Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Lars S on August 12, 2008, 09:01:53 PM
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Hi all !
I have become very interested in the genus narcissus after reading John Blanchards book, which made me realise how many kinds of nacissus there is around. I have especially been fascinated by the cantabricus and romeuxii kinds. The problem is that I cannot find any information about how these very "southern" narcissi will perform here in Sweden. They obviously need to be grown in a glass house because of the wet winters but how cold hardy are they ? The ordinary types of pseudonarcissus and poeticus and the likes of tète a tète works well in the Stockholm area. I have also had sucess with N bulbocodium and N watieri grown in pots in my unheated glass house
Any advice will be much appreciated.
Lars
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Dear Lars,
The only reference to hoop-petticoat hardiness was in the Encyclopaedia 'Bulbs' by John Bryan.
He states for N.romieuxii 'Hardy in the open to about 25 deg Farenheit but best grown under glass owing to the early flowering period'.
I hope this is a help,
Giles
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P.S. about -3 to -4 C
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We lost most of our collection of hoop petticoat type narcissus last winter when the temperature dropped to max -10C for a few days. They were in the green house without artificial heat.
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Mine are in bloom now and we've had solid rain for weeks but on the rare non-rain night, temps to -6C. It never occurred to me to think of N. romieuxii as other than quite frost hardy.
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We lost most of our collection of hoop petticoat type narcissus last winter when the temperature dropped to max -10C for a few days. They were in the green house without artificial heat.
David - Were they in a plunge bed?
They are precariously hardy here. Bare ground and below -15c temps will usually do them in. They seem to be non-bloomers in this climate. A few years back there was a selection called Golden Bells touted as a reliable bloomer. I haven't seen it in gardens lately, it must not have been hardy either.
johnw
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Apart from beeing not as hardy as Narcissus bulbocodium N. cantabricus and N. romieuxi need a periode of dry and warm summerrest to develope their flowers.
Gerd
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John, I have a limited amount of plunge bed and last winter this was taken up by crocus and iris. The romiouxii narcissus were on a grit tray and so more susceptible to the frost. Maybe I should swap them round this year?
We also have a nice clump of what I believe are species bulbocodium in a raised bed in the garden and these can be relied upon to give a super display every spring, even this year.
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I have found that they are OK plunged, even if the surface of the sand freezes, but in pots on an open bench the roots seem to be killed and the plants die.
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They're fine in small pots to -8 or -9'C, not problem at all, but I can't vouch for any colder than that. Then again, if they can survive that they in the ground or plunge bed they should be able to take somewhat colder than that as the bulb and roots would be protected by the insulation of the ground, which they obviously don't get in small pots. By small here I am talking 4 inch tubes, so the soil and the bulbs would get fairly cold during the nights in winter, but would warm up equally quickly during the day as well. I too had never thought of them as not being fully hardy. Just goes to show how spoilt I am in my climate!! ;)
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Most winters we get a few periods when the night time temperature may drop down to -5 or -6 for a couple of nights and then start to rise again. The pots on top of the bench go hard for a couple of days and then everything returns to normal and the bulbs perform as expected. The trouble this last winter was that we were in Morocco, didn't know about the sever cold and could do nothing about it anyway. The max/min thermometer showed -10 and the neighbours said that it had been like that for several days. This extreme of cold happens to us probably every ten years or so. I remember Helen Greenwood writing a similar article to this for the journal once. It happens but there is no point in getting too upset over it.
We saved some bulbs and have generously been given some others and we will start over again.
I would appreciate some opinions as to wether I should consider swapping the crocus or iris (easy juno and retic) from the plunge to the gravel tray and replacing them with the narcissus.
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This may not line up properly but will give you an idea of what Canadian cold is in celsius. Copenhagen for comparison. Halifax is one of the milder cities in the country! Note the Nov to March rains. Also not helpful for N. bulbocodium types!
Copenhagen Halifax
low high rain days low high rain days
mean mean mm rain mean mean mm rain
Jan -2 2 36 17 Jan -10.7 -1.2 149.2 19.0
Feb -2 2 24 13 Feb -10.2 -1.1 114.4 15.2
Mar -1 5 34 14 Mar -5.8 3.0 134.5 15.7
Apr 2 10 35 13 Apr -0.5 8.4 118.3 14.9
May 7 15 40 13 May 4.5 15.0 109.7 14.0
Jun 11 19 45 11 Jun 9.6 20.3 98.3 12.9
Jul 13 20 57 13 Jul 13.5 23.6 102.2 12.1
Aug 13 20 55 13 Aug 13.5 23.3 92.7 10.4
Sep 10 17 53 14 Sep 9.3 18.8 103.6 10.9
Oct 7 12 47 14 Oct 3.8 12.7 128.7 12.4
Nov 3 7 52 17 Nov -0.7 6.9 146.0 15.4
Dec -1 4 47 16 Dec -7.1 1.4 154.8 18.3
Now you know why we think New Zealand missed winter this year.
johnw
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Thank´s everybody for your input. I guess that Stockholm will somewhere between Copenhagen and Halifax when it comes to winter temperatures. I will push my cantabricus and romieuxii pots well into a sand plunge in my green house and pray for another mild winter.
BTW are there no other scandinavians that grow these narcissi ?
Lars
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BTW are there no other scandinavians that grow these narcissi ?
Lars
Lars, I think that there are a lot of people who sadly do NOT grow these plants because there are few shows to tempt them when the are in flower.... there is nothing like good plants on a show bench at the same time as plants for sale, to encourage a plant in popularity! But, even so, surely there are Scandanavians who can share their experiance with you ???????
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John, we didn't miss winter this year. We're having it now in what is usually early spring. More snow forecast for later today. >:(
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I have never been able to overwinter any of the hoops outside near Oerebro
The other small ones may survive a year or two but not for long.
I think the climatic difference between the Iberian peninsula and Sweden is too great.
I suggest pot culture but it is difficult because of the low levels of light here.
Göte.
PS
I, or rather my wife, found an N. assoanus in the gravel of a path.
I have no idea how it got there it must have seeded.
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OK Göte, thank´s
With my limited experience so far it seems as though the rupicolas and bulbocodiums are hardy enough if grown in a glass house. I haven´t tried them outside yet. I remember Henrik Zetterlund of the Göteborg botanical garden saying once that he thought that N roumiexii was pretty hardy. The problem with daylight being scarce in autumn and winter still remains I suppose. Maybe its possible to find some selections that bloom a bit later in the year ... I am also going to try N triandrus "Angels tears" and N cyclamineus in pots this winter.
Funny with your N assoanus Göte. Sometimes it seems that seeds that "escape" works best.
Yes Maggi, I also think it is a pity that these narcissi are not grown more. In Sweden you won´t anything
a apart from the standard trumpet cultivars in the garden centers.
Lars
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I think that the 'hoops' are generally hardy enough to grow outside here but so far I have not tried this because I can't provide a long dry spell for them :(.