Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: Tristan_He on May 12, 2020, 08:44:57 PM

Title: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Tristan_He on May 12, 2020, 08:44:57 PM
Haven't seen a thread yet this year...

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Edraianthus graminifolius

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Edraianthus montenegrinus


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Edraianthus niveus
. I think putting it next to tufa was a mistake, it makes the flowers look sort of dirty. Have to raise more from seed....

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Campanula cf. bellidifolia. (got this from Vlastimil Pilous, does anyone out there know what it might be? Very pretty but slugs are very fond of it!
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Leucogenes on May 12, 2020, 09:39:22 PM
Hello Tristan

Great pictures.  A little remark about Edraianthus niveus.  I don't think it's your tufa that makes the flowers look dirty to you.  Because that's exactly what it looks like to me...  but without the tufa.  Maybe this species has a little variation in color?

Here's a quick photo from last year...because my plant needs some warm days to bloom.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Tristan_He on May 12, 2020, 10:20:41 PM
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Hi there Leucogenes - yes I see what you mean. Previously I had grown this plant against the local slate, which is a dark grey - as you can see it looks much better than with the tufa (well I think it does).

It's interesting that your plant doesn't flower too reliably as I have had no problems in that regard, even though we don't often get any real heat in summer. We often get a dry spell around April-June though, and I grow it in very poor sandy soil.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Maggi Young on May 13, 2020, 11:42:41 AM
I think you guys are  beating  yourselves  up  unnecessarily!  I've  never  seen E. niveus that is  pure  white - it always  looks  a  bit  grubby, because  it  is  really  a  green/cream colour  rather  than pure  white.   I suspect photos  showin "snowwhite" niveus to be  altered! ( Suspicious me?? Sure!)
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Yann on May 13, 2020, 03:50:05 PM
Tristan that's great to grow this little jewels, they don't like my soil.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Leucogenes on May 13, 2020, 04:47:14 PM
I think you guys are  beating  yourselves  up  unnecessarily!  I've  never  seen E. niveus that is  pure  white - it always  looks  a  bit  grubby, because  it  is  really  a  green/cream colour  rather  than pure  white.   I suspect photos  showin "snowwhite" niveus to be  altered! ( Suspicious me?? Sure!)

Maggi...  You confirm my earlier suspicions... thanks for that.  I'm definitely not beating myself up over this... on the contrary... I like this dirty color.  ;D

Edraianthus tarae is very pure.  Both are beautiful and I am grateful that they grow and bloom very well with me.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Tristan_He on May 29, 2020, 08:23:47 AM
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Phyteuma nigrum is very abundant on the rockery at the moment - pretty but it just tends to self seed a little more than I would like. I also have P. album and it looks as if there has been hybridisation as some of the plants are a bit paler. The bees absolutely love these at this time of year. It's hard to believe this really is in the same family as Campanula, the appearance is very different!
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Tristan_He on May 29, 2020, 08:28:47 AM
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Edraianthus graminifolius. This one is flowering a good three weeks later than the one I posted up thread. I should say that the one above had a labelling mishap at one stage so it's possible it's something else... then again with the taxonomy of these being so muddled I suppose it's also possible this one is something else!  ???

Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Tristan_He on May 29, 2020, 08:39:02 AM
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A bellflower from Slovenia, probably C. carnica, where it was growing in limestone cliffs. Any opinions welcome! It's like a harebell (or bluebell if you are north of the border) but flowering much earlier and with slightly larger, more open flowers. It seems to have a naturally rather trailing habit.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Tristan_He on July 05, 2020, 11:45:29 AM
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Jasione montana
(sheep's bit scabious). When it is happy this is a lovely thing - thanks to Ian McD for sending me seed of this. The bees and butterflies love it too - worth a place in anybody's garden.

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Campanula barbata. Some plants I planted were short-lived, but most (including this one) seem soundly perennial. It likes well-drained rather dry soil and seeds around modestly. I can never totally make up my mind whether the colours on this one are 'refined' or 'wishy-washy' - I think it depends on the light! It definitely shows up better against a dark background.

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Campanula label lost from Aberconwy Nursery (I have emailed Tim to see if he knows the name). This beautiful little thing is really dwarf. I am afraid I have sorely mistreated it, but after fighting its way through a patch of Androsace 'Susan Joan', this year it has finally got big enough to make an impact (the drought probably helped too). I'm pretty sure it's a hybrid. Does anyone recognise it?

Update: this is C. 'Timsbury Chimes' - a selection from C. rotundifolia subsp. arctica 'Mt Jotunheim' (it says here). Well worth seeking out.

Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Tristan_He on July 05, 2020, 11:48:49 AM
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Campanula spicata. This pretty biennial with unusual upward facing flowers is too rarely seen in gardens in my opinion. This is from seed collected the first time we visited Slovenia some years ago and the plants seed around gently including on top of our wall in very harsh conditions.

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Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Tristan_He on July 05, 2020, 11:52:29 AM
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Finally a flower of Cyananthus farreri, which I obtained this spring from Aberconwy just before lockdown. So far the individual flowers are more impressive than the overall effect, but hopefully the plant will make a more impressive show as it grows.

Also my C. lobatus has been in flower for a couple of weeks already! Has anybody else noticed this? Usually this plant doesn't flower until the end of July - August.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Hoy on July 05, 2020, 02:55:20 PM
Tristan, you certainly grow many nice bellflowers!

Jasione montana is native here. It is very drought tolerant. Each plant is short lived but it pops up here and there in dry sites. (Here with raspberry leaves.)


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Regarding Campanula barbata, it is my experience also that some specimens are shortlived while others are more perennial. But no plants here is that light blue!


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Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Tristan_He on July 05, 2020, 06:49:54 PM
Thank you Trond! I don't exactly collect them, but it is a group that I am very fond of and they seem to do well here, by and large. Exactly why is a mystery to me because round here we have wet winters, cool summers, acid soil and slugs the size of sheep! But the soil is very well drained and fairly poor, which probably suits them.

Jasione montana is native here too, but rarely grown in gardens. Which is a shame. I see the small copper butterfly is enjoying yours.

Re C. barbata - this form originates from Switzerland, and all mine are this pale blue colour. I think I like your form better. I wonder if there is a white form?
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Roma on July 06, 2020, 08:31:59 PM
Codonopsis clematidea often masquerades as other species in the seed lists.  I had a few attempts before I got the true Codonopsis ovata which I think has a much prettier flower.

Codonopsis clematidea

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Codonopsis ovata

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Campanula thyrsoides which is aiming to be another of the 'weeds' in my garden where I leave far too many seedlings.

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Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Roma on July 06, 2020, 08:36:37 PM
Posted the wrong clematidea pictures.  That was a nearly white one.  This is the normal form with stronger markings.

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Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: hamparstum on July 06, 2020, 10:01:46 PM
Roma, wonderful pictures!. Is the pink flower on the right side of C.thyrsoides a Gladiolus species?. Your C.thyrsoides would remind me to a whitish foxglove from a distance. Your picture has changed my mind about it. Now I want to give it a try in combination with Digitalis and some other spiring flowers. My next question mark is  Codonopsis a trailing plant here. Do you grow it as part of a border and let it  mingle freely?. I'm very partial to all Campanulaceae , although I'm very new to their collection yet. Thank you for posting these.
Arturo
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Claire Cockcroft on July 06, 2020, 11:45:17 PM
Campanula latifolia 'Hidcote Amethyst'
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Campanula moessiaca
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A darker campanula, could be a cross of C. moessiaca with C. glomerata, or just a darker C. moessiaca
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Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Tristan_He on July 06, 2020, 11:49:13 PM
I like your C. thyrsoides Roma, but it's a lot taller than I thought based on photos from the wild. Is it always like that? I haven't grown this one to flowering yet but have some strong looking seedlings coming on from the last seed exchange.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Roma on July 08, 2020, 09:54:02 PM
Roma, wonderful pictures!. Is the pink flower on the right side of C.thyrsoides a Gladiolus species?. Your C.thyrsoides would remind me to a whitish foxglove from a distance. Your picture has changed my mind about it. Now I want to give it a try in combination with Digitalis and some other spiring flowers. My next question mark is  Codonopsis a trailing plant here. Do you grow it as part of a border and let it  mingle freely?. I'm very partial to all Campanulaceae , although I'm very new to their collection yet. Thank you for posting these.
Arturo
Thank you, Arturo.  The plant next to the Campanula thyrsoides is Gladiolus communis which has spread over the garden but does not become a nuisance.  The Codonopsis do tend to sprawl.  The clematidea is growing in a border which is very weedy and it leans on the grass. I meant to dead head it when I planted it but don't always remember in time so it is spreading.  It has a tap root so is not easy to get rid of if you let it get big.   The C.ovata is a more delicate plant.  I only have the one planted out but have a few in small pots where it has self sown in the frame.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Roma on July 08, 2020, 10:09:26 PM
Tristan, I got the Campanula thyrsoides carniolica, wild collected seed from the SRGC 2010-2011 seed exchange.  It was sown in January 2011.  The potted seedlings never got planted out and flowered in the open frame in 2013. They did not grow very tall.  I did not think any seed had been set till I saw seedlings appear in neighbouring pots the following year.  I think some flower as biennials and some take another year.  I think the height varies with nutrition and water supply.  The one I photographed is 30 cm. high.  Two on the raised bed last year with very good drainage and not much rain were much smaller.  There are two in the frame where seedlings and bought plants linger till I get round to planting them.  They are quite big because they get watered when it doesn't rain.  I notice lots of small seedlings there so must remove them before the overwhelm the rightful occupants of the pots.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Knud on July 10, 2020, 10:31:40 PM
A Campanula I got many years ago as Molly Pinsent. It grew well in the rock garden and it took remarkably long before the slugs discovered it. Two years ago I salvaged what was left and planted it in a trough (shallow, round glazed pot) where it has made good comeback.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Maggi Young on July 13, 2020, 07:45:01 PM
A message  from dear  Erich Pasche about  this  Campanula ....

"Dear Plantfriends,
In February 2010 I received seeds - supposed to be Campanula 'sosnowskyi' from the NARGS, which obviously represents an other species. It developed leaves every year but flowered for the first time this year. It is about 40 cm high and flowered profusely. It was collected in Georgia, but according to "The Caucasus and its Flowers" it cannot be this species. So far  I was unable to find out which species it really is. Perhaps somebody has an idea about the plant shown on the pictures, and I would be very grateful for any advice you can give.

Best wishes and have a nice summer,
Erich"

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photos are  from the  26th and  30th June
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Maggi Young on July 13, 2020, 08:02:12 PM
A message  from dear  Erich Pasche about  this  Campanula ....

"Dear Plantfriends,
In February 2010 I received seeds - supposed to be Campanula 'sosnowskyi' from the NARGS, which obviously represents an other species. It developed leaves every year but flowered for the first time this year. It is about 40 cm high and flowered profusely. It was collected in Georgia, but according to "The Caucasus and its Flowers" it cannot be this species. So far  I was unable to find out which species it really is. Perhaps somebody has an idea about the plant shown on the pictures, and I would be very grateful for any advice you can give.

Best wishes and have a nice summer,
Erich"
I wonder  if  this  may be  Campanula  sarmatica?  But  should  the  foliage  be  more  grey  and  pubescent?
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Knud on July 13, 2020, 10:19:04 PM
This is what I grew as C. sarmatica for several years, and the flowers in Erich's pictures certainly remind me of it. The leaves on our plants were indeed a greyish green and 'felty', but the shape quite similar to Erich's plant.

Please give my best wishes to Erich, Maggi.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: hamparstum on July 14, 2020, 12:07:38 AM
 From my comparisons with pictures from the Russian site for C.sarmatica, photos look very much like the pictures you have posted:
i.e view
https://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/113141.html (https://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/113141.html)
https://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/428130.html (https://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/428130.html)

A very valuable contribution! Sergey Banketov offers it in his current seed list!
Arturo
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Maggi Young on July 14, 2020, 10:41:25 AM
Thank you Knud and Arturo for  your  input.  I also asked  Vojtech Holubec about  the  plant and  he  too thinks  it  is  a  form of C. sarmatica.
I'll be  letting  Erich know  the  conclusions we've  come  to  here - and  will of  course pass  on your  good  wishes to this  good  friend  of  SRGC. 
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Maggi Young on July 14, 2020, 12:48:20 PM
Just in, this reply  to my  query  to Graham Nicholls- a man who has  forgotten more  about  Campanulas than most  of  us  knew  was  possible!
 Graham writes : "  I have been through several books including 'Ornamental Plants from Russia and adjacent states' and I keep coming back to your initial ID C. sarmatica. If the flowers were white I would have said C. dolomitica or C. alliariifolia. The leaves seem to be quite large just like C. dolomitica though. Googleing C. sosnowskyi and checking it in 'The Caucasus and its  flowers' the plant in the photo cannot be it. So.... C. sarmatica does seem to be the answer but nothing like seeing it in real life to ID it properly. Hope that's some help. "

 Thanks, Graham! 
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Leucogenes on July 18, 2020, 11:17:21 AM
Does anyone have any idea which Campanula this is?  The flowers are very small (about 1 cm) and have a striking pink stripe.

Thanks
Thomas
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Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Gerdk on July 18, 2020, 11:37:39 AM
This looks like a form of Campanula cashmeriana.

Gerd
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 18, 2020, 03:56:55 PM
If it's that small it could be Campanula lourica.
I grew a white form a few years ago http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=207.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=207.0)
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Roma on July 19, 2020, 03:04:52 PM
I have a similar Campanula seeding around in my greenhouse.  I think I got it many years ago as aff. cashmeriana.  I decided, according to Graham Nicholls' book it was probably Campanula samarkandensis.  I find it behaves like a lot of Violas and produces lots of apomictic seed.

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Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Leucogenes on July 21, 2020, 11:22:51 AM
Thank you for your efforts Gerd and Fermi...


I think I found the right name...Campanula cashmeriana var. alba...I found a photo near Pavelka of which the seeds probably were. Indian Himalayas, 3300 meters.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Roma on July 30, 2020, 01:33:49 PM
Cyananthus integer x sherriffii - from Jack Drake's nursery a very long time ago.

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Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Diane Whitehead on July 30, 2020, 06:30:37 PM
This is from the 2013 seed exchange, listed as Campanula versicolor.

I have just read about C versicolor - its leaves are used as a winter salad.  From one website:  A delicious mild flavour with a slight sweetness that reminds people of freshly-picked garden peas - they can be added in quantity to salads and are usually available in winter

Well!  No one would want to eat my plants.  Prickly stems, prickly leaves. Even the deer won't eat it.

So it is obviously not C. versicolor but what is it?

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Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Carolyn on July 30, 2020, 08:29:57 PM
I don’t know what it is, but what a brilliant colour!
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Diane Whitehead on July 31, 2020, 06:22:52 AM
Well, Carolyn, I wish it really was so blue.  My iPad improved the lavender colour for me.

I've searched my three campanula books and the internet.

I think maybe it could be Campanula primulifolia.  The flowers look similar. Lewis and Lynch's book says the stems are "hispid", which means "bristly".  Tomorrow I will go out to see if the plant matches the rest of the description.
Title: Re: Campanula and relatives 2020
Post by: Roma on October 29, 2020, 09:13:38 PM
Campanula cashmeriana is still flowering.  It seeds into other pots in the greenhouse.  This one sharing a pot with Polygala calcarata is doing much better than the one I put into its own pot.  Maybe it prefers to have company.

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