Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Iris => Topic started by: Diane Whitehead on January 10, 2009, 07:00:01 AM
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All the Iris lazica we have growing here seems to be the same clone.
I have seen a picture of a darker one near Seattle.
I wonder if there is much variation in the wild ones, which grow at the
Eastern end of the Black Sea, in Turkey and Georgia.
It flowers in winter, according to one report, or in spring according to
another. It grows on hillsides among chestnuts and rhododendrons.
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I had a discussion with a friend yesterday on Iris lazica habitat. I agree the books specify it is somewhat of an edge of woodland plant but when I found it in Eastern Turkey it was growing both in semi shade and in full sun. There was a large rock at the side of the river probably a 2 metres cube and it had a hollow in the top and one plant of the iris sat in this with no water and shade. It was about 60cms across and formed a perfect circle.
Here is my plant growing in the garden
Iris lazica
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Nice for the garden Tony. I'm trying to find a source of Iris cretica (a form of unguicularis).
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Anthony, this is the guy...
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Nice for the garden Tony. I'm trying to find a source of Iris cretica (a form of unguicularis).
Anthony, I'm not sure Iris cretica exists ??? Did you mean I. cretensis (Greece, Crete and possibly Syria) or maybe I. carica (Greece, Crete, Cos, Rhodes, and some forms Turkey, Syria and Lebanon) ? You may find that Kevock stock I. cretensis, and White Cottage Alpines near Hull list I. carica.
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I had a discussion with a friend yesterday on Iris lazica habitat. I agree the books specify it is somewhat of an edge of woodland plant but when I found it in Eastern Turkey it was growing both in semi shade and in full sun. There was a large rock at the side of the river probably a 2 metres cube and it had a hollow in the top and one plant of the iris sat in this with no water and shade. It was about 60cms across and formed a perfect circle.
Here is my plant growing in the garden
Iris lazica
Tony, my plant grows in full sun (or what passes for full sun here!) with little or no attention and flowers it's socks off. Gets plenty of water though>
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Nice for the garden Tony. I'm trying to find a source of Iris cretica (a form of unguicularis).
Anthony, I'm not sure Iris cretica exists ??? Did you mean I. cretensis (Greece, Crete and possibly Syria) or maybe I. carica (Greece, Crete, Cos, Rhodes, and some forms Turkey, Syria and Lebanon) ? You may find that Kevock stock I. cretensis, and White Cottage Alpines near Hull list I. carica.
You could be right David? There are references to both on Googletm. It's the one Oron illustrates. A narrow leaved unguicularis from Crete. I'm always disappointed with the forms of unguicularis I have as they rend to flower in March or even April when there really isn't any point in having the plant any more! :( Thanks for the suggested suppliers.
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Anthony,
I unguicularis from N. Africa [Algeria], blooms much earlier starting in December till mid February.
It is very similar to I. lazica in flower form and wide leaves and by being an evergreen.
I. unguicularis ssp. cretense and ssp. carica tend to dry leaves in hot summer and also seems to prefer acid soils.
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No problem with the soil type. Were are acid peat over clay.
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Anthony last time you mentioned you wanted Iris unguicularis ssp cretensis I said I could offer you one but I did not get a reply. I cannot flower it but this is probably just me.
You are very welcome to a piece.
I have about a dozen forms of I unguicularis from Turkey and they flower well and are quite robust.I have grown them in pots but now planted them out to see how they do.
David I can find no reference to Iris carica in the 'The Iris' by Brian Mathew
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Tony, I picked it up from a Document titled "Summary of the Genus Iris" but can't remember for the life of me where I got it from but my Word document file tells me the Author was Robert Pries.
Since I typed above I have Googled the Title which takes me to a Pacific Bulb Society document of a slightly different format to the document I have. See this Link http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Iris/New_Iris_Classification.htm
If you would like a copy of the document I have just let me know and I will send it to your private Email address. The file size is 164KB
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Anthony last time you mentioned you wanted Iris unguicularis ssp cretensis I said I could offer you one but I did not get a reply. I cannot flower it but this is probably just me.
You are very welcome to a piece.
I have about a dozen forms of I unguicularis from Turkey and they flower well and are quite robust.I have grown them in pots but now planted them out to see how they do.
David I can find no reference to Iris carica in the 'The Iris' by Brian Mathew
Gosh, that is very remiss of me. :-[ I'd love to try a piece.
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Here is another iris unguicularis ssp. cretensis in the wild, in Crete;
a very small plant, brighter than I. unguicularis.
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/84/35/03/crete010.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=398&u=11843503)
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Fred that is very nice,it is very similar in the Pelopennese.
I noticed the first flower out on Iris lazica today.
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That is beautiful. I spoke to Ian Steele at the Stirling group meeting on Wednesday (an absorbing, and very interesting, illustrated talk by Sandy Leven on British Columbia). His unguicularius has been flowering since December. :)
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I had the aforementioned cretensis or whatever its name is until about 2 years ago it grew well and flowered well each year in my scree. I found it easy until both large plants just rotted off and no amount of taking bits seemed to work. This could have been due to the wet summers and wet winters of recent time. I may still have a fragment but can't find it, but here is what it looked like before it departed this world - such a lovely thing in flower
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My Iris unguicularis stated flowering mid-November and has flowered on and off since then. I posted a pic of my Iris lazica in flower on 18 August last and that too is still in flower.
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Fred, terrific picture of Iris unguicularis cretensis... ::) Could you please send me a copy in full size? I would like to make a watercolor!!! it is calling me to make it... ;D ;D ;D
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.........and I'll buy it off you Rafa. :)
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I had the aforementioned cretensis or whatever its name is until about 2 years ago it grew well and flowered well each year in my scree. I found it easy until both large plants just rotted off and no amount of taking bits seemed to work. This could have been due to the wet summers and wet winters of recent time. I may still have a fragment but can't find it, but here is what it looked like before it departed this world - such a lovely thing in flower
Ian sent me some and it is hanging on by a thread..... at least it was..... long cold and wet may have done for it..... under lots of snow at present, so can't say...... it would be sad to have lost it before it gave a flower :-[ :-\
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.........and I'll buy it off you Rafa. :)
Fred, in this case thinking in a commission 8)
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OK Rafa,
I send you the pic by mail, but I think I'll have to reduce the file...
And I hope Anthony will appreciate your painting ;)
No commission of course ??? :o
enjoy !
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I was told to put mine in a trough but Ian's plant looks huge
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Mark the term is WAS large - it is no more :(. The plant itself has very grassy leaves which can be a bit straggly when not in flower but spectacular when flowering. When the flower buds come they appear from nowhere and it has often flowered for me in February and early March. It is usually no more than 9" high (22cm)
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I should have said I first saw a plant of this growing in Roy Elliots tufa wall a very long time ago. This feature was protected from excess moisture by a lean to roof but mineWAS happy outside :(
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Rick Tasco have selections of Iris unguicularis:
(http://thumb2.webshots.net/t/16/17/7/23/77/2625723770032621402yFHtMu_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2625723770032621402yFHtMu)(http://thumb2.webshots.net/t/50/150/5/84/10/528458410bycqyu_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1528458410032621402bycqyu)
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Iris lazica in my garden, and Iris unguicularis 'Lilacina', both from seeds :
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Interesting Bio, the foliage on your Iris lazica appears to be much thinner than the foliage on my plant. Mine has been flowering on and off since last October and is currently full of flowers but I don't have a picture of it-here is a picture from last year. Do you think my plant is mis-named?
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I'm not botanist, but usually, iris from the section Unguiculares with leaves of about 1 cm wide are Iris unguicularis, so yes, I think yours is misnamed, but it's only my own opinion ;)
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Bio, I agree with David , your first photo is unguicularis.
Unguicularis carica and Ung. cretensis have thin leaves, less than 1cm and I would say even less than 0.5cm in many cases.
There is a form that seems to be originated in Algeria that has wider leaves of about 1-1.5cm.
Iris lazica has wider leaves such as the one David posted. [By the way Iris lazica it self is still considered to be a form of I. unguicularis by some people]
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it's interesting for me as the two plants are very different and grow side by side in my garden : Iris "lazica" (front) has thin leaves, flowers stripped and on short pedicels but held above the folliage : Iris unguicularis (behind) has large leaves, flowers not stripped and among the leaves/ Identification could be wrong, but at least on an horticultural point of vue, it's difficult to consider the two ones under the same name... :-\
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These are the two forms I was talking about.
The thin one can be either ssp carica or ssp cretensis, the leaves are too thin and do not stand still, this is why the flowers grow above them.
Often in the wild leaves dry out completely in summer and new leaves appear next winter.
The form with the wide leaves can be either originated in Algeria or can be a cultivar,
this form is widely grown in Israel and it stays evergreen even with no irrigation.
There is variation in the color of the flowers and the existence or lack of stripes.
If you go back to the first page in this thread you can see photos we have posted of the different forms.
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I find it difficult to see either plant as I lazica.The leaves on the front one are unguicularis and I wolud say the back one is as well.
I lazica has wide soft leaves whilst the unguicularis has tough ones.