Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Iris => Topic started by: art600 on January 01, 2009, 11:49:48 AM
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I have had a pot of Iris in bud now for more than two months. Even bringing it into the warm has not encouraged it to bloom. I was delighted to see another pot in flower - overlooked and unexpected.
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Lovely Arthur, do you know what it's called?
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David
No idea - perhaps someone on the Forum can name it. It is not a garden variety.
I grow it in a pot as it looks so delicate, but in reality it is as hard as old boots. :)
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Looks a bit like Iris bakeriana... but I am not certain.... I. bakeriana has leaves with an octagonal section, rather than a square cross-section, if that helps... ::)
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Looks a bit like Iris bakeriana... but I am not certain.... I. bakeriana has leaves with an octagonal section, rather than a square corss-section, if that helps... ::)
Maggi
I thought bakeriana, but the leaves are not round (8-sided)
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Yes, I thought they looked square in your photo, but it was worth a check.
I expect 2009 will see us all "worriting away" at plant IDs just as much as we have in 2008 and all the other years ...... as some of us tend to forget more and more, it will hardly be likely to get better! Never mind, so long as the eyes are good enough to enjoy the plants, I'm happy!
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Just had a quick look at what Brian Mathew has to say about the leaves of Iris bakeriana. "In its typical form from Turkey it is distinct from other species in having nearly cylindrical leaves which have eight ribs running along their length, instead of the usual quadrangular leaves of this group......"
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very, very nice.
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Its not entirely unlike the form called 'Clairette' but I think you have a nice un-named form of Iris reticulata.
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I think it is almost entirely unlike 'Clairette'!! ;D ;D ;D
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This is Potterton's 'Clairette'
http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=1313 (http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=1313)
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Can't help with the ID Arthur, but it surely is a looker ! 8)
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Arthur,
Maggi,
the pictures do not look like "Clairette".
Could it be clone "Halkis", originated from Mount Halkis in Turkey?
brgds
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It could not look less like Clairette.
It does bear a resemblance to 'Kuh-e Abr'. The falls are a different colour to 'Halkis'
I am just pleased that it continues to flower every year, and, with proper care may reward me with many more.
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Having just reviewed the old forum to look at Kuh-e Abr, I can see that this is not my Iris - the falls are blue, whereas mine are plum?
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Having just reviewed the old forum to look at Kuh-e Abr, I can see that this is not my Iris - the falls are blue, whereas mine are plum?
Arthur, yours is nothing like Kuh-e-Abr, which has sort of sky blue petals of quite a different shape
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Looks like bakeriana. Mine will be out soon for comparison.
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Looks like bakeriana. Mine will be out soon for comparison.
Does your bakeriana have a round stem or the more typical reticulate 4 sided stem? Mine is not round.
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Arthur maybe this is of help. Looking at the old Forum I found this picture
of Andrew:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/139/24790.html (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/139/24790.html)
Here is a picture of I. bakeriana cultivated in Holland.
It would be easier if these pages are under the same line as the other I. reticulata.
When I came back after searching around in my pictures I could not find the site under Iris, but found it under Bulbs General. ????
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I don't think it's remotely connected to I. bakeriana. To me is says a wild, collected form of reticulata. Perhaps Janis - when he's finished his glass of wine - is the person most likely to identify correctly, or just call it a most attractive form of I. reticulata. The leaves being taller than the flowers at bloom time suggests this too.
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The flowers in Arthur's picture are much paler that I. bakeriana and Arthur states that it is not a garden variety. Arthur, you do a lot of travelling, is this some seed that you have collected yourself in the wild? Whatever, you could just name it 'I. desirable'!
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I think it is almost entirely unlike 'Clairette'!! ;D ;D ;D
OK OK I take it back .... although I read somewhere that Clairette may have I bakeriana genes in it. There are some very different pictures on the web purporting to be Clairette!
Here (trying to help :-\) is a pic of Iris bakeriana as supplied by Miniature Bulbs ... it does look quite like a plant I grew under the name 'Clairette' a long time ago - honest!
Art - your plant looks like a wild form of I reticulata that I saw at Brian Mathews on a CG visit, again a while ago, so long that I dont have a digital pic to share, only a slide.
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Here is a picture of Iris ret. Clairette in the Connoisseur Collection, which should be the right one.
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'Clairette' is bakeriana x reticulata (in that order, I think, not VV). It is bluer that Tony's pic but not so blue as in Luit's. In between.
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It would be easier if these pages are under the same line as the other I. reticulata.
When I came back after searching around in my pictures I could not find the site under Iris, but found it under Bulbs General. ?
So it would, Luit..... I hadn't noticed which section it was in.... I will move it now.
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Thank you Maggi.
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Diane
Where did you acquire your Kuh-e Abr? It looks a good doer and I would like some in my front scree, where others flourish.
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Diane
Where did you acquire your Kuh-e Abr? It looks a good doer and I would like some in my front scree, where others flourish.
Rareplants.co.uk
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Hello,
art600, your Iris reminds me strongly of a reticulata-iris, that was previously shown by Dirk Schnabel (alias udo) in another Reticulata-thread here in the forum: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1194.210
I also think that it is the same species (or variety or whatsoever) as previously shown by Alan McMurtrie on his website under name Iris "Ameona" from Iran (see http://www.reticulatas.com/HTML%20Pages/species-2.html). Moreover Janis Ruksans shows a very similar looking Reticulata Iris in his Book "Buried Treasures" on plate 271, stating that it was found by Arnis Seisums in Iran.
Where does your Iris come from? I would not be surprised, if it came from Iran (Northwestern Iran, to be precisely: somewhere in the Zagros Mountains)
Since I am also interested in this fantastic looking gem, is there a chance to get seeds from you?
Kind Regards
Erwin
BTW: Janis Ruksans calls it "Iris reticulata var. kurdica"
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I also think that it is the same species (or variety or whatsoever) as previously shown by Alan McMurtrie on his website under name Iris "Ameona" from Iran
Erwin, I did see this picture too, but the falls(?) are much darker as in Arthur's picture.
The picture in the book looks more the same, but in Arthur's picture there is more blue in the falls.
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I share the 'not Clairette' view (sorry Tony G). Here's a pic from last year of what I am growing as Clairette.
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Winwen
I wish it would set seed.
Will try to tickle it - know where pollen is, but the style is another matter. ???
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Diane Where did you acquire your Kuh-e Abr? It looks a good doer and I would like some in my front scree, where others flourish.
Rareplants.co.uk
Anthony how did you know? you said that without me moving my mouse. I did have them from Paul Christian, but it is available from various Dutch traders.
Whilst browsing around looking at reticulate irises, I was reminded of Alan McMurtrie's amazing website
http://www.reticulatas.com/HTML%20Pages/index.html (http://www.reticulatas.com/HTML%20Pages/index.html)
If you've never been there, take a look
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Lvandelft,
I think the color of the standards and falls may be slightly variable.
While Arthur's falls seem to be "plum", falls of McMurtrie and Dirk (as well as Janis) are night-blue. The same goes with the standards, which vary from pure white to ice-white and further to very light blue.
Dirk has also published photos of other Reticulatas from Iran here, which seem to be "near" to his "Bazoft"-Iris, but have "plum"-colored falls and standards which are even more blue than those of your Iris (see: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1194.195).
I strongly believe, that all of these Irises are from Zagros-Mountains of Northwest-Iran and only represent slightly differing forms of the same iris (what species or variety ever this may be....).
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Winwen
I wish it would set seed.
Will try to tickle it - know where pollen is, but the style is another matter. ???
Arthur, we've had this "sex with an Iris" problem before! Here is the info you need, from a thread we've quoted before in the quest to ID your iris.....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/139/24790.html
Göte K. A. Svanholm
Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 5:36 pm:
The Style sits as always in the middle. The stigma is threeparted and coloured like a petal. You have an outer set of petals, the falls. You also have an inner set (nearly aborted in danfordiae) The standards. The stigma segments are those in the middle that lie upon the falls. The Pollen should be deposited on a kind of crest that sits on the underside where the outher part curves upwards.
The stamen lies in the tube formed by the fall and the stigma section.
An Iris flower is thus a kind of triple flower each with one stamen and one stigma ridge. Each pointing in a different direction.
A pollinating insect will try to get down the tube and will get pollen on its back and deposit it on the stigma of the next flower
There are further descriptions on that same page, which may help.
There is also a dissection of an Iris flower shown somewhere in old or new Forum pages, too ....but where? :-\
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Same thread Maggi - last post at the end of the page - you have to click the photo to see it though !
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Thanks, Luc! Very helpful....it's Andrew's photo... I'll repost it here, for convenience....
Left to right, petal - standard (going over), petal - fall, style arm (turned over) and stamen.
The bit that needs pollenating then is just below the V of the style arm.
[attach=1]
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Always blooming since before Christmas
Iris histrio aintabensis
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Very good form Dom !!
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Dom,
I comply with Luc.
Warming up my heart. :D
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Here's my Iris bakeriana today. I had one of those moments that occurs in a Hammer Christopher Lee vampire film: daylight rapidly diminishing before my eyes. No bloke with a hammer and stake and sleeping wench with soon-to-be-heaving bosom because bloke with said stake is too late. :P Heigh ho. Set the flash to bounce off the greenhouse roof.
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That is a super photo, Anthony.
Cannot make head nor tail of the rest.... you're getting as bad as Mark... what are you on about?....I can see that fading light = spooky=Hammer horror film.... but then it seems that your wench with the heaving bosom is already the victim..... no, I can't cope... I give up :P :(
I do like the Iris though... such elegant flowers.
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I'm pleased with the plant as last year I just had one flower. :)
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Very nice flowers and wonderful pic under the circumstances Anthony !! :D
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Very nice Anthony.
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My bulbs of 'Clairette' are rotten. I had a wee look because they weren't up.
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Don't say that, I haven't seen mine yet :( :( :(
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Here's my Iris bakeriana today.
Can you remember where you bought the bulb? The flowers are so elegant, and so unlike the 'garden' reticulate irises - I grow a lot of these and really like them, but the species are so much better.
Brilliant photo :)
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I agree with Art on this one Anthony - would also like to know where it came from. ;)
Thanks
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Anthony, I just can second this - brilliant photo of a really elegant and beautiful plant!
Here also the first of the Reticulates is in flower - Iris histrio, which was a gift of a friend, and who is also member of this great forum. 8) ;)
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My bulbs of 'Clairette' are rotten. I had a wee look because they weren't up.
Here's a pic of what my Iris reticulata 'Clairette' looked like on 29 January last year in my bulb bed and by comparison what that patch in the bulb bed looks like today. The green bits aren't shoots by the way, just loose leaves fallen from a nearby shrub. Is Clairette known to be 'miffy' or can I just put it down to all the wet we had in last years 'Summer'? I have to say that although there are shoots on my other pockets containing reticulate Irises I doubt if there is going to be much of a display this year :(
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mmmmm... your topdressing has changed colour David...
I must admit that I have also killed a lot of Retic's trying to grow them in the open out here...
I don't consider them as easy in our climate.. :-\
Can't tell yet what the result will be this year, as nothing is showing so far but this can hardly be a surprise after the hard frosts we had for 3 weeks or so.
Will keep you posted.
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Yes, it has Luc. The pink, a limestone gravel, was on special offer at the builders merchants I use for all my sand and gravel and as the retics like a bit of lime I couldn't miss a bargain.
All the books seem to say that the various Iris reticulata forms need a warm dry Summer rest to do well and they certainly didn't get that last year. It's a bit disappointing really since I constructed my bulb bed particularly for them. Maybe I should go back to growing them in pots?
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Here's one in a pot grown under my plastic covered frame. Iris hyrcana, this one from Dirk. Thank you Dirk.
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Here's my Iris bakeriana today.
Can you remember where you bought the bulb? The flowers are so elegant, and so unlike the 'garden' reticulate irises - I grow a lot of these and really like them, but the species are so much better.
Brilliant photo :)
I will have to check, but I think it was a generous gift? :)
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All the books seem to say that the various Iris reticulata forms need a warm dry Summer rest to do well and they certainly didn't get that last year. It's a bit disappointing really since I constructed my bulb bed particularly for them. Maybe I should go back to growing them in pots?
What about trying ( when you have re-stocked the losses :P) to give the bulb bed a bit of a cover through the summer... in the same way as many of us use a cover over some beds to protect from the worst of winter wet, you can do the same thing in summer. ???
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I follow a secret squirrel method for kolpakowskyana: usual gritty mix of JI3 and alpine grit plus crushed oyster shell in a small terracotta pot placed inside another the same size which is sunk into the plunge in the bulb house.
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Please forgive me for tagging a question in to this thread
Is Iris unguicularis cretensis easy to flower? I was looking for any sign of buds on mine today but there was nothing to see
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What about trying ( when you have re-stocked the losses :P) to give the bulb bed a bit of a cover through the summer... in the same way as many of us use a cover over some beds to protect from the worst of winter wet, you can do the same thing in summer. ???
Mmmm. Possible I suppose, but not an easy site to cover, pictured below before I planted it up. What would you use-polythene sheeting just weighted down with stones-I'm open to suggestions.
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Not so easy to rig something for that, David, but perhaps an adaptation of the polycarbonate covers Ian uses (over his stock bed plunge of Erythronium - while the're in flower to help pollination) would be workable? Doesn't need to be so high for your prupose, I reckon....
[attach=1]
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Please forgive me for tagging a question in to this thread
Is Iris unguicularis cretensis easy to flower? I was looking for any sign of buds on mine today but there was nothing to see
I think most of the unguicularies type Irises are a bit 'miffy' in the flowering department Mark. Does yours get plenty of sun in the Summer, because that helps enormously? A sprinkling of dolomite lime around the plant might help also. Failing all that if it doesn't flower next year I can recommend Iris lazica, it's similar and much easier to flower.
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Not so easy to rig something for that, David, but perhaps an adaptation of the polycarbonate covers Ian uses (over his stock bed plunge of Erythronium - while the're in flower to help pollination) would be workable? Doesn't need to be so high for your prupose, I reckon....
(Attachment Link)
Good idea that. How are the legs fixed to the polycarbon sheet, drilled and screwed through? Is it just an optical illusion that makes the cover look as though it is pitched (ie like a house roof) or is it just a flat sheet?
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I think most of the unguicularies type Irises are a bit 'miffy' in the flowering department Mark.
A good sunny spot in the summer and starvation works wonders. They flower better when clumped up and the roots are congested.
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Good idea that. How are the legs fixed to the polycarbon sheet, drilled and screwed through? Is it just an optical illusion that makes the cover look as though it is pitched (ie like a house roof) or is it just a flat sheet?
There is just a slight tilt to the west, to allow for run-off out of the plunge area. Polycarbonate sheeting ( offcuts from local conservatory supplier) are attached, in this instance, with threaded screw fixings with plastic "handles" that look like bow-ties ...through metal support and into washer and nut on top
Here is a section of the pic to show...
[attach=1]
Will get Ian to find me some better pix and I may be able to explain a bit more ....we have other systems for covering regularly shaped raised beds, too, which might be of interest..... not sure if Ian's had those in the BulbLog or not ???
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Thanks Maggi, I haven't seen them in the BulbLog, or at least I can't remember seeing them and I've read 'em all. Ian seems to have 'scrounging' bits and pieces off to a fine art ;D
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David, Ian is a master of primary recycling! 8) :D
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here is a better photo of the cover which I suggest may be of use to David to cover his iris to protect against summer wet....
[attach=1]
and a better closeup of the wing-nut type fixings.....
[attach=2]
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Michael and David's advice is good Mark. CRETE, remember? so lots of sunshine thought the year if possible and a good summer ripening. Wouldn't hurt to pull away dead leaves either to expose the rhizomes to sun. And some dolomite or lime. HAving said all that, it's not what I'd call FREE flowering but very nice and I'd certainly not discard it for lazica or any other, rather, add the other.
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here is a better photo of the cover which I suggest may be of use to David to cover his iris to protect against summer wet....
(Attachment Link)
and a better closeup of the wing-nut type fixings.....
(Attachment Link)
Many thanks Maggi.
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At the risk of controversy, 'miffy' irises (unguicularis or other) may be sick irises. I have lost some I unguicularis to virus in the past. No coincidence then that my best ever flowering clump was one raised from seed .... it has since declined. So(w) its back to the standard answer for miffy plants - keep raising new ones from seed.
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Here are a couple of pics of Iris histrioides var. sophenensis, a pretty little thing that came from Dirk. The stem hasn't elongated much and as this was grown under the cover of my plastic frame I may have kept it a little too dry.
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That is delightful David and yes, perhaps it was a little dry or it maybe just that it's a first effort in its new home. It looks very healthy. Incidentally, these little irises generally don't have a stem as such. The "apparent" stem is actually a slim tube. This is attached to what may eventually become the capsule full (we hope) of seeds and this capsule (ovary) has a tiny stem coming directly from the bulb.
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Thanks Lesley.
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Very nice little chap David !
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Here are a couple of pics of Iris histrioides var. sophenensis, a pretty little thing that came from Dirk. The stem hasn't elongated much and as this was grown under the cover of my plastic frame I may have kept it a little too dry.
David,
i become a new information to this Iris.
It is a unusual form from Iris reticulata,
not a Iris histrioides var.sophenensis.
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Sorry I wasnt following this thread. My plant is in a trough facing south west and gets full sun every day - when it shines
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Although I unguicularis ssp cretica requires a hot dry position forms from other areas grow in quite different circumstances. In Sw Turkey it grow in masses in the mountains on south facing hillsides that are cold and wet in the spring with running water although much drier in the summer. In the SE of Turkey in the Hatay I have found it growing as a woodland plant in deep shade.
here is an Iris reticulata jjmz32 from Iran
[attach=1]
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here is an Iris reticulata jjmz32 from Iran
This I think is the nearest match to the one with which I started this thread. Very nice :)
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here is an Iris reticulata jjmz32 from Iran
This I think is the nearest match to the one with which I started this thread. Very nice :)
It is very similar, isn't it?
To remind folks, here is one of Art's pix from the page 1 of this thread....
[attach=1]
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In another of Art's pix the colour is more like Tony's plant.....
[attach=1]
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Maggi is it not time to go to bed?
yes they are probably from the same place
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Art and Tony, those are lovely plants. Where in Iran was the seed collected?
Only cultivars here I'm afraid:
'Katherine Hodgkin'
'JS Dijt' supposedly but I'm doubtful :-\. Can anyone identify it?
seedling of unknown parentage
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I would suggest that the second of the (supposedly) J S Dijt is, in fact 'Harmony,' both from the colour and from the fact the leaves are quite short as it flowers. The pollen parent is I. histrioides 'Major,' so it has shorter leaves than straight reticulata. Is the 1st pic the same plant? Different colour but that could be the light at the angle of pic-taking.
If the 3rd is not 'Harmony' as well, I'd be thinking seedling of, but I think 'Harmony' may be sterile. Not sure.
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Ashley, I think it is Harmony too!
Here is Iris ret. J.S. Dijt:
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Ashley
I cannot say,I was given a few rice grain sized bulbs.
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Many thanks Lesley and Luit. Yes JS Dijt is far more reddish-purple than mine, and with a slightly different form. Pictures 3 & 4 are of the same plant; apparent difference is due to light angle as you say Lesley. The top view (pic 3) is close to the true colour, but it's quite distinct from that of the seedling (also fairly true colour; contrast Harmony in bottom right of picture).
What a beauty yours is Tony.
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Here are a couple of pics of Iris histrioides var. sophenensis, a pretty little thing that came from Dirk. The stem hasn't elongated much and as this was grown under the cover of my plastic frame I may have kept it a little too dry.
David,
i become a new information to this Iris.
It is a unusual form from Iris reticulata,
not a Iris histrioides var.sophenensis.
Thanks for the new information Dirk, I will re-label it. Still a very pretty form though.
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Here are a couple of mine from today in the greenhouse, iris histrioides 'Katharine Hodgkin' and Iris reticulata 'Harmony'.
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Nice plants David, and I like your 'studio' setting for clear pictures without background distraction 8)
If the colour of your 'Harmony' picture is true then it more-or-less matches my 'unknown seedling' (above) but certainly not the 'Not JS Dijt' ;) which is a much deeper blue-purple (best shown in my pic 3). So any other ideas about what this might be?
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Nice plants David, and I like your 'studio' setting for clear pictures without background distraction 8)
If the colour of your 'Harmony' picture is true then it more-or-less matches my 'unknown seedling' (above) but certainly not the 'Not JS Dijt' ;) which is a much deeper blue-purple (best shown in my pic 3). So any other ideas about what this might be?
Ashley, I found two matching this colour, I showed in the Connoisseur Coll. in April last year:
Pixie or Jeannine, but Pixie is more likely.
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Yes Luit, I agree that both are possibilities but think it's hard to say for sure, given the effect of light angle on colour reproduction. Your pic of Pixie (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1331.msg34197;topicseen#msg34197 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1331.msg34197;topicseen#msg34197) reply 61) seems less purple than my plant (pic 3), while the falls of Jeannine (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1331.msg32273;topicseen#msg32273 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1331.msg32273;topicseen#msg32273) reply 42) look darker than mine.
But what is certain is that your record of the Connoisseur Collection is a great resource for us all 8)
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Nice plants David, and I like your 'studio' setting for clear pictures without background distraction 8)
If the colour of your 'Harmony' picture is true then it more-or-less matches my 'unknown seedling' (above) but certainly not the 'Not JS Dijt' ;) which is a much deeper blue-purple (best shown in my pic 3). So any other ideas about what this might be?
Learning from Ian, Ashley. Ian uses a light grey sheet, others use a piece of card. I started off using a piece of card but it kept getting wet (and I dropped it a couple of times!) and then moved on to a piece of art board (a light wooden frame covered by some kind of material) used by watercolour and oil painters, and gave it three coats of light grey emulsion paint. It's much more stable, and washable.
My Harmony is fairly true to colour I would say.
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Art and Tony, those are lovely plants. Where in Iran was the seed collected?
Only cultivars here I'm afraid:
Ashley
I regret to say I did not make a note, or the details have been lost. Somewhere in the NW corner for sure.
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Somewhere in the NW corner for sure.
;D
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A couple of weeks ago I was thinking that my Iris reticulats in my bulb bed were not going to appear this year. Well, I was wrong. I was also wrong about 'Clairette' having disappeared altogether, she's on her way.
Iris histrioides 'Angel Tears' I had five flowers last year so I've lost a couple.
One from the greenhouse-Iris reticulata 'Alida'.
Iris reticulata 'Gordon' the remains from a batch of ten last year.
Iris reticulata 'J S Dijt'-was also a batch of ten last year.
Iris histrioides 'Katharine Hodgkin'. I remember Maggi telling me that KH is as tough as old boots, and so she has proved to be, again a batch of ten last year.
And finally, given a spot of good weather here is where iris reticulata 'Clairette' will be in a couple of weeks time.
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........ and here is iris histrioides 'Katharine Hodgkin' that I missed out in the post above. Twice as a matter of fact! ;D
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So not that bad after all David ! I see 9 emerging J.S. Dijt !
Despite your bad weather you're quite ahead of mine !!
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Luc, although we have had cold spells (and more frost this year than in the 20 other years we have been in Devon) I think you have had it much colder than us. My problem has been rain, and particularly so last Summer. Your time will come though.
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One for Arthur - a seedling of mine that is vaguely similar to his mystery Iris .....
This one came from Iran as seed through the AGS exchange. Collected by D Zschummel.
It is a beauty and so far virus free.
SOooo I will be keeping it away from the next offering which has 2 plants destined for the bin.
Ammended much later - the Iranian Iris is I bakeriana - it has 8 ribbed almost rounded leaves, a diagnostic feature for Iris bakeriana
Also the virused Iris have opened with perfect flowers while the apparently OK ones in the same pot have streaky flowers >:(
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Lovely retic. Tony, what's your seed sowing regime please? Pity about the Iris hyrcana though, was it from a company who have remained nameless??
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Exquisite Iranian Iris.... Herr Zschummel knows a good plant when he sees one..... seed from that source is always a gem, eh?
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Seed is sown when it arrives. Cold frame, no heat, standard free draining bulb compost. Wait .... same as all my bulbous seed really.
The iris was from a friend 2 years ago so the problem might be mine. However as this probably originated in the trade on the continent it could be the same stock that you might buy from anyone who imports bulbs. I think there are two healthy bulbs, I hope so anyway, so perhaps it is my problem. As with crocus I am having a no tolerance policy with anything which looks dodgy.
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Thanks Tony.
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That one is lovely Tony and quite different with the soft lavender colouring. Keep it close!
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Arthur, I hope you're looking at the "YES!!! The "I'm so happy" thread :)
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Exquisite Iranian Iris.... Herr Zschummel knows a good plant when he sees one..... seed from that source is always a gem, eh?
Maggi
Seed is generally collected without seeing the flower - so an even greater pleasure when you get one as nice as Tony's
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Arthur, I hope you're looking at the "YES!!! The "I'm so happy" thread :)
Lesley
It is one I look at ;)
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Exquisite Iranian Iris.... Herr Zschummel knows a good plant when he sees one..... seed from that source is always a gem, eh?
Maggi
Seed is generally collected without seeing the flower - so an even greater pleasure when you get one as nice as Tony's
Well, of course,few plants are in flower and fruit at the same time... which means it is a clever collector who chooses the best plant!
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Lovely retic. Tony, what's your seed sowing regime please? Pity about the Iris hyrcana though, was it from a company who have remained nameless??
I sow almost everthing as soon as I get it,either my own when ripe or others, in John Innes with extra grit and covered with grit. They just stand outside until they germinate or not.I look at them most days to see if I have any germination.Once they have germinated they usually get taken inside and be given tlc. However in this case i was given rice grain bulbils so it was love and attention from the start
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Alternative one visit the plants in flower and do the choices or even pollination to collect the seeds later.
Maybe not always possible but maybe sometimes?
This regarding nice plants from seeds and the selection of them.
All the best
Joakim
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The really clever people find a wonderful form in flower and it has one of last years seed pods still attached !
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The really clever people find a wonderful form in flower and it has one of last years seed pods still attached !
;D
Great pics of all!
Tony G - this plant of Mr Zschummel origin is great :D - Should really try to grow more of this section... ;D
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One from me :
1) Iris histrioides major - opening up yesterday
2) same - fully unfurled today
In reality a bit darker than my pictures show :-\
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Very nice Luc, I knew they would come eventually. Snow forecast for us in the early part of next week, you may get some too :(
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Very nice Luc, I knew they would come eventually. Snow forecast for us in the early part of next week, you may get some too :(
This one's inside David - and it's very fortunate - -4to -6 last night and the same forecasted for tonight again... and yes... snow anounced for next Monday... ::)
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Luc,
a good start. Garden ground here is still frozen - but many noses visible... :P
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From the greenhouse today Iris histrioides Lady Beatrix Stanley. The greenhouse thermometer was showing a lowest temperature of exactly freezing point but, in-spite of, at the moment, a sunny clear blue sky the wind is freezing cold and the soil in the garden is rock hard. Soon beat the retreat back into the warm.
I've been trying to grow LBS for the last three years with complete failure, so my one bulb will be cosseted in the greenhouse for some time.
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What no snow :o :o :o
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She's a very nice Lady David !! ;)
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Here's a couple that have spent the night in an un-heated bedroom (not ours!) to persuade them to open.
Iris reticulata 'Palm Spring' from Paul Christian's catalogue last year. In the catalogue he says "A new hybrid bred from Iris reticulata 'George'. Vibrant very rich, blue and deep indigo flowers with deeper falls intensying further around a lovely canary yellow crest with the finest flick of white......" Not a bad description really but my camera enhances the blue rather than indigo. Nice though.
The second is Iris reticulata var. bakeriana, maybe! from Miniature Bulbs last catalogue. In 'Buried Treasures' Janis says "........ and is characterised by whitish claws, and whose flowers are blue without a yellow ridge on the falls. The leaves of var. bakeriana have eight ribs in a section, but Iris reticulata typically has four ribbed leaves.....". Mine has a thin yellow crest, and though there is not a lot of leaf at the moment it strikes me as being four ribbed. Ah well, it's another pretty one and maybe this is Dutch raised stock and has got mixed up over the years.
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Nice David well done
Any chance to see both plants in one shot? To see the colour differences better. Both looks great even if they sometime not live up to our high expectations who but has not sometime failed to live up the expectations.
All the best
Joakim
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David - my I. r. 'George' was in bud, so I took it to draw and paint to our art group last Thursday, thought I'd do a couple of buds then wait for it to open to do some flowers too. I didn't have to wait long, the flowers opened before our very eyes, it wowed the art group, they were mesmerised by it. My George is a deep plum colour, nothing like the colour in the photo you posted. Here it is for comparison. Mine was purchased from Bob Potterton at the iris day held by the AGS.
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David,
your second Iris is never bakeriana, it is possibly I.histrioides or a cultivar from I.reticulata.
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Here's a couple that have spent the night in an un-heated bedroom (not ours!) to persuade them to open.
Iris reticulata 'Palm Spring' from Paul Christian's catalogue last year. In the catalogue he says "A new hybrid bred from Iris reticulata 'George'. Vibrant very rich, blue and deep indigo flowers with deeper falls intensying further around a lovely canary yellow crest with the finest flick of white......" Not a bad description really but my camera enhances the blue rather than indigo. Nice though.
David, Iris Palm Springs is a sport of George and by no means a hybrid.
It is registered as Palm Springs
It occurred about at the same time with two growers.
I saw it here first time with the raiser of George and he told me what happened.
He wanted to give it a name but then it was already registered.
They were shown Monday in Lisse as Palm Spring and we (hm) the Committtee complained
that the name was wrong. So now we know where P.C. has acquired his bulbs.
I showed already pics. in the old Forum in ? 2003 in Flowering now, when I just joined the Forum for the first time.
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Thanks for that Luit, later this evening I will search the Old Forum and try to find your post.
So you see Chris all kinds of differences can be shown in a sport.
Dirk, many thanks for confirming my suspicions on my 'alleged' Iris reticulata var. bakeriana. I am pretty certain that Alex also mentioned the same problem with his bulbs from the same supplier but I can't find the post.
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David, my Miniature Bulbs "bakeriana" is something else as well - leaves also 4 ribbed. At that price, I suppose you can't complain!
Alex
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Dirk is right, no way bakeriana. 'George' should be called I. histrioides (not reticulata) 'George' as the seed parent was histrioides ('Major' I think).
I'm interested in this "sport" thing with I. reticulata forms. How does this happen from a bulb? Is it a case of one of the offset babies coming up and flowering as a diferent colour? Otherwise, how?
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David, my Miniature Bulbs "bakeriana" is something else as well - leaves also 4 ribbed. At that price, I suppose you can't complain!
Alex
Yes Alex, so are mine. Did you make MB aware?
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You are quite right, Lesley, my bulbs are labelled I. h. 'George', mea culpa. But is the colour correct for the one I've shown? I realise that sports can bring forth new shades etc, but mine is a real red wine colour and having seen David's its very very different.
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Luit, is this the post you meant? February 10 2004.
Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 6:16 pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last year one of my first messages to the Forum was about a picture of Iris George by Sandy.
I was able to acquire some bulbs of the blue sport of Iris George. Iris Palm Springs now
started flowering in the glasshouse (outside the flowers become bigger)
I am afraid I have to remove one bulb out of the pot because it is sporting back to George
Later edit. I did a copy and paste on the above, including the pics that Luit posted but the pics didn't come out. Sorry!
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Yours is absolutely right for 'George' Chris. Rich plummy colour and very like histrioides in shape and size, with leaves just above the pot/ground surface at flowering.
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http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/1503.html will take you to Luit's pix!
Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 6:16 pm: as David quoted.
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I think Luit's first mention of the plant was in 2003, here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/443.html
Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 6:58 pm: pix there too
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Last year MB sent out something different as Iris bakeriana. It looked a lot closer to the real thing!
This is last years pic but they're just opening now and have increased nicely.
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.... and eight ribbed leaves too Tony? I had some from MB last year and lost them-such is life.
Maggi thanks for posting the Links to Luit's posts. How did you do that??
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Maggi thanks for posting the Links to Luit's posts. How did you do that??
I just copy and paste the link from the top of the browser page ( where the url of the page you are viewingis shown/where you would type a new www. address to go to another site) ....this is the link for THIS page
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=post;quote=73373;topic=2862.120;num_replies=134;sesc=2671238d306cca358589111c41a5dcbf
And this is the home page of the old Forum, for instance: http://www.srgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi?pg=topics 8)
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I think Luit's first mention of the plant was in 2003, here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/443.html
Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 6:58 pm: pix there too
Wow Maggi, on Ian's picture from Monday 10th, I see no difference. Just the glasses... ;D ;D ;D :-*
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Dirk is right, no way bakeriana. 'George' should be called I. histrioides (not reticulata) 'George' as the seed parent was histrioides ('Major' I think).
I'm interested in this "sport" think with I. reticulata forms. How does this happen from a bulb? Is it a case of one of the offset babies coming up and flowering as a diferent colour? Otherwise, how?
Lesley, I think those Iris hybrids with histrioides all propagate very fast. You are right with histrioides)!
Like Iris George, there was probably sometimes much demand for trade and the growers saved
every little grain to propagate and I believe sports will occur then more easy.
Strange enough both Iris George and Palm Springs are registered as I reticulata at KAVB.
But when I acquired Palm Springs in 2003 the breeder (finder) wrote I. histrioides on the label.
David, it is always possible that some of your bulbs will change back to George.
At least then you have the real George... ;D ;D
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I think Luit's first mention of the plant was in 2003, here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/443.html
Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 6:58 pm: pix there too
Wow Maggi, on Ian's picture from Monday 10th, I see no difference. Just the glasses... ;D ;D ;D :-*
I love you, Luit, you are a real gentleman! :-* So easy to see why you have such a good wife as Vroni! 8)
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Dirk is right, no way bakeriana. 'George' should be called I. histrioides (not reticulata) 'George' as the seed parent was histrioides ('Major' I think).
I'm interested in this "sport" think with I. reticulata forms. How does this happen from a bulb? Is it a case of one of the offset babies coming up and flowering as a diferent colour? Otherwise, how?
David, it is always possible that some of your bulbs will change back to George.
At least then you have the real George... ;D ;D
That would be buy one, get one free Luit, and I'm all for that.
Pic here of Maggi in 2003. You're right Luit, not a day over 25, then and now!
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David, it is always possible that some of your bulbs will change back to George.
At least then you have the real George... ;D ;D
Well that's an interesting question in itself. If a sport sports, and is apparently the same as the original, is it the "true" plant? I know it can happen with sports in perennial plants such as carnations and Campanula. I assume that a sport is genetically identical to its source? Yet how can it be identical when colour, form etc are produced from different genes? I mean, how can a red flower be genetically the same as a blue flower when red and blue are made from different genes?
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Didn't the chap standing next to Maggi used to be Sandy Leven? ;)
Edit by M.... Anthony, picture is BY ian, not OF Ian, if you read it!!
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That would be buy one, get one free Luit, and I'm all for that.
David I keep you on your word, even when you are a Yorkshireman ::) ::) ;D ;D
Do I maybe see you at the 2009 SRGC Discussion Weekend.
Note: It's a Weekend! Not on Wednesday .. ;D ;D ;D
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David, occasionally I get glimpses of why you have the good fortune to have Maureen in your life! ;)
I get the hint from Luit's comments that he and Vroni will come to the 2009 Discussion Weekend ??? .... that would be very good news indeed...... the more the merrier.... and the Nicholsons..... I think we might have a really big Forum Gathering!! 8)
In the big garden warehouse place today , B & Q, there were no snowdrops at all, but some little pots of un-named Iris reticulatas.... along with some Mucari and Narcissus, Anemone blanda and Tulips, ready to be planted out as "bedding".... so the label told me ..... this must be thelatest marketing ploy..... to catch those folks who did not buy their bulbs in Autumn.... quite good for the non-gardening gardener ( if you know what I mean) but a bit sad for us..... poor little bulbs, stuck in wee pots, no names, like sad orphans.. :'(
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Maggi,
there was some discussion of an extra day for Forumists.
Are there still any plans for that? Would make the decision a lot easier, going or not :-\
Still no Journal here in Holland.
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Maggi,
there was some discussion of an extra day for Forumists.
Are there still any plans for that? Would make the decision a lot easier, going or not :-\
Still no Journal here in Holland.
Yes, Luit, there was discussion about that.....I cannot for the life of me remember now what was said, to choose 2009 or 2010???....I will ask Ian tomorrow when he wakes up!
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David,
No, not made them aware, as I say at that proce I tend to chalk it up to experience! I also had some last year which I lost, they never really go going but this years seem very vigorous and are flowering wonderfully just now (whatever they are).
Alex
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Pic here of Maggi in 2003. You're right Luit, not a day over 25, then and now!
I've said it before and I need to say it again. Crawler!
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Pic here of Maggi in 2003. You're right Luit, not a day over 25, then and now!
I've said it before and I need to say it again. Crawler!
I know! ;D
I seem to think that Ian mentioned 2010 for a possible Forumist gathering at the Discussion Weekend?
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I seem to think that Ian mentioned 2010 for a possible Forumist gathering at the Discussion Weekend?
Can't wait ;)
but the trouble is, Maggi will have to find a very LARGE font and announce that its 605 days to go ;D
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Last year MB sent out something different as Iris bakeriana. It looked a lot closer to the real thing!
This is last years pic but they're just opening now and have increased nicely.
Tony , your photo looks very much like I. ret. 'Clairette' which I have grown for decades ,
it is an old I. ret. x bakeriana cross, and has 6-8 ribbed leaves ., and also similar to
the other cross I. ret. 'Springtime'
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Otto, Tony's bakeriana or Clairette doesn't look like my Clairette and I was assuired, last year, that my Clairette was not a 'ringer'. How does it compare with yours?
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If the colouring of the top pic is true, I'd be pretty sure it's bakeriana with 8 sided leaves. 'Clairette' and 'Springtime' with me never have 8 sides, usually 6-7. I honestly can't tell these two apart unless thet're in flower at the same time, which they never are here.
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Unless it is a trick of the light, Tony's plant has different coloured falls
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here is Iridodictyum kopetdaghensis .
I'm not sure it's a valid name but as Iris kopetdaghensis does allready exist (Juno ), it's difficult to get the same name for 2 different plants !
In fact, I think it should be considered as I. reticulata's form, from Kopet-Dag ???
Just flowering now in the bulb frame.
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/84/35/03/eos5dm16.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=405&u=11843503)
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/84/35/03/eos5dm17.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=406&u=11843503)
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Fred
A very nice Iris and exactly like mine - nice to have confirmation. :)
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It is indeed, very beautiful, but surely is (just) I. reticulata?
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If the colouring of the top pic is true, I'd be pretty sure it's bakeriana with 8 sided leaves. 'Clairette' and 'Springtime' with me never have 8 sides, usually 6-7. I honestly can't tell these two apart unless thet're in flower at the same time, which they never are here.
The colour in the top picture is almost completely true. I have checked the leaves and they are not exactly round but have 8 (ish - its difficult to tell with the hand lens which I cannot find :() ribs ie the are not 4 ribbed square like Iris reticulata.
Mathew in Smaller Bulbs says "The form in cultivation has whitish falls with a deep violet apex and conspicuous violet spots and blotches around the central ridge; the standards and style are bluish-lilac. ...... nearly cylindrical leaf with 8 ribs; all its relatives have 4 ribbed square sectioned leaves." He goes on to note variation in flower colour in wild populations in Iran.
I only doubt its validity because it was a real bargain at the price!!!! Also I would like the real Clairette to compare with it. I think you posted recently concurring with my idea that Clairette has bakeriana as a parent, so it might have 8 ribbed leaves.
David - sorry mate but you nice plant does not look to be the same thing. Perhaps yours is indeed Clairette but the blue in yours is quite different, at least in the pic. It would be nice to check the leaves but I gather it is too late :'(
Below is a close-up of the fall and the leaves of my putative Iris bakeriana. You can see 4 ribs in a side view of the leaves.
Rix and Phillips show a different plant in 'Bulbs'. I show it below. They note that it is a "commercial stock sold under the name of Iris bakeriana." It looks completely different but the leaves could well be right for I bakeriana. Two pages earlier they illustrate Clairette which looks exactly like my plant but with shorter leaves at flowering. Cannot see enough of the leaves to make a comparison.
On balance I think I have the plant that Rix and Phillips are calling Clairette :-\ :-\
The good thing is that it is beautiful, healthy and vigorous :)
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Here is Iris reticulata 'Halkis' named by Norman Stevens (Cambridge Bulbs) who collected the original from Mount Halkis, Turkey.
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I have Iris kolpakowskiana out at the moment, but it got wrecked by meeces, so it's not worth the pic. :'(
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This is one I like very much too David!
It has all the right proportions and colour combination.
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Oh well, if you insist? ::) My mouse eaten Iris kolpakowskiana.
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Oh well, if you insist? ::) My mouse eaten Iris kolpakowskiana.
Well, if I had a snake..... ::) ::) ;)
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Well Anthony, it's ALMOST lovely. A fine, healthy Oxalis you have there too. Pity the meeces don't dig and eat THOSE bulbs. ???
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'Halkis' is a good one David. No foliage at bloom time?
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A very nice one David !
Got it on my list of "wants" = "musts" for this year ! ;D
Good thing the mouse didn't get to the bulb of your kolpakowskiana Anthony ! :o When I look at the pricetag I've seen it at....
There's always next year ;)
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A fine, healthy Oxalis you have there too. Pity the meeces don't dig and eat THOSE bulbs. ???
Oh but they do Lesley, and spread them about the plunge. I have even had the oxalis (Bermuda buttercup) grow up through a pot because the bulb was in the plunge directly below the drainage hole. ::)
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Oh but they do Lesley, and spread them about the plunge. I have even had the oxalis (Bermuda buttercup) grow up through a pot because the bulb was in the plunge directly below the drainage hole. ::)
Oh hell!
You will have to teach the mice to eat EVERYTHING on their (oxalis) plates and not leave any to grow on elsewhere. :)
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Edit by M: This and some related posts have been moved here from a "Winter Trip- (Angelesey Abbey) and Cambridge Botanics Vist" thread...http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3064.0
Many thanks for these pics Brian, allowing us all to look over your shoulder 8)
Interesting that the Cambridge Iris bakeriana differs markedly from others shown here on the Forum - rather like 'Cantab' in fact :-\
Ashley I was most careful to take pictures of the labels as well as the Iris because of that, unfortunately it does not say anything about the acquisition on the label.
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Interesting that the Cambridge Iris bakeriana differs markedly from others shown here on the Forum - rather like 'Cantab' in fact :-\
Ashley I was most careful to take pictures of the labels as well as the Iris because of that, unfortunately it does not say anything about the acquisition on the label.
Hmmm - does anyone have a digipic of Cantab? This one does not look like my slide from 15 years ago. The two shown look very similar (look at the falls) and it may be that neither is correctly labelled :-\
Tony I would not be surprised if it was mislabelled as we were a little surprised by the state of some of the other plants, however that was the label it had -one of those nice black square jobbies with white printing :-\
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Referring to the earlier discussion about "Clairette" - this is what Leonid Bondarenko of http://www.litbulbgarden.com sells as Clairette.
http://www.litbulbgarden.com/home.php
''
My lovely variety with large flowers of I. bakeriana type.
''
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Luc, these are almost too beautiful.
What paint did you use? ;D ;D
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Interesting that the Cambridge Iris bakeriana differs markedly from others shown here on the Forum - rather like 'Cantab' in fact :-\
Ashley I was most careful to take pictures of the labels as well as the Iris because of that, unfortunately it does not say anything about the acquisition on the label.
Hmmm - does anyone have a digipic of Cantab? This one does not look like my slide from 15 years ago. The two shown look very similar (look at the falls) and it may be that neither is correctly labelled :-\
Tony I would not be surprised if it was mislabelled as we were a little surprised by the state of some of the other plants, however that was the label it had -one of those nice black square jobbies with white printing :-\
You might well be right Tony and Brian because neither plant at Cambridge Botanics fits descriptions on the Forum.
On the Old Forum John Forrest showed his I. bakeriana with 8-sided leaves (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/5457.html (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/5457.html), about quarter-way down the page), as well as Cantab (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/6250.html#POST4360 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/6250.html#POST4360)) that matches Lesleys (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/16023.html#POST8856 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/16023.html#POST8856)). Luit may well have posted reference examples from the Connisseur Collection last year but unfortunately I cant find them. Nevertheless Cantab seems to have pale falls & a yellow ridge (contrast the Cambridge plants).
Rafa gives the description: bakeriana Fos. Southern Turkey, northern Iraq, western Iran. 4-6" (10-15 cm). Standards and styles bluish lilac; falls white with deep blue tips, lines, and blotches. 2n=20 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/139/24790.html#POST13083 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/139/24790.html#POST13083)). No mention of yellow here (again, contrast the Cambridge plants). Other examples shown on that page have purple falls and lack yellow, like yours Tony (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2862.120 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2862.120)), but different to Johns with dark blue falls & yellow/orange ridge. So evidently there are at least two distinct forms of bakeriana - or three if the Cambridge plants are also correct.
Widespread mislabelling of reticulata cultivars & hybrids in the trade adds to confusion. All lovely plants though ;D
Maggi, before you are swept into that white-and-green vortex :o ;D kindly tell me whether its possible to hyperlink words rather than use messy URLs?
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That's a scrumptious bulb list, especially the irises and junos. A bit frustrating though, the download time for larger pictures.
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Leonid's 'Clairette' is absolutetly fabulous. 8)
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Leonid's 'Clairette' is absolutetly fabulous. 8)
Leave some for me when you send in your order Anthony... ;)
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On the Old Forum John Forrest showed his I. bakeriana with 8-sided leaves (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/5457.html (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/5457.html), about quarter-way down the page), as well as Cantab (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/6250.html#POST4360 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/6250.html#POST4360)) that matches Lesleys (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/16023.html#POST8856 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/16023.html#POST8856)). Luit may well have posted reference examples from the Connisseur Collection last year but unfortunately I cant find them. Nevertheless Cantab seems to have pale falls & a yellow ridge (contrast the Cambridge plants).
Rafa gives the description: bakeriana Fos. Southern Turkey, northern Iraq, western Iran. 4-6" (10-15 cm). Standards and styles bluish lilac; falls white with deep blue tips, lines, and blotches. 2n=20 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/139/24790.html#POST13083 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/139/24790.html#POST13083)). No mention of yellow here (again, contrast the Cambridge plants). Other examples shown on that page have purple falls and lack yellow, like yours Tony (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2862.120 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2862.120)), but different to Johns with dark blue falls & yellow/orange ridge. So evidently there are at least two distinct forms of bakeriana - or three if the Cambridge plants are also correct.
GOLD medal for you Ashley :)
I had a feeling we'd been here before but I did not recall the details. The Cantab is exactly as I remember it. The I bakeriana looks a bit like the plant in Rix & Phillips and Johns comments about its (relative lack of) vigour are significant in distinguising it from the vigorous 'Clairette'
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Pics here from last year of my Cantab and Clairette. I contacted Alan McMurtrie about Iris bakeriana and will post his reply and picture later.
Maggi, would it make sense to add replies 26, 31, 42, and this one to the Reticulata Irises 2009 thread in order to keep all the information together? Don't want to cause you extra work.
edit by M : done, David!
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To see if I could further our discussion on Iris bakeriana or not I thought I would drop Alan McMurtrie an Email as he has probably forgotten more about Iris reticulatas than most of us will ever learn-here is his reply.
"Unfortunately my main pictures of bakeriana are slides. Potentially I'll one day get a slide scanner and digitize
the slides.
I collected bakeriana near Marden, Turkey in 1985. It wasn't in bloom
at the time but did subsequently bloom here.
A key identification to bakeriana is its eight sided leaves. The
eight sides are all equally spaced giving a nice octagon cross section.
I know 'Gordon' has sometimes been sold as bakeriana. Its leaves may
have eight ribs but the leaf cross-section is not octagon. It's
rectangular.
On my web site you can see pictures of a form of bakeriana that I got
from Igor Minjariz (see the 'species - 2' page). I refer to it as
"bakeriana Igor." It's not a named form; that's just my way of
identifying one form from another.
The bakerianas I know don't have a coloured ridge stripe.
Of course one really needs to go into the wild and travel all around
to truly see whether there is much variation in bakeriana. Mathew's
'The Iris' suggests there are possibly forms in Iran with yellow
ridges. The question though is are they really bakeriana? I don't
believe these plants currently exist in cultivation. In truth
cytological studies of the bulbs would need to be done.
There is a possibility that bakeriana is just a form of Iris
reticulata (i.e. that eight sided leaves is just a minor variation in
the big scheme of things)."
Here is the picture Alan referred to in his fifth paragraph.
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A few pictures today from my very disappointing bulb bed.
Iris reticulat 'Edward' which was 15 bulbs last year.
Iris reticulata 'Gordon' - 10 bulbs last year.
My patch of Iris danfordiae was ten bulbs last year, and having read the books (me that is, the bulbs obviously didn't!) I planted them very deep in order that they didn't break down into rice. Ł100 for all you spot ;D
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David
My danfordiae have not shown yet - have not given up hope yet
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David, Alan McMurtrie's Iris bakeriana is sumptuous. This and 'Clairette' are two I will make a note of.
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The deeper you plant I. danfordiae, the later it will come up. Will you still be offering 100GBP in a couple of weeks? ;D
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I have just been out and taken these two pictures of Iris danfordiae especially for David ;)
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David
Thanks for contacting Alan M. all very interesting and informative. From the picture you posted of Iris bakeriana it is easy to see that Clairette has this as a parent. Overall colour and falls markings are quite similar.
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Last year MB sent out something different as Iris bakeriana. It looked a lot closer to the real thing!
This is last years pic but they're just opening now and have increased nicely.
Tony , your photo looks very much like I. ret. 'Clairette' which I have grown for decades ,
it is an old I. ret. x bakeriana cross, and has 6-8 ribbed leaves ., and also similar to
the other cross I. ret. 'Springtime'
Otto, I hope you still following this thread. Do you have a picture please of the Iris retic. 'Clairette' that you are growing?
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I have just been out and taken these two pictures of Iris danfordiae especially for David ;)
Thanks David. Are you, by any chance, offering Ł100 to anyone spotting Iris danfordiae in one of your pots? :P
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Thanks from me David, for the lower picture at least. Mine (bought last year) looked like that last spring, 6 months ago. I tipped out the pots the other day thinking to plant them in the garden and found them there OK but inside each tunic were 5 or 6 tiny, thin slivers of bulb material. I don't expect any flowers this coming spring.
I bought 2 new packets of 5 each on Friday and of the 10 bulbs, only 1 wasn't already split in half. These are recently imported from Holland, where they have been held out of the ground since the northern summer, and they have virtually no substance at all. Not only that, they are all side bulbs, rounded one side, flattened on the other. Dead loss really, I should have had more sense. >:(
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Lesley, if you are refering to my post (one David too many, I know) then remember that this picture was taken at about 8.30 in the morning and that the pots have been under fleece in freezing temperatures for a week. I would hope, and expect, that with some warmer weather and sunshine they will open up properly. The danfordiae in the smaller pot are bulbs bought three years ago and regular flowerers.
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Photos just in from Jim Kee in Delaware of his two forms of Iris histrio
first a clump, then a closeup of one from that clump, then thirdly, the second form......
click the pix to enlarge!
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Wow :o 8) 8)
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Yes it was your post David (S) but I wasn't referring to the fact they were closed up but that you had a good flowering at all, as I did last year but certainly won't this year.
Talking of fleece, I'll be able to show Forumists a new family member in a few days.
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Somebody been at the sheep again Lesley? ::) ;D
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I rescued this little Iris reticulata from my frame this morning whilst it was being subjected to a thorough seeing too from two bumble bees, and judging by the state of the flower it had been going on for some time. This is one I got from Dirk and I am not sure if he was simply noting that it was collected from Sewan Lake, or if he had named it as such.
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Be patient Anthony :)
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I am re-posting the pic below. It appeared about 3 weeks ago as Iris reticulata from seed collected in Iran. Belatedly examining the leaves I now note it has almost round eight ribbed leaves .... So it must be the recently discussed Iris bakeriana :o :D This may also help to settle the matter of the imposter I bakeriana(s) - I am now happy that I grow both pure I bakeriana and 'Clairette' a bakeriana hybrid. Now I await the next flowering of Iris bakeriana seedlings in the hope that next year I will have 2 or more clones and can get seed to share around.
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And very beautiful it is Tony. The colour is as I remember my original bakeriana from 40+ years ago ??? but I'm sure it didn't have the orange signal stripe. These litle irises must vary quite a lot in the wild, not surprizing when their habitat area is so large, but every one is a lovely thing. Is it scented? Many forms are.
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Mistery solved then Tony... and positively so !
I agree with Lesley - it's a wonderful form !
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Thanks Tony and David, just popped in from Galanthus corner to see what's happening in the real world!
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You still look a little pale Brian... ;D ;)
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So it must be the recently discussed Iris bakeriana :o :D This may also help to settle the matter of the imposter I bakeriana(s) - I am now happy that I grow both pure I bakeriana and 'Clairette' a bakeriana hybrid.
Comparison with Alan McMurtrie's form recently posted by David shows how extremely variable I. bakeriana must be.
Then is an 8-sided leaf the key distinguishing characteristic for this 'species'?
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Some reticulata iris cultivars and hybrids from the bulb frame. Also one which is from an unlabelled pip growing outside - post vole attack- we think it might be a sophensis x danfordiae hybrid but are not sure which one.
Iris 'Halkis', 'Bold and Beautiful', 'Palm Springs', 'Velvet Smile', sophensis hybrid and 'Lady Beatrix Stanley'
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Wow ! Very good start mr Sinchets !
Love the sophenensis hybrid !
(When do you plan to issue your first list ?? ;D )
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Comparison with Alan McMurtrie's form recently posted by David shows how extremely variable I. bakeriana must be.
Then is an 8-sided leaf the key distinguishing characteristic for this 'species'?
Yes. If it has less that 8 but more than 4 it is a hybrid between bakeriana and reticulata - or vice versa. :)
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Thanks Lesley. Frankly I'm amazed that Tony's and Alan's plants could be considered the same species :-\
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I think the question of Iris bakeriana (or not!) has some strong similarities with the plight of the Oozlum bird which was renowned for flying round in ever decreasing circles before finally disappearing up it's own orifice ;D
In Reply 178 on 13 February I posted a reply to my Email from Alan McMurtrie. In his reply Alan said "The bakerianas I know don't have a coloured ridge stripe"
In "Buried Treasures" Page 331 Janis says "..... it is not iris reticulata var. bakeriana (syn. I. bakeriana) which grows in Turkey and adjacent Iran and Iraq and is characterised by whitish claws, and whose flowers are blue and WITHOUT A YELLOW RIDGE ON THE FALLS"
In "The Iris" Brian Mathew suggests that there are forms (of bakeriana) in Iraq with a yellow ridge on the falls but Alan McMurtrie questions whether these are actually bakeriana at all.
Confusing ain't it?
My view, and God only knows I'm not really expert enough to have one, is that Tony has a very nice hybrid between Iris reticulata and Iris bakeriana which has taken it's leaf structure from the latter and it's ridge colour from the former.
Good job they don't have little green marks as well! ;D
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After all that pontificating I forgot to congratulate our new friend Sinchets (do we really have to call you that?) on a lovely display of little Irises.
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Good job they don't have little green marks as well!
::)
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After all that pontificating I forgot to congratulate our new friend Sinchets (do we really have to call you that?) on a lovely display of little Irises.
Well Simon will do. Sinchets is the name for Scilla bifolia- or often anyother blue flowering spring plant.
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I think the question of Iris bakeriana (or not!)
Confusing ain't it?
.... a very nice hybrid between Iris reticulata and Iris bakeriana which has taken it's leaf structure from the latter and it's ridge colour from the former.
Possibly but this was from wild collected seed so hybridisation is less likely than if it was seed from cultivated plants. We clearly have only a snapshot not the big picture. I recently saw some images of Iris reticulata taken by Michael Kammerlander. The variation in the flowers was incredible, even more so than that on Alan Macmurtie's site. I don't think that flower colour/markings is the best way to tell the species apart. The leaf structure seems less variable BUT I would give credence to the idea that we may be dealing with one very variable species - we just need to see more bits of the jigsaw ;)
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Bold and Beautiful and Palm Springs are very nice. Where was the source?
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'Bold and Beautiful' was from Janis and 'Palm Springs' was from a rare plants weboffer last autumn- we are amazed at how large the flower is ;)
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Just a few of the reticulata iris flowering just now in the greenhouse and in the garden.
Iris 'Lady Beatrix Stanley'
Iris hyrcana
Iris 'Clairette'
Iris 'George'
Iris query
Can anyone help with this last? It is very similar to 'George' but there are some important differences in character. Both are established plantings of bulbs but the query started flowering two weeks before George. As you can see George has formed a solid clump and probably needs dividing this summer. The query was planted as three bulbs several years ago and has multiplied very little since then. The picture is of one bulb only.
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Are you quite sure it is not some more 'George' David? It has the chunky look of a histrioides form/hybrid and there seems to be little if any foliage present at flowering, so not likely a form of reticulata. Perhaps the soil for the query was a degree or so warmer?
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Very nice collection David !
An impressive group of I "George" - needs thinning I would say... ;)
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I am very pleased that I bought this un-named seedling selection last summer.
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I'm not surprised, Pete, it is very nice ...... never met one I didn't like :D
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That really does have a fantastically dark fall :P
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Here are a couple of retics I have in flower at present
'Lovely Liza'
'Pixie'
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Two good ones Art !
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I thought so ;D
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Another in bloom at present - thanks Dirk
Iris reticulata 'Lake Sewan'
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Hi Pete I wonder if you got your Iris from the same source came to me as reticulata seedling no. 99/103 ex Miniature bulbs.
Now flowering in the garden also
Lady Beatrice Stanley yes she was a busy lady a snowdrop as well
and a couple of named reticulatas ( a close up of one) that are spreading slowly in the garden. Not sure of the names any ideas? and finally Winogradowii just starting into flower
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Nice little selection Ian - I love that unnamed seedling !
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....................Iris query
Can anyone help with this last? It is very similar to 'George' but there are some important differences in character. Both are established plantings of bulbs but the query started flowering two weeks before George. As you can see George has formed a solid clump and probably needs dividing this summer. The query was planted as three bulbs several years ago and has multiplied very little since then. The picture is of one bulb only.
Two that come to mind David, 'Purple Gem' or 'Pauline'. Here are pictures of both from last year, they didn't over-summer very well for me and I finshed up with very small bulbs for this year.
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Both these have finer petal parts than 'George' and are taller at bloom time. 'George' flowers earlier than the other two.
Ian, your 3 and 4 look pretty much like 'Harmony' which is ret x histrioides.
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Does anyone else have problems growing Iris reticulata 'Kuh-e-Abr' or is it just me? I bought three bulbs in 2006, kept them outside and lost them; bought three more in 2007, kept them in the greenhouse and lost them; bought three more in 2008 and managed to get one flower-no sign at all of shoots from the other two.
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Does anyone else have problems growing Iris reticulata 'Kuh-e-Abr' or is it just me? I bought three bulbs in 2006, kept them outside and lost them; bought three more in 2007, kept them in the greenhouse and lost them; bought three more in 2008 and managed to get one flower-no sign at all of shoots from the other two.
Where did you buy it from? Mine was from Rareplants. It seems to be bulking up well and set seed last year. Maybe mine isn't the real McCoy. ;)
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Simon, same supplier, maybe it's my fault I usually grow in 9cm rigid plastic pots so maybe it was too wet.
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Ours have only ever been outside in a bulbframe seriously baked in summer- They were just coming up last week and when this ****** snow goes we should be able to photo them!
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Well, I am rather paranoid about virus, especially Iris virus but I am seeing streaks on the standards, David, so I'd guess that's why you are having problems..... :P
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Well, I am rather paranoid about virus, especially Iris virus but I am seeing streaks on the standards, David, so I'd guess that's why you are having problems..... :P
Mmmmm!! I'm not sure Maggi. The light was particularly bright when I took the picture and reflected back from my background card made the standards appear almost transparent. I had a look at the plant again today, a dark and dank day, and it appeared a much darker shade of blue with no trace of veining showing. I will keep it (hopefully!) another year and see how it looks.
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I managed to flower it three years in a row, but it's just leaves this year. I have posted pics in former years.
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Here are Iris reticulata 'Harmony' from the greenhouse, and I. reticulata 'Cantab' from my bulb bed.
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Cantab seems to have done well despite the lousy Summer David ! :D
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A monthy ago I posted a pic of Iris reticulata shoots some of which showed signs of virus. Now the potful is in flower and all the plants have streaky flowers. They are not living with the other irises any more and after I have chcked for seed set I will be burning them.
To lighten the mood I append a pic of a nice form of Iris reticulata from Armenia. (Thanks Zhirair)
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And finally for this year! (at least on the reticulate iris front!)
A week ago this pot of Iris histrio burst into flower. I had hoped to take them to Harlow AGS show tomorrow but today they are going over :(
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Cantab seems to have done well despite the lousy Summer David ! :D
Yes Luc, it hasn't done badly at all. I noticed from my files I pictured it last year on 27 January 2008 so guess it chose to sleep on a while this year-don't blame it at all ;D
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The Armenian Iris is a stunner Tony. Pity about you potential card winners you obviously didn't tell them when you wanted them to flower!
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Tony,
Very pleased to see that our native iris reticulata form does well in your collection. This is more common form here in our region. During last years I also managed to find some rare colour varitions.The most valuable ones are clear white and white with slight blue overlay forms. I intend to multiply them to introduce in culture and share with other bulb enthusiasts.
And many thanks to you for photos of virused irises. You know anything related with virus is in the framework of my great interest.
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Tony
Fantastic potfull of I histrio,
Bravo.
By the way do you feed your reticulata?
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Hi there,
Yup those histrios are super!
Got into the bulb frame today after celaring the snow to find I. reticulata 'Velvet Smile', now at it's best and what I think is I.reticulata 'Pixie', but if anyone has another take please say, the Blackbirds threw my labels away so not 100% sure! :D
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Iris 'Katherine Hodgkin' really is an amazing increaser in the open garden. In diferent locations, some more shady than others, you can extend their season over a few weeks, rather than a few days :)
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If you want to push the boat out try Janis's danfordiae x sophensis hybrids- amazing colour combinations!
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Tony
Fantastic potfull of I histrio,
Bravo.
By the way do you feed your reticulata?
Thanks!
Only with the standard high potash liquid feed in spring or using Ian Youngs sprinkle it on and water in approach.
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Ours have only ever been outside in a bulbframe seriously baked in summer- They were just coming up last week and when this ****** snow goes we should be able to photo them!
We dug the snow off the bulb frame yesterday, and today the Iris reticulata 'Kuh-e-Abr' opened. :)
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Some reticulata irises flowering now. Katherine Hodgkin is in the garden, the others in pots in the cold frame.I bought 'Alida' and 'Sheila Ann Germaney' in bud at Dunblane last Saturday.
Iris Halkis - aren't the buds attractive.
Iris Alida
Iris 'Sheila Ann Germaney'
Iris 'Katharine Hodgkin'
Iris 'Natascha' third year flowering. Iris reticulata don't usually do so well for me.
Iris winogradowii, bought last year, one bulb with one flower. This year, two bulbs with three flowers.
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Splendid selection Roma - I agree on Halkis - it looks superb !
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A lovely sight for the southerners still months away from spring, and winter to come soon. :'(
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some pictures more : Iris reticulata 'Kuh-e-Abr' for at least the third time in this post ;), Iris bakeriana and Iris danfordiae BATM-357
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some pictures more : Iris reticulata 'Kuh-e-Abr' for at least the third time in this post ;), Iris bakeriana and Iris danfordiae BATM-357
...... and it looks like the 'real' Iris bakeriana too ;D
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some pictures more : Iris reticulata 'Kuh-e-Abr' for at least the third time in this post ;), Iris bakeriana and Iris danfordiae BATM-357
...... and it looks like the 'real' Iris bakeriana too ;D
Umm I think :) :) :) it looks like Clairette, the trade bakeriana ?hybrid;) :-X
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;D ;D
It's the 'ever decreasing circles' syndrome Tony-I spotted that it didn't have a yellow ridge.
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Assuming the leaves have 8 sides, I'd definitely go for straight bakeriana. 'Clairette' doesn't have purple on the falls. It's really blue.
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Just a reminder of Paul's pic in the Wisley log... http://www.srgc.org.uk/wisley/2008/170108/log.html
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Formidable opposition Tony?
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Another reminder.....http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/139/24790.html
Confused.... again?.... Yes, I am. This is like "groundhog day".
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I am not confused (for a change ;))
Sue Gills plant in the forum post is Clairette, same as my cheaply bought 'bakeriana' This has 8 ribbed leaves but they are not round/octagon shaped, they have roundish look to them which is put into context when you have true bakeriana (dangerous word, true!) which has 8 ribbed leaves, evenly spaced ribs giving a round/octagon cross section. My seedlings from seed collected in Iran match this description perfectly.
Pauls Wisley plant is not Clairette and may well be I bakeriana. The pic is a bit fuzzy and I cannot really see detail on leaves. However, like mine his bakeriana has a yellow mark on the falls.
End of Sermon :D
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Here are Iris Iris histrioides Michael and Iris histrioides Angel Tears from my bulb bed. Thanks Udo
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What a wonderful blue Iris histrioides' Michael ' is! I think I must love your bulb bed almost as much as your meadow, Franz :D
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Absolutely! I must see if I can persuede our local importing wholesalers to bring in these as well as reticulata forms. Probably a lost cause and if it happens they'll all turn out to be 'Harmony.' :'( >:(
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Another Iris reticulata. This one raised from seed collected by Jorg Lebsa. No location details published in AGS seedlist but perhaps someone can help me find out ???
It proved difficult to photograph as it really is as dark in colour as it looks. The camera kept adjusting for the background, perhaps I should shoot in a darkened room ;D. Its also quite small by comparison with most of the other forms I grow. The paler plant for comparison is my Armenian form which is not a true blue itself but looks blue next to this dark plum coloured form.
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Hard to catch that dark colour, Tony, but I can see enough to think it lovely ... dinky creature!
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Another Iris reticulata. This one raised from seed collected by Jorg Lesba. No location details published in AGS seedlist but perhaps someone can help me find out ???
Of course I can, if the information is available. Which seed list did it come from, Tony?
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A real eye-catcher Tony ! Terrrriffic colour ! ;D
Love your histrio's Franz !
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Another Iris reticulata. This one raised from seed collected by Jorg Lesba. No location details published in AGS seedlist but perhaps someone can help me find out ???
Of course, if the information is available. Which seed list did it come from, Tony?
AGS list 2000/2001 seed sown Dec 2000. Hard to believe I cannot recall it fowering before. Patience is a virtue!
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Tony,
the correct name is Jörg Lebsa.
This Iris have a phantastic colour.
Here my Iris bakeriana from Iran.
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Lovely colour Tony.
Nice bakeriana Dirk, and with a yellow ridge too!
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AGS list 2000/2001 seed sown Dec 2000. Hard to believe I cannot recall it fowering before. Patience is a virtue!
Unfortunately, this is the year before I took on the seed job, so I don't have the information, but maybe I know someone who does ;)
I'll look into it.
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Here is a better picture in the early morning light.
Iris reticulata seed raised. Seed collected by Jorg Lebsa.
Dirk - is he a friend of yours? I think I may have met him in the UK a few years ago.
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Tony,
Jörg is not a friend from me, but he live also in Sachsen.
Here a other purple Iris reticulata from NO-Iran.
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All the plae blues flowering now, 'Katherine Hodgkin' is just coming into flower outside in the rock garden, a few now, but by the dozen later.
I thought I had lost 'Sheila Ann Germaney' to the voles but she has appeared, about ten flowers spread around the rock garden beds.
The last iris turned up in a patch of miscallaneous bulbs rescued from a vole 'food storage' area, I'm thinking histrioides or histrioides major which I know I had!
Any help with id of last iris greatly appreciated!
Hristo
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I'm in something of a quandry with this one. Firstly it's in a part of the garden where I have never planted Iris reticula forms (or at least don't remember doing so). Secondly I would not have planted just one. Although it looks blue on the picture it is really a purpleish colour that my camera doesn't seem to pick up and I have added a picture from last year or 'JS Dijt' which best represents the colour of my quandry. The part of the garden where the quandry has appeared is where I have my Dutch Irises and I have used re-cycled bulb potting compost to improve the soil in that area . Any views folks?
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Hi David,
I had a plant in the UK with this form and the colour you describe, it was a Garden Centre purchase under the species name Iris reticulata, no cultivar name attached.
I've attached my old pic, sorry for the quality and colour drift, it was taken with an early model digital camera.
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Hi Chris, oddly enough your pic better represents the colour of my plant.
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Hi Chris, oddly enough your pic better represents the colour of my plant.
'JS Dijt' is violet, isn't it ?
Moreover, I would be pleased to know : is 'JS Dijt' an hybrid, or only a selection of the "true" species I. reticulata ?
Finally, has somebody the new description of Iris zagrica ?
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Hi anyone,
I chuck this out here as an idea, here is a photo ID page based on the iris reticulata cultivers I have / have had and what I think they are / were!
I am aware this is probably an idea of limited use beacuse of the colour differences between cameras etc!
It might be an idea if anyone who has a few cultivars produced such a page, pages could then be compared and maybe we can thrash out what's what? ( maybe this exists somewhere and I am unaware of it - please tell me :'( )
I have incuded the more commonly available cultivars and have ignored the sophensis hybrids as I guess they have not been confused by years of cultivation!
From top left working right and down;
harmony - JS Dijt - cantab
gordon - purple gem - edward
george - pixie - histrioides
histrio - katherine Hodgkin - Sheila anne germany
Beatrix Stanley - marquette - kuh - e - abhr abr
Feel free to dissagree and make suggestions!
[attach=1]
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David and Hristo, your pics look like the "old" I reticulata, as was available many years ago before named forms became available. However, it is probably a (Dutch) nursery selection from a collection from way back as I remember reading somewhere that although it is the "true" reticulata (i.e. original reticulata of commerce,) it has never been found in the wild. That seems unlikely as someone must have found it in the first place and in numbers.
It is the same, visually, as 'Violet Beauty' but a little smaller in the bloom than that form. The leaves are very long at flowering time so that in a good clump, the flowers are not hidden, but somewhat pushed around by the foliage.
'J S Dijt' is a plummy, red/purple rather than violet, the standards quite light (puce) and the falls dark and velvety and each fall with an orangey/yellow ridge. It is a selection from I. reticulata, not a hybrid.
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David, notice that your quandry one is a lot finer (thinner) in the flower parts than 'J S Dijt' which is a robust form with wide standards and falls, in comparison.
Chris, as far as I know them, yours are right except that I 've never seen the Kuh-e-abhr or 'Marquette' so couldn't give an opinion about those. Your 'Marquette' looks just like 'Springtime' and 'Clairette.'
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Lesley
Kuh - e -abhr is a fairly new cultivar, 'Marquette' is absolutely cut from the same cloth as 'Springtime' and 'Clairette', all very similar looking.
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I showed in the Weekly Flowershow Lisse this week some of Alan McMurtrie reticulata seedlings.
It's probably good to show them on these pages too (for those who missed them)
Iris 87-BB-1 a
Iris 87-BB-1 b
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Hristo,
thanks for the reticulata collage! This realy helps to place the various cultivars and understand their differences. For my computer, the colours are right on. What camera do you use?
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Hi Jamie,
Glad you found it useful, I am hoping others might want to add to it as there are quite a few of the more common cultivars missing!
I use a Fuji finepix S5600 5.1 mega pixel and rarely a Yakumo ( Praktika ) 5 mega pixel camera, some of the pics were taken with an old Fuji finepix 1.2 mega pixels camera.
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You've done a fine job Chris. I haven't had time yet to look in detail but I think I have at least a couple to add.
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David, that would be cracking!
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Thanks Hristo, those retics all on one page are really useful for comparison.
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Chris, can I query please, was it your intention to add other pics to your montage (ie from other Forumists plants)?
Can I also query your spelling please of Kuh-E-Abhr I have it as Kuh-E-Abr and that is the spelling used in The Rare Plants Catalogue.
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I do like the McMurtrie retics. That dusty shade of violet is very attractive to me. Something to look forward to :)
Luit, your Weekly has disappeared off my notified list. I'll go looking again.
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I do like the McMurtrie retics. That dusty shade of violet is very attractive to me. Something to look forward to :)
Luit, your Weekly has disappeared off my notified list. I'll go looking again.
Not guilty Lesley ;)
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I'm not accusing you Luit. Far from it. My system has had a few glitches over recent weeks and I've mislain several regular topics. Nor can I find it in the Forum index. A Search for Weekly Lisse Flower Show has also been unproductive. Can you give me a link please?
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David,
You are quite right of course, I'm afarid when I am in the 'zone' I forget to check my spelling! ;D
Of course for a while i thought this clone was called; 'Cool its ABBA', so my spelling improves! :D :D
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I'm not accusing you Luit. Far from it. My system has had a few glitches over recent weeks and I've mislain several regular topics. Nor can I find it in the Forum index. A Search for Weekly Lisse Flower Show has also been unproductive. Can you give me a link please?
Lesley you'll find it easy in Bulbs General, but here is the link as well:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2946.30 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2946.30)
But I understand what you mean. I was searching this Topic of the year 2008 and it took me
several minutes to find it. But that was more because I did not type the exact words to search.
It might try to add a + when searching, like for instance type: Flower Show + Lisse.
Then at least you find some pages with Flower, Show and Lisse.
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Chris, do the words 'cool' and 'Abba' belong in the same phrase? ;D
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David, maybe only if you sport a mullet harirdo and think that the reparte between Kevin Keegan and Henry Cooper is the height of eradite whit!
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Thank you Luit. I hadn't caught up with the new, 2009 version of the Weekly Lisse Flower Show. I always find Forum searches difficult/frustrating. Anyway, I have it notified now. Love the very dark tulips. :)
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two new species in flower today:
Iris danfordiae, native form with smaller flowers
'' reticulata, a small flowered form from Iran
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Lovely Dirk. Your little I. danfordiae look much neater than the form currently available in the trade.
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Dirk,
did you grow the I. danfordiae from seed? Does this types tend to create bulbils and not bloom, as the commercial form?
The reticulata has a great clear colour!
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Dirk - I love the second reticulata, lovely colouring!
David, realised I never answered your question, the answer is Yes, if people send me pics or post them here of named cultivars I will add them to the ID 'monatge' and then re-post the combination, I have added danfordiae for completeness, also 'our' trade Iris reticulata! There are still so many cultivars I don't have pics for! - Clairette, Natasha, Joyce, Pauline - to name but a few!
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Jamie,
i become the bulbs from a friend. This form set seed and bulbills and is better in flowering than the hort.form.
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Dirk - I love the second reticulata, lovely colouring!
David, realised I never answered your question, the answer is Yes, if people send me pics or post them here of named cultivars I will add them to the ID 'monatge' and then re-post the combination, I have added danfordiae for completeness, also 'our' trade Iris reticulata! There are still so many cultivars I don't have pics for! - Clairette, Natasha, Joyce, Pauline - to name but a few!
Chris, some Iris reticulata pics here to add to your montage:-
Joyce; Iris hyrcana; hitrioides Angels Tears; Alida; Palm Springs; Halkis; Sewen Lake; Pauline; and what I grow as Clairette.
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Iris reticulata Harmony flowering now. It like my bulb beet.
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Franz........ :o :o :o :o Fabulous !!
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That is lovely Franz.
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A most "harmonious" display, indeed! ;D The poor weather finished off all the reticulata types here last week. :(
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Hristo, I posted a pic of Natascha on page 17 of this thread. You can us it in your montage if you wish. I have some pics of 'Frank Elder' which I hope to post before too long.
Roma
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Iris reticulata Harmony flowering now. It like my bulb beet.
I like it too Franz! :D :D
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In the Topic Weekly Lisse Flower Show I showed some Iris which were
send in to compare.
I hope it is alright to show them here too.
Iris Angel's Tears Iris Michael's Angel [from left]
Iris Lady Beatrix Stanley Iris Angel's Tears Iris Michael's Angel [from left]
Iris Michael's Angel Iris Angel's Tears Iris Lady Beatrix Stanley [from left]
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the plant I have under the name "Iris hyrcana" : I like this blue !
and this year only a single flower of Iris pamphylica :'(
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Two little beauties Dirk. According to Tony Hall at Kew, the wild form of I. danfordiae also breaks up but not so badly as the commercial form (so far as I remember that was his comment).
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Biodiversite, what you show as I. hyrcana looks extremely like I. reticulata 'Natascha,' sometimes describes as a white reticulata, but in fact, very pale or "ice" blue with a strong orange signal.
I don't believe there's any difference between 'Angel's Tears' and 'Michael's Angel.'
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I'm with Lesley on your Iris hyrcana Dom. Further up the page is a pic of what I'm growing as I. hyrcana.
I agree also in respect of no discernable difference between Angel's Tears and Michael's Angel.
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Here is a picture of Iris Angel's Tears in Dutch cultivation:
Iris Angel's Tears
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Wow- when you see Iris and Crocus grown on that scale is there any wonder that people have mislabelled plants in their gardens? All it needs would be a few pips of different cultivars droppig into the soil and bulking up in with a different crop. The same with the Crocus too. I imagine they aren't harvested until after seed drop.
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Simon, in the first year there will not be many seeds and if so the
seeds will be seeved out with the sand.
And this gardener does not grow on such a large scale, that he would need
big machines.
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It is often the larger companies people seem to be having more problems with.
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Hi there,
Attached updated version of Iris reticulata type id page, please check, argue, and send pics to be added!
Many thanks for contributed pics, if you want a full file size version let me know and I will e-mail it to you.
[attachimg=1]
A full size photo may be downloaded here : http://files.srgc.net/general/HristoReticIDfull.jpg (http://files.srgc.net/general/HristoReticIDfull.jpg)
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Excellent ;D
Thanks for doing that, Hristo, what a fantastic reference
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A wonderful montage, Hristo. Thank you very much for this. May I put my name forward to recieve a larger version.
One small correction to a typo - I think it should be 'SeWan Lake' rather than 'Sevan'.
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Hristo,
wow, the thing just keeps getting better. Thanks, and I would love to get the full-size version. May make a nice poster for my wall!
As to SeWan vs Sevan, as this is an English language piece, I would tend to using the 'v', as many will simply mispronounce the 'w', as if it were English and say sue-en, instead of zay-va(r)n. A common problem with translations. Maybe the other spelling in parenthesis for completeness. Do we know the original introduction spelling? Technically, that is the correct one, regardless of the spelling/translation.
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Last Rare Plants catalogue has 'Sevan'
A big YES PLEASE for a larger version Chris and thanks for the work you have done on this.
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Chris, it occurs to me that as your internet connection is not the best, it may be easier for you to send me a full size file of the chart and then I can send it out to those requesting it....would that be a help to you?
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Maybe it can be put up full size on someone's web page? I'm happy to make it available at BotanicalGardening.com if a more appropriate place isn't found. I WOULD like to have a full size copy myself! (the reticulates are blooming here NOW...)
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Chris, it occurs to me that as your internet connection is not the best, it may be easier for you to send me a full size file of the chart and then I can send it out to those requesting it....would that be a help to you?
.. or perhaps make it available for download from the SRGC server?
Excellent work Chris. Many thanks.
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Thanks to all for kind words, I will pass the file onto Maggi ( Thanks Guardian Angel! )
Maybe if anyone has pics to contibute tthis year I will update and re-post, otherwise I
Know I will be able to add another 10 cultivars to the montage next year!
Hristo.
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As to SeWan vs Sevan, as this is an English language piece, I would tend to using the 'v', as many will simply mispronounce the 'w', as if it were English and say sue-en, instead of zay-va(r)n. Do we know the original introduction spelling? Technically, that is the correct one, regardless of the spelling/translation.
Janis lists Iris paradoxa 'Sevan' spelled with a 'v' presumably from the same original place name
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Hristo
Many thanks for posting the montage of reticulate Iris
Maggi
I would like a copy of the large version - thanks
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Chris, as Iris ret. Pauline is in color and shape almost the same as Purple Gem,
I like to add a picture of Pauline here.
May be you want to change it in your composition?
Iris reticulata Pauline
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Thanks for the further pic of 'Pauline', from both pics received it would appear whilst very similar 'Pauline' is a somewhat richer and darker colour than 'Purple Gem'. The 'Purple Gem' is my own picture and I have compared the colour imagry represented on my computer with the plant in the garden.
Many thanks, every pic helps to 'improve' the picture!
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after a Saturday with sunshine,
a new species from Bazoft in Iran in two forms
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Gorgeous Dirk, particularly the first one.
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I too would like a larger version, to download as a wall poster. Thanks.
Those two are really lovely Dirk. You say a new species. Is there a name for it yet?
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Dirk
Beautiful Irises from Bazoft :)
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Lesley,
Brian Mathew write to time over this species. I hope on the name this or next year.
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Another lovely treasure to look forward to Dirk! :)
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Dirk,
You keep surprising us !
Two wonderful gems ii :o
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Here is a photo of a stunning white Iris reticulata, posted in another thread by Janis Ruksans, who wrote...
"white Iris reticulata found by my friend in mountains of Armenia"
[attach=1]
Also a further comment from Janis ......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Lesley Cox on March 22, 2009, 10:21:18 PM
At last, a truly white Iris reticulata. What a lovely thing it is.
"There is another one white reticulata selected from wild material many, many years ago by Alan McMurtrie. He sold stock to Wim de Goede in Holland who applied micropropogation technology on it and now have good stock. It was named WHITE CAUCASUS and exhibited at Breezand show (Holland) for first time I think in spring 2007. I think it soon must appear on trade. I didn't see it personally so I can't judge about differences or similarity with mine. You can see Alan's hybrids on his web page, suppose that address was reticulata.com or similar - I haven't time to search it now."
Janis
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This looks like the one Zhirair showed us last year. ??
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1194.msg39391#msg39391
I showed White Caucasus last year.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1315.msg31915#msg31915
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Wonderfull flower !
I love albino flowers !
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This looks like the one Zhirair showed us last year. ??
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1194.msg39391#msg39391
I showed White Caucasus last year.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1315.msg31915#msg31915
You are right Luit, it is the same image.
The 'White Caucasus,' presumably Alan's, seems to be a little bit frilly or ruffled, in comparison. Both are very beautiful though.
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after a Saturday with sunshine,
a new species from Bazoft in Iran in two forms
No. 1 certainly is Iris zagrica (just recently named), No. 2 looks as bluish form of it.
Janis
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the plant I have under the name "Iris hyrcana" : I like this blue !
and this year only a single flower of Iris pamphylica :'(
It looks more 'Natasha' than hyrcana. Attached typical hyrcana and very rare, the lightest what I saw, but it is lost.
Janis
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Two new Irises named by me in BURIED TREASURES
Iris reticulata subsp. kurdica - feature which I didn't noted before - black anthers. In all other my reticulatas anthers are yellow or white
On other Iris pskemense - intermediate between kolpakowskiana and winkleri - by me most beautiful Central Asian reticulata.
Janis
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Janis,
I. pskemense is stunning !!! :o
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I reticulata ssp kurdica does it for me! Beautiful.
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after a Saturday with sunshine,
a new species from Bazoft in Iran in two forms
No. 1 certainly is Iris zagrica (just recently named), No. 2 looks as bluish form of it.
Janis
I agree : I have this species too and it is the same plant : Iris zagrica ;) (doesn't matter the name of the picture : I searched after for the real name and did not change the name of the pic... ::) )
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the plant I have under the name "Iris hyrcana" : I like this blue !
and this year only a single flower of Iris pamphylica :'(
It looks more 'Natasha' than hyrcana. Attached typical hyrcana and very rare, the lightest what I saw, but it is lost.
Janis
Yes I'm sure know that it is 'Natascha' but I'm unpleased as it came from Paul Christian >:(
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Very nice plants Janis and Bio ;)
I agree with Bio ( of course, he's a compatriot ;D ) It's really not pleasant to buy a plant, sometimes quite expensive, and to get another one !
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Yes I'm sure know that it is 'Natascha' but I'm unpleased as it came from Paul Christian >:(
It isn't great surprise for me
Janis
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A certain seller of rare stuff on the interent has an end of season sale, I find this is the best time to buy because if and when things turn out to be something else you have minimised your losses! The big problem I think is always going to be buying from sources where one suspects many of the bulbs are not grown by the supplier but are passed on without being grown on, sadly this means the veracity of the naming is never checked!
When it comes to buying the rarer and more expensive juno and reticulate Iris species I pretty much exclusively buy my plants from a certain gent in Lativia! ;) ;)
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Same for me Hristo ;D
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When it comes to buying the rarer and more expensive juno and reticulate Iris species I pretty much exclusively buy my plants from a certain gent in Lativia! ;) ;)
You Chris, and others in the north are very fortunate to have that opportunity. Our MAF doesn't allow us, never mind the difficulties of persuading such things to turn their seasons upsidedown! :'(
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I have a picture from Goth bot garden of Iris reticulata that must be exactly the same as you showed Janis, with the name Iris reticulata subsp kurdica. (Collection number Batman 118)
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Hi there,
Attached updated version of Iris reticulata type id page, please check, argue, and send pics to be added!
Many thanks for contibruted pics, if you want a full file size version let me know and I will e-mail it to you.
(Attachment Link)
Edit by Maggi: I have attached the composite pic in enlarged size for ease of viewing.... I know it means a little scrolling.... but it's worth it! Obviously, you may still wish to contact usabout a larger file size version.
Fantastic Hristo. Maybe you would also like to do one for the Galanthus species and hybrids! ;D
johnw
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John, I fear that route leads only to insanity! I was never good at binary maths, so substitute 10010001 for green,white,white,green,white,white,white,green, I thnk you get the idea? Galanthus are nice but afraid I am an Iris and Orchid man as I love the often not so subtle diversity of colour and form! ;) ;)
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Whew!!! That's a relief :)
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I have a picture from Goth bot garden of Iris reticulata that must be exactly the same as you showed Janis, with the name Iris reticulata subsp kurdica. (Collection number Batman 118)
Yes, it is BATM-118 and another BATM-125 (not flowering with me this spring). Attached picture BATM-125 from previous year.
Janis
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after a Saturday with sunshine,
a new species from Bazoft in Iran in two forms
No. 1 certainly is Iris zagrica (just recently named), No. 2 looks as bluish form of it.
Janis
Janis,
many thanks for your identification.
Here is Iris zagrica with seed last year.
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Dirk - what is the secret to getting reticulate iris to set seed? I have never got any seed but you clearly have the knowledge to make it happen!
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Tony- it's easy - if there aren't any bees around just get your finger in there!
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Thanks! I have fat fingers compared to these little flowers but I'm used to hand pollinating the crocus so I should have worked it out. Crocus oten set seed without my intervention though but reticulatas rarely oblige so I wondered if there are any other 'requirements'. (Fertilisation in crocus can be killed off by low temperatures in the 24 hours after pollination.)
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I'm happy to put a page dedicated to Iris reticulata on my web site marksgardenplants. Like this
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus%20tommasinianus.html (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus%20tommasinianus.html) but two images side by side about 500 pixels wide. All I need are your images.
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Tony,
i have many bees in my garden. Some plants ( for crossing ) are hand pollinating.
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Tony, we already have seed set here on the reticulatas outside- too cold for bees on some of the days they were flowering this month- so i did the business myself.
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I'm happy to put a page dedicated to Iris reticulata on my web site marksgardenplants. Like this
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus%20tommasinianus.html (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus%20tommasinianus.html) but two images side by side about 500 pixels wide. All I need are your images.
Mark, did you mean the collage the Hristo (Chris) put together?
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I have a picture from Goth bot garden of Iris reticulata that must be exactly the same as you showed Janis, with the name Iris reticulata subsp kurdica. (Collection number Batman 118)
That is a lovely iris, with the very strong and prominent signal stripe. I like the otherwise sombre colouring too, a super combo. (I didn't realise that Batman collected irises. ;D)
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Here is Iris zagrica with seed last year.
That is a beautiful sight :P
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I get a few seeds on reticulata irises but do not hand pollinate. I have 7 seedlings from 'Natascha' in their second year. I also have a potful of seedlings from an unlabelled seedpod. I think it was 'Katharine Hodgkin' as I recall being surprised to find it, but my memory could be deceiving me. I will have to be patient till the seedlings flower.
Here is Iris 'Frank Elder' which I don't think has been shown here. I like the colour much better than 'Katherine Hodgkin'
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Here is Iris 'Frank Elder' which I don't think has been shown here. I like the colour much better than 'Katherine Hodgkin'
Roma, that's a lovely sight.
I got a bulb of this variety this year but it'll be a long while to get to match your flowering! ;D
cheers
fermi
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Interesting,
here you guys speak about bees and pollination to get seeds.
I always try to isolate my bulbs from bees, especially those, which are in very limited quantities to keep them safe from virus infections. For example, during crocus flowering season, they so heavily attack my plants that many's petal look distorted with lot of damages and cracks on petals. In my opinion bees transfer the virus through mechanical damages by their legs when taking the pollen. So for me it better not to get seeds than to have virused plants. Otherwise hand pollination is wise decision.
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Yes David, I would do it similar to Chris' version more like this but larger images
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/pratense-striatum11A.html (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/pratense-striatum11A.html)
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Two new Irises named by me in BURIED TREASURES
Iris reticulata subsp. kurdica - feature which I didn't noted before - black anthers. In all other my reticulatas anthers are yellow or white
On other Iris pskemense - intermediate between kolpakowskiana and winkleri - by me most beautiful Central Asian reticulata.
Janis
Janis, is Buried Treasures book of yours? Do you have a website? Have not really grown the Reticulate Iris genera except in pots in UK in sunny spots!!!!! I think the two in your photographs are absolute treasures and I agree that Iris pskemense is the most beautiful sight.....
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Interesting,
here you guys speak about bees and pollination to get seeds.
I always try to isolate my bulbs from bees, especially those, which are in very limited quantities to keep them safe from virus infections. For example, during crocus flowering season, they so heavily attack my plants that many's petal look distorted with lot of damages and cracks on petals. In my opinion bees transfer the virus through mechanical damages by their legs when taking the pollen. So for me it better not to get seeds than to have virused plants. Otherwise hand pollination is wise decision.
Hello Zhirair,
interesting point you mention ::)
I do not like the bees around my plants to much (as I grow all outside I cannot avoid it) because of possible hybrids of near related species or forms which grow close together - in my opinion the only possibility to keep the species clean is to avoid the flowers are pollinated by insects and to pollinate them by hand.
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Hello Hans,
Pleased to hear from you!
It's true, it's quite a hard work to isolate plants from bees when thy're grown outsite. That is why I plant the ones in very limited quantities under cold glass, and construct temporary small 'greenhouses' for the other valuable species and varieties in the garden only during flowering and remove the cover after they have finished blooming. It proves to be very helpful. During 15 years I've never observed any signs of virus among isolated plants, while the others in an open area can catch virus from year to year.
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Lesley, Batman has lots of abilities, many yet unheard of!
Seriously - Batman is a river and a city in southeast Turkey.
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Yes David, I would do it similar to Chris' version more like this but larger images
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/pratense-striatum11A.html (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/pratense-striatum11A.html)
Mark, speaking personally I would like to see them on your Web Site. Chris (Hristo) did all the hard work in putting the pictures together though so perhaps you should ask him if he is happy.
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Lesley, Batman has lots of abilities, many yet unheard of!
Seriously - Batman is a river and a city in southeast Turkey.
Oh, indeed he has!!
Here's a photo of him, (clowning around with Janis' crutches, when Janis had a broken leg) a couple of years ago......
[attach=1]
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Two new Irises named by me in BURIED TREASURES
Iris reticulata subsp. kurdica - feature which I didn't noted before - black anthers. In all other my reticulatas anthers are yellow or white
On other Iris pskemense - intermediate between kolpakowskiana and winkleri - by me most beautiful Central Asian reticulata.
Janis
Janis, is Buried Treasures book of yours? Do you have a website? Have not really grown the Reticulate Iris genera except in pots in UK in sunny spots!!!!! I think the two in your photographs are absolute treasures and I agree that Iris pskemense is the most beautiful sight.....
Yes it is my book.
Janis
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Tony- it's easy - if there aren't any bees around just get your finger in there!
I like bees in greennhouse. In two of my greenhouses are bee hive in each. They do a lot of pollination for me. Of course, hybrids occur, but sometimes they are excellent! Just this spring bloomed marvellous crocus, and my Allium hybrids all are made by bees.
If I want 100% true seed - I use very thin brush byable in artists shops. Here reported as made from squirrels... In reticulatas and Junos I'm simply inserting brush in and out between fall and style branches (from front) and all is done. Only warning - several Turkish Juno stenophylla especially but persica, galatica, too - if they set seeds - seed capsules are large and very full with seeds but in 90% bulb will be lost or you will harvest very small replacement bulb.
Janis
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Thanks Janis & all
I have had seed from Junos regularly but the ones I grow flower later than the reticulata iris so there are more bees around. Next year I will try hand pollinating as you suggest.
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Suppose that this one collected in Iranian Kurdistan possibly is I. zagrica, too
Janis
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Lesley, Batman has lots of abilities, many yet unheard of!
Seriously - Batman is a river and a city in southeast Turkey.
Oh, indeed he has!!
Here's a photo of him, (clowning around with Janis' crutches, when Janis had a broken leg) a couple of years ago......
The Batman is Swedish? ???
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Lesley, Batman has lots of abilities, many yet unheard of!
Seriously - Batman is a river and a city in southeast Turkey.
Oh, indeed he has!!
Here's a photo of him, (clowning around with Janis' crutches, when Janis had a broken leg) a couple of years ago......
The Batman is Swedish? ???
Henrik is Swedish. Here another two Batmans but from Latvia and now on spot in Turkey. Here we deceided as abbreviation to our gatherings to use code BATMAN or shorter form BATM (for expedition-2004)
Janis
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;D ;D ;D
Do you also have DRACULA ??? ;D
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;D ;D ;D
Do you also have DRACULA ??? ;D
Of course there is also a "Dracula".... where do you think all those Corydalis transylvannica come from? ;D ;D
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Hilarious
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Maggi,
And you can't go past the orchid genus Dracula, and the obviously humorous botanist that named a black flowered member of that genus Dracula vampira (which I grow incidentally, although I have not flowered it as yet).
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I saw some very dark ones in the botanical garden in Lund Sweden and like to share them with You.
They might be slightly less black in real life but they were dark.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Joakim,
VERY nice!! 8)
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the latest from all Reticulatas:
Iris pamphylica from S-Turkey
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You kept a very nice one for last Dirk !!! :D
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Great Udo, this is one of those I'm looking for many years !!!
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Lovely plant Dirk.
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What a cutie! 8)
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A couple of the "reticulata" types that are flowering for me here in Canberra at the moment.....
Iris histrio
Iris histrioides ssp sophensis.
These two are sort of the opposite ends of the spectrum, with the histrio being the largest of them that I grow, and the ssp sophensis being the smallest Ithink?
Lots of buds starting to show on others though. 8)
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Ah, the joys of spring! For us reticulatas are always an exciting time- knowing there is so much more to follow.
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Simon,
That is always how I feel with the first of the Galanthus..... they're the harbingers of the wonders to come.
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Do you have Galanthus out yet? Ours tend to be later than the reeticulatas here.
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Super looking reticulatas Paul, do they bulk up well for you?
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Simon,
The first of the non-autumn Galanthus (i.e not reginae-olgae or peshmenii) start in June here.... some varieties are already well over. Obviously you haven't been viewing the Galanthus area where we've been posting southern hemisphere stuff for the last couple of months? ::) :P Well and truly out before the retics, every year.
Chris,
They're bulking up much better now that I have the crocus garden and the added insulation. Has made a huge difference to production of flowering sized bulbs. 8)
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I have to confess that although I like Galanthus, they are not that interesting to me- heresy I know. I was just interested that they flowered so early- June for you would be December here and they would be under at least 50cm of snow ;) The areas we grow reticulatas are more open and lose snow cover quicker-so we can see them pushing through by February.
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Iris histrio has fabulous markings Paul, it's a lovely looking group :)
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Paul, a superb group of Iris histrio!
Are you growing them in Sand or do you use it only as groundcover?
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Thanks All.
Simon,
I am guessing that under snowcover they may just hold off longer anyway. You never know until you at least try some. I'm sure there are a lot of people on this forum that grow snowies that have solid snowcover in winter, and yet they work for them? ???
Hans,
The sand is a topdressing only, although the mix I am growing them in is a very sandy one. If you have seen my "Evolution of a Crocus Garden" topic in the crocus section.... this is growing in that garden.
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Paul, we have a patch of lovely galanthus, which came with the garden and they flower happily when the snow melts. I just meant that they flower after the reticulatas here, because they have more snow on them in the woodland garden than the retics in the xeric garden. Also that I don't think I could get into having lots of different Galanthus, cos they all look the same to me. ;) Too much information I know- so I will stop now ::)
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Nice to see the retics Paul !
Love the histrio pic !!
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Lovely retics Paul.
I re-potted my pot grown retics yesterday and was very disappointed. Not one of them had multiplied, some had disappeared completely, others had broken down into bulbills, and only Katharine Hodgkin looked to have good healthy bulbs. I know some Forumists feel that Iris reticulata varieties are best grown out in the garden but I was disappointed with my garden grown ones when they flowered earlier this year.
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A few reticulate Iris flowering in my garden at the moment :
I. danfordiae ,A. Mc. Murtrie 2325
? bakeriana
ret. ? 'Michael'
histrioides 'Lady Beatrix Stanley'
histrio var. aintabensis M&T 4501
Is I. ret. 'Michael' correctly named ?
and is it true bakeriana - it has the characteristicly 8 sided leaves - would greatly appreciate conformation , many thanks.
The collected I . danfordiae is only about a third of the commercial form , but a gem,
I grew it from seed that Alan Mc M. collected in Turkey and sent to me in 1986.
The I. histrio v. aintabensis , a B. Mathew and Tomlinson collection nr. Maras , Tky,
I have kept alive since the sixties , and as it had been lost to cultivation in England ,
I was thrilled to send some bulbs back to Brian Mathew.
It is so important to share rare plants worldwide .
Otto.
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Superb pix and flowers Otto !! :o
The I. danfordiae is truly spectacular !!... as are the others... ::)
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The I. histrio v. aintabensis , a B. Mathew and Tomlinson collection nr. Maras , Tky,
I have kept alive since the sixties , and as it had been lost to cultivation in England ,
I was thrilled to send some bulbs back to Brian Mathew.
It is so important to share rare plants worldwide .
Lovely gems Otto - the last one is my favourite.......I so agree with your philosophy......a relation of my husband, in NZ, discovered a field of neglected peonies and restored them to their former glory....then on a visit to Kelways in UK she found that many of them were 'lost' varieties, originally from there, and so she was able to re-introduce them :)
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Super irises Otto. The McMurtrie danfordiae looks like wild material? rather than the commercial clone. Much nicer. If your bakeriana has 8 sides, then yes, it is true. Definitely.
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I'm not sure that Otto's Iris bakeriana is just that, but we have had this discussion many times. If you have the time Otto have a look further back in this thread and in particular to my reply 178 of February 13th, where I quoted from correspondence I had with Alan McMurtrie, and have a look too at other replies that led up to mine. I think also there are some Links to even earlier discussions on the same topic.
This is something we could well be discussing in year dot!! ;D
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Otto,
Love that danfordiae. Other than the year I bought the commercial form many years ago, I've never managed to flower it again. I'm hoping one of these years in the crocus garden one might get large enough to flower. Fingers and everything else crossed.
Here's a few that I have in flower at the moment. Any corrections to names please let me know. Too easy to buy something incorrectly named and never realise it. There'll be more to show as I took some more pics yesterday. Currently waiting for 'George' to open in the main clump in the crocus garden..... there's 9 buds at the point of opening. Will be the best flowering of a clump of retics (or histrioides... you know what I mean) that I have ever had.
Iris reticulata 'Gordon'
Iris reticulata 'Purple Gem'
Iris reticulata 'Royal Blue' (looks an awful lot like Harmony to me, but still waiting for that to open so I can compare a bit easier. Opposite sides of the house unfortunately, and neither are moveable. ::))
Please click on the pic for a larger version. If pics are too large, please let me know.
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Love the Iris reticulata 'Purple Gem', Paul, just such a sumptuous colour :)
Looking forward to seeing more of these and our crocus
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Here's some more....
Iris histrio ssp aintabensis
Iris histrioides 'Angel Tears' (I think)
Iris reticulata 'George'
Iris reticulata 'Violet Beauty' (this is out the back, main clump is in the crocus garden and just opening).
Enjoy.
Please click on the pic for a larger version. If pics are too large, please let me know.
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Great stuff Paul !!!!
Gorgeous Spring colours aren't they ? :D :D
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Cracking looking flowers Paul and Otto, strange to think these wee guys are just getting going for you!
I always look forward to 'Katherine Hodgkin Season', still my fav reticulata type maybe, gorgeous and prolific, what a combo!
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Chris,
I wish it was gorgeous and prolific for me here..... struggles badly, even though winogradowii does OK for me here. I rarely if ever get flowers from Katharine and she is slowly dying out here I think. :'( I've tried her in various areas with more summer moisture (within reason of course, not talking wet or anything) but not much change. ::)
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Paul,
So sorry to hear she does not do well with you, I wonder if its a temperature thing as opposed to water?
Do you grow the Junmo section Iris? I would imagine they should do well with you?
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Chris,
The strange thing is that winowgradowii does OK for me, and they are supposed to be similar conditions. Go figure? :-\
I've just started into Juno Irises. Bought a couple last year after I did more research into how to grow them...... they are returning this year, along with the half dozen more that I bought this season. I also have some seedlings that are in their 3rd or 4th year now as well.... nothing special, but a good experiment to try them form seed. Iris 'Sindpers' should be opening a flower tomorrow for the first time, which is wonderful. A friend of mine here in Canberra has a wonderful clump that flowers brilliantly for her in the normal garden. I am jealous as anything!! :o My little bulb I bought this year wasn't much to start out with, so I was pleased to discover a bud on it this morning so I will get to see it in flower in person in my own garden. ;D
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Great stuff Paul, sindpers is a little stunner, I have seen many a pundit suggest it is by far the best hybrid juno to be had, I can see why!
Junos are I think my second addiction after orchids, so beware!
I look forward to seeing your first flower! :D
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Lovely show of Irises Paul..... and of Crocus.... and of Snowies, you are having a good spring!
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Super pictures everyone, I am beginning to yearn for the Northern hemisphere Spring!
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Some more retics flowering for me at the moment....
Iris reticulata 'Clairette'
Iris histrioides 'George' and friends
Iris reticulata 'Harmony'
Iris reticulata 'Sprintime'
Please click on the pic for a larger version. If pics are too large, please let me know.
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And a few more....
Iris reticulata 'Joyce'
Narcissus cordubensis and a good clump of Iris x histrioides 'George'
An unknown pale blue retic that I am sure we discussed last year and came up with a name for, but the search function brings up nothing by way of unknown reticulatas for me unfortunately! Does anyone have a name for this? David, this is the one I sent you bulbs of I think?
Please click on the pic for a larger version. If pics are too large, please let me know.
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Yes, you did Paul. It was a couple of years ago and it took it a year to get used to NH seasons before I finally lost it last year. More to do with my failings I think, none of my Iris retics. did much last year and I lost quite a few because I dried them off to early.
I'm thinking about using some wood ashes on them Paul :P
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David,
That's a shame. Will have to see what we can do next dormancy, but you'll need to remind me. ;D
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Paul,
lovely I. reticulata stuff and a very nice clump of N. cordubensis 8)
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Thanks Armin. I particularly like the contrast between the glorious purple of the Iris and the yellow of the Narc. 8)
Awaiting the opening of a white Iris winowgradowii hybrid at the moment..... hopefully open tomorrow depending on the weather. I hope it will do better for me than 'Katharine Hodgkin', which I love dearly but can barely grow. ::)
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Is the pale blue reticulata 'Cantab?' Mine is in flower now but just a single bloom this year. I find it's not among the more vigorous. Danfordiae is also out (the commercial Dutch clone), but new bulbs, none of last year's, which, inevitably have split. I don't think I'll bother buying more.
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Paul,
I was just going through some shots of reticulata I've collected on the internet and thought of your unknown. I strongly resembles 'Alida', although yours seems a bit more opulent and ruffled. A foto was posted in this thread around March 1, 09. Check it out.
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Lesley,
Checking the Net for pics, Cantab is much bluer than mine I think. My unknown is pale blue, almost with a hint of aqua in it (a very small hint, but but it is different to any other retic I have flowered recently). It also doesn't have the neat rounded falls of 'Cantab' either.
Jamie,
Checking the Net for 'Alida' there are definitely some pics up there that show it as a very similar colour to mine (and some that show it as very different), and it certainly looks much more like it colour-wise than 'Cantab'. However, shape is again the main thing that rules it out. Mine does not have the neat rounded falls, they all are much more slender and fold back. I have a half dozen flower out now and they're all pretty much the same. Both 'Alida' and 'Cantab' have what I would call fairly modern forms, whereas this unknown of mine is much more spidery I feel. I have bought 'Alida' this year (not flowering unfortunately) so I can compare it properly at some point.... but even at this stage that new bulb that isn't flowering has a more substantial leaf than any on my clump that are.
Looking through other retic pis on the Net while checking on these names, I didn't come across any that have a similar form to mine. I am wondering whether mine is an older species type (as in shape of flower, not implying it IS a species) or something?
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Links to Iris 'Alida' in the forum:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1194.msg31539#msg31539
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1194.msg31679;topicseen#msg31679
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1331.msg34197#msg34197
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Maggi,
Thanks for the links. There are actually more than that (well using the search I actually found some others anyway), as I found pics different to those earlier in this topic (or were you just listing other topics there?). They just confirm that the shape of mine is all wrong for 'Alida' as it is nowhere near as rounded and "formal" as any pic of it I've seen. I would still be fairly sure that the colour is all wrong too, as mine is much paler etc.
Thanks again for the links. I would definitely rule out 'Alida' now I think.
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Paul,
I agree with you, the form is more spidery on yours, and in my eyes considerably more attractive! Possibly it is an old species seedling, possibly not pure, but I really don't know enough about the variance of this group of Iris. I think it is a pretty fabulous plant, though. You know where to send the extra seed bulbs ;D I have only a few reticulatas, but am trying seed to see if I can get forms better adjusted to my garden. Katherine Hodgkin does very well for me. Go figure!
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For Paul in particular, and for others who may not have seen it, last year Chris (Hristo) put together a montage of images of Iris reticulata forms. If anyone would like a copy of the larger file send me an Email to my private address.
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David,
Yes, I recall the pic from Chris. I think it is still here on the forums as well.
Here's a couple more pics taken yesterday. All are first flowerings for me....
Iris reticulata 'Natasha' (sorry about the label in the background)
Iris winowgradowii - white hybrid. Brand new this year, but I am concerned that the little blue markings may indicate virus? :'( A real shame if it IS the case, as I love it. Might try to set seed on it (and from it) this season. Do others think it IS virus, or could it be environmental?
Iris reticulata 'Edward' (the standards are curled over to the side because there has been roaring winds the last few days and everything is on an angle. ::)
Click on the pics for a larger version.
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I just realised I forgot one.... A pic of the clump of the unknown pale blue in flower. Just to show that they all have that spidery smaller look to them and that the first flower wasn't an aberration. 8)
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There used to be one around many years ago called I. reticulata 'Cyanea' which was a pale blue version of the old retic. Maybe?
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Great retics Paul !
Dont't know about the white winogradowii being virused or not - I do remember seeing another I. w. hybrid somewhere that wasn't entirely white either... ???
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Lesley,
There is a hint of 'Cyan' (the colour) to my eye in the colour of my iris (that aqua I was talking about) but there doesn't seem to be much at all on the Net about it. Anyone reading this have pictures to show us?
Luc,
I am hoping that the little blue marks are just colour irregularities. There do seem to be a certain amount of them in some of the other hybrids, but I was hoping someone could give me more of an idea of what they are? They could just be a slight instability, after all it can be clearly seen that this white hybrid is definitely blue-ish in the falls etc. I hope it is OK. Roaring wind again today so I didn't get out and do some pollinating... hopefully tomorrow I can start some little retic/histrioides type seeds on the way. ;D
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Iris winowgradowii - white hybrid. Brand new this year, but I am concerned that the little blue markings may indicate virus? :'( A real shame if it IS the case, as I love it. Might try to set seed on it (and from it) this season. Do others think it IS virus, or could it be environmental?
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Paul, unfortunately I must confirm that it is virus! Sorry... I think it not comes from my stock. It is sterile. I didn't find any between my plants and as those hybrids (Kath.Hodgh. and others) are often infected every spring I'm checking flowers very carefully.
Janis
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Attached is picture from my inside grown pot of winogradowii alba.
Janis
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very nice indeed Janis.
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good enought to eat!
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WONDERFULL Janis !!!!
I never had success with this species, and your's is fantastic,... and the pale colour :P :P :o
How do you grow it ?
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WONDERFULL Janis !!!!
I never had success with this species, and yours is fantastic,... and the pale colour :P :P :o
How do you grow it ?
Most of it's bulbs are grown on ordinary nursery bed on SW faced slope where it stay without replanting up to 3 years. Soil is quite hard clay, now very damp, but bulbs are placed in coarse sand and covered with such (see BURIED TREASURES). For winter covered with peat moss. Only few bulbs for safety (I have great problems with rodents - this autumn they ate 20 kg of poisons and I was forced to go to factory to buy another 20 kg) are planted in pots which after frost season are placed outside in slightly shaded spot. In long dry periods they are watered once a week. Better crop is outside.
Janis
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Thank's Janis §
I've BURIED TREASURES, (excellent ;) ) but It's also nice to get more precise indications for a species.
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Gorgeous I. winowgradowii Janis !
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I started to work with last seasons pictures and found something not noted during flowering season. In summer 2008 I got few bulbs of Iris kolpakowskiana collected near Kashka-Su in Kyrgyzstan which bloomed last spring. In Buried Treasures I'm describing new species from this group with white rimmed fall and intermediate between winkleri and kolpakowskiana - Iris pskemense. It is high alpine plant as well as I. winkleri. Iris kolpakowskiana is foothill species, but must be separated in two. Plants with white blotch without any yellow on fall is growing everywhere in mountains around Tashkent (Uzbekistan), I checked more than 10 localities during my trips and no one specimen with yellow were found. Near Alma Ata (Kazakhstan) is growing completely different plant with deep yellow in middle of falls, rarely are plants with some white added, but no one without dominating yellow, even albinos-es has deep yellow at base of falls. Those from Kyrgyzstan surprised me being intermediate - with distinct yellow zone surrounded by white. Pity, I saw only few flowers, so I can't judge how typical is this coloration and a level of variation as it was possible with plants named by me as var. almaatensis and var. tashkenticum (names are not legalized, and one according rules must be changed to var. typica). Problem is that I. kolpakowskiana is described as plant with yellow blotch collected near Tashkent, but there are not growing such. So question is - to which one must be applied epithet Iris kolpakowkisna var. kolpakowskiana (typica) - to Tashkent plant by the place from where is reported type specimen (most possibly not correctly) or to plants from Almaty which more correspond with original description.
Janis
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Is it possible that some descriptions of plants found in a distant location are not really representive of the variation found at the site, bit more a description of an atypical plant that stood out from the crowd?
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Janis Iris kolpakowskiana almaatensis is a very desireable Iris.
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Is it possible that some descriptions of plants found in a distant location are not really representive of the variation found at the site, bit more a description of an atypical plant that stood out from the crowd?
The cynic in me would say that this is more a probability than a possibility, Simon! :P
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Is it possible that some descriptions of plants found in a distant location are not really representive of the variation found at the site, bit more a description of an atypical plant that stood out from the crowd?
It more looks as some mistake labeling herbarium sheet used for description of species.
Janis
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Iris bakeriana. Ridiculously early, flowering for the 2nd time in 2009. I always worry that these odd precocious flowers are a sign of ill health. However as several other reticlate iris have noses showing it may be just a strange year.
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I was clearing things in the garden today and noticed lots of reticulata types poking up through the earth. I suspect most are I. 'Katherine Hodgkins', judging from their robust size. They are not alone, as quite a few Narcissus are poking through as well. We did have a cold spell some 4 weeks ago with frosts, but the last weeks have been mild and wet. This week will most likely did below the freezing point nights, so lets hope we don't experience frost kill.
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Your information about the forms of I. kolpakowskiana is very interesting Janis and with the pictures as well, says clearly what the different plants are like. Unfortunately it's a situation not likely to bother me as we don't have any of these gorgeous irises here, at all but it is a great thrill to see yours and perhaps to dream a little. :) The little seed I've had from various sources has never germinated.
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Janis,
Striking pics. Great colour combinations and markings.
Also, thanks for the confirmation re the virus on my x winowgradowii. I'll find somewhere out of the way to keep it I think, as I will try to get seed on it or pollen from it to keep the genetics. Such a shame to receive it virused. :'(
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Your information about the forms of I. kolpakowskiana is very interesting Janis and with the pictures as well, says clearly what the different plants are like. Unfortunately it's a situation not likely to bother me as we don't have any of these gorgeous irises here, at all but it is a great thrill to see yours and perhaps to dream a little. :) The little seed I've had from various sources has never germinated.
Iris seeds must be sawn immediately after harvesting (during 1 week). Problematic with seed exchange and opposite hemisphere. Elder seeds must be soaked for 24 hours in room temperature water, can be added a little solution of KMnO-4 (potash permanganate) to light pink color. After that with sharp sterilized knife cut off small peace of seed covering sheet opening minor spot of inner white endospermus and then saw seeds. As seeds are not fresh - do it when autumn starts for seeds would be in moist cool conditions or keep pots in freezer at +4 C. Germination greatly improves.
Janis
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Janis,
Very interesting stuff
Does it matter where on the seed that you make the cut ?
I have actually had almost 100 % germination of some seeds that I got as Juno sp. from Kirgizstan (unknown source). Maybe they were fresh ...
Unfortunately the germination took place just a few weeks ago and now it´s getting cold :(
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Janis,
Very interesting stuff
Does it matter where on the seed that you make the cut ?
I have actually had almost 100 % germination of some seeds that I got as Juno sp. from Kirghistan (unknown source). Maybe they were fresh ...
Unfortunately the germination took place just a few weeks ago and now it's getting cold :(
By literature it is important where to make cut, it is spot where shoot must to come out, but my eyes isn't so good, so I'm cutting just on opposite, for not to damage shoot. And it works, too but is safer.
For Juno sowing of fresh seed is very important, too. Really for all Irises. By Dr. G. Rodionenko - old Iris seeds started to germinate 15(!) years after sawing. With me some Irises germinated this autumn, too - never before recorded. I'm doubtful about alive during winter. Pity, as germination is excellent.
Janis
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I've had good results with junos, cutting off a little of the seed coat. I didn't soak them though and will try that next time for reticulata irises. Potash permanganate = Condy's chrystals?
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Now I think about it, I DID soak the seeds before cutting the coat or I wouldn't have been able to do it I should imagine. I didn't use any chemical in the water though.
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I've had good results with junos, cutting off a little of the seed coat. I didn't soak them though and will try that next time for reticulata irises. Potash permanganate = Condy's chrystals?
I don't know what is Condy's chrystals. Potash permanganate is used for disinfection and buyable in pharmacy, few grains colors water lilac. Chemical formula is KMnO4. Really I don't know how important it is, Latvian gardeners use it. Of course it is cheap and didn't damage if you are not using dark violet solution of high percentage.
Janis
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Reference to an old school book reminds me that what I now know as Condy's chrystals is actually Potassium permanganate, so I guess that's what you use Janis.
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Paul,
Super looking reticulatas, wingradowii alba is a stunner!
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A very early bloomer, aquired this Autumn from Nijssen, Iris hyrcana. It is currently frozen in its pot! The foto is too blue and I did try to doctor it a bit, but I can't seem to get the purple right. It is much deeper. Use your imagination, please. ::)
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Jamie, here's my Iris hyrcana from January this year. Is this closer to the colour of yours?
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Regardless of colour, it is still a beauty, and beautifully grown here - I mean here in the thread, not here in NZ. I don't think it is in NZ. I've seen half a dozen different photos in assorted books and bulletins, of Iris hyrcana and I think every one was different in colour from the others. It seems very difficult to get the shade of blue/purple right.
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David,
mine is still a bit more purple. It is a small flower, about 2.5"/6cm max. Quite cute.
Lesley,
I've seen clones that were much deeper toned than mine, but none that I would have called blue. In any colour, they are lovely little things.
Jamie
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Very, very nice. And so very early. Beautiful.
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Jamie, here's my Iris hyrcana from January this year. Is this closer to the colour of yours?
Iris hyrcana (RSZ-8706) was collected by our team in 1987 in Talish mountains (then soviet Azerbaijan). It turned the earliest of all reticulatas, often blooming through snow together with earliest spring crocuses. Flower color mostly is bright blue, very rarely very light blue, even more rarely slightly lilac shaded. It don't hybridise with I. reticulata due difference in blooming time. I. hyrcana is at very end of blooming when reticulatas start and it is the most easy of all reticulatas for growing outside in conditions of Latvia. I allways regarded it is separate species (not as form of I. reticulata)
Janis