Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => NARCISSUS => Topic started by: Gerdk on October 01, 2016, 01:37:57 PM
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Here are some daffodils which are just flowering after first watering at the beginning of September
1. N. elegans (malacitanus) - from the Spanish mainland
2. N. miniatus (obsoletus)
3. + 4. N. miniatus with 7 petals - please note the changing colour of the corona!
5. N. cavanillesii - a free flowering type
Gerd
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really nice display, the cavanillesii is so delicate.
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Nice Narcissus, Gerd. I like them very much but I don't bring them into growth. The bulb sits in the ground for some years till it dies. What is the secret to grow these jewels successfully?
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Thank you Yann & Sokol,
Concerning to achieve flowers please have a look at my post in this Forum dated december 5th 2011!
Gerd
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Concerning to achieve flowers please have a look at my post in this Forum dated december 5th 2011!
Gerd
This is the link you require to see Gerd's advice : http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=8183.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=8183.0)
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Thank you Meggie and Gerd.
Now I am sure, why I haven't been successful till now.
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Some additional autumn flowering daffodils
1. - 3. Narcissus miniatus (obsoletus)
4. Narcissus x perezlarae = miniatus x cavanillesii
5. Narcissus x alentejanus = serotinus s. str. x cavanillesii
Gerd
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Lovely plants Gerd and very skilfully grown
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Very beautiful Gerd, any comments as to scent on these?
Of all the plants I left behind in Suffolk when I moved it is the autumn daffodils I am most regretting, although I have just taken delivery of a few viridiflorus hybrids from Nijssen Tuin (https://nijssentuin.nl/22-webwinkel-narcissensitenl?p=13) so may have some pictures to share later.
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I also have copies of at Nijssen Tuin. This is Narcissus viridiflora II and V.
Here are pictures of N. viridiflora II. I forgot to photograph the viridiflora V.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
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I suppose these viridiflorus are poeticus selections or crossing with poeticus. Mine flowered all in spring and had much broader leaves than viridiflora.
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Thanks for the compliments Gail and David!
@Gail: Because my olfactory sense is nearly absent I can't comment the smell unfortunately - my wife
told me the scent of miniatus is sweetish but not pleasant. The same comment came when I asked
her about the smell of Narcissus viridiflorus.
Gerd
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I suppose these viridiflorus are poeticus selections or crossing with poeticus. Mine flowered all in spring and had much broader leaves than viridiflora.
Sokol, very handsome plants!
What's about the hardiness of these hybrids? Do you cultivate them without protection?
Gerd
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I have had them outside but protected against severe frost. After seeing the flowers I have planted them completely out without protection but just some weeks ago. I will report next year whether that was a good idea.
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I also have copies of at Nijssen Tuin. This is Narcissus viridiflora II and V.
Here are pictures of N. viridiflora II. I forgot to photograph the viridiflora V.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
What is the parentage of these viridiflorus hybrids?
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Here are some daffodils which are just flowering after first watering at the beginning of September
1. N. elegans (malacitanus) - from the Spanish mainland
2. N. miniatus (obsoletus)
3. + 4. N. miniatus with 7 petals - please note the changing colour of the corona!
5. N. cavanillesii - a free flowering type
Gerd
Rafa now tells me that Narcissus elegans is now properly called N. obsoletus, and what I've been growing as N. obsoletus should be called N. deficiens.
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Rafa now tells me that Narcissus elegans is now properly called N. obsoletus, and what I've been growing as N. obsoletus should be called N. deficiens.
It is so difficult to follow the shifting of names - especially with the serotinus-miniatus-obsoletus complex.
There is an ongoing discussion among botanists which results in communication problems.
I am unable to state how is right or wrong - still love the plants.
Gerd
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Some new ones from today
Narcissus broussonetii and N. miniatus (obsoletus) with unusual coloured petals
Gerd
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yes what a great color
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Thank you, Yann!
Gerd
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The orange petaled miniatus is so attractive, Gerd :P
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Narcissus season has started today, here :D
Narcissus cavanillesii, Morocco, received as N. humilis subsp. mauretanicus. It's my first autumn flowering yellow :)
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Tatsuo,
Thanks for compliments too - I like your N. humilis (cavanillesii) ssp. mauretanicus.
Interestingly it flowers when my plants are long over.
Gerd
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This is Narcissus x perezlarae again -
please note the colour change when flowers are aging!
Gerd
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Narcissus x perezlarae a lovely present from Gerd.
Then two I have called N. serotinus the first from Greece and the second from Turkey. I cannot get my mind around the constant changing of names based on minute variations
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I cannot get my mind around the constant changing of names based on minute variations
Tony, you are not the only one! ;)
Gerd
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The plant I grow as N. obsoletus is a fertile hybrid (2n = 30) and has a tapering flower tube, narrowest where it joins the ovary. I have yet to flower N. serotinus (2n = 10), which has a sstraight flower tube with a bottle-neck where it suddenly narrows a few mm before meeting the ovary. The plant that I received as N. malacitanus, but since reverted to the name elegans, has 2n = 20. The last two are supposedly the parents of the first, before polyploidy turned the infertile hybrid (2n = 15) into a fertile species (2n = 30). The jiggling of the names is to do with precedence, and seemingly an error as to which plant was actually described as obsoletus. At least I managed to get all these names onto the MPI permitted seeds list!
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Mercy! I love these narcissus and I'm so envious of you folks growing them and having the real thing and not just photos to admire!
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I have a question for the experts of you on Narcissus serotinus.
I bought a bulb in November last year in a paper bag. I planted in a pot in the greenhouse. he made no leaves and no flower.
I stopped watering in May and allowed to dry all summer (cook behind the windows). This year I changed to earth and he received his first water storm on 15 September. the bulb was still there, with firm roots start growing.
my question is: is it normal that he spent a full year to rest?
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The plant I grow as N. obsoletus is a fertile hybrid (2n = 30) and has a tapering flower tube, narrowest where it joins the ovary. I have yet to flower N. serotinus (2n = 10), which has a sstraight flower tube with a bottle-neck where it suddenly narrows a few mm before meeting the ovary. The plant that I received as N. malacitanus, but since reverted to the name elegans, has 2n = 20. The last two are supposedly the parents of the first, before polyploidy turned the infertile hybrid (2n = 15) into a fertile species (2n = 30). The jiggling of the names is to do with precedence, and seemingly an error as to which plant was actually described as obsoletus. At least I managed to get all these names onto the MPI permitted seeds list!
I also thought that it was like that but Rafa told me (by MP) that it was already obsolete. He told me that
- Narcissus obsoletus should be the correct name for Narcissus elegans (strong species with multiflore stem, southern spain, northern Africa)
- Narcissus serotinus is Narcissus serotinus ss. It is only found in andalousia, all N. serotinus from various place in mediterranean bassin are the last one (N. deficiens) (stem with only 1 flower, no leaves when flowering size)
- Narcissus deficiens should be the right name for N. miniatus, or "N. serotinus" from Tony, or N. obsoletus from Anthony ! (stem with one or few flowers)
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I have a question for the experts of you on Narcissus serotinus.
I bought a bulb in November last year in a paper bag. I planted in a pot in the greenhouse. he made no leaves and no flower.
I stopped watering in May and allowed to dry all summer (cook behind the windows). This year I changed to earth and he received his first water storm on 15 September. the bulb was still there, with firm roots start growing.
my question is: is it normal that he spent a full year to rest?
When planted very late in November it might be a reaction of the bulb to wait for the next growing season.
Even when bulbs planted and watered at the right time it occurs (although rarely) that they 'sleep' during the time when growth is expected.
I guess your plant will show either leaves or flowers shortly.
Gerd
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I also thought that it was like that but Rafa told me (by MP) that it was already obsolete. He told me that
- Narcissus obsoletus should be the correct name for Narcissus elegans (strong species with multiflore stem, southern spain, northern Africa)
- Narcissus serotinus is Narcissus serotinus ss. It is only found in andalousia, all N. serotinus from various place in mediterranean bassin are the last one (N. deficiens) (stem with only 1 flower, no leaves when flowering size)
- Narcissus deficiens should be the right name for N. miniatus, or "N. serotinus" from Tony, or N. obsoletus from Anthony ! (stem with one or few flowers)
As I said above, the three species are separated by chromosome number, (visible differences aside), but I await to see whether swapping of obsoletus for elegans stands. I have seedlings of serotinus and await to see how it compares with obsoletus (now elegans? - see a previous post of mine), which I find to be a very vigorous plant that multiplies very well vegetatively and produces masses of seed.
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When planted very late in November it might be a reaction of the bulb to wait for the next growing season.
Even when bulbs planted and watered at the right time it occurs (although rarely) that they 'sleep' during the time when growth is expected.
I guess your plant will show either leaves or flowers shortly.
Gerd
Thank you for the information Géré.
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Narcissus miniatus (obsoletus) x N. tazetta
Gerd
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Narcissus miniatus (obsoletus) x N. tazetta
Gerd
What a fascinating hybrid, Gerd :D I think it would have attractive fragrance. Is it your original breed?
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Narcissus broussonetii :)
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Tatsuo, your pots are always kept so neat - you put us to shame! I am enjoying, as always, seeing your lovely collection of plants photographed on your blog page. 8) 8)
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Thank you Maggi. I share only 'well taken' images here ;D ::)
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What a fascinating hybrid, Gerd :D I think it would have attractive fragrance. Is it your original breed?
Thank you Tatsuo. Yes, it has a pleasant fragrance. The hybrid is of wild origin from Israel and a gift
of a generous forum member.
Gerd
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Here is my 'Autumn colors' hybrids and Narcissus papyraceus mixed with 'Inbal'. They started flowering 10/09/16. I'm growing seedlings of Narcissus deficiens and Narcissus obsoletus so I can create my own hybrids. The most fragrant Autumn colors Tazetta is #3.
edit by maggi to rotate pictures.
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They are lovely. I will await your next generation with interest!
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Very nice indeed Brad.
(Maggi, if you get a minute could you please weave your magic on Brad's pictures?)
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The first green Narcissus serotinus hybrids or whatever they are are starting to flower.
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A very attractive hybrid - is it an artificial cross?
Gerd
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What is the parentage of these viridiflorus hybrids?
Mr. Nijssen does not produce itself. All that I understood his explanation is that they may have genes Narcissus poeticus.
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All of your Narcissus are so beautiful!! Especially love all the hybrids. Here are several flowers from my second pot of Narcissus serotinus of Spanish origin (the first pot bloomed in September). These Autumn-bloomers seem to love the climate here. :)
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It is a huge regret to me that we have to rely on a memory of the scent of these beauties - always wishing for a scent button!
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All of your Narcissus are so beautiful!! Especially love all the hybrids. Here are several flowers from my second pot of Narcissus serotinus of Spanish origin (the first pot bloomed in September). These Autumn-bloomers seem to love the climate here. :)
Aloha, David :)
That's amazing N. serotinus can be grown in the tropical island :o Very interesting trial 8)
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This is Narcissus viridiflorus and its hybrid (of wild origin) N. x alleniae (miniatus x viridiflorus)
Gerd
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More narcissus blooming, I'm choosing this one as a parent. It has nice overlapping and smooth tepals with uniform color and a nice sweet scent, perhaps obsoletus parentage:
[attachimg=1]
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First flowers of Narcissus papyraceus in flower
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Narcissus miniatus (obsoletus) x N. tazetta
Gerd
very nice Gerd Bravo
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Thank you Dominque!
(by the way: your Corylus americana is building first catcins)
Gerd
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More narcissus blooming, I'm choosing this one as a parent. It has nice overlapping and smooth tepals with uniform color and a nice sweet scent, perhaps obsoletus parentage:
Hello NarcissusBrad! Hoping your breeding programme succeeds.