Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Primula => Topic started by: arisaema on June 30, 2008, 09:26:36 PM

Title: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: arisaema on June 30, 2008, 09:26:36 PM
Have anyone flowered H-21, and what is it? It's more or less evergreen here, leaves are thick and leathery with hairs along the veins and margins, very unlike any Omphalogramma I've ever seen...
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Maggi Young on June 30, 2008, 10:20:46 PM
Strange thing.... looks more like some sort of Berneuxia to me!! ::) ???
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: arisaema on June 30, 2008, 10:43:09 PM
Yes, it does look similar to Berneuxia, similar leaf-texture but it lacks the red petioles. She's been selling this plant as Omphalogramma for years, took me three attempts to get one growing
Title: not omphalogramma
Post by: johnw on July 03, 2008, 02:19:26 AM
I'm in St John's, Newfoundland tonight. Recently someone posted a pic of a plant received from Chenyi that was labelled  Omphalogramma. The owner thought it might be a Berneuxia. I sent a copy of the pic to Jens Nielsen, propagator extraordinaire, as it was unkown to me and definitely not like any Berneuxia I've seen.  Here's his response - "That is Chrysosplenium macrophylla, it's quite nice and different from other Chrysosplenium, but it is no Omphalogramma." Jens seems to have an encyclopaedic mind for plants.

Hopefully Maggi the Marvel will be able to move this to the proper Topic.

johnw
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 03, 2008, 07:38:07 AM
There's a reply on here http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1970.0 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1970.0) about this plant; see reply 5.cheers
fermi

 Thanks, Fermi, I have moved that reply to this page, see above. Maggi
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Maggi Young on July 03, 2008, 10:51:36 AM
I am happy to hear from Jens, via John, about this plant..... it is somewhat embarrassing as we actually have Chrysosplenium macrophylla ( which is Saxifragaceae, rather than Primulaceae, of course)  and I didn't recognise it!  :-[ :-[ Did not come from Chen Yi, though. :-\
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: arisaema on July 03, 2008, 11:26:08 AM
Thanks John (and Jens, Fermi and Maggi), that certainly looks very close! Will compare it to the description later, if it is then I'm just as embarassed as it's been on my wants-list for years...  ;D
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Hjalmar on July 03, 2008, 01:28:35 PM
I haven't posted any photos before, so let's see if this works.
This should be Chrysosplenium macrophyllum.
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Hjalmar on July 03, 2008, 01:31:33 PM
Sorry about the gigantic size of the image. As I said, my first attempt.
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Maggi Young on July 03, 2008, 01:42:02 PM
Don't worry, Hjalmar, I will edit it for you!
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: arisaema on July 04, 2008, 09:33:01 AM
Thanks for the picture, Hjalmar! Is your plant glabrous on stems and undersides of leaves as well?
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Hjalmar on July 05, 2008, 06:40:43 AM
It is completely glabrous. I'll make some pictures to show the leaves more clearly and post later today.
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Hjalmar on July 05, 2008, 02:44:51 PM
Sorry, not completely glabrous. I am not good at botanical terms, especially in English, but there are small hairs at the sides of the leaf base. I think you can see them in the last picture.

By the way, thanks Maggie for illustrating the meaning of the word "dogsbody". Hope I can handle it better this time.
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: arisaema on July 05, 2008, 07:50:27 PM
Thanks, Hjalmar, my plant has those same hairs along the edges (and by the looks of it almost identical frost damage). What (Swedish) zone are you in?
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Hjalmar on July 06, 2008, 05:34:53 AM
Zone 3-4. Actually I bought the plant this spring (from Gothenburg botanical gardens), so it hasn't lived here a whole winter yet.
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Tony Willis on July 11, 2008, 10:28:14 AM
I have H50 and it is an omphalaogramma which I have flowered,not very exciting to see.
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: gote on July 25, 2008, 12:42:15 PM
I got a plant which I believe is Chrysosplenium macrophyllum as an unnamed gift some three years ago.
It differs from the ones above by being hairy so it could be another sp.
The flower stalks elongate later but the flowers open low.
I love it because it flowers so early.
the "crystalline" flowers are also unusual and beautiful.
The problem with it is that it has runners half a metre long. I still have to find the proper place for it.
I have never had any real frost damage. I think that this is natural aging.
I am in Mid-Sweden Swedish zone 3-4 or thereabouts.
The last two winters have of course been unusually mild.
Göte
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Maggi Young on July 25, 2008, 01:06:48 PM
Yes, Göte, I can clearly see the hairs on the leaves in your second photo. How pretty the pink and white  is, really crystalline, as you say...... waiting for mine to flower next year, I hope!
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Sinchets on February 23, 2009, 11:51:01 AM
Lol- does anyone else agree that buying things from ChenYi is the botanical version of the lucky dip bags you used to get at the sweetshop as a child? I've had what was supposed to be an orange Scilla- well i was hoping a bit there- which turned out to be a Rumex  ;)
i wonder if they employ 'prenursery botanists' to go out and do the collecting!
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: gote on February 23, 2009, 01:46:36 PM
It is definitely lucky dip. I also received a Rumex as Scilla.  >:(
On the other hand I received Lilium lijiangense instead of Lilium rosthornii which I received instead of L henryii.  :) :)
Göte
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Sinchets on February 23, 2009, 02:14:54 PM
It is definitely lucky dip. I also received a Rumex as Scilla.  >:(
On the other hand I received Lilium lijiangense instead of Lilium rosthornii which I received instead of L henryii.  :) :)
Göte
We ordered Lilium bakerianum in 3 different varities, which turned out to be the 9foot monsters we had already bought as L.bakerianum from rareplants, and i think L.cernuum from another nursery. The monster was attractive, but when you get the same plant 3 times and it's not what you wanted you start to despair. We vowed never again. We have however just noticed a new online shop offering a very similar list, but without species names -  guess you  have to  accept it's a lottery with that one.
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: gote on February 23, 2009, 04:13:57 PM
It would be interesting if you could post a picture of the monster. Does it have green bulbils?
Would you sell one of them to me in the summer?
I think that Rare Plants buys from CY and re-sells and has done so for many years.
Göte.
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Sinchets on February 23, 2009, 04:38:48 PM
It would be interesting if you could post a picture of the monster. Does it have green bulbils?
Would you sell one of them to me in the summer?
I think that Rare Plants buys from CY and re-sells and has done so for many years.
Göte.

[/quote]
Sadly i no longer have pics- i lost many pics in a diskdrive disaster-  new moto backup, backup, backup!- I am guessing it is Lilium sargentiae and it has copious green bulbils. It grows shorter here- maybe 6foot max compared to 9foot in the UK. I am more than happy to send, sell or swap bulbils.
Simon
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Hjalmar on February 24, 2009, 06:53:19 AM
The reawakening of this thread reminds me: My Chrysosplenium macrophyllum got more hairy later in the summer, so probably it is the same plant as Göte's.
I am looking forward to spring, we have about 10 cm of snow here but it is melting.
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: gote on February 24, 2009, 08:22:00 AM
It seems that everyone has got Lilium sargentiae including myself. I assume that it has been very easy to propagate with all those bulbils.
I grew one from seed many years ago that strain had next to no bulbils. Unfortunately it was not sufficiently frost hardy.
We will see what happens now with the coldest winter for half a decade.
Göte
 
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Sinchets on February 24, 2009, 08:44:14 AM
It seems that everyone has got Lilium sargentiae including myself. I assume that it has been very easy to propagate with all those bulbils.
I grew one from seed many years ago that strain had next to no bulbils. Unfortunately it was not sufficiently frost hardy.
We will see what happens now with the coldest winter for half a decade.
Göte
 
Yes i guess this is the fallback Lily- for when stocks run out of the good stuff- if there ever really is good stuff!
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: gote on February 24, 2009, 12:40:19 PM
It depends upon what you mean by good stuff.
If you do not think that Lilium lijiangense, amoenum, papilliferum, lankongense ochraceum, Cardiocrinum giganteum, Erythronium japonicum,  which I all have got from CY, are good stuff
That is of course your evaluation.
Göte
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Sinchets on February 24, 2009, 01:45:16 PM
Maybe you were lucky and your order was at the top of the pile- so you received more of the things you had ordered- as far as my evaluation selling Rumex as Scilla is unforgiveable!
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: gote on February 24, 2009, 06:01:50 PM
I do not think that these mistakes are intentional. Many things I have ordered have been indicated as 'sold out'. It is not so that common things are given fancy names deliberately.
 
I ordered the rather common L henryii and received the, at that time practically unknown, L. rosthornii The books stated that it had not been seen alive for a hundred years. (By westerners. It is not uncommon in parts of China). When I ordered a second L rosthornii I got L lijiangense, described as late as 1986. Papilliferum I got as "Sp red". Ochraceum as "nepalense var." (more or less right depending upon wheter you are a splitter or lumper) I got Epimedium brachyrrhizum as "Epimedium sp" and pauciflorum under another number. I have further got an Epimedium that is not in the Stearn book. Allium ovalifolium I got under the correct name.
 
If a mistake means that I get plants that have not been seen in the west for a century (and never grown)  I forgive the Rumex-Scilla. If theChinese handle scientific names the way Japanese do it could be a translation error since that mistake has been repeated.

Göte



Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Sinchets on February 24, 2009, 08:11:05 PM
For me though this means the plants aren't, and indeed can't be, nursery cultivated or the mistakes would be clearly visible. I guess you have had a good experience, mine wasn't.
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Maggi Young on February 24, 2009, 11:19:18 PM
Quote
It seems that everyone has got Lilium sargentiae including myself.
Not me.. :(
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Sinchets on February 25, 2009, 08:08:04 AM
Hi Maggi- if it get some, do you want bulbils this summer?
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: gote on February 25, 2009, 09:15:59 AM
Maggie,
If mine survies - which is doubtful after this winter - you can have a bag from me too.
It is, however, just as Simon says, a very tall trumper lily.
Göte.

PS
the Arisaema list has a more or less standing thread about CY-misnamings - which of course perpetuate as ripples on water.
Perhaps we should have one too?
 
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Maggi Young on February 25, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Gentlemen, all Lily contributions gratefully received... I know others not growing this big lily too, so you could make several folks happy!  I believe that there is always room in my garden for a lily !
Title: Re: Chen Yi's evergreen "Omphalogramma H-21" - What is it?
Post by: Sinchets on February 25, 2009, 03:47:51 PM
It's a nice enough lily, and in a good year is big enough to need the support of a bush to grow through. I'll see what i can do with respect to bulbils this summer - and if anyone wants to do swaps for L.bakerianum i'll be very happy  ;)
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