Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: mark smyth on February 19, 2007, 12:14:12 AM
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I would have expected to see many more photos of snowdrops as it's their peak time.
For those who want to know how to tell nivalis 'Warei' from 'Viridapicis' the first has a huge spathe
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here's a lovely clean plicatus shown at the bulb day by Jean and bought from one of the tables one I'm not sure of. It's either a well marked woronowii or a poor ikariae. And from the garden some elwesii 'Handel's acting very strange
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I expect that as we are in full flow of the snowdrop season many of us have been visiting other gardens. When I collected my Diggory from a friend she also gave me a cross between Diggory and Gracilis which she is putatively calling 'Swanton' after the village in which she lives, it has the swirl of the leaves of gracilis and the flower-type of Diggory. Although my photo is not good here is the one she gave me.
The nice patch of Cowhouse Green is from another friends garden. One that I would like to grow. If the has worked I may well look for more photos Mark instead of lurking in the background.
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Well, Brian, that worked just fine, didn't it? So more pix, please!
'Swanton' looks to have promise, good if it shows characteristics of both parents.
I just can't understand why even someone living in a cowhouse would want to call a snowie 'Cowhouse green'....I haven't seen this one in real life, it is the name that puts me off... and this from the woman who would like a G. 'Gloucester Old Spot' just because she likes the pigs!
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Well I have been sitting here Maggi thinking how complicated it must be and it was a breeze! Here is a better picture of Galanthus 'Swanton' (taken by other half with posh camera whilst I was chatting-what a giveaway). I have to say that I am a dead sucker for names too, there's something seductive about Galanthus 'Angelique' whilst Hobson's Choice (a recent acquisition) doesn't have quite the same ring about it!
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"Hobson's Choice" was a cracking film though :), and "Angelique" will set you back at least £20 :( "Swanton" looks like an excellent cross.
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Yes I think she is really pleased with the gracilis hybrid. Sadly I have spent all the money ERNIE has seen fit to award me on snowdrops which explains why I have Angelique. I have to admit that several people I have spoken to have balked at some of the new prices (Godfrey Owen £40 for example). I am getting carried away with the ease of posting so hope the admin will forgive the early photo of Mark or perhaps Maggi below!
Brian, you are quite mistaken, this couldn't be me (I'm a redhead), nor Mark, (glossy black hair) I think the little galanthophile bears a strong likeness to Diane Whitehead :-* Maggi
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As you can see this is my first post on the forum but I have been following the Galanthus thread for some time know.
I am very new to Galanthophilia but seeing all of the different varieties only serves to make me even more keen. I have been photographing just about anything that looks rometly like a snowdrop and this makes it easier to get 'my fix' whilst at work!
I noticed the photos posted by Brian Ellis of Cowhouse Green. I have attached one I took at the RHS Show last week on the Foxgrove Plants exhibition. I hope you like it.
David
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Super, David, a warm welcome to you !
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Brian can you email me please
It is a nice cross. Like I tell everyone with something new it needs to be moved to a couple parts of the garden or to another garden and a couple of bulbs twinscaled. It's all too easy for a fungus or pest to get a good snowdrop. They have a good and usually expensive taste. You will never see a snowdrop under £8 eaten or killed
Now is the time to start spraying every 10 days with a good, usually banned, fungicide and pesticide. At the bulb day there were many plants showing signs of Stagonospora. In pot culture this can spread in one season. The spores are water bourne either by rain or while watering. One I say was already at the spore stage
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My apologies to all, the picture of a clump os 'Swanton' isn't that at all - probably Diggory itself after consultation with photographer. The first picture was however of 'Swanton'. I know for a fact that it has been spread around a few gardens in the area now that it is starting to increase well. I'll twinscale one of mine too.
Thanks for the advice on Stagonospora Mark, it's a bit of a worry when, as you say cheaper snowdrops don't get eaten and killed yet the ones we particularly seek out are prone to everything.
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Brian it isnt Diggory so need to panic. It could simply be gracilis looking like Diggory
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not a good photo, but it's normally Galanthus transcaucasicus... Are you agree ?
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Here's a multi-choice question. I've a clump of this snowdrop in the garden and, yes, I've lost the label, but it will be one of the following:
Barbara's double; Desdemona; Hippolyta; Jaquenetta; Ophelia; or Titania. Going through The Book, leads me to think it's a toss-up between Desdemona and Jaquenetta, but I'd welcome opinions please.
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answers on a post card!
This is what I grow as 'Jacquenetta'
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Biodiversite I have never seen or grown that Galanthus so I cant comment
Here are some more from me to keep the interest up. Maggi requested this last night
nivalis 'Gloucester Old Spot
'David Shackleton' further out than last time I showed them
G. krasnovii - all hints and tips gratefully received
Might Atom Group 'Dodo Norton'
'Dodo Norton'
nivalis ex Slovakia - stands out due to it's late appearance
nivalis ex slovakia
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and a few more until someone else comes forward eg Sandy & Jean!
my own small nivalis green tipped
plicatus 'Granny Smyth - down to one bulb so hopefully getting it chopped
plicatus 'Percy Picton'
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"Signs of Stagonospora" Mark??? I haven't even heard of Stagonospora! What does it do? What are the signs? You've got me all paranoid now!
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Stagonora curtisii is a fungal infection. Symptoms are leaves, sheaths and bulbs with red streaks and spots. Leaves usually have a kink where the infection is/was. Flowers can abort in the spathe and turn grey. Two of the best collections were recently nearly wiped out.
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Biodiversite I have never seen or grown that Galanthus so I cant comment
Actually it seems conformed to this one on this page http://freespace.virgin.net/almond.jim/Portraits.htm
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Hello Mark , here you are ... :)
The photo of Galanthus krasnovii is very impressive! i have never seen a live plant of it. :'(
I like Galanthus plicatus and its cultivars very much. I think they are easy to grow too.
best wishes,
Wim
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hello Wim. There was talk at the Gala that pure plicatus and the cultivars are not long lived. I am very pleased with my krasnovii but it is smaller than I imagined it would be. They should be outside where I'm told it needs moisture during the summer
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not long lived? why not if each bulb devide itsself and make new ones? strange...
I don't know about krasnovii , but i think in the wild populations they get high rainfall in summer too. good luck ...
Wim
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Galanthus elwesii Rosemary Burnham captured at Colesbourne last weekend along with Galanthus Ding Dong.
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Perseverence pays, David! 'Ding Dong' is a bit skinny for my liking. What has 'Rosemary Burnham' seen to make her so green with envy, i wonder :o ;)
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Maggi, meet the real 'green with envy' crying for being so small
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Mark - those pictures of plants infected with Stagonora Curtsii did nothing to quell my paranoia. Do you have a picture of a plant showing the early stages of the fungus, so we can look and take action before things get too far gone?
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very nice Johan. Look after it!
Alan early stages are simply small amounts of rusty streaking on the bulb or kinked leaves
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Snowdrops – strength in numbers?
It is often taught that you should plant snowdrops in groups of at least three. I have been wondering if this is true and, if so, why. Here are some ideas:
1) Visual effect. If you are aiming for a clump then it make take a single snowdrop two to four years before it has bulked up to three. So start with three and you have several years’ advantage. But personally, I think a dense planting of single snowdrops looks more effective than the same number in a few clumps.
2) Mortality. If you have one snowdrop and it dies then you notice the absence. If you have three and one of them dies you may well not notice (given that they should increase from year to year anyway).
3) Strength in numbers. Something in my garden has a tendency to eat snowdrop bulbs when they are in the ground. If it eats one third of each of three bulbs you will be much better off than if it eats the whole of one bulb. I also wonder if snowdrops (and other bulbs) can influence the soil that surrounds them, for example by leaching galanthamine into the soil to deter insects. If so, I could imagine that several snowdrops together work better or faster than a solitary snowdrop.
If idea 3 were true then if you have paid some astronomical price for a single bulb of a precious snowdrop, it would make sense to plant it together with some ordinary snowdrops for protection. Does anybody do this?
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Johan, that is a poor little thing, buy it a few beers and some chocolate to feed it up!
Alanb, that galanthamine idea might be possible, but wouldn't it just stop the pests getting Alzheimer's rather than keeping them away ;D ;D
As for planting a special amongst plain types, you must know that I'm going to say that you'd never be able to find it again :P I don't think it would work, though, you'd just lessen the risk but I think a pest is just as likely good at detecting the one super bulb amongst the run-of-the-mill ones as I am at finding the juiciest cherry in the bowl!
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Alan bulbs are supposed to like being together. Planting named/special cultivars among eg nivalis sounds good because the chances of a pest eating it are slim as seen in flocks of birds
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Your krasnovii is correct Mark. I have four bulbs (from two last year) in two sites in the garden. Last year they were in bloom for the EBD, but this year the flower buds are still wrapped; in fact, one clump is still below the soil surface. Did you ever track down kosher platyphyllus?
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Here are a few that are out today. Not wonderful clumps as I am still (as they say in these here parts a larner). Blonde Inge, Maidwell C, Neill Fraser, Melvillei and Peg Sharples.
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nivalis 'Blonde Inge' is missing the yellow inner mark! Did you buy it from a reputable source? Once disturbed it loses the yellow inner mark and may take a year or two to settle. If it was freshly lifted this year it should have it's yellow mark
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Hi Mark, My snowdrops are late in coming and just checking that these are correctly named.
1 & 2 Galanthus Jacquinetta
3 Desdemona
4 Marks tall (is this a reference to you ?)
5 Wendy's Gold
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Re Blonde Inge, yes it is a new acquisition from a reputable source so hopefully then next year it will do it's thing properly. Thanks for posting the picture of what it will look like. So little time...so much to learn!
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Another foundling snowdrop - which I did not have permission to remove. I did not look too closely at the leaves but it was amongst a huge clump of plicates so I imagine it is plicate also. Does it resemble a known cultivar?
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Alan I was told last night albinos are stable unfortunately green tips arent so look after you new find and see what it does next year
Here is an example of unstable green
'Mini Me' last year
'Mini Me' this year
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Here is Blewberry tart. All I can say is why????????????
Is this all it does???
If this had appeared in my garden as a seedling I would probably put it on the compost heap
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simply found in Blewbury and a play on words
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I think Ian means why bother growing it! The snowdrop shown above as Desdemona looks like my mystery one.
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Blewbury Tart is much greener than a typical double and the flowers tend to face upwards for a while until the flower matures. I think it is much more attractive than the common nivalis flora pleno which, to my mind, only looks good when viewed en-masse from a distance.
It also illustrates the value of a good name when 'marketing' a plant. For example, it had been my ambition to breed an Aster in order to call it Aster La Vista - but somebody beat me to it!
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John I have no idea about your doubles, sorry. Mark's Tall, from me?, seems to have a very big 'heart'
from my own garden
nivalis ex Slovakia a lovely tall elegant snowdrop with ribbed inners
I'll add Snowflakes here. If only mine looked like this!
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..........It also illustrates the value of a good name when 'marketing' a plant. For example, it had been my ambition to breed an Aster in order to call it Aster La Vista - but somebody beat me to it!
I'm still chuckling about that one ;D
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just been to the bulb log and see Ian has posted the same group of Leucojums as I showed above
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Anne you are absolutely right that is what I meant about Blewberry tart. Perhaps when you get complete white blindness they are all lovely but this one seems well just nothing
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In the advertising for the little Holden (Opel) Astra car that is sold here and in Australia, the girl, as she abandons her boyfriend and goes off with the guy in the Astra, yells out "Astra la Vista Baby!"
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One for Alan b taken in Walsingham estate Norfolk...now you can see why they are called snowdrops!
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Unlike Blewberry Tart, poor thing, this wood IS a pretty sight, Brian!
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see anything unusual?
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Not this time, but hope to go again next week for a better look ;-)
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Trees? ::). In the UK the car would be a Vauxhall Astra. I had one. I was a star! Did as many miles in the same length of time as Michael Moore did when he tried, and failed, to justify cheap petrol prices in his neck of the, possibly, trillium covered woods.
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Today I found a green tipped well marked navalis in a garden centre. Time will tell how it behaves. Nothing compared to the orange shaded and all green pocs found in the UK and Europe this year
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Hi Mark
nice find - I have purchased a couple of bits from garden centres myself this year but nothing too exciting.
Do you think we are likely to see pictures of the orange or all green snowdrops posted on the SRGC forum? They sound very interesting.
cheers
John
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If you go through this months pages you will see an orange gracilis. In the Dunblane thread you will see a good green tipped poc. Owner secret for the time being
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thanks Mark - I must have missed them whilst getting into the holiday spirit. I shall try the search facility now and see if it finds them.
cheers
John
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This nivalis snowdrop was growing on a nearby bank. I thought the small marking made it look quite interesting so I took a photograph. Somehow the photograph now seems more striking than I thought the snowdrop was at the time. Does anybody else think I should go back and collect it? Is it garden-worthy?
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That is a pretty form, Alan. Ask permission of the landowner to see if you may collect some.
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Several years ago I purchased some Galanthus kemulariae from PC. Artjuschenko places it in lagodechianus (see pic 2), but these were about a metre from a clump of the latter, which grows and flowers like a weed, and has never flowered until this year. Two years ago I moved the bulbs (both the three of them) and this year I have two flowers. Chris Brickell suggests that kemulariae is distinct. I'm with him (and it's his round). I also photographed two forms of woronowii, the first from the States, came as krasnovii; the second is a garden centre clump now struggling on in my lawn.
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Here is Galanthus 'Merlin', G. plicatus 'Augustus' and G. xallenii.
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I know I am going to regret this, will I never learn?......Doesn't that G. plicatus 'Augustus' look very like 'Diggory'?
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If you close your eyes and look the other way Maggi, they are identical ;). Actually, 'Diggory' look like a squashed 'Augustus' - as if the tip of the flower has been slightly pressed onto a flat surface.
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what about the inner markings, do they differ or is the flat bottom really the only difference?
(sorry for delay in follow up question, I was watching "Lewis" on telly,I love a whodunnit !
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Not sure: I think they are similar?
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Well, if Mark's snowie mugshot 'book' is correct, they don't look much the same at all!
See these two pix:
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/plicatus-augustus.html
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/plicatus-diggory.html
I knew I shouldn't have asked :-[
Going back to Alan b's "Spots" on a previous page... Galanthus mid February to March 2007
« Reply #56 on: Today at 09:56:03 AM »
Don't they look very like the one I like the sound of, 'Gloucester Old Spot' ?...compare them to Mark's pic :
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/nivalis-gloucester-old.html
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Well spotted Maggi.
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Anthony, I'm tempted to add Punmaster General to your title!
I see that Martin B is online, he may give us the benefit of his snowie wisdom re Diggory etc ?
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From the outside 'Diggory' and 'Augustus' do look similar. I happen to prefer 'Augustus' over 'Diggory' which is very convenient given the price and availability of the latter. You can look at it as 'Augustus' being a poor man's 'Diggory' until you look inside of course!
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No cultivars, but species from Turkey.
The one in the foreground has strange longitudinal grooves all over
the leaves. In the background Galanthus krasnovii.
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Maggi, sorry I missed your invite to join in the Diggory/Augustus discussion late last night. I just logged on for a minute or two before bed. I've almost forgotten what snowdrops look like this year, so busy with work and little time to get out in the garden or anyone else's garden. Diggory has a rather more solid green inner mark, while Augustus is more X-shaped. But you never need the marking to tell them apart. As Anthony says, Diggory is very flat-bottomed like it's been squashed down onto a surface, completely unique. They do both have similar textured 'bobbly' outer petals, and sometimes Augustus does look a bit like it;s trying to be Diggory (for the extra dosh). I'm not convinced it's the most beautiful snowdrop in the world, but many galanthophiles are.
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Your 'strange' snowdrop is interesting Thomas. Any ideas? Which part of Turkey?
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Last summer/autumn we decided on a new crevice bed in part of the garden but after starting construction the work kept getting put off for various very good reasons.During the 'put off' period old compost kept being stockpiled on a piece of ground alongside; the ground contained some snowdrops, but the compost was going to be used long before they started growing - recognise the scenario?
Today, on holiday, we finished the crevices and used the compost. Whilst shifting the compost we came across snowdrops with the expected yellow leaves but also IN FLOWER underground! A new way of explaing that bit of bare ground to visitors but somehow I don't see it catching on.
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David - you should take some pictures and sell them quickly on ebay as a new rare yellow form - you could make a fortune...
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Thomas the only snowdrop with lines/furrows on the leaves, I believe, is G. koenenianus.
What conditions do you give krasnovii? How long have you had it? I think mine should be outside rather than a pot
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Mark, krasnovii likes soil than doesn't dry out. Mine are in the garden and one clump is just out (west facing) the other (south facing) is just poking through the soil.
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Hi All
have just found this webpage whilst having a browse on the net.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/main.jhtml?xml=/gardening/2007/01/26/gfront26.xml
I had heard of the £71 for a Diggory - but does anyone know what snowdrop bulb was purchased for £150?
cheers
John
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I would guess 'South Hayes'?
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I heard today that one man bought practically everthing being auctioned at the Mid Anglia AGS bulb day last August. I've booked my flight for this year's day and report what I see.
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There were snowdrop auctions held at the Galanthus Gala in 2006 & 2007.
In 2006 the lack of a P.A. system made it difficult to hear what was going on. I wonder if some people at the back of the hall mistakenly thought they were participating in a charity auction? If my memory is correct, the last item in the auction went for £70-£80 but I'm afraid I cannot remember which snowdrop it was
In 2007 the P.A. system was working perfectly and I don't recall that anything in that auction raised as much as £50.
Are we sure these reports of huge sums paid for a single bulb are genuine? Just because it was reported in a newspaper does not mean it is true.
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I wonder if some people at the back of the hall mistakenly thought they were participating in a charity auction? says Alan b
Well, Alan, that is what the seller of the bulbs must have been feeling! Can't have believed their luck..laughing all the way to the bank!
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Anthony, I don't know exactly from whic part of Turkey my snowdrop is.
But I also think it's koenenianus.
Mark, both grow outside, unprotected in a shaded area, in light, sandy soil.
Received last summer.
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looking around my garden yesterday after work I see the snowdrop season is almost over :'(. It's been too warm here this spring for snowdrops. The worst night this year was -6c. Yester was another day with double figure temperatures +12c. Only one snowdrop still to come and is only just above ground now. It's the green tipped Czech snowdrop nivalis 'Green Ibis'. Even though it is now growing in western Europe it has an eastern Europe inner clock
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Maggi, thank you for your reply to my earlier question. We had a power cut yesterday so I took myself off to see a local area where there are a large number of naturalised snowdrops, all apparently nivalis. There is a tremendous degree of variation there, including snowdrops with green markings on their outer petals, snowdrops with green leaves (like 'Anglesey Abbey'), some with unusually elongated flowers, long pedicels (a la 'Magnet') and several 'Gloucester Old Spot' look-alike snowdrops.
I have come to the conclusion that a 'Gloucester Old Spot' look-alike would not be worthy of a name unless it had a really strong feature that would distinguish it. All such snowdrops still have extensive green markings on the inside of the inner petals, unlike the pure white snowdrop I found earlier this month.
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here is the snowdrop I found in the garden centre last weekend. A much better photo than I showed at the weekend
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I'm curious to know how John Morley's (North Green) auctions work? If he has say, as last year, 5 bulbs of 'South Hayes' and asks for annonymous bids, do the five highest bidders each pay what they've bid, or pay the lowest of the five winning bids? I know that £36.50 (or thereabouts) failed to win one last year.
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Anthony, as I understand it, each of the winning bidders pays what they bid, as if they'd each bid for an individual bulb in five separate auctions. I'm not going to say what I think about such bulb auctions (I might get censured by the powers that be). Except to say that it doesn't seem like the best way to ensure a plant gets firmly and widespreadly established in cutlivation, to auction off just 5 bulbs that would b e better employed for propagation. Much better, if your main aim is to get a beautiful new variety established in gardens, to chip those 5 to get 30-60 bulbs, sell half at a more affordable price, chip again and get a hundred or more...until gardeners can afford to buy 3 or 4 bulbs to ensure success. Single bulbs on their own in gardens can be such a gamble.
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I should probably say that the obvious exception to what I've just said would be where a cultivar is unstable when repeatedly chipped from previously-chipped bulbs, and does not reliably come true; so that to be sure of getting bulbs for sale true to the original, the grower can only chip bulbs produced naturally by division from the original clump, which slows things down a lot.
In such a case, the problem should be made very clear to potential customers and the gardening world, so that everyone's fully aware that if they chip a bought bulb they may not get flowers true to type, and also that they need to see bulbs in flower before buying, to be sure they're not buying bulbs chipped from chipped bulbs, which may vary from the original.
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Maggi, all this talk of chips does me no good at all. :D
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I know, David, makes you peckish: I've just shared a pizza with Ian!
Martin's comments re said chips are valid, as, in my opinion, are his comments re sales of single bulbs!
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I've tried to make a better photo, but due to dull weather this
is the best I could get:
- Leaves of Galanthus koenenianus
- Galanthus krasnovii
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I've tried to make a better photo, but due to dull weather this
is the best I could get:
- Leaves of Galanthus koenenianus
- Galanthus krasnovii
Thomas - that is much clearer - as you know, I could not work out what the snowdrop in the foreground of your original picture was doing with the leaves of g. krasnovii, when you had said that krasnovii was growing in the background!
The leaves for both your g. koenenianus & your g. krasnovii look absolutely right.
Mark - if I were you, I would get your krasnovii out of its pot straightaway - when I think of krasnovii, I think of the pictures in both the 'Snowdrops' book & 'Genus Galanthus' which show krasnovii flowering in the snow melt, on the edge of a snow field - you need it to be in the ground, where it can be really wet at this time of the year - I grow it in 3 different places in the garden, both light shade & more open (like Thomas, my soil is sandy) & it seems equally happy in its several locations.
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In 2007 the P.A. system was working perfectly and I don't recall that anything in that auction raised as much as £50
Alan - I can recall two that went for £50+ ('The Bride' & 'Lady Fairhaven') & I think that there was possibly another.
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Only one snowdrop still to come and is only just above ground now. It's the green tipped Czech snowdrop nivalis 'Green Ibis'. Even though it is now growing in western Europe it has an eastern Europe inner clock
I hope that you have planted it in a really shady, cool part of your garden, which it will need if it is to flower - I grow all of my nivalis in a north facing bed, in the shade of a beech & hazlewood hedge &, bang on their regular time (in spite of the generally warmer winter that we have had this year) the main crop of them are just starting to emerge/starting to open their flowers - with luck, they will last well into March, with one or two stretching into April.
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OK Chris
I cant believe people on Ebay have pushed the price of 'Lady Elphinstone' to £26 for one. It's usually £8 or £9
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to be sure of getting bulbs for sale true to the original, the grower can only chip bulbs produced naturally by division from the original clump, which slows things down a lot.
Martin - very interested in what you have to say.
I have a single bulb, which I know to be as a result of chipping, but where the 'mother' bulb was produced naturally - my bulb appears to be true to the original.
I am considering getting my bulb chipped. However, I have been getting conflicting advice on the adviseability of doing this - some suggest that I should allow the bulb to settle for a few years before attempting to chip it, others say that provided the bulb is a reasonable size, for the variety, then chipping it now should not be a problem.
If I have correctly understood what you say, whilst there is a risk that the resultant bulbs will not come true, because what I have is a chipped bulb which is true to a 'mother' bulb that was naturally produced, this risk is probably small? Would that be a fair statement?
I would be very grateful for your further thoughts.
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Which form are you talking about Chris? 'South Hayes'?
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Well, I'm confused ??? Is it only some varieties that are 'unstable' when chipped, and if so which ones? Also talking of instability - Please someone tell me how to make Lady Elphinstone come yellow. None of my considerable number are yellow this year :-[ (incidentally all are naturally divided, not chipped)
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Which form are you talking about Chris? 'South Hayes'?
Anthony - I think that 'South Hayes' is probably a good example of the dangers that Martin is flagging.
There was earlier discussion on the Forum about the variation in markings on the outer petals, and I have seen some examples that only have the markings on some of the outer petals, or even none at all.
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Anne none of my 'Ladys' were yellow this year. One was last year. They were moved in 2005
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Also talking of instability - Please someone tell me how to make Lady Elphinstone come yellow. None of my considerable number are yellow this year :-[ (incidentally all are naturally divided, not chipped)
Anne - the usual answer is of course that they take a year or two to settle down after being moved, before reverting to yellow - but in your case it sounds as if the flowers were previously yellow, that you have not disturbed your clump, but that now the flowers have come out green?
If this is the case, I do not have an immediate answer, save to say that, in conjunction with another forumist, I am experimenting by growing a 'Lady Elphinstone' that consistently flowered green in their garden to see if, in a year or two years time, it reverts to yellow in my garden (and they are growing one of mine, which flowers yellow in my garden, to see whether it consistently reverts to green in their garden). The only thoughts at the moment are that it may have something to do with growing/climatic conditions.
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It was South Hayes that I was thinking of in particuar re. instability and chipping, especially in view of earlier discussions about varying outer marks on South Hayes.
Most snowdrops are fine chipped from chipped bulbs, even quite small ones and quite recently chipped ones. I've done it and had no problems with any varieties (although my own chips of South Hayes from a bought chipped bulb have yet to flower!)
But I suspect the odd variety of two with very unusual flower type or marking, probably the result of genetic instability (like South Hayes), may be prone to throwing a genetic wobbly when chipped. If a grower knows of this, then I think they have a duty to let customers know they're encountered the problem.
With a variety that is suspected to do this, I would imagine the further away from the mother bulb you get with chipping 'generations' the more risk of it happening. I can't say for sure, of course. And I don't know if letting a chipped bulb of say South Hayes settle for a year or two might help lower any risk. My instinctive feeling is that it might. But I don't know. The only people who could shed any real light are those growers who have regularly chipped bulbs like South Hayes that seem like they may be variable after propagating.
There is also a broader question about constant rapid multiplication by chipping, in that it may eventually weaken the plant. Experienced nurserymen, I know, have long advocated using the same old stock plants to propagate vegetatively from (whether cuttings, layers, whatever) rather than using recently propagated younger plants for propagating material. The reasoning is, I believe, that in some way you 'age' the plant rapidly if you do the latter (constantly using newly-propagated plants as material to propagate from), that somehow each 'generation' of vegetative propagations away from the original plant makes the variety less robust.
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Most snowdrops are fine chipped from chipped bulbs, even quite small ones and quite recently chipped ones.
Martin - many thanks for your further thoughts, which makes things very clear - I am going to go ahead and get my single bulb chipped.
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I cant believe people on Ebay have pushed the price of 'Lady Elphinstone' to £26 for one. It's usually £8 or £9
Ivycroft Plants have it on their List for £6 a bulb!
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So where's the fish in all this?
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where would we be if all sports are left in the wild? In theory it's illegal to lift Ranunculus ficaria from the wild because it has coloured leaves or unusual flowers but it's OK to spray herbicide on them in the garden. As for snowdrops if we stop someone lifting a few bulbs for a garden or friend something really needs to be done about the 1000s of bulbs that are lifted to supply the garden centre trade
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Re. people seeing South Hayes with variable markings, it's probably also worth bearing in mind that any variation may only be temporary, following recent propagation, and as the bulbs settle down and increase in size in the garden in following years the flowers may return to type. So not neccessarily a reason to panic if the flower you see the first year doesn't exactly match the best examples seen in the books. Snowdrops do seem rather prone to having slightly wobbly genes, hence all the wierd and wonderful variations you can get, not to mention the yellow-green-yellow-green problems with Lady Elphinstone. All my Lady Es have passed away over the years, which is a bit of a relief to be honest, given the constant wondering and worrying when they'd be yellow!
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this summer I planted 3 bulbs of Lady Elphinstone(actually 2 bulbs and one of them I took off the new bulb).
They are all 3 in flower now and lucky me.....they are all yellow.
Is it likely that next year they will be green?
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hello ! A lot of snowdrops are destroyed by bulldozers in the woods too.
it's illegal to bring 1 snowdrop from turkey , but a part of the imported snowdrops will never be sold in the garden centre and are lost forever.
Wim
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I've finally decided to get rid of the silly James Bond avatar with my posts. Replaced it temporarily with the full picture that Maggi once showed of me (cropped for a book publicity pic) from the internet. So now she can see what I was looking at - my second daughter Zuza just after she was born.
Will look for a more suitable avatar pic. But this'll do for now. It's fun to change it around a bit! Anyone else fancy doing the same? You can always change it back again, but how about popping in a different pic of you in the avatar space from time to time, just to add an extra dimension to the posts? Or not.
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yes Wim. At the first Gala I attended one lecture about Turkey showed restaurants and other buildings going up where drifts and snowdrops once were
The law is a farce. Today I learnt that our Environment and Heritage Service has not been fully upholding the law re the protection of bats. The law changed in '95.
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.......avatar pic...... It's fun to change it around a bit! Anyone else fancy doing the same? You can always change it back again, but how about popping in a different pic of you in the avatar space from time to time, just to add an extra dimension to the posts? Or not.
I spotted your change of photo right away, Martin. I think this is a fun idea, look at TOOlie's wardrobe changes for evidence! Has Zuza still got that wonderful dark hair? I was given a suggestion tonight for a change to my avatar....coincidences are all around us.
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Maggi, don't know if you're still up but I've just finished a long stint at the word processor. No, Zuza doesn't have dark hair now. Quite the opposite, though we don't know quite where the blond hair has come from. Here's a pic of the Bax family from last Xmas (minus Dad, taking the photo). Top: mum and step-mum the lurvly Ivi, middle left; 1st daughter Rosie on left (alias step-daughter to evil step-mum Ivi) and no. 1 son (only son, but easily mistaken for daughter) Misho, bottom; the irrepressible Zuza. Don't know why on earth I'm putting this into a thread on snowdrops. But I've been too busy to contribute any snowdrop photos this season. So...a Bax family pic instead.
It also gives me a chance to try uploading a pic to the new forum for (I think) only my second time. So may encourage me to get some garden pics onto the forum (work permitting).
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Martin, is Zuza a chip off the old block then? ;D
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You are a lucky man to have such a family, Martin. I am surprised to see only little green patch is Ivi's necklace! Oh, no, i take that back, Ivi has green earrings, too. Appropriate in more ways than one, eh?
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Yes Anne, Zuza is very much a chip off the old block! She's an incurable joker. has already started drawing cartoons and drives her mother crazy.
By the way, saw the pics of your N. 'Jim Lad' and N. 'Sidora' in the RHS Daffs 'Drops and Tulips Yearbook. Looking very good.
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Blimey - new avatars for Anne and Martin - both improvements in my eyes (tempted to renew mine but the last time I put a new picture of me on here there were comments about how I look like an old man! - My avatar is only the summer 0f 2004 so have I really aged that much?...)
Got home from work looking forward to receiving a parcel of 3 Primrose Warburg's from someone on ebay (but purchased separately from ebay - 2 for me and 1 for my aunt - £12 each - bargain).
It has really spoilt my day - got home - parcel was here - but not at all what was expected!...
the THREE bulbs (Not!)
[attachthumb = 1]
[attachthumb = 2]
The yellow Primrose Warburg Flower (Not!)
[attachthumb = 3]
Now involved in lengthy email complaints to try and get a refund.
the moral of this story:
1) Only buy named plants from reputable sellers
2) If buying on ebay don't be tempted to purchase away from ebay as there is no comeback.
A can of beer is need now!
John
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you can complain to Ebay directly. who are they from? There is a good guy on there - Ombersley Plants. He knows his stuff
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Hard luck John presume you will do something to the sellers reputation
Here is my last snowdrop to come into flower Fieldgate Superb
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Unfortunately I went behind ebay's back and purchased them by sending a cheque directly - I have none of the ebay muscle in this case. The seller actually found my link on the old srgc by searching the web and knew that I was looking for Primrose Warberg (I had put a wanted advert on the old forum) and she contacted me last week directly). She pointed me in the direction of her ebay advert number 200082064916 with a nice picture nicked from somewhere else - definately not what she is selling.
Do you agree that what I have received are not Primrose Warburg, even in a really bad year!?... I may point her in this direction as she, the seller (Toni), has just replied telling me I am wrong. I know Primrose Warburg can have bad years and not be as Yellow - but what I received today definately looks like a common green Nivalis to me.
Cheers
John
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She pointed me in the direction of her ebay advert number 200082064916 with a nice picture nicked from somewhere else - definately not what she is selling.
John - no consolation I know, but this seller has just withdrawn a further sale of her supposed 'Primrose Warburg' (Ebay Item No 200083782649) - the picture that she posted shows a green ovary & green markings.
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thanks Chris
It does make me feel a bit better knowing that my stupidity at falling for this may have stopped someone else being ripped off.
I have learnt for the future that I shall only ever buy from reliable sources that know the provenance of the plants they are selling.
3 cans of lager have made me a lot more chilled out at encountering such a dishonest person. h'Oh well.
With my best wishes
John
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Have another one John 8). It's a personal decision I know, but I will never use Ebay for anything too many people "on the con"!!
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Hi David
doing as instructed.... :P
I have actually got some good bargains off ebay in the past and sold a few bits that have gone to good homes too.
Unfortunately I think in this situation, with something so specialised, that buying from some novice off ebay was probably not the best course to follow - a costly lesson has been learnt - but it really doesn't seem so bad as the fridge gradually empties..... :P
with my best wishes
John
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John, definitely not P. Warburg. She's never green-marked, never has a green ovary, and the mark on the plant you were sold is also the wrong shape, as is the ovary.
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Sorry, I should have given more detail on that - the mark on P. Warburg is much more of a rounded u-shape, and the ovary is much more rounded and shorter. As I said, always bright yellow (mark and ovary_ and in fact the leaves are always a bit yellowish too. So not, in my experience, a yellow that sometimes looks greenish let alone green. Certainly not what you were sent, John.
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Hi all ,
Today I found this picture in the web - it was taken :
24.February1926
With best wishes
Hans
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Nothing is ever new, is it Hans? Not even the white fever!
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Yes Maggi ,
please look here ( also found today in the web )
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My, some of these plant hunters start very young, don't they?
She is in good preparation already for the mountains... see her strong little legs!
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Martin, is Zuza a chip off the old block then? ;D
Anne, just got the joke! ;D Brain obviously too worn-out after late night at the word processor to make comedy connections!
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John maybe your bank can cancel the payment and withdraw the money. If you had paid for it witha fedit card the cc company would have withdrawn the money. Paypay would have done the same. Get a solicitors letter. I assume you still have the adress?
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I have a few elwesii with long petals - 3.5 cm long. Today I visited a friend
with a clump that makes my plants look puny. Hers has 5 cm petals
and a 30 cm long stem.
It is starting to shrivel, unfortunately.
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Diane
5 cm long petals are indeed huge. I suggest you beg some of these bulbs from your friend and see if they will grow to equal size in your garden.
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5cm is good. If we had known a while back I would have gone out measuring. elwesii 'Penelope Ann' has a touch over 4cm petals
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My Augustus has been fantastic this year and here is a unmarked Sam Arnott in amongst an established clump.
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very interesting Ann. I would mark it, move it and see what it does next year
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very interesting Ann. I would mark it, move it and see what it does next year
Ann, just to add to what Mark has said, Matt Bishop's advice is to soak the bulb in fungicide overnight when you move it - it would be sad to lose the snowdrop because of a later fungal attack.
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Not very rare but I thought this little group of snowdrops growing 'wild' on a bank looked rather lovely.
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They certainly do. I visited a wild colony in a local woodland yesterday and they are fantastic to see in such natural plantings.
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A lovely scene and well captured.
I take it that you are a gal called Ann or has that already been dealt with in an earlier posting ???
Just wondering what male equivalents could be in the botanical world.
Boy senberries and man drakes he merocallis and one that I could be associated with He pat icaphile spring to mind. Shame it's my wife called Pat and not me.
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John, I have to confess that it was my suggestion to Ann, a galanthophile to style herself Gal-ANN- thophile... I couldn't resisit it, and she was good sport enough to go along with it! It's a catchy title, though, don't you agree? Your suggestions are fun, too. I do like to have a little added humour to everything in life, it hleps make up for the mice and the slugs and the snails!
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Very witty - I wish I could claim to be that clever with words but as Maggi says I am more than happy to be known as an Ann or gal ann thophile. I love it. Thanks for your kind comments about the pictures - it was a beautiful spot on a perfect spring day.