Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: Gabriela on June 09, 2019, 02:02:03 PM
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I think this may be a good time to open a thread on growing Adonis species from seeds. Probably everyone knows that from dry seeds the success of germination is close to zero (I've tried A. vernalis twice).
Interesting that sometimes even from fresh seeds it poses problems, which I suspect is due to entering a second dormancy (like many other Ranunculaceae).
Last year in June I was lucky to receive fresh seeds of Adonis amurensis from Leena :-* They were sown and kept in a shaded place in the garden. The summer was very dry (of course I watered) and last winter, normal I would say, in any case not much colder than in Finland.
In the spring my seeds germinated; Leena also sowed a pot and hers didn't: same seeds, about same date of sowing, almost the same conditions.
For a while I wondered if maybe I have some other seeds in the pot....
Anyway, this is how they look now, in the cotyledon leaves stage since early spring. I welcome others to contribute with theirs experience in growing Adonis from seeds.
Adonis amurensis
[attachimg=1]
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That's a great result Gabriela. I wonder what the key trigger was?
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That's a great result Gabriela. I wonder what the key trigger was?
Me and Leena kept comparing the conditions Ashley and couldn't figure out what is it.
The pot was in a group with other summer sowings (Corydalis, Sanguinaria. Hepatica...) in a small frame which I found embedded in ice in the spring, literally. I had to use a sort of 'ice breaker' to release them one by one because they needed to be moved to another place with more light.
In the process I destroyed some of course but the contents were easy to transfer in others - they were ice blocks. I don't know if I explain it well.
Could this be the reason?
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Gabriela, thank you for the picture. There was no picture of Adonis seedlings in the internet that I could find either.
I have one lonely seedling looking just like that in a pot of Adonis seeds from summer 2017! I am so glad to see that the seeds were fine, and fertile, and it was only me, so now there is hope that also I get seedlings one year. :)
I think my mistake with the seeds was that I kept the pot in the greenhouse (under table in shade), where it got too hot for the seeds in the summer. The reason why I did, was that there the pot was under my eyes and I could keep it watered. Outside if I forgot it, it may have dried out (that has happened with other seeds). I had also some Hepatica seed pots in the greenhouse, with no germination (or one seedling), and I suspect all the seeds had gone into dormancy when it was too hot. I hope they will germinate next spring. Also my pots were in the root cellar for the winter, where the temperature was around +1-2C, just above freezing, and outside under snow it would have been colder. Now that I think, I have found that Ranunculaceae-family (like Aconitums) seeds many times germinate better if kept outside colder. These were so special seeds that I wanted to give them more protection and it may have been a mistake.
Now, this years seeds are sown in pots which are outside in shade and covered with plastic to keep them moist (I can't rely in water coming from sky, and I may also forget to check them often enough), and I will keep my fingers crossed.
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I just remembered: strangely Galanthus seeds from my own plants germinated fine in the same conditions I described, and they were just next to my Adonis pot. I don't know...
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... in the greenhouse (under table in shade), where it got too hot for the seeds in the summer.
That makes sense Leena, that adonis are susceptible to summer heat whereas your galanthus were not.
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I don't really think the summer heat in the greenhouse was the real problem Leena, and maybe not even the lack of very cold temp.
For those who never visited southern Ontario it may be hard to believe how hot it gets in the summer here, even in the shade.
Adonis seeds (just like those of Hepatica and other Ranun.) have an underdeveloped embryo at the time of collecting. Nothing much happens in the summer anyway, they start growing in late summer to early fall when the temp. start to cool down a bit. All this has been documented.
So, summer heat should be fine as long as they get lower temp. in the fall. And I supposed you don't heat the greenhouse Leena?
What I would like to understand mostly is the secondary dormancy process. Why the ones from 2017 didn't germinate better assuming that they got a second chance for the embryos growth?
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And I supposed you don't heat the greenhouse Leena?
No, there was not extra heat.
This is strange, because a friend of mine here sowed also his Adonis seeds fresh in the summer, kept the pot outside all summer well watered and also outside all winter under snow, and his seeds germinated this spring. So clearly there was something I did wrong.
Anyway, now I keep the pot outside until next spring and we'll see what happens then.
It would be good to understand better what happens and why.
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I obtained 4 immediate germinations once out of 10 seeds sown, by harvesting the seeds which are still green on the plant.
unfortunately the slugs devoured them!
only one remained, in the form of a persistent cotyledon (in the open air) until the following spring when a tiny stem developed. she also ended up getting eaten by slugs. For the same reason, I can no longer see my Adonis flower bloom. Maybe I should put it back in a large pot.
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I watched the fruiting bodies because I was afraid that the ants would steal them from me. and every day I palpated the fruit slightly, and to my surprise once, some seeds came off easily when they did not seem ripe (still very tender): these are the ones that germinated in a few weeks .
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Anyway, now I keep the pot outside until next spring and we'll see what happens then.
It would be good to understand better what happens and why.
I wrote that in 2019 and then the seeds kept outside all winter germinated well last spring. So they seem to want quite cold for the winter to break the dormancy.
Gabriela, when do you prick out Adonis seedlings? Second year?
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Leena very kindly sent me some fresh adonis seeds in June 2019. Germination has just started for me, but for Leena in Finland, one cold winter seems to have been enough to initiate germination. Thinking back, the winter of 2019 - 2020 here was mild and wet, with very little frost. The cold January/February this year (down to -6C at times) may have helped?
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Leena very kindly sent me some fresh adonis seeds in June 2019. Germination has just started for me, but for Leena in Finland, one cold winter seems to have been enough to initiate germination. Thinking back, the winter of 2019 - 2020 here was mild and wet, with very little frost. The cold January/February this year (down to -6C at times) may have helped?
Somehow I missed this dialogue about Adonis seeds. I have Adonis amurensis and Adonis ramosa and Adonis vernalis.
A.amurensis and ramosa- fresh seeds and sow outside, summer in gritty well drained soil and they germinate almost 90% next year. I have a seed starting bed . We have very cold long winter
A.vernalis - very few seeds but 1 or 2 seedlings in the garden voluntarily comes up.
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I wrote that in 2019 and then the seeds kept outside all winter germinated well last spring. So they seem to want quite cold for the winter to break the dormancy.
Gabriela, when do you prick out Adonis seedlings? Second year?
Leena - no doubt that all they want is to be sown asap and have a 'healthy' dose of cold in the winter, outdoors.
Because I had such a potful of seedlings I transplanted them after they went dormant in late summer. But they were so tiny! I think is best to grow them in the same pot for 2-3 years. Next time I get seeds (wink, wink... :) I'll use a bigger pot so they can develop nicely in it.
From the pot I showed, I made 3 (gifted one for good luck); not all of them came back last spring but here is how they were looking on April 8 last year.
Adonis amurensis - second year seedlings
[attachimg=1]
The pots are buried in the ground in the garden and I cannot wait to see them emerging :)
I also go every day around the garden spot where I planted your A. ramosa Kris, I hardly abstain to start scratching the ground!
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Hi Gabriela I got Adonis ramosa from Japan when I visited in 2015. I also got number of other varieties of Adonis but all died the following year. Got Adonis amurensis from Frazers thimble farm.
Unfortunately I can't find any difference between A.amurensis and ramosa.
If any one in the forum knows about it please help.
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Because I had such a potful of seedlings I transplanted them after they went dormant in late summer. But they were so tiny! I think is best to grow them in the same pot for 2-3 years. Next time I get seeds (wink, wink... :) I'll use a bigger pot so they can develop nicely in it.
Thank you Gabriela, I have the ones germinated last year outside in a pot, and will leave them there until they go dormant next summer.
Let's hope there are seeds in the bigger plants also this year :), I will remember you then!
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Thank you Gabriela, I have the ones germinated last year outside in a pot, and will leave them there until they go dormant next summer.
Let's hope there are seeds in the bigger plants also this year :), I will remember you then!
Thanks Leena :)
Hopefully there will be a nice Adonis flowering this spring :)
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Hi Gabriela I got Adonis ramosa from Japan when I visited in 2015. I also got number of other varieties of Adonis but all died the following year. Got Adonis amurensis from Frazers thimble farm. Unfortunately I can't find any difference between A.amurensis and ramosa.
If any one in the forum knows about it please help.
If you opened this discussion Kris, indeed some species were included with A. amurensis and it was a bit unclear what's what and what name to use, but luckily there is a group of people working on the Adonis group from NE Asia and they published papers with Identification Keys.
Here are the links:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2287884X18301614
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2287884X17301437
When you plants start flowering look closely and take good pictures. If my division flower I will do the same.
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According to the Flora of China, A. ramosa has glabrous leaves and A. amurensis has hairy leaves.
http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=100626
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According to the Flora of China, A. ramosa has glabrous leaves and A. amurensis has hairy leaves.
http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=100626
Thanks Rick.
I will take a good look at the plant this year. From my experience A.ramosa is a bit more robust than A.amurensis. Or may be it is because it is in a different spot.
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Rick and Kris - Flora of China (the on-line version) albeit a monumental work, has the associated inconvenient of being largely outdated for many genera.
When available, it is always advisable to follow the most recent publications, especially for work done in the respective native habitats, like in the case of Adonis.
It may be years until the genus Adonis gets to be updated (if ever).
Of course, anyone can follow and adopt whatever name for a plant, as long as is validly published.
For those interested, here is the key from the publication I provided the link (2018). The articles also contain well done plates with images of plants recorded in the wild.
An updated checklist of Adonis (Ranunculaceae) from Korea, with a new locality record for Adonis multiflora:
[attachimg=1]
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When available, it is always advisable to follow the most recent publications, especially for work done in the respective native habitats, like in the case of Adonis.
Right. I posted without seeing your more recent data. Also, the updates to the FOC after the initial work was done is no longer a collaboration of world botanists. Updating is since being done by Chinese botanists. Not to say this is necessarily a bad thing, but decisions are made with a smaller "big picture".
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Right. I posted without seeing your more recent data. Also, the updates to the FOC after the initial work was done is no longer a collaboration of world botanists. Updating is since being done by Chinese botanists. Not to say this is necessarily a bad thing, but decisions are made with a smaller "big picture".
I don't know who is still working on it but regardless, it is most probably that local floras for their various provinces are available and more up to date (albeit not accessible to us). And with the possibility to do lots of botanical field work they should be able to get quite a big picture by themselves, and with collaborations from the nearby countries sharing common species.
The little cutie flowered yesterday; the leaves are not very clear yet, so I abstain on the name for now.
[attachimg=1]
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I don't know who is still working on it but regardless, it is most probably that local floras for their various provinces are available and more up to date (albeit not accessible to us). And with the possibility to do lots of botanical field work they should be able to get quite a big picture by themselves, and with collaborations from the nearby countries sharing common species.
The little cutie flowered yesterday; the leaves are not very clear yet, so I abstain on the name for now.
(Attachment Link)
Adonis amurensis? Very nice. From my observation Adonis amurensis flowers before the leaf comes out.
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Adonis amurensis? Very nice. From my observation Adonis amurensis flowers before the leaf comes out.
This is the small Adonis division you sent me Kris (as A. ramosa), many thanks again.
When the leaves will expand further I would follow the ID key to see what species it fits. Indeed A. amurensis it is thought to be more precocious.
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This is the small Adonis division you sent me Kris (as A. ramosa), many thanks again.
When the leaves will expand further I would follow the ID key to see what species it fits. Indeed A. amurensis it is thought to be more precocious.
Gabriela I envy you. My adonis is still under snow.