Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Luc Gilgemyn on January 02, 2009, 03:50:55 PM
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I suppose I'm the first to post Narcissus pix in 2009 - so here we go :
- Narcissus bulbocodium genuinus x N. albidus ss. albidus
- What I grow as Narcissus romieuxii 'Julia Jane'
- Narcissus albidus ss albidus, just opening
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Three beauties Luc, my version of 'Julia Jane' is lagging well behind yours.
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Very nice Luc. The very cold weather is holding mine back.
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I like the second one a lot :)
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Luc
Where are you growing them - I did not see a greenhouse in the shot of your garden in the AGS bulletin ;)
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They're grown outside for the best part of the year Arthur, I move them inside our Veranda when frost is in the air or when they start blooming, so I can admire them better 8)
But you're right, I have no greenhouse... :'(
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Luc
truly beautiful, the advances always are appreciated, my Bulbocodium are outside under the snow
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Luc
your first yellow hybrid is very beautiful. Thanks
Dom
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Very nice Luc. What have you used behind the flowers to photograph them? It shows up the pale colours very well.
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Luc,
Super photos of beautiful narcissi. Thanks! My Narcissus are outside stone-hard frozen.
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Thanks for the compliments everyone ! :D
Anne,
I use a simple piece of greyish/black cardboard - it has even become slightly lighter over the years.. ;)
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Luc, they are really lovely, I can feel another pang of wanting starting here.
How hardy are these ?
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I guess most of them are quite hardy Helen. But as the BD has often written in the bulblog, they're flowering time - anytime from late November to February - is quite unfavorable to them in our climate, where they suffer from frosts, hard winds and rain, so it's more comfortable to be able to enjoy they're beauty somewhat sheltered. I have some (similar) in the garden, but depending on the weather they won't flower for another 3 or 4 weeks or so.
They also seem to favour a warm/dry summer rest, which is not all that frequent out here in the open garden. ;)
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Thanks Luc, I guess I better get moving over to the bulblog and start reading.
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Helen & Luc - I hate to throw cold water on the issue but, as noted bfore, we cannot even get N. bulbocodium through but a few winters. When purchased from Holland they bloom the first spring and then never flower again. They tend to peter out after a few years, especially cold snow winters knock them out too.
Perfectly fine in the greenhouse but not so easy to get plentiful buds.
johnw
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Well John, you probably did me a big favour telling us that
Btw, when you say greenhouse, do you mean a heated or unheated greenhouse?
I have a little 6X8foot one from Costco, but it isn't heated.
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Helen - A greenhouse for these bulbs would have to have minimal heat just to keep the frost out. I have gas and really should have a back-up electric as well.
It really should be double glazed in this climate, we put styro against the glass on the northside for the winter and the plastic film you shrink with a hairdryer on the ceiling - available at CTC.
johnw
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John, mine is just an aluminium frame with 4-mm twin wall opaque polycarbonate panels.
So I guess the narcissus are out.
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Helen,
This season I am trying N romieuxii and N cantabricus in my unheated greenhouse (in a sand plunge). So far the autumn here in Stockholm has been mild but around christmas winter arrived and the last week we´ve had around 5-10 degrees below zero and the bulbs are deep frozen now. I guess that I will have some idea about their cold hardiness next spring :-\. Ordinary narcissus bulbocodium worked fine here last year. But maybe your climate is colder than here in mid-Sweden.
When it comes to gardening I would prefer to live in a milder climate really. On the other hand the conditions for outdoor skating are great right now. I spent the whole day out on the lakes today :D
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Lars, the temps here can get down to around -30C, not counting the windchill.
I don't see how a bulb could tell the temperature once it is frozen, so not sure if it would matter how cold it is.
Good luck with your N romieuxii and N cantabricus, I will be watching for your results.
I agree, a mild climate would be lovely.
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I don't see how a bulb could tell the temperature once it is frozen, so not sure if it would matter how cold it is.
Helen - My understanding of this matter of soil temps outside is if moist the soil temp will not be too far below 0c by but a few degrees. However if the soil is dry the soil temperature can drop much lower causing extensive damage to some plants. We saw this in 1991 when people all down the eastern seaboard lost many thoroughly hardy perennials - they freeze dried.
Our native Tsuga canadensis is only root hardy to about -6c! Can you believe it given our air temperatures?
Plants in pots are easily killed and nurseries here generally store potted trees and shrubs in hoop houses covered in white poly the winter long. Often they quadruple stack the pots. Some think this is enough and ask why all the dead magnolias, daphnes and rhododendrons, to name but a few. They simply will not take the time to heel the pots into wood chips on the ground or sink them into sand. I have pretty much given up telling them anymore.
We also have to get our troughs down on the ground for the winter. Only those with tough subjects like semps and saxs stay up in the air.
Lars' method might be worth a try, start with some tough bulbs and see what happens. Not much good here as I have also house frost tender plants in my greenhouse so 2-3c is bottom.
johnw
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Thanks for the advice John, my problem is I am finding this forum to be too much like a lolly shop, and I fear I will over indulge.
There are so many new types of plants for me to try that will be hardy I should perhaps stick to those. ::)
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I am having to consider myself truly blessed after reading the above posts. It has never occurred to me to think of all these little Narcissus forms as anything except bone hardy - which they are, in my climate.
Anthony - would you please consider a different avatar picture? For those of us who no longer have 20/20 vision, your present one is a black hole and nothing else.
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Saw the first clump of grass verge daffs of the year yesterday, about 2 weeks later than they were last year. Will try to get a pic sometime this week.
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Narcissus ..... they seem SO far away here at the moment. Although it is really only a few months until the autumn species start flowering (if my viridiflorus actually do this year) and May is the first of the bulbocodiums. But who's counting? :-[
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My N. viridiflorus bulbs flowered for the first time in May last year - a very oddball plant with the oddest scent. Are there any well known hybrids with more 'conventional' species of Narcissus?
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Yes,
Luit showed some plants raised in the Netherlands in this Forum - unfortunately I can't find the date. ???
There is also some hybridisation in California (Prof. Koopowitz).
Gerd
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I sent an email enquiring about the hybrids but got no reply. >:(
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Yes,
Luit showed some plants raised in the Netherlands in this Forum - unfortunately I can't find the date. ???
There is also some hybridisation in California (Prof. Koopowitz).
Gerd
Gerd this was in Winter Flower Show Jan. 2008
I hope to show some this week again!
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When will these special bulbs be available to amateurs like me?
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When will these special bulbs be available to amateurs like me?
I wonder the same thing, Anthony....perhaps when we are slim and beautiful.... it could be a long wait :P
I presume in your earlier post you mean that you emailed Prof. Koopowitz about the hybrids without getting an answer?
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When will these special bulbs be available to amateurs like me?
I wonder the same thing, Anthony....perhaps when we are slim and beautiful.... it could be a long wait :P
I presume in your earlier post you mean that you emailed Prof. Koopowitz about the hybrids without getting an answer?
If these posts are about the N.viridiflora hybrids mentioned earlier on the forum then this is the website:
http://www.wfleenen.com/web/flowerbulbs/Viridiflora+Daffodils/
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If these posts are about the N.viridiflora hybrids mentioned earlier on the forum then this is the website:
http://www.wfleenen.com/web/flowerbulbs/Viridiflora+Daffodils/
Thanks, Gerry, I expect that is more likely to be what Anthony meant.
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Yes,
Luit showed some plants raised in the Netherlands in this Forum - unfortunately I can't find the date. ???
There is also some hybridisation in California (Prof. Koopowitz).
Gerd
Gerd this was in Winter Flower Show Jan. 2008
I hope to show some this week again!
This is the page where Luit first showed these interesting Narcissus viridiflora hybrids....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1167.0
I must say that I would hope that these hybrids would prove vigorous and so be able to provide us with bulbs which will flower more easily and more often than species viridiflorus does!
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Thanks for the link Gerry. What little gems those all are. But I'm still strying to find straight N. viridiflorus. :'(
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Thanks for the link Gerry. What little gems those all are. But I'm still strying to find straight N. viridiflorus. :'(
Hi Lesley,
isn't it available in NZ? Is it on MAF? Mine don't always set seed but I intend to do some pollinating this year (famous last words!).
How restrictive is it to send bulbs to NZ?
cheers
fermi
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It is on our list Fermi, so someone must have it, somewhere. Bulbs are difficult to send but I do plan to get some from Marcus (better get my order away in a hurry) and he has all the inspections, phytos etc in place - just in case you have a spare bulb or two. :)
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Does anyone have a contact address (pref email) for Keira bulbs? They don't seem to be at the one I used last year.
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Anne - I corresponded with Graham a few years back. (Hope to see flowers from the seed this year.) I cannot locate the email address but it must be older than yours! He is listed as 'Mini-daffs' in our members list. Have you tried a Personal Message?
I googled Keira and Mini Daffs but he is an elusive guy!
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If these posts are about the N.viridiflora hybrids mentioned earlier on the forum then this is the website:
http://www.wfleenen.com/web/flowerbulbs/Viridiflora+Daffodils/
Thanks, Gerry, I expect that is more likely to be what Anthony meant.
I think it was an English firm?
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I will contact Leenan. I tried to download a brochure, but it doesn't. All you get is another copy of the daffodil you are looking at. I thought it would have been a catalogue? The viridiflora [sic] plants don't seem to be listed in their sales section.
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It is on our list Fermi, so someone must have it, somewhere. Bulbs are difficult to send but I do plan to get some from Marcus (better get my order away in a hurry) and he has all the inspections, phytos etc in place - just in case you have a spare bulb or two. :)
Lesley , I would be happy to send a few N. viridiflora to you ,via Marcus. , just in case he can't supply any. - so please let me know in time
Ciao otto.
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I'm still waiting for my one viridiflorus flower bud (out of 20 bulbs) to open.
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Thanks, Tony, I've tried 2 different email adresses and Google too! I know he has been moving house so that may be part of the problem.
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What a charming miniature (5cm high)
Narcissus asturiensis
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Very charming plant, Dom :)
I´ll have to wait for mine a few more months I guess.
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Here is what I have labelled 'Julia Jane'.
[attach=1]
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Beautiful Narcissus! here there are few ones in the green house like a very soon N. bulbocodium var. nivalis and var. graellsii, N. albidus var. occidentalis, N. albidus var. foliosus. N. tazetta and it will bloom next wee many N. asturiensis like Dominique's one. I am waiting a good sunny day to take some pictures 8)
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Hello Anthony,thanks for your comment on my pot of N romieuxii in the fridge,I purchased a few years ago from a very reliable source as N rom Julia Jane,I have since been told that they are not JJ,So I just refer to them as N romieuxii,But I still think my source was right.Pity I have not a cloe up to compare.
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Tony refers to a comment from Anthony about a pot of Narcissus pictured in a fridge in this thread....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2914.msg68599#msg68599 in this post....
Re: Mini fridge for controlled winter storing
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2009, 05:31:06 PM »
here is a copy of part of that photo...
[attach=1]
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Ah, we return to the 'Julia Jane' mystery! I must say that I incline to the belief that 'Julia Jane' is a very pale, flat faced, reflexing flower. Luc showed his bulb at the start of this thread. I refer you also to this page from the AGS website, where JoHn Richards speaks about other forms of Narcissus romieuxii and 'Julia Jane' The photo of 'Julia Jane' on that page is the second one on the page, down a little on the left hand side. This shows a large flowered very petunioide flower which is very pale and creamy yellow, in colour.
Anthony's flower, four posts above this, is, to my mind, while quite flat-faced, too yellow, unless this is a colour cast to the photo. Tony's pot of lovely flowers is similarly too yellow, unless this too is a colour cast.
JJ should, I believe, have flowers the coronas of which are pretty much flat in profile, flat to the spikey little petals behind. When fully mature and in a little warmth, the outer edges of the corona will roll back. It is hard to tell at which stage of growth Tony's flowers are, but I detect too much of a forward pointing flare for my definition of JJ.
Wonder if the BD will come in and comment?
There is also this page in the old forum : http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/321/23059.html
Oops, I forgot to include the link to John Richards plant portrait in the AGS site......
JR descibes 'Julia Jane' as having whitish spathes and being taller and larger flowered than romieuxii .
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/plants/Narcissus+romieuxii/12/
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This is a picture from last year of what I have as 'Julia Jane'
Looks like the slugs have got the better of it this year
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Mmmmmm! I too would be interested in the BD's view.
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Anthony's yellow plant might be 'Atlas Gold' though I don't suggest this with any degree of confidence. I would think that the only people who could pronounce authoritatively on 'JJ' would be either Jim Archibald or someone who had a sample of the original clone directly from him. Or, as second best, a photograph of the original plant.
In his seed list Jim describes 'JJ' as "pale yellow......with large flowers , whose coronas open flat or even slightly reflex. The clonal name, of course, should not be applied to seedlings which will vary". I have the impression that most of the plants offered in the trade as 'JJ' are, in fact, seedlings.
I can almost hear Annew's cry of despair.
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Oops, I forgot to include the link to John Richards plant portrait in the AGS site......
JR descibes 'Julia Jane' as having whitish spathes and being taller and larger flowered than romieuxii .
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/plants/Narcissus+romieuxii/12/
I have the impression that most of the plants offered in the trade as 'JJ' are, in fact, seedlings
I think you've got that exactly right, Gerry.
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I placed a picture of N. Julia Jane in the topic Mid Winter Flower Show.
The grower of it told me that it is a very good propagating bulb.
Another, very knowledgeable specialist here, told me that Joy Bishop is a difficult grower and has a bit darker colour.
On Daffseek is the following description and I hope it is allright when I show this here in the discussion :-\
Wild-collected selection of N. romieuxii, by J.C. Archibald #JCA805; Fl. large, light greenish yellow;
perianth segments narrow, tapering to apex, acute, with green at midrib, spreading or slightly reflexed,
twisted, separated; corona disc-shaped or very broad and shallow funnel-shaped, lightly ribbed,
paler than perianth, at times touched with darker yellow at base and rim, mouth a little wavy,
at times obscurely lobed, rim irregularly and shallowly crenate, at times recurved or rolled.
Later than others in same group, eg `Joy Bishop'. Resembles N. cantabricus var. petunioides.
On Daffseek are 22 pictures and the colours are a bit different, even from the same photographers.
(Edit by Maggi : here is the link to the DaffSeek pages:
http://daffseek.org/query/query-detail.php?value1=Julia%20Jane&lastpage=1
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I have the impression that most of the plants offered in the trade as 'JJ' are, in fact, seedlings
I think you've got that exactly right, Gerry.
And I forgot to add that, even if they are not the real thing, they can still be very attractive plants & well-worth growing.
The plants photographed by Luit do not seem to have the "whitish spathe" mentioned by John Richards (is his plant true?) nor do the coronas seem particularly flat if they are compared with the coronas of 'Joy Bishop' in the plant identified by Joy herself in a thread last year. Perhaps the shape of the corona depends on the age of the flower, though I haven't noticed this to any significant extent in the 'ordinary' N. romieuxii I grow.
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They ARE ALL lovely, that's for sure. Some interesting pix and comments on this page from the Old Forum, too....www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/23192.jpg
Including these beautiful pictures of the bulb John Forrest grows as 'Julia Jane' and which do equate with what I think is the right thing ( by the way, I think John F uses a grey card as backing and this card appears more "mushroom" so I reckon the yellow colour is stronger than in real life ???)
but, as I say, these are lovely pictures and show just what makes JJ different and sought after....
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
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Wow Maggi, Springtime seems to have started already in Aberdeen.... ;) 8)
Need no coat anymore?? ;D ;D
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ooops after posting this another picture... :-\ ;D
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Including these beautiful pictures of the bulb John Forrest grows as 'Julia Jane' and which do equate with what I think is the right thing
I think it likely that any group of plants raised from JJA seed pop. ref. 705.120 (which is from 'Julia Jane' selfed) will contain some plants which resemble 'JJ' to a greater or lesser extent. However close the resemblance, they are still not entitled to the clonal name. Indeed, according to Blanchard, petunioid forms are fairly common among all these High Atlas hoop-petticoats so we might expect them to occur in any seed-raised population.
John Forrest's plant is certainly very attractive but it does not have the "whitish spathe" mentioned by John Richards. But why should we believe this is a significant feature ? It is not really much help to say that 'JJ' is like N. cantabricus petunioides since, as we have recently seen, there is uncertainty over the identity of that plant.
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It is also very misleading to describe JJ's flowers as "greenish yellow." Pale yellow should be emphasized, or "pale lemon" yellow even better. The ones in Luit's picture seem too cup-shaped to me. John Forrest's look right for shape but are deeper coloured than the true original and could, as Maggi suggests have a camera or lighting issue rather than the wrong bulb.
Seedlings from JJ do vary considerably, all generally similar, especially to colour but the shape of the cups can vary a lot, the second generation (i.e. seedlings of the seedlings) even more so. I think Anthony's equates with 'Atlas Gold' which has a smaller flower than JJ and also has a heavier, more fabric-like (and weather resistant)texture.
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The picture I showed as JJ in the first post of this thread is from a pot with ten young bulbs obtained last year from the AGS Summer bulb sale. Three are flowering now - three different shapes and colours - only the one I showed in the picture seems to meet the JJ standards... As mentioned before, they're all beautiful though :)
I guess they're all seedlings.
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I think it would be sensible if all these supposed 'JJs' were called N. romieuxii ex 'Julia Jane' or, even better, simply N. romieuxii. I doubt this will happen since the name has acquired an aura of mystery & elusiveness.
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The pics in reply #57 are exactly the colour of my plant. The fluorescent light in the kitchen darkens mine somewhat. Whatever it is, the small prostrate leaves are much better that the 'grass' in many other varieties.
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I'm getting hooked on these wee things
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There's a fantastic pic of Narcissus bulbocodium ssp. praecox ‘Moulay Brahim’ on the latest Wisley log. 8) [see http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2009Jan061231251143Log_1_of_2009.pdf]. Not a clone I know, but definitely one to look out for.
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I'm getting hooked on these wee things
Glad to hear it!
I believe that these wee narcissus deserve a much wider audience.... the trouble is that at this time of year, when so many are in full flower, there are very few shows and it is certainly the case that there is nothing like exposure at the shows to engender interest in a group of plants. I have yet to come across anyone who on encountering these little gems in real life for the first time, has not been enchanted by them and enthused to learn more.
Yes, they are offered on various lists, but since so many folk don't "know " the plants in real life, it seems they don't much order these types :'(
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The pics in reply #57 are exactly the colour of my plant. The fluorescent light in the kitchen darkens mine somewhat. Whatever it is, the small prostrate leaves are much better that the 'grass' in many other varieties.
Anthony - I didn't notice this the first time round but the prostrate leaves suggest your plant is not 'Atlas Gold' which has more or less upright foliage ("grass"). Are the leaves rounded or flattened?
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Round, but I'll check later?
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I think it would be sensible if all these supposed 'JJs' were called N. romieuxii ex 'Julia Jane' or, even better, simply N. romieuxii. I doubt this will happen since the name has acquired an aura of mystery & elusiveness.
The ex is already on my label Gerry ! ;)
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I think it would be sensible if all these supposed 'JJs' were called N. romieuxii ex 'Julia Jane' or, even better, simply N. romieuxii. I doubt this will happen since the name has acquired an aura of mystery & elusiveness.
The ex is already on my label Gerry ! ;)
Congratulations Luc. I hope everyone follows your example.
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I think I put 'ex' and 'Julia Jane' together my wife would ask difficult questions? ::)
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;D ;D ;D
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I think I put 'ex' and 'Julia Jane' together my wife would ask difficult questions? ::)
Ex-wives don't ask questions, difficult or otherwise.
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a cuple,
N. albidus foliosus
N. graellsii
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drool, drool ;D
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So Anthony's may turn out to be ex 'Atlas Gold' or in other words, one of very many seedlings which are being raised from the original 805 collection of seed, which itself showed so much variation. Probably it would have been better if none had been named since it seems impossible nowadays to maintain an original selection, if that selection is fertile. Grow them, enjoy them but don't lose sleep over their naming.
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This is "true" 'Atlas Gold,' from Potterton and Martin (as it was then) in 1993.
[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]
And yes, upright, grass-like foliage, rounded. It is extremely vigorous and a smallish clump can produce 70 or more flowers, starting to flower in mid winter. I sometimes have the buds open at ground level (they are outside), fill with snow or water and become little cuplets of ice which are extremely beautiful. When they thaw, they are still in perfect condition.
I've only had seed on AG a couple of times in 15 years and the first batch hasn't flowered yet.
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I looked at 'Atlas Gold' today, again, longing for flowers but there aint any there. :-[
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Rafa:
N. albidus foliosus
Well that puzzles me... I am familiar with N. romieuxii albidus and also with N. cantabricus foliosus, but N. albidus foliosus is a mystery to me... Help, please, Rafa!
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I looked at 'Atlas Gold' today, again, longing for flowers but there aint any there. :-[
Mark - try a warm dry rest in the summer. Mine are in bud at the moment &, as Lesley says, it seems to be very floriferous.
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My Atlas Gold (not from Pottertons) was weak and miffy, suspect it had caught a cold somewhere, I gave it the heave-ho a few years ago.
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My plant is labelled Narcissus romieuxii ex 'Julia Jane' SRGC seed 2003. I have another in flower labelled N. romieuxii JJA 805.
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Narcissus albidus var. foliosus was named by Michael Salomon. I think is not currenty accepted but it is neccesary to say that this species has 6 long leaves per bulb, and I think it is clear a distinctive feature.
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my first small narcissus is out.It is Narcissus bulbocodium from near Avila which is just down the road from where Rafa lives.
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Hello Tony, this is exactly the same Narcissus bulbocodium that grows in most Carpetania region it is subsp. bulbocodium var. nivalis.
It bllom in march, but in green houses or bulb frames it bloom very soon. Some bulbs that I grow has bloomed 3 weeks ago!
All the best.
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Two (similar) Narcissi from Marocco, I received them as Narcissus cantabricus ssp.cantabricus var. foliosus and Narcissus cantabricus ssp. tananicus - but I am not sure if this names are still valid... ::)
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wow :o very beautiful pictures Hans!
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Super photos of some of my favourite flowers.
Narcissus albidus var. foliosus was named by Michael Salomon. I think is not currenty accepted but it is neccesary to say that this species has 6 long leaves per bulb, and I think it is clear a distinctive feature.
Rafa, thank you for this information.
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Muchas Gracias, Maggi and Rafa ;) -
today i checked the the plants and it was the first time I recognized some differences between them... ;D :-[
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I think the dry warm rest would be the answer Mark. After all, it comes from North Africa. Mine gets what can only be called a long dry baking, the compost in the raised bedds getting too hot to touch on many days, and no water at all where AG lives. I keep some in pots as well and sometimes I've emptied the pots to repot and then left them sitting on the bench for as much as 4 months before actually getting to do the repotting (may God forgive me) and though those ones have flowered later, they have flowered as well as all the others. NOTHING miffy about AG at all. I think it's the best of all the forms in the bulbocodium group.
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Here's another couple of pics of my "ex 'Julia Jane'", and I notice that my other plant is actually Narcissus romieuxii JCA 805.
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beautiful plants Anthony :o
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Anthony really nice plants and photographs. A delight to see
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Anthony - irrespective of name or provenance they are delightful.
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They were taken using bounced flash again, although I did had the fluorescent light on the the greenhouse.
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Anthony, these are absolutely lovely, I keep running out of superlatives ::)
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The image below shows a small part of our stock for Narcissus romieuxii 'Treble Chance' growing in one of our bulb tunnels. The main stock in outside coldframes are not yet showing flower buds.
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Lucky for you to have such good looking stock of Treble Chance, eh, Rob? ;D
A lovely sight in the sunlight... all with their faces up to the sun! What sort of width across the face are those flower? They look pretty wide.
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"The image below shows a small part of our stock for Narcissus romieuxii 'Treble Chance' growing..."
Eish!!! (a particularly 'South African' expletive ;D)
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Wonderful sight Rob ! :o
Great to see such a bunch of them together !
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Reference the last 3 comments above for Narcissus Treble Chance:
The flowers open this morning in poor light measure between 38 and 45mm. My knowledge of South African phrases is zero but i guess "Eish" may be close to our phrase "blooming 'eck". And this is just the smallest stock area for Treble Chance, in two outside frames we have over 200 x 15cm pots of stock plants, i'll try to get an image to show you when they bloom.
The bulbs are grown in a good / real John Innes number 2 plus approx 20% by volume of sharp grit, we water the soil twice heavily in September after a cool & dry summer rest, then again in late October - this regime produces & supports root growth, then the leaves. We have just watered heavily again during this breif warm spell.
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Rob, stop it. That's another to add to my list ;D
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Only 530 more David ;D
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Wonderful sight Rob. I find that slugs (the small black ones) like these little hoop petticoats at least as much as I do & this year they singled out 'Treble 'Chance for special attention. Are they a problem on the nursery?
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a couple today
Narcissus asturiensis
Narcissus albidus var. occidentalis
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Wonderful sight Rob. I find that slugs (the small black ones) like these little hoop petticoats at least as much as I do & this year they singled out 'Treble 'Chance for special attention. Are they a problem on the nursery?
Its your fault Gerry. We haven't had problems with the little black slugs for several years, then this afternoon found a herd of them {what do you call a group of slugs??} nibbling away at the emerging buds of Hacquetia epipactis. No problems with the Treble Chance though. You could try removing the name on the labels of Treble Chance - put on 3 *** for instance - its very effective to confuse Lincolnshire mice so might work on Sussex slugs. ;)
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Brian - Your Narcissus cantabricus ssp. cantabricus seed sprouted strongly in the growing shed today - temperature was 4c under sodium lights. This on the coldest day of the winter to date, we got to -9c briefly this afternoon. We haven't resorted to mukluks yet and looking rather silly outdoors in regular shoes.
johnw
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Rafa,
Fine plants!
Is N. cantabricus flowering in the wild so early?
Do the northern populations receive some snow and frost also?
Gerd
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We haven't had problems with the little black slugs for several years, then this afternoon found a herd of them {what do you call a group of slugs??}
A flock Rob. ::)
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We haven't had problems with the little black slugs for several years, then this afternoon found a herd of them {what do you call a group of slugs??}
A flock Rob. ::)
Quite so, anthony, as used in the oft heard expression......"would you look at that --those flockin' slugs have been here again!" ::)
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Wonderful sight Rob. I find that slugs (the small black ones) like these little hoop petticoats at least as much as I do & this year they singled out 'Treble 'Chance for special attention. Are they a problem on the nursery?
{what do you call a group of slugs??}
I'm opting for a sludge of slugs.
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I'm opting for a sludge of slugs.
That is for sure when they are at their best, Jim ;)
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Slugs? A slime, slide, glide, squash, goop, slop...
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I forgot to put the names in last pictures,
Narcissus asturiensis
Narcissus albidus var. occidentalis
Gerd, I think wild populations are alive and safe from the frosts. For example N. cantabricus survived at -10C last week, because is in the ground, but in a pot, I am sure it will die at -5C. I wrote in my notepad N.cantabricus in the nature blooms about 8 February, my birthday! I will make a special report to send Tony Goode for his lecture. :)
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Slugs? Well they are slimy & repulsive. So, I can think of one recently departed British politician whose name might provide a suitable collective noun.
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I forgot to put the names in last pictures,
Narcissus albidus var. occidentalis
Thank you Rafa,
Shame on me for the wrong identification of N. albidus var. occidentalis!
It's interesting that cantabricus in the wild is so frost tolerant and of course
I'm looking forward to your special report which will reach this Forum hopefully.
Gerd
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I wrote in my notepad N.cantabricus in the nature blooms about 8 February, my birthday!
Sounds spot on: here it is in flower between Antequera and Ronda on 11 February 2007
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=275.0
Rafa, what ssp is it please (maybe monophyllus)? I'll post the picture again here
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That's a beautiful clump. Anyone bringing plants of Narcissus x susannae. It's on the cover of a bulletin of the Alpine Garden Soc. that dropped through my letterbox this morning (thanks Mark).
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Beautiful N. cantabricus Diane, it is quite difficoult to me to specified a particular subsp. just with a picture, but Narcissus cantabricus recordered there are Narcissus cantabricus.
I think Narcissus cantabricus subsp. monophyllus is a Moroccan plant, acctually Narcissus foliosus
≡ Narcissus monophyllus var. foliosus Maire, Bull. Soc. Hist. Nat. Afrique N. 20(1): 38, nº
556 (1929)
≡ Narcissus Bulbocodium subsp. monophyllus (Durieu) Maire var. foliosus Maire in Jahand.
& Maire, Cat. pl. Maroc 1: 139 (1931)
≡ Narcissus cantabricus subsp. cantabricus var. foliosus (Maire) A. Fernandes; Kew Bull.
It is very close to Narcissus cantabricus, but with some diferences:
1. N. foliosus has bigger bulbs with brown tunics (N. cantabricus black tunics).
2. N. foliosus has several leaves per bulb and N. cantabricus just one.
3. N. foliosus has rigid and erect leaves, and wider than N. cantabricus.
4. N. foliosus in the flower there is not an angle between corona and tube so visible than in N. cantabricus.
5. N. foliosus is indifferent edafic and N. cantabricus is strict silicicola (I am not very agree with this).
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N. foliosus is indifferent edafic ( edaphic) and N. cantabricus is strict silicicola (I am not very agree with this).
Rafa, I understand this to mean that N. foliosus has no strict soil requirements and N. cantabricus grows specifically on sandy solis..... can you explain a little your disagreements with that?
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Yes, I mean, in the nature Narcissus foliosus grows in every type of soil and Narcissus cantabricus just in silice, but I saw also N. cantabricus growing in limestone. Aslo in Málaga there are many locations growing in limestone, but certenly most of locations are in silice.
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Beautiful N. cantabricus Diane, it is quite difficoult to me to specified a particular subsp. just with a picture, but Narcissus cantabricus recordered there are Narcissus cantabricus. I think Narcissus cantabricus subsp. monophyllus is a Moroccan plant, acctually Narcissus foliosus
Thanks Rafa (these plants were growing in a limestone area near El Chorro).
I find the nomenclature of these narcissus very confusing. Kew monocot database lists N foliosus and N cantabricus foliosus both as valid (therefore different) taxa.
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Wonderful picture Diane
N cantabricus subsp monophyllus does also grow in mainland Spain. I saw this a few years ago growing on schist at Puerto de la Virgin in the Sierra de los Filabres, Almeria. This is one of the localities for this ssp recorded in John Blanchard's book. They were very abundant indeed, quite a fabulous sight. I don't know what the geology is for the occurrences in Morocco, though I'm afraid.
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El Chorro! of course, this is one of most famous place.
I follow spanish taxonomist, and think there is a non comunication between spanis taxonomists and KEW/RHS, because there are many not valid species for us which are still valid in thoses classifications. For example, N. calcicarpetanus, N. lagoi, N. juressianus and many others are not valid. Also there are many others new names like N. cantabricus subsp. monophyllus= N. foliosus, N. bulbocodium subsp. quintanilhae= N. quintanilhae, N. perez-chiscanoi = N. hispanicus subsp. perez-chiscanoi, N.x susannae = N.x litigiosus...etc
Very VERY confusing also to me ???
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Thank you for this info Dave, many Morrocan plants are growing in the south of Spain, very interesting, I didn't know this. I will ask my botanist friends.
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Your white is quite stunning Diane. No matter how many I grow (lots) from what source, seed or bought or gifted, and no matter what names are on them, mine ALWAYS turn out to have some yellow in the colour. I've never had a pure white like that. It is truly beautiful.
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Your white is quite stunning Diane. No matter how many I grow (lots) from what source, seed or bought or gifted, and no matter what names are on them, mine ALWAYS turn out to have some yellow in the colour. I've never had a pure white like that. It is truly beautiful.
Lesley - try 'Rare Plants', N. cantabricus 'Antiquera' (sic). It is pure, sparkling white - lovely. If I can get a decent photo I will post it but my camera seems to have difficulty in auto-focusing on pure white flowers.
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I would LOVE to try Rare Plants but we can't import from him. The costs are huge and he would have to do heaps of in growth inspections etc 6 months before export in order to satisfy MAF and... and... and...
Besides he refused to export to NZ some years ago because MAF wouldn't accept that tubers of Arisaema were dormant, because of the prominent point (which eventually opens to send forth the stem shoot.)
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I would LOVE to try Rare Plants but we can't import from him. The costs are huge and he would have to do heaps of in growth inspections etc 6 months before export in order to satisfy MAF and... and... and...
Besides he refused to export to NZ some years ago because MAF wouldn't accept that tubers of Arisaema were dormant, because of the prominent point (which eventually opens to send forth the stem shoot.)
Sorry Lesley, I should have thought of this given previous posts mentioning MAF restrictions. Surely someone in the SH grows a pure white N.cantabricus? JJA seeds 699.810 & 699.845 are described as "pure white" & "icy sparkling white" respectively.
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Wonderful picture Diane
N cantabricus subsp monophyllus does also grow in mainland Spain. I saw this a few years ago growing on schist at Puerto de la Virgin in the Sierra de los Filabres, Almeria. This is one of the localities for this ssp recorded in John Blanchard's book. They were very abundant indeed, quite a fabulous sight. I don't know what the geology is for the occurrences in Morocco, though I'm afraid.
Dave, I revised some papers and this location from Sierra de los Filabres has been studied many times in Spain, it is a pure N. cantabricus.
Narcissus foliosus is just recordered in Dar Chaouia and Settat, Morocco. As you know, Narcissus cantabricus has one leave per bulb, but usually several bulbs have the same tunic, and it could give the impression that it has many leaves, but they are different bulbs, maybe this is the confusion.
About the reason of why it grows in limetone soil, N. cantabricus is acidofilus plant, but not in excess. It is quite difficult for me to explain in English the reason why it could grow in limestone places but I'll try. N. cantabricus can grow in this limestone places due to an "Endoperlocación" phenomenon.
Basically it means that the PH of the soil changes to acid just on the surface, due to the rains. This could make possible the adaptation of terophytes and even some geophytes which prefer silicio places, if there are many rains per year. Málaga for example is one of the provinces with more rains per year.
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Rafa, thank you for this... I find it MOST interesting.
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Thanks for your explanation, Rafa. It seems to me that the description and distribution of subsp monophyllus (single leaf) that we have here is different from that classified by Spanish botanists. Sorry for introducing the confusion!
However, I'm not at all convinced about your explanation of acid soil at the surface overlying limestone for some of these bulbs. The only case where this might be true is in some of our upland bogs where limestone is covered by a thick covering of peat. This is not the case in most Mediterranean limestone areas where soil is thin to absent (except in the large 'poljas' where the terra rossa is thick locally- but even this contains much residual limestone). Also the rains in say the Malaga areas are certainly not "relentless monsoon" in character which they would have to be to cause any significant soil leaching. I feel certain that any soil on limestone there will have pH greater than 7 - that could - perhaps should - be checked out.
The alpine garden literature in the UK is full of similar arguments, the main one being that rhododendrons can't be grown on limestone. Yet plant hunting accounts show that there are many such occurrences in the wild. The argument then went that the surface must be acid, perhaps because of leaching by rainwater. That is until David Rankin and colleagues proved that some rhodo species do grow with their roots in limestone - measurements in the field showed that the soil is calcareous, and the water extracted from the soil is also alkaline; monsoon floods in the Gang Ho Ba in Yunnan province of China (with bedrock entirely of limestone) are commonly milky white with excess calcium carbonate - these waters are alkaline. I believe that more than 50 species of rhodo have been identified as growing on soils with varying pH that is greater than 7. Can't remember the reference to this work - the original paper I think is in the Plantsman, but there is an abbreviated account in the Alpines 2001 conference volume. I think there must be some other explanation, Rafa.
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Thanks Gerry. I believe a copy of Archibald's current seed list is on its way to me as we speak, so I'll look for those especially.
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My Narcissus cantabricus ssp. cantabricus from a well known supplier of small bulbs are all yellow. I have ordered from a few different suppliers over the years without ever getting the true bulbs. Seed from various sources has also proved to be imposter's. Does anyone know a supplier of the true bulbs?
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My Narcissus cantabricus ssp. cantabricus from a well known supplier of small bulbs are all yellow. I have ordered from a few different suppliers over the years without ever getting the true bulbs. Seed from various sources has also proved to be imposter's. Does anyone know a supplier of the true bulbs?
Michael - I had N.cantabricus 'Antiquera' from 'Rare Plants' last year. It is currently in flower & is pure white.
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I will provide seeds to everybody as soon I will collect in march, from different localities.
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Rafa, put me on the list, please.
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Me too, please . I would love to spend a week trecking round the hill of Segovia looking at these little beauties. Perhaps now my wife has Heidi ( our pooch) I can venture out on my own one day? ;D
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May I join both of these gents on your list Rafa ?? 8)
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;D - and me please ..... 8)
(if they will tolerate lime ::))
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Me also, please, Rafa.
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Can I also have a few seeds, please Rafa :)
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Of course,
ok, when I'll collect I'll post in seeds topic my offer.
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yo tambien por favor, gracias.
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Are we all going to Spain?
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Oh Rafa, DEAR Rafa, please add my name too, to the list.
In the meantime I've ordered two from Marcus in Tasmania, listed as glistening white. If they're not, I'll kill him :o
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Oh Rafa, DEAR Rafa, please add my name too, to the list.
In the meantime I've ordered two from Marcus in Tasmania, listed as glistening white. If they're not, I'll kill him :o
Lesley , the ones Marcus supplies are certainly pure white ,so please do not threaten to kill him, how can you even think of such a horrible act ,otherwise he will not be able to send you my bulbs of Narcissus viridiflorus .
Otto [with kind thoughts , not murderous ones]
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Here is our Narcissus Nylon which we cultivate in a south facing bulb frames, protected by dutch lights throughout most of the year. Very easy & propogated vegetatively. The first image is of Narcissus cantabricus, its a relative new stock few in number & flowering for the first time.
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Your 'Nylon' is much whiter that mine Rob, but we've been through this before and I think the general opinion is that we should now refer to Nylon Group, rather than expect a consistent clone. Maybe the same with 'Julia Jane.'
You're right Otto, and I assure you my thoughts aren't really murderous towards Marcus. On the contrary, as I've had a very nice email this morning doing everything he can to make my importing easier. A prince among men - as, indeed, you are, yourself. :)
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General view in bulb house - the three pots bursting with flowers do not have a name
Unknown Narcissus - would welcome educated guesses
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Arthur, those three pots are surely fine examples of the recently named Narcissus cuticus ? ??? :o 8) ;)
Are they not adorable? Cannot understand why these little cuties are not in everyones glass house!
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Arthur, those three pots are surely fine examples of the recently named Narcissus cuticus ? ??? :o 8) ;)
Are they not adorable? Cannot understand why these little cuties are not in everyones glass house!
Maggi
They probably are - they are always unknown ;)
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Lovely pictures of narcissi in this thread. They really brighten up the dull days we are having too many of just now. I have a few I could label Narcissus cuticus. They are all grown from seed so even if they have species names on the label there is no guarantee they are what they say they are. Blanchard's comments on wild sites often mention variability.
The first two are labelled Narcissus hedreanthus but it does not look like it to me. I specially like the orange anthers.
The others are from SRGC seed sown in 2001, first flowering last year
Narcissus romieuxii albidus zaianicus lutescens x cantabricus - try getting that on a label!!
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Narcissus romieuxii albidus zaianicus lutescens x cantabricus - try getting that on a label!!
So, Roma, that's why you had those long planks of wood in your car .... for plant labels! :o ;)
Great photos, by the way!
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In the last post the second picture of N. rom. etc 3 was taken earlier and the colour fades to almost white as in the previuos pic. Does that make sense?. It's getting late and I've been sitting here too long, having been distracted by the people profiles in the old forum. Thanks for the link Maggi it was very interesting.
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Your 'Nylon' is much whiter that mine Rob, but we've been through this before and I think the general opinion is that we should now refer to Nylon Group, rather than expect a consistent clone. Maybe the same with 'Julia Jane.'
You're right Otto, and I assure you my thoughts aren't really murderous towards Marcus. On the contrary, as I've had a very nice email this morning doing everything he can to make my importing easier. A prince among men - as, indeed, you are, yourself. :)
Lesley, I missed the earlier thread on Narcissus Nylon, looking back I still can't find it ??? but can comment we have two selections of Nylon, one white as the previous image and one yellow, they have been distributed separately for a number of years. Can't find an image of the yellow form at this moment.
Also looking back I spotted your 'Atlas Gold' - SUPERB. And I find the thread on Julia Jane, the image below was taken a couple of years ago at RHS Vincent Square show in February of a group of our stock plants, this one has been propogated at the nursery vegetatively directly from the original bulbs that Jim Archibald supplied us in 1971. I hope you agree that it is a very distinct Narcissus and quite unlike most of the imposters seen in the previous pages.
edit by M: Many thanks to the humble, down-trodden Nurseryman, from the Forum !
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I know what you mean, Roma... just in case others are confused.... this is the first photo .....
[attachthumb=1]
and this was taken some time ( days) later.... showing how the colour changes.....
[attachthumb=2]
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I hope you agree that it is a very distinct Narcissus and quite unlike most of the imposters seen in the previous pages.
Ah well. That's me telt. :( Must get the real McCoy from you Rob. ;)
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So the real Julia Jane has finally stood up !! 8)
Will you bring some to the Harlow show Rob ??
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And i find the thread on Julia Jane, the image below was taken a couple of years ago at RHS Vincent Square show in February of a group of our stock plants, this one has been propogated at the nursery vegetatively directly from the original bulbs that Jim Archibald supplied us in 1971. I hope you agree that it is a very distinct Narcissus and quite unlike most of the imposters seen in the previous pages.
Jim exhibited a potful at Harlow a few years ago - looked just like your plants Rob. Where would we be without a poor humble nurseryman to come to our rescue ;D
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I have really enjoyed looking at all these lovelies, it really brightens up my day. ;D ;D ;D
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Beatidul species!
Tony, It seems youd haven't received my message, well I will send it you again
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Rafa,
Great photo of this beautiful species,
Does it grow well in pots?
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Yes, Oron they are in 9x9x10 square plastic pods and I put 10 bulbs per pod.
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Thanks Rafa,
Great, since that is the actual space still available here.... ;)
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Rafa,
Can I ask what kind of soil do you use for these pots,
I find that many of my bulbs had rotten in these kind of pots, had always drainage problems.
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I use two types of soil I do myself (we haven't John Innes in Spain :-\)
Ones is acid (based in granite and universal substrate) and the other is base or neutral (based in clay - limestone). That I do is a very draining soil for the bulbs, and then I put the pods on a bed surface which is moister than the soil in pods.
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Thanks Rafa,
That is very interesting,
We don't have 'John Innes' either, and so I have to invent or improvises all kinds of mixtures,
but it takes lots of time and quite a hard work.
One of the reasons I like to see bulbous plants in their habitats is to see and understand the type of soil they grow in, than it is easier to try and give them similar conditions, it happened to me more then once to see
plants in the wild growing in completely different conditions from what i gave it at the beginning and after fixing it, its a whole different story...
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I have a whole pot full of these delightful narcissus - N. romiuexii JCA805. Got the bulbs at the Discussion weekend in 2007. No flowers last year, but they sure have made up for that this year. Cost? 25p at the bulb exchange! Thank you whoever donated them, I love them to bits.
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Also looking back I spotted your 'Atlas Gold' - SUPERB. And I find the thread on Julia Jane, the image below was taken a couple of years ago at RHS Vincent Square show in February of a group of our stock plants, this one has been propogated at the nursery vegetatively directly from the original bulbs that Jim Archibald supplied us in 1971. I hope you agree that it is a very distinct Narcissus and quite unlike most of the imposters seen in the previous pages.
Well Rob, since mine came from you and your late friend, it is you whom I have to thank for AG, the best winter flower here by far. I should have bought JJ at the same time as mine is also an imposter. In fact, it looks just like the first of Arthur's pics above, a wide, soft yellow but with a blip in the side as if there's too much fabric to fit into the waistband of a skirt, so a gather is required. (Women will know what I mean.)
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I wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of Rafa if he were in a bad mood! ???
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Rafa
thanks for showing us your potting mix - I like your faithful friend I have one just like it and find it very useful.
Oron
For the last two years I have been using a compost of sand, gravel and leafmould with great success.
The leafmould is more to add some of the essential and trace elements to the mix and could be substituted.
Check out
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2007/260607/log.html
to see more on this subject.
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Thank you Ian, I would like to make better the soil because I am exactly in the same situation like Oron, but is very difficoult to do somthing simmilar than in the nature.
I wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of Rafa if he were in a bad mood! ???
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Ian,
Thank you very much, it is a most usefull information.
So if i got it right the basic mix is 2 parts gravel, 2 parts sand, 1 part leaf mould.
than you add the yummy things...
I suppose if you want to get a more humid retentive soil you would add more leafmould..?
or even change clay pots in plastic ones?
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I use two types of soil I do myself (we haven't John Innes in Spain )
Rafa - I don't think we have John Innes in the UK either. At least not the real thing, made from turf loam which I think is unobtainable today. What is sold under the name of John Innes here is tremendously variable. However, when mixed with grit or limestone chips some types seems to work well enough with most bulbs.
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Ian,
Thank you very much, it is a most usefull information.
So if i got it right the basic mix is 2 parts gravel, 2 parts sand, 1 part leaf mould.
than you add the yummy things...
I suppose if you want to get a more humid retentive soil you would add more leafmould..?
or even change clay pots in plastic ones?
Yes, Oron. And we are growing now almost exclusively in plastic pots.
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You have made my day!!!! :o
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Maybe it s not not for me to say but I do not think that a good mix in one place always is a good mix in Ia second place and vice verse.
It gives a general (very good idea) but when temperature and humidity change a lot then other variants may be better.
I have the feeling that all involved here know it but maybe not all that is reading on the sideline. It is easy to believe that there is a mix that works everywhere (even though no one is claiming that).
Just to give an input from an beginner that at least have realized that one need to adapt everything to ones own growing conditions but can get good directions from others if their growing conditions is taken into consideration.
Please there is no offence meant and I hope no one takes any by me just stating what most but not all know (but do not write every time).
With humble regards
Joakim
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Joakim,
I agree with you 100%, my climate offcourse is very different from that in North Europe for example,
but the basic remains similar, one should find a way to give the bulbs good drainage but still a moist retentive mix, which is not a simple task.
In hot climate i find that plastic pots can cause rot very easy since the soil tend to dry slowly, and the combination of hot wether and humidity can be often fatal.
oron
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I have a whole pot full of these delightful narcissus - N. romiuexii JCA805. Got the bulbs at the Discussion weekend in 2007. No flowers last year, but they sure have made up for that this year. Cost? 25p at the bulb exchange! Thank you whoever donated them, I love them to bits.
That's the one I have (and labelled as such). It is brightening up the kitchen at the moment with its five flowers. 8)
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In hot climate i find that plastic pots can cause rot very easy since the soil tend to dry slowly, and the combination of hot wether and humidity can be often fatal.
Oron I agree completly with you - especially summer seams to be a very dangerous time. Dormant bulbs I lost without watering in plasticpots - in clay it is much easier to keep them. During the growing period there are normally no problems neither in plastic nor in clay pots. The problem might be because of the locally high air moisture and the differences between temperatures of day and night.
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Once a bulb has flowered it has a much reduced need of moisture and we are often tempted to give them more water at that stage. That is a big mistake because as the plant is not using the moisture it is only lost by evaporation and that can be a very slow process in plastic pots even in hot conditions as Oron points out.
Joakim's point about there being no ideal universal potting mix is largely correct but the most important and variable depending on your climate, type of pot and compost is the watering regime.
Now to show a few more pictures of a pot of Narcissus seedlings, I have shown them on the Bulb log previously, which have twin flowers.
They are from second generation seed from N. 'Camoro' a hybrid between N.cantabricus monophylus and N. romieuxii.
I do not know if another species was involved in this second generation or not but I have never seen any of this group having twin flowers.
I was wondering if Rafa or any one else has seen such a thing in the wild or cultivation.
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Very intersting plants Ian!
I have seen in the wild N. rupicola, N. graellsii, N. confusus and N. cantabricus with the same possibility.
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Very nice Ian. Do you plan to twin scale it this year?
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Great plants and an interesting discussion on composts. Here is my Cedric Morris slowly gaining strength. What a plant such early flowers and so tough
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Who lists Cedric Morris?,I can't find it on any lists.
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Michael, I can send you one in the summer.
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Thanks Maggi,will send you something nice in return. (Not chocolate)
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The first narcissus tazetta is open.This is from Greece.
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A bulbocodium from Tizi n'Tichka, Morocco (inside the house).
Nice tazetta, Tony!
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Michael I think you have already have found the best source for Cedric ;)
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Michael I think you have already have found the best source for Cedric ;)
There's always some for sale at the Early Bulb Display.
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Michael I think you have already have found the best source for Cedric ;)
There's always some for sale at the Early Bulb Display.
True-ish... The MacNaughtons of Macplants used to stock Narcissus 'Cedric Morris' ....don't think Michael's coming across for the Early Bulb Day, though..... which is a pity, because I know he'd love it!
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Monksilver lists Cedric Morris at the end of the snowdrops :)
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Monksilver lists Cedric Morris at the end of the snowdrops :)
Well, stripe me pink! Fancy that.... and Cedric Morris is SO yellow!!! ::) ;D
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Here's a pot of Narcissus romieuxii from the greenhouse today.
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Narcissus 'Mite' coming out today. Reminds me I had one called 'Englander' which I once got from P&M, a lovely thing and wonder where it got to?
johnw
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Who lists Cedric Morris?,I can't find it on any lists.
Beth Chatto lists Cedric Morris. Google Beth Chatto and you'll find the website.
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Thanks Martin, but it is currently out of stock.
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I had mine from Beth in 1993 and it did well for me for a few years, then I lifted it a couple of times to give a bulb away and from there it dwindled and died very quickly. Doubt if it's in NZ now. :'(
Rob, yours looks like the true 'Julia Jane,' out for a few days and well rolled back. Beautiful though she is, `Atlas Gold' has better, weather-proof texture.
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My hoop petticoats are coming into their own now too. The main display today was from N. romieuxii var mesatlanticus. It bothers me that what I have as this species is later and yellower than Ian's shown on the bulb log. Perhaps they are just different clones. John Blanchard's book does say they can be white to pale yellow. Any input would be welcome.
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My Narcissus viridiflorus flower has still not opened. This brings into play some interesting possibilities for crosses. :)
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Anne - An absolutely stunning batch there.
johnw
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So good that I don't think I'd be too worried about the name, just grateful for the display.
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Lesley,
beg Marcus for a bulb of Narc. Cedric Morris ,
presently 43C, have not melted away yet, but the heat may have a positive sideeffect,
may loose a few pounds excess weight ,
Otto.
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Thanks Otto, I'll do that. I hadn't thought of Marcus as a source.
Let me know if you lose weight. If so, I'll be right over for the "cure,"
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Lesley - I think you'd be bothered if you bought it from me and it turned out not to be correct.
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splendid potful Anne !! :o
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:o
Magnificent Anne. Do you position your bulbs snugly or is this a pot that's bulked up over a couple of years from a thinner planting?
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My hoop petticoats are coming into their own now too. The main display today was from N. romieuxii var mesatlanticus. It bothers me that what I have as this species is later and yellower than Ian's shown on the bulb log. Perhaps they are just different clones. John Blanchard's book does say they can be white to pale yellow. Any input would be welcome.
Anne - really beautiful!
Paul Christian describes his stock as "darker yellow" (presumably as compared with his 'ordinary' N. romieuxii)
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There are 2 or 3 layers of bulbs in there, I don't have space for more than 2 pots of things, so I have to cram them in. They are repotted every year though.
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Here are some from my bulb house
1282 - unknown
1283 - unknown
1286 - I have this as bulbocodium vulgaris Wallis M84-26
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Your'e right Anne, I'd be swearing and cursing all over the place.
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Arthur, surely the lot are forms of N. romieuxii?
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I assume the 'Wallis' refers to Bob and Rannveig Wallis (Buried Treasure Nursery). I had a look at their last years List to see if there was a clue. No success though.
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Arthur, surely the lot are forms of N. romieuxii?
Lesley
You could well be right. I just enjoy the subtle differences, especially the 'stargazer' type.
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Arthur, surely the lot are forms of N. romieuxii?
Lesley
You could well be right. I just enjoy the subtle differences, especially the 'stargazer' type.
And all that pollen!
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[
They are from second generation seed from N. 'Camoro' a hybrid between N.cantabricus monophylus and N. romieuxii.
I do not know if another species was involved in this second generation or not but I have never seen any of this group having twin flowers.
I was wondering if Rafa or any one else has seen such a thing in the wild or cultivation.
Very intereating and nice plants Ian - I thought Camoro, being a hybrid, albeit of closely related species, might have been sterile so this is good news as 'Camoro' has better legs than many of the species in this low light area.
I have seen several fairly large deep yellow N. bulbocodium with twin-flowers in a small area close to the Rio Guadiano. Can't be sure if it was genetic or a freak seasonal thing.
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Anne
I have read of that there are at least two forms of Narcissus romieuxii var mesatlanticus in cultivation and if you read Blanchard he tells us that Maire described it as a quite deep yellow but that the form in cultivation is pale yellow. Wells in his book Modern Miniature Daffodils describes three forms two are pictured one looks like yours and the other like the one I have. So I do not think you need to worry about yours being wrongly named and it is a very nice looking pot full. Apparently it was the deep yellow form that got the Award of Merit.
Brian yes N.Camoro is fully fertile makes you wonder when as you say it is a cross between two supposedly different species ???
Every day new Narcissus seedlings are flowering and they are all a total mystery to me. They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing - I thought I knew all the hoop petticoat species but it appears that the only thing I learn as I read about these Narcissus is how much I don't know.
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Thanks, Ian!
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Here two narcissus, the second one is bigger (almost double) Its seems Narcissus x stenanthus, but not a complete hybrid, just some chromosomic gamets.
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Very nice Rafa, good deep colour.
Here are a few more from me: December Gold, Atlas Gold from Dave Toole, N hedreanthus, Joy Bishop, and Yellow Pet.
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Beautiful plants! N. hedraeanthus is one of my favourites
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Very very nice Anne and Rafa.
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Wow - very beautiful plants, Anne and Rafa!
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Wonderful pix everyone !! Thank you all !!
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Yes, very nice pictures Anne and Rafa.
Sometimes it´s a little frustrating with the swedish climate. My pots of N bulcodium nivalis and hedraeanthus are just showing some green leaf tips so far, it feels like ages until I can hope for any flowers. But, then again they seem to be alive and that´s always something I suppose :)
Temperatures have been steady below zero for a while now ...
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Here two narcissus, the second one is bigger (almost double) Its seems Narcissus x stenanthus, but not a complete hybrid, just some chromosomic gamets.
Rafa,
Is there such a thing as an 'incomplete' hybrid? Surely it either is or it is not? Do you think it is a sport, a variant or a form?
Your x stenanthus certainly looks as though it might be of mixed parentage - was it found near a source of the reputed other parent N. confusus? Is its foliage any broader or does it show any other 'pseudonarcissus' characteristics. Whatever it is, it looks mighty interesting and chromosome count and DNA reading could be most revealing.
Brian
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Joy Bishop (thank you Anne), bulbocodium praecox and a first bloom of a 4 years sown unidentified from the nature . Rafa, can you tell me what is it ?
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Dom, have you got any data location of this Narcissus?. Recently many bulbocodiums like N. graellsii, N. citrinus etc have gathered in one Narcissus turgidus Salisb.
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NO - I WON'T call my Narcissus bulb. 'Citrinus' N. turgidus. I WON'T, I WON'T. >:( >:( >:(
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Awwww - Go on................give it a try :-\
Turgid -
1: Latin turgidus, from turgēre to be swollen
2: excessively embellished in style or language : bombastic , pompous <turgid prose>
Take your pick but no bombastic replies please ;D
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NO - I WON'T call my Narcissus bulb. 'Citrinus' N. turgidus. I WON'T, I WON'T. >:( >:( >:(
As recently as September 2008 the RHS seem to still be giving N. bulbocodium citrinus as the accepted name and N. turgidus as not an accepted name.
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NO - I WON'T call my Narcissus bulb. 'Citrinus' N. turgidus. I WON'T, I WON'T. >:( >:( >:(
As recently as September 2008 the RHS seem to still be giving N. bulbocodium citrinus as the accepted name and N. turgidus as not an accepted name.
The Kew Monocot Checklist has N. turgidus as a synonym for N. bulbocodium subsp. bulbocodium. But things never remain the same for long in the wild world of hoop petticoats. All part of the fun.
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;D ;D ;D
Also the following names are synonims of Narcissus turgidus, which is the oldest name, named by Richard Anthony Salisbury
Narcissus turgidus Salisb., Prodr.: 222, nº 10 (1796)
≡ Corbularia turgida (Salisb.) Salisb., Trans. Hort. Soc. London 1: 351 (1812)
≡ Corbularia serotina Haworth, Narciss. Monogr.: [7], n° i.9 (xi-1831), non Narcissus serotinus
Loefl. ex Linn. (1753)
≡ Corbularia Bulbocodium var. serotina Herbert, Amaryll.: 297-298, n° 74.2.2 (1837), «N.
turgidus Salisb.»
≡ Narcissus Bulbocodium subsp. Bulbocodium var. serotinus (Haworth) A. Fernandes,
Daffodil & Tulip Yearbook 1968: 55 (1968)
≡ Narcissus tardiflorus Heynh., Nomencl. bot. hort. 1: 540 (1840), nom. nov. pro
Corbularia serotina Haworth (1831)
INDICATIO LOCOTYPICA: nulla, «N. Bulbocodium Curt. Bot. Mag. n. 88 cum Ic.»; «Pseud. Narc.
serotinus, &c. Park. Par. 106. f. 8. N. turgidus. Salisb. Prodr. p. 222. N. Bulbocodium. Bot. Mag.
nec Linn. neque ejus Herbarii. med. Maii floret»; R. A. SALISBURY (1812: 351): «This is a
Pyrenæan mountain plant, which grows wild abundantly near Tarbes... April or May»
= Narcissus Bulbocodium var. conspicuus (Haworth) Baker ex A. Fernandes, The Daffodiland Tulip Year Book 33: 55 (1968)
≡ Narcissus Bulbocodium fma. conspicuus (Haworth) Baker, Handb. Amaryll.: 2, nº 1
(1888)
≡ Corbularia conspicua Haworth, Narciss. Monogr.: [7], n° i.8 (xi-1831); Herbert,
Amaryll.: 298, nº 74.3 (1837)
≡ Narcissus conspicuus (Haworth) D. Don in Sweet, Brit. Flow. Gard., ser. 2: tab. 326
(1830), non N. conspicuus Salisb., Prodr.: 224, nº 14 (1796) nec Philogyne conspicua
Salisb., Trans. Hort. Soc. London 1: 355/356 (1812)
≡ Corbularia Bulbocodium [(Linn.) Haworth] subsp. gallica Rouy race conspicua
(Haworth) Rouy, Fl. France 13: 27 (1912)
INDICATIO LOCOTYPICA: nulla, «Park. Par. 107. f. 6. Floret f. Ap.»
= Corbularia tenuifolia var. minor Herbert, Amaryll.: 298, n° 74.4.2 (1837)
≡ Corbularia Herbertii Rouy, Il. pl. Europæ rar. 14: 114, tab. 347 (1900)
[≡] Narcissus Herbertii Rouy, Il. pl. Europæ rar. 14: 114 (1900), nomen alternativum
INDICATIO LOCOTYPICA: nulla, «cultivated in pots in the Chelsea garden...»
= Narcissus gigas (Haworth) Steud., Nomencl. bot., ed. 2, 2: 181 (1841)
≡ Corbularia gigas Haworth, Narciss. Monogr.: [7], n° i.10 (xi-1831)
≡ Corbularia Bulbocodium var. gigas (Haworth) Herbert, Amaryll.: 298, n° 74.2.3 (1837),
invoca la misma lámina que Haworth, en comentario al final de la misma página: "There
is a very large specimen figured Theatr. flor. t. 21. which Mr. Haworth names Gigas. I
cannot rely upon the engraving, and refer it to Conspicua"
≡ Corbularia conspicua var. gigas (Haworth) Kuntze, Enum. pl. 5: 706, n° 3g (1850)
INDICATIO LOCOTYPICA: nulla, «Pseudo Narcissus pyrenæus flore subluteo amplo calyce
juncifolius. Theatr. flor. t. 21. Fig. inferior media»
= Narcissus Bulbocodium var. citrinus Baker in Burbidge, Florist & Pomologist 1880: 68
(1880); Baker, Handb. Amaryll.: 3, nº 2.1 (1888)
≡ Narcissus Bulbocodium subsp. citrinus (Baker in Burbidge) Fdez. Casas, Fontqueria 2:
39, nº 30; tab. 8 (1982)
[≡] Narcissus citrinus (Baker in Burbidge) Fdez. Casas, Fontqueria 6: 49, nº 62 (1984), non
Narcissus citrinus Link, Handb. 1: 202 (1829), nec Schult. f. in Schult. & Schult. f., Syst.
veg. 7(2): 968, nº 1452.59 (1830)
≡ Narcissus Lainzii Barra & G. López, Anales Jard. Bot. Madrid 50(1): 123 (1992), nom.
nov. pro N. Bulbocodium var. citrinus Baker in Burbidge (1880)
= Narcissus Graellsii Webb ex Graells, Ind. pl. nov.: 8 (1854); Mem. Acad. Cienc. Madrid
2: 471 (1859)
≡ Corbularia Graellsii (Webb ex Graells) Willk. in Willk. & Lange, Prodr. fl. hisp. 1: 150
(1873); Nyman, Consp.: 713, nº 4.3 (1882)
≡ Narcissus Bulbocodium var. Graellsii (Webb ex Graells) Baker, Handb. Amaryll.: 3, nº 1
(1888)
INDICATIO LOCOTYPICA: «el Escorial, Moralzarzal, Manzanares, Guadarrama, etc., ad alt.
3800-4000’»
= Stephanophorum infundibuliformis Dulac, Fl. Hautes-Pyr.: 134, nº 393 (1867)
INDICATIO LOCOTYPICA: Francia, (65) Hautes-Pyrénées; Ibos: 43º14'N, 000º00'W,
31TBH59; La Loustère Rivière, 43º47'N, 000º26'E, 31TBJ95; Gerde, 43º03'N, 000º10'E,
31TBH67; Campan: 43º01'N, 000º10'W, 31TBH66; «Prés: Ibos; Lalouhère (Dev.); Gerde,
Campan, Nordrest (Ph.). C.»
= Corbularia Bulbocodium [(Linn.) Haworth] subsp. gallica (Rouy) Rouy, Fl. France 13:
26 (1912)
[≡] Narcissus gallicus Rouy, Il. pl. Europæ rar. 14: 114, in obs. Corbularia gigas (1900),
nomen
= Corbularia Herbertii Rouy, Il. pl. Europæ rar. 14: 114, tab. 347 (1900)
≡ Corbularia tenuifolia var. minor Herbert, Amaryll.: 298, nº 74.4 .2 (1837)
≡ Corbularia conspicua var. minor (Herbert) M. Roemer, Fam. nat. syn. monogr. [Syn.
Ensat.] 4: 189, nº 59.5b (1847)
≡ Narcissus Herberti Rouy, Il. pl. Europæ rar. 14: 114, tab. 347 (1900), in syn. Corbularia
Herberti Rouy
INDICATIO LOCOTYPICA: nulla, «Both varieties* are cultivated at the Chelsea gardens... I
have not seen the flower»; *var. princeps & var. minor
– Narcissus Bulbocodium subsp. validus Barra, Anales Jard. Bot. Madrid 60(1): 222-223 ,
fig. 1 (2002); cave nomen!; in-”validus”, absque latinæ diagnose nec descriptione!
– Pseudonarcissus juncifolius II flavo flore Clus., Hist. p. 166, ic.
– Narcissus parvulus Léon-Dufour ad Roemer, (1815), nomen ined., cf. Léon-Dufour, Bull.
Soc. Bot. France 7: 446 (1860), nomen, non Sweet, Hort. Brit., ed. 2: 515 (1833), quod
est N. Assoanus Léon-Dufour (1830)
– Pseudo Narcissus pyrenæus flore subluteo amplo calyce juncifolius Bauhin, Pinax Theatr.
fl.: tab. 21 (1623)
– Narcissus citrinus Baker ex Salmon, Daffodil & Tulip Yearb. 1991-1992: 33, fig. 11 [pag.
38], map [pag. 36] (1991), nomen superfluum
– Narcissus citrinus [Baker ex Salmon] subsp. belinensis Salmon, Daffodil & Tulip Yearb.
1991-1992: 33, fig. 23 [sphalm.], map [pag. 36] (1991), nomen nudum
ILLUSTR.: F. J. FERNÁNDEZ CASAS (1982: 38, fig. eight), ut N. Bulbocodium subsp. citrinus.
ILLUSTR.: (photo-): J. W. BLANCHARD (1990: 36, fig. 19), ut N. Graellsii.
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Rafa - I had a feeling that you would have the last word ... or should that be words .. lots of them ;D
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Rafa,
I personally hope your N.turgidus (Salisbury 1796) name does not gain general acceptance - and if we accept the precedence rule then, thankfully, I think it is beaten by N. bulbocodium named by Linnaeus in 1753. I should not have the temerity to dip into such botanical niceties but I like the familiarity of 'bulbocodium' and its many subsp. and variants.
Brian Duncan
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Well, I can put all my bulbocodiums in one pot then! ::)
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Well, I can put all my bulbocodiums in one pot then! ::)
Even better - call them all Corbularia!
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ok, ok I retired my words :-X :o ;D
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some portraits
N. close to stenanthus
Narcissus-romieuxii-susbp.-romieuxii
Narcissus-asturiensis-2
Narcissus-bulbocodium-graellsii
Narcissus-bulbocodium-sebulcor
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I love the stenanthus, a lovely deep yellow.
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I noticed this self-sown seedling in the plunge yesterday, doing strange things. It appears to be trying to produce an extra set of perianth segments.
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I love stenanthus too but all of them in fact. Bravo Rafa and Anne and thanks
Dom
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Here is Narcissus hedraeanthus - much shorter than in last years due to a colder winter
1. Cazorla origin - from today
2. same pot in 2007
3. from a place north of Granada - usually somewhat larger flowers
Gerd
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Gerd - those hedraeanthus are a real delight on a cold, grey day.
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The last ones are almost petunioid, Gerd. All yours are quite different in habit to mine.
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Anne could this be the beginnings of the first double bulbocodium?
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Hmm, I've saved the pollen just in case. Unfortunately I stupidly picked the flower.
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A few weeks ago i showed you part of our stock of Narcissus romieuxii Treble Chance that is grown in one of the bulb poly tunnels. This morning the snow had melted sufficently to lift off the dutch lights on our outside bulb frames to reveal the main stock of Treble Chance - wot a great sight. Don't suppose they would look quite the same without the protection.
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first Narcissus
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Rob & Rafa - beautiful!
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Very nice Rafa, and beautifully photographed too!
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Very impressive Rob !!!
Rafa - how beautiful ! :o :o
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I have to second that Chris. A glorious sight Rob, what a thrill. And such pristine whiteness on the cantabricus flowers. Pure joy. 8)
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A day of sunshine and the number of Narcissus in bloom has increased :)
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Hello,
Nice greenhouse Arthur!
This is Narcissus hispanicus subsp. perez-chiscanoi
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This little 'monster' has appeared in a pot of Narcissus romieuxii albidus zaianicus.
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Oh well Roma, better than mine :-\ grown from seed. It turned to be a boring, dirty white allium! :'(
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Finally I can share Narcissus with you. Some are their first season with me and from Brian Duncan last year
N. lagoi OP - ex Brian Duncan
N. 'Navarre' - one of the best little daffs money can buy
N. asturiense x 'Candlepower' - ex Brian Duncan
N. 'Sidora' - bred by our Anne
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Gorgeous Mark (the Daffs I mean, not you!) ;D
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How tall is Navarre? It looks like a wild asturiensis. And where are you getting this blue sky from????
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Hello,
Nice greenhouse Arthur!
And I have another one in a box ;D Just need time and a good summer to erect it alongside the first. It will be more shady as it will be nearer some trees. Need for this second large greenhouse is becoming urgent as I become more successful in growing on my seeds.
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Anne the petals will open slightly as they age. I dont know the history. As for the blue sky Costa del Antrim
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Finally I can share Narcissus with you. Some are their first season with me and from Brian Duncan last year
N. lagoi OP - ex Brian Duncan
N. 'Navarre' - one of the best little daffs money can buy
N. asturiense x 'Candlepower' - ex Brian Duncan
N. 'Sidora' - bred by our Anne
Very nice selection Mark !
Sidora is my favourite so congrats to the grower and the breeder !
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My first flower of Narcissus hedraeanthus : pretty but really tiny ;D
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/84/35/03/narcis10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=431&u=11843503)
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Mark beat me to Sidora - mine have only just opened in the mild spell we are having. A favourite of mine is this tiny white cantabricus grown from seed in 1991 as tananicus. It's a standard 4" label next to it, and the flower is about 1cm across. Equally tiny are these N. bulbocodium nivalis.
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Just beautiful! Like the wee daffs also!
Gerd
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Super looking plants everyone, sadly suffering from reduced Narcissus numbers here, but now in a new bed I'm hoping they will bulk back up again!
Here is my N.'Taffeta' before the snows landed on top of the bulb frame!
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That is a very fine daffodil, and nothing like what I have under that name (sigh) ::)
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Hi annew,
what is yours like? We suffered alot of vole disturbance last winter and bulbs whilst not eaten were 're-located' by our little friends, this picture matches my memory of 'Taffeta' and seems to match previous posted pics on the SRGC site, but......
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dedicated to Tony Goode
N-cantabricus-SR
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Oh RAFA!! How beautiful!
My Taffeta isn't as nice as yours.
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Does anyone know of any hybrids between hoop petticoat types and trumpet types? Apart from my hedreanthus x asturiensis, I can only think of Kenellis, and Little Soldier. I find that attempted pollinations usually fail.
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RAFA, fantastic in situ Narcissus !!!
Are they flowering now ?
No more snow ? ;D
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Absolutely stunning image Rafa !!!
Muchas gracias for showing !!! :D
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Rafa - what a wonderful sight! Many thanks for posting. Where in Spain are these growing?
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Well, there are many places, but this one is in Toledo. Here another population in Madrid.
Fred: Most of central Spain populations are blooming now, but there are one that is with snow. It seems it stopped of snowing, but I am sure it will start another week....
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Oh, my word! Now that is worth a white fever!!! Stunning, both of those shots, Rafa! 8)
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dedicated to Maggi
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Wonderfull pic RAFA !
Thank's for all ! and for sharing
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Each more beautiful than the last...... Rafa..... you bring us sunshine in these exquite flowers. :-*
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Now THAT is my idea of heaven.
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Well, there are many places, but this one is in Toledo. Here another population in Madrid.
Oh my God Rafa!!
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Rafa has created another kind of white fever. :o Where's that darkened room again? 8) Wordsworth fails me!
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Rafa
Amazing photos, thank you for showing !!!
I haven't realized this species grows in such quantities, just beautiful.
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Now THAT is my idea of heaven.
Paradise.
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Rafa
I spent today looking at drifts of snowdrops in Woods. They were excellent, but pale into insignificance against the beauty of your N. cantabricus. To see them in their natural habitat is wonderful. Thank you for showing these :)
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What a beautiful sight!!
Stunning photos as usual :o
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I endorse all of the previous comments.Snowdrops are wonderful but N.cantabricus are something else when seen like this.Why is it that what we can't grow is nearly always better than that which we can?
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Rafa - your photos just get more & more beautiful. I do hope these sites are protected - they are worthy of world heritage status.
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Although some of these places are protected, private lands, and the species is in some provinces as well you can see other images like this....
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Yes, these are the people who start at the bottom and go down in the world. They exist at the invertebrate end of the spectrum (with apologies to invertebrates), and only operate at reflex level. If a thought went through their heads it would die of loneliness. I know, as I attempt to teach them 5 days a week. They give the human race a bad name.>:(
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Rafa
I had never associated Spain with the callous dumping of rubbish - sadly so frequent in Greece and Turkey
We have fly tipping locally, but never adjacent to such natural beauty.
So sad
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On the theme of rubbish dumps has anyone ever visited the Monastery of Kaisariani, on the lower slopes of Mount Hymettus in the Athens suburbs? It has a stunning collection of Fritillaria graeca, Ophrys lutea, Ophrys fusca, Ophrys tenthredinifera, Orchis italica and Orchis quadripunctata.
Unfortunately you have to pick your way through used nappies, tampons etc.. We were horrified that the locals would dump stuff here, rather than put it out for their refuse collection. Well that was when we saw said refuse collection vehicles reversing in and tipping some fresh rubbish on top of orchids we had just photographed. Barlia robertiana, said to be here also, is usually easily found in flower because of its perfume- not here!!
To be fair this was 8 years, maybe they've cleaned their act up since then. Has anyone been back?
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Bravo Rafa - so many wonderful images! The bitter taste of the last one does not end the wonder of the others.
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Rafa great pictures even the last one shows how nature still thrives in spite of man
Many thanks for sharing
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Just discovered this thread, Rafa ... magnificent images ... many thanks for posting.
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Just discovered this thread, Rafa ... magnificent images ... many thanks for posting.
So did I! Narcissus cantabricus is the most beautiful daff indeed - especially when growing in these quantities!
Gerd
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Here's my Narcissus cantabricus monophyllus photographed is somewhat more modest quantities... ;D
Rafa once more : utterly stunning images !!
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Rafa,
Narcissus in their natural habitat - simply stunning :o 8) I got a bit wet eyes ;D
The last picture is annoying and sad >:( :'(
Luc,
congratulations - please breed more of them! ;D
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Rafa, thanks for the pics, you are so fortunate to be able to see such sights :) .
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thank you for your nice coments. This is from this morning, another place
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Rafa, would you stop this immediatly please !!!
It's raining, nothing flowering in the nature, I'm at home and.... I WANT TO SEE SAME PLANTS IN THE WILD NOW :o 8) ;D
You know, in France too plants doesn't care about rubbishes :
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/84/35/03/img_5710.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=435&u=11843503)
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Oh, what a shame... N. assoanus mixed with debris... >:(
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Instead of putting people in jail for minor offences, they should be made to do Community Service. Clearing up rubbish is areas of beauty would be a good start.
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Great idea Art !! :D
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Rafa,
Thank you for so many magnificent images!
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Spain is really the Narcissus Paradise. Thank you Rafa
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Armin is not the only one with wet eyes. It makes me feel that my plants are like caged animals in a zoo.
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I don't think it would be wise to release them Ann ! 8)
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Rafa, thanks for showing this great views - just breathtaking! :D
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Here are some of my domestic daffodils! Firstly a self sown seedling of the romieuxii type. Secondly probably the nicest small trumpet, at least out now - Candlepower. Next a seedling of pseodonarcissus eugenae which is unfortunately sterile.
The last involves a complicated story. The seed parent is a daffodil I have under the name of 'Willie Buchanan' which may be the same as 'Douglasbank'. The pollen parent was a seedling from watieri x cyclamineus which looked exactly like pure watieri, but from the result obviously did have some cyclamineus genes.
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Anne,
like your primula yellow "candlepower" from your "zoo" :D
And do I see C. biflorus ssp. biflorus in the back?
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My Candlepowers are out now also. I had pseodonarcissus eugenae many moons ago when I first got the bug for bulbs. Sadly it didnt live for long
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Rafa, I add my thanks for these wonderful pics from the wild. Can you briefly explain the conditions under which these romieuxii populations grow; in particular how dry does the soil become in summer?
Anne, what beauties you grow! Not having seen either I wondered whether Candlepower is anything like Kenellis. Your 'Willie Buchanan'/'Douglasbank' seedling seems more flared in the trumpet than Mite but how would you say it compares to Hummingbird?
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The first one Anne, is like an even better 'Joy Bishop.' (Not that anything COULD be better than that generous lady. :D) And the third is really lovely. So frilly and crisp.
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Rafa, I add my thanks for these wonderful pics from the wild. Can you briefly explain the conditions under which these romieuxii populations grow; in particular how dry does the soil become in summer?
Anne, what beauties you grow! Not having seen either I wondered whether Candlepower is anything like Kenellis. Your 'Willie Buchanan'/'Douglasbank' seedling seems more flared in the trumpet than Mite but how would you say it compares to Hummingbird?
All are Narcissus cantabricus growing in acid soil, granite, except last pictures in limestone. All of them grows in very shade or humid places most of the year, except 2 or months or so in summer, with absolute dry.
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Candlepower's flower is only 2.5cm across, whilst Kenellis is somewhat larger, and has bulbocodium in it's parentage. My new Hummingbird has yet to flower. The hybrid is shorter and has a larger, chunkier flower than Mite, which is much more refined.
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All are Narcissus cantabricus growing in acid soil, granite, except last pictures in limestone. All of them grows in very shade or humid places most of the year, except 2 or months or so in summer, with absolute dry.
A(nother) senior moment :-[ :) Thanks Rafa
Candlepower's flower is only 2.5cm across, whilst Kenellis is somewhat larger, and has bulbocodium in it's parentage. My new Hummingbird has yet to flower. The hybrid is shorter and has a larger, chunkier flower than Mite, which is much more refined.
Thanks for this Anne; without some reference it can be hard to make size/colour comparisons from separate pics.
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what a glorious clump of N. mite !!! :o
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It does well in the garden, but does not seem to like pots. It is like its parent cyclamineus in this respect.
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a big trumpet
N. confusus
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Rafa,
I nearly missed this annual treat of narcissus in the wilds of Spain, one of the most brilliant sights of the year on the SRGC forum. And, as usual, you have given us brilliant photographs.
Many thanks, Paddy
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Maravillosa!
Gerd
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Narcissus longispathus originally from Cazorla
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Narcissus longispathus originally from Cazorla
Pretty flower!
Do you grow this species outside? I lost all my plants in the garden peu à peu, I am not sure because of the cold or the narcissus fly liked them.
Gerd
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One from me for today because tomorrow there will be blue sky for me to take good photos of my Narcissus
'Candlepower' x asturiense
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Narcissus longispathus originally from Cazorla
Pretty flower!
Do you grow this species outside? I lost all my plants in the garden peu à peu, I am not sure because of the cold or the narcissus fly liked them.
Gerd
Gerd in the greenhouse like evewything else.I think they are hardy because where I found them was above the snowline.I had my first narcissus fly this year in a phaedranassa.I had never seen one before.Lily beetles arrived two years ago.
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You can bet that if an Amaryllid is expensive, choice or special the Narcissus fly will lay an egg of the leaves. They arent afraid to go in a green house. I killed some last year on my Nerine sarniensis
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That's a very nice hybrid, Mark, the reverse cross which I got is yellow.
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One from me for today because tomorrow there will be blue sky for me to take good photos of my Narcissus
'Candlepower' x asturiense
Mark,
that's a fine flower. Did you do the cross yourself? How high does it stand? Can you show a pic of the entire plant?
We're just getting ready to plant daffs over here! :D
cheers
fermi
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It's a Brian Duncan cross. I hope he releases more for sale this year. It's less than 4 inches 10cm high. I'll measure it later
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One from me for today because tomorrow there will be blue sky for me to take good photos of my Narcissus'Candlepower' x asturiense
Mark that is a fine form you have there.
We also got that cross from Brian last autumn and the reverse cross and both are yellow.
Narcissus 'Candlepower' x asturiense is the front flower and Narcissus asturiense x 'Candlepower' at the back.
There are both nice and is little to choose between them as they are so similar.
It would be interesting to know what proportion of the seedlings are pale coloured like yours.
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It fades to cream
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This is mine from Brian. Also a couple of new ones of mine, (rupicola marvieri x cyclamineus) and (rupicola watieri x cyclamineus). Sometimes you wait three years to find nothing appears to have happened - the white one is supposed to be a cross between N albidus SF110 and Cedric Morris. I think not!
The last pic shows Narcissus 'Wavertree' on the left and 'Bowles early Sulphur' on the right. Wavertree is about 3" and BES about 4-5" at present.
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The weather forecast for today is wrong. No blue sky today but a nice grey one
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Narcissus bulbocodium x romieuxii in the bulb frame today after removing 2' of snow ::)
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Ian I going to Brian's in a couple of weeks and will have a rough count/survey
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I'll just get this one in before February turns into March. Narcissus 'February Gold' in the garden yesterday and roughly two weeks later than it was in 2008.
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It would be interesting to know what proportion of the seedlings are pale coloured like yours.
Ian,
The batch is just starting to flower outside now - I'll try to do a count and let you know but I think more than half of them come yellow. I hope they have some hybrid vigour and stay better than many clones of the species N. asturiensis which I find are what John Blanchard calls 'dwindlers' - I think they are programmed to reproduce by seed rather than vegetatively. After seeding the bulb seems to think it has performed its life function and just gradually fades away to make room for it's offspring! I have not yet sorted how to add photos to messages - maybe as well as I might be cramming up the whole system!!
Brian
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[I have not yet sorted how to add photos to messages - maybe as well as I might be cramming up the whole system!!
Brian
Brian, just click 'Additional Options' below the text window and 'Browse' as if adding an attachment to an email, ensuring the file is ~300kbts. For more (up to 10) click '(more attachments)'.
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Thanks Brian,
I also find certain Narcissus species often dwindle so lets hope some of the more recent hybrids between some of the dwarf species have hybrid vigour.
I find the original N. mimicycla a bit of a struggle to keep some years I congratulate myself at building up a reasonable number or bulbs only to loose most of them the following.
A numbers of years ago I back crossed it onto N. cyclamineus and the offspring are increasing well so far.
Brian you must learn to post pictures we need to see your Narcissus they would greatly enhance these pages and could never clutter them up.