Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Amaryllidaceae => Topic started by: Maggi Young on February 19, 2020, 12:20:13 PM
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From a tweet by Advolly Richmond ....
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The Nerine and Amaryllid Society are looking for a home for the Nerine sarniensis collection on mainland UK - this needs a large heated glasshouse. Plant Heritage Guernsey has offered but NASoc need to have a duplicate collection on the mainland if poss. Can you help? Please contact the society if you think you can help...... email to nerinesociety@gmail.com
http://www.nerineandamaryllidsociety.co.uk/ (http://www.nerineandamaryllidsociety.co.uk/)
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Thanks for publicising this, Maggi; I think we may have found a home (or two homes!) for the collection.
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Excellent news, Malcolm!!
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Nerine angulata
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Nerine masoniorum
cheers
fermi
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Nerine fothergilla 'Major' has been lumped into N. sarniensis but I keep it under the old name as it is distinct in my opinion; it's certainly hardier.
The first pic is from a couple of weeks ago when it first started to flower; the second is from yesterday as the last cluster starts to fade
cheers
fermi
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Nerine rosea has also been subsumed by N. sarniensis which I find even less understandable
cheers
fermi
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Nerine 'Ariel' is an old hybrid that I got about 40 years ago.
It comes through our winters without protection but is grown at the base of a sprawling rose.
It's flowering nicely this year
cheers
fermi
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Ariel is lovely - none of mine are that colour.
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Hi Diane,
I don't know the heritage of this hybrid, but I got a similar colour by crossing N. rosea and N. fothergilla 'Major', but they don't flower regularly so here's a pic from 2018
cheers
fermi
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First flowers on a cross between a red Nerine sarniensis hybrid and Nerine rosea I made a few years ago
cheers
fermi
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Another seedling, this one is from seed of one of the Nerine sarniensis hybrids and is a soft pastel pink,
cheers
fermi
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Fermi,
Do you have a goal for your hybridizing?
My plan is to produce hardy ones I can grow outside, so I've been crossing bowdenii with various sarniensis. I should also use undulata - it's so eager that its seedlings are in a lot of my pots. Great excitement - my pot of Wurmbea is about to flower - oh, no. it's just a usurping undulata. So I think undulata needs to be banished to the garden.
Diane
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Hi Diane,
most of my hybridising is random - mostly whatever is in flower at the same time.
However I'm using what I still call Nerine rosea because it is hardy here. I haven't tried using N. undulata yet - here what we used to call N. flexuosa "Alba" is considered to be a form of N. undulata. But they usually flower in May while most of the others flower in April. I haven't got into pollen saving
cheers
fermi
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First flowers on a cross between a red Nerine sarniensis hybrid and Nerine rosea I made a few years ago
cheers fermi
Good work there Fermi. There are some new Dutch bowdeniis that are close to that colour, as well as many good red bowdenii x sarniensis. Be interesting to get some of those genes into that hybrid to produce summer flowerers.
john
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Good work there Fermi. There are some new Dutch bowdeniis that are close to that colour, as well as many good red bowdenii x sarniensis. Be interesting to get some of those genes into that hybrid to produce summer flowerers.
john
Hi John,
I was told a while ago by a nerine breeder that the problem with Nerine bowdenii is that its hybrids are sterile so breeding lines aren't possible. I haven't used it myself because it struggles in this garden! I got one recently and it flowered and I put some pollen on it so will have to see for myself!
cheers
fermi
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a note I wrote: interspecific crosses are often sterile but produce fertile pollen.
I did not write the source.
I crossed N undulata with N bowdenii Edelweiss but the seeds did not germinate
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Unnamed Nerine hybrids, pink and white,
from Peter Genat in the Dandenongs a few years ago
cheers
fermi
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This hybrid came from someone at our garden club at one of our Swaps Days.
I've planted it at the base of an apple tree to afford it some protection,
cheers
fermi
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Nerine filifolia last week and yesterday
cheers
fermi
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Nerine flexuosa 'Alba' is apparently now included in Nerine undulata but not in our garden 😁
cheers
fermi
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Nerine flexuosa 'Alba'
Such a nice plant 8)
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Such a nice plant 8)
Yes, Ashley, and usually in flower on Mother's day so especially nice.
Here's another "reclassified" one - we got it as Nerine crispa but it's apparently also included in Nerine undulata.
It's flowering along with N. 'Afterglow' which is supposed to be a N. bowdenii hybrid,
cheers
fermi
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Nerine pudica which we got last year flowering against a background of Nerine filifolia
cheers
fermi
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This pink nerine had not flowered since it was planted here a long time ago until this season!
cheers
fermi
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Nerine flexuosa 'Alba' is apparently now included in Nerine undulata but not in our garden 😁
The pink form has now joined the white in flower
cheers
fermi
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Nerine gracilis
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A nice one, Ashley. Its wide petals are quite unusual in the genus.
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Nerine bowdenii var. wellsii ex Mont Aux Sources, South Africa -
seeds came from the late Harry Hay
Gerd
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Nerine bowdenii in the dry garden at Hyde Hall
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I started growing Nerines from seed in the early 1990s and I have never had such a great flowering season as this year's. Some named cultivars but the most are hp crosses the late Sir Peter Smithers sent me around that time.
This one is rather catchy, Nerine PS-19-05 ('Cpt. Dunn-Cook' x 'Revlon')-23423d x ('Pompadour' x 'Revlon')-23422b
johnw
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Hi John
The brilliant reds are so hard to capture in a photo.
The image I see is almost to bright to see well.
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That is a purer red than any of mine.
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The dark ones are just starting now, usually later than many of the others - Nerine PS-02-08 'Quest' x ('Zambia' x 'Ken Scott')-24113b.
Next Nerine PS-17-03 'Rosita Missoni' x 'Ken Scott' with an unusual colour combination - brilliant pink with lavender centres.
A new white/pink from the very first batch of seed Sir Peter sent me & now labelled Nerine 1st Seedling - smallest runts SPS-X20; slow to flower due to extreme crowing in the pot; 8 flower in the truss which is not bad for a first flowerting. Hopefully more oer truss down the road.
And sibling X-21 with incredible glistening petals.
Lastly outdoors where N. bowdenii 'Bianca Perla' took a bit of a tattering with the rains.
john - a chilly 54F today with badly needed torrential rains.
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Such lovely flowers John. I do particularly like the dark ones but the white/pink is very pretty.
This is Copperhead (from Exbury).
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I always frowned on any Nerines with mauve in them. Many years ago I was called out by a friend who had studied with Constance Spry, I had asked her how she'd possibly use those hideous magenta rhodos in an arrangement for a National Rhodo meeting here. She said "we'll see". Combined with Bells of Ireland & other green flowers she stole the show with glorious arrangements.
Now I see the beauty and have even taken a shine to the grey-mauves which are stunning arranged with bold green flowers.
Gail - your 'Copperhead' is stunning!
john
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Now I see the beauty and have even taken a shine to the grey-mauves which are stunning arranged with bold green flowers.
john
A few grey-mauves and a new rather early purple - Nerine PS-02-08 'Quest' x ('Zambia' x 'Ken Scott')-24113b.
john
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My Quest, which I have had for several decades, is a grayed-mauve.
However, when I look up Quest on various nerine websites, it is white with a pink line down the centre of each petal.
Does Rothschild have it wrong?
Are there two Quests?
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Diane, I bought 'Quest' from the National Collection holder Ken Hall on the Isle of Wight on Sunday. Definitely in the mauve/grape-purple end of the spectrum, my photo is recording a bit too pink;
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Oh, thanks, Gail. I'm glad we haven't got the name wrong over here.
But what about Rothschild's Quest? https://www.nerines.com/palestrina---roy-prior.html
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I'll email and ask.
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I was at Exbury on Saturday for the Nerine and Amaryllid Society's event there; friendly people and a fantastic display of flowers.
Amarines;
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Sorry, I was going to add more images but struggling with the tech at the moment!
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More amarines;
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Nerine display in the Five Arrows Gallery;
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N. bowdenii hybrids
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'Prince of Darkness'
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Amschel
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Arabian Nights
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Georgia
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Hotspur
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Sir Peter Smithers
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The glasshouse
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'Grape Juice'
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hardy nerines
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Nerine bowdenii in the rock garden
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I'm still drooling over 'Amschel' - superb!!
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Gorgeous isn't it!
After visiting Exbury I went across to stay with my sister on the Isle of Wight and Ken Hall, the National Collection holder, very kindly let us visit his collection. He was delightful and is probably one of the best horticulturalists I've met; everything was grown to the very highest standard and he is not just into nerines but also some interesting succulents and has an expanding snowdrop collection and things like sternbergias...
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Nerine bowdenii 'Ostara'
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Nerine bowdenii 'Mark Fenwick'
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And what about this for a display of bowdenii?
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And to finish off the weekend, I stopped at Wisley on my way home on Monday;
Nerine bowdenii 'Vesta K'
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Nerine bowdenii 'Like a Virgin'
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and displayed in the glasshouse
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'Akhenaten'
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and Nerine sarniensis 'Mertoun'
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Gail
After that what;s your idea of an encore?
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Do have plans for next Saturday... :)
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Thank you for all these wonderful photos Gail. Magnificent.
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Smashing shots there Gail, some day I'll have to make it over to see these collections.
Which were the new bowdeniis that stood out in your mind?
I spent the last 2 weeks trying to assess and record stats on the better Nerines here. It's a bit of a horror show keeping things straight. Discovered one with 17 flowers per truss, not fully opened yet.
A few new ones from today, Quest seems to figure prominently in the parentage of a number of very good ones here:
Nerine PS-13-03 'David Lionel' x 'Simone' selfed-25507b - will pot this one seperately to see if it will bulk up with more flowers. Cranberry red & impossible to capture properly.
Nerine PS-05 ('Belladonna' x 'Stephanie')-26425a x 'Simone' selfed-25507a
Nerine PS-02-08 'Quest' x ('Zambia' x 'Ken Scott')-24113b
A lovely sunny day at 19c after torrential rains yesterday.
johnw
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I like 'Lipstick' best of the new bowdenii. Wisley have planted a lot of 'Like a Virgin' around the glasshouse cafe area. I'm not sure that it is an improvement on 'Bianca Perla' although possibly a more popular selling name...
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I like 'Lipstick' best of the new bowdenii. Wisley have planted a lot of 'Like a Virgin' around the glasshouse cafe area. I'm not sure that it is an improvement on 'Bianca Perla' although possibly a more popular selling name...
See Gail's photo of Nerine 'Lipstick' here : https://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=16966.msg407985#msg407985
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I like 'Lipstick' best of the new bowdenii. Wisley have planted a lot of 'Like a Virgin' around the glasshouse cafe area. I'm not sure that it is an improvement on 'Bianca Perla' although possibly a more popular selling name...
re: N. bowdenii 'Lipstick'
Agreed, we're anxiously awaiting the day when the Dutch get it to Canada!
john
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Diane - reply from Nick de Rothschild regarding the 'Quest';
"I think our Quest came in a batch of bulbs from Wisley - and where that came from who knows! Often what happens is a seed will drop into a pot and up comes a new hybrid, and before you know it someone else puts a label in it. Ken's Quest probably came from Norris and so on. I am afraid we are not over fussy and in this case I photographed a pot which had Quest on the label. If I were you/she I'd take Ken's as the correct one - he is, after all, one of the greatest nerine growers around."
Nikko
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Thanks, Gail.
I wonder if Nick will amend his website.
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How I miss the weekly reports Luit would post from Lisse! Why have none of the spectacular N. bowdenii selections ever been released?
johnw
20c here today and mild through next week.
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I bought Bianca Perla, Bicolor, Edelweiss, Isabel, and Lipstick last year from Phoenix Perennials in Vancouver. Bianca Perla is in flower right now.
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A couple of Nerine bowdenii in flower outside today. Nerine bowdenii (Ken Hall's best white which may have a name now.) and the lovely Nerine bowdenii 'Isabel'. 'Bianca Perla' is still in flower, while virus infected it doesn't seem to affect its vigour; I reckon slugs are the speaders.
johnw
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Lovely plants all.
Here's a relatively ordinary N. humilis humilis but cheery on a dull day in the company of a fading rheum.
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John,
You wrote that your Bianca Perla is virused. Do you think it came in from Holland already virused?
What should I be looking for to see if mine is also?
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Gail
After that what;s your idea of an encore?
At the beginning of this thread Maggie mentioned that they were looking for a new home for the National Collection of Nerine sarniensis built up by Steve Eyre. Ed Brown (son of Bob Brown of Cotswold Garden Flowers) has taken it on and had an open day yesterday for members of the Nerine and Amaryllid Society. We has a lovely, socially distanced visit, no sun sadly to give the petals that nerine sparkle but plenty of flamboyant colour and I've found that quite a few have that sweet, almost chocolatey scent that many bearded iris exhibit. Bob very kindly made an excellent, really moist coffee and walnut cake with a fudgey topping...
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Quite a few nerines do a colour change as the flowers mature - particularly noticeable in N. 'Caroline' which goes from peach to mauve.
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Nerine sarniensis 'Hamilton'
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'Helford'
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'Joyous'
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'Kenilworth'
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'Lavandu'
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'Loch Hermidale'
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Beautiful!
Did Ed mention whether he is going to just maintain the collection or use it to breed new nerines?
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'Norah Hamilton'
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'Ramsdown'
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'Tamilla'
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'Tugela'
Many thanks for Bob and Ed for hosting. Of course a few nerines came home with me and I'm concentrating on those with scent and shall be doing some pollen dabbling with that in mind;
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'Chocolate Flavour'
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Beautiful!
Did Ed mention whether he is going to just maintain the collection or use it to breed new nerines?
I didn't think to ask - need a repeat trip....
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and a few more plants?
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Well, it would be rude not to!
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John,
You wrote that your Bianca Perla is virused. Do you think it came in from Holland already virused?
What should I be looking for to see if mine is also?
Absolutely. Leaf streaking.
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Gail - Bravo!
john
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I didn't think to ask - need a repeat trip....
Of course! If only to see if Bob provides another coffee walnut cake!( My absolute favourite!!)
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Beautiful photos, Gail!
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Absolutely. Leaf streaking.
A year or two ago I had a similar experience with 'Codora' from a garden centre, but imported.
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'Joyous' and 'Tamila' are unique, lovely. Ashley - how did you handle the virus outbreak? The Society recommends cutting back on nitrogen which seems to cause it to awaken from dormancy, white ones seem particularly siuceptible. The DMR once gave us a variegated Iris foetidissima & a white berried form one of which turned to be viral and wiped out all our I. foetidissimas; she had forewarned us!
johnw
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I burned it John, once the problem became obvious. Yes nitrogen may have exacerbated the signs.
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Seems to have been a wave of first flowering reds this year. This one looks promsiing and one of the latest.
Nerine PS-10-20 [('Tibet' x ('Wavebush' x 'Foudroyant')-27320b)]-30710
johnw
drizzle
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Nerine bowdenii trials report from the RHS trials 2012-2017
https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/pdfs/plant-trials-and-awards/Nerine-bowdenii-Final-11JUN2018.pdf
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In the trial a pure white one is called Blanca Perla. Many suppliers call it Bianca Perla - I guess someone misread the L as an I and the mistake was widely copied.
The Bianca Perla I bought is not pure white, though. Its buds are pale pink and when it opens, it is almost white with pink stamens. It looks like one called Ostara, though that is part of a group of mixed-up misnamed ones that the trial decided to call Stefanie.
I feel like just calling my plants by their colours - so I have bowdenii Bright Pink, Pale Pink, Really Pale Pink, White.
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In the trial a pure white one is called Blanca Perla. Many suppliers call it Bianca Perla - I guess someone misread the L as an I and the mistake was widely copied.
The Bianca Perla I bought is not pure white, though. Its buds are pale pink and when it opens, it is almost white with pink stamens. It looks like one called Ostara, though that is part of a group of mixed-up misnamed ones that the trial decided to call Stefanie.
I feel like just calling my plants by their colours - so I have bowdenii Bright Pink, Pale Pink, Really Pale Pink, White.
Even the RHS are confused - they use 'Blanca Perla' in the trial report above but in the nice AGM hardy Nerine RHS Grower Guide that they have just published they have it as 'Bianca Perla'.
At Ken Hall's National Collection;
Ostara
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Stefanie
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I think if you removed the labels it would be difficult to choose between them by flower colour, apparently the Dutch 'Rowie' and 'Nikita' are similar, so your solution certainly makes sense!
'Ella K' is another white with peachy/pink buds;
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Here are two bowdenii I bought: labelled Bianca Perla and Bicolor, though I suspect neither may be correct.
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Gail - Congrats on your NAAS first prize photo of Narcissus virdiflora this morning. It was a good meeting wasn't it.
johnw
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Gail - Congrats on your NAAS first prize photo of Narcissus virdiflora this morning. It was a good meeting wasn't it.
johnw
Thank you John, yes excellent and of course a Zoom meeting allows for an international gathering - just a shame not to see everyone, and share coffee and cake! I did enjoy Michael's talk.
For those who don't know this was the Nerine and Amaryllid Society first Zoom AGM. Actually the first AGM meeting I've attended but they usually hold a 'beauty contest'; show and tell for plant addicts and this year it ran virtually.
http://www.nerineandamaryllidsociety.co.uk/2020-beauty-competition
Michael Myers gave a lecture on Snowdrops and Snowflakes, a subject close to my heart!
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Nerine 'Mr John' - my camera sensor finds these really deep coloured ones tricky, the purple stripe down the centre of the petals is more pronounced to my eye.
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Some late ones in flower today after a very early Nerine year. Just too lazy do the reaching to locate the codes.
johnw
a grey, chilly 6c after summer-like weather
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And lastly this one which has just opened.
Nerine PS-02-13 'Quest' x ('Zambia' x 'Ken Scott')-24113b
A catchy flower but with only 6 flowers it had better improve in the future or else it will be culled.
johnw
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Mine generally have 5, 6, or 7 flowers. I like them well-spaced so I can see each individual flower.
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Mine generally have 5, 6, or 7 flowers. I like them well-spaced so I can see each individual flower.
I take your point, Diane - this is something which I think is overlooked in the Show world for bulbs- where only an enormous potful, crammed with iris reticulata or crocus, for example, ever stands a chance of winning. Trouble, as I see it, is that none of the flowers can be seen properly and admired for itself in that situation. More sparse planting can certainly be better in a show pot, or in a clump of flowers in the garden - so we can thoroughly admire the individual blooms!
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I rescued a number of Nerine bowdenii, a couple of years ago, from a family garden before the house was sold, and planted them out in a spare bit of my garden. They almost all flowered this year and rather than leave them, I cut them in several batches for indoor display. I was surprised than a good proportion of them formed seeds heads indoors, so kept them in water long after the flowers were over to see how many seeds I get. Some seeds are ~6mm in diameter now. Is this normal behaviour for cut flowers; are they self fertile? They were in the family garden for 40 years or more so no idea of the starting numbers.
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Brian - I've seen this many times. I even suspect thoroughly immature pods fall off when I'm deadheading, they mature & sprout in pots on the bench.
I sent a fellow in Oz a batch of Nerine seeds and they got there in 2 weeks BUT all had sprouted with leaves when the inspector opened the package. Needless to say he destroyed the lot not only for being seedlings but also for the bits & pieces they had sluffed off in transit. Sent again with less mature pods and we got lucky.
Maggi-Diane I certainly see the point & agree but would not give an elepidote rhodo truss that is supposed to be full, but isn't on the show bench, high marks. I guess I'd have to see what Nerine spp. in the wild tell me. Sir Peter Smithers told me when he sent the crosses to ignore any with less than 12-14 in a head. We had a 19 and a 20 this year and they certainly were congested but boy did they sparkle in flower!
john
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Is this normal behaviour for cut flowers; are they self fertile?
Brian, see John Grimshaw's blog for the story of the old Japanese breeder who sent some flowers before committing hara-kiri. Of course the "What he had not bargained with was that nerines mature their seeds very quickly after flowering" does not ring true as an old breeder would surely have noticed that, so perhaps he wanted his friend to continue his work.
https://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.com/2010/10/not-only-pink-part-one.html
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...Nerine bowdenii... I cut them in several batches for indoor display. I was surprised than a good proportion of them formed seeds heads indoors, so kept them in water long after the flowers were over to see how many seeds I get. Some seeds are ~6mm in diameter now. Is this normal behaviour for cut flowers; are they self fertile? ...
Hi Brian,
I've often saved cut-flowers of nerines for the seed. There seems to be enough "food" in the stems to allow the seed to develop to maturity.
cheers
fermi
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Thanks everyone. I only have 1 one group, apart from a few odd bulbs in pots. My neighbour has several clumps with much wider flowering range. Might get a few stems and see what I get.
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Brian - Were you able to snag any white bowdeniis?
john
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Nerine 'Annie Darling' - dense heads of flowers with that lovely chocolatey scent but the stem isn't strong enough to support the flowers.
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Gail,
I've never noticed a scent in any Nerine. Are many of them scented?
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Quite a few of them actually - it is not strong but the ones I've noticed have predominantly had that sweet chocolatey fragrance that you find in some bearded irises.
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Brian - Were you able to snag any white bowdeniis?
john
Unfortunately not at present John. Very many years ago I was given a range of Nerines, but have moved house since and have just a few now. Parentage not known. Don't think it included a white. There are some odd mauve/pinks that do not appeal to me at all. Is there a good illustrated list of named forms?
I got this link today. https://www.cotswoldgardenflowers.co.uk/ (you should see a lot of Nerines but this is probably a changing link)
Brian Whyer, SE UK
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The white bowdenii I have is Edelweiss.
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Nerine undulata
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