Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Alpines => Topic started by: Alex on January 25, 2009, 10:35:24 PM
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I wonder if anyone can help with the following...
I am about to erect a new alpine/bulb house, and I am considering one that is offered with internal shading. Obviously this will shade fine - but will it have any effect on heating by the sun? I have previously only used external shading, which I know is better for this, but is the internal stuff any use at all?
Thanks!
Alex
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Hi Alex
I have rigged my shade netting both inside and outside over the years (nothing sophisticated - just shade netting pegged on with clothes pegs.) It does help inside but its much better outside where it reduces the heating effect more as well as giving shade/preventing scorch.
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pegged on with clothes pegs
The gardeners friend, Tony, where would we be without them? We use far more in the garden than anywhere else!
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Good for holding grafts together too!
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Definitely in the garden but also in the kitchen. I use them to hold in place the wrapped top of a cereal packet and others. Jolly efficient and keeps things absolutely airtight if they're folded over 2 or 3 times.
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They are also excellent keeping frozen peas in place after opening packet.
I have to say I am really pleased I don't seem to be the only person that keeps pegs in my gadget kitchen drawer. :D
We make our own bread and after it cools down and gets bagged, a peg is just right for keeping the bag sealed.
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Schhhh thats enough about pegs. If we don't watch out they'll get a thread of their own :o
AND we have not really answered the original question either :-[
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Well, in Aberdeen we never USE greenhouse shading.
Alex is in Oxford, so he might well find I it useful... you're nearer Alex, Tony..... what is the suggestion YOU are going to hang on the peg? ::)?
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And I was so excited when I logged on to see fully 8 replies in my thread...(!) Thanks to Tony for thoughts on shading anyway. Any more?
Alex
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Our only shading is an ash tree to the south east of the greenhouse ???.
Acually it works quite well. The ash is one of the last trees to come into leaf so the greenhouse gets full sun in the early spring when the plants need it then dappled shade in the heat? of the summer.
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Alex being a bit more posh than Tony we use old net curtains on the outside, fixed with 'shhh you know whats' they are great for shade and reduce the temperature somewhat. They are handy for stretching across frames as well.
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Just thought I'd add a "no pegs" reply. I rigged up system of outside shading (proper garden centre green plastic shading) which is held away from the glass by about 10cms on wires stretched the length of the greenhouse on the sunny, west side (my greenhouse runs north-south, and the house is to the east). The original reason for outside shading was that all my reading indicated that this would be cooler. I think that raising it well away from the glass helps with the coolling also.
Having had the greenhouse for about ten years, I can't imagine how I could cope with full inside shading anyway, too much potential for damage to the plants when taking it down for the winter. I have, however, draped extra shading last summer over an internal frame over a plunge containing japanese hepaticas. For a small area it's fine, but I wouldn't use it for my main shading.
Peter
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I hope I can describe as foreigner what I want to describe.
Internal shading has not the same effect on heating than the external shading. The ultraviolet light go through the glass an heat the air in the house. With the external shading you broke the light before it went to the glass.
Will you erect a bulb house or an alpine house? Many bulbs from arid areas need a summer dormancy. So the "positiv" effect of the internal shading is positiv for you.
When you cultivate alpines in the house it is import because of the cooler conditions, that you have enough glass-surface to ventilate in summer. Danger in this moment is that the temperature inside get higher than outside. In Germany described with the word "Glashouseffect".
My English dictionary is my best fried ;D ;D ;D
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Thank you Uli, that is helpful and the English is good and easy to understand.
As advised by you and others, and also based on my previous experience, I have gone for outside shading.
Cheers,
Alex
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Thanks Alex for asking this question as Iv learned something new which doesnt happen every day! Im now going to redo my shading so that its outside. I had to buy more pegs recently as Id used too many on my glasshouse and there were not enough left for nappies. Funny how my priorities have changed.
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Interesting to note that in the new volume of The Rock Garden Cyril Lafong, one of the finest growers in the Club, has written an extremely good article 'Growing in an Alpine House in which he indicates that after trying various kinds of shading he now relies on 'Coolglass'
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As a note to that, I'd add that Cyril gardens in Glenrothes, in the east of central Scotland ....Zone 8? Does he mention this in the article?
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Yes he did. Read it today. ;D
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Mine has not arrived :(
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Re: Journal
Neither has mine.
Alan
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Journal: we've just got ours .......hope it'll arrive with you folks soon.
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...........the sun shines on the righteous ;D
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...........the sun shines on the righteous ;D
And no snow :o :o :o
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Not yet Arthur, just a very few flakes on the wind but just noticed that our barometer is dropping like a stone so may get a bit this evening.
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New journal arrived this morning and brightened up the day. In my opinion the pictures and articles are
simply gorgeous! Many thanks to the authors and editors.
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...........the sun shines on the righteous ;D
Fortunately, it shines on the rest of us too - when it's not snowing. :D
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No post today - surprising as our postman delivers wearing shorts for most of the winter.
Hope my copy comes tomorrow - I want to book places on the Discussion Weekend
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Well, in Aberdeen we never USE greenhouse shading.
Alex is in Oxford, so he might well find I it useful... you're nearer Alex, Tony..... what is the suggestion YOU are going to hang on the peg? ::)?
My alpine house is currently using natural external shading :D
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Well, in Aberdeen we never USE greenhouse shading.
Alex is in Oxford, so he might well find I it useful... you're nearer Alex, Tony..... what is the suggestion YOU are going to hang on the peg? ::)?
OOOOOPPPSSS
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No post today - surprising as our postman delivers wearing shorts for most of the winter.
So does ours, but we got post!
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Shading for the alpine-house?
It depends on what you want to grow in your house.
For dionysias or Saxifrages for example you need shade ( outside of the glasshouse)of course .
There are however lots of plants you can grow without any shade.
My alpine-house is protected by aluminium shade netting what let pass about 70 % light.
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Maggi
This bit of Aberdeen does use shade, a lot. Since I grow shade plants that need low light and high humidity Some of the greenhouse shade is outside and some inside. In the summer I shut the automatic vents at the bottom of the greenhouse, put the door to open automatically (temperature controlled), put the shades down and use automatic humidity control as well. If I do not do all these from about 11am to 5pm the humidity can fall to below 30%, my target is 50%. The shades are net with cut-offs of up to 70% and I try to judge the weather, more shade in times of sun (remember that it does exist), less or none in cloudy conditions. I have never managed to get round to automating that. I also use some shade on the big frames (Shortia, Meconopsis and Gesneriads) in hot weather.
Brian
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Indeed, you do need, and use shade, Brian.... just not needed here for us, or what we grow, so better that you tell us your experience! 8)
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someone mentioned 'cool house' is that one of those paint on things?
a fellow cactus grower in belgium was using a new product like that--looked like old fashioned lime coating, but it would be transparent when wet, so not blocking sun on rainy days..
he had it painted on in fancy zig zags for dappled light.
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That sounds like a great idea
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'Coolglass' is white paint-on shading that does not react to adverse weather whilst 'Nixol' is a paint-on type that is weather sensitive but don't know if these are available outside the UK.
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Maybe Twowest will mail to mainland Europe
http://www.twowests.co.uk/TwoWestsSite/pages/product/product.asp?prod=NXL&cookie%5Ftest=1 (http://www.twowests.co.uk/TwoWestsSite/pages/product/product.asp?prod=NXL&cookie%5Ftest=1)
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Not much good for Cohan he's in Alberta, Canada ;D
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Not much good for Cohan he's in Alberta, Canada ;D
no problem for now--no greenhouse to worry about yet ;) just curious about the tech, right now;
speaking of hypothetical greenhouses--i'm wondering if there is a retail application of the stuff they used for the swimming dome (bird's nest, if i have the right one?) at beijing olympics? i saw a bit of a show about the building, and it was like some kind of super duper plastic wrap...