Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Andrew on November 03, 2008, 01:27:45 PM
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Time to start a new month.
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Crocus laevigatus albus
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Actually flowering :
Crocus speciosus and Crocus cambessedesii ("f.mathewiiformis" 8))
- first one has some regular deformations in the petals - might be a genetical ?
- second is a seedling of seed collected in the wild and sawn 4 or 5 years ago - I was quite surprised to find this flower :D :D :D
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Maggi,
i find a other picture from this white asumaniae
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Thanks, Dirk... now I must begin to study all these styles!
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Between you up there and us down here, there are crocuses all year round! Wonderful. :)
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Time to start a new month.
Crocus laevigatus albus
Hi Andrew,
refering to my thoughts a couple of minutes ago in the Crocus October article to Dirk's pictures I'm getting more puzzeled about the differences between C.boryi, C. tournefortii, very pale form and C. leavigatus albus... :-\
Mystifying and fascinating pretty :o ::)
Who can help the confused? ;D
Hans,
a very attractive this little thing ;)
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Hi Andrew,
refering to my thoughts a couple of minutes ago in the Crocus October article to Dirk's pictures I'm getting more puzzeled about the differences between C.boryi, C. tournefortii, very pale form and C. leavigatus albus... :-\
Mystifying and fascinating pretty :o ::)
Who can help the confused? ;D
SSSHH! [attach=1] Armin, speak quietly: [attach=2] .......we Croconuts must not let the Galanthophiles know that we can sometimes be as confused as they are :-[ :P ::) ;)! [attach=3]
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Yes Maggi! But notice its the little white jobs that are confusing us ???
Crocus boryi and Crocus laevigatus can be very difficult to tell apart although it is only the white forms of the latter that enter the fray. The corms are quite useful in that C laevigatus has a corm with a thick eggshell like tunic while that of boryi is thinner and more papery, also laevigatus corms are usually smaller and rounded at the base while boryi has a flat bottom. (!No comments please :o) Briam Mathew notes that the flowers of C boryi never open out flat in the heat while those of C laevigatus do open flat.
As for the various hybrids that are sometimes illustrated I am always sceptical of the attribution of hybrid status when the individuals fall within the range of variation possible in the parents.
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Armin,
Cr.tournefortii is also open in the night and at cool weather, Cr.boryi not.
I have not a 100 % guarantee, is this pale form a true tournefortii or a cross with
boryi.
Cr.tournefortii , normal form
`` , pure white form
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Crocus kotschyanus kotschyanus HKEP9205 from a friend last year.
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I have not a 100 % guarantee, is this pale form a true tournefortii or a cross with
boryi.
Cr.tournefortii , normal form
`` , pure white form
Dirk - the dark form of C. tournefortii is very handsome.
The white form looks like C. tournefortii but it might be worth comparing the filaments in the two forms. According to B. Mathew the filaments of C. tournefortii are hairy & those of C. boryi are not. It's some years since I had C. tournefortii x boryi but, if I remember correctly, the filaments were hairless. Of course this may be variable.
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SSSHH! [attach=1] Armin, speak quietly: [attach=2] .......we Croconuts must not let the Galanthophiles know that we can sometimes be as confused as they are :-[ :P ::) ;)!
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??? - o.k. Maggi,
I'll keep it secret from now! ;) :-X:D ;D
Tony,
thank you for the detailed descriptions of the fine differences and for your expertise.
Probably one must see the corms in direct comparison to clearly see the differences.
It is a pity that our weather is too cold now to verify the flowers behaviour in full shine as described by B.M.
Dirk,
thank you for posting the pictures for comparing and your honest reply not realy knowing the origin of the white C. tournefortii.
But it has the long style now in this picture!
I have to admit this white one looks more like C. tournefortii ;) ::)
Gerry, thank you for your hint with the filaments. ;)
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Crocus kotschyanus kotschyanus HKEP9205 from a friend last year.
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Wunderful! Andrew.
I got a few spare bulbs from the same source. Mine are not in flower yet.
It will help me to replace from my genetically damaged stock of C. kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus.
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Brian Mathew writes that white C tournefortii occur in parts of Crete and meet C boryi in that area. ..... A recipe for confusion from mother nature there ;)
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Crocus kotschyanus kotschyanus HKEP9205 from a friend last year.
Wunderful! Andrew.
I got a few spare bulbs from the same source. Mine are not in flower yet.
It will help me to replace from my genetically damaged stock of C. kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus.
Did we get them from the same source ?
Do you have the other subsp. ?
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Did we get them from the same source ?
Do you have the other subsp. ?
Yes, you got them from the same source ;)
But Armins plants don't have the white style which is only present in HKEP9205
Great photo, by the way Andrew. Better than my own photos of this plant.
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Armins plants don't have the white style which is only present in HKEP9205.
Great photo, by the way Andrew. Better than my own photos of this plant.
Thank you Thomas, but you always have a better display.
The style is looking rather small this year and I did think that the corms were looking a little undersize to flower when repotting, we will see what happens next year!
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Here is Crocus goulimyi alba flowering at the weekend.
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Visited friend Bill in Maryvale, NS today. Here he is standing next to a 100 year old Betula papyrifera.
I was surprised to see these autumn crocus in bloom in his garden, they are spreading about rather well. I say surprised as I have no luck with any of these fall bloomers except for C. nudiflorus. There was a range of colours amongst the seedlings and one blue I thought nice. He was not sure which species it was but thought it might be C. speciosus (?); the other species he says bloom too late. He has very sandy soil and I guess that's the secret in this climate.
Interesting to see that the roadsigns in Antigonish County are going bilingual - English and Gaelic!
johnw
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Yes C speciosus - nicely naturalised by the look of it.
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C. aleppicus is in flower now, it has many different forms, each typically to its geographical location.
Mt. Hermon, Galilee, coast line etc.
Attached some photos I took.
The second and the last photos are from the type that grows in the northern coast line at sea level, it is very similar to C. veneris from Cyprus.
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Yes C speciosus - nicely naturalised by the look of it.
Thanks Tony.
johnw
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C. aleppicus is in flower now, it has many different forms, each typically to its geographical location.
Oron - Many thanks for sharing these fine photos. That first C. aleppicus is really handsome.
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Anthony,
handsome Crocus goulimyi alba ;)
Oron,
C. aleppicus and its forms are all very attractive. 8)
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John,
C. speciosus does survive up here too, but not as well as in Bill's garden. The best "doer" after nudiflorus is pulchellus 'Zephyr' - a pulchellus x speciosus hybrid I think. C. kotschyanus is OK too in the right site - I seem to remember you now have some of these. I've tried others that do well in my frame in pots when I have surplus corms and cancellatus ssp mazzaricus and banaticus are holding on in sheltered spots. C. medius also held on for a bit but eventually died out - except for one clump that seems to have established itself in a corner of my lawn where I also try things out. Unfortunately the slugs felled all but one of the original four flowers. Anything I can grow you ought to be able to grow better!
On the subject of C. medius I was reading earlier about the virus problem with this species long before mine appeared and since some of mine came from a supplier with Dutch connections (Cruikshanks 1977 - the others were from Col. Marr in 1979) I thought I'd better have a look at them when they came up - at first I thought they were OK, but one early (for me) flower did have the signs, so I winkled the corm out of the pot and burned it. All the others are OK so far, touch wood. Does anyone know how the virus is spread? Through the soil - or does it require an aphid or something? Also are crocus viri species specific?
(The following pictures were taken during the past week or so.)
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Anything I can grow you ought to be able to grow better!
Hmmm Howard, I don't think so. We are prone to late autumn wet followed by deeply frozen soil some years. I doubt it ever freezes as deeply and as often over your way judging from the Hebes I see over there. And extreme cold is short lived your way (ie for the Europeans below -12c) Any bulb that needs a good dry period for ripening is problematic here (and with you as well) unless dried out in summer in the root zone of a greedy tree, but then they tend to starve to death in time. I have never kept a Crocus speciosus alive for more than two years and yet in the Annapolis Valley I saw lawns covered in them.
Any bulb that enjoys holding its leaves for as long as possible seems do well here - thinking Narcissus, Fritillaria meleagris, some Galanthus etc.
Lovely pot of Crocus in your photo.
I guess every climate has its own good-doers and interesting to compare notes.
Hope to see you as going over on the 18th until the 21st.
The first Galanthus in a pot came out last weekend. G. corcyrensis.
johnw
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Howard thats the best clump of C medius I've ever seen! All those look clean to me. The virus is spread by contact so our intervention may be responsible. Here aphids which often lurk unseen on leaf reverses are a vector and there has been discussion here about the possibility of pollinators (especially the nectar drinkers) adding to the problem. I would guess that aphids cannot overwinter so easily in your climate as they do here where hard frost and snow are increasingly rare. Nematodes underground may also be vectors but I think they should not effect pot grown species kept dry in summer.
Are they specific to crocus? I guess not but would welcome expert feedback.
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I think slugs and snails can be virus spreaders on the plant and into the soil...... paranoid, yes, I probably am! :-\ :-X
Howard, that pot of C. medius is STUNNING! Love 'em!!
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A not too technical account of plant viruses, their effects & how they are spread can be found on: http://www.microbiologybytes.com/virology/Plant.html
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I would guess that aphids cannot overwinter so easily in your climate as they do here where hard frost and snow are increasingly rare.
That's outside Tony, but in my frame it rarely gets much below zero. Actually I've never noticed any aphids, but slugs, snails, carpenters (NF for woodlice), and earwigs we do get. Up to now I've never sterilised my pots, just washed them out; I think I'll be more careful in future.
Looking forward to seeing you again John.
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A few in bloom yesterday. Feel free to correct names.
Crocus mathewii
Crocus pallasii
Crocus laevigatus fonteyani
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The link that Gerry gave is very informative but also very scary. I had always been led to believe that the seed embryo was 'clean' but apparently this should not be taken for granted.
The aphids here are found throughout the garden so a hard winter would help reduce the supply of aphids which will always be present no matter how good my plant hygene.
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Michael, such lovely clear photos!
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Great pix Michael !
Here's some from me, having flowered in the past few weeks - I'm fairly new in autumn flowering Crocus and these came as a good start from Tony G. (thanks again Tony ! :D) :
Crocus kotschyanus
C. cartwrightianus albus
C. hadriaticus (M5048)
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Luc,
Lovely pot of Crocus in your photo.
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And the virus spreads very quickly. I had a small group of C. medius, absolutely clean for years. Summer of 06/07 I imported 6 Australian corms which flowered with the same stripes as Howard's and this last autumn all my originals had it too.! :'(
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The link that Gerry gave is very informative but also very scary. I had always been led to believe that the seed embryo was 'clean' but apparently this should not be taken for granted.
I've always believed this too, on the basis of the published opinions of recognised authorities on bulbous plants. However, on reflection, it's not at all clear why anyone should think this. Eggs and pollen grains are, after all, just parts of the plant. Why should they be exempt from viral infection?
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The link that Gerry gave is very informative but also very scary. I had always been led to believe that the seed embryo was 'clean' but apparently this should not be taken for granted.
I've always believed this too, on the basis of the published opinions of recognised authorities on bulbous plants. However, on reflection, it's not at all clear why anyone should think this. Eggs and pollen grains are, after all, just parts of the plant. Why should they be exempt from viral infection?
I always thought it was to do with speed of growth. That cell growth in seed formation is so fast that there isn't usuallu time for the virus to invade the seed embryo from the parent plant before the seed is fully formed with a protective hardened seed coat that keeps out the virus. So the seed 'leaves the virus behind' in the same sort of way that rapid meristem growth leaves behind the virus in microropagation - the new cells grow so fast that any virus in the original tiny piece of plant material can't spread as fast as the new growth, so gets left behind in the dying old material. I also assumed that the fast cell growth after seed germination could work the same way, leaving any virus behind in the seed. But what I've read recently suggests that if conditions are not ideal for seed formation, eg in unusually low temperatures (say during a cold winter) then seed development may be slowed enough to allow the virus to get into the seed embryo before the seed coat forms to protect it. I would hope that, especially with warmer winters, that means there's still a very good chance of getting clean stock from seeds. With my snowdrop seed raising over the last 10 years or so, I haven't noticed much if any virus in my seedlings, and virus in snowdrops is usually very quick to produce obvious leaf symptoms.
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I always thought it was to do with speed of growth. That cell growth in seed formation is so fast that there isn't usuallu time for the virus to invade the seed embryo from the parent plant before the seed is fully formed with a protective hardened seed coat that keeps out the virus. So the seed 'leaves the virus behind' in the same sort of way that rapid meristem growth leaves behind the virus in microropagation - the new cells grow so fast that any virus in the original tiny piece of plant material can't spread as fast as the new growth, so gets left behind in the dying old material.
Martin - this is what I have always thought too. But is there any evidence for this view? On the face of it, one might think that the replication of a cell (relatively complex) would be slower than the replication of a virus (relatively simple).
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A few in bloom yesterday. Feel free to correct names.
Crocus mathewii
Crocus pallasii
Crocus fonteyani
Hallo Michael,
very nice pictures from autuum species you show us. C. mathewii is a fantastic with its unique color combination 8).
C. pallasii is a lovely crocus too.
Finally, I also like the last picture of C. laevigatus "Fonteyani" 8)
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I always thought it was to do with speed of growth. That cell growth in seed formation is so fast that there isn't usuallu time for the virus to invade the seed embryo from the parent plant before the seed is fully formed
Martin - this is what I have always thought too. But is there any evidence for this view? On the face of it, one might think that the replication of a cell (relatively complex) would be slower than the replication of a virus (relatively simple).
I assumed it would be based on straightforward microscopic observation of cell growth in seed formation and virus growth. It's been proven to work with fast meristem growth in micro-propagation, as that's how micro-prop cleans up virussed plants like lilies, producing much healthier, virus-free plants from plants that had a heavy virus load. Of course meristem micro-prop is done in idea conditions, so I can see how temperature variations outside the micro-prop lab could affect the result.
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some flowers today,
Crocus cartwrightianus, a native white form
`` caspius, rose form
`` serotinus ssp.serotinus from S-Portugal
`` veneris from Cyprus
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More pictures from Jim Kee in Delaware..... these of C. laevigatus. These are the white form with the golden yellow markings on the outside with a little form from Crete growing next to them.
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Stunning picture from Jim and Dirk ! :o
Dirk,
that pink C. caspius is absolutely delightful !!!
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I have to acknowledge the comment from Luc. Absolut stunning :o
It is remarkable how a species can vary. The white C. laevigatus form with the yellow markings outside and the very branched style compared to the form from crete and the "fonteyani" Michael showed us :o
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Dirk - I can only echo Luc & Armin. The rose pink C. caspius is simply beautiful.
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The white C. laevigatus is a stunner
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The C. medius are almost over now - it's easy to get a clump like that, all you have to do is to put a dozen fat corms into an 11 cm pot! I'm still amazed how well most species will grow in such a tiny space even though I've been doing it for years.
Crocus tournefortii is a bit earlier for me that usual, and, of course fully open despite the dull weather we've been having lately. My stock of C. goulimyi has been augmented by three corms from Janis Ruksans supplied as subsp. leucanthus, but, as I hope you can see the middle one of the three is very pale lilac and the other two pure white. I'm not sure of the taxonomy here as Mathew doesn't mention the paler forms. Unlike the others in the frame they have grown rather tall in the poor light. I see one flower coming up outside too in my trial bed, perhaps like the medius they'll do better in the lawn.
I've some old selected C. speciosus hanging on on the rock garden (they seem to be the only plant I know of that isn't smothered by Bolax!) and am not sure of the variety - it may be 'Artibir'. They are all slug eaten and this is the best specimen could find - any suggestions?
I agree, those white laevigatus are stunning, I wish I could grow more outside.
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I've some old selected C. speciosus hanging on on the rock garden (they seem to be the only plant I know of that isn't smothered by Bolax!) and am not sure of the variety - it may be 'Artibir'. They are all slug eaten and this is the best specimen could find - any suggestions?
Howard, this plant doesn't look like the form I have as Artabir, but I still can't be sure that my plant is true.
No better suggestion which cultivar your plant is, sorry :-\
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Howard I think your Crocus tournefortii is the wrong way round - lying on it's side.
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A rose pink crocus - gosh! If that is a constant feature I think there will be a queue a mile long for offsets from that one! :o
Edit: refers to pic of rose pink Crocus caspius on previous page...Reply #41 on: November 09, 2008, 04:04:34 PM »
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My stock of C. goulimyi has been augmented by three corms from Janis Ruksans supplied as subsp. leucanthus, but, as I hope you can see the middle one of the three is very pale lilac and the other two pure white. I'm not sure of the taxonomy here as Mathew doesn't mention the paler forms.
Howard - there are accounts of C. goulimyi leucanthus in AGS Bulletins vol 61,p316 (which I don't have) & vol 64,p429 (which I do) where it is described as a variety. I don't know when it was elevated to subsp. status nor on what basis. It is likely that most of the plants grown in the UK come from a Steve Keeble collection made near Monemvasia in 1992. The plants are described as either white or pale lilac. Plants I have raised from Steve Keeble seed are all white though I have a bicoloured plant received as subsp leucanthus. Whether it is I don't know nor do I know how one decides; BM's 1982 update sheds no light on the matter.
Until you have a number of corms I would be cautious about trying it outside. It doesn't like it here.
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Here' what Brian Mathew writes in the AGS bulletin vol 61,p316 :
the article is "A New Crocus Variant" and addresses Crocus goulimyi and its forms.
" During the period when it (refers to C. goulimyi, in Dutch cultivation)was pleantiful, a lovely white form occurred among the ordinary coloured forms in a nursery bed and this was originally propagated and distributed by Michael Hoog. It proved to be just as vigorous as the stock from which it had arisen, although it is stil not a common plant.As far as I know, this has always been dubbed 'Alba', which it what so frequently happens to white forms, but the nomenclatural code does not recommend this approach, preferring names such as 'Bowles White' ( in the case of the albino C. sieberi ). Since this white C. goulimyi is a clone, and an excellent one, I propose the name of C. goulimyi 'ManiWhite'for thisparticular albino variant.
A white version was also recorded in the wild in a population of the normally coloured forms on the Mani peninsula in 1991 by Steve Keeble, and he noted that it looked just like the form in cultivation."
There is an accompanying photo of a large spread of Crocus goulimyi var. leucantha (sic) taken near Monemvasia, SE Greek Peloponnese by Steve Keeble.
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Maggi - thanks for this. I edited my post while you were posting yours.
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Here is the entry in the RBG Kew Monocot Checklist:
Names in bold indicate accepted names, plain list indicates non accepted names.
Crocus goulimyi Turrill, Kew Bull. 10: 59 (1955).
Crocus goulimyi f. albus B.Mathew, Bot. Mag. (Kew Mag.) 1: 73 (1984).
Crocus goulimyi var. goulimyi.
Crocus goulimyi subsp. leucanthus (B.Mathew) B.Mathew, Bot. Chron. 13: 257 (2000).
Crocus goulimyi var. leucanthus B.Mathew, Ann. Mus. Goulandris 9: 168 (1994 publ. 1995).
It would seem that 'leucanthus' has reverted to varietal status.
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Thanks Maggi and Gerry. This forum is such a wonderful source of information 8)
Congrats on your latest award by the way Maggi - although to acknowledge your contribution to the forum half adequately it should have been the key to Willy Wonka's entire establishment ::) ;D ;D ;D
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How easy it is to err when you don't read the small print ... var and ssp have certainly become confused in my mind where C goulimyi leucanthus is concerned. I will check my literature when I get home but doubtless Gerry has it right when he goes to Kew! It looks like I for one have been guilty of perpetuating this mistake.
The RHS Plantfinder lists ssp leucanthus but then it would as this is what is offered by so many.
Notably JJAseeds (AKA the unimpeachable Jim & Jenny Archibald) offer VAR leucanthus.
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Maggi you have just made me go and sort my bulletin collection in to date order
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I remember that Thomas asked me if I could possibly a field with autumn flowering Crocus.
In my neighbourhood only small quantities are grown but I knew that in the NW. part of Holland it is more likely to find such a field.
But with the Dutch windy and rainy weather in autumn, you have to be very lucky to see such a field in full glory.
This week I saw in the Dutch horticultural journal 'Bloembollenvisie' a recent picture of
a field of about 14000 m² and I made a picture of it.
Crocus speciosus
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:o :o Wow - thanks Luit :-*
I think it will need some more years until my garden looks like this.
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Luit, an extraordinary sight.... I didn't know so many of these crocus existed!!
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A little puzzle for you, flowering now but what is it (sorry for the dull picture, it's the same outside and has been all day) ?
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Andrew,
I tend to say this treasury is possibly C. aleppicus from Syria/Lebanon.
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I'll give it a WOW also
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A little puzzle for you, flowering now but what is it (sorry for the dull picture, it's the same outside and has been all day) ?
Crocus biflorus ssp melantherus
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A little puzzle for you, flowering now but what is it (sorry for the dull picture, it's the same outside and has been all day) ?
Crocus biflorus ssp melantherus
BD and I second that, for what it's worth! I do see what Armin gets his aleppicus suggestion from, though..... orange throat and lovely outer veining......it'd be good to see the inside when it opens on the next sunny day!! ::)
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Crocus goulimyi var. goulimyi.
Crocus goulimyi subsp. leucanthus (B.Mathew) B.Mathew, Bot. Chron. 13: 257 (2000).
Crocus goulimyi var. leucanthus B.Mathew, Ann. Mus. Goulandris 9: 168 (1994 publ. 1995).
It would seem that 'leucanthus' has reverted to varietal status.
That's odd as the subsp. entry has the later date. As I understand, in general geographically distinct populations that cannot mix their genes are considered subsp. while a var. occurs within the area of the main population - and then there's the forma too at a lower level still. I understand that taxon leucanthus is a distinct population. I guess one taxonomist's var. is another's subsp.!
By the way my outdoor "goulimyi" turned out to be a misplaced medius growing up under the wrong label.
Another possibility for my dark blue speciosus according to my notes is 'Cassiope', but they all look pretty similar to me!
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Crocus 'Cassiope' is not a name I know, Howard :(
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Crocus 'Cassiope' is not a name I know, Howard :(
Maggi, this Crocus is registered for a long time already.
Crocus Cassiope, speciosus autumnfl.;
sel. by Tubergen, haarlem, anilin-blueyellow base, late, large-flowering
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My 'Cassiope' hasnt flowered since 2005 after which it broke down in to small corms.
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That's odd as the subsp. entry has the later date.
Presumably whoever was responsible for the decision about names does not accept the argument for subspecific status & therefore the earlier varietal name has priority. In his 1982 update BM is extremely vague about the differences between the supposed subspecies. Apart from the colour difference (usually of little taxonomic significance), in subsp. leucanthus "there is probably also a subtle difference in flower size & shape, although much observation is required to ascertain if this is real or imagined".
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I had corms way back in the 60s as Crocus speciosus `Cassiope.' It was imported from Van Tubergens and was a soft blue, heavily veined darker. Haven't got it now. :'(
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I had corms way back in the 60s as Crocus speciosus `Cassiope.'
Ah, so well before my time, then , Lesley [attach=1]
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The Kew source that Gerry used further states that subspecies leucanthos was not accepted by the World Checklist of Seed Plants database in 2001. So it seems that var leucanthos is currently correct.
However, my understanding of subspecies and var definitions accords with Howard's statements - so I'm confused....... I have visited the population of 'thingame' leucanthos at Foutia near Monemvasia and this is, as Howard says, a discrete population - a couple of pix below. The colour here is predominatly white and there are none of the usual bicolour form seen elsewhere. However, many have just the faintish hint of lilac. In the populations of subsp/var goulimyi there are also sporadic white and near-white plants, but never reaching a significant percentage.
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Dave & Howard -
Howard writes: "As I understand, in general geographically distinct populations that cannot mix their genes are considered subsp." What is one to understand by "cannot"? The dandelions in Brighton cannot, as a matter of fact, mix their genes with the dandelions in Aberdeen. Does this make them distinct subspecies? I think not. Therefore, if "cannot" is to have any significance it must mean rather more than "as a matter of fact do not". It must mean something like "are unable to". I have no idea whether the distinct populations of the two prongs of the Peloponnese are unable to mix their genes & I wonder whether there is any evidence one way or the other on the question?
Like most classifications, BM's treatment of Crocus (including his treatment of infraspecific taxa) is primarily based on traditional morphological criteria; geography plays, at best, a secondary role &, not surprisingly, population genetics hardly enters the discussion.
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More interesting comments re Crocus goulimyi subsp/var leucanthus. Thanks especially to Dr Dave for the wild population observations. I don't especially like splitting plants into subsp on colour alone. So many crocus have albino forms that this distinction is usually meaningless. However where the populations in a distinct area are uniformly white it is easier to justify the split. But in gardens and with plants grown from cultivated seed how can these two plants be distinguished? Some C goulmiyi goulimyi are very pale or bicolored and white forms have arisen in cultivation. The truth is that without knowing the wild origins of a white/pale lilac plant it is not possible to distinguish between the two supposed subspecies. I prefer varietal status for this reason.
Aaah ... you may say "what about Crocus vernus subspecies albiflorus?" Well that one is distinct by its high altitude habitats and it is often lilac or striped in colour. But even here it can be different to determine in cultivated specimens.
It would be boring if it was all straightforward!! ;)
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Crocus vernus subspecies albiflorus ... is often lilac ... It would be boring if it was all straightforward!!
In my innocence, I though albiflorus meant white flowers ::) ::) it could never be boring!
My C goulimyi leucanthus do have a tinge of lilac, but is "Mani White" a pure white clone
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Dave - My apologies. I became so preoccupied with the taxonomic questions that I forgot to say how much I enjoyed your pics of the plants near Monemvasia. One of the pleasures of this forum is seeing virtually plants in the wild that one will never see in reality.
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My C goulimyi leucanthus do have a tinge of lilac, but is "Mani White" a pure white clone
Yes Mani White is a white clone (of 'ssp' goulimyi) although when viewed adjacent to C goulimyi leucanthus it looks a little creamy.
Here are a few crocus photographed on the odd sunny day in the last couple of weeks.
Crocus laevigatus - white form
Crocus laevigatus - seedlin from the previous form. Note the big dark blotch on the outer petals suggesting a intra-specific hybrid with another form of C laevigatus
Crocus laevigatus seedling mix
Crocus oreocreticus
Crocus thomasii - 2 forms. The very wide open one was 'forced' indoors, they do not usually open so flat here.
Crocus speciosus -from Armenia but with a yellow throat and creamy anthers suggesting hybrid with C pulchellus. Note also the pale golden wash on the outer petals. Zhirair - are you watching this? Can you advise.
And lastly the two white C goulimyi
First are 2nd generation seedlings of C goulimyi Mani White.
Second is C goulimyi leucanthus from wild collected seed.
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And lastly the two white C goulimyi
First are 2nd generation seedlings of C goulimyi Mani White.
Second is C goulimyi leucanthus from wild collected seed.
Tony - the last plant looks distinctly bicoloured in the photo & very like a plant I had from Kath Dryden as C. goulimyi leucanthus. Dave comments above that he saw no bicoloured forms near Monemvasia. Where was your seed from?
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The plants illustrated came from seed collected by Steve Keeble in 2000. The collection came with a KKK number, the K's for three places beginning with K not 3 Keebles! You may be able to help with where these places are as right now the information eludes me.
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The following are pictures taken at the classic Goulimyi var leucantha site in 2005, plus a shot from the .Monument ' site near Areopolis of Goulimyi ssp goulimyi for comparison. I will post shots from this year later as I have yet to download from the camera.
This year there were fewer bicolours at Foutia, indeed I would say that the Crocus were in danger of being outnumbered by the Cyclamen - they put on a fantastic scented display.
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The following are pictures taken at the classic Goulimyi var leucantha site in 2005, plus a shot from the .Monument ' site near Areopolis of Goulimyi ssp goulimyi for comparison. I will post shots from this year later as I have yet to download from the camera.
This year there were fewer bicolours at Foutia, indeed I would say that the Crocus were in danger of being outnumbered by the Cyclamen - they put on a fantastic scented display.
Now that raises an important question. Are the apparently all white populations really all white or are there lilac and bicolored plants which flower at slightly different times? Does what you see depend on when you are there? Clearly from Arts records there are quite strongly lilac flowered plants among some populations of C goulimyi leucanthus which further blurs the distinction between the two putative subspecies.
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Tony - Sorry I have no relevant info. The only seed ex Steve Keeble I have had came from Jim Archibald's cultivated plants in 1999. I assume it was derived from SK's 1992 collection. It produced only all-white plants as Jim Archibald states in his list.
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I had corms way back in the 60s as Crocus speciosus `Cassiope.' It was imported from Van Tubergens and was a soft blue, heavily veined darker. Haven't got it now. :'(
Hi Lesley
I have C.speciosus 'Cassiope'. If you want, i will be able to send you some seeds
next year in summer (I believe that you cannot receive bulbills ?!)
Dom
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Gerry,
I agree, my use of the word "cannot" was too strong. However, there has to be some morphological distinction too. Your example of dandelions was a bad one, by the way, Taraxicum officinale is apomictic and doesn't exchange its genes with anything - hence its success!
As far as the ultimate authority on naming is concerned I think it's something botanical rather than a seed list. But they are changing their minds all the time! I think it's not incorrect to use an unfashionable name as long as the full attribution of authority and date are given, but how cumbersome is that? I think when we are being gardeners what matters most is that our fellow gardeners know what we are talking about - if we are being botanists then it's a different matter, but this is a gardener's forum.
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Howard - Thanks. I stand corrected, careless of me. Choose some other plant or dandelions from non-apomictic populations (which I believe exist).
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I think when we are being gardeners what matters most is that our fellow gardeners know what we are talking about - if we are being botanists then it's a different matter, but this is a gardener's forum.
I'll second that opinion although I am always glad when someone more knowledgeable can increase my botanical understanding.
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Crocus biflorus ssp melantherus
BD and I second that, for what it's worth! I do see what Armin gets his aleppicus suggestion from, though..... orange throat and lovely outer veining......it'd be good to see the inside when it opens on the next sunny day!! ::)
There's no pulling the wool over your eyes ! Have you seen them in the 'wild' Tony ?
The sun was out today so here is a better shot of the outside,
[attach=1]
and the inside.
[attach=2]
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No - not seen it in the wild - yet! When shall we go?
I have seen a form with similar markings and at this time of year I had no other suggestions.
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A friend has sent me this photograph of a crocus she saw growing in Lefkas Island in Greece. Any identification offers?
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Here's a contribution to this November crocus thread from USDA zone 7 Montgomery County, Maryland, USA: Crocus hermoneus. This has been a good doer here, although I grow it lean and dry in a cold frame and don't get increase. But it does bloom yearly.
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Anne
I think your friend's Crocus is boryi. Hope the experts agree :)
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I'm no expert, but I'm with Arthur on Crocus boryi for Anne's friend's Greek Crocus!
There's a pic here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2004/031104/log.html
It's one of my favourites :D
Jim, I do like your C. hermoneus, but how frustrating for you that it is shy to increase :(
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Dominique, that is very kind of you and I'll happily accept your offer of seed later. You are right, we can't accept corms, even tiny ones, without MASSES of paperwork and red tape and dollars. >:( :'(
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Just starting to flower and under a cloche to stop the b....y awful weather spoiling the flowers. This form of Niveus is late flowering Nov/Dec
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Andrew
I was lucky to see Crocus melantherus at two sites. The following were on Mount Didima near to the town of Nafplio
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Crikey! Aren't they lovely?
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Crikey! Aren't they lovely?
Wait until you see the rest!!! 8)
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Here's a white flowered form of Crocus goulimyi photographed in late October of 2006. I assume this is 'Mani White'; it was received long ago as Crocus goulimyi albus from a UK supplier, probably before the name 'Mani White' had been published. Can anyone guess what the red foliage is? I didn't plan this, it just happened. Well, it sort-of just happened: once I saw what a nice contrast there is between the foliage and the flowers, I gathered up a few more of the red leaves to add to the effect.
I've had Crocus goulimyi from several sources and they all do well here. A typical Maryland winter brings temperatures lower than any usually experienced in Aberdeen or much of coastal, western Europe.
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Here's a white flowered form of Crocus goulimyi photographed in late October of 2006. I assume this is 'Mani White'; it was received long ago as Crocus goulimyi albus from a UK supplier, probably before the name 'Mani White' had been published.
Jim, your C. goulimyi looks quite white, as discussed elsewhere C. goulimyi 'Mani White' is cream coloured, very noticeable when you have a true white next to it, but probably a bit harder to see when it's on its own.
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No - not seen it in the wild - yet! When shall we go?
It's getting a bit late this year by the time everything is sorted out and I expect you would need a bit more notice anyway. Any holiday plans for next year?
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Here's a white flowered form of Crocus goulimyi photographed in late October of 2006. I assume this is 'Mani White'; it was received long ago as Crocus goulimyi albus from a UK supplier, probably before the name 'Mani White' had been published.
Jim, your C. goulimyi looks quite white, as discussed elsewhere C. goulimyi 'Mani White' is cream coloured, very noticeable when you have a true white next to it, but probably a bit harder to see when it's on its own.
Hmm.. 'Mani White' as grown by me has rather acute petals which give a more well defined triangular shape to the flower than exhibited by other forms of C. goulimyi. Jim's plants seem to incline in this direction. I think colour is, to some extent, in the eye of the beholder & I'm not sure I would describe 'Mani White' as 'cream' although to my eyes it is different to the colour of the white form of C. goulimyi var. leucanthus which I would describe as 'dead white' (but I suspect this would mean little to anyone else). Hythe Alpines used to offer a white form of C.goulimyi var. goulimyi which they claimed was distinct from 'Mani White' but I've never seen it.
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Ian, what a wonderful late form of Crocus niveus - I've never seen such a bright yellow stem on any of my plants!
Anne, I fully agree with Arthur and Maggi: Your friends plant is Crocus boryi.
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Hythe Alpines used to offer a white form of C.goulimyi var. goulimyi which they claimed was distinct from 'Mani White' but I've never seen it.
Gerry, I have the Hythe white form and that is what I am going by. I was going to photograph C. goulimyi var leucanthus, 'Mani White' and the white form together to show the differences but was rather busy at the time and never managed to do it.
Maybe next year !
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My goulimyi var./subsp. leucanthus were open in the sun this morning and clearly have much rounder petals than the regular goulimyi in the adjacent pot. I've not seen "Mani White" either, but I guess it has the more pointed petals.
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Jim, has your C. goulimyi come up through that beautiful red carpet or did you arrange it for the photographic occasion? It is gorgeous. 8)
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Gerry, I have the Hythe white form and that is what I am going by. I was going to photograph C. goulimyi var leucanthus, 'Mani White' and the white form together to show the differences but was rather busy at the time and never managed to do it.
Maybe next year !
Andrew - I do hope you manage the comparative photo next year; it would be really interesting to see these forms side-by-side.
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Opened up the green house this morning and this is what I found with the damage.
Please have meal before viewing !
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Have you 'rehoused' the offender, Andrew? ;D
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Few ones this morning.
The first C. hyemalis for this season, a form with pure white petals [no black strip on the external]
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Have you 'rehoused' the offender, Andrew? ;D
It did not need rehousing by the time I had finished with it !!
Oron, wonderful crocus. So gald you joined and post pictures of ones we do not see much off here.
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The first stop on our holiday in Greece was Mount Parnassos. We stayed in Delphi at the Hotel Kouros - a Hotel that I can thoroughly recommend.
Close to the turnoff for Mt Parnassos near Aracova, we found our first Crocus conveniently close to the road.
The following photos show the variability of Crocus cancellatus
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Wow ! :o
Great stuff Art !
They're absolutely wonderful !
Good to hear you had a wonderful trip, not only with plenty of flowers, but also with a good hotel ! 8)
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Wow ! :o
Great stuff Art !
They're absolutely wonderful !
Good to hear you had a wonderful trip, not only with plenty of flowers, but also with a good hotel ! 8)
Only the best for us ;)
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Just as we were leaving Delphi to travel West, we spotted Crocus on a piece of scrubland.
We were surprised to find an Anemone coronaria in flower - this would normally flower in the Spring/Summer
The Crocus turned out to be a mixture of cancellatus and hadriaticus - predominantly cancellatus
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Opened up the green house this morning and this is what I found with the damage.
Please have meal before viewing !
Andrew - was this your C.biflorus ssp. melantherus? :o
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Great photos, Oron and Arthur - please show more!!
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Few ones this morning.
The first C. hyemalis for this season, a form with pure white petals [no black strip on the external]
Oron,
wunderful C.hyemalis.
I'm still impressed how difficult it is to spot the small difference between C.hyemalis white form, C.biflorus ssp. melantherus and C. alleppicus from pure picture viewing... :P ;D
And I concur to Thomas - great stuff! 8)
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Love the pictures from the wild Arthur and Oron 8) Would love to see more and are there any showing plant habitat?
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Andrew - was this your C.biflorus ssp. melantherus? :o
Luckily not Armin, a white form of C. cartwrightianus.
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Thank you all,
Here are some photos of C. Hyemalis in its natural habitat.
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Oron
The anthers are spectacular on hyemalis and put melantherus to shame. Do you get any seed on the plants you grow?
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Thankyou Oron and Artur for such divine pics of gorgeous plants
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Super pictures Oron !!!! :o
So many species I'd never seen before !
Thanks again for showing.
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Such beautiful crocuses and wonderful pictures. Thanks to everyone from those in the far south suffering from Crocus withdrawal symptoms. It's great that we have so many members in many parts of the crocus world so we can see them in their natural habitats.
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Working our way to Nafpaktos we stopped whenever we saw something of interest. Under some electricity pylons we found a superb site for Crocus cancellatus
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Our next stop was to see Crocus robertianus. My pal Dan Robbins is ssen videoing the Crocus. I have used the best of our photos and would like to thank him for some excellent shots.
Can anyone identify what I believe is a Cercis
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Not far from the robertianus site, was an astonishing find - Crocus speciosus :o I now know that this is disjunct population, not mentioned in Brian Mathew's Crocus. but mentioned in a pamphlet he wrote in 1983.
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Under some electricity pylons we found a superb site for Crocus cancellatus
Nice to see how modern technology doesn't necessarily need to be destructive to the wonders of nature... :D probably pure coïncidence though... :-\
Wonderful shots Arthur - your hunt seems to have been a very succesful one !! :D
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Can anyone identify what I believe is a Cercis
It seems the 'Cercis' pic did not appear!
Gerd
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Gerd
Thank you -Cercis now added. I am now adding N. miniatus pictures
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Art - many thanks for sharing the wonderful photos. How fortunate you were to find C. robertianus. Your pics seem to confirm BM's description of the populations as consisting of widely scattered individuals.
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Can anyone identify what I believe is a Cercis
Arthur, I reckon this is Cercis siliquastrum .......which can flower just about anytime and often comes late into leaf.
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Arthur,
Yes it is C. siliquastrum - but here in the north (Germany) it flowers leafless in spring.
Maggi,
Did you find this species flowering in autumn?
Gerd
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Cercis does not flower in Autumn in the UK, Gerd, as far as I know.
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Oron and Arthur,
viewing these marvellous autuum crocus pictures it is mouth-watering for the winter/spring season:P ;D
Thank you.
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We stopped just south of Kalamata to have lunch on the beach. Weather was excellent 28/30C and Dan had a swim :o
We then travelled south to Stoupa and almost immediately spotted Crocus growing by the roadside. These proved to be a mixed population - mainly boryi, but some niveus with long stigmas. Also at the site were Narcissus miniatus - all 3 are N. miniatus, the left hand one is almost circular and very small.
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We drove above Stoupa towards the village of Millia, where we had been assured there were Galanthus reginae-olgae. On the way we saw many more Crocus boryi
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Next to the classic Crocus niveus site at Pirgos Dirou, just south of Areopolis. Over time the road has been widened and the quantity of niveus greatly reduced. Nevertheless there were some white, lavender and bicolours to see
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Just south of Pirgos Dirou is the village of Harouda. we normally visit this to see the sternbergia, but this time we were shocked tosee Crocus goulimyi growing by the roadside as you entered the village. We had not seen them on previous visits.
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Great stuff Arthur, good to see that your pal Dan has good taste in music!
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Next to the classic Crocus goulimyi leucantha spot above Fouthia, near to Monemvassia. The Crocus grow on old terraces.
This year there were few coloured plants, and they were in danger of being swamped by the Cyclamen
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What a wonderful series Arthur. Many thanks.
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Ashley
Just a few more from Mount Didma near Nafplio
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Great piccies Arthur always useful to see them in their habitat and some lovely closeups too
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Arthur - simply fascinating 8) 8) 8)
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On our last day we visited Mount Didima - close to Nafplio
At the bottom we saw Crocus hadriaticus. At the top Crocus melantherus was the predominate specie.
We stopped on the way down and found mixed populations of hadriaticus, melantherus, cancellatus and lavaegatus, together with Colchicum cupanii
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A few more hadriaticus from the bottom of Mt didima.
Crocus melantherus from the top of Mt Didima
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Great Arthur. Thanks for sharing the news and views from Greece. I'm already beginning to hatch a plan to go myself - or do you need a sapper to carry your bags next time? ;)
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Truly wonderful series Arthur !!! :D :D
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Seems like Greece is worth a visit in the next years.
Many thanks for those beautiful photos, Arthur!!
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Lovely photos Arthur and everyone!
Here are Crocus hyemalis and Crocus sativus (saffron crocus):
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Miriam
I think your hyemalis beat anything I showed :) 8) :)
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Arthur and Myriam
very thank you for such splendid pics
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Arthur,
Thank you for the colourful and informative pictures of Greek Crocus.
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Myriam - that C. hyemalis is very beautiful.
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Art - your wonderful pics provide a glorious climax to the autumn crocus season. Congratulations & many thanks.
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Arthur,
That melantherus with black strips outside is stunning!!!
Here are some photos I have taken in the last 3 days in SW Turkey, hopfully there will be more .
It is the first time i see this form of C. cancellathus, it has whitish creamy color, and is widespread from above Kemer 160m up to 1260m [the area of C. anataliensis], they all look exactly the same , no variation at all.
Any one knows this form? is it a ssp. ?
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Oron
My first thought for your white cancellatus was Crocus cancellatus ssp lycius which is white or very pale flowered. Checking in Brian Mathew's book it is listed as being found in W Antalya & E Mugla provinces in SW Turkey. I think this must be it!
Great to see them in the wild, both your home species and those you find on your travels. Thanks!
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Miriam, Arthur and Oron - thanks for all this wonderful pictures - just breathtaking to see all this different species. :)
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Oron just as our correspondent from Greece has finished we have a new one from Turkey just great 8)
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Oron
I have never seen nerimaniae on my travels in Turkey - a beautiful Crocus - and the pallasii pallasii is simply stunning.
Keep the photos coming please
Arthur
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Stunning Crocus Oron !!! :o :o
Isn't this thread a real treat to all of us !!! ;)
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Definitely
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Hi Oron
Crocus nerimaniae is a stunning, never seen by me before. Thank you
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Isn't this thread a real treat to all of us !!!
Well, if I may speak here for myself and for my husband...... YES... YES.... YES!!!!
[attach=1]
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A couple of days ago it was bright enough for my last few goulimyi to open up a bit. These pictures show the difference in petal shape between the two var/ssp as I have them.
Going though my notes more carefully I see that C. speciosus 'Cassiope' was planted in the general area of the rock garden where the deep blue speciosus are appearing now, but I think they got moved around as corms when it was renovated a few years ago, but I'm 99% sure that is what they are. Finally doing quite well as there are at least a dozen flowers at each site and possible more to come. I have to bring them in to get them to open up though, we haven't had serious sun for days. The were bought in the late 1970's from Cruickshank's who, I think, got their bulbs from Tubergens
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Oron
My first thought for your white cancellatus was Crocus cancellatus ssp lycius which is white or very pale flowered. Checking in Brian Mathew's book it is listed as being found in W Antalya & E Mugla provinces in SW Turkey. I think this must be it!
Thank you, it is a pleasure to share this photos and change information with you all.
Tony you are right, it is Cancellatus lycius, I have been reading BM notes last night, and figured it is the one.
Today it is raining here like in Scotland, never theless I decided to drive to Akseki, and on the way I have seen many C. asumaniae, and many Cancellatus pampylicus, unfortunately i couldn't even take out my camera,
well another visit is necessary next year, same time. ;)
Cyclamen cilicium is just every where in that area.
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Today it is raining here like in Scotland, never theless I decided to drive to Akseki, and on the way I have seen many C. asumaniae, and many Cancellatus pampylicus, unfortunately i couldn't even take out my camera,
well another visit is necessary next year, same time.
Cyclamen cilicium is just every where in that area.
Well, Oron, it was not actually raining here in Aberdeen today, though it was very dull ....but if I had made a trip I would not see such treasures.......... even with the rain I would be happy if I could make such a trip as yours on a wet day to glimpse those flowers! 8)
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Well you know Maggi us Mediterraneans, we are very happy to have finally some rain but on the other hand our Vitamin D declines very rapidly, as a result we suffer a light depression :-\ ;D
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Autumn crocus are coming to an end - at least here. However, Spring is on its way. One form of C. malyi will be in flower in a few days time & plants of C. sieberi 'Bowles' White' have their noses above ground.
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Oron, this may be just what you need: http://www.tastethedream.com/products/product/1471.php
or even these.... http://www.drichfoods.com/catalog_i6872973.html?catId=164602 ;)
Gerry, live for the moment, life's too short to wish it away..... Spring will be here soon enough....I hope!
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Dear Tony,
Sorry for the late reply. I was in a holiday to finish my autumn garden works. Now I have been catching up with forum postings and messages.
Relating crocus speciosus from Armenia. It's true it has a yellow throat and creamy anthers. It is collected in wild from Pambak area in our region. Though it is suggested that it could be a hybrid; I don't think so. I have some hybrids of crocus speciosus with pulchellus and they have bright white anthers, very bright yellow throat and the shape of flower is intermediate between both species. In addition, one of my collegues, to whom I send this crocus, said that it looks very similar to English variety of crocus speciosus 'Big Boy'.
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I forgot to ask if somebody grows seedlings from crocus speciosus Albus. I wonder if it produces white seedlings as well.
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Dear Tony,
Sorry for the late reply. I was in a holiday to finish my autumn garden works. Now I have been catching up with forum postings and messages.
Relating crocus speciosus from Armenia. It's true it has a yellow throat and creamy anthers. It is collected in wild from Pambak area in our region. Though it is suggested that it could be a hybrid; I don't think so. I have some hybrids of crocus speciosus with pulchellus and they have bright white anthers, very bright yellow throat and the shape of flower is intermediate between both species. In addition, one of my collegues, to whom I send this crocus, said that it looks very similar to English variety of crocus speciosus 'Big Boy'.
Zhirair - if the crocus 'Big Boy to which you refer is the cultivar introduced in the UK by Roger Poulett under this name then I believe it is a hybrid - C.speciosus x pulchellus. See: http://www.rhs.org.uk/databases/HortDatabase.asp?ID=71515
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Gerry,
I know that crocus spec. 'Big Boy' is a hybrid with cr. pulchellus. Mine just resembles it, but don't look the same.
My sample was collected in wild and I must say that crocus pulchellus is not recorded growing in our country. I even should add that in Pambak area there are some variations of crocus speciosus with very pale flowers, and even near white forms, which also have yellowish throat and creamy anthers.
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November is the busiest time of the year for me in my garden, so busy that I've barely been able to keep up with all of the fascinating posts lately. But this crocus thread is the best and is the one for which I'll make time. What a treat to see so many of these plants in the wild. A big thank you to all who have shared photos from your gardens and travels and to those who have provided guidance and commentary: I'm loving it!
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Well I have a nice batch of 2nd year seedlings from C. speciosus albus, seed that Thomas sent to me. Maybe by next year I can report on their colour- or lack of it. :)
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Lesley,
Very interesting!
Please keep us informed about their colour, when they bloom. I wonder if cr. spec. albus produces white seedlings, when grown from seeds.
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Here are a couple of pix of Crocus cartwrightianus forms from Jim Kee.... I have to say I find it so cute that they are growing next to those cactus....just seems so incongruous to a UK gardener!! Delaware, it seems, is a different world, huh? !!
So, from Jim in Delaware....They are two different forms of C. cartwrightianus, one from Crete..
C. cartwrightianus ex Rodopou, Crete
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
the other from seed of good old CEH 613........
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This is Crocus 'Big Boy'
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Very pretty.
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Maggi,
a nice clump of C. cartwrightianus. 8)
Mark,
excellent - do you have also a picture comparing "Big Boy" with ordninary C.speciosus to see its real size?
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Here are a couple of pix of Crocus cartwrightianus forms from Jim Kee....
Is it just me or do others think about all that saffron when they see a wonderful picture like this? :D Maybe moreso because of being in India at the moment ;D
cheers
fermi
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Yes, Fermi, I think saffron, too, though, as you know, it doesn't take much to make me think food at any time. :-[
Jim has got these crocus growing very nicely, hasn't he?
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I think that is a wonderful picture of the crocus and cactus growing together. Climate change or two micro-climates?
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Hello all,
Thank you again Maggi for posting for me. I will get the hang of this. David, To answer your question,I think a little bit of both. We have certainly had some mild winters here in Delaware, but this bed is on the south facing side of my house with an over hang from the roof that keeps it fairly dry. The Cactus give me something to see in the bed when the bulbs aren't up. I have a few Eriogonums and Viola pedatas in the bed also. I never thought about collecting the Saffron. I might have to do that.
Jim
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Armin it didnt flower this year.
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Here are a couple of pix of Crocus cartwrightianus forms from Jim Kee....
Jim - superb photos - you really show these crocus at their best ;)
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Not many Crocus in flower at the moment, but certainly the rare C. moabiticus takes all the attention.
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Yes, Oron, your C. moabiticus is fine... but I can still be charmed by the C. laevigatus and C. hyemalis :D
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Oron,
the Crocus moabiticus is really very beautiful
here my last flowers for this autumn
Crocus tournefortii 'Albus' and Crocus veneris
in the greenhouse
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Oron all your crocus are classy but C. hyemalis is more then classy!
It is realy geat to see all these nice crocus on my screen.
I have recieved a crocus photo from my friend which taken in NGBB 22.11.08 with a tag, C. reticulatus subsp. hittiticus This is a spring flowering species in my folders! But that picture just taken two days ago! :-\
That confusing me.
I am sure there is somebody who can tell me a hint about for this picture?
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Yes, Ibrahim, reticulatus ssp hittiticus is a spring flowering species. But it flowers up to 1400m according to Mathew's crocus bible
where it probably is covered with snow each season. In Istanbul where no snow cover is found it's possible to get a very
early flowering like illustrated in your photo.
In the last years I always had spring species (imperati, korolkowii, michelsonii, biflorus) that have flowered for me in December
and even in November after a strange weather period.
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Ibrahim
I have been to one of the sites for C. reticulatus ssp. hitticus north of Silifke and as Thomas says it is clearly covered by snow in winter but this will be only for a relatively short period as it is on the south side of the Taurus and spring comes early. Flowering is given as from February onwards in the Flora of Turkey. It has been well over when I have visited in early May and is difficult to find as it grows amongst masses of C. cancellatus.
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Ibrahim,
Thank you very much for the compliments :-[, but I'm sure you can find many classy Crocus
among the 60 taxa you have in Turkey ;)
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Thank you very much Thomas and Tony, This is very nice whenever I need something I find here.
I was surprised to se a spring crocus so early,
Oron you are right I am luky to se so many crocus in my country. But still it is not very easy to see all these specieses because they are in different part of cauntry, different altitute and time. So it is difficuld to be in right time in right place.
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Some more flowers today:
pallasii pallasii from the Island of Chios, around Nea Moni, this is a population with very small flowers and dark neck.
C. vitellinus originally from early flowering populations in south Lebanon.
finally, another moabiticus opened this morning.
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You never cease to amaze us Oron : great stuff :o :o
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:o :o :o - Oron, you are really cruel 8) ;) - wonderful Crocus - I think now I am convinced in croconuting... ::) ;D
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Thanks Luc.
I think now I am convinced in croconuting... ::) ;D
Hans, I would recommend you to give a second thought, this is a terrible illness with evident addictive symptoms.
;) ;D
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I think your recommendation comes to late... :-\ ::) ;)
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Quote from: Hans A. on Today at 11:12:44 AM
I think now I am convinced in croconuting...
Quote from : Oron :
Hans, I would recommend you to give a second thought, this is a terrible illness with evident addictive symptoms.
Quote from Hans:
Oron
I think your recommendation comes to late...
Don't be afraid, I suggest you consult with our CrocoDoctors, Dr. Huber and Dr Goode... they will be able to help calm your fears for the progress of this disease.... yes, it is incurable, but it is not fatal!! 8)
[attach=1]
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Oron
That pallasii from Chios is stunning - such a wonderfully coloured stem.
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It is great when a new enthusiast (or should I say expert) joins our community. Thanks for sharing the pictures and information about some new (to us) species and forms. The C moabiticus has the most delicate colouring, a little gem!
I almost hesitate to show my humble plants but here are a couple from a week or so ago.
Crocus tournefortii - form with slight violet veins on outer petals
Crocus cartwrightianus - a nice large white seedling with some lilac lines in the throat.
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Yes - the croconut fever is spreading fast and worldwide! ;D
Fantastic images ! :o 8) ;D
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Quote from: Hans A. on Today at 11:12:44 AM
I think now I am convinced in croconuting...
Quote from : Oron :
Hans, I would recommend you to give a second thought, this is a terrible illness with evident addictive symptoms.
Quote from Hans:
Oron
I think your recommendation comes to late...
Don't be afraid, I suggest you consult with our CrocoDoctors, Dr. Huber and Dr Goode... they will be able to help calm your fears for the progress of this disease.... yes, it is incurable, but it is not fatal!! 8)
(Attachment Link)
Not fatal in itself Maggi, but definitely terminal in that one has it until one dies. But what a lovely way to go ;D
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I've had to use my eyebrow-plucking tweezers for pinching seeds out of crocus pots recently, pods which opened wide before I caught them. In between times, I also use the same tweezers for picking slugs out of tight places - but I do wash them afterwards. ::)
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And NO, Mr Buttercup. I'm not into slug-washing.
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And NO, Mr Buttercup. I'm not into slug-washing.
Only slug-squashing ... they sound the same after a Guinness or three. :D
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Great collection!
While at Wisley a few weeks back I bought some Crocus pulchellus corms. These have turned out to be wrong. They are speciosus. One of them is very nice. It is white with cream outer petals. Is this normal?
The photos are poor because it's so dull here today
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Mark, the pale one has white anthers and a yellow throat, so either pulchellus or a pulchellus/speciosus hybrid. The close-up of the blue one shows a yellow throat, so again possible pulchellus/speciosus hybrid. Could be that there was some seeding around near a patch of pulchellus that was close to some speciosus.
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I just had a look. All but one heavily veined flower have yellow flushed throats ranging from a hint to quite yellow.
These are Dutch supplied
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I just had a look. All but one heavily veined flower have yellow flushed throats ranging from a hint to quite yellow.
These are Dutch supplied
They're nice looking, strong plants with bold flowers seemingly sturdy weather-proof stems and obviously good for late colour. A good buy, I'd say. Bet they increase well too. Hybrid vigour?
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I hope so especially the white one. There were 10 in the packet, filled by Wisley staff, and not one pulchellus. I didnt take any notice of these until the white one came up. I hope the other bulbs bought are correct.
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Crocus November-2008 in Latvia
We here have very dark and wet November. We had heavy snowstorm for two days and I was blocked in my nursery but all the time weather are cloudy and rainy. I got some additional reticulata iris and tulip bulbs - planting of them outside was real nightmare - allways thinking how to make next step without leaving my rubber boots in pass between beds. Of course picturing of autumn crocuses in greenhouse wasn't easy, too. Every day dark clouds, wetness and crocus blooms didn't open. I used each sunny moment to catch few pictures some of which I'm attaching here. Greatest joy I got from first bloom of Crocus nerimaniae (sorry, 5-petalled only). To get it I closed all windows and doors to rise up temperature a little and in afternoon it opened. Another surprise was Crocus which I got as "pallasii" but it seem to be cartwrightianus but it is closing flowers for night. Originally collected on Chios island (Greece) and named 'Homeri' by great ancient Greek poet Homer. Note black anthers (black colour in crocuses is my "weakness" point).
I was in Greece, too - just for autumn Crocus pictures. A little too late, but I got a lot of nice shots. About those next time.
Janis
Crocus cartwrightianus Homeri -01
Crocus cartwrightianus Homeri -02
Crocus laevigatus Pelopones -09
Crocus melantherus BM-8033 -04
Crocus nerimaniae R2CV-019 -04
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Janis
Beautiful Crocus - especially like the cartwrightianus 'Homeri'. :) 8) :)
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A warm welcome to the forum Janis.
All of the Crocus are lovely.
Just finished reading your book 'Buried Treasures'--what a 'cracker' of a read.
Cheers dave.
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Janis - I can only echo Art, 'Homeri' is stunning.
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Welcome Janis. Great to have you with us. I too love the 'Homeri', and like you I like black in flowers, particularly if the whole flower is black! ;D Of course, I am thinking outside of Crocus here. ;) Now a black Crocus..... that would be rather different.
Again, welcome and great to have you here.
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Welcome from me too Jānis. Quite an 'entrance' with some beautiful pics. 8) I too like 'homeri' but melantherus and nerimaniae are also quite special and will make a note for next year's catalogue. ;D
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Janis - welcome to this forum.
Great stuff you show us, "Homeri" is a stunner :o
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A very warm welcome Janis, to the best plant Forum in the world. You are SOOOO welcome. And a million thanks for your fabulous book "Buried Treasures." I would like it to be the first of several volumes. :D
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One more warm welcome - from another crocus enthusiast.
The C cartwrightianus 'Homeri' is indeed a wonderful variation. A dark throat and black anthers, I think it is the most striking crocus I have seen for a long time ... and I see quite a few! Thanks for sharing these pictures and your news with us.
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I cant compare to Janis' photos but here's my white ?hybrid again ex Wisley plant centre. It has changed colour from being white with a hint of blue to cream all over. I've also added the flower with dark veins.
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Janis, cr. cartwrightianus 'Homeri' is a real ayecatcher with its colourful look. A wonderful set of photos.
As I was in a holiday, I haven't posted picture a a period of time. Today I'd like to post some photos from my collection.
crocus speciosus 'Conqueror' - a huge one.
crocus speciosus 'Cassiope' - I am not sure it is true to name; anyway I received it under this name, and there was even one sample of cr. speciosus*cr. pulchellus with intermediate shape offlower, white anthers and yellow throat.
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crocus speciosus 'Lithuanian Autumn' - nice one
crocus speciosus 'Late Love' - interesting very pale form, but in my opinion standart forms have prittier shape of flowers.
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crocus pulchellus 'Michael Hoog'
crocus kotschyanus
crocus serotinus ssp. salzmanii
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crocus niveus
crocus niveus bicolour
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Wonderful series Zhirair !
I love the bluish C. niveus - very delicate ! 8)
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Thanks Luc!
Indeed, crocus niveus blue form is very nice and among my most favourites. I have several blue forms of this crocus, but this one is most beautiful, especially by its shape of flower and vigour.
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Welcome Janis - hope to see more of your great collection on this board!
Zhirair, I love your blue niveus. I remember you have posted a very dark blue form of niveus, which I also love!
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Thomas,
I remember somewhere I saw a picture of a very dark form of crocus niveus (not bicolour). It was as dark as those of crocus goulimyi standart forms. If I am not mistaken, it was Tony Goods' picture.
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Zhirair,
lovely C.speciosus forms and a fantastic blue C. niveus. :o 8) 8)
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I have moved some posts about Colchicum to the appropriate page :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2082.360