Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Andrew on September 01, 2010, 04:52:02 PM

Title: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Andrew on September 01, 2010, 04:52:02 PM
Autumn has arrived in East Anglia.

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C. vallicola
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 01, 2010, 06:05:32 PM
How lovely, Andrew - well, the C. vallicola is, not the fact that Autumn is arrived .

Funnily enough, we are at the same stage up here in Aberdeen too... see today's Bulb Log
 http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Sep011283348440BULB_LOG__3510.pdf
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 01, 2010, 08:52:30 PM
Looking very healthy Andrew !!
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: tonyg on September 01, 2010, 10:16:30 PM
Autumn has arrived in East Anglia.

(Attachment Link)

C. vallicola
Here too - the first Crocus is C vallicola.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on September 02, 2010, 01:59:48 PM
my first open today

Crocus cancellatus
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: I.S. on September 02, 2010, 02:22:58 PM
  Tony, very nice Cancellatus! I am thinking which subsp. it might be! :-\
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on September 02, 2010, 02:30:27 PM
Ibrahim

I think it is mazziaricus,thanks for the correction.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: I.S. on September 02, 2010, 02:45:03 PM
 Tony, I am not sure for mazziaricus. It looks more like damascenus to me!

Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 02, 2010, 02:55:25 PM
 It seems the bract and bracteole are the tips for ID  in this case....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/genera/logdir/2010Mar281269807373Crocus_cancellatus_mazziaricus.pdf
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 02, 2010, 03:28:30 PM
my first open today

Crocus cancellatus

Great start of the season Tony !
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on September 02, 2010, 03:52:50 PM
I have been and looked at its bits and only the bract is showing which makes it ssp damascenus. I was going by its distribution in 'The Crocus' from which it would appear to be mazziaricus. Personally I find these minor differences and divisions quite meaningless.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on September 02, 2010, 09:54:16 PM
Great start into September.
Both, C. vallicola and C. cancellatus are very beautiful.
Still struggling with a glut of slugs in my garden after the last moist weeks. >:(
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 03, 2010, 08:32:09 PM
With me first bud of speciosus shows color for some days and today suddenly came out and started to bloom 3 pots with various suworovianus. As I wrote earlier all buds of scharojanii came out and dried without opening, I suppose (hope) due very hot weather (around +30 C).
Returning to Crocus cancellatus I suppose that differences between subsp. in flowers is really very small, only subsp. pamphylicus can be easy distinguishable by white anthers and at present I more and more think that subsp. lycius must be regarded at species range, not as subspecies. It has well separated areal and can't be misidentified by color, size and position of stigma. Although I still regard it as subspecies of cancellatus in my coming book but each book can show only knowledge at writing time.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Hendrik Van Bogaert on September 05, 2010, 06:25:25 AM
Here too was autumn arrived in Belgium with C. gilanicus.
Not so spectaculair, but corms are grown form seeds from our friend Jim Archibald!
Hendrik
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: kiwi on September 06, 2010, 09:02:09 AM
First time flowering in my collection.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Andrew on September 08, 2010, 05:52:32 PM
A close relative of my previous posting.

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C. kotschyanus suworowianus
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 10, 2010, 06:09:48 PM
Crocus suworovianus got companions in blooming. Nicely blooms pots with Crocus speciosus ilgazensis - the smallest of speciosus, easy identifiable by stigma which is well overtopped by anthers. Side by side is pot with speciosus speciosus from Crimea - very variable in color and more than twice as large than ilgazensis.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on September 10, 2010, 07:08:16 PM
Janis very nice,my first Crocus speciosus is out today. This is from Hasan Dag in central Turkey
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on September 11, 2010, 08:38:45 PM
The first to flower here : Crocus banaticus 'Snowdrift' 
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Alex on September 11, 2010, 09:42:31 PM
Something from today - Crocus kotschyanus ssp. cappadocicus (from Janis this year).
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Lesley Cox on September 11, 2010, 11:47:48 PM
The lovely picture of C. banaticus 'Snowdrift' reminds me that I must lift and rescue my own white banaticus (not a named clone) as there was not a single flower back in the autumn and I thought I would have lost them, their place had become so dry. A couple of weeks ago there came up a rash of new foliage so still alive but definitely in need of a new, damper home.

Only CC. kosaninii and minimus forms are in flower here now, then the long, deprived wait until autumn rains start in maybe 6 months.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 12, 2010, 07:05:37 AM
Crocus kotschyanus cappadocicus started to flower yesterday, but weather is cloudy and flowers didn't open so well as in Alex garden.
Still blooms Crocus suworovianus, so I'm showing some variation in flower color - two lilac striped forms (BATM-174 - striped in lower half of petals and LST-304 - lilac stripes reach top of flower segments) and one with flower segments resembling by shape Crocus vallicola. Only vertically positioned corm allow identify it without doubt as C. suworovianus (JRRK-028).
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 17, 2010, 03:58:27 PM
Today great surprise - started blooming of Crocus scharojanii flavus. As I wrote earlier flowers of scharojanii and lazicus were aborted due very hot weather. I thought the same about flavus as at replanting time at end of July it had 6-7 cm long shoots and I hoped to quick blooming, but flowers didn't came up today. Quite late for it.
During some sunny hours nicely opened kotschyanus cappadocicus, started to bloom white Crocus pallasii from Crimea. Still blooms earliest forms of Crocus speciosus. Here some pictures of forms from Crimea (very large), from Southern part of Turkey (smaller, less striped and darker blue) and another form of ilgazensis with comparatively larger and deeper colored, more striped flower. If not stigma branched far below tips of anthers (check on left flower - almost in throat), I would be in some doubt about its belonging to subsp. ilgazensis.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on September 17, 2010, 05:28:42 PM
Janis very nice to see.

It has been a good day for flowering with me,warm and sunny.

Crocus pulchellus self sown in sand plunge
Crocus speciosus three collections
Crocus hadriaticus
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 17, 2010, 08:23:54 PM
Crocus banaticus

Always the first crocus to flower here.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: tonyg on September 17, 2010, 09:12:27 PM
Some lovely Crocus - Janis and Tony.  Crocus kotschyanus cappadocicus is one of the most beautiful.  Gerry takes the prize for the best potful though, magnificent!
Here I am almost finished repotting the crocus, it will be a little while before the main autumn flush of flowers.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 18, 2010, 05:54:28 AM
Excellent C. speciosus from Greece, Tony. I still haven't Greek speciosus in my collection.
Beautiful pot with banaticus, Gerry. Crocus banaticus here allways is quite late and rarely blooms in outside garden.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: udo on September 19, 2010, 12:37:06 PM
Six weeks after the flower from Cr.scharojanii
comes the real autumn season:
Cr.kotschyanus ssp.cappadocius
         ``               suworowianus
         ``               hakkariensis
         ``               kotschyanus
and very early this year Cr.serotinus ssp.salzmanii
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on September 19, 2010, 06:40:32 PM
Now it's started! Not a single nose showing yet on any of mine.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 19, 2010, 07:09:54 PM
Great show folks !
Looking forward to many many more and hope to show some of mine in a couple of weeks.  :D
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on September 20, 2010, 08:33:19 PM
Now it's started! Not a single nose showing yet on any of mine.

.... but, I found this one this morning. Crocus kotschyanus, one that Tony Willis dug from his plunge and kindly sent to me in 2008, and three others to come from that pot.

 
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 21, 2010, 05:48:32 PM
Here started blooming of Crocus autranii and it's hybrid with C. gilanicus - quite similar but slightly lighter.
Last autumn I was in Crimea to picture Crocus pallasii in nature for my coming book. Of course, few corms were collected, too. White ones I showed earlier - now usual lilac form. During same trip we revisited Crocus speciosus locality, although it was not our target. Day was very dark, cloudy and rainy. Most crocuses were over or not started blooming. Really there were very few flowerbuds seen. We were 3 - Dima (our guide), Leonid from Lithuania and I. We talked about white speciosus, that such plants are not seen in nature. And in my book is written that whites are exceptionally rare, that Zhirair, who specially searched for it, didn't find such in Armenia, only very few very light. I followed Leonid and I still can't understand how I noted those half-wilted, rain-damaged remnants of something whitish between fallen leaves. Now it bloomed with me. Of course - not so white as cv. 'Albus', in bud it is slightly grayish speckled on back of flower segments, but opened it is almost pure white. Unfortunately only almost...
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 21, 2010, 06:03:03 PM
Another very interesting Crocus which flowers now is unusually dark form of Crocus kotschyanus cappadocicus. I immediately marked it, because never before saw so deeply lilac.
Continues blooming of Crocus suworovianus and quite unusual form of it - named f. lilacinus. It isn't collected by me and I know only that it comes from Turkey. I bought it from Czech collector.
Started blooming of Crocus cancellatus damascenus and opened first flower of very early form of Crocus boryi. Started blooming C. hadriaticus, but yesterday was too late for picturing of it and today is dark clouds and all the day autumn rain. So no one crocus opened its flowers.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on September 22, 2010, 08:36:37 AM
Janis,
thank you for showing all the rare and extraordinary forms of your collection and the related stories behind.
My personal preferences are striped, highly contrasted forms. Hence C. autranii, the unusually dark form of Crocus kotschyanus cappadocicus and C. pallasii are my favourites - very lovely.

In my garden C. kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus is the first of autuum flowering species and other promising noses poking through the ground.
This clone did not flower last year after a shy flowering the year before. So I'm happy with my modest success.
Other species like C. speciosus, hadriaticus and nudiflorus show noses, too. :)
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 22, 2010, 10:22:32 AM
A very nice one Armin !  :D

Janis, what a cracking series !!!!   :o
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 22, 2010, 10:32:20 AM
Croconuts..... more crocus pix from Janis and Zhirair (boyed) in the next issue of 'International Rock Gardener'..... online on Friday 24th September!  8)
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on September 22, 2010, 09:37:22 PM
Thanks Luc :D
How are your croci growing? Usually your croci are a bit ahead flowering compared to mine.

Maggi,
I'm anxious to read the next edition;D
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 23, 2010, 01:43:15 PM
Just one speciosus open at the moment here - should have some more to post in a couple of days !!  :D
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on September 23, 2010, 06:50:43 PM
Three more from today.

Crocus speciosus 'Oxonian'
C. spesiosus ssp. xantholaimos x pulchellus
C. pulchellus 'Inspiration'
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: pehe on September 24, 2010, 10:34:28 AM
Nice Crocus pics Janis and David!

My first crocus is speciosus and banaticus.

Poul
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: udo on September 25, 2010, 01:43:22 PM
some flowers from this weekend:
Cr.autranii
Cr.banaticus `Albus`
Cr.karduchorum 3 pics
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: udo on September 25, 2010, 01:48:43 PM
and more:
Cr.cambessedesii 3 pics
Cr.mathewii, rose form
Cr.pallasii from S.-Turkey
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on September 25, 2010, 07:23:36 PM
Lovely stuff Dirk.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: hadacekf on September 25, 2010, 08:15:41 PM
Great Crocuses all !
Self seedlings of crocuses in meadow and bulb frame.
Crocus kotschianus and C. serotinus.
Crocus kotschianus
Crocus hadriaticus
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: tonyg on September 25, 2010, 09:10:57 PM
A slow start to the season here with late watering.
Crocus vallicola - 3 forms pictured has been the first to flower.
Crocus kotschyanus ssp surowowianus.
Crocus .. autranii x gilanicus I think follows closely.  It looks like the plant Janis pictured under that name.  It set a (very) few seeds this year so we'll see what they produce ... in about 4 years time ;D
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 26, 2010, 05:50:30 AM
Hybrid of gilanicus x autranii set well seeds with me last year and this season again and I'm very excited waiting what will show splitting in second generation. But hybrid can be seperated from pure autranii only when you saw both side by side.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on September 26, 2010, 08:07:19 PM
I should go to the croconuts. It`s a fine world of autumn colors. Here are only a few crocus banaticus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 26, 2010, 08:22:47 PM
I should go to the croconuts. It`s a fine world of autumn colors. Here are only a few crocus banaticus.
Excellent form on picture #3 - never saw something similar in banaticus. How you got such?
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 26, 2010, 08:39:18 PM
Wonderful forms of banaticus Hagen !!
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on September 26, 2010, 08:40:00 PM
Seconded. Fabulous.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: daveyp1970 on September 26, 2010, 08:40:58 PM
The striped banaticus is fantastic Hagen :o
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on September 27, 2010, 06:47:19 AM
Thank you for the good comments. Here is a part of my "crocus meadow" with pale and dark colors and bicolored too. This is also the place of the striped banaticus. Only good luck.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Melvyn Jope on September 27, 2010, 07:39:42 PM
My first two autumn crocus are out today, the first two pictures are of Crocus laevigatus from Leptokoria, Thrace in Northern Greece, this is growing in a frame. The next two are of Crocus speciosus growing in the garden.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on September 27, 2010, 07:59:49 PM
Lovely laevigatus Melvyn.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 27, 2010, 08:10:40 PM
Melvyn - I think that is the most striking C. laevigatus I have ever seen.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 27, 2010, 08:16:20 PM
Melvyn - I think that is the most striking C. laevigatus I have ever seen.

I agree on that one Melvyn : it looks a treat !
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on September 27, 2010, 10:00:24 PM
Melvyn,
fantastic crocus images. I'm doubtful of your C. leavigatus, never saw such strong stripes inside flower tube with doted yellow markings and flowering time so early - it looks more like a stunning C. pulchellus to me! ;D
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: tonyg on September 27, 2010, 10:57:24 PM
I agree with Armin - stunning but definitely Crocus pulchellus.  A check of the corm and tunic will confirm (later!) as C pulchellus has typical 'biflorus/speciosus' type, flat bottomed, papery with basal rings.  Crocus laevigatus has distinctive round bottomed corms with a pointed, narrow neck and hard, eggshell-like tunic.

.... I'm sure Melvyn will reply and tell us it was a slip of the keyboard!
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Melvyn Jope on September 28, 2010, 08:32:50 AM
Thank you all for the very positive remarks about the Crocus photos. Tony, how kind of you to assume that I really knew that it was C.pulchellus! it was really based on a quick assumption and I will certainly take your advice and check the corm later. Thanks to you and Armin for correctly identifying it, perhaps I should stick to Cyclamen from here on where I will be on slightly firmer ground.....
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: David Nicholson on September 28, 2010, 09:40:39 AM
Lovely pulchellus Melvyn! ;D
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 28, 2010, 10:12:49 AM
yes... definitely a stunning pulchellus !  ;D
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on September 28, 2010, 10:22:32 AM
I should go to the croconuts. It`s a fine world of autumn colors. Here are only a few crocus banaticus.

Hagen,
you are welcome any time! ;) Beside your nice dark and bicolored forms of C. banaticus your striped one is something special :o 8)
I think it is worth to propagate it. :D
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 28, 2010, 10:24:43 AM
OK - when roused from my senile slumbers, I agree that C. pulchellus is more likely. Still a superb crocus.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 28, 2010, 10:26:53 AM
A couple of drooling folks here in Aberdeen for the beauty of the pucluellus' markings and for the really lovely photos, Melvyn... that is a GEM!
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 28, 2010, 10:29:33 AM
Hagen, I must disagree with all the plaudits for your "striped" banaticus, even from Janis....... to my eye it is diseased and I would burn it.  Sorry, but that is my opinion.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: tonyg on September 28, 2010, 11:16:41 AM
Thank you all for the very positive remarks about the Crocus photos. Tony, how kind of you to assume that I really knew that it was C.pulchellus! it was really based on a quick assumption and I will certainly take your advice and check the corm later. Thanks to you and Armin for correctly identifying it, perhaps I should stick to Cyclamen from here on where I will be on slightly firmer ground.....
Melvyn - you are among friends here .... and we all want to see more of you crocuses and your cyclamen!
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: tonyg on September 28, 2010, 11:29:20 AM
Hagen, I must disagree with all the plaudits for your "striped" banaticus, even from Janis....... to my eye it is diseased and I would burn it.  Sorry, but that is my opinion.

Hmm .. I also wondered about this.  The pale ground colour is unusual, this would not alone be a sign of virus.  The veins are not unusual, look at the following image.  The veins show because of the the pale ground.  The flower is a slightly odd shape and I have found that C banaticus is more susceptible than most crocus to virus and other diseases.  If it were mine I would put it in 'quarantine' away from other crocus and evaluate it over the next year or two.  I want to believe it is healthy ... but Maggi might be right.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 28, 2010, 12:47:50 PM
A "regular" vein pattern is usual, of course, but in the white striped flower the colouring is patchy and broken..... :'(
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on September 28, 2010, 01:07:39 PM
Maggi and Tony, the basic population of the "striped" banaticus is very heterogeneous. We found pale, dark, bicoloured and few real white forms. This year there are two striped exemplars. Hm. Hope, I can show you another pic.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Thomas Huber on September 28, 2010, 04:42:16 PM
Hagen, I really wish, your striped banaticus will survive and turn out to be healthy.
I also had such a white plant with blue style some years ago, but it didn't survive.
It came up in a patch with only blue forms so I guess it turned white due to damage
in the underground - don't know what  ???


Melvyn, whatever your crocus is, it's a good one. But you don't need to dig up the
corm to identify it - laevigatus flowers with its full leaves while pulchellus-leaves
grow in spring or early winter - I don't see any leaves in your photos  :-\
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 28, 2010, 05:28:05 PM
Melvyn, whatever your crocus is, it's a good one. But you don't need to dig up the
corm to identify it - laevigatus flowers with its full leaves while pulchellus-leaves
grow in spring or early winter - I don't see any leaves in your photos  :-\

Thomas & Melvyn - according to BM, although C. laevigatus  is synanthous, it can flower with just the tips of the leaves showing. My plants always flower with well developed leaves & my experience of C. pulchellus is that  the leaves come some time after the flowers.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on September 28, 2010, 07:14:47 PM
A lot of rain pushed down the flowers. It`s the last pic for this year. I mean too, the colour isn`t normal. I have hope for the next year. Thank you all for the informations.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Martin Baxendale on September 28, 2010, 10:40:08 PM
When I saw Melvyn's laevigatus pic I have to say I also thought "pulchellus" (and a very nice one). And the dark speciosus looks like 'Oxonian' to me, Melvyn.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 29, 2010, 10:05:10 AM
Melvyn,
fantastic crocus images. I'm doubtful of your C. leavigatus, never saw such strong stripes inside flower tube with doted yellow markings and flowering time so early - it looks more like a stunning C. pulchellus to me! ;D

Melvyn, I agree with you. This almost 100% is pulchellus.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 29, 2010, 10:08:54 AM
A lot of rain pushed down the flowers. It`s the last pic for this year. I mean too, the colour isn`t normal. I have hope for the next year. Thank you all for the informations.
Usually I agree with Maggie, but in your pictures, Hagen, I can't see virus symptoms.
Janis
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on September 29, 2010, 04:49:38 PM
Thank you Janis, my hope is growing :-\
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Boyed on September 29, 2010, 05:52:38 PM
A lot of rain pushed down the flowers. It`s the last pic for this year. I mean too, the colour isn`t normal. I have hope for the next year. Thank you all for the informations.

Virus is always the sphere of my great concern.
As Janis, I also don't see any colour break or colour irregularity in your crocus Hagen. The colouring is quite natural. In my opinion, the corcus is healthy.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Maggi Young on September 29, 2010, 06:21:05 PM
I am interested to hear the opinions of Janis and of Zhirair, whom I know to be an expert in such matters.... I admit that the second photo shown displays a more regular colouring... in the first one, repeated below, there seemed to be too many broken lines for my liking!

I hope your crocus is healthy,Hagen, and remains so. 
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Boyed on September 29, 2010, 07:15:54 PM
I am interested to hear the opinions of Janis and of Zhirair, whom I know to be an expert in such matters.... I admit that the second photo shown displays a more regular colouring... in the first one, repeated below, there seemed to be too many broken lines for my liking!

I hope your crocus is healthy,Hagen, and remains so.  

Maggii,
I think the second photo is also O.K. Virused stripes usually are irregular and have distinct margins. In this photo I see symmetry in the colouring of the stripes (looking like thick vertical vains) and the lines don't break strictly, just blend with main background colour (maybe because of not enough light). In case of virus colour patterns are different in all 6 petals (all are striped differently). Healthy plants have the same pattren in all 6 petals or 3 outer petals are colured in one common way and the inner ones in a different way.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Martin Baxendale on September 29, 2010, 07:32:43 PM
Like Maggi, I wondered if the strangely shaped and marked banaticus might be an unhealthy corm; it looks a bit stunted. If it was in my garden, I'd be inclined to poke around in the soil to see if there's a problem with the corm - perhaps basal rot and/or a lack of healthy rooting causing a stunted flower. In fact, I'd probably lift it carefully, check for basal/root problems, and pot it for safe keeping and careful cultivation. Hope it does turn out to be a good corm and stable colouring, Hagen.

I have just picked out an interesting banaticus seedling (from a white banaticus crossed with a lilac-blue) which looks like it will have white flowers with pale lilac tips - also very big strong corm with two flower stems from the one corm...interestingly, from differemt sides of the corm rather than both from the centre. Problem is, it was one of a handful of seedling corms left too long in a bag of dry peat, which had rooted and made buds in the bag, so the colouring may not stay that way. Will post a photo if it does. I'm way behind with all my repotting!  :(
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Gerdk on September 29, 2010, 07:51:31 PM
Here are Crocus nudiflorus and C. speciosus of Swedish origin!

Gerd
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on September 29, 2010, 09:35:43 PM
Martin, Maggi, Zhirair,  your information are very helpful. Thank you. When I saw the striped flower the first time, I had the same thoughts like you. But all is normal with the corm, only the colour is unusual - and it`s a seedling, first blooming.

Gerd, I like C. nudiflorus. He has a wonderful redpurple colour in contrast to the orange stylus.
Einen schwedischen Crocus speciosus kenne ich allerdings bisher nicht ;D.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Gerdk on September 30, 2010, 10:28:05 AM
Gerd, I like C. nudiflorus. He has a wonderful redpurple colour in contrast to the orange stylus.
Einen schwedischen Crocus speciosus kenne ich allerdings bisher nicht ;D.

Hagen,
Thanks for compliments!

The speciosus of Swedish origin was donated by a generous Swedish forum member who told that this crocus lives since 7 decades in his country - well adapted to northern conditions. So I dare to call him Swedish - although of course this isn't the ancient origin.  ;)

Gerd
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on September 30, 2010, 11:10:30 AM
Some out today
Crocus laevigatus
Crocus goulimyi
Crocus mathewii
Crocus nerimaniae
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Martin Baxendale on September 30, 2010, 11:41:35 AM
That nerimaniae is a real cutie.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on September 30, 2010, 12:12:01 PM
Gerd,
I'm pleased to see your C. nudiflorus flowering in the new garden! The swedish speciosus is a beauty too!

Tony,
wunderful croci species in flower :o 8) I concur with Martin.

Your C. laevigatus is surprisingly early in flower and resembles C. biflorus ssp. melantherus from appearance.
Usually C. laevigatus is said to be a late autumn/winter/early spring flowerer.
Does it have white anthers?
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Tony Willis on September 30, 2010, 12:38:41 PM
Armin

yes it has white anthers.None of the others in the pot are flowering yet.

Mathew says its season varies from October to March. In the wild C. nerimaniae does not flower until late October,it may be my watering regime and the cool weather that has brought them on early.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 30, 2010, 04:27:21 PM
Crocus thomasii   

From Archibald seed (353.210) - no data. Two colour forms.   
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on September 30, 2010, 07:48:37 PM
Tony,
thanks for your reply - indeed moist and temperature drops seem to be the important factors to force autuum growth.

Gerry,
superb C. thomasii. A species I'd like to grow in the garden but I'm hesitant as I can't guarantee summer drought during dormancy.
Did you apply a strict drought during summer dormancy to force flowering?

Today another fine form of C. kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus coll. HKEP 9027 opened flowers today.
This year it is darker compared last year. And is larger in size compared to the other clone flowering now (in the background IMG_3757) and I posted recently.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 30, 2010, 09:00:11 PM
Very nice crocus Armin.

As regards C. thomasii, these plants were kept completely dry at a temperature of 20-25º C throughout the summer. I don’t think they would  flower in the open garden here.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on September 30, 2010, 09:07:53 PM
Gerry,
that's exactly what I supposed too :(
I'll refrain from that idea. It would be nonsense to produce such costly compost ;D
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Martin Baxendale on September 30, 2010, 09:39:58 PM
Last year I selected out about 15-20 different seedlings of Crocus nudiflorus with yellow stigmas instead of the usual orange-red. They're not as showy as the orange-red ones, but quite nice for a contrast. Most aren't flowering this year as I lifted and potted them in growth, but here are two that are. Should I label them C. nudiflorus leucostigma or just C. nudiflorus (yellow stigma)?

Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Martin Baxendale on September 30, 2010, 09:46:08 PM
Back in the summer I said I was going to lift all the C. nudiflorus from the high-humus bed that they've completely taken over. Well, guess what didn't end up getting done?! (like so many other things). I'll take another pic when the leaves are up, to show just how thickly they're growing - the bed is jammed full of their corms.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on September 30, 2010, 09:56:52 PM
Martin,
I'm no taxonomist! Can't give you a recommendation for your naming.

But what a great number of C. nudiflorus flowers! I envy you - I've just one single flower! :(
I thought this species is stoloniferous when left undisturbed but my clone does not show this feature (yet) ???

How are the experiences from the crocus experts?
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Martin Baxendale on September 30, 2010, 10:49:07 PM
My nudiflorus spread and increase a lot by stolons, which travel a long way in the high-humus bed, but also by seed. Maybe the very light high-humus compost, which can stay quite moist during summer, encourages stolon production. My main problem right now is our one-year-old new black cat which, when we let it out, races around the garden at incredibly high speeds, knocking the autumn crocus flowers flat. Luckily the nudiflorus keep producing new flowers week after week, since they're not all one clone.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: ian mcenery on September 30, 2010, 11:50:02 PM
Nice pics everyone. Here is my tournefortii just starting to flower. This one has done well for me outside and I now have some reasonable clumps

Also though not a crocus :o  Colchicum speciosum album which also is a good doer
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 01, 2010, 07:23:42 AM
Martin, your population of nudiflorus shows, they like your garden very much. I never saw C nudiflorus in the wild, but it must be the same imposing picture like in your garden. Do they have yellow or orange styli?


Ian, two perfect pics of very fine autumn bulbs.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 01, 2010, 07:30:19 AM
Oh Martin, now red your earlier comment about the colour of stylus. Forget my question. Because you have a lot of seedlings,is there a variation in the colour of the tepales too?
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on October 01, 2010, 10:16:55 AM
Martin,
thanks for your comment. Maybe I have to wait more longer until it sets stolons...

I'm familiar with your young cat problem - but be assured when your cat (or tomcat) gets older and left outside unattended it only edges its claws on your favourite shrub or tree and uses the next best sand/grit bed with your rarest galanthus bulbs as privately owned toilet ;D Tomcats will underhandly regular fertilize your most loved perennial with urine and you will wonder why there suddenly appear stunted or brown dotted leaves and there is a penetrant smell in that corner...
In summer nights neighbour cats will visit and meet in your garden almost daily for wild noisy parties with sex and violence or vice versa :o ;D
As reimbursement your cat presents you dead or half dead mice on your terrace or you find cut-off mice hads and gall bladders in a blood-bath...Hihi!
They are so cute! ::) ;D ;D
Nevertheless we love our cat(s)!

Ian,
very nice clumps of C. tournefortii and Co. speciosum album. 8)
Does your C. tournefortii set seed and how deep did you lay the corms?
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Martin Baxendale on October 01, 2010, 02:23:05 PM
Oh Martin, now red your earlier comment about the colour of stylus. Forget my question. Because you have a lot of seedlings,is there a variation in the colour of the tepales too?

Not much variation in flower colour unfortunately, Hagen. Some are just a little paler or darker, and some flowers larger while some are smaller, but no major variations. The differences in the flowers in my pictures are mainly because of the different ages of the flowers - they start dark and become paler.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: ian mcenery on October 01, 2010, 10:24:13 PM


Ian,
very nice clumps of C. tournefortii and Co. speciosum album. 8)
Does your C. tournefortii set seed and how deep did you lay the corms?

Armin my tournefortii as far as I can remember never sets much seed though it bulks up well. It is planted in a raised bed I call my scree which is about 50% gravel and the corms are planted with their tops not more than 25mm from the surface and seem to settle at this depth naturally
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on October 02, 2010, 09:45:11 PM
Ian,
thanks. I'm surprised about the low growth deep. Interesting. I wonder if they would survive under a more continental (colder) climate.
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: ian mcenery on October 03, 2010, 12:09:34 AM
Ian,
thanks. I'm surprised about the low growth deep. Interesting. I wonder if they would survive under a more continental (colder) climate.

Armin

If you have a few spare why not give it a go. As I said mine are in a well drained spot in a raised bed and last winter which was quite harsh was no problem
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Armin on October 03, 2010, 09:14:29 PM
Ian,
I do not have any. C. tournefortii is still on my wishlist. Usually I select species which can be pleased in my garden without any protection from sudden rainsplashs in summer or strong frosts in winter/early spring. I will buy some next season giving conditions like yours. ;D
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: ian mcenery on October 05, 2010, 02:18:03 PM

Ian,
I do not have any. C. tournefortii is still on my wishlist. . ;D

Armin I have sent you a personal email
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: gote on October 07, 2010, 01:58:26 PM
Gerd, I like C. nudiflorus. He has a wonderful redpurple colour in contrast to the orange stylus.
Einen schwedischen Crocus speciosus kenne ich allerdings bisher nicht ;D.
Hagen,
Thanks for compliments!
The speciosus of Swedish origin was donated by a generous Swedish forum member who told that this crocus lives since 7 decades in his country - well adapted to northern conditions. So I dare to call him Swedish - although of course this isn't the ancient origin.  ;)
Gerd
Hallo Gerd,
I just saw your post. I am glad it looks so well. Just a question: In my place it is much earlier than the commercial stock. Is it earlier also in your place?
Göte
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Gerdk on October 08, 2010, 11:28:39 AM
Hallo Gerd,
I just saw your post. I am glad it looks so well. Just a question: In my place it is much earlier than the commercial stock. Is it earlier also in your place?
Göte

Göte,
It seems your crocus is an early form. I can't compare it with a commercial stock but Erich Pasche, who lives only 25 km from here told me that his C. speciosus from different provenances started to flower just now.

Gerd

Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: gote on October 08, 2010, 02:24:35 PM
Meine sind bald vorbei. Weniger als die Hälfte ist noch blühend. Es ist gut zu wissen daß es eine permanente eigenschaft ist und nicht nur mein Klima.
Grüße
Göte
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: gote on October 08, 2010, 02:26:11 PM
Oops sorry I did not notice I was writing in German. I found it good that the earliness was in the genes and not because of my location.
Göte
Title: Re: Crocus September 2010
Post by: Janis Ruksans on October 08, 2010, 04:53:47 PM
Oops sorry I did not notice I was writing in German. I found it good that the earliness was in the genes and not because of my location.
Göte
The earliest of my speciosus forms started blooming from last days of July or in first week of August. Unfortunately all stock was destroyed by rodents.
Janis
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