Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: ashley on February 03, 2018, 11:10:23 AM
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Flowering today:
Confirmation still going after almost 2 months
Riah Shan 'Nr. 1'
Sirena
Tsingtau almost finished
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Early flowers Ashley. I like the Confirmation. There are not so many suppliers now. I visited a Pleione grower on Thursday. He no longer exhibits but sometimes sells a few spares to friends but only on a small scale.
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I really like tsingtau, never could find a supplier for that one though
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No growers near me unfortunately Ian, so I have to rely on photos & mail order.
This 'Confirmation' came as straight praecox but is obviously a hybrid with maculata. Unfortunately the supplier couldn't give any more information but is now advertising x lagenaria ;) ;D
I like Tsingtau too Julien; it's elegant but the flowers don't last very long. Have you asked Ian Butterfield, or Maren?
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A very long time ago I promised to make all the issues of The Pleione Review magazine available online. With help, I have now at last managed to do this and you can find all the issues now as pdf files to read or download from my website at http://www.pleione.info/pleione-review.html (http://www.pleione.info/pleione-review.html)
Happy reading!
Paul
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Interesting Paul, I was precisely reading the ones previously available on your site last week and wondering if the older editions would be :)
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As I mentionned somewhere else, it would be nice if something similar would start again.
Forums and online groups are nice, but they don't come with a table of contents, and with time everything get lost in the flow of newer posts (I even have a hard time finding back my own old posts sometimes)
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Julien, most find that the search facility for the forum members is pretty good! :)
Also online search engines are also quite effective at searching SRGC - trust me - things are much worse elsewhere! ;D
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I agree, Maggi, though I've been guilty in the past of relying on others to point to articles. Searching the forum often retrieves countless treasures.... if I spent the time to read everything, nothing would get done at home.
By the way, Ashley, I really find your 'Sirena' quite stunning! You folks in the EU, and Britain have a much broader selection of Pleiones available for purchase!
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I agree Maggi, but that's not exactly what I meant, quite hard to explain...
Basically, search functions are quite good when you know exactly what you're searching for, or have the right keywords, but it's not the same as looking at an index, find a title that might be pertinent even if it's a little off topic and go there.
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Ah yes, I see what you mean, Julien.
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Dear Hardy Orchid Growers,
We are doing research on bulbous plant viruses, mainly potyviruses and cucumber mosaic virus. I'd like to get in touch with hardy orchid growers Europe-wide who might have suspicious plants, both winter green and summer green species are interesting for us (including Pleione). I know, that most of you are working hard to keep your precious collection free of such diseases, discarding the plants as soon as you have suspicion. Next time if any of you see a suspicious plant please do not throw it away, but separate it from the rest and contact me by PM with a picture, because it can be interesting for our academic research.
For virus symptoms there is a collection of demonstrative pictures on the website of Paul Cumbleton http://www.pleione.info/pests--diseases.html (http://www.pleione.info/pests--diseases.html)
We need intact plants, because we will carry out several tests (including Transmission Electron Microscopy, PCR, inoculation of virology test plants) during the upcoming months. Samples are welcome whole year round, when there is no risk of frost, as freezing and thawing of plant material is bad for virus isolation. Samples will be planted at the virology glasshouse of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences. We keep all our sources confidential!
With Best Regards,
Janos
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Hi, I'm new to pleiones, I've read cultivation notes but I still have questions. My pleiones have overwintered in the garden (protected from frost) but I've been wondering - do they need to be brought into a warmer house for bud development? Or simply to admire them when in flower?
I also have Confirmation, till now it has been kept with spring flowering pleiones, but it has leaves already - does it need to be kept warmer now?
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Welcome, Ffion - some very experienced pleione growers around - sure you will get some good advice!
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Hi Ffion,
Your profile says ‘British’…. I doubt if one cultivation regime suits all the British microclimates!
Here in Yorkshire, my pleiones grow outdoors until leaf fall, and then indoors (unheated) until the risk of frost has passed. The overwintering pseudobulbs can survive quite serious cold. (I’ve only had big losses during a prolonged episode of minus 10.) But they seem to prefer being dryer than staying out doors would permit. (Storing them ‘dry’ also reduces mollusc problems.) The young new growth is not frost hardy.
By contrast: I know one grower had success keeping them in the bathroom all year round!
I have no experience with Confirmation.
Tim DH
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Hi Ffion
I also overwinter mine in the garden. Those from the greenhouse are dried a bit, packed in plastic bags, placed in a polystyrene box in a hole in the vegetable garden, covered with leaves and fir, and finally with a big piece of plastic. They have survived this treatment the last 7 years with down to minus 17 degrees C. I repot them in the greenhouse early in April. I also keep some in the garden, the beds are covered with leaves, fir and plastic in November. I take away the cover in early April and they usually flower in May. No loses yet to freezing, but the slugs are hungry and my compost was too dense for forrestii and yunnanensis.
I also have no experience with Confirmation.
Anders
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Thank you for the responses and the pics, very informative :)
I live in South Wales and by the sea. The climate here is fairly mild, there were only a few nights with temperatures below zero this winter, and minus 1 or minus 2 would be the lowest. So the pleiones spent the whole winter in the garden, under the roof, though I took them in for those few freezing nights.
My bulbs have tiny buds coming through but it's still quite cold. I understand from your posts that new growth isn't frost hardy, but will the flowers develop when it's just above zero, or do they need some warmth?
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Most species and hybrids will need some warmth, but I have had forrestii flowers in March in the vegetable tray in the fridge (not recommended), so the early species may flower already at 5 degrees.
Anders
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Hi Ffion,
The photo below is my pot of P. 'Confirmation' taken today.
It currently resides on the kitchen windowsill and has done since the flowers started to show in the Autumn. The kitchen window faces East.
It will transfer to the greenhouse when the chance of frost has gone and will then reside outdoors for the summer in dappled shade returning to the greenhouse as the leaves start to turn yellow and then back to the kitchen windowsill.
Hope this helps.
It is in serious need of repotting into a larger pan which I will do (very carefully) very soon. I have left it a bit late.
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Hello Ffion, I usually keep Confirmation indoors along with maculata all year round.
Other hybrids are kept dry in an unheated room during winter and remain so untill they flower, I would be carefull about moving your plants indoors to give them more warmth as each time I have raised the temperature during the bud's growth I've had issues with aborting flowers
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I think Julien is right expressing concerns about raising the temperature. Also the colour in some cultivars seems to be affected by this treatment. In particular yellows seem to be improved by slower/cooler development.
Tim DH
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Whilst I was checking my stored (paper bags in a cool room), Pleiones earlier in the week to my surprise I discovered one of my P. x barbarae was about to burst into flower and others weren't far behind so had to pot them up. This pan is now on a cool windowsill in the house. Some of the other stored ones are starting into growth but nothing like this.
Something to brighten these cold wintry days.
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Quite surprising Graham.
I grow 3 different x barbarae clones and all 3 of them are amongst the last to flower in Spring.
Bulk of my collection flowers in March and April - the 3 above only start flowering well into May... ???
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Hi Luc,
x barbarae is usually flowering in May for me also. I really don't know what has happened here. P. forrestii is usually my first to flower followed by grandiflora both in late March.
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I bought this a few years ago on ebay as Pln. grandiflora “red-spotted lip”. It is clearly a Winter-flowering hybrid (is it Wharfdale?).
Does anyone have an image of “Pln. grandiflora red-spotted lip”?
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4795/39831219555_bedeeef908_o_d.jpg)
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Yes it looks like Wharfedale (unusually late?). Lovely photo.
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Looks like a Wharfedale to me as well. Is it really really vigorous and making huge bulbs?
You
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Thanks Ashley and Steve.
I bought it as a small FS-2 in 2015. The flower opened just after New Year and persisted well into February. I’ve not had it long enough to comment on adult bulb size but it does seem quite vigorous.
Does anyone have a photograph of Pln. grandiflora “Red-spotted lip”?
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Ive inherited a couple of pleiones from my brother who lost the labels, I am trying to identify this one which I think might be Pleione Alishan Mt Fuji. Can anyone confirm this?
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Alishan allright, but not 'Mt Fuji', it's 'Merlin' (white tips to both petals and sepals, while Mt Fuji has white tips to the sepals only), and, sorry to tell, most likely viral :(
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Thanks Julian- how can you tell about the virus? I never even imagined there were pleione viruses, how are they spread? Aphids?
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Irregular color blotches on the petals and sepals are an indication and should be considered as suspicious.
the Vectors are multiples, it can be aphids, mites, but also direct contact with an infected plant (leaves rubbing...), water (several pots stayig in the same tray, or droplets projected while watering...), and of course, the most common vectors are growers and their tools...
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Some Pleione humilis forms in flower here now.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4799/39831093985_7a9c0b1109_o_d.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4782/40683247722_febed5fb6b_o_d.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4782/40683248822_d9712fde96_o_d.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4797/40683248642_08f8d14ffa_o_d.jpg)
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The Pleione saison is finally starting here with me. Funny that a number of plants open the race which came to me only this winter. My older bulbs are all still in bud.
Sifaka 'Peter Clarke' is a quality flower and a tad more yellow to my eye than in the picture.
The others: Pln. Marco Polo, Ueli Wackernagel 'Regal' and bulbocodioides 'Kunming King'
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The 1st one is really nice Steve, not sure it's a pure humilis though as I find the yeloow quite odd for that species.
Would you considere have one set seed?
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My own first hybrids
Pleione Hayana (yunnanensis x maculata) and Pleione Hong (aurita x maculata) ,flowered in last December. I wish they had a longer stalk.
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Very interesting to see the photos of the parents and hybrid together.
Pleasing results!
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Very nice Vigor, I especially like Pln Hong, congratulations.
Did you use a particular clone of maculata? I tried this cross several times without success.
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Very nice Vigor, I especially like Plan Hong, congratulations.
Did you use a particular clone of maculata? I tried this cross several times without success.
I got my success at the first time of crossing maculata with aurita and yunnanensis. These two crosses resulted very few seeds but fortunately,the seedlings grew vigorously after germination.
It’s known that there is difficulty of crossing maculata with other species, however, I also obtained seedlings of pleionoides x maculata, chunii x maculata, barbarae x maculata , and maculata x saxicola, all at the first time of crossing. It is possible that I used a particular clone, but my clone is nothing special from its appearance.
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My own first hybrids
Pleione Hayana (yunnanensis x maculata) and Pleione Hong (aurita x maculata) ,flowered in last December. I wish they had a longer stalk.
It is great to see the parents and the "child" pictured together - helps my understanding for sure.
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Hi Wei,
congratulation for your success with both Hong and Hayana. They are nice addition to the group of winter flowering ones. I have done reverse crossing of Hong (maculata as seed parent) second year out of flask, so I'm interested in differences ;)
Here are my news of this winter:
P. Viki Tybl (forrestii x preacox)
P. Danuše (humilis x Confirmation)
Karel
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The 1st one is really nice Steve, not sure it's a pure humilis though as I find the yeloow quite odd for that species.
Would you considere have one set seed?
Sorry Julien, I’ve just seen your post. I think this humilis clone falls within the variability of the species. Sadly the flowers have now gone over so no seed capsule this year.
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Well, too bad... will be for another time ;)
I'm trying to find seeds from the species to try to build healthy stock (my logic being that if a seedpod is contaminated, then there would need to test only a few plants from the batch to know that the whole batch should go to the trash)
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Pleione forrestii -“normal” and semi-alba forms. Later flowering this year due to the cold Spring (quite a few aborted their flower buds as did my albiflora).
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/894/26248425587_cccd78f0ca_o_d.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/882/27246772118_97cfa75f58_o_d.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/894/26248425477_5b0a4d6da1_o_d.jpg)
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Lovely forrestii Steve; mine are still a week or two off opening.
Eiger 'Pinchbeck Diamond' and an unnamed clone of Eiger with much larger flowers but otherwise rather similar.
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Nice pictures Steve
Are any of your forrestii having flat pseudobulbs rather than the usual conical ones?
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Thanks Julien.
All of my forrestii have conical pseudobulbs.
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Some goodies in flower here :
Pleione askia 'Goldfinch'
Pleione Muriel
Good old Pl. rakata 'Shot Silk'
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Pleione Red Colobus
Old faithful Pl. shantung 'Ducat'
Pl. Ueli Wackernagel 'Pearl'
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Two pots :
Pleione Glacier Peak
&
Pleione Ueli Wackernagel 'Pearl'
I truly admire the Pleione growers that manage to grow a potful in such a way that the flowers more or less look in the same direction. ::)
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I have been experimenting fot the last couple of years, trying to get the flowers to face the same way. Unidirectional light seems to be the trick, but the challenge is to get it right so they face the same way but don't lean. Under the bench, right at the edge, in my main greenhouse seems to be working, and increases the height which judges seem to like, though I don't. It is too dark under the bench in my pleione greenhouse and they wind up leaning at 45 degrees. If all else fails then very carefully rearranging the bulbs works wonders, but judging from the looks on people's faces when I mentioned this at the AGS show in Chesterfield on Saturday it is frowned upon. Funny really as I have always been told that there is a difference between growing and showing and on varieties with very little root at this stage it seemed a logical idea. I remember reading about someone who grew them in shallow trays then placed them to perfection a few days before the show, but that was in Australia. Perhaps there are different rules over here. Oh well, we all learn. Before anyone thinks I am moaning I have now been to two AGS shows and am thoroughly enjoying it, if only because it allows me to marvel at Barry Tattershall's orchids. The pleione are now coming on as well. (Sorry, this ended up miles away from where it started!)
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I've known pleione growers who place their flowers/bulbs in a pot just before a show to get a neat arrangement. Can't say I was aware of any disgrace in that! Perhaps the open sharing of such tips is what is frowned upon?!!
The lengths many exhibitors go to to prepare their plants for show is mind boggling in many cases - but most of it is a question of dedication and effort and not in any way "unsporting"
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Thanks Maggie, maybe I misinterpreted the expressions. Wouldn't be the first time!
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Arranging them in the pot just before a show is pretty standard practice, and not just with Pleione. For example Iris reticulata types are often done like this to get pleasing spacing and to pick flowers all at the same stage. I think showing is as much about art as it is about growing. I agree with you Maggi, techniques used for showing plants should be much more widely shared. I haven't done enough showing myself to oblige, but I wonder if some of the frequent showers might be persuaded to share their tips? An article in the journal perhaps? I'm sure this would be of real help to those who have perhaps only just started showing or even been put off showing as they feel they could never match the well-displayed plants they see regularly on the show benches.
Paul
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We've got some of that - there's cyril's article -
http://files.srgc.net/journals/GrowingforShow_CyrilLafong.pdf (http://files.srgc.net/journals/GrowingforShow_CyrilLafong.pdf)
....and a search of the Journal Index revels some older articles too. http://files.srgc.net/journals/RockGardenIndex.pdf (http://files.srgc.net/journals/RockGardenIndex.pdf)
And then there is this thread- with links to a couple of pieces I put together in the past to help beginners at the Aberdeen show!
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10808.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=10808.0)
Exhibitors wishing to share their tips are welcome to start posting again in that thread.
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I've been lucky, the new Pleione Nyiarongo I bought to replace the pale clone that I lost, turned out to be similarly pale (in contrast with the really candy pink clones we usually see)
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Had some problems with P. grandiflora over the past couple of years but today things are looking up and I hope they will continue that way so I can get back to a potful instead of a single flowering.
[attachimg=1]
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Hi Guys,
A late start to the pleione year for me. A solitary flower of P. Edgecombe ‘Burnished Gold’. Not quite its usual colour, but I’m VERY pleased to see it.. This is one of of the cultivars which suffered from the unwelcome attention of a rodent. The attack was sadly rather prolonged as my attention at the time was focussed on a spot of unexpected surgery, to remove a portion of the digestive system! By the time I was up and about again, the level destruction was heart breaking.
On reflection I think said beast was more interested in seeking out the odd worm at the bottom of the pots, rather than primarily chewing off the flower buds. It certainly had no interest in the bulbs themselves, which were discarded in mixed piles. Without flower buds, it would have taken at least two years of growing them on, individually, to re-establish which cultivar each bulb was. I don’t have that sort of space.
Tim DH
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I'm sure we can all agree that concentrating on your own health is more important than that of your plants in such circumstances, Tim!
I hope you are making great progress yourself- and in rehabilitating your plants!
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Sorry to hear of your health issues Tim.
Nice grandiflora Graham!
I have had some grandiflora types in flower over the last couple of weeks including two pink-lipped forms, the typical form, a yellow-flowered form and the yellow-lipped form.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/876/40737677665_c468e341a1_o_d.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/843/41629710811_505b699320_o_d.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/880/27760474518_92902ab128_o_d.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/927/40918747094_594b42ddba_o_d.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/823/40918752904_7cafd82fc8_o_d.jpg)
......and Pleione x confusa:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/853/41629552131_db0eb870f5_o_d.jpg)
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Thanks Steve,
It is a little better in real life than in the photo but not as good as your yellow lip. You have some excellent variations - not just the grandifloras either.
You asked a little while ago if anyone had a photo of grandiflora 'red lip'. I got mine from David at Koolplants and think he should have a photo. Sadly the bulb did not make it to flowering size.
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I bought the first Pleione as P. forrestii but it isn,t.
[attachimg=1]
The second Pleione is an un-named one from the local garden centre.
[attachimg=2]
Most of these are the same variety but I don,t know which. They usually have two flower stems.
[attachimg=3]
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Pleione x taliensis
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Steve,
Wonderful grandifloras! A good yellow grandiflora like that is something I’ve been looking for for some time - can I ask where you got it?
Alex
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Thanks Alex!
The Yellow grandiflora came from Rainer Kretz.
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Thanks very much, Steve. I actually did have that from him but it turned out to be virused 🤬
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Thanks very much, Steve. I actually did have that from him but it turned out to be virused 🤬
No signs of virus in the flowers (there is a single growth with two flowers). I’ll check the leaf when in growth.
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In mine, the bud sheath looked suspicious and then the leaf had a classic mosaic pattern - a great shame.
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A pan of P. x barbarae. Some different clones in there.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
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Hi Maggi,
Thanks for your kind words… Most of the collection was untouched by Mr Rat.. But under such circumstances one does rather focus on the losses... Here are a few happier pans:
P. Follifoot ‘Princess Tiger’ One of Dad’s favourites, but to my mind an untidy flowerer. He was 91 last week.
P. Vesuvius ‘Ember’ Less floriferous, but bigger flowers, better placed and clean colours.
P. formosana ‘H8.1’ Don’t recall seeing many formosanas on here… This one is a cross between two whites.
P. formosana ‘Claire’
P. Ueli Wackernagel H169.1 Possibly the best looking pan yesterday. Just on account of the flower size.
Tim DH
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Well, I could be commenting on the lovely pleiones - but I prefer to concentrate on asking you to pass on my very best wishes to your Father - congratulations on reaching a great age - long may he reign!
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Four more from yesterday:
P. Shantung ‘Ducat’ Always does well for me.
P. Harlequin ‘Clown’ I like the white tipped petals on this one
P. Marco Polo ‘168.3’ I do like well held flowers. You might notice the chitting spuds behind… I really should be planting those, not messing about with photos!
P. Stromboli ‘Il Duce’ The darkest flower out at the moment. It's stems seem shorter than usual this year.
Apart from medical/health stuff which always jumps to the top of the queue… gardening also has to take its place behind family…. I got married five weeks ago……..
Must fix the lawn mower next.
Tim DH
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Tim!! Really - you are a tease - dripping out the good news - about your Father's birthday and now about your wedding!
:o :o :o :o :o
Huge congratulations to you and your spouse! Live long and prosper!!
[attachimg=1] [attachimg=2]
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Many congratulations to all three of you Tim.
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Sorry to bring up the V-topic again. Closer examination of the last approximately 15 pictures of Pleiones (not the white/yellow ones) show some degree of color breaks and uneven coloration for many of them. The signs vary from very blotched in some of Grahams’ x Barbarae to no visible signs in Lucs’ Red Colobus. Pretty much the same variation in my greenhouse. Do we think most of them are virused? Has anyone tried the Agdia test kit for orchid viruses?
Anders
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I was thinking the same thing Anders.
I grow a wide range of “forms” of x barbarae -many are similar to Graham’s plants. I have separated these from my main collection as I am convinced that they are virus-infected. These plants grow very well producing large pseudobulbs and usually multiple growths. The leaves do not exhibit obvious mosaics and the flowers are not deformed. That said there are obvious colour breaks in the flowers. The colour breaks are of two obvious forms -in one the colour breaks are mirrored between sibling pseudobulbs descended from the same vegetative parent. Perhaps this is constitutional reflecting the identical genetic inheritance. However, there are other colour breaks which vary between genetically identical pseudobulbs -even when the pseudobulbs share the same pot and growing conditions. I believe that this is a consequence of virus.
We always assume that viral infection of a plant will cause constitutional weakness and/or malformation (including colour breaks without physical deformity) but this is not necessarily so. I fear that virus is much more prevalent in pleiones than we dare to believe. I also think that either x barbarae is very susceptible to virus or, infection is already prevalent in wild populations and may contribute to the variable appearance of this “taxon”.
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Has anyone tried the Agdia test kit for orchid viruses?
An intereresting question Anders. Do they offer kits for viruses affecting pleiones? On the website I could find only cymbidium mosaic & odontoglossum ringspot tests but maybe missed something.
Running ELISAs in the garden shed would be the next challenge ;) ;D
A couple of coronaria hybrids:
Kyoto
P. pleionoides x coronaria
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Color breaks are not always viral, what is characteristic of virus is uneven blotches. (watermark type).
Again flashkit for orchid does not detect PFBV but only CyMV and ORSV. One test which may detect PFBV is the potyvirus group but not comfirmed for now. I will try it this year
Some plants resist more than others, they still remain a resoervoir and innoculum source for the other plants in collection (think about flamed tulips, which carry potyvirus without loosing vitality, but plant them among regular tulips, and the result will not eb pretty in the following years)
I don't think x barbarae is highly virosed in the wild, however in collection, the prevalence is high, especially since many are old clones which are in collection since decades, often mixed up with many others. (and let's not forget that many suppliers have contaminated their stocks by importing virosed plants from a dutch source)
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Thanks for the comments. The radical thing to do would be to get rid of all of them to avoid contamination other genera. But I couldn't do that so I I think I will move them to a distant corner of the garden far away from other orchids.
Anders
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I have no clue whether PFBV can actually contaminate other genera, it seems rater specific to pleiones, however pleiones can be contaminated by other virus (one of mine caught cucumber mozaic, it was in the same greenhouse as the cucumbers, started to show typical mozaic pattern afterwards and tested positive for it).
So far, we have no cure for virus, so the only solution really is to destroy infected plants, but it might not prevent spreading alltogether, since plants can remain asymptomatic (but still contagious) during years before it actually starts to show after the plant has been stressed.
We all noticed in recent years an alarming increase of viral signs in collection, even on newly aquired plants from reputable growers, which suggest that the problem is far to be solved (espeically since some people, grower and seller alike, just decide to "believe" -wishfull thinking- that virus signs are not viral but the result of cultivation conditions and keep on selling/swapping/offering obviously contaminated plants, the latest I saw were at EOCCE show last march, but I also saw pictures of the Dresden show which were far to be "clean" ::) )
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I bought this a few years ago on ebay as Pln. grandiflora “red-spotted lip”. It is clearly a Winter-flowering hybrid (is it Wharfdale?).
Does anyone have an image of “Pln. grandiflora red-spotted lip”?
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4795/39831219555_bedeeef908_o_d.jpg)
In 2015 I also bought on eBay several 3FS and 2FS bulbs of what the seller /from Germany/ called " pleione grandiflora "red-spotted lip". Here are the photos of what came out from what I bought. One flower has white petals and raspberry spots on the lip. At least this one looks like what I expected to see. But the other two have pale lilac petals and brownish spots on the lip. Can anybody identify them? Three years ago I was so naive to rely upon what the seller stated and kept all the bulbs in one pot. Now I have around 100 bulbs and bulbills. It's a challenge to pot each one in a personal pot, but I will do it if necessary.
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Pleione x taliensis - a different clone from the one previously shown.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
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Pleione x taliensis - a different clone from the one previously shown.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Graham, your plants looks more like x barbarae
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Graham, your plants looks more like x barbarae
Hi Vigor, I had expected someone to say it looks virused but hadn't expected this. What makes you think it is x barbarae and not x taliensis please.
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Hi Vigor, I had expected someone to say it looks virused but hadn't expected this. What makes you think it is x barbarae and not x taliensis please.
your Reply #62 shows x taliensis, you can go to Paul Cumbleton's website ( http://www.pleione.info (http://www.pleione.info)) to see the difference. x barbarae is from natural hybridizaion and very variable. Many photos of different clones of x barbarae are shown at Paul Cumbleton's website.
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Graham,Vigor
thank you! I have already moved them to different pots.
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your Reply #62 shows x taliensis, you can go to Paul Cumbleton's website ( http://www.pleione.info (http://www.pleione.info)) to see the difference. x barbarae is from natural hybridizaion and very variable. Many photos of different clones of x barbarae are shown at Paul Cumbleton's website.
Thanks Vigor, I see what you mean. It seems that x taliensis is less variable than x barbarae.
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My very first time growing this species .
Fingers crossed for some really nice flowers sometime soon.
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It seems that the Pleione viruses have spread to many of my Bletilla - I have attached a few photos of suspected infections. Or my Bletillas may have had virus all along, and I just noticed it this year when I had a closer look at the leaves. It seems to be mainly the purchased clones, whereas most of my seedlings seem to be clean. I think that I will now deport all the Bletillas with suspected infection to the far end of the garden where they can keep company with the virused pleiones. The next years, I will collect seeds from them, sow very thinly on the agar to avoid cross-contamination of the protocorms and seedlings, and then hope to obtain non-viruses seedlings. Generally, I think we should try to avoid repeated division of Bletilla in the garden as they seem to pick up viruses quite easily. And they are among the easiest orchids to grow from seeds on sterile agar.
Anders
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Just out of curiousity, were those bletilla clones from Phytesia? I have potyvirus issues with almost all the plants I purshased from them in the last 5 years...
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Hi Julien
No, my virused Bletillas come from different sources. B. formosane is from Albiflora, B. Soryu is from Laneside Hardy Orchids (don't know where Jeff Hutchins got it from), B. Brigantes is a clone that has been passed on in Danish gardens for more than a decade, and a plain striata was bought as very dry bulbs some 20 years ago. I think that either one of them had virus and passed it on to the others or they picked it up from one of my Pleiones.
Anders
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Well, we'll never know for sure, it is possible that many bletillas sold since decades were carrying dormant viruses which just started to show those last years because the plants are weakened by the stress caused by the erratic climate, it should also be noted that over here we also observe an increase of viral activity in many crops (not only ornemental), which would support that theory, maximized by the fact that the same climatic variations also favorize aphids which are known vectors.
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Can viruses be passed on from orchid seed? In most plants the seed is clean even if the plant is infected but I don't know about orchids.
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Hi Jan
I don't know if this has been tested specifically for orchid viruses and viroids, but generally it will depend on the virus type and to some degree on the environmental conditions and genetics of the host plant. Some types of viruses are seed-transmitted. Chemical disinfection can reduce the risk that the viruses will enter the developing embryo inside the seeds. My guess would be that mature orchid seeds disinfected with hypochlorite solution will have a very low risk of infection, whereas the risk will be much higher by using the green pod methods where only the outside of the seed pod is sterilised. Symbiotic germination with seeds that are not disinfected would probably have a higher infection risk than germination of hypochlorite treated seeds. I have had suspected virus infection in a couple of sterile flasks. The seedling leaved had white streaks on several seedlings in each flask. It may not have been viral infection, but I threw all of them in the bin to be on the safe side.
Anders
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At the difference of some viruses which sometimes infect seeds from the outside via virions coming by the dehiscent pod's wall, members of the potyvirus familly (to which the PFBV infecting pleiones is part) infect seeds at the cellular level during the seeds development, so unfortunately, if the pod parent was viral, it's likely most of the embryo will be as well, and disinfection is not likely to change the outcome in this case....
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As it's cucumber time in the Pleione world ;D maybe this is of interest for some.
I used to pot my bulbils among the mature pseudobulbs and the result of the number of bulbils that survived was rather poor. This year, I decided to give them a different (separate) treatment and I'm very happy with the results so far. Only one grex didn't grow.
The biggest bulbils so far measure up to almost 10 mm now, which to me, is surprisingly big.
They are planted in a far less coarse mix containing finely chopped moss, very finely seaved bark, some leafmold and a small percentage of J.I. compost. I never let them dry out in the heat and drought we had over the laste couple of months. They seemed to have liked that :D
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Has someone received Ian Butterfield's catalogue this year?
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Julien - Maren Talbot gave the link to Ian Butterfield's 2017-2018 catalogue in late September 2017 - so you may be a little early in looking for it.
I expect it will be linked from Maren's website when it is available, as usual .... http://www.heritageorchids.co.uk/ (http://www.heritageorchids.co.uk/)
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First time I’ve grown these as I grew up in a very different clim. I’ve always liked orchids. Hopefully
I get these to re bloom next year, with some yellows too.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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First time I’ve grown these as I grew up in a very different clim. I’ve always liked orchids. Hopefully
I get these to re bloom next year, with some yellows too.
They're lovely aren't they Michael ! Looking quite good !
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Has someone received Ian Butterfield's catalogue this year?
I'm also somewhat worried Julien ! I think we got it earlier than this in the past few years. ???
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Pleione x Confirmation
A full pan of flowers this year. It started flowering several weeks ago in full leaf so some of the blooms are going over now.
[attachimg=1]
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Wow! :D Very nice.
I had about 14 of them 3 years ago and lost all but one of them to a dodgy repotting mix. It is recovering in pure rockwool, and will hopefully flower next season... Such a nice flower. Well done for getting such a massive pot of them!
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Julien - Maren Talbot gave the link to Ian Butterfield's 2017-2018 catalogue in late September 2017 - so you may be a little early in looking for it.
I expect it will be linked from Maren's website when it is available, as usual .... http://www.heritageorchids.co.uk/ (http://www.heritageorchids.co.uk/)
There will be no new Butterfield’s Pleiones catalogue published this year. Last year's is still currently available on the Heritage Orchids website for reference if you do not have a copy.
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Question re the spring hybrids - when can they be lifted? I prefer to lift mine and I'm wondering when the roots die - is it as the leaves fall or is it later? I'm trying to make as much space in the greenhouse so lifting earlier will help me.
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Wow! :D Very nice.
I had about 14 of them 3 years ago and lost all but one of them to a dodgy repotting mix. It is recovering in pure rockwool, and will hopefully flower next season... Such a nice flower. Well done for getting such a massive pot of them!
Do you mean it's on a brick of rockwool or like in shredded rockwool in a pot?
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I grow a number of orchids in grodan cubes, after a discussion on paphiopedilums. It has worked really well in saving my paphs, they have grown better than ever, and also saved my last surviving P. Confirmation:
[attach=1]
I potted many of my Pleiones with a mix with really weird (sphagnum)moss, bought in a garden centre and of a well known garden sundries brand. The mix proved to never dry out and many plants' roots burned off when about 3mm long. A number of varieties died altogether, amongst which many of new ones I bought off Tim Harberd, but the ones I potted in grodan cubes recovered. I am now trying other species to see if it would take away the variability of the potting medium. I have found it a real pain to find suitable bark but especially moss. I now buy it of a florist, but it is what I call ' forest moss'', with grass, oak leaves, bilberries and all sorts of species of moss... Not very sustainably sourced I don't think but for now the best I can find. So if rockwool works, I will swap the lot gradually over...
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Hi Bart,
Sorry to hear about your problems with rootburn. When I first started keeping pleiones the received wisdom was that this ailment was due to the compost not being free draining enough. I tried all sorts of mixes, with mixed results and came to the conclusion that the ‘free draining’ hypothesis was not very convincing. So one year I tried a few spare bulbs in ‘Crocus Glasses’ (They are like hyacinth glasses, but much smaller!) All the bulbs produced perfectly healthy roots into the tap water provided, despite being completely submerged.
I’ve now come to the conclusion that the problem is caused by an aggressive fungus (or class of fungi) which is present in some, but not all, composts. That would help to explain why my more exotic ‘free draining’ mixes, which contained ingredients from half a dozen sources, were apparently more prone to the problem. Each additional ingredient increased the chance of introducing the causative organism!!
These days I make up two simple mixes, with ingredients from different sources, and pot up half of the collection into each. (I’ve yet to be struck in any year, with the ailment in both mixes.)
I think its also worth noting that with me, among the hybrids, those with bulbocodiodes in their parentage seem to be more susceptible to the problem.
I hope that’s helpful.
Tim DH
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I'm starting to think that some plants are contaminated from the start and that fungus are just waiting the right conditions to strike...
For instance, I can't seem to keep any of the plants from some suppliers, they arrive as perfectly healthy looking pseudobulbs (if not unusually big), grow well with nice roots, and then in the middle of summer the pseudobulb just starts to rot from the inside in a matter of days (the inside looks mushy, 1st time it happened I thought it had been eaten by worms since I found fungus gnats in it), long before the time it would be depleted. I really rarely manage to save the shoots at that point (even if I do, they don't manage to mature good sized pseudobulbs so end up really set back).
The mix used doesnt seem to matter, I've had the same occuring with bark, moss, kanuma, akadama...
The only thing I haven't tried is to bleach the bulbs before planting, which I will do this year.
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Hi Julien,
The dis-order you mention is unknown to me, but I’m familiar with the ‘root burn’ Bart described.
I think you are right to be wary about bringing in new stock. This isn’t just a danger with Pleiones. I’ve encountered problems with Peonies, Snowdrops, Daffodils, Raspberries and Blackcurrants. You start with a healthy collection, which gives much pleasure, so you decide to add a few more cultivars and something unwelcome arrives with the newbies.
Some time last millennium my father experimented with some chemicals which were not available to amateur growers. At the time I did wonder whether these chemicals cured problems, or just masked them. If the latter is true, it is easy to see how commercially sourced stock could be a Trojan Horse!
For the last 15 years the only thing I’ve used on my Pleiones is Neem Oil.
Tim DH
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Confirmation
[attachimg=1]
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And every good wish to you, too, Ashley !
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Thank you Maggi :-*
Wharfedale Pine Warbler should begin in the next few days.
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All of my Pleione praecox types were late to flower this year with flowers opening in early-mid December and some even persisting into the New Year (var. Reichenbachiana).
Pleione praecox Burmese form
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4881/45879434134_128afebe38_o_d.jpg)
Pleione praecox Chinese form
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4807/45879434624_fd00ca9f0e_o_d.jpg)
Pleione praecox Himalayan form
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7869/45879434804_69ece981e2_o_d.jpg)
Pleione praecox var. Reichenbachiana
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4843/45879434944_489e204823_o_d.jpg)
Pleione “vietnamensis”
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7859/45879433924_146055a7d6_o_d.jpg)
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my autumn/winter flower in 2018
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hybrids。。。
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Wow amazing plants, pots and pics !!!
I love automn flowering Pleione. Did you keep them cold ?
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Hello Vigor, which praecox form is this?
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Hello Vigor, which praecox form is this?
these plants are from west Yunnan and very variable. Even in one wild population you can see different froms.