Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Gerdk on September 09, 2009, 07:58:04 PM
-
Here we go - first daffodils are flowering in the NH
Just opening
1. + 2. Narcissus x perezlarae
3. + 4. Narcissus serotinus (miniatus) x N. tazetta
- perhaps the scarcest autumn flowering (wild occuring) hybrid - with
special thanks to the donor from Israel
Gerd
-
Beautiful Gerd.
-
Gerd, your + 4. Narcissus serotinus (miniatus) x N. tazetta
- perhaps the scarcest autumn flowering (wild occuring) hybrid - is unbelievably beautiful, thanks so much for posting a photo...it always amazes me how low key Forum Members are about such stars in the plant world
-
The very tinies are delightful.
-
Robin, David,
Thanks for the compliments - especially for the term 'low key' which I noticed the first time, not sure if it may be the case :)
Gerd
-
Gerd, your treatment methods seem to work out excellent! ;)
I presume that we can expect many more autumn flowering Narcissus then?? 8)
-
Amazing beauties Gerd !! :o
Thanks for showing !
-
I have been waiting for the first pics of autumn flowering narcissi, so thank you Gerd. I'm hoping mine will do well this year. I was rather disappointed not to find Narcissus elegans for sale anywhere.
-
Gerd,
These are simply exquisite.
Paddy
-
Once again, thanks for the kind remarks.
Luit, I hope there will follow some others. However at present no signs of flower stalks.
I believe flower formation of the serotinus-tazetta hybrid was induced by the hot summer temperatures of Israel. I received this species at the beginning of July and after that no artificial warming.
Nevertheless the early flowering date, much ahead of its parents, surprised me.
Gerd
-
Some great minis there, Graham!
N.scaberulus is also in flower in our garden,
[attachthumb=1]
And this little white which I think is "Pico Blanco"
[attachthumb=2]
And the first flower on N.bulbocodium obesus,
[attachthumb=3]
More florets open on N. Splatter,
[attachthumb=4] [attachthumb=5]
cheers
fermi
-
My first obesus are out too Fermi and some seedlings from it, with the same fat flowers but strictly upright foliage. 'Pico Blanco' is very nice.
Where is Paul?
-
Where is Paul?
Canberra?
-
Here we go - first daffodils are flowering in the NH
Just opening
1. + 2. Narcissus x perezlarae
3. + 4. Narcissus serotinus (miniatus) x N. tazetta
- perhaps the scarcest autumn flowering (wild occuring) hybrid - with
special thanks to the donor from Israel
Gerd
These are superb, Gerd.
Is the hybrid scented?
cheers
fermi
-
???
Hi
Paul is probably getting ready for the show.
Fermi, your N. scaberulus does not look right. Foliage should be glaucus and upright and tiny flowers are carried about 7-10 cm above ground. Where did you get it?
-
These are superb, Gerd.
Is the hybrid scented?
cheers
fermi
Fermi,
The hybrid from Israel has a faint scent - not as much as one would expect from the tazetta parent.
Gerd
-
Bell Song (previously posted but thought I would show a clump view)
Ringing Bells
Height: Standard - 32.5 to 67.5 cm (12.8 to 26.6 in)
Hybridizer: Grant Mitsch and Richard & Elise Havens
Year Registered: 1984
Country: United States
Seed Parent: Quick Step
Pollen Parent: N. triandrus subsp. triandrus var. triandrus
-
Tuesdays Child
Height: Standard - 32.5 to 67.5 cm (12.8 to 26.6 in)
Hybridizer: Douglas Blanchard
Year Registered: 1964
Country: England
Seed Parent: Interim
Pollen Parent: N. triandrus subsp. triandrus var. loiseleurii
-
Graham - You an an incredible collection of Narcissus there. I have been watching as they unfold by the day. 6a-a may very well be as you say be " a little large for a miniature" but it is exquisite.
Keep the postings coming.
johnw
-
Ah yes, 'Bell Song,' another I have but had lost the name for, so thanks for that Ross. I really like its little pink cup. I don't like all pink cups. Can't bear 'Foundling' for instance.
-
My Bell song are about to flower as well, here are some others over the next few posts that have just started to show themselves-as usual help with any names will be appreciated.
-
And here are the others, it appears I have more doubles than I thought I had, dont really like doubles apart from Whitesail and this is not out yet, will post a pic when it is-is a miniature poet.
-
Is the small white cup 'Xit?'
-
Bell Song is yet to flower here; I think it's very similar to "Waterperry" but a more regular flowerer.
New in our garden this weekend, N. "Minnow", a little tazetta type
[attachthumb=1]
A nice clump of N. bulbocodium
[attachthumb=2]
and the first flower of Narcissus bulbocodium ssp graellsii from AGS Seedex 2006 (?)
[attachthumb=3][attachthumb=4]
And that lovely hybrid from NZ, "Hawera"
[attachthumb=5]
cheers
fermi
-
Here's one 'specially for Lesley. Was posted on Daffnet
-
8)
Hi
A familiar name on this winner from the Canberra Show!
I have posted a few photos for Lesley as well!!
We are entering our late flowering period now. The triandus and fernandesii hybrids are all starting to flower. Some are a bit later than normal. This is surprising because the season has been early generally speaking.
Lesley, Kees flower looks like a Division 3 flower rather than Xit which is a small miniature.
-
;D
Hi
A few photos of some of our species flowering at the moment.
-
Many lovely things here but I am seriously tempted to say some very rude words!
-
Many lovely things here but I am seriously tempted to say some very rude words!
;D
-
I love the miniature N poeticus that Kees has grown :) wondering if it smells like the wild one?
-
;D
Hi
A few more photos from Keira Bulbs.
You will see our miniatures are truly miniature from the photo of the miniature and the bulbocodiums!
Kees where did you get your miniature poeticus?
Lesley, I didn't think Paul's triandus hybrid would draw that sort of reaction!!
-
;D
Hi
A few photos of the unaffordable!
Lesley I have to agree that triandus splits are not such a good idea!
-
Hi Graham,
thanks for showing your miniature narcissus breeding results.
N. pallidiflorus ssp. pallidiflorus - that is a wunderful species in my eyes 8).
I like the pale primula yellow color, the large trumpet with its domed edges and evenly the twisted pedals, like little windmills.
Overall, it has a "wild" character.
-
;D
Hi
A few photos of the unaffordable!
Well, that's a rather patronising statement, even if made in jest. Since I have not been able to see a pricelist/ catalogue from KB, I' ll just have to take it at face value :-\
Lesley I have to agree that triandus splits are not such a good idea!
There is some hope, then, of common sense prevailing? ? ;D
-
:o
Hi
Me patronising? :o If it is an exhibition quality miniature 7W-P that is fertile and flowered for the first time in 2009 it is unaffordable simply because of availability. 8)
There was a mention of wild character. Unfortunately wild character is not one that is welcome in the exhibition daffodil world. :(
[color]
-
:o
Hi
Me patronising? :o If it is an exhibition quality miniature 7W-P that is fertile and flowered for the first time in 2009 it is unaffordable simply because of availability. 8)
There was a mention of wild character. Unfortunately wild character is not one that is welcome in the exhibition daffodil world. :(
[color]
I think "unavailable" would be a better word, after all, unless you are in a position to say "no" to someone "making you an offer you can't refuse", they will be affordable to someone? :P
-
;D
Hi
Anthony we are always open to outrageous offers!!
-
Graham, when an internet search to find your catalogue gives ( after references in the SRGC forum, this info :
KEIRA BULBS
Address:
45 FITZALAN ST
KAMBAH
ACT, 2902Phone:
Phone Number
*Please tell KEIRA BULBS that you found them on business.com.au!
Areas of Expertise:
Cheese & Dairy Product Manufacturing
Cured Meat & Smallgoods Manufacturing
Ice Cream Manufacturing
Meat Processing
Milk & Cream Processing
Outdoor Nurseries
Poultry Processing
Seafood Processing
Turf Growing
Under Cover Nurseries ..... then it seems outrageous offers are all you might expect! ;D ::)
-
;D
Hi Maggie
That is not our current address as we have moved to the farm. Our customers seem to be able to find us.
-
Yes, I know you moved, but I thought the list of areas of expertise was a bit whacky!!
I do know that others have got bulbls from you.... and I do not doubt that you have customers who CAN find you.... what I am saying is that I have not had a list from you, and I find no way to view your catalogue online.... always rather unusual in these days.... might it not be in your interests to actually give a link to a list? Gawd knows, even out here in the world of natural species lovers, there may be those who might want to give you some custom..... or are you doing so well you do not wish that?
-
Lesley, I didn't think Paul's triandus hybrid would draw that sort of reaction!!
And you know very well that it didn't! :)
But the effort of producing his prizewinner seems to have lost Paul to us altogether?
-
I've been lost for some time Lesley. :-\
This is one of my favourite seedlings ..Melbil x Killearnan.I've used it extensively with Ouse, many poets and most of my other Div 3 seedlings.Perhaps I may have 500+ seedlings 2 to 3 years old, still in poly boxes that need to be rowed out.Div 3 is one of my favourites! :D
Graham, you have produced a wonderful array of genetic material to breed colourful fertile miniatures.A lot of hard yakka and hours went into that, but who's counting when you're having fun :)
Kees, love your miniature poet !!!! It's much superior to mine that I posted earlier, nice broad petals and quite smooth.Do you have a breeding programme going for miniature poets? Mine was a chance seedling amongst standards, but when and if it ever decides to flower again, every grain of pollen will be used!
-
Well it was actually Paul Tyerman I was wondering about Paul. He hasn't posted for quite a few days, but it's true that many of us are lost; to alpines and bulbs, to the delights of chocolate (without macadamias) to an addiction to seeds or even in the mountains in Valais, Switzerland :)
-
Oops ..sorry. Two Pauls, both with prize winning Triandrus ::)
-
My first Narcissus for the end of summer, Narcissus serotinus
-
If you like it or not, I just can't resist to add some more pics of the striking hybrid Narcissus serotinus x N. tazetta. Because it is sterile the flowers last for an very long time.
Gerd
-
My goodness, it looks quite vigorous. :o Perhaps one to look out for, and that perhaps may flower for us "oop north"?
-
;D
Hi
Kees
A few photos of how to get miniature pinks. First you need pollen from a small pink like Brooke Ager and then you need something like our micro mini.
Some variation is often seen in the species. Sometimes this includes natural splits (don't choke Lesley) and multiple petals. The photos show some N. rupicola with extra petals.
There are also desirable and not so desirable forms of the species.
-
;D
Hi
Now something truly special for Lesley. This flower is really hard to classify. It is a failed triandus hybrid because it only has one floret. However, the question then arises is it a double or a split cup? It has two layers of cup. The outer one is quite extraordinary while the inner cup has a white margin. Not for exhibition but certainly something different!
-
My first Narcissus for the end of summer, Narcissus serotinus
I think this beautiful flower would have a better life in the Autumn narcissus section?
-
Wonderfull Gerd !!
Now, I think you have to try to cross N. serotinus with N. cyclamineus !!! ;D
Fantastic pics and flowers ! and so unusual....
-
Anthony and Fred,
Thanks for compliments!
Fred, I prefer crosses from mother nature although crosses between autumn and spring flowering daffodils might offer a range of interesting combinations.
Narcissus cyclamineus behaves pretty promiscuously but I'm not sure if it would like an arrangement with N. serotinus? ;D
Gerd
-
G'day Graham--some advice please on your breeding of miniatures.
In my miniature breeding programme, I have always put 2N pollen onto 4n standard blooms, 2N x 2N and 2N pollen onto some of the ''Irish Div 6's'' that are just short of 24 chromosomes and get good seed set, a little less for the latter.I have not yet used N. viridiflorus, the 4n specie, but intend to.
Brooke Ager is bred from, I think, two 4N parents and so I presume is also 4N, though it has some 2N in its pedigree.It is listed by the ADS as an intermediate, height less than 32.5 cm and perianth 74cm wide.They don't note its chromosome count.
Now, do you usually put 4N pollen onto 2N blooms as well as the usual 2N pollen onto 4N blooms and is the former one reason you have made such great advances with the miniatures? What is the seed set like with the 4N pollen onto 2N blooms?
I know Rod Barwick used to say ''forget what the books say'', did his own thing and has had great results.
In lilium breeding, we always use the pollen parent with the higher chromosome count onto the pod parent with the lesser number.So we do achieve seed set, for example, by putting 4n pollen onto 3N blooms.This is especially important in producing OT'S,but it's virtually useless to try 3N pollen onto 4n blooms, or 3N onto 2N.Embryo rescue has changed this to some degree.
It's easy to produce 3N daffodils that are very vigorous, but most are infertile, so as a breeder it's mostly a dead end.I don't belong to the RHS or ADS, so don't get their journals which would keep me up to date with the latest knowledge, but have been breeding standard and miniatures for quite some time,doing my own thing, along with carnations, dianthus and glads.The last 3 no longer.
Thanks :)
Here is one of my useless novelty seedlings, a green miniature double poet 25mm only.This is all that it does--it doesn't open. :(
-
;D
Hi
Paul, most of our hybridising is done using fertile miniatures (2N). In terms of breeding colour into miniatures we cross our fertile miniatures with intermediate and small flowers with colour that are usually 4N. It is not the chromosomes that count but the unreduced gametes in the resulting triploid (and this is where it gets tricky and some luck is needed). This is also how Rod does it and that is why we can use his otherwise barren seedlings to produce seed. In terms of using a flower like Brooke Ager, you have more chance of a miniature if you use Brooke Ager pollen on a miniature but we have micro miniatures so we have pollen that we can put onto Brooke Ager. Brooke Ager is fairly tall so you need to be able to bring down the height as well and this is part of the art of the hybridiser. The other thing is that numbers count and we have a lot of seedlings.
We also have fertile Division 5 and 7 seedlings and that is particularly handy for breeding colour breaks etc. in those classes.
-
;D
Some photos for Lesley!
-
;D
Hi
A few more photos of our seedlings.
-
I see you get thrips ("thunder bugs" - Order Thysanoptera) in Oz too.
-
Graham - Love your KB 5W-W, KB 7W-W and KB 7Y-Y.
Paul - Do keep us updated on the miniature green poeticus, maybe someday it will open. :D
Great thread!
johnw
-
;D
Hi
Lesley a few more photos for you!! Nature can be far from perfect. I can't say the three quarters bulbocodium is something to impress. The split cup NTT is one of natures aberrations but it could be used to produce split cup miniature triandus.
The miniature split cup measure about 40 mm.
-
8)
Hi
Enough of the frivolity!! I have attached some photos of some of our best late flowering miniature hybrids. It includes a photo of a stunning miniature poeticus seedling of perfect exhibition form.
-
;D
Hi
A few more photos of some of our seedlings. I quite like the small disk flower. It is just a bit bigger than miniature and its stems are quite small so it would be very suitable for pot culture or the alpine garden bed for that matter.
I have been doing a lot of hybridising over the last 3 days.
-
;D
Hi
Lesley a few more photos for you!! Nature can be far from perfect. I can't say the three quarters bulbocodium is something to impress. The split cup NTT is one of natures aberrations but it could be used to produce split cup miniature triandus.
I can't wait.
-
Here is my first of the season: Narcissus serotinus from Turkey (ex PC).
-
Lovely flower !!
I'm waiting for some since several years, may be this year....
-
Graham,
some stunners in that lot! When will we see your catalogue ???
Still some daffs out here;
"Jack Snipe" - yes, I know it's not as good as "Snipe" but it is a cutie anyway! >:(
[attachthumb=1]
"Hillview triquill"
[attachthumb=2]
"White Owl"
[attachthumb=3][attachthumb=4]
"Segovia"
[attachthumb=5][attachthumb=6]
The double Poet again, and the second pic showing the "double header"
[attachthumb=7][attachthumb=8]
"Fairy Chimes"
[attachthumb=9][attachthumb=10]
cheers
fermi
-
Fermi all of the little ones you just posted are all lovely.
-
very nice indeed AD.
-
Fairy Chimes is really cute, Fermi....you do have some wonderful Narcissus :) White Owl is lovely too but I'm thinking miniature now ::)
-
Here is my first of the season: Narcissus serotinus from Turkey (ex PC).
Very handsome Anthony. How do you treat this during summer dormancy?
-
Here is my first of the season: Narcissus serotinus from Turkey (ex PC).
Very handsome Anthony. How do you treat this during summer dormancy?
Totally dry in the original pot and in full sun. Replanted in July/August and watered on 1st Sept. I have the first leaves of my non-flowering viridiflorus appearing (I hope some will flower), but my pots of humilis look as if they are going to look like grass again! :'( I'm really pleased they are all early this year, so maybe I'll get a chance grow some flowering bulbs for next year?
-
Thanks Anthony. I have wanted to grow N. serotinus for years but have been put off by its reputation as difficult/impossible to flower. I'll try it next year.
-
;D
Hi
Lesley a few more photos for you!! Nature can be far from perfect. I can't say the three quarters bulbocodium is something to impress. The split cup NTT is one of natures aberrations but it could be used to produce split cup miniature triandus.
I can't wait.
I can, easily, and the longer the better. :o
-
I wonder if the white that Kees was wanting a name for a while back, could be 'Dainty Miss.' I saw a nice pot of her at the NZAGS show on Sunday.
-
Hi Graham, those miniature white pinks are fantastic.
I will keep an eye out for your list :P and then dream about purchasing one.
I got the miniature Poet from Bill Dijk-Daffodil Acre. I have another about to flower and will take a pic of it when it does, they really are beautiful.
I have triandus hybrids and can not find the stigma anywhere, would this just mean that they are infertile or am I completely missing something, triandus alba has flowered Lesley, thanks-will pollinate it with cantabricus pollen that I have stored and hope to get that lovely hybrid.
-
Graham, thanks for giving an insight into your breeding methods. Really like your 6 floreted white min. triandrus hybrid.Only thing I can't view it so well--it's 421.64 KB. Is it also fertile? I'm not doing so much hybridizing now, but definitely will look out for Brooke Ager, the cup is certainly intense.
This is one of my best seedling Div 2 W-P. It's a standard though, not intermediate.Haven't checked the RHS colour chart yet, but it does have excellent colour.
Could you forward your catalogue, when it's available, to my email address please? I would be interested in some of the fertile miniatures, rather than the show cultivars.
Ta
-
8)
Hi
Kees, some NTT and triandus hybrids have stigma that are readily apparent while other you have to do surgery to find the stigma and pollinate them. From a hybridisers point of view those with readily apparent stigma are preferred. A similar problem occurs with N. watieri, N. rupicola and N. atlanticus.
Paul, sorry about the photo size. I do a lot of editing so you will have to forgive my few stuff-ups. The many floreted white triandus is unlikely to be fertile as one of the parents is N. dubius.
Paul, Kees and Maggi, I will put you on the list for lists. Paul yours will be more limited as I will only be able to offer what has been inspected in growth by AQIS.
-
;D
Hi
Lesley a few more photos for you!! Nature can be far from perfect. I can't say the three quarters bulbocodium is something to impress. The split cup NTT is one of natures aberrations but it could be used to produce split cup miniature triandus.
I can't wait.
I can, easily, and the longer the better. :o
Lesley - read my post aloud in a certain tone of voice.
-
Superb Narcissus serotinus x N. tazetta, Gerd!!!
Here in the south it could not grow better!
Yesterday I found first buds on Narcissus x perezlarae :D
-
Superb Narcissus serotinus x N. tazetta, Gerd!!!
Here in the south it could not grow better!
Yesterday I found first buds on Narcissus x perezlarae :D
Oooo! I look forward to the pic Hans. 8)
-
:(
Hi
Cold wet and windy in Canberra today so no hybridising or photos. However, I have a few recent photos to post anyway.
-
Not N. x perezlarae but N. elegans (received from a very kind forumist last year) opened its first bud.
-
One the main differences between N. serotinus and N. elegans is the corona shape
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/11/84/35/03/narcis13.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=651&u=11843503)
N. serotinus
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/11/84/35/03/narcis11.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=649&u=11843503)
in Corsica
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/11/84/35/03/narcis10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=639&u=11843503)
N. elegans
(http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/11/84/35/03/narcis12.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=650&u=11843503)
-
I lost my only bulb. I thought I had it, but Narcissus bulbocodium appeared in the pot labelled N. elegans! :'(
-
Gerd, Anthony, Fred,
Beautiful pics everyone. Thanks. Gerd, I particularly love that hybrid. Very nice form.
Thanks again everyone.
-
Congratulations Fred, superb photos! :o
Did you N. elegans also find in Corsica?
-
thank's !
and No Hans, N. elegans comes from Morocco !
Needs warm ans dry summer ( this year was perfect ) to flower.
-
Thanks Fred - mine looks very similar to yours, but here in Mallorca (not to far away from Corsica ;)) grows a different looking N. elegans - which until now I only have seen on photos: http://herbarivirtual.uib.es/eng-med/especie/4909.html (http://herbarivirtual.uib.es/eng-med/especie/4909.html)
-
Hans, just have to walk ..... ;D
-
Hi
Thanks Graham for the advise with the triandus, I had to dissect a few of them back a long way to pollinate them.
I read in the bulb log that Ian uses his paint brush every day to pollinate. I have only done the one pollination but it sort of make sence to do it more than once as there may be more seeds to fertise later with the develoment of seed in the capsule, I was wondering how many times others pollinate the same flower and if I have been missing something-if some of you are willing to share your knowledge on this I would greatly appreciate it.
In nature the flower must be pollinated lots of times by every visiting attractant.
Once again Graham those hybrids are fantastic.
Kees
-
Isn't that "borderline miniature seedling 6W-P " a cutie?
-
Very elegant.
-
;D
Hi
Our season, while winding down continues.
-
;D
Hi
A few more late season flowers.
Kees, I only pollinate once usually. I do a lot of hybridising so I take my chances.
-
Graham it has been nice to follow Your and progress with the narcissus when we here in the North have to wait some time for most of the plants. At least I will have to wait. I do appreciate Your comments but would like sometimes a comment why something is bad. I mostly understand it now but if You write that a part is bad give a hint why it is bad. That way we who do not know so much learn what to look for.
Thanks everyone that gives us some extra sun to enjoy.
Kind regards
Joakim
-
Opening today, the scented N. viridiflorus.
Not really spectacular but different...
-
Hans, just have to walk ..... ;D
Nearly scottish weather here - it hardly stops raining... 8) ;)
Very fine N. viridiflorus!
Here finally N. x perezlarea which took its time to open the buds.
-
waou ! wonderfull plant that I've discovered in this post !
You're lucky to have rain Hans, here, it's really dry dry dry !!!
last rain 10 days ago and 25°C every day, 2nd summer :o
-
Stunning :o
I envy you Hans, I want also some rain ;D
-
You N. x perezlarea is so amazingly beautiful Hans and photographed brilliantly! I have never seen anything like it before 8)
-
Hi Graham
You have some lovely mini poets there, my last miniature poet emerges in the 4 days of continuous rains we had here in Dunedin, the sun is shinning today so I will see if I can get a picture of it along with Whitesail that also has one bloom out and another about to open up.
I might cross polinate them and see what happens, as both are poets.
Graham if you cross a double to a "standard" will you get a mix of both and does it matter which one is the seed parent etc. I will cross them both ways and wait the 3-4 years for the results. The reason I ask this question is that it appears that doubles give doubles but I have never seen a standard in Daffnet with a double as one of the parents.
Kees
-
Hans,
The N. x perezlarea is glorious. So striking. Thanks for posting.
-
Some wonderful stuff in here everyone. Graham, glorious flowers as usual, particularly the pink trumpet cyclamineus and that beautiful white and yellow triandrus (and the pure white triandrus too for that matter! ;D).
Paul, is it possible that your Melbourne weather is what stops your green double opening? Have you tried it in a warmer spring climate to see whether it opens or not? I like quirky ones like that, and the interesting "double trumpet" one of Graham's as well. Sometimes the oddities can be interesting, although I can hear Lesley about to castigate me for saying that! ;D
I should also mention that my "prize winning triandrus hybrid" is actually one of the two varieties I have from Graham a few years ago, so it is an advertisement for him as well. A great grower and flowerer it is too!! 8)
-
One of the last of my Narcissus to bloom (a new one for me this year that I got From Bill Dijk)
Judy Cotter
Season: Very Late
Height: Dwarf - less than 32.5 cm (12.8 in)
Hybridizer: Edward W. Cotter
Year Registered: 1978
Country: New Zealand
-
Beautiful, Galahad. Beautiful.
-
Yes, it is a lovely double poeticus. Scented as well.
-
So how is it different to the poeticus plena that is around, or is yours actually the correct name for that one?
-
Hi
Here are my new pics of the daffs that have emerged since last time.
Whitesail is the double poet, then there is bell song, miniature poet, double headed white /yellow standard, tenufoliosus, standard white orange red-very bright, triandus alba x 2 and a pic of some different triandus hybrids.
The triandus hybrids look very similar but the is one with a slightly paler cup and this had the stigma extended past the cup while the others had to be dissected to be crossed with different petticoats and bell song.
-
Might be a question for Bill
-
Kees, more of your Narcissus to lift the spirits - can only explain the feeling with the "Ahhhhhhh....Narcissus!" instead of "Ahhhhhhh.....Bisto!" but said with the same meaning of pure delight :-*
-
;D
Hi
A photo of a colourful poeticus hybrid. The deep red cup is something else again.
Kees, modern standard doubles have powerful genes for doubling so while there is a chance of a single most of the flowers will be doubles. Only the finest doubles end up being marketed so there is a lot of rejects. The other thing is that even if you got a single it would not be of the quality of a single being bred as a single. When breeding doubles, particularly giant ones, you need to breed for stems capable of holding them up. They are very heavy and even heavier after rain so you need a tree trunk style stem. Such stems are not seen as desirable on exhibition singles.
-
Graham,
That white triandrus hybrid is stunning. :o So delicate, and such clean lines..... even with the red dust remains that cover everything here at the moment after the dust storms last week. ;) The red dust really doesn't want to come off either, does it. ::) Very nice flower, regardless.
-
Thanks a lot for all the comments. Fred and Miriam, hope you will have rain soon (and sun for me ;))
One feature of this plant is the flower starts yellow but becomes nearly white with the time. First time I recognized the plant can have two flowers per stalk.
Here some more pictures of this daffodils.
-
Superb, Hans!
-
Thanks Fred - mine looks very similar to yours, but here in Mallorca (not to far away from Corsica ;)) grows a different looking N. elegans - which until now I only have seen on photos: http://herbarivirtual.uib.es/eng-med/especie/4909.html (http://herbarivirtual.uib.es/eng-med/especie/4909.html)
Hans
That's an amazing form of N. elegans, thanks for sharing this information.
Interestingly in pic. No. 2 it has a similar form to N. virdiflorus.
Is Mallorca that big?... ;)
fantastic photo of perezlarae!!
-
Oddly, for me, I do like the double white poeticus hybrids.Very Gardenia-like and if they're scented as well....
Kees, if you can drop in to the Market some time soon? I never meant for you to pay for those last two as they were rather scruffy and had had to be weeded considerably so you'll get weed seedlings coming again. But having missed you that day, I couldn't say so.
Cheers
-
Thanks Lesley
I will come down and see you but I really dont mind paying for them and I am really greatful for getting them from you. I will see how quickly White sail multiplies and see if I can get you a bulb next season if you would like one but it might not flower the first year, I have already promised someone one.
After my last post I see that Whitesail is only fertile by seed, guess I will still cross it with the miniature poet anyway. I will try to self pollinate the miniature poet.
Graham that really does look like an intense cup on the poet hybrid, very nice.
-
G'day Paul T....you wrote...
''Paul, is it possible that your Melbourne weather is what stops your green double opening? Have you tried it in a warmer spring climate to see whether it opens or not? I like quirky ones like that..''
I'm glad you asked about my green double min. poet as that motivated me to evaluate it further, so I picked it just now and dissected it.The bloom is over two weeks in age.
It has a total of 30 petals, the outer segments strongly concave, the inner mostly acute.
No ovary or stigma present, but three well formed stamens were observed, consisting of both filament and anther.These were independent (not fused) of the petals.One anther had quite visible (dry) pollen. :D
The plant may very well be pollen fertile.It first flowered the year I left Tasmania (2007) and this is it's first flowering in Victoria.I would guess its form is stable from the point of view more warmth maynot cause the bloom to open more fully.
The average Sept min and max in Tassie where I lived is 4.4c and 14.7c respectively.
The average Sept min and max in Cranbourne, Victoria where I now live is 8.4c and 17.3c respectively.So it has had a reasonable temp change.
I only kept it as a novelty, but now after its dissection,what's left of the pollen is already in the freezer and it looks as though I will have to resume hybridising.
So, once again, thanks for asking Paul!!
-
Lovely pics. That hybrid is so different!
If any of you want rain, come and see me as I have too much. :(
-
Lovely photos of this autumn flowering daffodil in situ - the flowers and stems look wonderful against the chunky rocks, Hans
-
Thanks to all. :D
Oron, Mallorca is really huge - but my new boots might make it a bit smaller ;)
Robin, thanks a lot - not sure, but think exsitu would fit better (garden) ;)
-
Robin, thanks a lot - not sure, but think exsitu would fit better (garden) ;)
Now I'm really curious as to know in which situ it grows....I found this whilst Googling, is it bona fide?
Narcissus x perezlarae Font Quer made in Mirandilla (Extremadura, Spain), this plant is the cross between N. serotinus and N. cavanillesii. This population be found by Angel Sánchez in a public road at 24-OCT-2005.
-
I have a question that must have been asked a million times, I have collected some seed, some ripe and some green. Should I sow the ripe seed straight away or keep in sand until next autumn?
-
Graham, your pic in 1140 above is not Narcissus cuatrecasasii.
-
Still a few daffs out here, including Narcissus bulbocodium graellsii, in this case a lovely small form of it. Here's a couple of pics to show shape and some detail (the sun gives it different appearance so one with and one without sunshine on the flower).
Please click on the pic for a larger version.
-
Paul
Nice of where is native this form
-
Hans, have you seen Narcissus elegans in Mallorca?
-
Alessandro,
I honestly have no idea unfortunately. Given the varying types for this one I would be assuming it is a naturally occurring form or subspecies, but that is all I can tell you. I have seen much smaller ones than mine (belonging to Graham F at Keira Bulbs) and much larger ones as well, so it is quite variable. Hopefully someone else here can help you with origins.
-
Rafa will know. ;) Blanchard says "it is a very common plant in central Spain in the Guadarramas and on the plains of Castile to the north".
-
Kees it is always my intention to sow seed as soon as possible after receiving it or after harvest so with Narcissus (in theory) I'd be sowing it as soon as the pods spit and the black seeds are visible. In this case you should have germination in the autumn. Might pay though, to have them protected over winter if exceptionally cold or wet.
-
Hans, the N. x perezlarea are stunning, I very much enjoy seeing them.
-
Hans - I had somehow missed the N. x perezlarea until prompted by Anne. Beautiful.
-
Anne, Gerry thanks for your comment. :)
Anthony - no sorry, I have never seen N. elegans in Mallorca but will keep the eyes open.
-
Thanks Lesley
I will sow them this week when time presents herself-she does seem quite scarce at present.
I had some success with monophyllus and have 196 seeds, even if half germinate I will be more than happy and can not wait for the 3-4 years for flowers.
-
Thanks Lesley
I will sow them this week when time presents herself-she does seem quite scarce at present.
I had some success with monophyllus and have 196 seeds, even if half germinate I will be more than happy and can not wait for the 3-4 years for flowers.
Hi Kees,
if you have an ample supply of seeds of one type why not sow some now and some in Autumn and compare the results? I find here that I get better germination if I delay sowing till the weather cools down after summer but our conditions are a bit different!
There are still a few Daffs coming into bloom,
This is "Bilbo"
[attachthumb=1]
And "Oh Kaye"
[attachthumb=2]
cheers
fermi
-
;D
Hi
A few more photos of what is now flowering very late season for us.
-
I am taking the children for a beach holiday for a week to C'an Picafort next Sunday (11/10). I will try to drag them out for an occasional walk. I hope the rain will have stopped by then?
-
Graham, your miniature poeticus seedling is gorgeous, the red cup one is novel but your photo is a little large so I can't see the whole flower ;)
-
After these wonderful and exotic beauties a far more common creature ;D, but early: N. cantabricus cantabricus from Malaga.
It's flowering for the first time with me so I wonder whether this behaviour will prove consistent.
-
Kees-re sowing daffodil min. seed.
Your weather conditions are cooler and wetter than what we experience here, but this is how I grew my miniature daf seedlings.I was sowing up to 1000 min seed and 7000+ stand seed (in Tasmania) yearly.
I use the polystyrene fruit boxes that are approximately 15 cms deep (they won't heat up like a 200mm plastic pot).The soil mix is quite sandy, almost to the point that if you were using premium packaged potting mix, I would be adding up to 50% course sand, similar to what you see sold as cactus soil.You may have to water more often, but the little bulbs can't be over watered and they may be left in the box for the 3-4 years to flowering without the mix collapsing.I also mulch using fine pine bark.
For standard daffodil seed, it was the same, except I would transplant them to the ground after their 3rd growing season and they flowered from 5-7 years.
This picture is of miniature daf seedlings sown in 2007. Oh--I have always sown my seed in Jan/Feb, except the year when Father passed, and so they went in June.
The first years to flowering may drag a little, but by sowing yearly, you no longer have to count but have a continuos crop of new seedlings flowering yearly.Much more exciting than only growing named cultivars :)
-
Graham, your miniature poeticus seedling is gorgeous, the red cup one is novel but your photo is a little large so I can't see the whole flower ;)
Robin, I think he does that with some of his more interesting seedlings, just to tantalize us ;)
So, to see the full picture, left click on the text below it, click OK in the box that opens (with the green dot next to save file).
Download box appears then.Right click on the highlighted download (in this case red cup poeticus sdl).
Click ''open'' and the full size picture appears.
As all these pictures are owned by the poster, you should then delete them.
Graham,I also very much like that seedling, especially the colour and the SIZE.Hope you get the anthers right in its offspring when putting back to other min. poeticus.Marvelous breeding !
-
Ashley,
This is very early indeed and a good flower!
I add some pics of Narcissus elegans here - note the inwards curved petals.
It seems this is typical for the species because other plants in this Forum show the same characteristic.
Also I observed the color change of the corona - just the same as found with Narcissus miniatus.
Gerd
-
Great Narcissus Gerd !! Elegans is a really well chosen name isn't it ?? 8)
Ashley ! This must be a record breaking cantabricus ! :o :o
-
I've just seen this thread. wow!
-
::)
Hi
All it shows is I don't look at the images myself. Here is a smaller photograph.
-
Gerd,
That is a beautiful set of flowers, and such glorious pictures. Wow!! :o :o :o
-
Thanks Graham - lovely Narcissus poeticus red cup, a real hit :)
-
Really lovely daffs with beautiful shapes and well photographed to show them at their best, thanks Gerd and Ashley :)
-
Gerd, you are doing well with your autumn daffs. Must try to mimic your conditions?
-
These autumn-flowering species are very beautiful. I'm not aware of any in New Zealand except a few N. viridiflorus. Maybe Bill D. in Tauranga has some. I think that here in the south of the country we may not get hot enough summers to ripen the bulbs. Must get a small glasshouse. ;D
-
The poeticus are lovely and so are the delicate pink cups.
-
Thank you alltogether for the kind remarks!
Gerd, you are doing well with your autumn daffs. Must try to mimic your conditions?
Why not Anthony? I would be glad if some other enthusiasts will experiment with temperatures and length of time for the resting period. I'm sure there is a lot to improve!
Gerd
-
Well Gerd, you are doing much more better than I am at flowering these little beauties, so all I can do is follw the master! ;D
-
Wow! Nice compliment from the master! ;)
Gerd
-
Thanks for the tips Paul, I may be able to get some fish tubs from my father, I have a few already so will use them. I was going to put the seeds into small plastic pots and then put all of these into the fish tub-might still do that as the heat will only be transferred fro the polystyrene tubs i expect, the tubs will be filled with sand like the plunges that Ian uses.
I am getting some decent miniatures next season so my real hybridising will take place then.
My daffs are all finished for the year so I wait with anticipation for our northen cousins to start showing their pics with us.
-
The next ones are open now. Please note the beginning color change of N. x perezlarae! Three different photographs of the same pot.
The forth pic is Narcissus cavanillesii - a parent of the species shown first here.
Gerd
-
Gerd,
very impressive pictures - wow 8) 8) 8).
Congratulation.
-
I have four pots of Narcissus cavanillesii (humilis?), but they look like pots of grass, and might as well be! :'(
-
They 'show-off' beautifully Gerd, delicate and refined :)
-
Now it's my turn to be jealous. N. x perezlarae has to be on my Christmas list! Perhaps, with hybrid vigour, it will even flower for me?
-
Wonderful x perezlarae and elegans Gerd. You grow them so well 8)
-
The elegance of these flowers is paramount, isn't it? I love to see the subtle changes that the colour undergoes in the photos. Thanks , Gerd!
-
Striking photos, Gerd. Beautiful!
-
Stuning pics and plants Gerd.
Do you grow them from seeds ?
-
Gerd - your pictures are just great! Thanks a lot of showing them!
I am taking the children for a beach holiday for a week to C'an Picafort next Sunday (11/10). I will try to drag them out for an occasional walk. I hope the rain will have stopped by then?
Ohhh -what a surprise, this week it was very hot with no rain - today the first clouds appeared... ::)
-
You'd better fix it for next week Hans! ;D
-
Gerd
Absolutely BRAVO. You have surely magic fingers to obtain such gems ! Thank you
Dom
-
I think I need to revisit Gerd's way of growing these to such wonderful success. 8)
-
Anthony, this may be of help: http://uk.weather.yahoo.com/climo/GMXX0126_c.html?woeid=695336
-
I would suspect Gerd grows these in the greenhouse as they are not frost hardy?
-
Anthony, this may be of help: http://uk.weather.yahoo.com/climo/GMXX0126_c.html?woeid=695336
: Anthony Darby
I would suspect Gerd grows these in the greenhouse as they are not frost hardy?
Yes, I would think so.... but the overall weather conditions in an area have a great bearing on the conditions even in a glass house ....
-
I suspect there is more to it? Clearly there are people in the UK who have more success than I do, so what goes into the pot and the feeding/watering/compost temperature must have a cumulative effect?
-
3,2,1 blooming!
-
elegans, serotinus and ..... snails Rafa ;D ;D ;D
-
Snails are a bane for me at the moment too. I have a few late flowering varieties of hoop petticoat daffs trying to flower (N. obesus, bulbocodium serotinus and 'Golden Dragon') , but nary a flower in decent enough condition to photograph. ::)
-
Sorry for the late reply!
First of all thank you alltogether for kind remarks. I'll take them as an encouragement to continue to find out the special needs of these autumn flowering treasures.
After two seasons with an excellent flower display it seems the methods mentioned in this Forum (Narcissus miniatus & others/Oct. 21, 2008) are a good beginning but surely there is a lot to improve, among other things I'll look for an energy saving method for warming during resting stage. Also a sufficient temperature, the best date for start and the length has to be calculated - this is a lot!
@ Fred:
Narcissus x perezlarae is sterile - so multiplication via seeds isn't possible. The others were obtained from seeds or come from friends
@ Maggi & Anthony:
Yes, because these species are not frost hardy they were cultivated in a greenhouse.
I believe from the factors feeding/watering/compost/temperature (light) a warm
and dry rest during dormancy is the most important one.
If you live in an area with a lot of sunshine and warmth during summer (in Germany Hans J.'s region) the cultivation of these daffodils is far easier.
Gerd
-
Sounds like I could likely grow them here easily enough then. Providing I keep them frost free of course. Is it "frost" or cold temperatures that do them in?
-
Sounds like I could likely grow them here easily enough then. Providing I keep them frost free of course. Is it "frost" or cold temperatures that do them in?
Paul,
According their origin in Southern Spain I believe they survive some degrees (C) below zero but only for a short time. Cold temperatures in winter aren't the problem.
Gerd
-
Ah, frost on the new growth is the problem is it? I still might have to find out whether Marcus H down in Tas has any on offer this year..... would be wonderful to grow some of them. I have seedlings coming along of one of the autumn species and they're a few years old now, so hoping for flowers one of these years. They've done well for me so far, so fingers crossed.
-
Narcissus miniatus - with german ancestry. :D
I have seen this species normally with one or two flowers per stalk - so I was suprised when I recognized it produced 4! The plant produces a pod - but I do not know if it is pollinized by itself (if possible) or by pollen of N. elegans which is growing near by. ::)
-
Ah, frost on the new growth is the problem is it?
Paul, frost is a problem all the time when in growth!
Gerd
-
Thanks Gerd.
Very nice. I wonder if your plants of german ancestry are similar to my seedlings of german ancestry.
-
Narcissus serotinus. A little late, but better late than never.
-
Nice, Michael.
-
A species which normally blooms in spring here - but thanks to a friend of this forum now also the more eastern distributed autumn flowering form of Narcissus tazetta grows here. :D
-
Hans,
Beautiful shot of a nice plant - the flowering time suits to produce hybrids with Narcissus miniatus!
I add some pics from today here
1. first Narcissus miniatus - just opening
2. + 3. Narcissus x perezlarae
Gerd
-
Gerd,
I've said it before, and I'll likely say it again.... Very nice!!
-
Narcissus miniatus is really attractive in the way it shows the flowerhead at different angles, Gerd...if the sun is out do they all 'look' the same way or are they very stiff in the stem?
-
Thank you, Paul!
Narcissus miniatus is really attractive in the way it shows the flowerhead at different angles, Gerd...if the sun is out do they all 'look' the same way or are they very stiff in the stem?
Robin: The flowers are in a different stage of developing - opening. When they are developed totally they were held in a similar angle to the stem but were not pointing to the same direction - not like sunflowers do.
Gerd
-
The N. miniatus is a real delight. Gerd, you are so clever with these exquisite little autumn species. Each is a jewel. Thank you for your lovely pictures.
-
Wonderful shots of your perfectly grown Narcissi, Gerd!
Hans,
Beautiful shot of a nice plant - the flowering time suits to produce hybrids with Narcissus miniatus!
Generally I prefer the pure species and try to avoid artificial/horticultural hybrids - but I have to admit, because a of curiosity about fertility of F1 hybrids, I put some pollen of N. elegans on it. As a side effect it could result in a very floriferous gardenplant.
-
Thank you, Paul!
Narcissus miniatus is really attractive in the way it shows the flowerhead at different angles, Gerd...if the sun is out do they all 'look' the same way or are they very stiff in the stem?
Robin: The flowers are in a different stage of developing - opening. When they are developed totally they were held in a similar angle to the stem but were not pointing to the same direction - not like sunflowers do.
Gerd
Thanks for that, Gerd, as here with most of the garden facing South on a slope in front of the chalet means that the flowers face that way and you often only see the back of a flower head - which is fine but with Narcissus and Daffodils the front shows their character
-
After a few drops of rain and they start...
N. serotinus from the Israeli coast and a beautiful N. miniatus - orange form received last year from a nice forum member.
-
Wonderful little gems Oron !!
-
Very nice Oron
-
"Orange" may be a little optomistic :) but very attractive anyway. I guess Israel's climate will suit these little gems.
-
I saw Narcissus miniatus growing in a car park come rubbish tip in Mallorca last week. It seems that everywhere that wasn't road, hotel or ploughed field, or behind a wall or barbed wire fence with a notice that said 'privado' was spoiled by mountains of rubbish, from discarded plastic bottles to mattresses, fridges and sofas!? ??? I thought Scotland was bad (and don't blame the children, it's the adults they learn it from)!
-
Was the weather to your liking??
-
Much better than I expected. No rain, although Wednesday was cloudy and very windy. Monday and Tuesday were sunny and hot; Thursday - Saturday were sunny with a cold north wind. Not cold enough to keep the kids out of the pool or sea though! 8)
-
Here's a couple of pics of Narcissus miniatus taken near Ca'n Picafort, Mallorca last week.
-
Fabulous, Anthony, so cute :)
-
My only two autumn flowering ones
Narcissus tazetta
Narcissus serotinus
-
Good gracious Tony. I'm in awe of your success with tazetta. :o I rarely get it to flower in the spring, but then this must be an autumn form? One I must look out for.
-
Tony - Pretty little daffs!
Is the tazetta smaller than 'normal' ones and does autumn flowering occur constantly?
Gerd
-
Anthony it is in full flower at this time in Turkey.
Flora of Turkey gives Nov-May but I have seen it in flower every time I have been at the end of October.
Gerd I do not think I have never seen a 'normal one' at this time of year to compare.I have a Greek one which flowers in January and that does seem larger
-
Will you have seed Tony?
-
Will you have seed Tony?
spare bulb of interest?
-
Tony,
That spidery tazetta is a cracker. I just love it. And in autumn too that just adds so much. Thanks for showing us. 8)
-
Howdy All,
Still have a couple of Narcissus bulbocodiums flowering here..... this one is Narcisssus bulbocodium serotinus. A very good flowerer every year without fail. Always late and reliable!! 8) I've had the hoop petticoats in flower now since May/June in their assorted forms. A pretty darn good season if you ask me. ;D
Please click on the pics for a larger version.
-
Nice to see Paul, they do extend over some timeframe these petticoats, it makes them even nicer, I still have the normal bulbocodium flowering but these are the last and will have to wait for April/May next year-will be here before I know it though.
The seasons are sure going to fly now with the mountains and cicadas in summer and daffs and assorted bulbs from Autumn to spring.
My son is 4 in Jan, where has the time gone.
Will be good to see the first Northern daffs.
-
Kees,
I assume you've seen the autumn daffodils topic? We're already seeing the first northern daffs, and have been for a couple of weeks at least. 8)
-
All my Hoop petticoat daffs have finished but I've been promised some of these which I photographed at Doug Bryce's place.
[attachthumb=1][attachthumb=2]
He got them as "Golden Dragon" and was told they are always late flowering, so I guess the ones I already have under that name may not be true!
cheers
fermi
-
Fermi,
I have 'Golden Dragon' in flower here as well at the moment, although they got decimated by slugs so there isn't a photo. Seems a little brighter a yellow than the serotinus, and perhaps a bit less robust in the flowers.
-
Two early flowering Narcissus to start the season here.
Narcissus albidus albidus
Narcissus mesatlanticus hyb
-
There can hardly be a day in the whole year when a Narcissus isn't in flower somewhere. :)
-
Tony - Pretty little diffs!
Is the gazette smaller than 'normal' ones and does autumn flowering occur constantly?
Gerd
Gerd,
Here we have two variants of N. tazetta, the first is an autumnal that blooms just days after the first rain, usually end of October to end of November, growing in more rocky areas, in a way more slender, similar to the one Tony W. shown.
The other variant is the more robust, familiar type that blooms much later, February to March, mainly in low altitudes, often flooded fields.
Often the two variants grow at only a few hundred meters of distance from each other..
-
Gerd,
Here we have two variants of N. tazetta, the first is an autumnal that blooms just days after the first rain, usually end of October to end of November, growing in more rocky areas, in a way more slender, similar to the one Tony W. shown.
The other variant is the more robust, familiar type that blooms much later, February to March, mainly in low altitudes, often flooded fields.
Often the two variants grow at only a few hundred meters of distance from each other..
Oron, Thank you for this interesting information - it seems the two variants are in
need for separation. Aren't there any investigations concerning this topic?
Here progress of flowering of the autumnal daffodils was somewhat reduced by a cold spell - so only a few new pics.
1. + 2. Narcissus miniatus opening in a different color
3. Narcissus miniatus - two flowers per stem
4. Narcissus serotinus - the first one
5. +6. Narcissus x moronensis spec. nov.
- which is a natural occuring cross between N. serotinus and
Narcissus cavanillesii (humilis)
7. Narcissus x perezlarae (miniatus x cavanillesii) for
comparison
Gerd
-
Gerd, you are the man! ;D
-
Beautiful Gerd.
-
Very beautiful Gerd !! Despite the cold ! ;)
-
Gerd,
All these autumn flowering species and hybrids you show are really amazing. Thanks so much for showing us. 8)
-
Gerd
Very nice, thank you. Can you explain me (a novice !) what is botanically the difference between serotinus and miniatus. Thank you
Dom
-
Thank you for the nice comments alltogether!
Gerd
Very nice, thank you. Can you explain me (a novice !) what is botanically the difference between serotinus and miniatus. Thank you
Dom
Dominique,
Narcissus miniatus was separated from serotinus by Donnison-Morgan, Koopowitz and Zonneveld in 2005. N. serotinus occurs in North Africa, Portugal and the south-western parts of Spain, the other species was found in south-eastern and eastern Spain, Mallorca, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Israel, Lebanon?
In general N. miniatus is more robust than serotinus, the corona becames orange when aging (miniatus means golden) while the corona of serotinus is more or less yellow. Also the shape of the tube differs. Please have a look at the pics I have shown in this Forum - Bulbs General - Narcissus miniatus and others, Reply # 57 and 58 - Oct. 21, 2008 http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2496.msg59351#msg59351
Gerd
-
Lovely N albidus, Michael - altogether a gorgeous show of hoop petticoats - looking forward to some Tonyg gave me flowering next spring
-
Shouldn't these be in the autumn flowering narcissi section?
-
Gerd if I understand correctly then my serotinus from Turkey is now miniatus.
I hopefully will see several thousand next week and will try and take some photographs.
I am totally sceptical on these divisions and may even discover some new species whilst away.
Whatever they are called they are very lovely.
Having seen them before a straightforward observation is that those that grow in damper ground are more robust than those in dry ground.
-
thank's Gerd for all this pictures, N. serotinus also occurs in Corsica ;)
-
See reply 1173 above ......... Maggi. ::) I notice that you have changed the title of the page. The narcissus page it too big anyway and now that the southern hemisphere season (which although nice, is not relevant to me) seems to be over.
-
Anthony, this forum currently has 113966 Posts in 3722 Topics by 965 Members. While I do what I can to keep up with everything and to help have everything in its place... there is only so much one person can accomplish..... and, to be honest, it does not rate very high on my Richter scale whether or not a page has relevance to you. :-*
I notice that you have changed the title of the page.
Not this page.Not yet.... though I may do! :(
The narcissus page it too big anyway
If posters were to keep to the month titled pages that are sometimes used, then threads would likely be smaller but whether or not that has any benefit is undecided. :-X
I am aware that those in the Southern hemisphere can feel that "their" threads are somewhat on the periphery of things and the "inclusive" Narcissus thread was an attempt to remedy that by keeping all together. :)
I have now decided that I will solve any difficulties by merging the whole jing bang. ;D
-
Better a lumper than a splitter be...
Good lord, just got this message:
Warning - while you were reading 122 new replies have been posted. Are we all replying to Maggi?
-
No, Anne, only Anthony! :(
-
;D ;D ;D
-
I generally like long threads but here one sees only 5 pages at the time so to goto page 56 out of 77 takes some time.
Is there a "goto page" function somewhere as I have seen on other forums?
It would be helpful to check in the long threads that are sometimes years of knowledge.
I like to see things from the upside down world and might have missed some of the fun if I had to look at a special thread for that.
I can understand that a special thread for them also has some points but we can not get it both ways unless we have the posts in more than one place.
I love the work You are doing Maggi and sometimes comes with suggestions of threads that can be moved to newly made subdivisions and accept Your calls as final even if I sometimes disagree. Luckely that happen very seldom.
All the best
Joakim
-
Thank you, Joakim, it is great to have constructive suggestions from Forumists.
I will ask Fred if there is a chance to have a "got to page X" feature, that would be helpful.
-
Friends, Webmaster Fred has added a "got to page X" function to the Forum! Hope this helps !
Many thanks, Fast Fred! 8) :-* :-*
-
Now, that IS a real good suggestion and an enormous IMPROVEMENT
This really helps to catch up on some threads when (like me) being away for nearly three weeks!
Thank you Joakim, Maggie and F. F. Fred :D
-
Aha, so it's thanks to Fred for creating it and to Joakrim for his brainwave idea - 8)
-
That is a great improvement and I saw it on an other forum so it was not much my idea. To be honest I pushed the wrong button to discover it. ::)
Here it will be of much bigger value than the other forum since the threads are so long (and good here). ;D
Thanks Fred and great work
Joakim
-
Gerd if I understand correctly then my serotinus from Turkey is now miniatus.
I am totally sceptical on these divisions and may even discover some new species whilst away.
Tony,
I am in line with you concerning there are a lot of divisions of Narcissus (and other genera) which make no sense. Contrary to that the separation of miniatus from serotinus was overdue. Besides a lot of morphological differences serotinus has a chromosome set of 2 n = 10 (20 is also recorded) and miniatus has 2 n = 30. Until now no hybrids between them were found although there are a few stations near Sevilla where both species grow side by side.
The distribution of these autumn daffodils around the Mediterranean isn't documented well. Plants from Cyprus and Crete which I saw belong to miniatus, those from Italy, Greece, Turkey and Israel probably too (according pics).
It would be great if you'll make some close-ups of the flowers from the Turkish population for comparison.
Gerd
-
Sorry Anthony, but season not quite ended here yet. Narcissus biflorus opened it's first (and only for this year) flower yesterday. :o
-
Here is my first Narcissus of the new season, and about a month earlier than last year-Narcissus romieuxii x N. cantabricus 'Nylon Group'. This one from the Rob Potterton 'stable'
-
That's about right David. We always reckon on 'Nylon' starting in April. I'm calling it 'Nylon' Group now. I have so many that look the same but under many names or non-names that I feel justified in lumping them, for garden purposes, at least.
-
Lovely looking Narcissus, David, photo one is delightful. Why on earth are they called the 'Nylon' Group? Nothing synthetic about this beauty
-
Why on earth are they called the 'Nylon' Group? Nothing synthetic about this beauty
'Sheer' beauty, Robin?
They grow nice and 'tight'?
Men are instantly attracted to them?
They hold up well?
??? :D :D
-
Cliff, you are incorrigible ;D Is there a fishnet group as well? :o
-
Robin,
Don't encourage him.... he's been stocking up on jokes for years!! ;D ;D
You realise of course that with jokes like these we'll need a ladder to get out of the pile of manure our great and fearless leader will dump on us. ;)
-
ssssshhhh :-X ;)
-
Lovely looking Narcissus, David, photo one is delightful. Why on earth are they called the 'Nylon' Group? Nothing synthetic about this beauty
Robin, perhaps the best way of explaining is for me to quote from John Blanchard's book "Narcissus: A Guide to Wild Daffodils"
"I have mentioned that hybrids have been raised from crosses N. romiuxii x N. cantabricus. This is how the cultivars bred by my father and named 'Tarlaton', 'Muslin', 'Taffeta' and 'Jessamy' were produced, var. foliosus being the pollen parent. This work does not deal with deliberate hybrids, but perhaps I should explain the origin of the widely distributed cultivar 'Nylon' which causes concern because it is not uniform. It is really a name which should never have been given, because it was bestowed by Alec Gray on all the seedlings my father sent to him from which 'Tarlatan' and the others had been selected. 'Nylon' is therefore not a clone, hence it lacks uniformity, and is what in other genera would be known as a grex hybrid"
On the Forum we have discussed many times how best to describe the many variants, with the name 'Nylon', in circulation and I think we came down to 'Nylon Group' as perhaps the best way to describe them.
-
Is there a fishnet group as well? :o
Now we are trawling the depths! :D
-
Cliff,
I think a long line needs to be drawn under this conversation. ;)
-
Gosh, seems I've missed most of the nylon thread!? ::)
-
Darn it Anthony.
-
Thanks for your posting David that explains about the Nylon Group and has filled a hole in my knowledge ;)
-
Thank you David, for imposing a little sense on this incorrigible lot - until your last post that is. >:(
-
Yes Lesley, we are very encouragable, aren't we? ;D ;D ;)
-
Some additions to my last pics - unfortunately none of Narcissus cavanillesii (humilis) which gave a poor show and no N. viridiflorus which will appear later hopefully.
1. Narcissus miniatus - a form with small petals
2. Narcissus miniatus - greenish when opening
3. Narcissus miniatus - orange tinted
4. offspring of a cross N. miniatus orange x orange - unfortunately a little bit
damaged by slugs
6. + 7. Narcissus x moronensis spec. nov.
Gerd
-
Gerd,
it seems you are enjoying a splendid autuum season, too ;D
The miniatus orange tinted is a stunner - wow 8)
-
I agree with Armin.....Gerd, some fascinating results and I would like to know more about how you achieved them :)
-
Beautiful as always, Gerd. Thanks.
-
It was a grimy old day here today but looking bright in the greenhouse with pots of little daffs all over the place. Here's one of them Narcissus cantabricus var. foliosus
-
Looking good David ! :D
Mine aren't even showing buds yet...
-
Thanks to Armin, Paul and Robin!
I agree with Armin.....Gerd, some fascinating results and I would like to know more about how you achieved them :)
Robin, Narcissus miniatus with slightly orange tinted petals were found occasionally in some populations - maybe caused by an influence from other autumn flowering species. If you pollinate an 'orange' flower with another one of the same color you can expect offspring of an superior orange.
The plant shown orange x orange is the first one which built flowers from my own seeds - unfortunately I didn't note the date when sown.
Gerd
-
Very beautiful David 8)
Congratulation!
-
Thanks Luc and Armin, many more to come.
-
The plant shown orange x orange is the first one which built flowers from my own seeds
Thanks for explaining Gerd - ultimately is it the centre that is the focal point of interest or the orange tinted petals?
-
[- ultimately is it the centre that is the focal point of interest or the orange tinted petals?
Robin,
I'm not sure wether I got the sense of your question right.
I guess you mean what was special for me - the color of the corona (which is the center) or the color of the petals?
The orange tinted petals are unusual while an orange corona is typical for Narcissus miniatus. Besides some hybrids and the very tiny Narcissus cavanillesii typical autumn flowering daffodils with yellow petals are unknown.
Gerd
-
Thanks Luc and Armin, many more to come.
Thank goodness it will be 2010 soon. :D
-
Look what I found in the garden today,a bit battered by the heavy rain and wind last night.Never had one this early.
Narcissus bulbocodium
-
It's still in flower here too Michael. Not many bulb species can be said to flower for six months. 8)
-
Look what I found in the garden today,a bit battered by the heavy rain and wind last night.Never had one this early.
Narcissus bulbocodium
Good to see what mine will look like in a few years :D
-
Here's a few pics of a clone I have labelled as Narcissus romieuxii var. mesatlanticus. According to John Blanchard it should be yellow?
-
David, my Narcissus labelled as romieuxii var. mesatlanticus is white,got it from RW of BT a few years ago. I have bred some nice white hybs from it.
-
Very interesting plants! Gerd your onange forms of N. miniatus are wonderful
-
Waoooo ! rafa, what ........ a blue sky ;D
really nice plants !
Do you get seeds from N. viridiflorus ?
-
Hello Fred,
I will tr to get seeds of this species from wild collection, but I'm not sure if this plant produce seeds, if so I will send you some.
-
I also will try some hand pollinating with mine.....
-
maybe we could exchange pollen?
-
Why not ?
do you have several clones ?
I should have 3 different ones but i wonder if the pollen is big enough to be send easily by post ???
-
Rafa and Fred, mine is open to day. Pic to morrow if sun. Only one clone, one flower
-
Very interesting plants! Gerd your onange forms of N. miniatus are wonderful
Thank you Rafa, but Narcissus viridiflorus is superior. I can't tell why - but this ancient daffodil fascinates me most - maybe because of the strange glistening of the petals when a sunray reached them.
Gerd
-
David, my Narcissus labelled as romieuxii var. mesatlanticus is white,got it from RW of BT a few years ago. I have bred some nice white hybs from it.
Hi Michael,
I do wonder if really we both have a hybrid? John Blanchard says "..... Mesatlanticus as distributed in commerce is a pale yellow form which is well within the limits of variation of var. romieuxii, so unless it can be shown that wild plants are distinct, I would not think it is a name which should be perpetuated and it is not included in Fernanes's Keys...."
Whatever it is it's still very pretty.
-
David,see the bulb log here,Ian has the white form.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2004/171104/log.html
And here is a yellow form.
http://www.blomhoej.dk/haven2/i-p/1080/index.htm
and the pacific bulb society,
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusSpeciesTwo
I am confused,
-
Michael, I'm not confused by being confused, it's a state I'm well used to.
Interesting pics on Ian's Log, 47-2004, and I see he feels that mesatlanticus is a cross between Narcissus romieuxii and N. cantabricus foliosus. John Lonsdale's clone looks very much like ours. I wonder if any Forumists have a yellow clone?
-
Mine under that name is pale yellow, about the colour of 'Julia Jane.'
-
Yours may well be the real thing Lesley.
-
I believe that N. rom. meastlanticus is another one of these muddled plants... Ian thinks it is likely a hybrid. All of ours, from whatever source, seed or otherwise are that nice "just off" white. :-\ Never seen a really yellow one!
-
My stock is yellow, but nowhere near in flower yet.
-
I believe that N. rom. meastlanticus is another one of these muddled plants...
i.e., a bulbocodium. These plants make Sternbergias look like child's play as regards identification & classification.
-
I believe that N. rom. meastlanticus is another one of these muddled plants...
i.e., a bulbocodium. These plants make Sternbergias look like child's play as regards identification & classification.
Yes, well..... I don't know why we even try to sort them out.... it's obvious none of them ever read a book and it doesn't seem to hinder them in their existence! I'm working very hard just to love them for themselves! ;D
-
Narcissus cantabricus ?
This is the name under which Anne Wright received & distributes this attractive hoop-petticoat.
However, I wonder about its identity since it doesn't seem to correspond with any of Blanchard's descriptions of the various forms of N. cantabricus. It opens quite a strong yellow which fades to off-white in about 48 hrs. However, the style remains yellow which, following Blanchard, might suggest N. romieuxii or a hybrid with this.
Both Anne & I would be interested to hear any comments on the identity of this plant.
-
I have been trying for ten years to get Narcissus cantabricus ssp. cantabricus and so far have failed. I have had bulbs from four different sources and grown some from seed, but none were true.
-
Narcissus cantabricus ?
This is the name under which Anne Wright received & distributes this attractive hoop-petticoat.
I would agree that it is not Narcissus cantabricus cantabricus but a form/ hybrid of N. romieuxii - possibly a seedling from the plant known as N. romieuxii mesatlanticus.
The only N. cantabricus that flowers at this time is N. cantabricus foliosus.
Narcissus cantabricus cantabricus does not flower until mid March for me and it has crystal white tube, petals, style and filaments.
I have attached a picture of my plant for reference.
-
I have been trying for ten years to get Narcissus cantabricus ssp. cantabricus and so far have failed. I have had bulbs from four different sources and grown some from seed, but none were true.
Join this little club Michael.
Nowadays I grow most of my romieuxii "named" forms just as N. romieuxii, except the very distinctive ones such as 'Atlas Gold' or 'Joy Bishop.' Can't see any difference beyween say, mesatlanticus and rifanus, all slightly different depending on where they were sourced.
-
Narcissus cantabricus ?
This is the name under which Anne Wright received & distributes this attractive hoop-petticoat.
I would agree that it is not Narcissus cantabricus cantabricus but a form/ hybrid of N. romieuxii - possibly a seedling from the plant known as N. romieuxii mesatlanticus.
The only N. cantabricus that flowers at this time is N. cantabricus foliosus.
Narcissus cantabricus cantabricus does not flower until mid March for me and it has crystal white tube, petals, style and filaments.
I have attached a picture of my plant for reference.
Nice to know that you agree Ian.
N. cantabricus foliosus is just coming into flower here. Last year a pure white bulbocodium received as N. cantabricus 'Antiquera' (sic) was in flower on 4th Jan - though whether it is this species is open to question.
These bulbocodiums were put on earth both to delight & to torment us.
-
Thank you for your comments - I'll list it in future with several question marks, and folks can buy it as seen! ::) That is a gorgeous cantabricus cantabricus you have there Ian.
-
N. cantabricus foliosus is just coming into flower here. Last year a pure white bulbocodium received as N. cantabricus 'Antiquera' (sic) was in flower on 4th Jan - though whether it is this species is open to question.
These bulbocodiums were put on earth both to delight & to torment us.
Antiquera is a town north of Malaga and I suppose bulbs or seeds were collected in this area and given this name. I don't know whether it is a clonal name or just a geographical name. The picture below was taken near Antiquera in mid February and I think that Rafa confirmed these some time ago as N cantabricus cantabricus.
-
Diane - I remember looking at this photo earlier in the year. However, the plants I had as N. cantabricus 'Antiquera' were not quite like this in their first year of flowering. In particular the style was not exserted. Perhaps this will change in the second year, perhaps not. (By the way, I thought the name was 'Antequera', but maybe the spelling is variable).
-
Diane - I remember looking at this photo earlier in the year. However, the plants I had as N. cantabricus 'Antiquera' were not quite like this in their first year of flowering. In particular the style was not exserted. Perhaps this will change in the second year, perhaps not. (By the way, I thought the name was 'Antequera', but maybe the spelling is variable).
Doing a quick web check, it does seem that both spellings of Antiquera/Antequera are used.
-
6. + 7. Narcissus x moronensis spec. nov.
Gerd,
Nice pictures, I've just been to the S. of Spain and have many similar pictures - except n. x moronensis which is new to me. I did see a lot of N. miniatus near Moron (good strong vigorous ones with 4-5 flowers /stem). Can you tell me more about N x moronensis, precise parentage, where it was found, when & where published and by whom? - Your pictures look close to N. cavanillesii - what are the distinguishing characteristics? Are the flowers much larger than either of the parents. I apologise if you have already given all this information - I tend to dip into the 'Forum' from time to time and may miss things.
Brian Duncan
-
Rafa, are your flowers miniatus or serotinus. I guess I'll have to rename mine, as they all come from Turkey or Greece? It seems it is serotinus I don't have?! :-\
-
Anthony, they are N. miniatus, but I labeled them Narcissus deficiens Herbert, following our Spanish botanist. This species is the one that occurs in the Mediterranean and Narcissus serotinus grows only in North Morocco and South Spain/Portugal. So your narcisus is N. miniatus.
N. x moronensis is N. serotinus x N. cavanillesii, it s the old N. x perez-larae. Perez Lara described this hybrid with N. miniatus and N. x cavanillesii as parents and Gerd has described this hybrid between N. serotinus and N. cavanillesii.
It was published in Herbertia: Narcissus × moronensis G.Knoche -- Herbertia 62: 48 (45-58; figs. 4-8). 2009 ["2008"]
-
Anthony, they are N. miniatus, but I labeled them Narcissus deficiens Herbert, following our Spanish botanist. This species is the one that occurs in the Mediterranean and Narcissus serotinus grows only in North Morocco and South Spain/Portugal. So your narcisus is N. miniatus.
N. x moronensis is N. serotinus x N. cavanillesii, it s the old N. x perez-larae. Perez Lara described this hybrid with N. miniatus and N. x cavanillesii as parents and Gerd has described this hybrid between N. serotinus and N. cavanillesii.
It was published in Herbertia: Narcissus × moronensis G.Knoche -- Herbertia 62: 48 (45-58; figs. 4-8). 2009 ["2008"]
Hello Rafa,
Thanks for answering my question to Gerd. But first, you said you labelled N. miniatus as N. deficiens. This may well prove to be the correct name - as you know there is much controversy. The distinction between the yellow cupped, mainly single flowered N. serotinus and the larger, orange cupped, often multiflowered scape of what we now call N. miniatus has been long recognised and earlier names, your N. deficiens and N. obsoletus might gain favour by the precedence rules of nomenclature. This controversy is interestingly covered by two articles in the current RHS Daffodil, Tulip and Snowdrop Yearbook by Dr John David RHS Head of Botany and Harold Koopowitz, the author of N. miniatus. There are also many other interesting articles on snowdrops, tulips, species daffodils, etc. in the Year Book.
-
North Morocco and South Spain/Portugal. So your narcisus is N. miniatus.
N. x moronensis is N. serotinus x N. cavanillesii, it s the old N. x perez-larae. Perez Lara described this hybrid with N. miniatus and N. x cavanillesii as parents and Gerd has described this hybrid between N. serotinus and N. cavanillesii.
It was published in Herbertia: Narcissus × moronensis G.Knoche -- Herbertia 62: 48 (45-58; figs. 4-8). 2009 ["2008"]
Hello again Rafa and Gerd,
I must have hit a wrong button - I had not finished commenting. Ref. N.x perezlarae it was published as N. cavanillesii x N. serotinus ( the latter we now regard as N. miniatus, pending outcome of the debate). The question I ask, is it appropriate to publish a new hybrid name under this precise same parentage until someone properly publishes the revised parentage of N. x perezlarae. I am not a Taxonomist or a botanist but I find this confusing and I think great care needs to be taken in the creation of new names to avoid any risk of duplication. I will try to find the references you have noted to study further.
Brian Duncan
-
Hello again Rafa and Gerd,
I must have hit a wrong button - I had not finished commenting. Ref. N.x perezlarae it was published as N. cavanillesii x N. serotinus ( the latter we now regard as N. miniatus, pending outcome of the debate). The question I ask, is it appropriate to publish a new hybrid name under this precise same parentage until someone properly publishes the revised parentage of N. x perezlarae. I am not a Taxonomist or a botanist but I find this confusing and I think great care needs to be taken in the creation of new names to avoid any risk of duplication. I will try to find the references you have noted to study further.
Brian Duncan
Brian,
Please read the Narcissus miniatus publication by Donnison-Morgan, Koopowitz, Zonneveld and Howe in the RHS Daffodil, Snowdrop and Tulip Yearbook 2005-2006 where the existence of two different species, miniatus and serotinus s.str. is well documented by morphological differences, chromosome counts and flow cytometric measurements of nuclear DNA content.
In the Herbertia publication mentioned I used the same methods which provide evidence that N. x perezlarae was a cross of miniatus x cavanillesii. I have to admit that taxonomical changes are confusing especially concerning daffodils.
If you want me to send the Herbertia article please send me a pm.
Gerd
-
Today in flower Narcissus viridiflorus
-
Today in flower Narcissus viridiflorus
Alessandro - meravigliosa!
I add Narcissus x alleniae , the hybrid viridiflorus x miniatus here. Sorry, pics are a little bit out of focus.
Gerd
-
Gerd
beautiful also the N.x alleniae, these minimus turn out difficult to photograph
-
Gerd,
I like the hybrid even more than the viridiflorus species I think (and I like the speces!!). Thanks for the pics everyone.
-
I must move my plants into a warmer/lighter winter environment, though how I do the latter I don't know?! :(
-
Narcissus serotinus pictured this week at ruins of Hieraklion in SE Turkey.
Janis
-
Janis, what a find that is exquisite :)
-
Beautiful, Janis. Nice of the plant to arrange it's flowers so perfectly for photography too. ;D Great stuff. 8)
-
Wonderfull clump Janis, and well captured !!
-
Janis, those white flowers made me envious ::)
-
Narcissus serotinus pictured this week at ruins of Hieraklion in SE Turkey.
Janis
It must be fantastic to see such plants in such a setting. I have some young plants of Fritillaria persica which I obtained as 'Petra Form' and though they're not flowering size yet, in my mind I always see them blooming against the cliff face buildings of the rose-red city. In reality they will probably come from somewhere like the area near Petra pictured on page 32 of the Oncos thread.
-
Shouldn't we be calling these Narcissus miniatus?
-
A thoroughly lousy day today, as was yesterday and is promised for the weekend! The greenhouse is looking a picture though albeit a soggy one at the moment.
Here is Narcissus romieuxii 'Julia Jane' obtained a couple of years ago from Miniature Bulbs and labelled 'JCA 805'. JCA is Jim Archibald and JCA 805 was his 1963 collection, and named for his daughter.
-
A thoroughly lousy day today, as was yesterday and is promised for the weekend! The greenhouse is looking a picture though albeit a soggy one at the moment.
Here is Narcissus romieuxii 'Julia Jane' obtained a couple of years ago from Miniature Bulbs and labelled 'JCA 805'. JCA is Jim Archibald and JCA 805 was his 1963 collection, and named for his daughter.
David - I have the same plants from the same source though not yet in flower. I suspect they are seedlings & therefore not entitled to the clonal name. What appears to be genuine 'Julia Jane' is distributed by Pottertons.
-
Gerry, many thanks I was a bit suspicous that it couldn't be real given that it was from a 1963 collection. I wonder if Narcissus romieuxii 'Julia Jane Group' might be a better name?
-
two more Narcissus tazetta,one from Cyprus and one from Greece.
-
Tony, Beautiful late autumnal tazetta versions!
Akamas is also a good place for other interesting plants - Gladiolus triphyllus and Tulipa cypria for instance.
Gerd
-
Gerry, many thanks I was a bit suspicous that it couldn't be real given that it was from a 1963 collection. I wonder if Narcissus romieuxii 'Julia Jane Group' might be a better name?
David - Possible I suppose, though maybe misleading. I label mine N. romieuxii ex JCA 805.
-
David,
'Julia Jane' is to my understanding a single clone, so labelling it as part of a group would then start to call into question the name 'Julia Jane' itself. It should just be a seedling ex Julia Jane at the very most. It doesn't look flat enough to be the real thing, although that could also be differences in climate etc. Here, 'Julia Jane' is pretty much a flat flower.
-
Wow, Tony very interesting plants.
-
I have what is labelled Narcissus 'Camoro' flowering now.
-
No pic Anthony? The original cross, N. cantabricus x N. romieuxii, was made by Margaret and Henry Taylor did you get your bulb from them or from the original source, or is it likely to be a seedling?
-
I agree and very strongly, that the name 'Julia Jane Group' would be very misleading, and in fact, quite wrong, since, as Paul points out, JJ is a clone so can't (shouldn't, mustn't) vary. The ex JCA 805 is appropriate and that collection - I think we've said all this before - gave us not only JJ but also 'Atlas Gold,' 'Treble Chance,' 'Joy Bishop,' and perhaps others, selected and then multiplied vegetatively. Alternatively, you could simply call yours N. romieuxii form. I'm going for the latter now myself, as I have so many seedlings from all of them but especially from JJ that while all very similar, they are several generations away from the original collection.
-
No pic Anthony? The original cross, N. cantabricus x N. romieuxii, was made by Margaret and Henry Taylor did you get your bulb from them or from the original source, or is it likely to be a seedling?
I'll take a pic tomorrow. Mine came from up north.
-
'Julia Jane' is very reliable & comes up every year at about this time. Perhaps she deserves her own thread?
-
'Julia Jane' is very reliable & comes up every year at about this time. Perhaps she deserves her own thread?
She already does, Gerry.........http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=245.msg4949;topicseen#msg4949
-
'Julia Jane' is very reliable & comes up every year at about this time. Perhaps she deserves her own thread?
She already does, Gerry.........http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=245.msg4949;topicseen#msg4949
Many thanks Maggi. Where would we be without you?
-
Labels amended now, to "ex JCA 805"
Thanks for the link Maggi I'd forgotten that otherwise wouldn't have opened my big mouth.
-
Happy to help, David and Gerry.... it is tough to keep up with the volume of info on the forum.....I shudder to think how many trees would have been cut down to print books of all this info... or how many hundreds of gallons of ink..... :D ;)
-
Thanks for the link Maggi I'd forgotten that otherwise wouldn't have opened my big mouth.
That's what mouths are for David, and cake of course.
-
And chocolate, Lesley. Well until they find some way to give it intravenously of course. ;)
-
Paul I wrote chocolate first then changed it for cake, this note for David rather than for MAggi. I'm not keen on the intravenous thought though. It would bypass the tastebuds. ;D
-
;D ;D ;D
-
Can anybody identify this narcissus?
I believe it is a romieuxii cultivar, but I am not sure. I bought it some years ago labelled Narcissus cyclamineus.
I grow it in the open garden and the flower opened some days ago. Then it was slightly creamy. The flower is 45 mm across on a 10 cm stem.
Poul
-
What a cute thing to have in the open garden at this time, Poul.
Coming so early it is a N. cantrabricus, probably foliosus....quite a surprise from a purchase of cyclamineus!
-
What a cute thing to have in the open garden at this time, Poul.
Coming so early it is a N. cantrabricus, probably foliosus....quite a surprise from a purchase of cyclamineus!
Poul - I'm inclined to agree with Maggi. You can confirm that it is N. cantabricus foliosus by the presence of a pedicel (a short length of stem between the top of the main stem & the ovary) - no other forms of N. cantabricus have this. Incidentally, that is a very large flower, much bigger than mine!
-
not really the place to ask, but I want to find more information on hybridizing in the genus Narcissus. I've checked the various society websites, but, if there is any info specifically for hybridizing, I've missed it. I have recently been gifted some nice seedlings and a few irish-bred cultivars and want to start working more seriously with the genus.
Also, shouldn't Narcissus have it's own forum? Strikes me as important enough and having the southern and northern threads together is a bit overwhelming.
ciao für now,
Jamie
-
Maggi, Gerry,
Thanks for the identification, I will label it N. cantrabricus foliosus.
I am not so keen on Narcissus, but when I first saw the grass like leaves, I knew that it could not be cyclamineus.
I had decided that if they not flowered this season I would dig them up and put in a pot in my bulb frame. But now that they are in flower I am in doubt. How hardy are they? The last winters in Denmark have been quite warm. I bought them as 2-year old bulbs and now 3 years later 2 out of 3 are flowering. They seem to be quite happy in the garden, but maybe I have been lucky.
Poul
-
They won't take deep frost penetrating into the ground, Poul, so perhaps it is just the luck of milder winters in your area that has lead to their survival to now. :-\
How brave are you feeling? You could take a chance, or lift to a pot..... I'd lift them; they last a good time and it is so good to be able to study them closely when in flower at a time that can be rather unpleasant out of doors for kneeling to apprciate such gems and the risks of frost are more easily avoided.
-
Poul,
I agree with Maggie, lift them and maintain in a pot. We have similar climates and, although they are pretty hardy in Cologne (Zone 8 ), they do not flower well as we have very wet Summers most years. Without a dry period, they don't seem to bloom. In a pot, I let them dry out during the Summer and thus get flowers.
-
My viridiflorus in flower
-
My first Narcissus of this season- I think maybe it is N.cantrabicus. Doing quite well considering I dug it out of a tomato bed a few weeks ago, where it has spent the summer rather wet being flooded every few days with lots of tomato food. ???
-
not really the place to ask, but I want to find more information on hybridizing in the genus Narcissus. I've checked the various society websites, but, if there is any info specifically for hybridizing, I've missed it. I have recently been gifted some nice seedlings and a few irish-bred cultivars and want to start working more seriously with the genus.
Also, shouldn't Narcissus have it's own forum? Strikes me as important enough and having the southern and northern threads together is a bit overwhelming.
Jamie
Hopefully someone with the knowledge will point you at daffseek / daffnet ??? :-\ to assist with hybridising.
As I logged in I noted the Narcissus2009 thread is 95 pages - perhaps it should be done as a Monthly thread like Crocus. This would help split N & S peak flowering times. Maybe within a Narcissus section?
-
As I logged in I noted the Narcissus2009 thread is 95 pages - perhaps it should be done as a Monthly thread like Crocus. This would help split N & S peak flowering times. Maybe within a Narcissus section?
A point that has been made and noted, Tony. We're planning that, but Seed Exchange matters are taking a lot of time at the moment! :-X
-
My first Narcissus of this season- I think maybe it is N.cantrabicus. Doing quite well considering I dug it out of a tomato bed a few weeks ago, where it has spent the summer rather wet being flooded every few days with lots of tomato food. ???
Simon - as far as I can tell from your photo this plant has a yellowish style. My understanding of N. cantabricus is that it is pure white throughout. Nevertheless, it is very attractive.
-
As I logged in I noted the Narcissus2009 thread is 95 pages - perhaps it should be done as a Monthly thread like Crocus. This would help split N & S peak flowering times. Maybe within a Narcissus section?
A point that has been made and noted, Tony. We're planning that, but Seed Exchange matters are taking a lot of time at the moment! :-X
AND WE ARE VERY GRATEFUL FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK :-* :-*
-
Thanks, Gerry. As always I am happy to relabel plants if anyone has a name. I am still waiting for the named Narcissus to flower, and I am hoping then that it will look like one of these.
-
OK so this is the story..
I have shown allready this hybrid but not in its natural habitat..
This tiny area where i went this morning is the only location where Narcissus tazetta [var. autumnale] meets populations of Narcissus serotinus.
After quite a short walk i have found two forms of hybrids: the first has more of the tazetta characteristics, robuster, having more flowers per stem, perfumed but not as good as tazetta, wider leaves.
the second hybrid is much more similar to serotinus: flowers held upright, no perfume, slender leaves.
Notice that the leaves are absent in N. serotinus while it is in bloom while both hybrids have them.
in two weeks time I'll go back to check if they are fertile.
This is the reason why i name them differently: N. tazetta x serotinus , N. serotinus x tazetta
-
gorgeous pics Oron ! thank you
-
My viridiflorus in flower
Congratulations - the species is very late and here somewhat more north it seems buds will not open because of decreasing temperatures.
Gerd
-
OK so this is the story..
I have shown allready this hybrid but not in its natural habitat..
This tiny area where i went this morning is the only location where Narcissus tazetta [var. autumnale] meets populations of Narcissus serotinus.
After quite a short walk i have found two forms of hybrids: the first has more of the tazetta characteristics having more flowers per stem, perfumed but not as good as tazetta, wider leaves.
the second hybrid is much more similar to serotinus: flowers held upright, no perfume, slender leaves.
Notice that the leaves are absent in N. serotinus while it is in bloom while both hybrids have them.
in two weeks time I'll go back to check if they are fertile.
This is the reason why i name them differently: N. tazetta x serotinus , N. serotinus x tazetta
Oron, Splendid views - especially the first pic!
It is stated that hybrid offspring is different depending on which of the two parent species acts as the male or the female partner.
Does the order ' tazetta x serotinus ' indicate that N. tazetta is the pollen parent?
Needless to tell that I'm interested in your fertility observations.
Gerd
-
OK so this is the story..
I have shown allready this hybrid but not in its natural habitat..
This tiny area where i went this morning is the only location where Narcissus tazetta [var. autumnale] meets populations of Narcissus serotinus.
After quite a short walk i have found two forms of hybrids: the first has more of the tazetta characteristics having more flowers per stem, perfumed but not as good as tazetta, wider leaves.
the second hybrid is much more similar to serotinus: flowers held upright, no perfume, slender leaves.
Notice that the leaves are absent in N. serotinus while it is in bloom while both hybrids have them.
in two weeks time I'll go back to check if they are fertile.
This is the reason why i name them differently: N. tazetta x serotinus , N. serotinus x tazetta
Oron, Splendid views - especially the first pic!
It is stated that hybrid offspring is different depending on which of the two parent species acts as the male or the female partner.
Does the order ' tazetta x serotinus ' indicate that N. tazetta is the pollen parent?
Needless to tell that I'm interested in your fertility observations.
Gerd
Hi Gerd,
I know that the name given to an hybrid differs by male or female parents which is easy to know when it is produced by human breeders and the whole process is being documented.
But how one can know which is the male parent in this case???
I suggested the names by who's characteristic is more shown [evident] in the hybrid which seems to me the right way, but i night be completely wrong by doing it...???
-
Oron, that is a great photograph of a stunning Narcissus serotinus. Thank you for showing. :D
-
Oron
I had hoped to see N. tazetta on my recent trip to Turkey - no luck. Now you spoil me with not only abundant tazetta but abundant serotinus, a particular favourite that is always shy to flower for me. Then to top it all 2 distinct hybrids. :)
-
Oron - fabulous photos 8) 8) - such hybrid populations are just awesome!!
I think that whilst you are absolutely right that both species have acted as pollen plants and that the names can be written as you have done, it is perhaps more normal to include all of the hybrid swarm under a single name with the form Narcissus x "specific epithet". Sorry, I don't know what your crosses are formally called, but another illustrative wild example from Spain is: Narcissus x christopheri which includes both N pannizzianus x N assoanus and N assoanus x N pannizzianus.
I would be really interested to hear whether these are fertile.....
-
Magnificent pictures Oron :o
It's fascinating to see these plants in the wild.
-
Excellent pics, Oron. Excellent subjects, too!! 8) Thanks so much.
-
Stunning plants and pictures Oron !!! :o :o
What a wonderful sight !
-
Oron,
thanks for breathtaking pictures from the wild :o 8)
You set a highlight in a dull autuum morning here :D
-
Oron, thanks for the wonderful sight you have captured in the wild of Narcissus, absolutely beautiful adn I wis I could smell them from here :D
-
Superb pictures Oron! :o
I always thougt spring would be the best time to visit Israel - first doubts start to appear. ::) ;)
-
no comments Oron :o :o :o :o :o :o
I look like my bloodhound in front of a bone ;D
-
Nothing comparing Oron's pics, just two narcissus. second one received as var. orcholeucus, but I can't distinguish any character from the classic form.
-
Oron - fabulous photos 8) 8) - such hybrid populations are just awesome!!
I think that whilst you are absolutely right that both species have acted as pollen plants and that the names can be written as you have done, it is perhaps more normal to include all of the hybrid swarm under a single name with the form Narcissus x "specific epithet". Sorry, I don't know what your crosses are formally called, but another illustrative wild example from Spain is: Narcissus x christopheri which includes both N pannizzianus x N assoanus and N assoanus x N pannizzianus.
I would be really interested to hear whether these are fertile.....
Dave,
Thank you for your comment.
I tend to agree with you that all types of this hybrids should be grouped under one name.
Despite being a wild form, to my knowledge it was never described in literature, and therefor was never given a name, so far...
I grow this hybrid for the last 5 years and it never set seeds, but as conditions in my garden are quite different to the ones in its natural habitat i will go there to check it soon.
-
Superb pictures Oron! :o
I always thougt spring would be the best time to visit Israel - first doubts start to appear. ::) ;)
Thank you everyone for the nice comments :-[
Hans,
N. tazetta has two varieties in Israel: an autumn one flowering in November and another one that blooms in spring Febuary-April.
Just choose when it is convenient for you... I'm here... :)
-
As promised, pics of what I have as Narcissus 'Camoro' taken today.
-
Ah, "Camoro and Camoro and Camoro......... and indeed, 'Camoro'." :D
-
......at least they can't say 'Camoro' never comes! ::)
-
Beautiful photos everyone!
Hans,
Just choose when it is convenient for you... I'm here... :)
Me too ;)
-
......at least they can't say 'Camoro' never comes! ::)
Ah Camorra! "See Naples & die."
-
Hello hello, where have I heard that before Gerry?
-
Anthony , Lovely pic. they look so sweet.
Angie :)
-
Hans,
Just choose when it is convenient for you... I'm here... :)
Me too ;)
:-* thanks so much - I am sure we will meet us. :D
-
For a moment there, I thought Dom was showing a PINK N. viridiflorus.... on reply 1422 on page 95 ;D
-
Brian Duncan had this Narcissus on display at Termonfeckin.
Narcissus x alleniae.
-
Brian Duncan had this Narcissus on display at Termonfeckin.
Narcissus x alleniae.
Oh I do love this.
Angie :)
-
Ooooooooooo ;D
-
AAAAAHHHH! What a great flower, so nicely displayed. I'm hoplessly hooked, now.
-
Brian Duncan had this Narcissus on display at Termonfeckin.
Narcissus x alleniae.
Oh, dear goodness, be still my beating heart! :o
-
Wow! :o
-
That is VERY special. 8)
-
Wow! :o
-
... almost alien.... ;)
-
I suppose since this hybrid has been reclassified it can no longer be considered a natural hybrid as the parents aren't sympatric? It was originally described as N. serotinus × N. viridiflorus, but the original female parent was of eastern origin. As there are naturally occurring hybrids of N. serotinus and N. viridiflorus they must now be called something else? Brian's plant is stunning, and I'm sure it will be nurtured and given a well deserved clonal name?
-
They combine well, don't they. Very nice.
-
I suppose since this hybrid has been reclassified it can no longer be considered a natural hybrid as the parents aren't sympatric? It was originally described as N. serotinus × N. viridiflorus, but the original female parent was of eastern origin. As there are naturally occurring hybrids of N. serotinus and N. viridiflorus they must now be called something else? Brian's plant is stunning, and I'm sure it will be nurtured and given a well deserved clonal name?
Interesting observation - the same situation arises as between N.x perezlarae and N, x moronensis from N. cavanillesii x N. miniatus and N. serotinus respectively. It is difficult to tell with a wild hybrid which parent is male or female.
I have not seen the original publication of N.x alleniae or heard of the locus classicus but it is most likely that hybrids between N. viridiflorus and both N. serotinus and N. miniatus do exist. As far as I lnow both N. viridiflorus and N. serotinus grow together in Morocco and I'm sure they do hybridise.
The controversy about N. miniatus may still have some mileage - it is suggested that it was described a couple of hundred years ago as N. x obsoletus and more recently it has been suggested it should be called N. deficiens. Please refer to the RHS DAffodils Snowdrops and Tulips Year Book that was recently mentioned.
-
Excellent shot Michael.
First as usual for me is Cedric Morris
-
I have not seen the original publication of N.x alleniae or heard of the locus classicus but it is most likely that hybrids between N. viridiflorus and both N. serotinus and N. miniatus do exist. As far as I lnow both N. viridiflorus and N. serotinus grow together in Morocco and I'm sure they do hybridise.
Narcissus x alleniae was described by Derrick Donnison-Morgan in the 'New Plantsman 7(1)41-42 in 2000. The hybrid was found at a roadside between Medina Sidonia and Chiclana de la Frontera, Cadiz Province. The parents were called N. serotinus and N. viridiflorus - in the RHS Daffodil yearbook 2005-2006 it was corrected that the serotinus parent was in fact miniatus. N. serotinus s.str. does not exist at the site mentioned.
Sadly, due to the construction of a new road in 2006 the locus classicus of alleniae was more or less destroyed together with 80 % of a population of Nn. cavanillesii, x perezlarae, miniatus and viridiflorus.
Gerd
-
Gerd,
this makes sense, as both viridiflorus and miniatus are tetraploids, while serotinus is a diploid.
What a shame that the populations were destroyed. Nuf said!
As to which parent was the pollen or pod, I don't see what a difference this would make to the hybrid name, but two different parent, despite similarities, create a different hybrid, clearly. I would think that N. x alleniae would still be the correct name, as it was given to the plant, not to the parentage. Now that the parentage is clear, this can be corrected. Do we even know if a hybrid between serotinus and viridiflorus would be realistic. If the plants are not sympatric, at least not in the wild. As a triploid, the off-spring may well be infertile and thus cannot establish themselves as a new, reproducing taxon. In any case, if described, it would require a new name.
Apparently, according to Zonnefeld, N. miniatus is an ancient hybrid between N. serotinus and N. elegans, which has become an allotetraploid and can thus sexually reproduce.
-
So Narcissus miniatus and N. serotinus are both found together in Spain?
-
Iteresting!
Anthony, all plants mentioned grows in Spain. N.deficiens (or N. miniatus) grows in Mediterranan countries and N. serotinus is more atlantic plant growing in North Moroco and South Spain (Algarve and Extremadura). There is also N. elegans (now we call it N. obsoletus) in Malaga and Baleares.
Gerd knows very well the problem of inhabit destruction in Cadiz, and many localities are now between houses. In Spain it grows at least in Cadiz, but I am sure it also there are few in Sevilla and Malaga.
Precisely I am in Cadiz border Malaga trying to find any population in a UTM in Malaga province.
-
First as usual for me is Cedric Morris
Cedric looks very good Mark !
First sign of Spring ....?.. with Winter still to come.. :-\
-
Hopefully not a bad winter this year, Luc
-
currently in flower, Narcissus cantabricus
-
This group of N. papyraceus and subsp. (now species) are not very clar for me...
This is Narcissus papyraceus subsp. polyanthos
-
Narcissus papyraceus subsp. papyraceus is also starting to bloom
-
Maybe I could teach in Spain?
-
This group of N. papyraceus and subsp. (now species) are not very clar for me...
This is Narcissus papyraceus subsp. polyanthos
Rafa Wonderful plant -a true pristine beauty :o
-
Not many things blooming here now, so I was surprised when three Narcissus romieuxii mesatlanticus sported buds early November. We have had a mild first half of November, and relatively dry for here. Just over a week ago the first flower opened a beautiful creamy white from quite yellow buds (picture 1). It grew whiter by the day, and the stamens longer. Within a week it was joined by the other two, - and three Atlantic lows! I see there has been some discussion on hardiness of this species. Our zone 8 garden will not tax them unduly in that respect, but they certainly are tough. In the twelve or so days since the first one opened we have have had about 150 mm (6 inches) of rain, gale force winds and hail. They objected to the hail (picture 2), but are still standing tall four days after the hail shower.
My plants came from the SRGC, as bulblets from the Bulb Group at the Glasgow Discussion weekend 2007. What wonderful memories they brought back.
-
Greetings, Knud! How good it is to see you posting here. It is too long since you visited us... .you must come over again soon!
What a delight these narcissus are as the year gets colder and darker.
-
Thank you, Maggi, for friendly greetings. Now that the first post is down, more will come. I hope to make it over to next years Discussion weekend. Another first bloomer in our garden this year also originated at a discussion weekend, 2003 in Elgin. Not a narcissus, but still exciting, a now football-sized Daphne retusa (or should that be D. tangutica Retusa Group?).
-
Welcome to the Forum Knud. I wonder are you Forum member No. 1001? :D
Anthony I too was going to use the word "pristine" to describe Rafa's Narcissus flowers. Made me think of the "Coronet Among the Weeds." But it is the weeds (absolute jewels every one) which are flowering among the man-made weeds, don't you think. Sorry, that's a terribly mixed metaphor but you know what I mean, I'm sure.
-
Ah, Lesley, Knud has been registered as a Forumist for some time, but was playing hard to get! ;D
-
Also in Belgium the romieuxii's start to flower Knud.November for me looks a bit like early spring...
Two weeks ago we went to Cyprus.When we get out the bus at our hotel allready some papyraceus wait for us in the garden of the hotel.Later on we find a lot of serotinus in the wild on several occassions.Back home the romieuxii allready starts to flower.So november was good for daffodils.
The pictures start with papyraceus en go further with serotinus and romieuxii
Kris
-
Rafa,
The pics of them flowering in the holes in the cliff are amazing. :o
-
Page 100 of Narcissus 2009 :o :o
Well done everyone !!
Rafa - your pix from the wild are stunning ! So it's not only N. cantabricus that can be pristine white then.. ;D
Knud,
Welcome into the open of the forum !!!
Worrying for climate change though if even Norway has Narcissus in late November... :o :-\ ;)
Kris,
Lovely Narcissus - I have N. cantabricus foliosus florwering at the moment, but that's about it... many others in bud though !! ;)
-
Rafa
So nice white perfumed Narcissus in the wild !!! What is the difference between papyraceus and polyanthos ? Thanks
Dom
-
basicly is the number of flowers, arround 13 flowers in the plants I pictured. I will try to collect seeds in few months.
-
The rest of the Narcissus I am growing as N.cantabricus are flowering now. I would be interested to hear if this is the correct name for them. According to my records some are seedlings from the original bulbs I purchased.
-
Simon, from what I can see in the picture they would appear to be Narcissus cantabricus foliosus.
Indicators are - short pedicel and many leaves.
They are lovely.
-
Really attractive Simon. I agree with Ian regarding identity which is easy to confirm since N. cantabricus foliosus is the only form of N. cantabricus which has a pedicel.
-
Thank you both. Label pending correction ;)
-
Simon, wonderful flowers. My N. cantabricus don't even show buds! I still haven't got the hang of them.
Good to know the difference in the subspecies foliosus. Thanks, Ian, Gerry.
-
They are not normally this early here- the last few years I have had to content myself with looking at them through a hole in the snow on top of the cover over the bed they are in and this is usually around Christmas/ New Year time.
-
They are not normally this early here- the last few years I have had to content myself with looking at them through a hole in the snow on top of the cover over the bed they are in and this is usually around Christmas/ New Year time.
Simon,
Only cover and snow or additional soil heating cable?
My Narcissus cantabricus disappeared after I left them outside in winter (without cover however).
Gerd
-
The other major feature of Narcissus cantabricus foliosus is that it flowers this early.
Our other forms of Narcissus cantabricus are not even showing yet and most do not normally flower until February or March.
On the issue of hardiness of this group of Narcissus - it is my experience in our garden that the top growth recovers unaffected after freeing conditions but if the ground around the bulb freezes for any length of time the bulb dies. This is also the case for the Narcissus bulbs in the bulb house and is the main reason that I have a warming cable to protect against prolonged freezing of the plunge and compost.
-
Gerd, there is no such thing as soil heating cable here and the beds are too far from the house. ;)
They are covered with plastic in summer and winter and have so far had snow insulation for the coldest parts of winter. I haven't had these ones out in the main garden yet as I am bulking their numbers back up. I intend to put some bulbs out next summer to see what happens here, for example when they will flower if we have early and long snows.
-
Just in flower over the last couple of days Narcissus 'Cedric Morris, an old favourite I have grown for many years, always in flower before christmas and one I always look forward to. A little tall this year due to lack of light with all the rain I guess.
-
After N. cantabricus foliosus out now, N. Taffeta and albidus zaianicus (for the last one, thank at the father who sent it me !!!)
-
Very nice plants & photos Do. I'm trying to get some decent pics of my own narcissus at the moment. I find it quite difficult with a digital camera on auto.
-
Very nice indeed Dom.
-
This Narcissus is flowering just now. It is labelled as 'Taffeta', but I see that this should be white. The pictures show a plant in the frame and one that reappeared in the garden. They both opened on the same day and I assume they are the same plant. The one outside appears, yellower but I am not sure if this is because it has been frosted several times ???
Any help gratefully received.
-
Thanks to all for showing your narcissus. I am just 'lurking' at present, no time to take photos, but will hope to contribute more later. Meanwhile I am enjoying everyone else's!
-
This Narcissus is flowering just now. It is labelled as 'Taffeta', but I see that this should be white. The pictures show a plant in the frame and one that reappeared in the garden. They both opened on the same day and I assume they are the same plant. The one outside appears, yellower but I am not sure if this is because it has been frosted several times ???
Any help gratefully received.
Give it a couple of days Simon. I have never grown 'Taffeta' but my experience of other hoop-petticoats is that, while they may open yellow, they often fade to white after 48 hrs or so.
-
Simon
I find that our two Taffeta seem different by the corona, yours more opened and crenalate than mine. Are you ok ? Rafa, Ian or Maggi could perhaps give they idea about them
Dom
-
Thanks, Gerry. In a few days time everything will be white here!
Dom, it was seeing your pic that first made me question mine. Then I looked at other pics on the net and they are the same as yours. It may be I have mine labelled incorrectly.
-
Simon I find yours looks better my albidus zaianicus than my Taffeta.
-
Thanks, Dom.
-
Narcissus romieuxii ‘Treble Chance’
A selection from JCA 805 made by Bob Potterton in the mid-1970s. The coronas are approx. 40mm in diam.
First phot straight from camera,
second photo with some tweaking on Gamma,( Brightness and Contrast) settings
-
Very attractive Gerry, showing nicely how the corona matures and eventually reflexes at the margin 8)
-
A very handsome pot Gerry !!
-
Thanks Ashley & Luc. And thanks to Maggi for the tweaking - a bit closer to the colour in life.
-
Have you had any seed from them, Gerry? I have a few batches of seedlings coming on from 'Treble Chance' and wondered if they will look like the parent.
-
No Simon. Although I've had these plants for some time these are the first flowers. Previously they were kept in an open frame & I didn't keep an eye on them so the flowers were eaten.
-
My first of the many winterbloomers to come.
Said to be a natural hybrid between N. bulbocodium ssp genuinus and
N. albidus ssp albidus (SF102)
-
Luc, very nice hybrid indeed. Thank you
Dom
-
Bravo Mr. S. - a very nice potful !! ;)
-
Very nice indeed Luc.
-
A really nice potfull LucS.
-
Simon
I find that our two Taffeta seem different by the corona, yours more opened and crenalate than mine. Are you ok ? Rafa, Ian or Maggi could perhaps give they idea about them
Dom
Domi, I don't know vey much about Tafetta... all this group of N. catabricus realtives are very difficoult to me....
At least N. cantabricus in Spain contains two species: N cancabricus DC and Narcissus albicans (Howorth) Sprengel.
Many collections labeled as Narcissus cantabricus are in fact N. albicans, and this is why many of yours mentioned that your N. cantabricus is not pure white: this is because you probabily grow N. albicans.
N. cantabricus is pure white always, and N. albicans is very variable also with pale yellow forms.
-
Noses of Narcissus 'February Gold' are now showing in my garden.
-
Rafa, do you mean that N cantabricus opens pure white also - that is it does not open yellow and turn white?
-
N. cantabricus, when open is cream-greenish but when is completely open is pure white, with the beggining of perianth tube greenish. But there is also another species, that maintain this cream color until completely open (or not), N. albicans. It is also described as an hybrid between N. cantabricus and N. bulbocodium (N. neocarpetanus var. romanensis) precisely because it could have yellow pale colour that could be similar than this hybrid N. x carpetanus.
The problem is that many collections in Spain were labeled as N. cantabricus because is very similar except this fundamental character in colour rage and also because N. cantabricus bulbs are little and monophyllus comparing N. albicans bigger and polyphyllus. So possibily there are many introductions in gardens of both species with the same name.
-
Rafa - the nomenclature of these plants gets more & more confusing. In his monograph John Blanchard states that N. albicans Sprengel is a synonym of N. cantabricus DC. ssp. monophyllus (Durieu) Fernandes. This seems to be the opposite of what you are saying?
-
Yes it is also confusing to me, Narcissus genus is a name dancing since the first descriptions, it is really complex. I haven't Blanchard's monograph but I think Narcissus is in constant taxonomic evolution so maybe many new descriptions or modifications will not in his book.
Other example could be Narcissus serotinus, that contained at least N. serotinus and N. miniatus (or N. deficiens).
This case of N. albicans is the same It has been described many times with different names. Some authors has considered N. albicans as a species, other authors, considered that it was N. cantabricus var. luteolentus, N.x barrae, N. litigiosus var. granatensis, N. x magni-antonii, N. x neocarpetanus var. romanensis... and a long etc.
Personally I support N. albicans, and N. cantabricus because explain some incoherence in Iberian populations specially in color, which is the first character that you can see . Now it is important to revised all N. cantabricus locations to know if it is N. albicans or N. cantabricus.
The collection I donated this year, Narcissus cantabricus 09-001, could be N. albicans, because It is not far from type locality of N. neocarpetanus var. romanensis (N. albicans).
-
The Kew Checklist has Narcissus albicans as a synonym of N. cantabricus ssp monophyllus.
-
Here are a few Narcissus photographed in Morocco in late October early November...
-
Thank you, Kees!!
-
Here is another papyraceus picture. Photgraphed in coastal dunes N of Rabbat. By the way, can anyone tell me if the the cultivated paperwhite narcissus are selections of this species, or of hybrid origin?
-
Here are a few Narcissus photographed in Morocco in late October early November...
Kees Jan, Thank you so much!
Must have been a wonderful trip!
Because this species became very rare on the other side - is Narcissus viridiflorus growing frequently near Tangiers?
Gerd
-
Some Narcissus taken in the bulb house on December 12th.
First is a pot of Camoro, the other is unknown - suggestions please
-
First is a pot of Camoro, the other is unknown - suggestions please
Art, your unknown Narcissus would appear to have a flange to the corona and I would say it is very similar to the one I show in this weeks Bulb Log as Narcissus albidus.
Or to give it its full name Narcissus romieuxii ssp. albidus var zaianicus.
-
Ian
Thanks for the identification - now better understand what you meant by a flange :)
-
Like a trifle I think, but without the sherry, Arthur. ;)
-
very nice pictures Kees, thank you!
-
Gerd,
I would say N. viridiflorus is quite threatened in Morocco, because it is restricted to lowland situations that are under threat from Urban development. I believe it mainly grows on the Tanger Peninsula). We only found it on three locations, all near or under threat of urban development. I think this is also true for cavanillesii. N. elegans is more common (and has a much wider distribution).
-
Narcissus romieuxii var. zaianicus ‘Selected Form’
This is the name under which this plant was received from Rannveig Wallis.
I presume it is what John Blanchard & Jim Archibald call N. romieuxii subsp. albidus var. zaianicus. but both Blanchard & Archibald suggest that this name has little botanical significance. Perhaps it should be regarded as yet another form of the infinitely variable N. romieuxii - to my eyes the only distinguishing feature is the green spathe.
Not a particularly exciting plant.
-
Gerd,
I would say N. viridiflorus is quite threatened in Morocco, because it is restricted to lowland situations that are under threat from Urban development. I believe it mainly grows on the Tanger Peninsula). We only found it on three locations, all near or under threat of urban development. I think this is also true for cavanillesii. N. elegans is more common (and has a much wider distribution).
Kees Jan,
Thank you - unfortunately the same situation as in Southern Spain. It seems we only were able to come upon the remainders of a former extensive distribution.
Gerd
-
Here a plot of land earmarked for development a few years ago had over 1000 cowslip clumps removed and relocated. The land is still undeveloped, and to my mind looks less and less suitable for cowslips as each year passes, being covered in larger herbaceous plants such as rosebay willowherb. Developers now (may?) have to have extensive ecological studies to see what is there and employ environmental scientists to see how to minimise the damage caused. Window dressing, perhaps, especially when you see a housing estate being built on a greenfield site, cynically named "Royal Meadows" (Cambusbarron, near Stirling). Well it may have been, but it ain't now! >:(
-
It is a shame... at least, in Spain most of Narcissi have any level of legal protection, although they infringe it all the time, specially local authorities precisely to help developers. I collected seeds of N. viridiflorus recently in Cadiz and I was shocked by Novo Sancti Petri, a good example of "The Age of Non Sense". But I think Malaga coast is the Queen of non sense, a really nightmare for nature lovers.
I hope this all this development don't affect much to N. tingitanus, an species that I never seen.
-
This is the plant that we call Narcissus albicans. As you can see it staring to bloom pale yellow and finish with white/cream colour. It smells very similar to N. cantabricus.
And Merry Christmans!
Note:
Some other interesting aspects of this species is that it could be the early bloomer in the wild, in Spain (from Bulbocodium section) before N. cantabricus and N. hedraeanthus). Also its ecology is different, it prefers sunny places in rocky granit fisures.
Concerning hybrids, N. x litigiosus (old N. x susannae) correspond to the hybrid between N. albicans and N. concoclor (N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus). So the cross between N. cantabricus and N. conclor = N.x matritensis.
-
I received this as zaianicus albus.
-
At last! Time for a potter in the greenhouses with a camera! It is, of course, mostly white hoop petticoats in flower just now. The latest one to open is N. albidus SF110, which is very prolific with seeds. A pot of seedlings from it self-pollinated is opening its first flowers, and also a hybrid between it and Narcissus bulbocodium praecox 'Moulay Brahim', which is a later flowering lovely solid yellow.
-
Two nice yellows: Narcissus 'December Gold' and a self-sown N. romieuxii which has a nice frilly edge.
-
Lovely plants Anne. Does 'December Gold' retain its colour?
-
Yes, but during this very cold weather the colour has become a little blotchy. It is a good strong yellow.
-
I like Narcissus 'December Gold' Anne, will it in be in the next List??
-
In a couple of years when the babies are flowering size.
-
Very nice selection Anne !!
Thanks for brightening up these gloomy (weatherwise) days ! :D
-
Two nice yellows: Narcissus 'December Gold' and a self-sown N. romieuxii which has a nice frilly edge.
I might be asking for one back Anne - mine have been reveaged by the 'fly'. No sign of flowers yet this year in the remaining bulbs :(
-
That's worrying Tony. I had the impression - obviously wrong - that the narrow leaved bulbocodiums were not attacked by the fly. Bad luck.
-
In my experience the fly will attack any small narcissus bulbs. Perversely (it must just be bad luck) I have lost some of the rarest/nicest ones ....
I am hoping that I have the problem under control now after netting the frame early last spring. Seems they are coming in from outside, netting can only work if there are no new hatchings inside the netting.
-
I'll be happy to restock you if you need them along with anything else, Tony, that's the beauty of swapping! It's a really nice variety.
-
A pot of Narcissus bulbocodium coll 96/198 Brian Duncan Morocco.
These are a little past their best as they have been in bloom for two weeks but I didn't get a chance to take a pic.
Still bitterly cold in the greenhouse, 2°C with a strong easterly wind, all louvers and doors open.
-
A few more,sorry about the quality,I am blaming it on the weather.
1 Narcissus romieuxii.
2-6 Narcissus measaltanticus hybs.
-
Cheers Michael!
very nice Narcissus. Especial the flower of N. romieuxii warms my heart at this time of the year. I like the primula yellow color.
-
I agree, Armin.... isn't it wonderful the way these wee flowers can stay so lovely for so long at this time of year? A real treat to see them.... when you are finally able to break your way out to the glasshouse!
-
Or into it when the door track is frozen solid! Nice 'hoops', Michael.
-
Michael,
Very nice pics. I love that first strong gold one you posted by itself. Great shape and colour to it. 8)