Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Alessandro.marinello on March 09, 2009, 11:10:26 PM
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Ipheion peduncularis rudolf fiedler and I. uniflorum
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Is this the correct name for 'Rolf Fiedler?' I have it as Ipheion peregrinans 'R F'
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Is this the correct name for 'Rolf Fiedler?' I have it as Ipheion peregrinans 'R F'
you have reason, Ipheion see Nothoscordum dialystemon, how much says (PBS )
Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler' This is an unnamed species, but is not considered to be Ipheion uniflorum. It has bright blue flowers. This is another plant in this complex that is controversial. Some feel Rolf Fiedler is really Tristagma peregrinans P.Ravenna but this plant has not been verified by anyone except for the person who named it.
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Alessandro your Ipheion unifolium has a clear white flower :o. The type I have is with a light blue touch? Is it possible that I have a cultivar?
Sorry no pictures available at present. I think at the end of March I. unifolium will bloom here.
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Alessandro your Ipheion unifolium has a clear white flower :o. The type I have is with a light blue touch? Is it possible that I have a cultivar?
Sorry no pictures available at present. I think at the end of March I. unifolium will bloom here.
Onion
the form white exists, but rare
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The pale blue form is usually listed as 'Wisley Blue.' The so called white which we have here in NZ is not quite white, but closer than the very pale blue. However, the best and whitest is 'Alberto Castillo' which has a large flower with long pointed petals and is a solid, even colour, very white.
My reference for I. peregrinans 'Rolf Feidler' was from the AGS Bulletin, in an article by Tony Hall at the RBG, Kew.
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........ and thanks to the Taxonomists they are Tristagmas now.
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they are convinced that the genus Ipheion us reservoirs other surprise in future
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However, the best and whitest is 'Alberto Castillo' which has a large flower with long pointed petals and is a solid, even colour, very white.
These were taken last August of Ipheion uniflorum grown from seed of "Alberto Castillo"
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I seem to remember that Paul T and I had a discussion about this variety on the Southern Hemisphere thread back then.
cheers
fermi
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It looks pretty true Fermi. I have some unflowered (6month) seedlings of AC, just to see what happens. My RF has not set seed.
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Dear Lesley:
This is what we have been advicing against. Being a rapidly offsetting plant, growing it from seed will bring forth inferior forms. This has happened in countless occasions and led to the disappearance of outstanding cultivars, replaced by variations from seed.
Alberto Castillo
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Oh. I just planned to see if there was something different, but I'll take your warning, and dispose of them now. So I take it that the named forms we currently have, such as 'Alberto Castillo' and 'Charlotte Bishop' are sports? or maybe forms from the wild, not seedlings of the original?
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Oh. I just planned to see if there was something different, but I'll take your warning, and dispose of them now. So I take it that the named forms we currently have, such as 'Alberto Castillo' and 'Charlotte Bishop' are sports? or maybe forms from the wild, not seedlings of the original?
Disposing of them may be a bit drastic - just labelling them properly, i.e. as "ex Alberto Castillo" unless someone misconstrues that to mean that Alberto sent them to you! Paul's form of Ipheion "Alberto Castillo" are different enough from mine to convince me to re-label mine as "ex AC".
Alberto,
are you able to tell us about this ipheion which has been named for you?
cheers
fermi
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I'm always very careful about such labelling Fermi. I have these as
Ipheion uniflorum
seed from I. u. 'Alberto Castillo'
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Hello,
It is strange that IPHEION cultivars lead to to such confusion due to incorrect plant labelling ( or sometimes no label at all ). Last year I've purchased a "white form". No more explanations. I think it's probably " Alberto Castillo" which cultivar is sometimes depicted with light blue flowers. I have a description of 4 species from a french nursery:
I pelegrinans "Rolf Fiedler":Blue rounded petals
I uniflorum "Alberto Castillo": pure white with large glaucous leaves
I uniflorum "Charlotte Bishop": dark rose
I uniflorum "Froyle Mill": purple-violet pointed petals with white center
I've bought "Alberto Castillo" and "Charlotte Bishop" but they didn't match the description.
I'll put a photo of some of my plants if someone can re-identify them...
Regards
Jean-Patrick
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Jean-Patrick,
My 'Alberto Castillo' is most definitely white, with good strong substance to it. The best white I have by far. The 'Charlotte Bishop' I find is DRASTICALLY affected by heat and time of season. The first flower I ever had on CB was disappointing to say the least, basically a washed out whitish colour with pinkish tips, but as spring warmed up the flowers became pinker and pink until they were a bright rose-pink. Some of the flowers were almost electric. When I saw the first flowers I couldn't believe it had ever been called "pink" but by the time it was properly underway in the warmer weather it was most definitely VERY pink.
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Here's a pic of my "white" ipheion. I bet it's "Alberto Castillo" ( in fact it seems to match the botanical description.
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Yes, that's Alberto all right. A good clean white with large flowers. Very vigorous but worth some space. My 'Charlotte Bishop' (from a friend), turned out to be 'Rolf Feidler' but my 'Rolf Feidler' (from a nursery), turned out to be 'Froyle Mill.' ???
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Do you have a picture of 'Charlotte Bishop' Paul? And is Charlotte the daughter of Joy? (Maggi?)
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Not sure who Ipheion 'Charlotte Bishop' is named for, Lesley, but here is a photo of her ( the Ipheion!) taken by Luit from the Connoiseur's Collection Thread
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That's very pretty. If not PURE pink, at least pink compared with the others.
Maggi, how do you do that link thing. Darned if I can do it. Can't get the bit to copy, selected, to start with.
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Maggi, how do you do that link thing. Darned if I can do it. Can't get the bit to copy, selected, to start with.
Well, I go to the link box ( probably not its "proper" name) at the top of the page: usually a left click on it will highlight the wording of the link then I right click to select copythen another right click to allow paste If the initial left click does not highlight the url thingy, then I left click at the right hand side of the text and drag the cursor to the left, thus highlighting the link.... then proceed as before. In the old forum the link only takes you to a page, which is why I like to add the time and date of the post to make it easier to find. In the new forum each post has a link so it is easy to just do the select/highlight/copy trick with the title piece to any post. Hope that helps!
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Lesley,
It can be a lot stronger pink than that too, depending on the heat. I have had flowers that were almost flourescent. It also has interesting curliness to the leaves, which I hadn't noted until yesterday at a friend's place. Everyone I have given CB to have had it do much better for them than me. I'm going to put some of mine into the ground and see how it goes. Given the curly leaves I obviously have a seedling coming up in my plant table (literally, there is a seedling that has grown between the frame and the metal tray they sit in.... I must extricate it one of these years and give it some space. I don't know HOW it fits a bulb in that narrow crack) as this seedling has curly leaves. I'd noted the strange leaves, but never noticed that CB has the same leaves. Will be interesting to see what the flowers are on that seedling if they come from her. Who knows! :-\
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I know of three distinct white Ipheions:
1. 'Alberto Castillo' which, though a clone, comes quite true from seed. (Or so I gather - my pot of seedlings shows no variation)
2. 'White Star', a commercial clone you buy in mesh bags like other dried bulbs.
3. An unnamed white form that has been in the front garden of a house near me for at least as long as I've lived at this address, nearly 21 years now.
I have found the last of these impossible to grow in my own garden. I think it dislikes my soggy soil in winter, whereas the neighbor's place gives it much better drainage, plus more sun.
'Alberto Castillo' and 'White Star' are not identical. The line of color on the reverse of the petals differs between the two, and the flower forms are slightly different - though not in a way I can describe in words without having them in front of me.
The real question is whether anyone is growing the usual form of Ipheion uniflora any longer. It is (was?) a very pale milky blue, but seems to have been ousted by 'Wisley Blue'.
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........................The real question is whether anyone is growing the usual form of Ipheion uniflora any longer. It is (was?) a very pale milky blue, but seems to have been ousted by 'Wisley Blue'.
Well, I think I am! Picture below that I first posted in 2008 and the general opinion was that it was Ipheion uniflorum. There was further discussion in July 2008 on Ipheion uniflorum nomenclature (see Diane Clement's post in reply 317 of 3rd July 2008 in Flowers and Foliage June 2008) as it now seems to be Tristagma uniflorum!!
I did have 'Alberto Costello','Froyle Mill' and 'Charlotte Bishop' in pots, kept outside and lost the lot last growing season.
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The old, original near white is often seen here in what one might call non-gardener gardens.
If there's another similar to AC, I'd better withdraw my comment above that " Yes, that's Alberto all right." Maybe it's the other one Rodger mentions. I don't know that one.
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Rodger,
Are you meaning the old wild blue that seeds and becomes weedy? I have that in my garden in lots of places. I still like it though. I certainly don't have "Wisley Blue" that I know of. How long has WB been around? My blue I've had for probably 30 year as I think I brought the originals from our old home farm.
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Paul if your old one is blue rather than white, it probably IS 'Wisley Blue,' a very pale blue but bluer than the original white which is a sort of milky white. WB has been around for many, many years and yes, it seeds around and is very weedy in the wrong place but then, they all are.
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Are you meaning the old wild blue that seeds and becomes weedy? I have that in my garden in lots of places. I still like it though. I certainly don't have "Wisley Blue" that I know of. How long has WB been around? My blue I've had for probably 30 year as I think I brought the originals from our old home farm.
The "wild form" of Ipheion uniflora is an extremely pale blue-tinged white. Not white, but not really blue either. Wisley Blue is definitely blue, a slightly impure (i.e. not spectrum pure) pale sky blue.
WB has been in commerce for a very long time.
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Ipheion Alberto Castillo - 2 shots and x Alberto Castillo from o.p. seed. The latter promises to be somewhat smaller but the dark stripes may be on both outers and inners, we'll see in a day or two. The base also appears to be darker throughout. Best we keep these far apart.
johnw
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Amazingly Ipheion 'Alberto Castillo' has come through this winter with 3/4 of the leaves intact. This despite a rather cold and mostly snowless winter.
johnw
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Which was the lowest temperature, John? People has reported it being hardy to -24 C.
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Which was the lowest temperature, John? People has reported it being hardy to -24 C.
Alberto - The lowest was -15.5c here but the ground was snowless for a few weeks beforehand so that it was frozen down 25cm or more. Quite a few nights around -12c and relentless cold but we've had worse. Then snow came and kept the ground solidly frozen until late March. Granted the soil temperature was not as low as it can get in vicious winters nevertheless promising. If the soil had been dry as well the outcome might have been different, that's when the soil temperature really plunges as in 1990/91.
johnw
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Thanks, John, interesting info.
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An "unexpected" association between 'Alberto Castillo' and Muscari botryoides 'Album'. Mother Nature is a great garden designer:whites can look miserable one close to the other, but not with these two! ;D
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I could tell little difference between the true 'Alberto Castillo' and 'Alberto Castillo' from open-pollinated seed - earlier post. Repotting them today I had quite the surprise. Both pots of bulbs were equally bone-dry and the bulbs of comparable size. However 'Alberto Catillo' o.p. was rootless and the true AC had a potful of active live roots despite conditions.
johnw
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Hy, I just came through this thread. I have some pics I would like to share.
The First one is a blue Ipheion pictured in the wild in Uruguay. July 2011.
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Another from Uruguay.
Yellow.
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Rolf Fiedler
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A white one from coastal Uruguay.
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A light blue one, from Mercedes, Buenos Aires.
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Some White ones from Miramar, Provincia de Buenos Aires.
They were generally white, few individuals a very light blue, and few have a pink or purple shadow at the tips of the petals, specially when the flower age.
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A pair more from the light blue ones.
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Santo,
These are nice and interesting plants. Are you able to name them -
especially the yellow one from Uruguay?
Gerd
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Hi Santo,
The blue ipheion is very nice.
( looks like Rolf Fiedler ).
Are you sure the yellow ones are really ipheion? The flower structure is quite different with protruding anthers and there are more than 6 "petals"...
J-P
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Well, reading a little I can tell it is not an easy task to tell the name!
May be a more trained eye help be needed.
First they are all called Ipheion, Nothoscordum or Tristagma.
Second: It can be Ipheion Sellovianum(but in the PBS it says it should have 6 petals, despite there is a pic with 8).
Or Ipheion Hirtellum(but there in the PBS says it blooms April to June in the wild, and it was blooming in August).
Any help will be welcome!
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The blue one IS 'Rolf Fiedler'. We have tried to keep the location secret over the years as it is so rare and local in the wild.
The yellow one is Nothoscordum dialystemon.
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Thank you both for identification!
Gerd