Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Iris => Topic started by: Harald-Alex. on February 11, 2018, 01:32:24 PM
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After a period of snow and nightfrosts till -11°C now the Iris reticulata sprouts to flower.
They came under the snow to grow.
Foto 1: - Iris reticulata Katharine Hodgkin bevore opening
Foto 2: - Iris reticulata Beatrix Stanley
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Some reticulate Irises.
The first four are of Iranian provenance and come from a very generous forum member. The fifth is from Azerbaijan.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4677/28115939549_5c12066ffb_o_d.jpg) (08)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4668/28115939889_59f354c1c8_o_d.jpg)
(04)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4800/26824372468_d66f8d1b10_o_d.jpg) (03) Woops! I see there’s a sap-sucking wee beastie on this plant.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4796/26824372638_a3229c1dff_o_d.jpg) (06)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4652/28115939729_a8561d8355_o_d.jpg) (AS.09-23; coll. N.E. Azerbaijan)
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Some more “Retics”.
Iris pamphylica
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4723/39896988321_5bd8ee3b5e_o_d.jpg)
Iris kolpakowskiana -I have a few forms of this species but I find it difficult to grow. The bulbs are prone to rot and are also often reluctant to come into full growth once the shoot breaks through the top-dressing. I would be most grateful for any advice.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4699/39896988451_7483c77b08_o_d.jpg)
Iris zagrica
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4785/26824372778_49c939bc5e_o_d.jpg)
Iris bakeriana -I think(???).
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4786/39800823845_5bae20d176_o_d.jpg)
Iris reticulata caucasica
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4715/39896988031_acb01fdea0_o_d.jpg)
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Steve, I believe your "bakeriana" is actually Clairette. Clairette is cross of Iris reticulata x Iris bakeriana, which is why it and Gordon, for example, "look" like bakeriana. It doesn't help that when you buy bakeriana, you sometimes get Gordon.
Typically the fall blotch on bakeriana is very dark -- ink blue (in addition to the telltale octagonal leaves).
I tend to believe bakeriana is Iris reticulata var. Bakeriana. Which is to say I believe the species Iris reticulata is very variable. [I'm a lumper rather than a splitter]
We still have a lot to learn about Reticulata Iris
In the Mardin to Savur area of Turkey bakeriana does vary slightly.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Not a great picture, but here's the commercial bakeriana as sold by Jacques Amand (taken at RHS London Early Spring Plant Fair in 2014)
[attachimg=3]
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Thanks Alan.
I had some doubts as to whether my “bakeriana” was the real deal.
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Some reticulate Irises.
The first four are of Iranian provenance and come from a very generous forum member. The fifth is from Azerbaijan.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4677/28115939549_5c12066ffb_o_d.jpg) (08)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4668/28115939889_59f354c1c8_o_d.jpg)
(04)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4800/26824372468_d66f8d1b10_o_d.jpg) (03) Woops! I see there’s a sap-sucking wee beastie on this plant.
Picture 06 (4th from top) - it is Iris zagrica
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4796/26824372638_a3229c1dff_o_d.jpg) (06)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4652/28115939729_a8561d8355_o_d.jpg) (AS.09-23; coll. N.E. Azerbaijan)
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New reticulata iris species from Iran - altitude 2400 m
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Very interesting mutation of Turkish Iris reticulata - on picture it is side by side with normal flower. Will see how permanent will be this colour change.
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Some of Alan's hybridsd in my nursery (only those which I mostly like I'm still keeping)
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Some more of Alan McMurtrie hybrids
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New reticulata iris species from Iran - altitude 2400 m
Like that very much Janis - no name yet??
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Like that very much Janis - no name yet??
No name yet.
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Janis, do you think this is the same as one of the images I posted above (it was collected in Iran, I have no collection details)?
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New reticulata iris species from Iran - altitude 2400 m
Looks a bit like one of those presented on Alan's Website.
http://www.reticulatas.com/Iranian.html (http://www.reticulatas.com/Iranian.html)
Could it be the same?
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Janis, do you think this is the same as one of the images I posted above (it was collected in Iran, I have no collection details)?
No, I don't think so. There is another gathering from SLIZE (in 1998) - identical with mine. Today I sacrificed one for herbariu,m + another flower were fixed in details on sticky tape, the rest 4 flowers - all were pollinated
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Looks a bit like one of those presented on Alan's Website.
http://www.reticulatas.com/Iranian.html (http://www.reticulatas.com/Iranian.html)
Could it be the same?
Absolutely NOT!!! Alans plants with slightly similar colour are hybrids, this one is wild plant. Alan just asked me for one bulb of it. It was collected out of flowers in wild and now bloomed with me for the first timer (SLIZE's plant I had and already supposed that it is new one, but I needed confirmation that others are the same and it is not mistake or accidental mutation.
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The plant shown on Alan's site is shown as " An interesting species related to zagrica that was collected by Arnis Siesums (SLIZE 98-323 ex. GLUZ 98-323)."
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Thanks Susan!
I simply overlooked that "SLIZ 98" on Alan's website.
So I strongly guess both are the same plant.
Alan's remark is interesting: "....related to Iris zagrica".
What does Janis' think about this relationship?
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In attachment Iris zagrica from different localities. Note dimentions of standarts, proportions.
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Flowering today in the (rare) sunshine:
Iris Katharine's Gold. Especially for Maureen Wilson who asked me if I have heard of it on Saturday at the Kendal Show. She said nobody she asked had heard of it. My bulbs came from Potterton's Nursery last autumn. It's a mutation of Katharine Hodgkin found in a field of KH.
Iris winogradowii? 'Alba'. Most likely a hybrid of I. winogradowii and a white reticulate iris as it is sterile.
Iris kolpakowskiana.
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Thank you Cyril, and for the PM also drawing my attention to Iris 'Katherine's Gold'. I bought mine from amongst the sale plants at Cambo where it was showing colour but not open. It hibernated under the snow the 'Beast from the East' dumped on us. I rescued it from the cold frame after a week or so and put it in the sun and it opened within 20 minutes! This was about 10 days ago(?) and it is still flowering.
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Janis, your Turkish mutation is quite incredible.
Observations: The fall blade has a slightly different shape from the purple flower beside. The standard seems to be a bit glassine.
Hope it proves true !
Glad to hear you are interested in continuing to enjoy some of my hybrids
I had been fascinated when I first saw the sport of Pauline 11 years ago that is now called Painted Lady.
[attachimg=1]
Last year W van Lierop displayed a white sport of Pauline at the Lentetuin in Breezand, Holland
[attachimg=2]
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Concerning SLIZE 98-323 ex. GLUZ 98-323, Arnis kindly sent it to me in 1998. After seeing it bloom I referred to it as "Iran Ameona." I tried unsuccessfully to hybridize it. Two selfs did not work. I did get a few seeds (1 to 10) from about half the crosses I tried using its pollen, but I don't know that any germinated.
I understanding it is from the same region as zagrica. Janis and Arnis know more about it and it's location than I do.
I would love to try growing it again.
One of the things I'm currently trying to do is get a better understanding of Reticulata species. Last year I was "shaken" so-to-speak, to learn Norman Steven's Halkis is 2n=18. I had it back in 1998, but was so convinced that it was 2n=20 (and so busy with other things), that I never bothered to replant it. Had I done so, I would have discovered it had bulblets. Of course I also had Mathew's BM11026 at that same time, which had bulblets, but it did not hybridize like the Çat Retic, which is 2n=18. In fact I got a lot of large hollow seeds; some of which were liquidy. Some very small seeds were produced as a pod parent, but as far as I know none germinated. BM11026 was from further south than the Çat Retic.
Last year we also found out the Norman's Adiyaman Retic is 2n=16. One of the next steps is to see whether it crosses with histrioides.
Three years ago I got SASA-209 and JRRK-078 from Janis. I completely ignored them when they bloomed in 2016 -- they looked like any other Retic so-to-speak. However when I replanted them that Summer I discovered they produced bulblets. So of course I was keen to try crossing them in 2017. I didn't get any conclusive results, but I'm beginning to wonder if they might be 2n=16. I'll have to try some crosses with histrioides this year. (hint: a histrioides x JRRK-078 cross gave 16 seeds last year).
It would be quite exciting if one or both turned out to be 2n=16 !
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I found out yesterday that thanks to a mix-up I'm in the possession of 'Chameleon' - one of Alan's yet to be released cultivar :)
The pot has been in the ground in the garden over the winter, I just took it out to take better photos.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
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Dramatic colouring, Gabriela !
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I am not an iris specialist. Have only a few irises for some years.
Iris reticulata 'WHITE CAUCASUS' in the 3 meter trough.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
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Concerning SLIZE 98-323 ex. GLUZ 98-323, Arnis kindly sent it to me in 1998. After seeing it bloom I referred to it as "Iran Ameona." I tried unsuccessfully to hybridize it. Two selfs did not work. I did get a few seeds (1 to 10) from about half the crosses I tried using its pollen, but I don't know that any germinated.
Returning to Iris zagrica. I only recently got British Iris Soc. Bulletin and Curt.Bot.Mag with articles about Iris zagrica. It turned that for description of Iris zagrica was used plant looking as SLIZE-323, so this one certainly is typical zagrica and is pictured in British Iris Soc. (Winter Bull. 2008/9)
Although only 2 pictures looks as SLIZE-323, the type locality is in same region in Lorestan.
The WHIR plants looks as Iris zagrica pictured in Curt.Bot Mag. (vol. 26; 2009) and comes from Kurdistan and they are identical with Henrik's gathering EGO.IQ-129 from Iraq Kurdistan, and looks quite different from SLIZE-323
I don't think that both represent same species, but Irises are quite variable, too. There are 2 gatherings of WHIR and another gathering 17IRS-054 which again looks different. IRS plant was collected midway between both WHIR acquisitions.
Sorry, I'm attaching here pictures of 3 different plants, which were shown earlier, but here they all will be side by side for comparing.
The first is zagrica 16IRS-179 (identical with SLIZE-323) - most likely this is used as type
Then zagrica as pictured in Curt.Bot.Mag - WHIR-185
and then last spring found and nicknamed as dark zagrica -17IRS-054
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We had a Winter storm that lasted a week with ice pellets instead of snow: April 14-20. This delayed the last of Reticulata bloom and seemed to have an impact on pollen formation.
The very last Reticulata to bloom was actually Iris sisianica. Naturally I applied all manor of pollen onto it (other than self). Only a few 2n=20 hybrids were available to use it's pollen on.
I must say Norman Steven's Adyiaman Retic looks a lot like pamphylica. Being 2n=16 I did try intercrossing it with histrioides Lady Beatrix Stanley. I expect like winogradowii, if I do get plants, the hybrids will very likely be sterile
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Çat ANMc2175
[attachimg=4]
Norman Steven's Adiyaman
[attachimg=5]
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We must all hope that into May we can put hail storms and their like behind us for a while!
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Jon (Mini-bulb lover) is having troubling uploading pics so I suggested posting this pic for him.
"Hi Fermi,
Here's a photo of Iris vartanii.... Germinated in 2016 from Oron Peri seed (ex Mt Carmel, Israel). Very fast to flower, helped along by the long cool spring of 2016 which kept it in leaf for longer than normal. This reduced my wait until flowering by one year. I wish more springs were like it! Though it usually flowers in winter it's not uncommon for it to flower late autumn according to online information.
Regards
Jon"
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Thanks for posting that for me Fermi. I wish all reticulata irises reached flowering size so quickly!
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Nice surprise to find 2 blooms open at once on this little retic.
It's one of Alan McMurtrie's (the I.danfordiae influence is seen in the wispy uprights) which I got through Marcus Harvey years ago when Janis was selling them.
The label says 'Blue Ice' but I see a different iris (e.g. http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/plants_album/the%20plants%20-%20%20complete%20collection/iridaceae/Iris/Subgen%20Hermodactyloides/I.%20reticulata/slides/Iris%20reticulata%20Blue%20Ice%200002.html (http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/plants_album/the%20plants%20-%20%20complete%20collection/iridaceae/Iris/Subgen%20Hermodactyloides/I.%20reticulata/slides/Iris%20reticulata%20Blue%20Ice%200002.html) ) though I note that Peter T posted a similar pic on the forum in 2012.
Any comments?
cheers
fermi
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The most common Retic grown in Australia has to be 'Harmony' with its two-tone flowers of purply-blue (not as blue as in the pic).
This is the first one in our garden to open,
cheers
fermi
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A couple more
'Purple Gem' - from Hillview this year
'Gordon'
cheers
fermi
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Open today:
1) Iris 'Violet Beauty' with 'Gordon' behind
2) Iris 'Violet Beauty' originally from Lambley Nursery in 2014
3) Iris 'Violet Beauty' in another bed and colour not true in pic
4) Iris 'Goerge'
cheers
fermi
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You have a great collection Fermi. Thanks for posting
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You have a great collection Fermi. Thanks for posting
Hi Michael,
it's taken a few years of gathering as different varieties have become available over the years.
When I first started growing them 'Harmony' was the only one I could find!
It took a few years before its sport 'Alida' was brought into the country but now it's proving as amenable as its "parent"; here's the first of its flowers for this year
cheers
fermi
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After a couple of days more flowers have opened on Iris 'Alida' and the first flower on what I think is 'Springtime' but it might be 'Clairette' - I can't tell them apart!
cheers
fermi
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Some iris in flower in the garden today:
1) Iris 'Pauline' - recent purchase from Hillview;
2) Iris reticulata ex 04-IM grown by Jon B from seed from Alan McMurtie
3 & 4) more Iris 'Springtime'
cheers
fermi
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an unusual shade of ?turquoise blue : a cross I made way back in 1962 by putting pollen of Iris winogradowii onto the commercial form of Iris reticulata . This commercial form of reticulata seems to have vanished from the trade .
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That's a pretty one , Otto - though I find them all rather fetching!
Good to hear from you - hope you are well?
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I'm finding Iris vartanii (seed from Oron) is performing pretty well for me. It's more vigorous for me than Iris reticulata, possibly because it flowers so early. I have relatively mild winters (it never snows but we do reach freezing a couple of times) so maybe there are more days of growth after flowering compared to cooler climates?
Could any breeders tell me if it would be possible to cross Iris vartanii with I. reticulata? Has anyone tried? I'd have to save the pollen from both as they flower at different times (I assume store it in the fridge or freezer). If I could get Iris reticulata to flower earlier, maybe I'd have more success with it?
These are some Iris vartanii bulbs on 1cm grid. Pretty good for pot grown I think.