because Narcissus viridiflorus is pollinated by moths!
Gerd

Followed my own suggestion and visited my daffs in the dark -
and I was pleasantly surprised. All daffodils in flower were remarkably scented -  most powerful Narcissus cavanillesii.
I can only recommend spending more time in the garden at night -
not only for slug hunting!   ;)

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gail on October 02, 2010, 12:28:11 PM
Excellent Gerd, perhaps we ought to have night-time flower shows so that more people could appreciate them...
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on October 02, 2010, 09:57:58 PM

I recommend a ' sniff party ' during a calm sunny day  ;)
and a rerun at night - (because Narcissus viridiflorus is pollinated by moths!

Gerd

Gerd, you are right, during the day hardly any scent was there, in the evening all narcissus had a good  scent!
Here some pics from today, this type of narcissus do fine ,except Narcissus cavanillesii -  there is no one visible whyever ::).
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 03, 2010, 08:22:37 PM
Hans, Thank you for confirmation! - and beautiful pics!

Narcissus cavanillesii is somewhat later than the others - maybe they will appear soon!

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 04, 2010, 03:47:57 PM
Three little beauties Hans !
They simply look superb in their settings.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on October 04, 2010, 05:46:20 PM
I am SOoooooooooo envious... the autumn- flowering narcissus do not do terribly well with us.  :( :-X :'(
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on October 04, 2010, 08:10:18 PM
Thanks Gerd, Luc and Maggi!
Maggi, I have similar problems here with Erythronium, Trillium... ;)
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 06, 2010, 10:07:38 PM
Here are some pics from my autumn flowering daffodils -

1. most of the flowering ones
2. Narcissus miniatus of Mallorcan origin
3. Narcissus miniatus from Cadiz
    - note the different petal size
4. Cadiz form - the whole pot
5. Narcissus miniatus with a slight orange tint

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gail on October 06, 2010, 10:12:26 PM
Fascinating pictures Gerd, thank you.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on October 06, 2010, 10:13:11 PM
So very beautiful, Gerd. I am very jealous!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 06, 2010, 10:27:10 PM
superb Gerd !
Today, in Corsica, Narcissus serotinus (miniatus) on the road...
Gerd, is it really N. miniatus now ??
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 07, 2010, 08:45:03 AM
Thank you, Gail and Maggi

superb Gerd !
Today, in Corsica, Narcissus serotinus (miniatus) on the road...
Gerd, is it really N. miniatus now ??



Now I am jelous too - what a wonderful roadside vegetation!

miniatus and serotinus are quite different - the separation of the two species was represented in 2005 by Donnison-Morgan, Koopowitz, Zonneveld and Howe. Because I'm not a taxonomist I can't tell anything about the acceptance of the new name.

If there are early flowering N. papyraceus in Corsica it would be worth to look for hybrids - like Oro did in Israel!

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gail on October 07, 2010, 10:27:08 AM
Fantastic picture Fred - how wonderful to see such flowers by the roadside!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: dominique on October 07, 2010, 11:18:51 AM
Splendid all. Gerd, what a diversity. Fred bon voyage et merci
Dom
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 07, 2010, 03:09:39 PM
I wonder if these could be grown outside in parts of New Zealand?
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Oron Peri on October 07, 2010, 07:23:46 PM
Gerd

That's a super display, i wonder how you keep it so tidy and clean...
When i see such displays I'm embarrassed to show mine..my pots are practically one on top of the other.... ;)

Do you know the origin of the M. orange, its a beauty and grows well with me.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 07, 2010, 08:19:13 PM
So very beautiful, Gerd. I am very jealous!

Me too. Many thanks Gerd.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on October 07, 2010, 08:33:12 PM
Congratulations Gerd, that really is tidy.


As a non-expert and comparing Gerd's pic of his Narcissus miniatus Mallorcan form with his Cadiz form it's hard to believe that they are the same species.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Paddy Tobin on October 07, 2010, 08:35:30 PM
Gerd,

A wonderful display, really enjoyed looking back over it.

Paddy
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Paul T on October 07, 2010, 11:16:29 PM
I wonder if these could be grown outside in parts of New Zealand?

I'm growing serotinus/miniatus outside here, Anthony.  If that is any help?
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 07, 2010, 11:27:39 PM
I wonder if these could be grown outside in parts of New Zealand?

I'm growing serotinus/miniatus outside here, Anthony.  If that is any help?

Not really Paul as you get extremes that are not known in NZ. I know some parts of NZ have a Mediterranean climate, such as Hawkes Bay, which would be ideal. South Western Australia would be the nearest equivalent to the Med.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 08, 2010, 11:47:02 AM
Thanks for the additional compliments!
- but ' tidy and clean ' ???? - only a few spots in the whole garden!

Gerd
Do you know the origin of the M. orange, its a beauty and grows well with me.

Oron, I'm glad that the 'orange' miniatus does well - the origin is
Andalucia, between Chiclana and Medina Sidonia - a place which exists no longer due to excessive road construction.

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 09, 2010, 07:34:10 PM
Superb collection Gerd !!  :o :o :o
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: annew on October 10, 2010, 02:14:56 PM
I can only agree - superb!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Oron Peri on October 10, 2010, 06:55:18 PM
Oron, I'm glad that the 'orange' miniatus does well - the origin is
Andalucia, between Chiclana and Medina Sidonia - a place which exists no longer due to excessive road construction.
Gerd

Gerd, thank you for this information.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 11, 2010, 09:42:34 AM
Oron, you're welcome!



There are some 'new' daffodils in flower now

1. - 3. Narcissus elegans f. auranticoronatus
4. the tube of Narcissus elegans - from Jebel Zerhoun, Morocco for comparismn
5. Narcissus serotinus (s.str.)

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on October 11, 2010, 07:32:19 PM
Lovely Gerd, you certainly grow them well.

Still waiting for my Narcissus cavanillesii to be delivered from Wrexham, don't know why I bothered now :(
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on October 13, 2010, 09:12:11 AM
Superb grown Narcissus, Gerd!

Here two more in flower, Narcissus viridiflorus and Narcissus miniatus with larger flowers from a small island of the balearic archipelago.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 13, 2010, 12:23:44 PM
I love N. viridiflorus and it's perfume  :)
welldone hans and Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Miriam on October 13, 2010, 05:05:58 PM
Lovely display Gerd, Fred and Hans!

Here it is still summer with 30C+   ::):-\
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 13, 2010, 06:34:10 PM
Thanks again, alltogether!

Hans, indeed a spectacular form of miniatus and congratulations for viridiflorus flowers!

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on October 14, 2010, 08:53:04 AM
Thanks Fred, Miriam  and Gerd.
Yesterday I found some N. miniatus along the roadside, they were a bit damaged by heavy rain.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 14, 2010, 11:12:23 PM
I always get one or two flowers in the pot bought as Narcissus serotinus.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 19, 2010, 06:24:45 PM
Just two pics from today (it's rainy, windy and around + 6 ° C)

1. Narcissus miniatus x tazetta - a gem

2. Narcissus miniatus from Crete - with unusual propeller petals

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on October 19, 2010, 09:15:43 PM
Just two pics from today (it's rainy, windy and around + 6 ° C)

1. Narcissus miniatus x tazetta - a gem

2. Narcissus miniatus from Crete - with unusual propeller petals

Gerd

1. seconded
2. wow
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on October 20, 2010, 08:42:30 PM
At long last my bulb of Narcissus cavanillesii was delivered today and is now potted up. Took an angry Email to get it though.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 21, 2010, 08:07:20 AM
David,
Thanks and congratulations! Please keep us informed about the growth of your new daff.

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tony Willis on October 21, 2010, 11:55:34 AM
Gerd more lovely ones,a joy to see.

David perhaps on reflection your angry email should have asked for your money back. Good luck.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on October 21, 2010, 07:19:03 PM
Gerd more lovely ones,a joy to see.

David perhaps on reflection your angry email should have asked for your money back. Good luck.

Tony, I'll be pleased if I get a leaf.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Juanba on October 30, 2010, 06:12:21 PM
One shot of Narcissus deficiens blooming from seed for the first time.
Simple and elegant.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: TheOnionMan on October 30, 2010, 06:20:37 PM
Very cool little plants.  I wonder if there is a botanical key to the autumn bloomers, lots of them look rather similar; cute, but similar.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 30, 2010, 07:40:51 PM
It seems the time for autumn flowering daffodils is nearly over -
but the viridiflorus hybrid shown in pic no. 1 and 2 is just opening. According to size and flowering time I am almost sure one parent is viridiflorus - but the other one?
No. 3 - After that I can't resist to show a miniatus - tazetta hybrid again, followed by no. 4 N. serotinus s. str.
- and no. 5 - a large flowering form of N. miniatus from Crete

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on October 30, 2010, 08:14:30 PM
Very cool little plants.  I wonder if there is a botanical key to the autumn bloomers, lots of them look rather similar; cute, but similar.

Mark, You will find a key with most of the autumn flowering daffodils in
' Narcissus - A guide to wild daffodils ' by John W. Blanchard
and in
' Flora Vascular de Andalucía Occidental ' by Valdes et al. (editores) - in Spanish -

Recent changes (f. i. miniatus/serotinus) aren't mentioned there!

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 31, 2010, 01:21:12 PM
I'm wondering what the lots of them are? There are basically three: viridiflorus; serotinus/miniatus and humulis(or cavanillesii) and they couldn't be more different.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: TheOnionMan on October 31, 2010, 02:32:02 PM
Always the teacher Anthony.

Gerd, thanks for your useful answer, I'll keep an eye out for those books.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 31, 2010, 03:43:40 PM
Always the teacher Anthony.

Why do I get the impression that's not a compliment Mark? ::)
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on November 11, 2010, 01:35:44 PM
Just as late as the viridiflorus parent -
here is Narcissus x alleniae, the natural hybrid between Narcissus viridiflorus and N. miniatus.
This clone is very near to viridiflorus - there are also some around which are similar to miniatus.

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 11, 2010, 01:51:03 PM
Just as late as the viridiflorus parent -
here is Narcissus x alleniae, the natural hybrid between Narcissus viridiflorus and N. miniatus.
This clone is very near to viridiflorus - there are also some around which are similar to miniatus.

Gerd

Oh my, that's a cool color, cool as a cucumber!  Very nice plants, great photographs Gerd.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: BULBISSIME on November 11, 2010, 05:57:20 PM
Fantastic gerd !!!
Never seen it before, .
Crazy colour and superb pictures, congratulations  :o
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on November 11, 2010, 06:19:16 PM
Lovely Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on November 11, 2010, 09:12:25 PM
one of the most beautiful natural crosses, thank you Gerd!. :o
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on November 12, 2010, 08:10:54 AM
Thank you alltogether - it was my pleasure to show these pics!

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: annew on November 12, 2010, 08:35:29 PM
I love your green flowers, Gerd!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: arillady on November 13, 2010, 09:20:44 AM
What fascinating flowers and superb photos Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on November 15, 2010, 09:04:37 AM
Gerd, superb plants and great pics!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on November 17, 2010, 01:05:47 AM
Would there be anyone who grows Narcissus elegans x Narissus serotinus (not N. miniatus), I would like to get a couple of bulbs of this hybrid....
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on November 21, 2010, 06:36:28 PM
Here is a Narcissus tazetta var. orcholeucus from Sardinia, look at the corona....
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on November 21, 2010, 06:45:37 PM
Here is a Narcissus tazetta var. orcholeucus from Sardinia, look at the corona....

Fine plant, Rafa. Looked for the translation of ochroleucus - it was
pale yellow (and it is)!

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on November 21, 2010, 06:55:42 PM
Gerd, what do you think about this corona, in 3 lobuled parts, it remeber me serotinous group...
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on November 22, 2010, 04:04:33 PM
Gerd, what do you think about this corona, in 3 lobuled parts, it remeber me serotinous group...

Sorry Rafa, Didn't note the shape initially. Unfortunately I can't compare
your plant with 'normal' N. tazetta.
Indeed the corona looks very similar to those of a tazetta-serotinus (miniatus) hybrid - received from Oron - see picture!
Is your plant fertile?

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on November 22, 2010, 06:37:33 PM
Definitively is the same plant, and it's not fertile.

I dedicate to you and Prof. Theo Sanders the following pictures. By the way, horses were very kind with me  ;D
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on November 22, 2010, 06:39:37 PM
N. miniatus (I prefer to use N. deficiens).

Note: Notice the ugly houses distroying the very few places in Cádiz of all these autumn species.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on November 22, 2010, 06:43:14 PM
Some late N. viridiflorus
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ArnoldT on November 22, 2010, 07:45:09 PM
Rafa:

We call the Mc-Mansions here in the USA.  (As in McDonalds  I think)

Take down one old quaint home and put up three with no green space.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on November 22, 2010, 09:51:08 PM
Totally agree Arnold... the most funny think it's that we also saw a big and ugly building called something like "Techologycal Center of Tourism and Life Quality" sorry for free transalation  ;)
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: TheOnionMan on November 22, 2010, 10:07:51 PM
Rafa:

We call the Mc-Mansions here in the USA.  (As in McDonalds  I think)

Take down one old quaint home and put up three with no green space.

Here in Northeastern USA, the term McMansion typically refers to ridiculously supersized houses on very small lots, often as you suggest Arnold, replacing a perfectly fine smaller-size older house.  Enjoy these beauties:
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&expIds=17259,17315,23628,23670,26474,26761,26849,26869,27022,27126,27520,27698,27740,27744&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=mcmansion&cp=9&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=BenqTKWvOoSaOuPgqLwK&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQsAQwAQ&biw=1280&bih=809 (http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&expIds=17259,17315,23628,23670,26474,26761,26849,26869,27022,27126,27520,27698,27740,27744&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=mcmansion&cp=9&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=BenqTKWvOoSaOuPgqLwK&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQsAQwAQ&biw=1280&bih=809)
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on November 23, 2010, 06:58:46 AM
Some late N. viridiflorus

Congratulations Rafa, you were not too late obviously!

I do hope very much it will not be too late for the future fate of these
unique plants of the Spanish flora.

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Anthony Darby on November 23, 2010, 03:11:30 PM
Rafa:

We call the Mc-Mansions here in the USA.  (As in McDonalds  I think)

Take down one old quaint home and put up three with no green space.
Here in Scotland they plant homes on perfectly good farm land. I drive past one such estate on my way to work. It has a sign advertising the housing estate, which is named "Royal Meadows". I suspect the irony is wasted on the vandals that have destroyed a lovely green meadow. Alas, most people nowadays don't want gardens. I've found that out taking prospective buyers round ours. They glaze over when I point out the pergola and wisteria. Bring back high rise flats and keep the countryside green!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: arillady on November 23, 2010, 10:21:55 PM
I do wonder where the food in the future will be grown when most of the really good arable land is under houses or industrial sites.
Happens here too - all very short sighted.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Anthony Darby on November 25, 2010, 12:06:55 PM
Wasn't it a member of Scandinavian royalty, on visiting Scotland shortly after the war, commented that any land unsuitable for golf courses had been put to good agricultural use? I wonder what he would say now?
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on November 27, 2010, 12:29:15 PM
The place where I took these pictures is probably the last genetic-evolutive lab from autumn narcissi in Europe. Apart some interesting plants like Drosophyllum lusitanicus, Mandragora autumnalis, Leucojum, Gladiolus italicus, Crocus clusii it grows N. viridiflorus, N. deficiens, N. cavanillesii, N. x alleniae, N. x perez larae. In addition I saw some N. x perez-larae setting seeds, although more studies are needed it is possible N. piifontianus is growing there as well.

This place (12 hectares approx)  has zero legal protection, and is unique in Europe.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ashley on November 27, 2010, 06:11:36 PM
This place (12 hectares approx)  has zero legal protection, and is unique in Europe.

So do you think it would be possible to buy it Rafa, as a reserve?
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on November 27, 2010, 08:22:07 PM
 :) if I only could!  ::)  I suggest a collect in SRGC members ;D to buy these fields and make "The SRGC Autumn Daffodil Sanctuary"
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ashley on November 27, 2010, 08:48:33 PM
Well, for such a significant area perhaps we could organise an international appeal to raise funds through the various horticultural and botanical networks including SRGC :)
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on November 27, 2010, 08:54:09 PM
Superb pictures, Rafa!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on November 27, 2010, 09:56:47 PM
thank you friends,

Fortunately this huge crisis stopped illegal developpment, but I visited another pupulation of N. cavanillesii and N.x perez-larae, (distroyed) and not far from it, they are planning to destroy a wild beach plenty of endemics and also autumn narcissus species like N. papyraceus. They planning to build ANOTHER Macro-Hotel-Golf etc... somthing honestly really neccesary, isn't it? There is not other posible place.... you can sign against this abssurd poryect here:
http://www.salvarelpalmar.es/
http://www.mirandoplantas.com/2010/09/el-ladrillo-ataca-de-nuevo-nuestros_23.html here it is explained (in spanish)
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerdk on November 29, 2010, 05:19:08 PM
and not far from it, they are planning to destroy a wild beach plenty of endemics and also autumn narcissus species like N. papyraceus. They planning to build ANOTHER Macro-Hotel-Golf etc... somthing honestly really neccesary, isn't it? There is not other posible place.... you can sign against this abssurd poryect here:http://www.salvarelpalmar.es/  
http://www.mirandoplantas.com/2010/09/el-ladrillo-ataca-de-nuevo-nuestros_23.html here it is explained (in spanish)

...  so did I  - this is the least one can do against the incredible destruction of natures last refuges!

Gerd
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on December 02, 2010, 06:55:49 PM
Thank you Gerd, much appreciated
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ArnoldT on December 03, 2010, 11:56:26 PM
Gets in under the Autumn wire
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: BULBISSIME on December 05, 2010, 09:11:19 AM
I don't understand many things but I trust Rafa, so I've signed it  !
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on December 05, 2010, 10:26:26 AM
I don't understand many things but I trust Rafa, so I've signed it  !

 Quite so, that's why I did too!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on December 05, 2010, 07:20:27 PM
...... and so did I.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gail on December 05, 2010, 07:46:44 PM
Yo también!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on December 06, 2010, 02:38:48 AM
thank you very much,
It's high time for people over here, to realise that Spain's touristic assets is to be found amongst landscapes, wilderness, gastronomy.... and not hotel-golf which are absurd in our country.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: BULBISSIME on December 06, 2010, 08:18:16 AM
Rafa, I also know some Golf courses ( Sperone in Corsica for example ) which are natural reserves for wildlife, with lots of well protected plants and animals.
It depends how they manage the area...
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on December 06, 2010, 11:20:58 PM
Rafa, thanks for the links - here we have a similar problem with a new Golfcourse which some people want to build - Convention International Ramsar  recommend not to build it (http://www.abc.es/20101117/local-baleares/ramsar-201011171240.html )- As I know actually it is stopped but the works are avanced with or without permits  here a link: http://www.gobmallorca.com/sonbosc/sonbosceng.html
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on December 07, 2010, 10:12:44 PM
Non of Narcissus cantabricus in flower so far, but first Narcissus papyraceus are glistening in the sun.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on December 09, 2010, 10:00:38 AM
oh, very beautiful! it smell fine or like a goat pee?
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: BULBISSIME on December 09, 2010, 08:41:14 PM
Superb Hans, It's like spring in winter .....
Perfect shape and white
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on December 09, 2010, 09:31:28 PM
Glistening is the right word Hans ! I need sunglasses to look at it...  8) :o

Great shot too !
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: annew on December 11, 2010, 11:16:27 PM
Superb photo, Hans.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 11, 2010, 11:46:09 PM
I'm still wondering what the flowers smell like... :D or  :P
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Maggi Young on December 12, 2010, 02:48:43 PM
I'm still wondering what the flowers smell like... :D or  :P

 Of Narcissus papyraceus ?   The scent is wonderful! Very heavy and too much for some and even I don't care to be trapped in too warm a room with it, but in moderation it is scrumptious..... rich and heady!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: TheOnionMan on December 12, 2010, 03:46:10 PM
I was referring to Rafa's colorful question about scent:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6023.msg175509#msg175509
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on December 12, 2010, 11:32:27 PM
Thanks a lot! - it smells fine but very, very intense, so it is better to keep a distance. ;)
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: ArnoldT on December 14, 2010, 05:05:38 PM
Narcissus cantabricus 'Silver Palate'
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on December 14, 2010, 06:23:29 PM
There are two diferent smell in N. papyraceus. There is one that smell very strong and we use to call it "meados de zorra", "meados de cabra" there are many names... "meados" means pee.
Although colour or smell are not very important in taxonomy, is important if we think in the pollinators. N. papyraceus and N. polyanthos smell bad, and N. panizzianus smell good but they are the same species for many people...
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: arillady on December 15, 2010, 09:43:41 AM
Doesn't scent come into the species botanical equation?
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Roma on December 16, 2010, 07:23:07 PM
The only colour in my greenhouse just now.
Grown from seed over 20 years ago as Narcissus bulbocodium hybrid, it flowers regularly, increases well and sets seed.  It is a bit later and shorter this year as I did not manage to water my bulbs early enough.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on December 18, 2010, 10:45:50 AM
Great to have some colour despite the weather conditions isn't it Roma !!

Here, Narcissus "Camoro" is flowering while it's -7°C outside !  ;D

Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on December 18, 2010, 01:40:15 PM
Doesn't scent come into the species botanical equation?

I don't think so, at least in Narcissus...

Beautiful hybrid Roma, and also your  "Camoro" Luc. Here in my green house there are just starting to bloom N. albidus foliosus and N. bulbocodium var. nivalis!! it is mad!

By the way, in few days it will bloom Narcissius sp# SF110, it seems any notrh african bulbocodium.. could any body mail me with any data collection.

Thank you in advance
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: LucS on December 18, 2010, 04:21:59 PM
By the way, in few days it will bloom Narcissius sp# SF110, it seems any notrh african bulbocodium.. could any body mail me with any data collection.

Thank you in advance
I have this collection from Morocco under the name N. albidus ssp albidus
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Tony Willis on December 18, 2010, 04:42:19 PM
Great to have some colour despite the weather conditions isn't it Roma !!

Here, Narcissus "Camoro" is flowering while it's -7°C outside !  ;D



Luc very lovely,I think you must have some heat on,mine are flat on the soil in the greenhouse!!
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Gerry Webster on December 18, 2010, 06:16:39 PM
By the way, in few days it will bloom Narcissius sp# SF110, it seems any notrh african bulbocodium.. could any body mail me with any data collection.

Thank you in advance
I have this collection from Morocco under the name N. albidus ssp albidus
So have I - said to be from Middle Atlas. However, the leaves of mine are not yet above ground. SF are Mike Salmon & Mark Fillan.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on December 18, 2010, 06:58:26 PM
Great to have some colour despite the weather conditions isn't it Roma !!

Here, Narcissus "Camoro" is flowering while it's -7°C outside !  ;D



Luc very lovely,I think you must have some heat on,mine are flat on the soil in the greenhouse!!

They're in the frostfree veranda Tony : +3°C at the moment.  ;)
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: David Nicholson on December 19, 2010, 11:26:41 AM
Thanks to Roma, Arnold and Luc for the pics. I have one bulb of Camoro yet to show, and I can't say I blame it for staying under the soil at the moment.

Wonder if I quickly amend my Santa list and add a frost free veranda he'll be able to get it down our chimney?
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Rafa on December 19, 2010, 12:59:43 PM
Luc, Gerry, Thank you for the info.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on December 19, 2010, 06:51:32 PM
A late Narcissus x alleniae - very close to N. viridiflorus.
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: johnw on December 19, 2010, 06:53:32 PM
Wonder if I quickly amend my Santa list and add a frost free veranda he'll be able to get it down our chimney?

David - Ask him to leave it at the front door.

johnw
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Hans A. on December 19, 2010, 06:54:08 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Anthony Darby on March 16, 2011, 10:13:02 AM
Need to find an antipodean source of these autumn joys! 8)
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: fermi de Sousa on March 17, 2011, 01:38:45 AM
Need to find an antipodean source of these autumn joys! 8)
Talk to Lesley! You need to check with MAF and then order from Marcus Harvey http://www.hillviewrareplants.com/ (http://www.hillviewrareplants.com/) -if he has any of what you want.
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: autumn-flowering daffodils - Northern Hemisphere
Post by: Anthony Darby on April 14, 2011, 10:36:41 AM
I think this route is too expensive so I will put out a request for seed of these little gems. I'm especially keen to grow Narcissus viridiflorus here.
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