Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: JPB on March 11, 2010, 09:44:30 AM
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What would you think of a topic "Germinating Now" on newly germinated seeds? Pictures of seedlings can be shown and details can be given on sowing time, cold-treatment, sowing medium, etcetera.
Hans
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An excellent idea, Hans! 8)
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Hi everyone!
Concerning bulbs Iīm a total beginner. I joined the SRGC last year and got my first batch of seeds from the seed exchange this winter. A big Thank You to all the generous seed donors!!!! I sowed my seeds a few weeks ago and now Iīm wondering how long it will take until the first growth appears. Amongst other things Iīve got some Acis, Fritillaria, several Freesias, Romuleas and Scillas.
Thank you for any comments!
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Hi Verena, welcome to the Forum..... I have merged your topic with another along the same lines.... I think this could prove a popular subject!
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So, I assume, as for the seeds photos thread, that one should be absolutely certain of the plant ID prior to posting?
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Well, Lori, I don't know.... surely it would be useful if one were to post what one THOUGHT were Species boggsii, and then perhaps an ID might be forthcoming from those clever Forumists who recognise such things?
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Ok, thanks... (Otherwise, I'd have to go back 2 or 3 years... still interesting perhaps, but somewhat after the fact! :))
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Well, Lori, I don't know.... surely it would be useful if one were to post what one THOUGHT were Species boggsii, and then perhaps an ID might be forthcoming from those clever Forumists who recognise such things?
OMG, I got germination on Species boggsii (syn. Species bogusiana), I can't wait ;D
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Photo shows Pancratium maritimum sown early december 2009 in pure Seramis (Inspired by Paul Cumbleton's paper in The Plantsman). Germination was really quick and >90% after a month. But then, the seedlings on the left (wild collected Mallorca through Blorn Malkmus)are smaller and less vivid then the ones on the right (wild collected Turkey 2009 through Tony Willis -Thanks again!-), conditions being equal. I keep these in strong artificial light at room temperature. My impression is, that these young plants do not yet have their seasonality that mature plants have. Provided that temperature and light are favourable, of course. Very clever, those young plants. There is no use in going into dormancy when you do not have built up enough reserves ;D
A week ago I have sown seeds of some 50 species (or of different populations of the same species, which is very intersesting BTW!!) and my pots with Fritillaria seeds are thawing (finally! :)). I'll post more later
Hans
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This thread should prove very useful and reassuring too. Witness the two pictures somewhere else (Helleborus?) of two Helleborus species with quite different first leaves. Bring it on Hans!
Talking of the seed pictures, Maggi what address should I send them to? Your private address? I have finally got started on that and though only one so far, there should be a number more over coming weeks and months.
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A bit worried (frightened?) at the layers peeling away from your avatar Mark. Usually in the centre of the onion there is the beginnings of the naked stem. :-[
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Lesley,it is fine to send them to me via info AT srgc.org.uk address.
Thanks!
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Itīs great to see how the seedlings of Pancratium maritimum look like. I collected some seeds of this beautiful species in Italy last year and just sowed them with all the seeds I got from the seed exchange. I really hope theyīll germinate as readily as the ones pictured.
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Okay, I'll give this a try... For scale, the pots are all 2 1/4" (6.5 cm) square.
All germinated indoors at room temperature without conditioning, unless otherwise noted. Mix is "soil-less mixture", with added sand, vermiculite and perlite - pretty slapdash.
Lupinus lepidus utahensis - germinated in 13 days after scarification
Taraxacum pseudoroseum - germ in 14 days
Salvia verbenacea - germ in 4 days
Dianthus petraeus ssp. noeanus - germ in 5 days
Useful???
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Lori, is that Salvia verbenacea from seed I sent you? I have had some difficulties with it...mayby it looses viability soon? When did you sow it?
Looking at you pictures, I guess you use vermiculite and perlite in your sowing mix?
Hans
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I have six pots of autumn flowering Narcissus germinating on a windowsill now. All sown on 21.1.10 I put them outside to start with but it was so cold that after a couple of weeks I took pity on them and brought them in.
N. cavanillesii, first up 27.2.10
N. miniatus (La Linea, Spain), first up 28.2.10
N. miniatus (Cadiz), first up 27.2.10
N. miniatus (Cadiz), this pot was kept indoors the whole time and benefited from the extra warmth, first up 11.2.10
N. serotinus, first up 1.3.10
N. viridiflorus, first up 26.2.10
Sown in a mixture of John Innes No 1 and Levington seed/cutting compost with added grit. The John Innes from my local garden centre tends to set like cement after a bit so I usually add some random ingredients to try and lighten it. The grit top dressing is hen flint grit from my local corn merchant, bought for my chickens but I use more than they do.
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Podophyllum seedlings of the dysosma section which have germinated over the last four weeks.
They were sown Sept/Oct straight from the berry as it ripened after cleaning in a gritty JI mixture. They have been kept frost free. A pot which has been frozen in the greenhouse is only just starting to germinate and will be another month before they appear above ground.
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Lori, is that Salvia verbenacea from seed I sent you? I have had some difficulties with it...mayby it looses viability soon? When did you sow it?
Looking at you pictures, I guess you use vermiculite and perlite in your sowing mix?
Hans
Yes, Hans, those are the seeds you sent me back in late August - thanks! They were sown on Feb. 20/10, and germination started Feb. 24/10. Strong germination - I had a whole little potfull, from which I've potted on about 6. Yes, as I mentioned, I add vermiculite, perlite and sand to "soil-less potting mix".
If it has been difficult to start for you, it may be, rather than losing viability very quickly, that it actually has germination inhibitors that break down with time, so that germination improves with a period of dry storage? I don't know - just one of the many possibilities, as documented by Dr. Norm Deno, god of seed germination study. (If I recall correctly, this particular species was not one he studied) :)
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More, if anyone is interested...
All at room temp, no conditioning unless otherwise indicated.
Acantholimon kotschyi ssp. laxispicatum - germ in 4 days Pavelka; Turkey, Kop Dag, 1600m, 2008 seed.
Acantholimon saxifragiforme - germ in 10 days Pavelka; Turkey, Urgup, 1600m.
Achillea aleppica ssp zederbaueri - germ in 3 days Pavelka; Turkey, Karaman, 1600m, 2008 seed.
Achillea falcata - germ in 12 days Pavelka; 1600m, Dedegol Dag, Turkey, 2008 seed.
Alyssum lepidoto-stellatum - germ in 12 days Pavelka; 1700m, E of Sivas, Turkey, 2006 seeds.
Arabis androsacea - germ in 6 days Holubec; ex. Turkey: Ala Dag, 2200m 2009 seed.
Arnebia densiflora - germ in 11 days Pavelka; 2500m, Bolkar Dag, Turkey
Arenaria Arnebia kansuensis - germ in 3 days NB. One of these two "arnebia" seems to be mislabelled! Pavelka bonus seed - apparent typo on the seed packet, as Arenaria kansuensis is offered in the seed list.
Bolanthus cherierioides - germ in 10 days Pavelka; 2100m, Sultan Dag, Turkey
Christollea flabellata - germ in 8 days Holubec; Tajikistan: Yazgulem Range, Pamir, 3800m; 2006 seed.
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Again, all at room temp, no conditioning unless indicated:
Codonopsis bhutanica - germ in 9 days NARGS
Codonopsis grey-wilsonii - germ in 6 days SRGC, NARGS
Convolvulus holosericeus - germ in 8 days after scarification Pavelka; 1500m, Bozkir, Turkey; 2008 seed.
Cyananthus microphyllus - germ in 20 days SRGC
Delosperma alpinum - germ in 7 days NARGS
Dianthus pinifolius ssp. serbicus - germ in 4 days NARGS
Dracocephalum foetidum - germ in 3 days Pavelka; 1700m, Changai Mts., Mongolia; monocarpic, 2003 seed.
Eremostachys speciosa - germ in 8 days Holubec; Kazakhstan: Foothills of Zailiski Ala Tau, 1400m, 2009 seed.
Inula acaulis ssp. caulescens - germ in 6 days Pavelka; 2000m, Sipikor Dag, Turkey; 2006 seed.
Krascheninnikovia lanata - germ in 3 days wild-collected
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Gail,
Could you please tell me where you obtained your seed of viridiflorus? I kept my bulbs of this narcissus for six years and flowered it twice but last year the bulbs just vanished and I would like to get it again.
Jim Willis
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Lori, you're getting strong germination for so many exciting items, you will be busy making room for all these. Since you germinate all of these indoors at room temperature, do you run fans continuously to prevent mold? How do you prevent etiolation until it is warm enough to plant outside?
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Hi, Mark.
I've never used fans and don't get mold growth. The air... both indoors and out here... has very low humidity, and is not really conducive to mold growth (at least I assume that is the reason)... moss algae, yes, but I just remove it from the surface of the soil in the pots if it bothers me. (Actually, I mostly just leave it, if the truth be known.)
Re. etoliation... Each shelf on my seed-starting stand (Thanks, Stuart - he built it! :D) has two 4 foot fluorescent light canopies, each with 2 lights - completely standard hardware store stuff. Each shelf holds 4 commercial plastic plant trays; each tray holds 48 of the 2 1/4" black plastic alpine pots that seem to be commonly used around here. The light canopies are suspended on chains so that they can be lowered to sit right atop the seedlings initially, then raised as the plants grow. It seems to provide enough light to get seedlings through the 13 weeks or so that I'm usually growing them inside, before I can chuck them outside after most of the frost risk has passed.
We did have a 1000-watt halide light system once in our basement for overwintering tropical water lilies and other tropicals - a hugely better quality of light (incredibly intense - looking at it causes retinal damage), but not pleasant things to have around. I'm happy with fluorescent light... :)
Yes, I'm very pleased with germination rates on my Pavelka and Holubec orders! I received the Pavelka order first, so have more results there so far, as compared to the Holubec seeds planted later. Also, the ones I'm showing are obviously ones that are easy germinators - I expect to bomb out with more of those that have more complex germination requirements (as usual), but I'm already more than satisfied!
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lots of great stuff lori!
i havent started on warm sow stuff yet--just no room indoors with some tender south africans etc under lights; i'm still working on some cold stratification stuff--very late, so i'm hoping for a cold spring...lol--i have them behind the house where the snow departs very slowly...
the warm stuff is mostly going to have to wait til it can go outside, so they will have to deal with the short season...
eager to hear how you do with the Christollea--its one i was looking at, but didn't get yet this year, though i have some other high asians to try--in an odd bonus/substitution situation, i ended up with 6 saussureas when i had originally only ordered one!! i can't find much on germination for the asian saussureas, so i'm hoping a few will come up!
Krascheninnikovia lanata is exciting too--if you are able to get seed again, i will ask you to try for some extra for me--i was only able to get down there during flowering season, no seeds; i tried a small cutting, but i think my cutting rooting skills need some real honing, no results....
i will add that i also do not get mold, even for those plants kept in baggies--though on a few (not everything) i have noticed something--algae? green and slimy start on the grit--didnt seem to be affecting the plants, but don't know if it would have--i just opened the baggies and that was that.... i also have them under regular fluorescents and no problem--in fact my bulbs should be replaced, and its still ok--no doubt they would make weak adults if kept there (for full sun plants), but no prob on seedlings--in fact i have cyclamen purpurascens and townsendia started in the fall, and they have been fine all winter under the lights, the townsendia a real surprise...
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Tony which species is the Podophyllum in the larger pot, on the left please?
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eager to hear how you do with the Christollea--its one i was looking at, but didn't get yet this year, though i have some other high asians to try--in an odd bonus/substitution situation, i ended up with 6 saussureas when i had originally only ordered one!! i can't find much on germination for the asian saussureas, so i'm hoping a few will come up!
Krascheninnikovia lanata is exciting too--if you are able to get seed again, i will ask you to try for some extra for me--i was only able to get down there during flowering season, no seeds; i tried a small cutting, but i think my cutting rooting skills need some real honing, no results....
Cohan,
I've grown 4 species of Asian Saussurea from seed (last year and now) - those species, at least, were easy, warm germinators, no conditioning required, so I'd just try that first assume the same behavior, as a first guess, with yours.
I'll check if I still have seed of winterfat (I snatched one bit of a seedhead last summer), and I'll send it if so.
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Gail,
Could you please tell me where you obtained your seed of viridiflorus? I kept my bulbs of this narcissus for six years and flowered it twice but last year the bulbs just vanished and I would like to get it again.
Jim Willis
Hi Jim,
The seed came from Derrick Donnison-Morgan of Simply Species (Semillas Espaņoles). See http://www.simplyspecies.co.uk/index.html The website doesn't always work properly for me but there is an email link at the bottom of the page.
Gail
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Tony which species is the Podophyllum in the larger pot, on the left please?
Lesley - I was trying to figure that out as well after Tony PM'ed me the shot. I'd say pleianthum or versipelle.
Here is a shot of a few of my toothed pleianthum seedlings, excuse the lighting as they're under sodium lights.
Also shoots are poking up on pleianthum x delavayi from Philip MacDougall, they are sooooo glossy.
Tony may be in Greece at the moment.
johnw
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eager to hear how you do with the Christollea--its one i was looking at, but didn't get yet this year, though i have some other high asians to try--in an odd bonus/substitution situation, i ended up with 6 saussureas when i had originally only ordered one!! i can't find much on germination for the asian saussureas, so i'm hoping a few will come up!
Krascheninnikovia lanata is exciting too--if you are able to get seed again, i will ask you to try for some extra for me--i was only able to get down there during flowering season, no seeds; i tried a small cutting, but i think my cutting rooting skills need some real honing, no results....
Cohan,
I've grown 4 species of Asian Saussurea from seed (last year and now) - those species, at least, were easy, warm germinators, no conditioning required, so I'd just try that first with yours.
I'll check if I still have seed of winterfat (I snatched one bit of a seedhead last summer), and I'll send it if so.
thanks, lori, i'll try that with at least a few of each..some i may just pot and stick outside now anyway since i don't have much room indoors; if they want warm they'll just wait...
have you tried soroseris or waldheimia? haven't been able to find anything on them either; i tend to expect asteraceae to be warm germinators, but i guess there are exceptions...
have you overwintered any of the asian saussureas outside yet?
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have you tried soroseris or waldheimia? haven't been able to find anything on them either; i tend to expect asteraceae to be warm germinators, but i guess there are exceptions...
have you overwintered any of the asian saussureas outside yet?
I'm also trying Soroseris umbrella this year, and have some germination after 10 days.
I planted out several Saussurea nelapensis last year; waiting to see how they do this year. If they're deciduous err, herbaceous, I suppose they might be OK... if not, they're dead. ;D
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More germination at room temp, no conditioning unless indicated.
Lysimachia lichiangensis - germ in 10 days NARGS
Michauxia campanulata - germ in 8 days Pavelka; 1600m, Ala Dag, Turkey; monocarpic; 2008 seed.
Napaea dioica - small amount of germ in 18 days after scarification Gardens North
Omphalodes kuzinskyanae - germ in 5 days NARGS
Onobrychis argyrea - germ in 4 days after scarification Pavelka; 1500m, Urgup, Turkey
Ononis spinosa - germ in 4 days after scarification NARGS
Rheum rhizostachyum - germ in 5 days Holubec; Tajikistand: Yazgulem Range, Pamir, 3800m; 2006 seed
Satureja montana illyrica - germ in 13 days SRGC
Scutellaria altissima
Scutellaria zhongdianensis - germ in 18 days SRGC
Senecio polyodon - germ in 7 days
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Some lovely, and different stuff there Lori. Are you going to have room to grow it all? ;D
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David, the answer is a cautious and forward-looking yes... we have plans for greatly expanding the new rock garden area from last year. 8)
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I'm also trying Soroseris umbrella this year, and have some germination after 10 days.
I planted out several Saussurea nelapensis last year; waiting to see how they do this year. If they're deciduous, I suppose they might be OK... if not, they're dead. ;D
i have soroseris rosularis to try;
will you plant most of these things in the ground the first year, or do you keep any of them in the pots (sunk i would assume) til the next year?
will be waiting anxiously to hear about the saussureas..
what was your snow cover like this year? i still have a lot in open and/or shaded areas--that is everywhere except on the sunny sides of buildings, along paths, and around trees; rock garden area is still completely covered, as are my proto woodland beds, and a couple of other areas i plan to develop...
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Everything will get planted out this year. (I have no interest in taking care of things in pots for any longer than necessary.) We will be increasing the size of last year's small tufa garden by 4-5 fold, after taking out a huge red leaf rose (that had been failing for the last couple of years for unknown reasons) and a couple of nanking cherries... And then we have also been talking about taking out some groundcover junipers and extending the crevice garden through a much larger area; not sure if that will happen this year. Very exciting, anyway.
We had another snowy winter, with unusual snow cover (almost complete snow cover from December until recently) - that's 2 years in a row now! It's mostly gone in the yard now, though, except for a few patchs. We've been cutting off perennials the last couple of weekends... so I'll be crippled again tomorrow (sore muscles from bending over)! ;D
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Very useful information here!
Lori, I notice that you keep seeds of (cold-)temperate species also at room temperature. I do have them in my greenhouse now (at approx. 5C) but I will put them in my room like you do. I have good fluorescent lamps here so no problem.
First seeds ar germinating of the bunch I seeded ten days ago! All at room temperature: Salvia apiana; Salvia verbenacea; Lavandula multifida. More later...
I use small containers with cover and holes drilled for air and drainage. I was collecting these from the Chinese restaurant (http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/2089.gif) (http://www.cool-smileys.com/smiley-eating-sushi) but now I bought a box of 500....this was the smallest amount available. At least I don't have to eat Chinese two times a day in the sowing season ;D
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Lori, I notice that you keep seeds of (cold-)temperate species also at room temperature. I do have them in my greenhouse now (at approx. 5C) but I will put them in my room like you do. I have good fluorescent lamps here so no problem.
Yes, unless it is a species that actually requires a cold growth period for proper development, there doesn't seem to be any adverse effects from growing seedlings indoors at room temperature... or am I missing something? ??? More light intensity indoors would no doubt be an improvement to my system, I suppose.
I also stratify the seeds that need it outdoors most years (potted up in pots in trays and then chucked outdoors, and covered with snow or not, depending if there is any). This year, though, most of these species were unfamiliar and not possible even to research (plus I'm lazy!), so I just went by trial and error... if no germination within a 2-3 weeks, I put them in the cold room (~40 deg F) and will pull them out again later on. I suppose another reason to start them indoors is to end up with reasonably-sized little plants by planting-out time... they get a significant advantage over the pots set outdoors here, which may be little more than 2 seed leaves by planting-out time. Hardening off the indoor-grown seedlings is easy; I just set the trays out in the shade for a few days, and then they are ready to be planted out.
Hans, after you have germination in your fast food containers, what kind of pots/containers do you use for potting on? (Am I the only one with a collection of hundreds of plastic alpine (and other) pots? :o)
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After 30 years of trying......
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Hmmmm.... thirty years trying to get Davidia involucrata to germinate.... success at last... but, errrrmmm, now how long to flower? :o :-X
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Everything will get planted out this year. (I have no interest in taking care of things in pots for any longer than necessary.) We will be increasing the size of last year's small tufa garden by 4-5 fold, after taking out a huge red leaf rose (that had been failing for the last couple of years for unknown reasons) and a couple of nanking cherries... And then we have also been talking about taking out some groundcover junipers and extending the crevice garden through a much larger area; not sure if that will happen this year. Very exciting, anyway.
We had another snowy winter, with unusual snow cover (almost complete snow cover from December until recently) - that's 2 years in a row now! It's mostly gone in the yard now, though, except for a few patchs. We've been cutting off perennials the last couple of weekends... so I'll be crippled again tomorrow (sore muscles from bending over)! ;D
i was wondering what you'd be removing to make more rock garden space--i didn't have the impression you had any ground sitting fallow...lol
i also don't want too many things in pots too long,esp those that don't like to dry out i'm not a good enough waterer;
i also found myself with seeds i couldn't find any information on, and/or the little to be found contradictory;
i agree with you reasons for indoor start--can't hurt to give the poor things the longest season possible first year--especially in this climate where the season is so short--even a lot of plants that can manage our minimum temps actually come from places with a longer growing season...
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Hmmmm.... thirty years trying to get Davidia involucrata to germinate.... success at last... but, errrrmmm, now how long to flower? :o :-X
congratulations on patience rewarded!
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I'm taking it with me when I go !!!
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Many thanks Gail, I shall try my luck. Jim Willis
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(Am I the only one with a collection of hundreds of plastic alpine (and other) pots? :o)
Nope, I have @ 14 trays of seedlings ::)
Not game enough to start more seeds, some of the previous ones germinated so fast.
I'm doing what you do btw, with regards to seeds you can't get germinating information on. I do them at room temps and if nothing happens after a few weeks it's into the fridge with them.
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After 30 years of trying......
Giles, on the Pacific Bulb Society newsgroup, someone posted an off-topic message looking for seed of Davidia involucrata. I stepped in and replied that normally I could easily collect seed of this (Davidia involucrata vilmoriniana), it grows at Mt. Auburn Cemetary in Cambridge Massachusetts, a historic cemetery/arboretum close to where I used to work. Via PM I received about a dozen requests for seed. Since I'm unemployed and not closeby anymore, I was able to make the special 84-mile roundtrip commute twice, and was only able to get enough seed for two of those requests (and some for me). One can pick up the large walnut-sized pods after they've fallen (they cannot be picked from the tree for several reason, one being that it would be frowned upon), and on my second visit in late November, even after all the leaves had shed, the pods still mostly hung on tight to the bare branches.
One correspondent gave a link to specific directions on how to germinate Davidia involucrata, let me know if you're still interested, although since you got germination, maybe you don't need it now.
Also, see the interesting SRGC thread on "Cemetery plants", I posted a link and some photos at Mt. Auburn Cemetery:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5069.0
Photos of this remarkable tree, also known as the Dove Tree, Ghost Tree, or Handkerchief Tree (I like the last name).
http://www.halesia.nl/images/bomen/51/Davidia-involucrata1.jpg
http://www.koju.de/pflanzen_pictures/DAVIDIA_involucrata_vilmoriniana_250_1.jpg
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Zakdoekjesboom_bloemen_(Davidia_involucrata).jpg
...hanging fruit:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Davidia_involucrata_vilmoriniana1.jpg
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After 30 years of trying......
wow it look as as though it is romping away!
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After 30 years of trying......
Giles,
I knew the frustration not have any germination by the seeds of Davidia. In the nursery we have a species of about ca. 120 years. A lot of fruits every year, but germination only 1 or 2 from more than 100 seeds. Often only one species are growing in arboreta or botanical garden. But when you can grow 2 or 3 species together the germination is excellent.
From the last sowing (about 100 seeds) more than 40 germinate.
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After 30 years of trying......
Giles,
I knew the frustration not have any germination by the seeds of Davidia. In the nursery we have a species of about ca. 120 years. A lot of fruits every year, but germination only 1 or 2 from more than 100 seeds. Often only one species are growing in arboreta or botanical garden. But when you can grow 2 or 3 species together the germination is excellent.
From the last sowing (about 100 seeds) more than 40 germinate.
I have heard it said that the whole pod of Davidia should be sown and that only one will come up if the seed is viable. Is that true?
var. vilmoriniana is decidedly hardier than straight d. involucrata.
johnw
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John,
we do it in an other way. The hole fruit in a pot of hot water. One/two weeks later the fleshy "cover" can be removed.
Than put the fruits in a plastic bag with peat or other potting soil. The bag go in the freezer, till spring, when the seeds will be sown. Peat/potting soil not wet.
Germination can take 3 years.
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var. vilmoriniana is decidedly hardier than straight d. involucrata.
johnw
[/quote]
Davidia involucrata var. vilmoriana is the introducing from french nursery Vilmorin. Seeds collected by a french missionary.
Davidia involucrata I think is a introducing from a English nursery some years later. Maybe via Arnold Arboretum.
But I have no knowledge about the hardiness of the Davidia. Hardiness Zone 6 ( -10 to 0 Fahrenheit; -20 to 17,5 C) is possible.
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Davidia involucrata var. vilmoriana is the introducing from french nursery Vilmorin. Seeds collected by a french missionary.
Davidia involucrata I think is a introducing from a English nursery some years later. Maybe via Arnold Arboretum.
But I have no knowledge about the hardiness of the Davidia. Hardiness Zone 6 ( -10 to 0 Fahrenheit; -20 to 17,5 C) is possible.
The plant grown at Arnold Arboretum is var. vilmoriniana (and so are the two specimens at Mt. Auburn Cemetery), and is hardy at least Zone 6, but others say Zone 5, which I would agree with. I had a nice plant that I bought mailorder, it sat in a pot for 4 years outside, merely plunged into pine bark mulch, it it didn't show the slightest bit of winter damage. I lost it one summer during a long dry period when I didn't water it enough.
Davidia seed recommendations and information
http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1638
Here's a nursery (wholesale) that sells 10 varieties of Davidia! Useful as a reference just to see these variable forms, I never knew they existed until recently:
Buchholz Nursery
http://www.buchholznursery.com./
http://www.buchholznursery.com./plant_library_search.html?text=index:D&page=4
http://www.buchholznursery.com./plant_library_search.html?text=index:D&page=5
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Uli
Yes D. involucrata was collected by Wilson for the Arnold Arboretum who sent it on to England. After all the trouble he took to collect it it turned out his was the tender one (in eastern North America at least) and the one collected by the Vilmorin Nursery - several years before and unbeknownst to Wilson after walking how many kilometres? - was the hardier one. D. i. var. vilmoriniana is thoroughly hardy in Boston but the other can freeze to the ground in a cold winter, this according to the propagator there Jack Alexander. How tragically ironic. I'd say -20 to 17,5 C is more to var. vilmoriniana's liking at least here.
Mark - Good grief what a selection of Davidias. Haven't been to B&B for a dog's age. Somehow I think a variegated D. might detract from the flowers don't you think. It would be interesting to know if any are var. vilmoriniana. They don't care much about such matters out west as they're all hardy for them.
Jack A. sent us a small whip of Vilmorin's back in the 80's. I air-layered several plants from it. Mother was planted in the Halifax Public Gardens and it grew like mad but the idiots whipper-snippered it to death. I was as mad as h.... The other went to the Annapolis Royal Historic Gardens as a big plant but it died after a very dry summer. It took awhile to find the true Vilmorin once again and they are fine so far. The leaves are glabrous on the Vilmorin var. Dick Jaynes at Broken Arrow sells the real mccoy.
I understand "Sonoma' has proven to be a tender one unfortunately, even in the mid-Atlantic States.
How long do they take to flower in Mass.? Do you grow the pink one? ;)
johnw
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How long do they take to flower in Mass.? Do you grow the pink one? ;)
johnw
There's a pink one???... "get out of here!" :D I've never heard of a pink one. I only know by anectdotal internet info that these take up to 15 years to flower from seed.
It should be noted, that the flowers have a decidely unpleasant scent, and the tree even in full flower, is somehow not overly conspicuous... the oversized white flowers not white-enough, or they are presented alongside large light green foliage that blend and compete for visual attention, do not create as much of a floral spectacle as one might think, although I still think it is a remarkable and outstanding ornamental tree. Far showier in the landscape are familiar flowering trees like Cornus florida or C. kousa.
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Nope, I have @ 14 trays of seedlings ::)
Whoa!! So how many species/varieties is that? Sounds like you must have plans to put in more rock gardens or beds too! ;)
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(Am I the only one with a collection of hundreds of plastic alpine (and other) pots? :o)
Heavens no! If I sow about 4-500 pots of seed per year, pot on some and leave the ungerminated ones for 1 or 2 or more years, the numbers climb quickly to astronomical figures. Surely this is one of the distinguishing characteristics of true plant lovers, this accumulation of assorted pots. ;D
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I'm taking it with me when I go !!!
The leaves could get badly singed. ;D
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There are at least two D var. vilmorina growing happily in the Gothenburg botanical garden. I got seeds from there this winter that have been cold stratified and I hope for the best.
There is actually one pretty large Davidida growing here in Stockholm as well. It is a fascinating sight when it flowers in the beginning of summer. It donīt know where it came from though, it must be rather old.
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How long do they take to flower in Mass.? Do you grow the pink one? ;)
johnw
John,
a pink one :P. Do you have some informations ?
We need 15-20 years to the first flower, normally. But we have a seedling, that "flowers" after 7-8 year without the white bracets. Two years later the tree flowers normally.
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There is actually one pretty large Davidida growing here in Stockholm as well. It is a fascinating sight when it flowers in the beginning of summer. It donīt know where it came from though, it must be rather old.
That is very interesting Lars. I think Stockholm is a bit colder than here biut perhaps the cold is not as persistent.
Might be a good idea to collect seeds from it sometime.
johnw
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There's a pink one???... "get out of here!"
Well it's really more red than pink. It's called 'Unglaublich', probably patented.
johnw
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Henrik found pink and red Davidia on a trip to China they have germinated and he hopes to have a spray (in flower) for his funeral.Take a bit of organising !!!
Jean
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There are at least two D var. vilmorina growing happily in the Gothenburg botanical garden. I got seeds from there this winter that have been cold stratified and I hope for the best.
I visited Gothenburg Botanical Garden in June when the Davidia trees were in flower, a lovely sight.
Edit: Well, not in flower actually. You can see the seedpods.
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There's a pink one???... "get out of here!"
Well it's really more red than pink. It's called 'Unglaublich', probably patented.
johnw
With a name that tranlates as 'Unbelievable', it seems that several folks thought the same way as McMark .
Henrik found pink and red Davidia on a trip to China they have germinated and he hopes to have a spray (in flower) for his funeral.Take a bit of organising !!!
Jean
I'm glad to hear Henrik is not contemplating his funeral any time soon! :o
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I'm glad to hear Henrik is not contemplating his funeral any time soon! :o
I too may get singed on the way down for that one.
johnw
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Quite so!!
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[/quote]
That is very interesting Lars. I think Stockholm is a bit colder than here biut perhaps the cold is not as persistent.
Might be a good idea to collect seeds from it sometime.
johnw
[/quote]
Yes John, I discovered the tree only two years ago and was quite astounded since I never thought a Davidia would survive here. But it stands in a very sheltered spot and the climate in Stockholm is normally not that cold because of the closeness to the Baltic sea (though this winter the sea is frozen). I forgot to check for seeds last autumn but I will definitely check the coming autumn. I think the seeds ripen pretty late in the season ...?
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Sorry, I really have to learn how to manage the "quote-function" (and everything else) on this forum :P
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Don't let it worry you, Lars, we can see what you mean and that is what is important, eh? 8)
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Thankīs Maggi ... and good night :)
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Quite so!!
re: singed
And as an accomplice you as well Jean. Though the one that posted a plastic nerine sometime ago will be quite charred.
johnw
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I think the seeds ripen pretty late in the season ...?
Lars - I recall them already on the ground in late September in Vancouver. Maybe a month later in Sweden and here, should we ever be blessed.
johnw
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I forgot to check for seeds last autumn but I will definitely check the coming autumn. I think the seeds ripen pretty late in the season ...?
Here in Massachusetts, the Davidia seeds fall VERY LATE. A few dropped off in October, but even after the tree completely shed its leaves, when I visited at the end of November, almost all seed "fruits" were still happily hanging from the bare branches. I think December might be a good bet, but of course, it might depend on the variety.
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Sown on March 6th 2010 and already germinated at room temperature. I keep them under strong fluorescent lights:
Salvia apiana (ex cult.)
Salvia candelabrum (ex cult.)
Salvia vervenacea (ex Quiberon, Brittany, France) The same source as Lori has, but only two have germinated...
Lavandula multifida (ex Cabo de Gata area, SE-Spain)
Ononis spinosa (ex De Muy, Texel, Holland)
All seed has come from one parent plant (self-fertilization).
I did cover some trays with vermiculite to keep the top airy and water-retaining. Vermiculite does not dry out very quickly like perlite does.
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Hans,
have you covered the boxes? Or all the time open?
Because I see holes at the side.
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Uli, I cover them and remove the covers once they germinate. It is not really necessary for fast germinating seeds, but the ones that need a long time are beter protected against desiccation of the soil. The holes on the sides have two advantages. First, the soil does not get sogged when the containers are outside in the rain. And second, I can stack them without loss of air circulation.
There is a picture in my earlier post
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Hans,
nice information transfer this immediately ;D Sowing time this morning.
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a few days ago, lori and i were talking here about himalayan saussureas--i had seed of six of these(not my plan, just happened that way...lol--not complaining at all though--every species seems fascinating; seed from holubec) and had found little information on sowing/pretreatment of them; lori mentioned having warm sown a couple with good results, along with a soroseris etc;
so i sowed in two groups, all of which got more or less room temperature for a day or so, then i split them, with one group going on the chilly floor in my unused back doorway (above freezing, but maybe not by much at night)-i use this as a prestaging area for seedpots i'm going to put outdoors-second group in warmer area under lights;
i think i finally got these all sown on the 16th, and today i looked and found germination on several of the Sauss under lights, and a couple in the cold area (not always the same germinating warm and cool, i have to take some notes on these), one species under lights having heavy germination already! so it must have been up at 2 or 3 days; i will keep watching the species that did not sprout yet and see if they prefer to do it warm or cold..; also germination beginning on Waldheimia tomentosa at warm..
another sowing, from alplains--Escobaria vivipara from arizona; although he suggests a 3 week cold stratification, this is not standard for any escobaria, so i thought i'd try it warm, first, and it was also up in several days..
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Well done with the Saussurea, Cohan. Germinating here now are Lilium rhodopaeum from wild collected seed. The seed was sown on 2/10/09 and left outside over the winter.
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Keep those Escobarias warm and humid, Cohan ;) Very few cacti need cold stratification and most are extremely easy to germinate, but contrary to all expectations they don't like direct sun and dry soil for the first few months of life. I start all cacti under plastic and artificial lights and I keep them that way for about 4 months, longer for very slow growing species. Escobarias are tougher than some, but still can't take full sun until at least six months old.
One exception is the very alpine cactus Maihuenia poeppegii. Cold stratification seems to help with germination, although simple aging also seems to break the dormancy. It also enjoys high light early in life although it should still be kept moist. Possibly quite a few people have this one in their alpine collection.
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Keep those Escobarias warm and humid, Cohan ;) Very few cacti need cold stratification and most are extremely easy to germinate, but contrary to all expectations they don't like direct sun and dry soil for the first few months of life. I start all cacti under plastic and artificial lights and I keep them that way for about 4 months, longer for very slow growing species. Escobarias are tougher than some, but still can't take full sun until at least six months old.
One exception is the very alpine cactus Maihuenia poeppegii. Cold stratification seems to help with germination, although simple aging also seems to break the dormancy. It also enjoys high light early in life although it should still be kept moist. Possibly quite a few people have this one in their alpine collection.
thanks, iann--yes, i was surprised about the idea of cold for escobaria (i have sown maihuenia after cold stratification, and i do have some aged seed that i will try eventually; pediocactus and sclero-maybe toumeya are said to need cold stratification) he also suggests it for several other cold zone cacti, echinocereus etc..
my seedlings are safely in a baggie under lights; i haven't decided whether to keep them under lights for a year or harden them off outside before fall...
simon--i guess, for some of the sauss, the germination was the easy part--now we'll see if i can grow them!
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Ian - thank you for the info on the Maihuenia. I got some last year and after it failed to show I popped the pot in the fridge for a month and it germinated immediately after I took it out again. Must have been fresh seed! Of course all but a few of them then damped off. The survivors are now perking up after the winter.
Here is a challenge: Anemones biflora, petiolulosa & tschernjaewii. They are dead easy to tell apart.. ;) ;D
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OK,
I'm not inferring any taxonomic significance here. You may note that in the first picture several of the seedlings have produced a first true leaf (which I have not observed in the other two species - generally cotyledons only in year one).
Also note the red stems. Whilst we are familiar with biflora having red flowers it varies considerably in the wild from yellow through bronze/copper to red. The picture here shows the underside of the cotyledons which vary from green to solid red and I wonder if this will correlate with the degree of red pigment in the eventual flowers?
I can't tell the other two apart at this stage, however the true leaves of tschernjaewii are very distinctive in year two. See the second picture. It's leaf is simply is not as divided and carrot-like as those of the other species, merely gently lobed, and retains this characteristic into adulthood.
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Perhaps the first true leaves are apparent in year one because the seeds overall, have better growing and developing conditions than they would receive in the wild. I remember Archibald saying only the cotyledons came in the first year. Maybe with more water...?
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This is a good point Lesley. Also the biflora germinated a month before the others and have had more time to develop further leaves. I agree with you. It seems nonsensical that a plant would be so fixed that it would effectively ignore the presence of available water & nutrients by limiting itself to just a pair of cotyledons - surely it would try to exploit the resources available? I will keep an eye on the others for signs of extra leaves.
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Patience is something I force myself to have, especially with old pots of seed. Yesterday saw germinations in some pots of onco Iris seed sown in October 2007, and also of Paeonia mascula sicula and Colchicum luteum- both sown in October 2008.
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OK,
I'm not inferring any taxonomic significance here. You may note that in the first picture several of the seedlings have produced a first true leaf (which I have not observed in the other two species - generally cotyledons only in year one).
Also note the red stems. Whilst we are familiar with biflora having red flowers it varies considerably in the wild from yellow through bronze/copper to red. The picture here shows the underside of the cotyledons which vary from green to solid red and I wonder if this will correlate with the degree of red pigment in the eventual flowers?
I can't tell the other two apart at this stage, however the true leaves of tschernjaewii are very distinctive in year two. See the second picture. It's leaf is simply is not as divided and carrot-like as those of the other species, merely gently lobed, and retains this characteristic into adulthood.
Darren when did you sow the anemones? I have just sown (January) seed of biflora (obviously not fresh) but from a good and reliable source so may have to wait a little. Could you say when it is normal for germination to take place in the wild?
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Same as any summer dormant bulb/tuber I guess Ian. I've always sown mine with the other bulbs in around september. Germination is usually evident at christmas time here but I suppose in the wild it may be delayed until snow-melt. You may well get germination from a winter / spring sowing (i have not tried it) but if you do I suggest you keep the seedlings cool & moist over summer to prevent them going dormant if possible. If nothing has shown by mid summer I'd dry the pots off a little (not dust dry) for a few weeks then put them outside in september. If you sowed in january then don't be surprised to see germination any day now.
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Thanks Darren I will keep an eye out ;)
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For me Anemone biflora sown in autumn, germinated in spring after snowmelt. They went dormant over summer and rested that way until the start of this month here. Mine are 1 and 2 years old- so fingers crossed they get to flowering size.
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For me Anemone biflora sown in autumn, germinated in spring after snowmelt. They went dormant over summer and rested that way until the start of this month here. Mine are 1 and 2 years old- so fingers crossed they get to flowering size.
Same here, apart from the snow melt ;)
Mine produced true leaves only in the second year though, so conditions were presumably less favourable than yours Darren.
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Thanks Simon & Ashley for confirming my guesses about germination calendar. I'm still a bit perplexed about the true leaves appearing. The seedlings have been protected and fed so it could have prompted them to advance a bit. Will see if the other two do the same thing though next month they will be wanting to go dormant so time is running out..
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I would assume that Juno irises in the wild will send up just the germination leaf the first year then a second leaf after a first dormancy, and some do this at home as well but frequently, here, they send a second leaf enfolded within the first, very soon after germination. It certainly happens with the easier species such as bucharica and magnifica but also with cycloglossa, narbuti, kuschakewiczii and others. I wonder is this too, better than wild conditions, or is it some determination to get well on the way while the going's good?
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germination is continuing on my himalayan seed:after only a week, i have seedlings on 4 of 6 species of saussurea--interestingly, they germinated at warm under lights, and in the cold on the floor of my back hall (just a tiny bit slower there);nothing yet on soroseris, and only one(warm) waldheimia;
surprisingly, dracocephalum poulsenii also started , at cold (moved to warm under lights now) this was one that i was sure i had read needed cold stratification.....
i've had to pull my haemanthus seedlings out from under the lights to make room for these!
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Cohan, it's only ones that NEED stratification to break down germination inhibitors whose germination will be delayed; ones that don't need it will germinate no matter what - life is a strong urge!
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Cohan, it's only ones that NEED stratification to break down germination inhibitors whose germination will be delayed; ones that don't need it will germinate no matter what - life is a strong urge!
yep!they are determined, and i'm sure my back hall is no colder than the himalayas in early spring! if they waited for completely warm weather, they'd be in for a short season, as with native plants here!
i was surprised by the sauss, as one of the few references i could find was to attempts to raise them for herbal medicine, in situ in the himalayas if i am remembering right, and now i forget the species, but its one of the cylindricals--medusa, or superba? too lazy to refind the reference now, but they suggested that germination was poor, and used stratification, and in one case removal of the seed coat! so i wasn't expecting much from these; actually i think those two species may be my weakest germinators, or among the non-germinators so far, so perhaps its true for some, but its only been a week..
on the flip side, i do have a lot of seed of woodies,and woodlanders, from ontario etc, that are among those that really do have difficult inhibitors to break down, so i am expecting a long road for some of those!
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I germinate some seed in pots or flats, left outside exposed to the elements to germinate when they're ready (or not), but my favored practice that I started about 5-6 years ago, was sowing seed directly in the soil where I want the plants to grow. Here's a couple examples.
Heleborus niger seedlings - I scratch in the seed near the mother plant... just noticed these today, still have their black caps on.
Tulipa bifloriformis - seeds scratched in around parent bulbs to help "bulk-up" the clumps. New seedlings from direct sowing in summer.
Tulipa bifloriformis - 2 year old seedlings in the center, at the top center, new seedlings from direct sowing in summer.
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I germinate some seed in pots or flats, left outside exposed to the elements to germinate when they're ready (or not), but my favored practice that I started about 5-6 years ago, was sowing seed directly in the soil where I want the plants to grow. Here's a couple examples.
Heleborus niger seedlings - I scratch in the seed near the mother plant... just noticed these today, still have their black caps on.
Tulipa bifloriformis - seeds scratched in around parent bulbs to help "bulk-up" the clumps. New seedlings from direct sowing in summer.
Tulipa bifloriformis - 2 year old seedlings in the center, at the top center, new seedlings from direct sowing in summer.
good work, mark...this is something i plan to do lots of as i get more beds going... seems so much easier at so many stages!
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Mum always suggests if you are sowing seed directly in the ground do so in a straight line, when they come up you will then know that they are meant to be there and won't weed them out ;D
Susan
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.......a little pot of Calochortus clavatus sown 2 April 2008 that I had quite forgotten about. Nice surprise.
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Mum always suggests if you are sowing seed directly in the ground do so in a straight line, when they come up you will then know that they are meant to be there and won't weed them out ;D
Susan
When I sow outside, I use two different techniques. For bulking up purposes, such as with Crocus, I sow directly around the mother clump. When sowing seed in a new spot, I always put in at least 2 labels front and back of the area sown, or in bigger patches, use 3-4 labels to denote the area sown. I'm sure with downpours and splashing some seed might jump their bounds, but largely this technique is very successful.
For Epimediums, I sow seed close to the mother plant (most seed will be hybrids) with the intention of gathering up the seedlings, label them as to what parent they came from, then plant those seedlings elsewhere.
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good work, mark...this is something i plan to do lots of as i get more beds going... seems so much easier at so many stages!
When I was working all these years, I could never properly attend to small pots with seedlings in them, invariably the either get too wet, too hot, too dry, or all of the above. So many years, I would get seedlings of bulbous plants, but rarely would they get past their first year. Never succeeded with a Tulipa species from seed... never! Just sow them outside and forget about them, no worries... and watch them happily develop over the years. It's a good technique for busy life styles.
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Just sow them outside and forget about them, no worries... and watch them happily develop over the years. It's a good technique....
Yes, it is, and so is scattering the rice/bulbils of Frits etc outside..... you'll be surprised what survives and thrives!
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.......a little pot of Calochortus clavatus sown 2 April 2008 that I had quite forgotten about. Nice surprise.
David can you take a photo please i've never seen Calochortus seedlings before.
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.......a little pot of Calochortus clavatus sown 2 April 2008 that I had quite forgotten about. Nice surprise.
David can you take a photo please I've never seen Calochortus seedlings before.
I will Dave, probably on Monday, weather permitting. They are quite unremarkable though, much like many other bulbous seedlings.
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I really have to get back to seed sowing again.
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A couple of items germinating. The first is Anthericum ramosum, one of my very favorite plants, making an elegant long-lived dsiplay in summer. While it makes loads of seed, in the past 8-9 years, have only found seedlings a couple times, which I gave away to friends visiting the garden. Last year, I helped it along by scratching in the seed immediately after harvesting it late summer/early fall, and I see lots of nice seedlings. The second photo shows the plant in flower mid July... an airy display of white-butterfly flowers. In the third image, self-sown seedlings of Tulipa clusiana forms, should be interesting to see what turns up. Didn't notice the thread-like seedlings in their first year, but then again I was working and away from my garden too much, these seedlings are obviously in their second year.
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I've always sown my seeds both own seed and from the groups or purchased, in small pots and by and large, have a lot of success but I'm strongly tempted to try this "sown around the mother" method, especially for my own seed of bulbous species but perhaps others too. Mark do you put the seed from the exchanges that way too? I'd be a little worried that the 3 or 4 seeds that come of many species might find the great outdoors a bit much for them. I guess the general weed situation would have to be pretty much under meticulous control too.
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I've always sown my seeds both own seed and from the groups or purchased, in small pots and by and large, have a lot of success but I'm strongly tempted to try this "sown around the mother" method, especially for my own seed of bulbous species but perhaps others too. Mark do you put the seed from the exchanges that way too? I'd be a little worried that the 3 or 4 seeds that come of many species might find the great outdoors a bit much for them. I guess the general weed situation would have to be pretty much under meticulous control too.
Good question Lesley. I resorted to direct sowing outside, as a harried working-man's solution, and it well exceeded my expectations. If I could convert my state of unemployment to a permanent state of being retired, I would probably return to a greater percentage of sowing seed in small pots, particularly if I got myself a greenhouse, but not entirely. My top 10 current guidelines might be:
1. Direct sow slow-germinators and long-to-mature plants, like Trillium, Tulipa, Crocus, and Acanthoprasum/Malanocrommyum Allium species, labeling their locations. Down-side, might end up with the familiar label graveyard for things that don't germinate.
2. Direct sow around various bulb species to bulk them up.
3. Direct sow plant species to encourage a "bulb lawn" or "wildflower pasture" effect, Cyclamen come to mind.
4. Direct sow easy-to-identify plant species... why fuss and bother with pots when a small bit of bare earth does the trick. Example, Anthericum ramosum... low results in pots, good results in the ground, then move them to where you want an airy spire of white.
5. Direct sow tricky plants like Castilleja or orchid species, maybe you'll get lucky.
6. Sow in pots or flats quick germinating plants. In my hardy Hibiscus hybridization program, I sow in pots, they come up like grass... but as of last year, I started direct sowing in the ground. I do start Magnolia species in flats, warm germinators that come up in 1-2 weeks from seed.
7. Sow in pots seed varieties for which very little seed was received.
8. Sow in pots seed varieties I want to take extra care in making sure of the variety or species, particularly when exploring a genus new to me.
9. Sow in pots plants that have tiny or minuscule seed.
10. Sow in pots species for which I am totally unfamiliar.
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All of those sound pretty sensible and give me plenty of scope for some experimentation. I'll start off with Crocus and Narcissus seed. David N worries about 150 pots of seed but I have over 1000 here at present, many of species such as Colchicums, Juno or Onco irises which I'm still hoping may produce something after 5 years or so. Anything I sow in the grownd will help to reduce future seed pot numbers. (And that isn't counting the pots which DID germinate and are waiting a year or two years before planting out or potting up, the frits, crocuses etc etc).
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After a late heavy snowfall earlier this month, followed by unseasonally warm weather this last week and now back to cool with rain- I have finally had germinations in pots of Onco and Juno Iris and Colchicum- some of which were sown in autumn 2007. Some of the Onco seed I direct sowed in the garden 2 years ago has come up now, as has seed from last autumn. I guess this shows we can try, but the vagaries of the weather and a plants requirements are quite hard to fathom ;)
I'm trying to cut back on the amount of seed I sow in pots, as the last few years here have shown me that black plastic pots and the bulgarian sunshine are not a good combination. Here it is a struggle for young plants trying to establish a root system and this is even with the use of shade netting. In the open garden the self sown and direct sown seedlings never look back.
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I still sow some seed in pots, starting to see some germination... Iris sintenisii ssp. brandzae.
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We have had rain for over 24hours here now- fantastic stuff! Today a pot of Crocus versicolor (from Archibald seed), which was sown in October 2007 has given me 5 blades of Crocus grass- I'm happy to have at least 50% germination after a wait of 2 1/2 years. I also have germination in Narcissus alcaracensis- again from a 2007 sowing. To prove how wet it has been, I noticed a bearded Iris seed, which has germinated on the landscaping fabric in the nursery today. I guess it must have fallen uncollected from the pod last summer. It already has its root down through the fabric into the sand below.
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Germinated in last few weeks
Corydalis fumariifolia
Lewisia nevadensis
Meconopsis horridula, amazed at the number that germinated and the fact it happened less than one week after sowing.
Trillium kurabayahii shows 1st and 2nd year seedlings
Trillium rivale
Androsace cylindrica x hirtella
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Sanguinaria canadensis, this seed from Kristl Walek and another pot from a friend who lives nearby was sown 2 years ago and both germinated this month.
Mike
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Meconopsis horridula, amazed at the number that germinated and the fact it happened less than one week after sowing.
Mike, it looks like you're going to have a horridula time pricking out all those seedlings :o ;D
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Mark
I have some friends who have a nursery, probably most will go to them.
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Mark, I hope your seedlings of I. sintenisii ssp brandzae turn out to be true (source?). I've had this several times and it has always turned out as I. setosa hookeri (or nana or whatever you want to call it). I remember brandzae as my mother grew it many years ago, a slim, elegant plant with very narrow upright leaves and a rather fine, spidery flower. I've never been able to find it since. :'(
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Mark, I hope your seedlings of I. sintenisii ssp brandzae turn out to be true (source?). I've had this several times and it has always turned out as I. setosa hookeri (or nana or whatever you want to call it). I remember brandzae as my mother grew it many years ago, a slim, elegant plant with very narrow upright leaves and a rather fine, spidery flower. I've never been able to find it since. :'(
Does it look correct in this photo: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/BeardlessIrises#brandzae
In my photo, you can see the label, it is from Pilous seed collected in the Vrancea Mountain, Romania... my guess is this is a good source.
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.......a little pot of Calochortus clavatus sown 2 April 2008 that I had quite forgotten about. Nice surprise.
David can you take a photo please i've never seen Calochortus seedlings before.
Here they are Dave. I said they were unremarkable ;D
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They look like onions to me ;D
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They look like onions to me ;D
Well they would, wouldn't they ;D
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Mark, yes, that's pretty much as I remember it. You see what I mean by a spidery flower. The affinity with I. sintenisii is obvious and I don't see why so many sources would be mis-naming as ssp brandzae, a form of I. setosa which is quite different. Likely it was one person in the first place and people who received it as such never bothered to check, before distributing it.
When yours are well grown on and flowering, I'll be asking for seed ;D unless I can get some in the meantime.
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More.... some new ones, others previously mentioned but now with true leaves...
1) Aubrieta canescens -warm, germ in 6 days Pavelka; 2500m, Bolkar Dag, Turkey, limestone rocks,dwarf compact cushions, many stemless pale pink solitary flowers, 2008 seed.
2) Arabis androsacea -warm, germ in 6 days Holubec; ex. Turkey: Ala Dag, 2200m, limestone scree; small cushions, white hairy rosettes, white flowers on 4cm long stems;2009 seed.
3) Inula acaulis ssp. caulescens -warm, germ in 6 days ;Pavelka - 2000m, Sipikor Dag, Turkey; dwarf perennial; 1-3 yellow flowers on scapes 48cm; moist places in mountains; 2006 seed.
4) Eremostachys speciosa -warm, germ in 8 days Holubec;Kazakhstan: Foothills of Zailiski Ala Tau, 1400m, mountain grassland; xeric plant 20-40cm, bipinnate leaves, 15cm long, large yellow flowers in compact racemes, 15cm long; 2009 seed.
5) Ajania tenuifolia -warm, germ in 8 days Holubec;China: Zheduo Shan, Sechuan, 4300m, alpine grassland; aff. Tanacetum; 2009 seed.
6) Convolvulus holosericeus -warm, germ in 8 days Pavelka;1500m, Bozkir, Turkey; dwarf compact cushions; silky silver short leavesk solitary stemless white flowers, white to pale yellow; dry stoney places; 2008 seed.
7) Dianthus arpadianus ssp. pumilus -warm, germ in 5 days but slow-growing; Pavelka;1700m, Kaz Dag, Turkey; dwarf compact hard cushions, silver short leaves, pink flowers, stemless or scapes to 5cm; stoney places, 2008 seed.
8 ) Inula heterolepis -warm, germ in 5 days Pavelka;1500m, Akkaya Dag, Turkey; limestone rocks; tufted white lanate plant, many smaller yellow flowers, 10-20cm; 2006 seed.
9)Phyllophyton camplanatum -warm, germ in 8 days Holubec; China: Beima Shan, Yunnan, 4500m, limestone scree; beautiful hairy Lamium, 5-12 cm high, imbricate reddish green leaves, long blue axillar flowers; 2008 seeds.
10) Bolanthus cherierioides -warm, germ in 10 days Pavelka;2100m, Sultan Dag, Turkey; dwarf compact cushions, many stemless pale pink solitary flowers, sunny stoney hills.
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Here is a tray of tecophilaea seedlings that poped up 2 weeks ago.
John B
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Aril species and hybrids have been slowly emerging from seed with cooler nights and days. With a welcome 30ml of rain I have started to plant out any pots that have shown germination. The plan is that with the soil still warm they should take off well before the frosts or relatively (for us) cold days ahead. Must get roses planted out too as autumn planting is so much better than winter or spring before the blast of summer.
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pediocactus and sclero-maybe toumeya are said to need cold stratification) he also suggests it for several other cold zone cacti, echinocereus etc.
None of these need cold stratification. Echinocereus are easy to germinate although there are species I haven't tried.
Pediocactus and Sclerocactus are difficult to germinate and one suggested technique is to put them through freeze thaw cycles, but they are quite capable of germinating without ever being cold. Scarification and patience are two other techniques :) They're difficult to keep alive though, some species verging on the impossible. I have three seedlings so far this year from four pots of seedlings.
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pediocactus and sclero-maybe toumeya are said to need cold stratification) he also suggests it for several other cold zone cacti, echinocereus etc.
None of these need cold stratification. Echinocereus are easy to germinate although there are species I haven't tried.
Pediocactus and Sclerocactus are difficult to germinate and one suggested technique is to put them through freeze thaw cycles, but they are quite capable of germinating without ever being cold. Scarification and patience are two other techniques :) They're difficult to keep alive though, some species verging on the impossible. I have three seedlings so far this year from four pots of seedlings.
pedio and sclero are mentioned in an article on the mesa gardens website, he advises the outdoor freeze/thaw treatment; perhaps like some others there are issues with the age of the seed?-older germinating better..i know people who have tried warm germination with pedios with no results..
i've heard pedios do not like warm summer nights..no problems here with that ;) overall, it seems at least some sp of pedio should do very well outdoors here..
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Fritz Hochstatter, possibly the leading expert on Pediocactus and possibly with the benefit of large quantities of seed straight off the plants, says:
The cleaned seeds, treated with fungicide are kept at 30°C by day and 15-20°C at night in a germination box/propagator. Those seeds that have not germinated after 2-3 weeks are carefully pricked-open with a needle and replanted in the germination box. After another 10-14 days furthe seeds will germinate. Its worth mentioning that the seeds are not cold (frosted) pretreated. They are germinated in a mix of peat and sand.
I don't find freezing necessary, but it will contribute to weakening tough seed coats. Pediocactus become dormant in summer and increasingly likely to rot. They grow incredibly quickly (for a cactus) during a short period at the end of winter, and less obviously a little in late summer or autumn. I'd guess that your winters are just too cold for even the hardiest Pediocactus. Pediocactus occur at lower and lower altitudes the further north you go, nearly down to sea level in Washington state. Maybe with ideal conditions and a sheltered spot. I find P. simpsonii and P. nigrispinus very tolerant of water in an English summer although the other species are very tricky all round.
I'm going to throw in a gratuitous picture because this is the time of year when Pediocactus do their stuff before it gets too hot :)
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Gratuitous flower photos.... don't you just love it!! ;)
That's a cute and cheery photo, Iann 8)
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All that baby pink and sunshine disguising a vicious base. ::)
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All that baby pink and sunshine disguising a vicious base. ::)
Yes! That's what I like about it!! ;)
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Lilium washingtonianum has been sitting and not moving for more than a month now (see photo). Does it need a cold-treatment or something to trigger development of the leaves? Or shoud I leave it and wait till next winter?
Thanks, Hans
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I was delighted to receive several paeonia spp from the exchange last year, germinating now with a range of different foliages & colours
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Fritz Hochstatter, possibly the leading expert on Pediocactus and possibly with the benefit of large quantities of seed straight off the plants, says:
The cleaned seeds, treated with fungicide are kept at 30°C by day and 15-20°C at night in a germination box/propagator. Those seeds that have not germinated after 2-3 weeks are carefully pricked-open with a needle and replanted in the germination box. After another 10-14 days furthe seeds will germinate. Its worth mentioning that the seeds are not cold (frosted) pretreated. They are germinated in a mix of peat and sand.
I don't find freezing necessary, but it will contribute to weakening tough seed coats. Pediocactus become dormant in summer and increasingly likely to rot. They grow incredibly quickly (for a cactus) during a short period at the end of winter, and less obviously a little in late summer or autumn. I'd guess that your winters are just too cold for even the hardiest Pediocactus. Pediocactus occur at lower and lower altitudes the further north you go, nearly down to sea level in Washington state. Maybe with ideal conditions and a sheltered spot. I find P. simpsonii and P. nigrispinus very tolerant of water in an English summer although the other species are very tricky all round.
I'm going to throw in a gratuitous picture because this is the time of year when Pediocactus do their stuff before it gets too hot :)
i think i must have read that before; i only had one seed batch of pedios this year--we'll see what (part) winter does for them--outdoor treatment sounds much easier than handpricking, that would be a last resort;
actually there are many pedios at rather high cold elevations, and many--most simpsonii for example, are rated usda zone 3 (beavercreek offers a number of forms), and i know someone growing a number in edmonton-well to the north of here, with slightly colder winters but also slightly warmer summers; also another grower in the mountains in british columbia, zone three-with a lot more snow than here, but similar short summer; interstingly, both of those growers report nigrispinus forms also to be fully hardy for them, which one might not have thought given the altitudes they come from;
...time will tell what will actually grow here :)
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Lilium washingtonianum has been sitting and not moving for more than a month now (see photo). Does it need a cold-treatment or something to trigger development of the leaves? Or shoud I leave it and wait till next winter?
Thanks, Hans
Hello Hans
Interestingly i had a couple of seeds of L.washingtonianum var purpurascens ,(sown Aug 09), germinate in summer a month or so back --the attached pic ,(of last weekend),shows the cotyledon growth of one ,as well as an other forming a very small bulb but with no above the ground growth yet.
The pic also shows a third seed just now germinating with a radicle pushing through the seed wall.
The pot has been placed under cover and so i expect growth to continue over winter.
Unfortunately i cannot answer your questions other than to say that in my climate they seem very slow to grow away once germination has occured.
Cheers Dave.
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Just for the record: in the last week, the following have germinated here:
- Acis tingitana
- Alstroemeria hookeri
- Anomatheca laxa 'Joan Evans'
- Eranthis hyemalis 'Orange Glow' (only one seed up)
- Acis trichophylla
- Acis autumnalis 'September Snow'
- Asarum hartwegii
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very excited/relieved to see germination on Corydalis nobilis, seed from kristl, sown last fall--along with several other woodlanders; it was my first time with this sort of overwintered outdoors sowing, and there were several issues--sudden deep cold just after sowing, some issues of placement, possible cat interference, too little or too much leaf mulching etc, so i am happy to see germination on at least one of the pots..time will tell on the others...
also germination on several different pulsatillas sown near/after frost time last fall and overwintered plunged, with baggies..also seeing germination of self sown pulsatilla in several pots of natives etc which were near the at that time potted pulsas....
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Last year one seedling emerged from this pot of Iris attica seed but it died during the summer. Fortunately more have germinated with the onset of cooler weather!
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On the weekend I found that this pot of Delosperma cooperi from SRGC Seedex 2008 had finally decided to germinate :) Another reason not to empty pots too soon!
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cheers
fermi
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An update: today I noticed that one of my Davidia seeds had germinated :)
I think each seed can give more tha one seedling
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a few things germinating now in pots i put out in early/mid spring--these were things that needed cold stratification, mostly, and i was worried i was getting them out too late, since it was seasonally warm then--well,'luckily' we had plenty of chilly weather after that! so they have been up over 20C and down below freezing (initial period was probably mostly below freezing in the late snow patch behind the house..)
up now, some just beginning:
Cymopterus planosus, Eriogonum ovalifolium (alplains)
Chaenomeles japonica, Viburnum lentago, Iris setosa ssp canadensis, Anthriscus 'ravenswing' (kristl-gardens north)--oh, not just starting, but a nice big pot full of Corydalis nobilis from kristl sown late last year
Nassauvia and Leucheria spp (Holubec--a thrill, since i have had almost no results from my patagonian seeds :( there might be beginnings on a couple of other things, too small to tell yet..
i think Tulipa sprengeri and Iris chrysographes--(seed from forumists) may be starting... also Elaeagnus umbellata, from a private trade....
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On the weekend I found that this pot of Delosperma cooperi from SRGC Seedex 2008 had finally decided to germinate :) Another reason not to empty pots too soon!
This pot of Allium chamaemoly seed sown fresh 2 years ago chose this winter to germinate as well!
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cheers
fermi
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It seems to be a good time for Alliums!
Firstly, Allium nuttallii (from Kurt Vickery, Monocot Specialist)
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Allium crenulatum from SRGC Seedex 2010
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as well as Allium stellatum,
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while, this Allium flavum v. tauricum came from NARGS Sdx 2010,
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From Gardens North (thanks Kristl) this Cercidiphyllum japonicum, germinating like cress!
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More from SRGC 2010:
Fritillaria karelinii
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Tropaeolum beuthii
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and look at the roots already coming out of the drainage holes! Having only been sown 2 months ago.
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and lastly, Rhodophiala mendocina
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cheers
fermi
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It seems to be a good time for Alliums!
Firstly, Allium nuttallii (from Kurt Vickery, Monocot Specialist)
cheers
fermi
Some good stuff coming up there Fermi! Please note that the name Allium "nuttallii" is a synonym, the actual species name is Alllium drummondii. It's a nice small species from southwestern USA, one that I have tried several times but cannot grow here :'(
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=242101355
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Thanks, Mark,
I'll try to remember to change the label!
cheers
fermi
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A great germination on Salvia hierosolymitana,
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thanks to a generous Forumist,
cheers
fermi
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What is the whole plant like Fermi, and the flowers? I love Salvias. :D
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What is the whole plant like Fermi, and the flowers? I love Salvias. :D
That's as much as I have of the whole plant! ;D
cheers
fermi
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More germinations this weekend,
Geissorhiza tulbaghensis - about half have now sprouted!
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Campanula aucheri from Rocky Mountain Rare Plants
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Iris darwasica from SRGC Seedex 2010
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cheers
fermi
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Today I noticed that one seed in my pot of tropaeoleum azureum (from Kurt Vickery) has germinated :).
I will try to keep it growing outdoors until the temperature starts to drop below zero and then move the pot inside (and keep my finger crossed)
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Fermi, did the Narcissus germinated?
One more question: now that the Rodophiala germinated, when will you water them? I've some to sow and I'm a bit worried about the water.
:D
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Fermi, did the Narcissus germinated?
Not yet! The Habranthus seed you sent is already up :)
now that the Rodophiala germinated, when will you water them? I've some to sow and I'm a bit worried about the water.
I usually sow those flat seeds of South American amaryllids as soon as I get them as I don't think have a long viability. The ones pictured above were sown in autumn and started to germinate during the winter! Others sown at the same time started to germinate when the weather got a bit warmer - within the last couple of weeks.
cheers
fermi
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Partial success for the beginner is an intoxicating experience!!
I was given seeds of Rigidella orthantha in March and sowed them immediately. As yet no signs of germination.
In August I made my first attempt at germinating using the Deno method and until recently no results.
In desperation I treated these seeds with Gibberellic Acid and lo, after 5 days SUCCESS!!! :D :D :D
I say "partial success" because I have so far only a tiny root. I have carefully transferred to an open potting mix and will hope for the best. However, I am panting with anticipation.
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I think it is just these very trials and tribulations which demonstrate the miracle that is a sprouting seed.... it is not always easy to initiate growth and the delight felt when we see signs of life beginning from a tiny seed are such a great reward for us.
I feel so sorry for those poor souls who never try raising plants from seed... they really don't know what wonders they are missing out on!
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Fermi, did the Narcissus germinated?
Cris,
They started like cress a few weeks ago - after you asked I decided to give the pot a dunk in some water and left it there till they germinated!
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This was taken last week and there is an errant irid as well!
cheers
fermi
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I may try this with a few of my tardy Narcissus seed pots, all from the Northern hemisphere and those often take an extra year even if the seed is very fresh.
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well done everyone. I feel so bad for not growing my own plants
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Joy of joy! More plants from seed! 8)
Eucrosia mirabilis just germinating - 14-21 days from sowing.
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During our miserably hot summer with record drought conditions, Cyclamen purpurascens flowered earlier than normal and flowered well in spite of the weather. There were lots of seed capsules from the previous year, and while I missed more than 1/2 of the bounty, I did catch some and sowed the seed outside in place, just scratching the seed into the soil and pine back mulch... this technique has been so effective. Today I noticed innumerable clusters of cute seedlings all over, these seedlings almost as cute as Epimedium seedlings... yay!
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Mark do you make your own mulch? I like it.
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Mark do you make your own mulch? I like it.
Mark, it's just pine back mulch, dark brown and not too chunky when fresh, but quickly decomposing to a finer grade in 2-3 years, looking grayish when dry. It does wonders over time to enrich the soil and to lighten my otherwise heavy rocky clay soil. While it is supposed to be bark mulch, there are pieces of shredded wood in there too.
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From more in-situ sowing, as a follow-up, here are 2 year old seedlings of Helleborus niger. I'm loving this method, just scratch-n-sow (I should trademark this phrase ;D) when the seed pods are spilling seed, and stand back and let them germinate and grow on their own accord, no handing of seed pots, no manual watering, no visual mess of pots and flats, no muss no fuss ;D In this view, what's interesting is that in the fall 2-year seedlings put out some larger secondary leaves. Also shown here, is a 3-read old seedling plant, maybe big enough to produce a few flowers late winter 2011.
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Mark I agree, you should register or patent the phrase. It is obviously a more productive one than the "Scratch and Win," those nasty little tickets one can buy here as part of the lottery system, where you rub a coin or something over a silver area and discover you haven't won a prize.
This seems such a good way to sow many woodland-type plants, with no weeding worth speaking of, no sowing in pots, watering frequently and then having to pot them individually. Just sow then plant elsewhere in due course. I'll be trying it myself this coming autumn. I use a mulch of pine bark fines and rotted pea straw. Together they make a lovely humusy compost. (Of course one get the odd pea coming up. :)) I think it would be worth using too, for irises of many kinds such as the PCs. Before the winter I planted out a small plant of a dwarf form of I. douglasiana. There was just the one germinated after two years in the seed pot. Just last week I noticed another 20 or so had germinated in the garden, not around the plant but in the nearby area where I'd distributed the compost from the seed pot. They are now rescued and into small nursery pots.
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Or 'Scratch and Sniff', which were about at one point, where the picture on a card or something similar was impregnated with a perfume which released when scratched.... so you could see a picture of a lemon and scratch it, thereby releasing lemon perfume. There was a whole range of flavours. Not sure they're around any more?
I feel old! ::)
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From more in-situ sowing, as a follow-up, here are 2 year old seedlings of Helleborus niger. I'm loving this method, just scratch-n-sow (I should trademark this phrase ;D) when the seed pods are spilling seed, and stand back and let them germinate and grow on their own accord, no handing of seed pots, no manual watering, no visual mess of pots and flats, no muss no fuss ;D In this view, what's interesting is that in the fall 2-year seedlings put out some larger secondary leaves. Also shown here, is a 3-read old seedling plant, maybe big enough to produce a few flowers late winter 2011.
Mark, I use your "scratch and sow" method with Penstemon thompsoniae, a caespitose penstemon I really like. For years I donated seed and also sowed it myself in pots. I never got germination. A few years ago I just scratched the some of the seed into the trough where it was growing and the following spring had 30 seedlings (too close together). I transplanted them later in little groups and they are now growing happily in the crevice garden and scree garden. Apparently, the trough is not really essential, but it makes a wonderful seed bed.
1. Pictured here in the trough.
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Mark, I use your "scratch and sow" method with Penstemon thompsoniae, a caespitose penstemon I really like. For years I donated seed and also sowed it myself in pots. I never got germination. A few years ago I just scratched the some of the seed into the trough where it was growing and the following spring had 30 seedlings (too close together). I transplanted them later in little groups and they are now growing happily in the crevice garden and scree garden. Apparently, the trough is not really essential, but it makes a wonderful seed bed.
1. Pictured here in the trough.
Anne, I have never tried P. thompsoniae, it's a real cutie. But your experience is similar to mine, on some plant species I rarely get germination, or very poor germination at best, and then hard to keep them going in pots to make the transition to the garden. Direct sowing has really worked well, I think because with the larger volume of earth the seed is sown into, is less effected by micro-fluctuations of drought, alternate freezing-thawing, excess moisture, soil temperature, all of which plagues the small bit of soil in seed pots.
PS. Is that the foliage of Aquileguia scopulorum to the upper right?
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No rain today, for a very nice change, so got a chance to browse through my seed frame. All the following showing good germination and have been moved to the greenhouse.
Sown October 16th. 2009.
Cyclamen pseudibericum
C. coum caucasiacum
C. cyprium
C. graecum, a Tony Wiilis collection from Monemvasia sent to me in 2009.
Sown October 7th. 2010.
Polyxena ensifolia var maughanii
Leucocoryn vittatis
Gynandiris sysyrinchium, collected from Mount Adir, Upper Galilee by Oron
Lachenalia contaminata
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Exciting sowings David,
Germinating here from 10/10/2010 sowings;
Massonia ( Whiteheadia ) bifolia
Massonia depressa
Hesperantha vaginata
Famatina cisandina
Tigridia phillipiana
Sparaxis grandiflora ssp grandiflora
Babiana patula
Tecophilaea violiflora
Romulea linaresii
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Lovely stuff Chris. Swap you a Polyxena ensifolia var maughanii for a Famatina cisandina in 2013 ;D
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Now that both Ron Ratko and soon,RMRP
Alplains are closed/closing, where are we to get seed of good small Penstemons?
Chris I was about to ask Maggi where you and Simon had vanished to. I enjoy your postings and pictures. don't do a runner on us :)
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Lesley, where did you hear Alplains is closing?
The 2010 catalogue is supposed to be ready next month.
Rocky Mountains Rare Plants is closing in December though.
I hope Alplains isn't :'( :'( :'(
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Now that both Ron Ratko and soon, Alplains are closed/closing, where are we to get seed of good small Penstemons?
The American Penstemon Society.
http://apsdev.org/welcome.html
Two journals, seedex, field trips, website.
Edited by Maggi to be more prominent!
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Thanks Diane. Helen, their latest (2010) seed list says it's their last. They want to do other things.
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Lesley, it is Rebecca and Bob from Rocky Mountain Rare Plants that are closing in December.
There's nothing on the Alplains website that says Alan is shutting down. The new catalogue will be ready in December.
I certainly hope he doesn't close too. :-\
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http://www.alplains.com/
Alan Bradshaw says in his intro.......
....."Once again, we sincerely thank you for your continual support and encouragement as we look forward to many more years of service. Happy growing!"
Good to hear that this source is continuing!
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You're right of course Helen. Deeply sorry to have caused consternation. I was getting my drinks mixed I suppose. ??? (Last summer's brandied cherries on icecream, after dinner.)
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You're right of course Helen. Deeply sorry to have caused consternation. I was getting my drinks mixed I suppose. ??? (Last summer's brandied cherries on icecream, after dinner.)
Yummmmy.
Lesley, maybe you could post the brandied cherry recipe on CC.
No need to be sorry, just glad you can continue getting your rare penstemon seeds. ;D ;D
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If it survives David ???, this is my second sowing, germinates with ease, but from 20 odd germinations last year I only have two remaining plants! Similar probs with some of the Rhodophialas, ignea and laeta are much like advena in bulb structure and are bomb proof, some other species like splendens are trickier ( with me ) I'm mucking about with mixtures that have higher proportions of inorganics and fearsome drainage to see if that helps.
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I have collected seeds of what I think is Trillium sessile. I've done that Kristel shows, and put them on the moisture at room temperature. They have begun to germinate, so my question is, how do I store them best through the winter.
Ulla
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Seed sown three weeks ago into the same pot as the mother plant.
Strumaria chaplinii
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Sort of germinating now, though hard to say with orchids, may have germinated a while back!!
05/2010 sowing from seed from Cohan;
Spiranthes romanzoffiana
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oh wow! very cool-i forgot i sent you those, and wasn't sure i'd actually got any seed in the capsules i collected..
did you have any luck with the pyrolas?
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New pyrola thread here : http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6383.0
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To my great surprise & delight I have germinated Ramonda serbica sown on moist perlite in a closed plastic container. The seed germinated two weeks after sowing.
Apart from being very patient how should I now treat these tiny seedlings?
Mike
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Oh my word, Mike, I have no idea how you might successfully transfer these tiny babies on to a growing medium and care for them..... I hope that someone has a useful answer for you so that we can all learn a valuable lesson here. I suspect this is not going to be easy........ :-\
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Hi
Outch! You should anyway not wait too long, the roots will get longer and mix with each other, and that will be then very difficult to handle with, or even fatal for most of the seedlings.
I think it's still time to take several parts of the mix perlite/seedlings and put them quite untouched ON the right soil in different little pots and keep them air moist ( but not too much) and temperated untill the seedlings show signs of further growth. Adding some sand on the surface of the soil could also perhaps help for the beginning.
Of course you will loose some of the plants in the operation. But the youngest ones will surely go on as nothing had happened.
You can also prick right now every little plant out, one by one, with much patience, time, precision and love. That would be something for me ;) I love doing such things :D And I think that's really how I would do if those Ramondas were mines ;)
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I was checking up today on some Tigridia seedlings which were sown late and were still in full growth when the bad weather hit last month. (I hope they survive) I spotted a 5cm shoot in another pot and discovered it to be Tropaeolum azureum, sown in January 2008. The greenhouse temperature has dropped to -7 or less at least twice in the last month. It seems the cold weather triggered a seed to wake up.
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Hi
Outch! You should anyway not wait too long, the roots will get longer and mix with each other, and that will be then very difficult to handle with, or even fatal for most of the seedlings.
I think it's still time to take several parts of the mix perlite/seedlings and put them quite untouched ON the right soil in different little pots and keep them air moist ( but not too much) and temperated untill the seedlings show signs of further growth. Adding some sand on the surface of the soil could also perhaps help for the beginning.
Of course you will loose some of the plants in the operation. But the youngest ones will surely go on as nothing had happened.
You can also prick right now every little plant out, one by one, with much patience, time, precision and love. That would be something for me ;) I love doing such things :D And I think that's really how I would do if those Ramondas were mines ;)
are we saying they need to be moved immediately because they are in sterile medium?(and if so, could they be gently fertilised and left for some time?) or is it something specific to ramonda that says they must be moved?
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I suspect Philippe's advice is best but I wonder what the result would be if you were just to water them very gently into the hollow or valley parts betweeen the perlite grains, and let them stay a while to grow hopefully. I'd do it with a bottle of water with the top screwed on, but loose enough to leak out small dribbles.
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are we saying they need to be moved immediately because they are in sterile medium?(and if so, could they be gently fertilised and left for some time?) or is it something specific to ramonda that says they must be moved?
I think they could perfectly go on growing in the perlite for a while, indeed with some fertilisation.
So from this point of view they don't need to be moved absolutely now.
My remark was just of practical nature. As there are seedlings everywhere, up down, left and right, it can just get even more complicated or impossible in a few weeks to untangle without much damage the thin and fragile roots that will surely have grown.
And if that was not enough, they will also have to grow in a totally new medium for them, so it would be wiser if this transition could be made the soonest possible, in my opinion.
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Hi, I would split the batch in half if possible. Let one half continue with some very slight feeding and see what happens. Place the other half on top of some suitable medium:
- prepare the receiving container
- slide a stiff sheet of plastic or cardboard under the seeds & perlite
- slide them gently onto the new medium, disturbing them as little as possible.
As the seedlings grow they will eventually root into the medium.
Of course, I can only speak from experience with orchid seedlings, which can be notoriously difficult to transfer to a growing medium. But generally it is best not to disturb the individuals. We tend to take them place them into community pots. They like a bit of company. :) :) Good luck.
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I would leave them in the perlite but give them the lightest dusting of silver sand (dry so it does not clog and smother them) to anchor them in and then water with a very weak fertiliser.
I understand from somebody who grows them from seed successfully that warmth in the early stages really helps and brings them on quickly.
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Thanks everyone for your advice/comments. I think at this time I will use a very weak liquid feed but keep the seedlings in situ, they are only the size of pin heads and my big fingers may do more harm than good if I try and repot at this stage.
Best wishes for the New Year to all,
Mike
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Maybe 5% germination rate here ( 1 out of 20 seeds ) and my chances of keeping this going are slim I suspect;
Tylecodon singularis
The adult is a stunner if you look up a pic!!
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Can anyone advise me on how to germinate seed of Blandfordia punicea,I have only ever got one seed to germinate and I let it get too dry and lost it after two years.
I have tried everything including smoke but nothing works.
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Can anyone advise me on how to germinate seed of Blandfordia punicea,I have only ever got one seed to germinate and I let it get too dry and lost it after two years.
I have tried everything including smoke but nothing works.
Michael - I have been watering an empty pot for more than 2 years now and have also tried smoke - kleenex, papertowel and Dumaurier Kings in a poly bag. Still no germination.
johnw
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I suggest you contact:
http://www.wildseedtasmania.com.au/search.php
as they supply seed.
When I ordered different seed they sent me a few pages of hints on how to germinate different seed.
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... I have germinated Ramonda serbica sown on moist perlite in a closed plastic container. The seed germinated two weeks after sowing. Apart from being very patient how should I now treat these tiny seedlings?
Just catching up in this thread. I hope your Ramonda seedlings have survived and thrived, Mike.
Ramonda is generally easy to germinate (quickly at warm), as you know, but the trick is post germination.
I find they transplant fine as well, but it is the (very long) period required between germination and planting out that I have always found challenging. It is always hard to know how to deal with seedlings that will need (years) of growth indoors before they are large enough to be planted out. I recall my last batch of R. myconii was indoors for perhaps 3 or more years before going into the garden.
The closed plastic container that you used for germination is, in fact, what I have adopted for most species that are small at germination and slow growers. Except my medium would have been something that could withstand all stages of germination and growth, without having to transplant the seedlings. My choice is spaghnum, which is moisture retentive and naturally antiseptic. I have used it successfully for Ramonda, Haberlea, and once, long ago, for Jankaea. Ferns, Rhododendron, Epigaea and others also benefit from this method.
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I've not used the closed plastic container method so can't comment on that but with the exception of Pinguicula grandiflora, everything I've sown on spaghnum has either not germinated or been so quickly overwhelmed by the moss that it was totally lost, including ramondas. I now use what I use for any very small seeds, grit over seed mix and the seed sown over the grit and not covered at all, watered lightly with a soft shower-type nozzle.
These two pots which germinated some months ago show how successful the grit sowing can be. Both are big enough to handle now - I just need some time to get on with it - and you'll be interested to know Kristl, that the seeds you sent me a couple of years ago of Epigaea , are little plants of about 5cms in diameter and doing well.
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Oddly John, the other packet of Shortia you sent at the same time, while one germinated quickly, the others are coming up just now and in quantity, perhaps the single plus in this cool, damp summer the lower South Island is having.
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how interesting, Lesley....and NO MOSS has been one of the huge benefits for me in using spaghnum.
I always use finely chopped live moss....wonder if that is the difference.
check out this link on sarracenias in live moss (another genus i always used it for)
http://icps.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sarracenia&action=display&thread=949
by the way your tag says Epigaea asiatica---if i sent you seed, it would have been Epigaea repens.
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I should have been clearer. Yes, your seed Kristl was E. repens and lovely wee plants they now are. Those in the picture are young seedlings from my own E. asiatica, originally from SRGC seed, maybe 10 year ago?
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Oddly John, the other packet of Shortia you sent at the same time, while one germinated quickly, the others are coming up just now and in quantity, perhaps the single plus in this cool, damp summer the lower South Island is having.
Lesley - Well done!
My Shortia seeds have been sprouting the 2nd year lately. Very odd as they have sprouted within three weeks in the past.
johnw - -4c at 23:00
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Does anybody have any experience with germinating Centrolepsis Monogyna (endemic Tasmanian Western Pincushion)
Failing direct experience, what is the practice with germinating pincushion seeds?
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Can anyone advise me on how to germinate seed of Blandfordia punicea,I have only ever got one seed to germinate and I let it get too dry and lost it after two years.
I have tried everything including smoke but nothing works.
Michael,
AFAIK this only requires simple stratification. Maybe fresher seed next time? This is one of the seeds which Marcus Harvey occasionally lists - you might try there.
Does anybody have any experience with germinating Centrolepsis Monogyna (endemic Tasmanian Western Pincushion)
John,
I don't have any experience of this one. Failing an answer from someone on the list, I'd suggest talking to someone at the Ridgeway nursery.
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Thanks Rob. I was up there on the weekend and saw why you only look at Isophysis tasmanica.
However I came across this little cushion which rejoices with the name Pterygopappus lawrencei which I couldn't resist.
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I feel envious every time I go.
Bolster plants are fascinating aren't they; the bolsters you see up at Mt Field are like perfect miniature gardens.
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I don't have any experience of this one. Failing an answer from someone on the list, I'd suggest talking to someone at the Ridgeway nursery.
Is this the nursery you mean, Rob?
http://www.potn.com.au/
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Yes. I think it's the best native plant nursery we have in the state. A wide range of plants, far beyond the usual Lomandras, Dianellas, etc., - orchids, alpines (Geum talbotianum for instance, a plant I've only managed to flower once. Of course, that was when we were in drought, so maybe I should try again....) though the native bonsai are now sold in a separate nursery
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It must have been where I saw Coprosma moorei, Pernettya tasmanica red berried and yellow berried form all in fruit. I couldn't buy the plants for me but was able to get them for a Blue Mtns friend.
John Weagle may care to note that this week I have 3 tiny seedlings up of Shortia soldanelloides!!! Very thrilled about those and hoping for some more. The previous shortias are big enough to handle now. I also have a few seedlings this week of Asteranthera ovata. :D