Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Bart on May 01, 2021, 08:49:36 PM
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In 2019 I posted a query about a stoloniferous lily, grown from srgc seedex seed. Don't know how to insert old quotes, but it is lilium 2019 Reply#7.
This is what it looks like in flower in a pot, in a cold greenhouse:
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Looks a bit like a Frittilaria camschatsensis on steroids to me, or a Nomocharis??
Anyone an idea what this might be?
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Lilium souliei (?) - well done getting it flowering.
https://www.rareplants.co.uk/product/lilium-souliei/
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Hi Gail,
Thanks for your praise but there is no wisdom involved.
The link you posted does lead to ' website temporarily closed' so I googled L. souliei, but I do think its flowers are more pronounced 'bell' shaped. interestingly it throws up a picture from the bulb log 21, 18-05-2004 (!) where both L souliei and F camschatsensis are shown. My bet is still on the Frit, given these pics as comarison. BUT I have tried to grow F. camschatsensis before and invariably killed it off within 2 seasons and gave up. Also, why would I get Frit seed as Lilium via the seedex....
Is Frit Camschatsensis stoloniferous (I also don't know a thing about frits...)
And Maggi, the pics are on their sides again, soo sorry...
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Fritillaria camschatcensis leaves are in whorls. Lilium souliei leaves are scattered.
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Hi Bart, I think you are right that this is a vigorous form of Fritillaria camschatcense, because of the whorled leaves identified by Rick.
Tristan
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Lilium macklinae, raised from seed. It only gives me one bloom each year.
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Here's my Lilium macklinae.
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...and this is Nomocharis aperta.
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Can't remember which Nomocharis this is I'm afraid!
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That last one looks like Nomocharis x finleyorum.
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Lilium canadense, raised from seed.
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Cardiocrinum giganteum. These lilies have seeded themselves throughout my garden. These are all self-sown.
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What a wonderful display!
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"Cardiocrinum giganteum. These lilies have seeded themselves throughout my garden. These are all self-sown."
As someone who lives on chalky soil, with low rainfall; I never thought I would see that in print ;-)
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"Cardiocrinum giganteum. These lilies have seeded themselves throughout my garden. These are all self-sown."
As someone who lives on chalky soil, with low rainfall; I never thought I would see that in print ;-)
Me neither Brian! Don't they have slugs in the US?
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We do have slugs in my part of the US.
They make a feast of the spring Colchicum leaves.
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Yes, the Pacific Northwest excels in slugs, from tiny to monstrous -- think Limax maximus (leopard slug), Arion ater (black slug), or Ariolimax columbianus (banana slug). We also have recently become infested with red lily beetle. Always a challenge.
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Glorious!
I would think it is amazing that they are all blooming the same year, even if they had seeded themselves the same year. It's clearly not a size parameter that determines bloom, as they are differing in height and bloom count. Is this common, Claire, if you get some years not so much bloom and some years a bloom "explosion"?
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I last flowered Cardiocrinum half a lifetime ago, in a pot; but don't I recall offsets are never as good as the "master" bulb and seed grown is the only "good" way to grow them? How long from seed to flowering?
My one and only visit to the west coast was in 2006 when I did a quick 1 week tour down a far as Eugene, after 2 weeks in BC, and that was in May; a bit too early.
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Cardiocrinum height in my garden seems to be determined by fertility of the soil, coolness (shade), and water. In the sunnier parts of the garden, some only reach 5 feet or so, while in the shade, they can top 14 feet. As for how long it takes from seed to flower, I've always quoted 7 years. But truthfully, since seedlings are everywhere (including pots of choice plants that they quickly overgrow), I don't pay enough attention to any one plant to know.
Yesterday our high temperature was 101F (38C). The flowers held out until the late afternoon sun hit them. Some perked up this morning but that glorious display is over. Today's forecast is 104F (40C), and tomorrow's is 110F (43C). Everything in the garden should be nice and crispy. :'(
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The lilies here are nice at the moment.
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A nice white form of Lilium martagon. Some white martagons can be rather weak but this one seems quite vigorous.
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...and a yellowish martagon - not sure if this is a named form or not. I find martagons a bit capricious, some years it makes a nice show and other times it seems to take a year off.
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Lilium nepalense. This is an odd thing that manages to be brash, elegant and understated all at the same time! It's also a real pig to get a photo of that captures it adequately. In the evening the flowers are heavily perfumed with rather an overbearing scent, and the petals literally drip with nectar (see last photo). I wonder what on earth pollinates it - bats maybe? Or some kind of giant Himalayan moth?
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Pollinated by bees.
https://pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Lilium+nepalense
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Pollinated by bees.
https://pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Lilium+nepalense
I find that hard to believe Arnold. It certainly isn't attractive to the bees here, and the night scent and size and colour of the flower are all wrong for a bee pollinated plant. More seriously, it reminds me a bit of Nicotiana which are pollinated by long-tongued hawkmoths.
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Update: Quick search on Google scholar suggests that L. brownii, L. primulinum, L. sargentiae and L. auratum are pollinated by hawkmoths. Presumably L. nepalense, which has a similar flower size and shape, is the same.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jse.12419 (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jse.12419)
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10144-008-0097-1 (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10144-008-0097-1)
https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ajb2.1275 (https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ajb2.1275)
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Lilium hansonii has been scenting the air at the bottom of the garden for a few weeks.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jDEImbtf2quTInT4fVIC7FiEf1BYTpPrt3fohrIEvsmAlHV2INGEnge5UAYdL71hxLS5rIOPZduTtQD4SrC5D8-peO7sdcd4_3udXR9CNALWsB0Zv-C-vb06S1xCkwTr0IEAddsyFVw=w1920-h1080)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PywqiKDy3gyHK5_6lCgW7_i4MqlLL_PUbVk__7r3X7GPeB5UNB_MextlsgSE67xROHmJjmv3ntndmYPiPiSseEs2ikPKqAzpmHRD9RNtsLxH1SIACzwsuFkMSGrWaqZq_fK7jrK4OA=w1920-h1080)
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I suggest it is very presumptuous to say that any type of Lilium is only ever pollinated by a single pollinator. Every year many L. nepalense, L. auratum, and many, many more Oriental Hybrids of similar shape bloom and set seed in my garden. Whilst we do have Hawk Moths I also commonly observe Bumble Bees and several different birds visiting these flowers. There are many opportunists out there.
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I suggest it is very presumptuous to say that any type of Lilium is only ever pollinated by a single pollinator.
I don't think anybody said that Neil. But certain flowers have evolved to attract certain pollinators.
Bees may well be visiting your lilies. But most of them will fly to the nectary, have a drink, and fly away again without touching either anther or stigma, because the flowers are much too big to make bee pollination likely (one of the papers I linked to says that the flowers are often visited by small beetles, but that these rarely pollinate the flowers). The large size of the lily flowers makes bee pollination very difficult.
Interested that birds are visiting the flowers - what sort are these? Are you in the UK?
Best wishes, Tristan
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The bees on my lilies are plentiful, but gather pollen and sometimes nectar (depends on the species of insect). It's only the rare accidental bumping into a stigma that might pollinate. I've seen it happen from time to time, but upon examinations have never seen any pollen deposited.
Butterflies and moths, and (probably) hummingbirds are the major pollinators here.
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What a great photo Rick (and a beautiful swallowtail - wish we had these here). Not much doubt about that one!
Best wishes, Tristan
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In our area Lillies have started blooming.
Still very hot with record breaking temperature s and no rain.
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...and a yellowish martagon - not sure if this is a named form or not. I find martagons a bit capricious, some years it makes a nice show and other times it seems to take a year off.
Martagon lilies have been flowering also here for a week. It is so hot (+28C) that they flower fast.
The yellowish one Tristan has is interesting. I have a bit similar, an old nameless variety from Finland. It starts as white but soon changes to cream and pale yellow. This is in the first picture.
In the second picture is another yellowish one, a nameless also. I got it last summer so it is still small.
My white ones are not doing so well, but still flower.
'Congo Capers' is a very nice dark red martagon lily.
'Jaunie Varti' is also my favourites, I bought it from Latvia some years ago.
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Two observations:
The lily beetle is here in Northern New Jersey
They are not very good swimmers.
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good work, Arnold!
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Such a nuisance. I decapitate them.
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You must always have a watchful eye for these pests.
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You know, I think we probably underappreciate Lilium regale because it's so easy to get hold of. Looks fabulous in that woodland edge setting with the ferns and conifers Rudi.
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Nice lilies. The regale has such a wonderful scent.
Since I have several "bee hotels" in the garden, I found out that small wasps of the genus Ancistrocerus predate on the larvea of the lily beetle. Not much other animals like the filthy creatures, but they do. They keep the pest down, although it is till needed to manually inspect the lilies. But free help is welcome.
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This an ongoing research project in New Hampshire. https://web.uri.edu/biocontrol/lily-leaf-beetle/
The following information is reprinted from: Lily Leaf Beetle Biological Control Update, March 31, 2006. Northeastern IPM News, Dept. of Plant Sciences, University of Rhode Island
The University of Rhode Island Biological Control Laboratory, in collaboration with CABI-Bioscience and colleagues in France, identified a complex of four larval parasitoids, which causes a high level of parasitism throughout Europe. On the basis of parasitoid surveys in Europe and laboratory experiments conducted in the USA and Europe, it was determined that T. setifer, L. errabundus, and D. jucunda were safe and likely candidates to control L. lilii.
Tetrastichus setifer is likely the best candidate for controlling the LLB in the Northeast. It is widespread throughout Europe and it has been relatively easy to establish in RI, MA, NH, and ME. Lily leaf beetle populations have declined substantially at the two oldest release sites. They last released T. setifer in Wellesley, MA in 2001 where it has heavily parasitized LLB larvae ever since (100% parasitism at peak larval density in 2005). We found similar results in Cumberland, RI where we last released T. setifer in 2002, with 100% parasitism at peak larval density in 2005. From the parasitoids released in surrounding states, they found T. setifer establised in Bridgton, ME in 2004. Tetrastichus setifer has also spread several miles from release sites.
Lemophagus errabundus was found in a lily garden 3/4 mile from their Plainville, MA release site in 2005, indicating that it is not only established from releases in 2003 and 2004, but it has spread a considerable distance. They also released this species in the Kingston, RI plot where they found good parasitism in the weeks following release. Diaparsis jucunda has proven to be more difficult to establish against the LLB. It is found at higher elevations in Europe, and appears well-suited for northern New England, but they have not yet recovered overwintered parasitoids at any of their 2004 and 2005 release sites in RI, MA, NH, or ME. In 2005 they also released LLB larvae parasitized by D. jucunda into their lily plots to determine if this is a better way to establish this species.
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Tristan, Rob and Arnold, many thanks for your friendly and interesting comments.
It is the first time, that I read about parasitic wasps who can reduce the amount
of lily beetles. The bee hotels in our gardens are always good visited.by wild bees,
wasps are rather rare guests. Another good effects is the good amount
of seeds which is set by the good job, that these insects do.
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.It is the first time, that I read about parasitic wasps who can reduce the amount
of lily beetles.
This was also a first time for me. Thank you for bringing this up here.
I don't think those wasps mentioned in the research project live in Finland, but maybe we have some others which would also be parasitic in lily beetles.
This summer there has been a lot of lily beetles, and I try to kill all I see, but some manage to escape.
Martagon lilies have finished flowering but Lilium canadense flowers now, both yellow and red form. Also Lilium pardalinum flowers right now.
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Beautiful Leena! Here is my Lilium canadense, from seed. This is something of a personal triumph as I have never flowered it before - usually I get it to flowering size, plant it out and then the slugs eat it in spring. This one I planted in a wet spot in the garden which seems to suit it.
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Now L. grayi, a close relative. Unfortunately something had a nibble at the bud.
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Lilium hansonii. This flowers well for me but the foliage is always a rather sickly yellowish green, does anyone have any advice?
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Hmm, my red L.canadense is also red inside (I think). Should it be orange? Whatever it is, it is a very nice plant, but unfortunately I haven't gotten seeds from it these three years it has flowered. It was bought as a seedling, and I don't know it's origin better.
Is L.grayi a smaller plant than L.canadense?
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Both of your L. canadense are stunning Leena!
I don't know enough about these lilies to say definitively whether this is canadense or a hybrid with something else. I know canadense comes in yellow, orange and red forms and it has a large range, so it's probable that the leaves and flowers are variable. Maybe Arnold or Gabriela will know?
L. grayi should be smaller yes, with broader leaves and more bell-shaped flowers. I just checked and mine have a yellow interior, similar to the candense. Both species were grown from the SRGC seedex seed.
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Lovely canadense Leena.
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Thank you Tristan and Ashley.
I checked and my red L.canadense is red also inside the flower.
Yesterday opened L.distichum, sown several years ago. It has typical leaf whorl, and in fact earlier in spring I didn't remember what I had planted there and wondered about the leaves which look like Paris leaves at that time, before the flower stem started to grow. It isn't a very showy plant but a bright orange spot in a lot of green is nice:).
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One more picture of my L.canadense before they go over. They are magnificent!
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Your Liliums look fantastic this summer Leena!
I don't know how it happens but althouth there is plenty of L. michigananese, I don't have any colony of L. canadense nearby (mind you that 'nearby' in Canada has a different meaning than in Europe).
But as far as I know, the inside can be reddish-orange, with more inclination towards a shade or other.
I bought a L. canadense-red form one year, which vanished fast from the garden and I am not successful at growing Liliums from seeds; it is something I surely must improve upon.
I planted all young seedlings in the garden like you advised Leena and they are still alive; certainly doing better than in pots.
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Those L. canadense certainly are magnifient! The most graceful lily of all, in my opinion. I think it is pretty common for the face of the flower to be a lighter shade than the reverse.
Nice Lilium distichum! Not many people grow it, and yes, that's exactly what it does: come up with it whorl of leaves, and then sit there for a while before it starts to send up a flowering stem. I think they look like little palm trees.
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Thanks Gabriela and Rick:).
There is something about this year that many lilies like, it is a good year for them.
This was the first flowering for my L.distichum and I hope next year there will be more flowers like in Rick's lily. They do look like little palm trees at first:).
I planted the whole seed pot in the same place and there are three bulbs with the biggest one flowering. I should dig them up after flowering and plant more widely apart so that the smaller ones also have more room. I hope disturbing doesn't set them back very much, I'm a little afraid of digging them but they can't grow big so close to each other.
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Lilium ‘Tiger Babies’ - this was raised in the United States by Judith Freeman from Lilium lancifolium, the tiger lily, and Lilium regale. Large peachy coloured flowers, well spotted with deep wine flecks; they have a light fragrance.
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L.canadense is finishing flowering now but here is one more picture of the red form and it has red inside also.
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A few more lilies are out.
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I showed the shoots of this L. pardalinum hybrid emerging in spring: here it is in flower.
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Another from the same seed batch; this one is not as tall but has a more elegant flower shape.
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This dwarfer one has an attractive gold back to the flowers.
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A similar one, but not as nice for me.
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A couple of North lankongense hybrids:
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'Karen North'
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'Eros'
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My martagon lilies went over very quickly this year with it being so hot and dry when they came into flower. I did manage to get a few pics. The job now is to dead head before they ripen seed. I have too many already and they are not easy to get rid of.
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Lilium martagon cattaniae
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Those are some splendid martagons Roma, and well grown too.
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I don't do anything, Tristan. I started of with a few seed grown bulbs of album and cattaniae both of which were true to the parents. Neither have spots but the seedlings turned up all shades of pink with varying degrees of spottiness as well as pure white and dark and spotless like cattaniae.
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Beautiful lilies, Roma, and nice genetic diversity.
I have too many already and they are not easy to get rid of.
If you don't use any pesticides, martagon section lily bulbs are very good tasting. They are better than asiatics, in my opinion, especially when eaten raw. ;D
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Lilium rosthornii, in habit like a small Lilium henryi, but the flowering
time is definetely later.
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Nicely grown, Rudi. The dimorphic structure of the leaves that is always characteristic of the species is evident in your pic, too. See how the leaf size abruptly changes from short to long, midway down the stem.
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Rick, thank you for this interesting information, I didn't know about
this fact before and am happy to have the true species.
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Not a species but still attracting visitors, Lilium ‘Yellow Bruse’
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Very interesting Lilium Shop.
www.lilium-tc.com