Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Alberto on March 01, 2008, 04:12:19 PM

Title: Tropaeolum
Post by: Alberto on March 01, 2008, 04:12:19 PM: Hi all, the pictures is of Tropaeolum brachyceras, I think. I had as T. tricolor that is not of course. Anyone else grow tuberous Tropaeolum? Who knows a source of them. I tried to sow them with no success! what is your experience?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan Band on March 01, 2008, 06:58:40 PM: Hi Alberto,
I have grown Tropaeolum incisum from seed collected by the Archibalds in Chile. It has been about 5 or 6 years since I sowed it and I now have loads of it in about 2 or 3 different shades. I persume it came up easily. I keep it in a polystyrene box, although it is under cover I am sure that isn't nescessary. I will post a pic tomorrow when I have more time.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan Band on March 02, 2008, 10:10:24 AM: Here is the Pic of Tropaeolum incisum
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Gerdk on March 02, 2008, 12:27:48 PM: Alberto,
Here are my germination results of a few Tropaeolum
T. austropurpureum - 20.12.07 - germination 4 from 5
T. beuthii - 15.01.06 germination 4 from 10
T. beuthii - 31.12.06 germination 0 from 10
T. brachyceras - 17.01.07 germination 2 from 10
T. polyphyllum - 15.01.07 germination 1 from 5

I did not give the seeds a special treatment. I had similar results with T. ciliatum and T. speciosum.

Sorry, I cannot give any advices concerning successful cultivation.

Gerd
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Alberto on March 02, 2008, 06:23:17 PM: Susan and Gerd, many thanks. Do you know a source for seeds?

Ciao
Alberto
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Gerdk on March 02, 2008, 06:27:38 PM: Alberto,
AGS - NARGS - SRGC
maybe there are some commercial suppliers in GB (Thompson & Morgan?)

Gerd
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: David Nicholson on March 02, 2008, 07:26:23 PM: Quote from: Alberto on March 02, 2008, 06:23:17 PM
Susan and Gerd, many thanks. Do you know a source for seeds?

Ciao
Alberto

Alberto,

for Tropaolum brachyceras and T. speciosum
http://www.secretseeds.com/acatalog/TUVWXYZ.html
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tony Willis on March 03, 2008, 11:28:28 AM: Quote from: Gerdk on March 02, 2008, 12:27:48 PM
Alberto,
Here are my germination results of a few Tropaeolum
T. austropurpureum - 20.12.07 - germination 4 from 5
T. beuthii - 15.01.06 germination 4 from 10
T. beuthii - 31.12.06 germination 0 from 10
T. brachyceras - 17.01.07 germination 2 from 10
T. polyphyllum - 15.01.07 germination 1 from 5

I did not give the seeds a special treatment. I had similar results with T. ciliatum and T. speciosum.

Sorry, I cannot give any advices concerning successful cultivation.

Gerd

I have three of these as lovely tubers plus azureum all from Watsons seed .They have been growing for years and they all flowered last year. This year not a shoot apart from azureum.Cultivation seems a pig,I have not changed the growing conditions and I can see no reason why they have stayed dormant.Here they are flowering last year. I think the spiders web adds to the hookerianum picture
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on March 03, 2008, 11:58:14 AM: Tony,

They're notorious for skipping years. My brachycerus skipped last season completely, so I am hoping that this year it'll return. A year ago T. tricolor in the ground skipped, and that was a whole clump of it. Not a single shoot. I dug down and checked and the tubers were all there and plenty came up this year, but the whole clump didn't bother last year. No idea why they do it, although someone was mentioning on one of the lists that lack of water at a certain time of year can cause it. I only grow the above two species, so can't comment on any of the others. I have coveted azureum for a while, but seeing your picture of hookerianum I am thinking that I will be coveting that one too. Very nice!!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on March 10, 2008, 09:12:14 PM: I wish they coulg grow as easy as T. majus... They are wonderfull, specially the blue and red ones!!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on March 10, 2008, 09:15:21 PM: Mike, email me with your postal address and I'll send you a Tropaeolum tricolorum in the summer.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on March 10, 2008, 11:12:48 PM: Hi MAggi!

Many thanks i will do it right away. I think i have some seeds that you also might be interested.
;)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on March 20, 2008, 09:44:02 AM: Hi there !

I have been buying seeds of different species, but no germination apart from one T. ciliatum.
In autumn, I bought two tubers of T. tricolorum from Paul Christian, and they grew very well (inside in a cold bedroom) and are full of flowers at the moment. I think this species is not difficult and very beautiful ! By the way, 5 GBP is a reasonable price to my opinion - I'll see if I can take a pic these days.
Ciliatum, brachyceras and pantaphyllum are also available at Paul Christian's (www.rareplants.co.uk), but I have only had T. ciliatum which was neither floriferous nor beautiful, so I left it outside - we'll see if it's still alive (I bet it is...).

Best regards from Munich !

Michael

p.s. Tony, seeing your hookerianum and brachyceras makes me want these species ! So beautiful....in case hookerianum sets seed I'd be very happy about some ! Somehow I suspect the bad results in germination from commercial seeds may be caused by old seeds....
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: SueG on March 20, 2008, 01:08:28 PM: Plant world seeds often have a selection too http://www.plant-world-seeds.com/ (http://www.plant-world-seeds.com/) I got T beuthii from them and got one seedling germinated last year and another one gernminated recently - yet to get a flower but may do this year.
Sue
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Brian Ellis on March 20, 2008, 05:18:25 PM: Mike, if you are interested in Tropaeolum tuberosum 'Ken Aslet' pm me.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 20, 2008, 09:48:16 PM: Tropaeolum tricolor can be rampant but trainable, on a netting fence or similar but T. ciliatum is EVIL!!! It will ramp and crawl underground and over everything it touches and smothers as efficiently as ivy. It seeds everywhere as well. Much worse than T. speciosum in its most vigorous habitats, and without the saving grace of stunning flowers. BE VERY CAREFUL.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Gerdk on March 21, 2008, 10:02:02 AM: Lesley,
Where do you grow these Tropaeolums, inside a greenhouse or in the garden?
My T. speciosum quickly disappeared when planted outside.

Gerd
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on March 21, 2008, 02:15:04 PM: Gerd, when the time is right I will send you enough Trop. speciosum to experiment with.
we find that it grows best when planted in a deep soil, about 0.5m to 0.75 m AWAY from the base of a hedge or tree. If you try to plant it right at the base of the item you wish to have the Trop. climb up, it will fail. I warn you, though, once you have established this beautiful climber, your garden will never be the same again... after a few years you will have Trop. speciosum in places you never knew you had places! :o ::) It is probably the worst weed in our garden.... I pull up about two large sacks full of top growth every year.....it is particularly bad when it covers small leaved rhododendrons which can be defoliated by that quite quickly. :'(
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Gerdk on March 21, 2008, 02:55:04 PM: :o :o :o Thank you Maggi, please do!
I would like to try it. I want to see this diabolic plant rampaging in my garden ;D ;D ;D

Gerd
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Brian Ellis on March 21, 2008, 03:43:00 PM: Gerd it is difficult to establish in a dry East Anglian garden and I managed to kill several. Last year I was told to try it on the North of a shrub and to cover the roots with tile or some similar stone to keep them cool. This I did and it grew and flowered for me for the first time 8) as I type I can see it is still in foliage to a height of 1m 50cm and I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will grow on from there to rampage through my garden. Good luck.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Gerdk on March 21, 2008, 04:11:37 PM: My town is no. 3 in Germany concerning precipitation - more than 1000 mm/year. Also more shade than I would like to have.
So theoretically good conditions for T. speciosum! :)

Gerd
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on March 21, 2008, 04:13:58 PM: Do they still produce as many knives and forks as they used to in Solingen Gerd ? ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on March 21, 2008, 05:58:27 PM: Gerd, Brian, be afraid ! You have been warned! :P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Gerdk on March 21, 2008, 06:31:39 PM: Maggi: A speach of my father was -
Some people don't believe that rain will coming up - until they get wet ;D

Luc: this industry has declined but there are still some factories here which produce cutlery ' Made in Solingen ' or as an archaismen ' Me fecit Solingen '

Gerd
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: johngennard on March 21, 2008, 09:38:18 PM: I have it scrambling over the medium to larger rhodos.without doing any harm but it took a few years to establish.I planted the originals in a north facing peat bed and I now find it far away from the original bed but not rampant as with Maggie.I believe Maggie's climatic conditions are far more to its liking than in the Midlands as is Ireland.In any event the top growth is easily removed.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan on March 22, 2008, 04:11:59 AM: Here it is an absolute weed and if left will smother everything in its path. It grows high into Rhododendrons and at present is covered in seed. The birds seem to like it immensely hence it seems to be widespread here.

Is this what you are really wanting? If so, Gerd and Brian PM me, but as Maggi says you have been warned!

I would actually like to know how to get rid of it as it appears to go very deep into the ground, and you cannot dig it out. Every year it gets worse. Maybe it is coming through from Scotland.

Susan
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan on March 22, 2008, 04:13:47 AM: Sorry thought I had added one with berries and one growing through the rhododendrons.

Susan
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Gerdk on March 22, 2008, 11:18:01 AM: Susan,
Thank you for these stunning pics. Not only the flowers are beautiful - also the fruits.
Too bad, that this plant has such an evil behaviour ! :(

Gerd
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on March 22, 2008, 11:57:17 AM: Susan et al,

So is it an annual plant, without tubers or anything? It is certainly setting a lot of seed, which is why I ask. Looks wonderful, and if I hadn't read your warnings I would have been enquiring about seed myself perhaps. I love the Tropaeolums, even though I only grow a couple of them.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: David Pilling on March 22, 2008, 02:26:41 PM: Points of view differ :) One seed catalogue says...

Quote
Tropaeolum ciliatum
Rarely available is this fine plant from Chile. Tuber forming, it is a very vigorous climber (particularly under glass) and bears all summer yellow, Mimulus-like flowers, each an inch or so across, all delicately and tastefully veined in red.

All the Tropaeolum speciosum seeds I have bought in the past have quickly rotted, this year I've got them from the seed exchange and they seem to be OK.

I found that T. ciliatum germinated on the warm to cold transition at the end of the year. I wonder if T. speciosum does that or if it as the seed packets lead one to believe it's simply a matter of a cold period.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Martin Baxendale on March 22, 2008, 03:22:51 PM: Quote from: David Pilling on March 22, 2008, 02:26:41 PM

I found that T. ciliatum germinated on the warm to cold transition at the end of the year. I wonder if T. speciosum does that or if it as the seed packets lead one to believe it's simply a matter of a cold period.

I've germinated Tropaeolum speciosum seed (from my parents' plants) a couple of times by simply cleaning the seeds of the berry pulp, sowing in high-humus compost and leaving out to freeze in winter. They came up in spring.

My problem in my dry garden is keeping them going until they get big enough to romp away. The seedlings make tiny rhizomes the first year which are very susceptible to drying out. In my parents' equally dry garden, they started with big fat rhizomes brought from Scotland nearly 50 years ago, which were able to get down deep into the moisture-retentive clay (so deep, I can't find them!) which seems to be the secret to keeping it going in dry gardens - it needs to go down deep, but not planted deep to start with - it needs to grow down deep. Problem is getting it to stay around long enough in a dry garden for it to get down deep enough.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on March 22, 2008, 07:21:16 PM: Don't worry, Susan, I'll be able to assist these poor deluded chaps with roots from Scotland :P

I'm not able to assist with germination info... have never sowed it and watched!!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan on March 22, 2008, 09:55:44 PM: The tubers go down maybe 3 feet into the clay. Our property has a band of volcanic soil that is quite fertile and it takes a while to get into the sub soil I think. That is why it is hard to eradicate. I have to say that I do like it at this stage when the berries are on the vine they are rather stunning. I just have to forget what a hoon it is and get out the rake and start pulling it off the trees.

Maggi, maybe we both have a similar sort of dampish climate?

Susan
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 22, 2008, 10:16:14 PM: Away from the Forum for just a day, I open up this morning to find 127 new postings in my inbox!

I should say that my friend Susan's T. speciosum is as you see above and when I would like to see it, I visit her as I CAN'T GROW IT. I'm one it hates. But then, I have a dry garden. Not for nothing is it called the "Scottish Flame Creeper." On the other hand, T. ciliatum rampages everywhere. I have it outside, on a fence in the first place but now moving wherever it likes. The flowers are pretty, yes; light orange with red veining but small and not so good as to justify the way it relocates. Paul, both T. ciliatum and T. speciosum do have perennial rhizomes, very thin and long and these can travel enormous distances in a season. If your garden is hot, you're not likely to succeed with T. speciosum.

I was given some rhizomes a few years ago by Dave Toole who has it growing in the native bush around his home, where it is a recognized conservation weed. But they didn't like my garden and died almost at once. Unfortunately, in the meantime T. ciliatum had ramped along and taken their place (the rhizomes look identical) so I made the terrible mistake of thinking speciosum was estabalishing nicely but when it bloomed, it was the other.

What makes me really mad though, is that I bought T. ciliatum from a local person who has super plants generally. She had had the seed from Harold McBride, AS T. AZUREUM!!!, and I, at that time not recognizing that the foliage was wrong, bought it in good faith, only to be landed with a subsequent and very real problem.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on March 22, 2008, 10:35:21 PM: Yesterday I was typing up my friend John Lupton's weather report for the local area for our local Group newsletter.... this tells me that last year (2007) he recorded 987.9mm of rain in his garden, about 6 miles away from us. A bit wetter than normal.
I don't think the Trop. wants it too dry and I'm not sure how it does in places where it is really wet, but it loves life in Aberdeenshire, I assure you!
I think it would be too dry with you, Paul. It doesn't make real tubers, just a huge network of thick white roots, some of which do get fat enough to be almost tubers.... but basically the thing is founded on fat white strings! Trouble is, when it is happy and established, it grows well fron thin white strings, also ::)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: t00lie on March 23, 2008, 12:35:10 AM: Quote---"was given some rhizomes a few years ago by Dave Toole who has it growing in the native bush around his home, where it is a recognized conservation weed. But they didn't like my garden and died almost at once."

I wish to point out out i was very very naive back then--i'm a lot wiser now--Thank goodness they died Lesley.

The Tropaeolum used to clothe the shrubs/trees along the edge of our driveway in numerous dense growths ,however i've been successful in eradicating it by the following method.--

A repeated squirt of Roundup (or Touchdown which is a stronger form of glysophate) on the leaves will kill it outright over 2 to 3 seasons.
This is easy to accomplish where the plant is growing up around a hosts trunk however where it is growing through leaves /greenery i gently lift the weed off and place thick sheets of newspapers between the host and Trop and give it a blast.

As an aside i've finally managed to kill a large running clump of Alstromeria ,(which had previously resisted the effects of glysophate --dicamba and one or two other herbicides),by spraying with Amitrole .

Cheers dave.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan on March 23, 2008, 01:40:10 AM: Dave, I'm sure Amitrole knocks most things back! My Alstroemeria grows through a whole lot of stuff, so am about to dig out anything I want, then I may have to make it scorched earth stuff. Do you think anything would ever grow again? How come I have all these horrible weeds? gorse, broom, onion weed.... Why can't it be fabulous crocus, corydalis and some of those rarities that I long for.

Maggi, we have an average of 800mm a year but we do have a few grey damp days. Although at present we are in drought conditions, and it does not seem to be having any effect on the Tropaeolum.

Susan
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on March 23, 2008, 06:32:16 PM: Oh wow! Can i be also a candidate for T. speciosum seeds? Very lovely!
Here we have T. majus everywhere, and i mean literally *everywhere*. It's hard not to find an abandoned terrain who hasn't it!. It's very widespread, but only appears during winter and spring time. When it starts to get hot, the plants disappear. Although it's a very noxious weed, i still like to see their lovely red and yellow flowers. But this one is annual, do not have tubers for the next season.

Note from Maggi : Michael, I will send you some roots later !
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: t00lie on March 23, 2008, 08:50:54 PM: Quote--"then I may have to make it scorched earth stuff. Do you think anything would ever grow again?"

Amitrole is stated to have a short soil life and treated areas can be sown out 4 weeks after spraying Susan so you should be okay.
In any case i'd suggest not replant straight away to allow any possible weed regrowth to show up.

Certainly i've had no problems with shrubs planted out in areas i've previously treated.

Cheers dave.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Iturraran on March 24, 2008, 10:50:54 AM: In my first message ever in this forum I'd say I'd love to receive some fresh seed of this beauty. Our soils are rather heavy, but rain should be no problem (1,500 mm./year).
I'm a SRGC life member for years and work as head garden at Iturraran Botanical Garden, quite a wild but interesting place.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ian Y on March 24, 2008, 10:58:49 AM: Hello and Welcome to the forum Jose - I hope this will be the first of many posts.

We get lots of seed and will happily collect and send you some later in the year we can even send you some roots if you would like.

The tropaeolum likes a moist humus rich soil to get established then if it likes your garden it will thrive. The commonest mistake people make is to plant it close to a hedge or shrub that they want it to climb up. The best thing to do is to plant it into an area well away from the dry zone created by the hedge en-rich the planting hole with organic matter and once it starts to grow it will soon find something to climb up.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Iturraran on March 24, 2008, 11:10:07 AM: Ian,

Wow, that's a quick answer ! :o

Thank you SO much!!!. It will be fun to try seeds/roots you might share... I'll take good care to select a humid spot :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on March 28, 2008, 09:29:04 PM: I was wondering if the tubers of the tuberous Tropaeolum produce offsets or the only way of propagating them is from seed? And if they do produce offsets, do all species do it?
Thanks
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on March 28, 2008, 09:45:43 PM: Not all of the tuberous tropaeolum produce offsets. For instance, Trop. azureum hardly ever does with us, while Trop. tricolorum does quite happily make babies.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Iturraran on March 29, 2008, 12:41:19 AM: This fabled Tropaeolum azureum, can it be grown outdoors in the open ground, or is it more like a pot thing?, What sort of growing conditions does it need?. Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ian Y on March 29, 2008, 09:39:30 AM: Jose
Check out my bulb log for information on Trop azureum. Here are three links but if you check out the index, provided by Len Rhind, you will find several more references.

http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/140503/log.html

http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/041103/log.html

http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2006/080306/log.html
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Iturraran on March 29, 2008, 11:14:09 AM: Ian,

EXCELLENT info, many thanks!.
I can see this is a very difficult plant, I better 'play' with T. speciosum first, and if I succeed, perhaps T. azureum will be tried one day ::)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Martin Baxendale on March 29, 2008, 01:49:23 PM: I've been wondering if I dared post this in case it gave anyone a heart-attack - I bought some yubers of Tropaeolum ciliatum last year with the intention of trying to cross it with my parents' plants of T. speciosum, in the hope of raising some hybrids with the flower colour of speciosum and the vigour and tolerance of dry conditions of ciliatum, which would succeed in my dry garden.

I'm now going to sit back and wait for the screams of alarm from various forumist who find speciosum a pest, let alone a speciosum/ciliatum hybrid. I might still try it. Be afraid! Be very afraid! ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tony Willis on March 29, 2008, 04:16:09 PM: Martin having spent 14 years and a small fortune on plants to totally fail, I would be happy to have one that looks like speciosum however rampant
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Martin Baxendale on March 29, 2008, 04:19:09 PM: Quote from: Tony Willis on March 29, 2008, 04:16:09 PM
Martin having spent 14 years and a small fortune on plants to totally fail, I would be happy to have one that looks like speciosum however rampant

That was my feeling too, Tony.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 29, 2008, 11:31:48 PM: Quote from: Tony Willis on March 29, 2008, 04:16:09 PM
Martin having spent 14 years and a small fortune on plants to totally fail, I would be happy to have one that looks like speciosum however rampant

My feelings exactly. I do have a dry garden of course, where T. ciliatum thrives and ramps while T. speciosum vanishes over night. So I was offended deeply when Dave Toole down the road having given me some thin rhizomes of the latter, showed relief when they didn't "do" for me, as if I should be grateful and his guilt at the gift was expunged. So offended in fact, that unbeknownst to him, I travelled down there in the dead of night and put a dead possum in his water tank.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: t00lie on March 30, 2008, 12:00:27 AM: Firstly you're pic'd at the South west Exeter Show and now you've been down this way Lesley.
You sure do get around girl !!!!.

Martin and Tony
I'd start stocking up on Roundup ---you're gonna need it !!!.

Cheers dave.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: David Lyttle on April 02, 2008, 10:40:38 AM: Martin,

Not withstanding Dave's advice Roundup wont even touch it. Why dont you consider doing something benign like manufacturing anthrax !

Lesley,

Having had to cope out here with Clematis vitalba, Passiflora mollissima and Bomarea multiflora over-running our bush remnants we now also have Tropaeolum speciosum being spread by the birds from the garden of someone who should know better. She keeps it, apparently, because it attracts the birds. The local eco activists would happily cover you with aniseed and sew you in a wool sack with a dozen live possums for company if you started growing the thing.

Tropaeolum speciosum is the most appalling weed as it is virtually impossible to control once it jumps the garden fence. Here it is all through the bush in the Taieri Gorge above Outram. Improving a weed by giving it hybrid vigour is not a good idea.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Martin Baxendale on April 02, 2008, 11:21:59 AM: Quote from: David Lyttle on April 02, 2008, 10:40:38 AM
Tropaeolum speciosum is the most appalling weed as it is virtually impossible to control once it jumps the garden fence. Here it is all through the bush in the Taieri Gorge above Outram. Improving a weed by giving it hybrid vigour is not a good idea.

I appreciate the problem with Tropaeolum speciosum becoming such a terrible weed in some places where the local climate really suits it, but here in the UK it simply won't grow at all in many areas, and a lot of gardeners would love to grow it. But not to worry. I probably won't find the time to do the cross anyway. And if I do, it most likely wouldn't take.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: David Lyttle on April 02, 2008, 08:46:30 PM: Thats a relief Martin. Another hybrid weed here is the orange Montbretia. People dig it out of their gardens usually by the trailer load and dump into nice damp gullies on the roadsides with predictible results.

The trouble with swapping plants through international exchanges is that species end up in places where they can create problems not just for individual gardeners but serious ecological problems that are very expensive and sometimes virtually impossible to mitigate.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan on April 02, 2008, 09:31:12 PM: And of course we have gorse. Hard to grow in Australia I believe but a massive weed here. Brought in with the best of intentions and now rampant. Dipping T speciosum into pure Roundup does have limited success but I am not sure it gets right into the tubers unless they are small, although it knocks it back.

Susan
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 03, 2008, 12:05:58 AM: Right. I'll go and stick my head in a bucket of water for even thinking about growing it. :'(
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on April 03, 2008, 07:01:57 PM: Quote from: David Lyttle on April 02, 2008, 10:40:38 AM
Having had to cope out here with Clematis vitalba, Passiflora mollissima and Bomarea multiflora over-running our bush remnants we now also have Tropaeolum speciosum being spread by the birds from the garden of someone who should know better.

Bomarea? Is that a weed? This is getting even more interesting. Yes i understand that some plants are very noxious to the environment (here we also have problems with P. molissima and Anredera cordifolia), but i had no idea that beautifull plants such as Bomarea could be that invasive and problematic ...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 03, 2008, 08:47:47 PM: Yes Mike, I'm afraid so. And not only B. multiflora. Other species are almost equally invasive if given the opportunity. It seems that in New Zealand almost any climbing plant which is not killed by frost, is potentially a dangerous weed. My mother used to grow Ipomea learii which is a glorious blue and it was cut every year by frost but further north, it is a rampant and very vigorous weed, as bad as the common white Convolvulus.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: David Lyttle on April 03, 2008, 08:48:34 PM: I am involved with a group that is interested in the restoration/conservation of native forest. Amongst the weeds that are problems lianes are the most difficult to deal with as they are tangled in other vegetation. At the top of the list I would place Tropolaeum and Bomarea. They come from a similar climatic region, are distributed by birds and have underground tubers from which they can resprout. It takes a great deal of effort and persistence to locate plants and remove them. With Bomarea our local eco activists locate plants that are flowering, physically dig them out so they will not set seed. They take the GPS co-ordinates so they can return next year for follow up treatment. Of course some people think they are nice garden plants and do not want them removed but the local authority has a noxious plants list and if you have a listed plant growing you are compelled to remove it. All these plant started as garden escapes. Dave Toole's persistence and effort in removing Tropolaeum from his property is admirable - not enough people deal with their infestations in a timely and effective manner.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan on April 03, 2008, 08:50:31 PM: Add to that one of the Erigerons (karvinskianus maybe?) which in the north forms a deep cushion and stops native bush from regenerating. Gunnera tinctoria and Lonicera japonica, and you have a number of plants which grow rampantly once they hit our shores. I suppose you can see why we have such stringent seed and plant import laws. Although give me a chance to get snowdrops and trillium growing rampantly.......

Susan.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: David Lyttle on April 03, 2008, 09:10:39 PM: While we are on the subject of environmental weeds there is also Calluna vulgaris, Erica lusitanica, Myrtus ugni, Rosa rubiginosa, Berberis darwinii, Hieracium lepidulum and Hieracium pilosella not to mention Ulex europaeus and Cytisus scoparium. The list could go on and on and on -----.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 03, 2008, 09:31:29 PM: I didn't realize Myrtus ugni (the so-called NZ cranberry, though not a native and related to guava, not cranberries) was a weed here too David. I grow a few bushes of this but I never get to eat the fruit as our little flock of chooks gets the fruit before they are fully ripe. I suppose the seeds go through their systems but I've never seen a seedling anywhere about.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: David Lyttle on April 03, 2008, 10:26:46 PM: Lesley,

It is a problem on the Chatham Islands and parts of Southland where it is spreading into the peatlands.
You can probably still grow it with clear conscience but I would put it on watch.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan on April 03, 2008, 10:59:51 PM: Myrtus ugni is quite delicious to eat raw or put in tarts, sauces etc. I have never seen it seeding here either, unlike some of the others. I understood that it was being trialled as a crop in Southland.

Hieraciums find their way into the lawns and I seem to have a never ending task getting rid of them. Broom and gorse make very good firewood when dry. Then there are always sycamores. At least none of them actually eat bulbs as mentioned in one of the other threads on this forum.

Susan.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on May 05, 2008, 08:44:55 PM: Hello, Friends!
At the Glasgow Show on Saturday 3rd May, I was delighted to be shown, by Steve McFarlane, a selection of flowers of various Tropaeolum hybrids that he is growing. He received these hybrids, some as seed and some as tubers, from an English grower who is very keen on these plants. I believe that the hybrids include Trop. hookerianum in their parentage, but I am not sure. I am trying to persuade Steve to join us here to tell us more!
Steve showed me details of these interesting forms in a publication of the Geraniaceae Group.... though what that Group has to do with Trops, I am at a loss to say!! ::)
Here are a couple of pix of these very pretty hybrid flowers.... the largest of which is about 23 mm across.....
[attach=1]
The colours are lovely, with delicate markings
[attach=2]
Steve has a website, though he tells me these flowers are not yet featured there.
URL for the site is: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.mcfarlane/index.html
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan on May 05, 2008, 09:35:42 PM: They look wonderful. Please encourage Steve to join and keep us updayed.

Susan
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 05, 2008, 10:15:25 PM: Absolutely! These look amazing, with subtle colourings and markings. Something to look forward to when some seed gets about.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on May 06, 2008, 01:47:38 PM: Nice pictures! Have the blue ones T. azureum genes?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on May 08, 2008, 12:09:43 PM: Wow Maggi (and Steve),

Impressive!! :o Love the shadings and markings. I'm with Lesley. 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on May 10, 2008, 12:57:05 PM: OK I've been Maggied (Maggied - being given no real alternative to doing something that you know you should have done ages ago). The hybrid Tropaeolums shown by Maggi Young were grown by myself from seed and tubers supplied by Rosemary Wilson of Suffolk. She has been producing many wonderful colour forms over the past few years as has Emiko Tsujii in Japan. My own efforts have produced one washed out purple specimen which was not worth keeping. Rosemary's hybrids are largely between T. beuthii and T. hookerianum ssp. austropurpureum but I am sure there are a number of other species in her greenhouse. Since last week another attractive form has begun to flower but unfortunately I cannot work out how to get pictures onto the forum. Perhaps someone could help. For general information I am at present growing around ten species in my greenhouse, four outdoors as well as a few tender species and forms.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on May 10, 2008, 01:06:12 PM: Dear Steve, the warmest of welcomes to you!
Now, that was really easy, wasn't it? And there aren't even any bruises :-X
What you need to do now is have a read of the Help pages, accessed from the Help button ( second left at the top of each page) and also read the threads here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=41.0 which explain how to get going with posting photos
It's a doddle, honest... after all... I can do it!

Bt the way, I was impressed that the cut Trop. flowers you gave me to photgraph lasted six days in water in an egg cup on my kitchen window sill! Not bad , eh?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: David Nicholson on May 10, 2008, 08:07:15 PM: Welcome Steve, keep trying you will soon get the hang of posting pictures, the first time is the worst.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on May 10, 2008, 10:25:27 PM: Welcome Steve!!!

BTW, what time of the year does the tuberous tropaeolum start to to yellow the leaves and enter dormancy?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on May 13, 2008, 05:00:18 PM: Here is another of the hybrid tropaeolums.

[attach=1]

Rather pretty!

The winter growing tropaeolums in my greenhouse in cool and damp west of Scotland tend to stay green until May but I think that dormancy is triggered by a combination of high temperatures and any dryness at the roots. Some species - pentaphyllum, sessilifolium, incisum tend to flower rather late in the season but even these can go dormant if kept too warm or dry.

I thought members might be interested in two forms of T. azureum that have flowered for me this year.

[attachthumb=2]
very round flowers probably the form normally seen and probably more attractive

[attachthumb=3]
much narrower petals
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on May 13, 2008, 05:47:32 PM: Great, Steve, I knew you could crack it!
What a pretty thing this Trop is... puts me in mind of a blood orange. The markings make the colour very quirky 8)

we have found with Trop. azureum that it is a good idea to pinch back the early growth, at about three inches (8cms) to ensure more bushy growth.... have you tried that with any of the hybrids?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Brian Ellis on May 13, 2008, 05:50:10 PM: Welcome Steve and well done, beautiful hybrid.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 13, 2008, 10:02:00 PM: A question from someone who has just one clone of T. azureum and would like more.
In the second of the two pics Steve, the flowers seem to have some kind of excerted stigma or maybe a closed bunch of stamens. Is this correct? In which case, would this more obvious apparatus be likely to get pollinated - by hand or insect - than the above flowers which have no obvious stigma or stamens? Sort of like the pin eye/thrum eye arrangement of primulas. I hand pollinate my plant but nothing results.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on May 14, 2008, 05:04:22 PM: Hi Lesley

I've had a look at both clones and there seems to be little difference between the two except for petal width. I don't know if it's much consolation but I rarely get any seed from azureum either.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lars S on May 14, 2008, 09:12:02 PM: Talking about T azureum, I had a rather different problem with my seeds from the SRGC seed counter. They all germinated almost immediately in my fridge (in a moist paper towel) but after I had planted them in pots the seedlings just stopped growing after a while turned pale and died. Some kind of fungus I suppose, I kept them indoors and rather warm. Rather annoying really since I have understood that T azureum is tricky to germinate.

Actually, I have noticed that for me narcissus seeds germinate much better in a paper towel compared to in soil in a pot. Not that I have run any extensive tests though ...

Lars
Stockholm/Sweden
(where the weather has turned cold again)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on May 14, 2008, 09:43:25 PM: Lars, I think you should not have kept the seedlings indoors and rather warm.......an unheated glasshouse or frame would have been better :'(
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lars S on May 15, 2008, 09:35:06 PM: Yes, I guess you´re right Maggi. The problem was that the seeds germinated much quicker than I had expected in the dead of winter. I will do it differently the next time.

Lars
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan Band on June 30, 2008, 04:57:13 PM: An up to date picture of Tropaeolum incisum flowering just now.
Susan
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 30, 2008, 11:02:26 PM: It's a beauty Susan. Can you tell me something of its growing conditions. Mine is in a deep, sunny trough and though it flowered about 5 years ago, it hasn't done, since. Perhaps if it does well for you (with mecs and cremanthodiums ;D) it likes a cooler place?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on July 01, 2008, 12:01:46 AM: Very nice Susan. Another new one to me.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan Band on July 01, 2008, 09:32:05 AM: Lesley,
The Tropaeolum is growing in a large polystyrene box under a cool shelter along with my Lilium and Trillium seedlings. More to keep it under control than anything. I know the similar T.polyphyllum can quickly die down if there is a hot spell, this one can as well but usually after it flowers. Yours might be dieing back before it has a chance to flower. I think a cooler place with plenty of summer moisture might be a good idea.
Susan
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 01, 2008, 12:05:57 PM: I'll try that. Summer moisture, it DOESN'T have! Nor does T. polyphyllum and that doesn't flower either though the leafy branches always look very healthy.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on October 09, 2008, 06:13:43 PM: I know that it is not yet TRopaeolum time, but thanks to SueG I decided to buy some seeds at plant-world-seeds, T. brachyceras and T. lepidum. Sowed them (without much hope, but too much to not try it ;) ) in pots I placed outside - well and there they weere, for months, until it got really cold recently - now I have two nice seedlings of each species & am very happy ! Hope I'll get them big...

Michael
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on October 10, 2008, 12:22:35 AM: here's a pic from Otto of his T. azureum
[attachthumb=1]
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on October 10, 2008, 12:44:35 AM: Thanks Otto and Fermi... lovely plant... interesting to see that the flower form, while quite full and rounded, is actually more an intermediate between the two forms shown by Steven MacFarlane earlier in this thread ......
« Reply #74 on: May 13, 2008, on the previous page.... 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 15, 2009, 11:29:15 PM: Hello, I'm a french tropaeolum enthusiast, and I'm planning to build a collection with the aim of asking for its registration as the french national tropaeolum collection , in partnership with the Botanical Gaeden in LYON/FRANCE. I do grow some species purchased in the UK (bought as tubers or seeds ). I'm keeping in touch with nurseries, seed companies, the Geraniaceae Group ( Richard CLIFTON ). I wrote to Kew Gardens , Inveresk Lodge Garden. I'm looking for very rare chilean species ( Tropaeolum JILESII, LOOSERI, KINGII, MYRIOPHYLLUM, NUPTAE-JUCUNDAE, LEPTOPHYLLUM ssp GRACILE, HOOKERIANUM ssp PILOSUM )
and other south american uncommon species ( Tropaeolum MORITZIANUM, BRASILIENSE, WAGNERIANUM, ...). Can anyone help me on how and where to ask for these rarities?
Thanks for advice and help
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on January 15, 2009, 11:38:25 PM: Hello, Jean-Patrick... good to have you join the Forum.
The Tropaeolum are delightful plants, I wish you well with your seacrh and for the future of your project. Do you have much experience with growing other Tropaelum species? Where in France do you garden? That might have quite an impact on which plants will grow with you, depending on climate, etc. ?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 16, 2009, 01:29:48 AM: I have T. myriophyllum but just a single bulb so far (2 and half years, bought from a local nursery). It hasn't flowered yet but is just emerging now - I noticed it yesterday when watering. The foliage is very pretty. If you'd like to send me a personal message I'll give you the contact for the supplier who may get seed.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Alessandro.marinello on January 16, 2009, 12:19:05 PM: Hello Jean
it tries to watch in this site ;)
http://www.chileflora.com/
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 20, 2009, 11:51:08 PM: Hello,
thanks for answers and link to chileflora which I've just visited. I'm gardening in the centre-east of France . There are light winters nowadays ( between 0° and -5°) hot summers ( up to 33° some days but usually less than 30° ) and very nice spring and autumn. I keep my plants in pots well protected in winter ( most of them are in full growth at present ). I know it's not good for Tr. polyphyllum, Tr. speciosum & Tr. ciliatum which will feel better in a garden( I have 2 balconies ). I grow other species ( Tr. azureum, brachyceras, tricolor, "lepidum",beuthii, hookerianum, pentaphyllum, argentinum, peltophorum, peregrinum ). I've sown other ones ( Tr. rhomboideum, x tenuirostre, incisum, leptophyllum, sessilifolium, hookerianum ssp austropurpureum, smithii ) and manage to purchase new tubers next spring ( Tr.rhomboideum, sessilifolium, incisum ). I've read a topic on the AGS website about germination of south african bulb seeds. It was said that the seeds needed a hot spell after ripening before they could germinate in autumn when cold nights and short days happen. I wonder if it may de, the case of the chilean tropaeolum species which germination is very erratic and varies so much with seed origins .
Does any one has experience on this topic?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 28, 2009, 10:40:45 PM: Well... nobody seems to grow Tropaeolum??? Think I'll go on adding to this topic: Tropaeolum are such crazy things...Last year I've checked some pots I've sown ( a dozen or so ) which were covered with some kind of algae making a thick layer on the surface ( bad compost...). No germination had happened for 1-2 years. I decided to get rid of them and put the old compost & the old seeds as a layer on 2 well planted big containers. Early December 2 young Tropaeolum seedlings raised amidst the other plants...I picked them carefully and potted them individually .Since then 4 other seedlings appeared and I've got now 6 unexpected little plants but heaven knows which species they are... ( there's probably 1 Tr. azureum ). In fact seeds really germinate when and where they want ( unfortunately never where or when you want them to ... )
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on January 28, 2009, 10:51:51 PM: J-P, vous devez l'accepter dans une certaine mesure, la nature, n'est-ce pas?
You must accept nature to a certain extent, mustn't you? ::) That is the challenge of gardenieng... and what a delight that even after some time you have those unexpected trop. babies!
It is always good practice with Trops to keep them growing, when they are seedlings, for as long as possible before they fall back to dormancy ......the bigger the tuber can become, the less susceptible it seems to retreating to that very complete and long-lasting dormancy that so many Trops are prone to.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 29, 2009, 02:49:34 AM: I'll take a picture of my T. myriophyllum when it's a little bit bigger. Two stems this year.

Don't we have another Tropaeolum thread somewhere with those beautiful hybrids that someone raised? Maybe the two threads could be merged Maggi?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Carlo on January 29, 2009, 03:09:34 AM: I'm glad to hear (ahead of time) that seed is so erratic. I'm giving it a first go this year and would have hated if I had given up too early. We've all had the "extended germination" experience before, but it's nice to know what genera are prone to it.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on January 29, 2009, 10:40:39 AM: Quote
Maybe the two threads could be merged Maggi?

I have done that .
Just a note that there are threads on Trop. azureum in Grow from Seed

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1391.0 and Plants Wanted, also....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=286.0
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on January 29, 2009, 11:01:40 AM: Quote from: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 28, 2009, 10:40:45 PM
Well... nobody seems to grow Tropaeolum???

Thanks for starting this thread Jean-Patrick.

Yes I am growing a few species from seed (argentinum, brachyceras, hookerianum, lepidum and a few others) and may post some pictures when they are in flower.

In my very limited experience germination has not been difficult, just erratic. A cold period seems to be essential for all of the species I've tried so far. Keeping the seedlings growing for as long as possible in their first season is also important, as Maggi says, and then storing tubers cool and fairly dry (but not too dry) brings them back to life as temperatures fall in autumn.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on January 29, 2009, 11:57:24 AM: I also love tropaeolum, and mine are just starting putting up some buds! Whohooo!!
I'll post the pictures here too :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: David Pilling on January 29, 2009, 01:56:09 PM: Picking up from my postings way back in this thread.

In January 2008 I had three lots of T. speciosum seed. AGS seedex, SRGC seedex and by chance SRGC surplus. I soaked and pealed them, put them in zip seal bags with a moist kitchen towel, kept them a couple of weeks indoors in the warm and then outside in the cold and on through the Summer.

Roots started to come out of the SRGC surplus seed around Christmas, nothing from the other two batches yet.

The ones that have germinated have presumably been drier for longer (surplus seed arrives later) and were eventually kept in darkness - they might be from a different source.

Conclusion. They're fickle and they germinate in the cold not the warm.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 31, 2009, 11:08:46 PM: I just want to emphasize that seed germination depends on seed sources. In my experience I had good results from J&J ARCHIBALD ( at least 50% germination rate ). At present I have:
-tr. hookerianum ( 2 seedlings raised out of 5 seeds )
-tr. hookerianum ssp austropurpureum ( 4 out of 5 )
-tr. azureum ( 4 out of 5 )
But yet no germination from tr. rhomboideum...of which I clearly don't know about germination requierements... Can anybody help?
-tr. sessilifolium ( 4 out of 10- but there may be some more underground... )
-tr. leptophyllum ( 3 out of 5 sown last year- emerging now... )
I don't know at present about tr. polyphyllum which begins to root underground long before shouting. (Same thing applies to tr. incisum from CHILTERN SEEDS sown last year ).
About tr. speciosum and tr. ciliatum: it seems to me that these ones always wait a year or more before they germinate...
Germination from SRGC & AGS seed exchange seems to be more erratic as quoted before in this topic but it's always worth asking for seeds as good surprises may appear and as a tropaeolum enthusiast I'm interested in every seed which can be on offer...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on January 31, 2009, 11:15:34 PM: Quote
I just want to emphasize that seed germination depends on seed sources.
Not necessarily! We have variable germination rates from our own seed from good plants, so we think the variability is built in!!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on February 28, 2009, 02:54:36 PM: Maggi, are these flowers familiar to you? ;D ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on February 28, 2009, 03:05:09 PM: They are indeed, Michael...... I am pleased to see them enjoying life in Madeira! 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on February 28, 2009, 04:24:36 PM: I never thought that from those thread-like stems, thin as hairs, i would get these pretty flowers this season! The pot is well secured to avoid being moved by someone or something.

The T. azureum is also doing well, it is a bit smaller though.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on February 28, 2009, 05:12:47 PM: Quote from: Michael on February 28, 2009, 04:24:36 PM
I never thought that from those thread-like stems, thin as hairs, i would get these pretty flowers this season! The pot is well secured to avoid being moved by someone or something.

The T. azureum is also doing well, it is a bit smaller though.
It is to be expected that the azureum is smaller, though it will grow quite a bit still, from this stage in the season. The tricolorum may yet surprise you with more growth and flower! In future years you will be most pleasantly surprised by just how much growth and flower it can produce!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 02, 2009, 10:34:54 PM: Hi Everyboby,
I have by now some Chilean Tropaeolum with small flowerbuds appearing . Flowers within a month?
and 7 tropaeolum leptophyllum seedlings emerging ( from J&J Archibald ). It's so exciting!!! But will they go to flower? and produce seeds? and ( most important ) little tubers? with a little luck...By the way, I'm looking for tropaeolum Moritzianum seeds for next summer. Does anybody know of a seed source for this species? If my tropaeolum flower well I'll try to understand how to post photos. I have a few tropaeolum argentinum spare seeds harvested last autumn on my plant ( from J&J Archibald seeds ). Anyone interested?
Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on March 02, 2009, 11:16:00 PM: Jean-Patrick.... it may take longer than you imaginefor the flowers to fully mature and open.
To get the tubers as big as possible, give a regular half-strength food to the plants.... even tomato fertiliser is okay, and keep them growing for as long as possible.... if they get too dry at any time they will move too quickly to dormancy.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on March 04, 2009, 10:22:06 AM: Hi Jean-Patrick,

Do you have a photo of T. argentinum ? I have some seedlings of these growing very fast and am wondering how the flower might be - google doesn't seem to find a picture of this one.

I also got some seeds of "Tropaeolum hybrids" from the seed exchange, which produced 4 plants up to now - I am very curious what will come out of those, and certainly I have some great expectations after having seen the hybrid pics here...

Does anyone have a hint at which size I can start giving the seedlings a little feed ?

Thank you !

Kind regards from Munich !

Michael
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on March 04, 2009, 10:31:47 AM: Mickey, if your seed compost has a reasonable amount of nutrients, there should be enough food there for the young seedlings. In a month or two, probably by late April you could then begin to feed them ...but be sure to give dilute feed , it is very easy to burn the roots of young plants.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ezeiza on March 04, 2009, 02:03:07 PM: Hi:

If your Tropaeolum argentinum is growing now, it is under the opposite cycle. It starts into growth with the spring well advanced and will go dormant before winter. The dormant season is very long.

Regards
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on March 04, 2009, 04:53:02 PM: Thank you Maggie, then I'll wait a little and be careful !

Thanks Ezeiza, for the advice with T. argentinum ! I recently ordered the seed and immedieately sowed it (after applying GA-3, no idea if it's a benefit in Tropaeolum), and it's growing very fast for some 3 weeks. Maybe I can keep it growin until autumn?
Do you have an idea where I can find a photo showing this species' flowers ? I have no idea, I bought the seeds thinking no Tropaeolum is ugly, and now I'm curious what they will look like....

Best regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ezeiza on March 04, 2009, 06:38:02 PM: Hi:

I think there is no image available now.

Granted, there are no Tropaeolums that are not attractive.

Try to grow it for as long as possible so it can follow the natural pattern (Cool/dry/dormant). And only go dormant in your coming autumn.

It was you who generously offered seed of his own plant? Desirable as it may be to others, it is an unwise move. Much more convenient woudl be to sow such seed and try to obtain more parent plants. These species are so rare that it would not be surprising not to see them in the trade again.

Regards
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on March 05, 2009, 08:46:02 AM: All right, that sounds good - I'll keep you updated on how they will perform. All I can say now is that they are the fastest growing seedlings I have ever seen in the tuberous Tropaeolums with rather large leaves already.

Ezeiza, it was not me who offered the seeds in this thread - I just received the seeds from JJA and they have been growing for some weeks - so there are no parent plants here yet....

Best regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on March 05, 2009, 01:39:03 PM: Michael, could you post a picture of that species?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on March 15, 2009, 03:12:42 PM: Hi Michael,

Sorry it took me so long to reply, I had some fights with my PC (which I won, finally :-)
All I can show you of that species is seedlings, which grow very quick - I'm really curious how this species will perform !

p.s. the tiny shoots on the left are seedlings of T. hybrids grown from seed from the exchange - much smaller, but they grow well and hopefully will flower in 2010 or 2011....

Best regards !

Michael
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on March 15, 2009, 03:14:22 PM: btw: the rest of our bedroom window is invaded by T. tricolor, I'm looking forward to flowers in 3-4 weeks.......
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Gerdk on March 15, 2009, 03:17:17 PM: Do I spot Canarina canariensis in the Schlafzimmer also? 8)

Gerd
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on March 15, 2009, 05:30:49 PM: Wow, you have a good eye :-)
I have 3 pots of them there, the first flowered last year, some 4 years from seed.....
Lovely, but I'm afraid by the long term they'll be too large.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on March 16, 2009, 06:04:52 PM: Thanks for the picture Michael. I just love to see these different leaf shapes that trops have.

By the way here is an update of mine, with more and more flowers as days pass!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on March 17, 2009, 01:45:35 PM: You're welcome, Michael :-)
The leaves of T. argentinum appear a bit like minature T. peregrinum leaves, quite distinct I would say. I wonder how large it will grow this year...

The flowers of T. tricolorum are magnificent, I can't wait for mine to flower !

best regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Melvyn Jope on March 17, 2009, 09:56:32 PM: A couple of Tropaeolum sp. growing happily together, Tropaeolum triclorum and Tropaeolum brachyceras, do you think there will be the possibility of hybrids?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 17, 2009, 11:41:16 PM: Hello, Melvyn. Yes, of course there's a possibility. In the wild there's one known hybrid between Tr brachyceras & Tr tricolor: Tr x TENUIROSTRE and you might harvest interesting seeds. Let's see what they will produce next year...
Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 18, 2009, 12:30:20 AM: Hi Michael,
As far as I know Tr ARGENTINUM is an ANNUAL species and that's why it grows so fast. It has broad leaves which look like those of Tr PEREGRINUM. The flowers are yellow with 5 delicately clawded petals and a long spur pointing upward. They are often produced in pseudo-racemes. I suggest that you put your plant outdoors for all summer and let the bees do their work. It might be advisable to hand-pollinate some flowers just to be sure to have some seeds. That's what I did last year...It's really a nice species and I'm sure you'll be delighted with it.
Unfortunately all the close-up photos I took have been damaged when developing.
Good luck with your plants
Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on March 18, 2009, 05:26:33 AM: Quote from: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 18, 2009, 12:30:20 AM
As far as I know Tr ARGENTINUM is an ANNUAL species and that's why it grows so fast.
Thanks for that advice, Jean-Patrick, as I got seed recently and I won't sow them till spring heer!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on March 19, 2009, 08:11:23 PM: Hi Jean-Patrick,

Thanks for the advice, now I know !
I treated it just like the other (tuberous) Tropaeolums - I'll keep them cold so that they don't grow that fast til I can get them outside....

Kind regards !

Michael
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 20, 2009, 11:17:17 PM: Hello,
I've found only this BAD photo of Tr ARGENTINUM I took last year. That gives a "blurred" idea of what the plant could be...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on March 21, 2009, 02:08:55 PM: First flowers on T. lepidum, sown last September

...and the assistant gardener
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on March 21, 2009, 03:48:37 PM: That's a fine colour, Ashley... the assistant knows her stuff, obviously!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Alex on March 21, 2009, 04:35:54 PM: T. azureum from today.

Alex
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Alex on March 21, 2009, 04:36:28 PM: Sorry for any cricked necks!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 21, 2009, 09:29:25 PM: T. lepidum is a beauty, and the assistant is extra specially nice. :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on March 21, 2009, 09:36:46 PM: Quote from: Maggi Young on March 21, 2009, 03:48:37 PM
That's a fine colour, Ashley... the assistant knows her stuff, obviously!

Quote from: Lesley Cox on March 21, 2009, 09:29:25 PM
T. lepidum is a beauty, and the assistant is extra specially nice. :)

If truth be told the greenhouse bores her, but when nagging proves unsuccessful she just lies down in resignation.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 22, 2009, 10:19:04 PM: Hello,
There are so many tropaeolum species worth growing...I'm waiting for mine to bloom but I thought of some nice ones I grew in 2007 ( Tr PELTOPHORUM ) and in 2008 ( Tr PENTAPHYLLUM ).
Thanks to all the contributors of this exciting forum...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tony Willis on March 23, 2009, 11:25:16 AM: the Tropaeolum pentaphyllum is very nice,not one I have seen before.

Here are two of mine

Topaeolum brachyceras
Tropaeolum hookerianum
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Melvyn Jope on March 23, 2009, 02:56:07 PM: Hello Tony,
Maybe an illusion but your T. brachyceras looks much larger than mine, perhaps you just grow it better than me!
I love the colour of T.hookerianum, does it have any special requirements?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tony Willis on March 23, 2009, 06:23:20 PM: Melvyn no its no bigger just a closeup to give the illusion and make me appear a good grower!!

A lovely thing though.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jim McKenney on March 23, 2009, 06:45:12 PM: I seem to remember reading in an old book that Tropaeolum peltophorum (T. lobbianum) played a part in the development of garden nasturtiums. Can anyone confirm that?

Do the garden nasturtiums we call T. majus correspond to a true wild species, or is this T. majus the product of ancient hybridization and selection?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on March 24, 2009, 07:59:23 PM: Jean-Patrick, what a very nice trop that was totally unknown to me. Is it annual or perennial?

Jim, T. majus is a true species.
Here on Madeira it is everywhere... All waste grounds around the island near the sea with no exception have it, a true plague, but i love it. On summer it totally vanishes and reappears by the first rains of autumn.

This picture might seemed to be taken on a garden, but it was not ;)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jim McKenney on March 24, 2009, 08:05:03 PM: Thanks, Mike. I wish I could get it to grow like that here!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ezeiza on March 25, 2009, 12:54:13 PM: Quote from: Michael on March 24, 2009, 07:59:23 PM
Jean-Patrick, what a very nice trop that was totally unknown to me. Is it annual or perennial?

Jim, T. majus is a true species.
Here on Madeira it is everywhere... All waste grounds around the island near the sea with no exception have it, a true plague, but i love it. On summer it totally vanishes and reappears by the first rains of autumn.

Michael, in dryish areas is a perennial.

As for its invasive habit, if you can't beat it, eat it! Inmature seed capsules can be pickled as a substitute for caper. You have millions to try!

Best
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 25, 2009, 09:26:21 PM: We have it here too Michael, growing near the sea in frost-free places where it flowers almost all year round. In cooler spots it is frosted right off but there are always so many seeds that it pops up again in spring.

Does anyone grow the old form 'Empress of India' which is a little bushy plant rather than a rampant climber/twiner? I love its blue-black leaves and the deep, deep red flowers which are just about double. I've lost mine now and the one being sold locally as E of I has much looser, greener leaves and lighter, semi double red flowers, nothing like so good as the proper thing. :'( I always propagated mine from cuttings but didn't a couple of years ago and then had the plants frosted. That, of course, was the year when I didn't collect seed for re-sowing.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: maggiepie on March 25, 2009, 09:55:40 PM: Quote from: Lesley Cox on March 25, 2009, 09:26:21 PM

Does anyone grow the old form 'Empress of India' which is a little bushy plant rather than a rampant climber/twiner? I love its blue-black leaves and the deep, deep red flowers which are just about double. I've lost mine now and the one being sold locally as E of I has much looser, greener leaves and lighter, semi double red flowers, nothing like so good as the proper thing. :'( I always propagated mine from cuttings but didn't a couple of years ago and then had the plants frosted. That, of course, was the year when I didn't collect seed for re-sowing.

Lesley, do you have a pic of this plant?
It sounds wonderful, did you perhaps send seed to friends who could return the favour?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 25, 2009, 10:51:24 PM: Alas, I don't have a picture and though I spread the seed around quite widely, most people seem to have lost it now as well. I'll keep a look out though. It was great in hanging baskets.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: maggiepie on March 25, 2009, 11:28:27 PM: Quote from: Lesley Cox on March 25, 2009, 10:51:24 PM
Alas, I don't have a picture and though I spread the seed around quite widely, most people seem to have lost it now as well. I'll keep a look out though. It was great in hanging baskets.

Strange, I fired off a blank.

Gee, I wonder what I had meant to say.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on March 26, 2009, 11:05:15 AM: Wow, Michael, the photo is scary, reminding me of the sight of areas in southern france covered with Ipomoea indica !
Well, at least you can have nasturium flowers in your salad every day :-)

kind regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 27, 2009, 06:08:16 AM: Hello,

Lesley: I don't personnally have "Empress of India" seeds but you might browse in the Chiltern seeds catalogue. They list it together with old nasturtium cultivars ( www.chilternseeds.co.uk )

Eseiza: Tropaeolum Peltophorum is an annual species. The seeds I've sown were given to me by the BG in Lyon ( FRANCE ). It can reach metres in a greenhouseand flower profusely. In my small experience it has flowered very late in a pot ( on my balcony ) in autumn. Tropaeolum Pentaphyllum is a perennial one? As Tropaeolum Tricolor it produces tubers and offsets. Seeds are rarely offered and it' a much better option to get tubers. This is also a huge plant which can grow up to 6 metres or more in a greenhouse. Flowers are-in my opinion-extraordinary.

Jim: Tropaeolum Peltophorum has been used for crossings in the very beginning but , according to Benkt SPARRE, Tropaeolum Minus has been much more involved for hybridization.

Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Michael on March 28, 2009, 09:40:05 AM: Quote from: mickeymuc on March 26, 2009, 11:05:15 AM
Wow, Michael, the photo is scary, reminding me of the sight of areas in southern france covered with Ipomoea indica !
Well, at least you can have nasturium flowers in your salad every day :-)

We also have that Ipomoea growing here. Its interesting t notice that tropaeolum seems to like flat ground and that ipomoea prefers walls and cliffs. I guess in a few million of years there will be an endemic trop and ipo from Madeira :P
Then the family Tropaeolaceae will not be exclusive from South America anymore ;)

Jean, i presume T. peltophorum is grown the same way as T. majus?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 28, 2009, 06:08:40 PM: Quote from: Michael on March 28, 2009, 09:40:05 AM
Quote from: mickeymuc on March 26, 2009, 11:05:15 AM
Wow, Michael, the photo is scary, reminding me of the sight of areas in southern france covered with Ipomoea indica !
Well, at least you can have nasturium flowers in your salad every day :-)

We also have that Ipomoea growing here. Its interesting t notice that tropaeolum seems to like flat ground and that ipomoea prefers walls and cliffs. I guess in a few million of years there will be an endemic trop and ipo from Madeira :P
Then the family Tropaeolaceae will not be exclusive from South America anymore ;)

Jean, i presume T. peltophorum is grown the same way as T. majus?

Yes, Tropaeolum Peltophorum as an annual follows the same seasonnal growth. But be aware of the fact that it's germination is probably more difficult. It would be advisable to sow it early in the season if you own a greenhouse and add the traditional nasturtium sowing in May / June when the weather becomes adequate.
Be careful if ordering this species ( I've tried the one listed by Chiltern Seeds a few years ago but it was not true to species ). I don't know of a reliable seed source at present.

Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 31, 2009, 12:34:57 AM: Thank you Jean-Patrick. I see that Chiltern DOES list Empress of India and it sounds reasonably true, though I would have emphasized the very dark leaves. But they also have a couple of other very interesting-sounding forms. I'll send them an order.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on March 31, 2009, 11:23:37 PM: Hello,
Here are some nice photos of Tropaeolum Peltophorum taken in the greenhouse of the BG of LYON last year showing how variable the flowers could be...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 09, 2009, 09:47:09 PM: Hello,
Apart from uncommon tropaeolum species, I'm also interested in the double flowered forms of Tr majus.
I've purchased Tr Hermine Grashoff, Margaret Long & Darjeeling Gold. But I've also heard of Tr Apricot Twist but the colour of the flowers seem to be very close to those of Margaret Long. Is it a different species? Does anyone can give more information?
Many thanks
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ezeiza on April 11, 2009, 08:33:37 PM: Jean-Patrick:

For the sanity of your mind and having your important task of establishing a National Collection, be cautious with the material you are adding to your holdings. There are forms of Troapeolum majus that can pass virus on IN THE SEED. They are sold as "marbled" forms and it seems the public like the "pretty markings". Viruses in Tropaeolum are very powerful, like the ones known to affect aroids like Xanthosoma, Zantedeschia, with serious distortion and defroming of the foliage.

A routine aphid control program is necessary.

best
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 11, 2009, 09:58:46 PM: Hi Alberto,
Thanks for your warnings about Tr Majus. I want to gather as many species as I can BUT excluding the Tr Majus hybrids. It would be quite impossible to do when thinking of the number of clones available. And I'll be satisfied with a little more than 80 species ( sometimes with hybrid forms ) to find . The double flowered forms I've listed in my previous post are all sterile and only reproduced by cuttings. And they are so nice... But I suppose there might also be a slight risk of viruses in all the other rare annuals ?
Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on April 16, 2009, 10:00:17 PM: Hi there,

Today I noticed the first open flower in T. argentinum - at first I was not even sure if what I see was all of the flower, but it seems that's it - small but I still like it :-)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on April 17, 2009, 12:24:22 AM: Magnificent 'eyebrows' :o ;D 8)

Fine pic Michael. Is this a small species?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on April 17, 2009, 06:49:52 AM: Hi Ashley,

I grow it the first year, but I think it will be a large one, even in a small pot the leaves are about 5 cm wide, resembling those of T. peregrinum. At the moment the plant is about 60 cm high, but as it is summer growing I expect it to get a lot higher within the next months.
I'll keep you updated :-)

Kind regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on April 17, 2009, 12:18:31 PM: Hi there

I thought that I would add a couple of comments on some recent posts. Firstly on T. lepidum and T. hookerianum austropurpureum. A few years ago I grew both of these from seed (the first from Plant World Seeds and the second from J. Watson). They both flowered at the same time and were identical. I have enclosed a photo of what I now just call T. hookerianum austropurpureum which is flowering in my greenhouse at present.

[attachthumb=1]

Secondly with regard to T. x tenuirostre. This is, as you would expect, variable. I have two versions. I have included pictures of T. brachyceras, T. tricolor (correct name as in monograph) and one version of T. x tenuirostre. All are in flower at present.

[attachthumb=2]

[attachthumb=3]

[attachthumb=4]

I am continuing to grow an increasing number of species and would hope to post more pictures over the next few months.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on April 17, 2009, 12:39:34 PM: Quote from: Steven McFarlane on April 17, 2009, 12:18:31 PM
I thought that I would add a couple of comments on some recent posts. Firstly on T. lepidum and T. hookerianum austropurpureum. A few years ago I grew both of these from seed (the first from Plant World Seeds and the second from J. Watson). They both flowered at the same time and were identical. I have enclosed a photo of what I now just call T. hookerianum austropurpureum which is flowering in my greenhouse at present.

Very interesting Steven. Both are listed on The International Plant Names Index (http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantnamesearchpage.do) & Kew's ePic (http://epic.kew.org/searchepic/searchpage.do). Do you think they're synonyms or that the Plant World material is wrong?

Here (http://www.fundacionraphilippi.cl/CHILENATURAL.html) lepidum is considered a synonym of azureum ??? and earlier in this thread (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1463.msg70633;topicseen#msg70633) when listed the species he grows Jean-Patrick included lepidum in inverted commas. Maybe you can explain Jean-Patrick?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 17, 2009, 11:19:41 PM: Hi everybody,
I'm really not an expert in tropaeolum ( but few of us are... ). I've grown Tr. "lepidum" from Plant world seeds and in fact it seems to be the same plant as Tr. hookerianum ssp austropurpureum. I've grown the latter only from seeds ( JJA, SRGC & AGS exchanges ). This year I've got flowers from the 2 species. Clearly no big difference BUT I noticed some variation in the spur of the flowers.
I think we can't be sure of what we are growing with some species ( Tr brachyceras, Tr beuthii ). I've put lepidum in commas because I still don't know whether it's a true species or not. Having a look in SPARRE's monography I find NO clear description of the plant referred to as Tr lepidum (except that it's considered a variation of Tr azureum ). The seeds offered by Plant World may well be something different. There's no identification problem with Tr tricolor, Tr pentaphyllum, for example.
Considering Tr brachyceras, everything gets difficult: you may have a look at different pictures which will show different plants. Richard CLIFTON ( of the geraniaceae group ) wrote about this and emphasized the fact that the flowers of this species have SHORT spurs ( as shown in SPARRE's monography ). I personnally purchased 2 tubers from 2 different sources and none of them matched the taxonomic description. So I'm still looking for the REAL Tr brachyceras. Adding to this that Tr brachyceras may hybridize with other species ( Tr beuthii or Tr tricolor as Steven Mc FARLANE explained about Tr X tenuirostre ) and it might be a challenge naming the plants correctly.
I'll put some photos later on.
Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on April 18, 2009, 10:12:43 AM: Many thanks for those comments Jean-Patrick.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on April 18, 2009, 03:06:51 PM: Hello again

There is no doubt that identifying Trops. can be a real challenge. My original plants of T. hookerianum austropurpureum were grown from J. Watson's wild collected seeds but I have no idea about the Plant World Seeds material. As to T. beuthii, I also originally grew this from wild collected seed and I have always considered it a more attractive species than T. brachyceras having larger and much more open flowers. I have included a photo I took a few years ago as in the cold west of Scotland many of my plants have still to flower this year.

[attachthumb=1]
Tropaeolum beuthii

If you want a further puzzle try this one. Last year I became aware of two plants both being desribed as T. smithii. The first was from seed collected by Michael Wickenden in South America. Michael is the owner of Cally Gardens Nursery in south west Scotland. In Cally it grew well outdoors in the summer and rampantly in a greenhouse right through the winter. The picture is from my only plant.

[attachthumb=2]
Tropaeolum smithii Cally

The second plant was from Gary Fisher of Cotswald Garden Flowers and came from a source in Germany. Gary gave me a few seedlings of which one survived, flowered and produced a few seeds. I have included a picture. Sadly this plant did not survive the winter and none of the seeds have as yet appeared above ground. Gary no longer has any of "his" smithii but thinks that this plant is the one listed by Chiltern Seeds.

[attachthumb=3]
Tropaeolum smithii CGF

Finally, for now, I thought you might be interested in a sad story. Many years ago I purchased seed of T. nubigenum from J. Watson. It grew year after year but never produced a flower. Last year it flowered but produced no seed and, you've guessed, died. I have included a picture as my only surviving memory.

[attachthumb=4]
Tropaeolum nubigenum
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 18, 2009, 10:06:06 PM: Hi,
Many thanks Steven for your extraordinary photos. I can add one comment. I personnally contacted Gary FISHER last year about Tr SMITHII, but couldn't obtain any seedling( all of them sold ).Then ( I don't remember how I got the information ) I've contacted Michael WICKENDEN of Cally gardens and he told me he had sold all hisTr SMITHII 2008 seed crop to CHILTERN SEEDS. So you'll expect to have the "Cally Tr SMITHII" when ordering.
By now I have a few pics not as interesting as those of Steven Mc FARLANE:
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on April 19, 2009, 03:17:34 PM: Wonderful pix Steven and Jean-Patrick. I particularly like that Tropaeolum smithii Cally so must order from Chiltern Seeds & see what results.

This came as T. brachyceras from the SRGC 2007 seedex but is clearly different from both your forms. If anything it looks closer to the T. beuthii you showed Steven, except that the spur is angled upward. Any thoughts?

I look forward to more pictures and comments on taxonomy.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on June 01, 2009, 02:01:11 PM: The one above resembles T. 'lepidum' / hookerianum var. austropurpureum in general flower size, structure, arrangement (slightly bunched along the stem) and spur so might be T. hookerianum var. hookerianum rather than brachyceras.

Here's another, T. sessilifolium FW11255, sown last October but which has shown poor germination so far (2/5). Unfortunately the other seedling lacked chlorophyll so eventually died.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on June 01, 2009, 10:08:39 PM: Nice Trops, Ashley. T. brachyceras has just shot here, so will check out it's flowers and see which it looks most like. I rather like that sessifolia as well.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Mike Ireland on June 02, 2009, 09:28:47 PM: Tropaeolum azureum flowering last week, hoping seed will set this year.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on June 02, 2009, 09:36:52 PM: That's looking good, Mike. Are you giving a helping hand with a paintbrush to aid pollination?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Mike Ireland on June 02, 2009, 09:38:14 PM: Maggie I thought this year I would try a stiff yard brush, keeping fingers crossed.

Mike
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on June 02, 2009, 09:42:48 PM: Quote from: Mike Ireland on June 02, 2009, 09:38:14 PM
Maggie I thought this year I would try a stiff yard brush, keeping fingers crossed.

Mike
Ah, trying to frighten the poor thing into setting seed, eh? :o ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 03, 2009, 05:05:46 AM: A fabulous plant Mike and wonderful picture. I'll have to jolly mine along a bit. :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on June 03, 2009, 06:18:43 AM: Mike,

Stunning!! I saw it in person when visiting Otto back in September, and realised that all these wonderful photos do it justice. Gorgeous!!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on June 03, 2009, 09:27:16 AM: Quote from: Mike Ireland on June 02, 2009, 09:28:47 PM
Tropaeolum azureum flowering last week, hoping seed will set this year.
Wow! Mike, that is a very floriferous plant! :o
Best in show! ;D
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on June 09, 2009, 11:33:32 AM: "Tropaeolum azureum flowering last week, hoping seed will set this year."

After many years of trying I have one little seedling - at last! The little tyke is growing like the blazes and is nearly 40cm long after only a few weeks since germination. It is growing in a deep tray accompanied by several Sandersonia seedlings which have refused to go dormant this year - it's a pity they grow in opposite seasons as the two flowering together would be spiffing.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on June 09, 2009, 12:00:39 PM: Rogan,

I grow the Sandersonia, but can only imagine what a T. azureum would look like twining through it. That would be a pretty spectacular combination I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on June 09, 2009, 01:37:01 PM: Keep the seedling growing for as long as you possibly can, Rogan. the bigger its little tuber gets before its first dormancy, the better.
Don't let it get TOO dessicated when it does go dormant.
In future years, try pinching out the growing tip at about four inches long to encourage bushy growth.... it makes for a wonderful display of flowers.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Roma on June 09, 2009, 11:23:10 PM: Tropaeolum hybrid from SRGC seed. Only one seed germinated but is growing well not like the Tropaeolum azureum which may be the one which germinated last year or another from the same batch of seed.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 10, 2009, 01:07:08 AM: A different and most attractive colour for a Tropaeolum Roma.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on June 10, 2009, 07:16:41 AM: Roma,

Very nice. Was it supposed to be a hybrid, or was it just not quite right for the given species? I would be interested to know what the parents of it were. Love the colour and form to it. Thanks for the pic. :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Roma on June 10, 2009, 08:51:51 PM: Paul,

The tropaeolum was grown from SRGC seed as Tropaeolum hybrids. I don't remember how many seeds there were but only one germinated.
Steve McFarlane posted pictures of his own tropaeolum hybrids on page 5 of this topic so he may have sent in the seed .
I hope more germinate next year and reappear more reliably than T's azureum and hookerianum ssp. astropurpureum.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 10, 2009, 10:17:12 PM: Hi,
What an extraordinary Tr Azureum...Congratulations Mike! I wish mine had flowered like that...This year, I've been luckier with young seedlings than with tubers ( which grew but failed to bloom for some obscure reason ).
Roma's pic is really wonderful. Like the ones shown by Steven Mc Farlane. I'll post interesting one soon. I've read that these hybrids are mainly from crosses between Tr Hookerianum ( ssp Austropurpureum probably ) and Tr Beuthii. If you have a close look at the flower, the petals shape refer to the former while the spur looks like the latter. Maybe Steven Mc Farlane can help?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on June 11, 2009, 10:41:58 AM: Thanks for the cultivation advice re. T. azureum, Maggi - I don't think I've quite got the heart to "...pinch out the growing tip" just yet though and, as you suggest, do it in later years - if I can keep it alive that long, of course!?

Do you think it would be happier growing in a relatively wide tray as opposed to a narrow pot? I know that Sandersonia, e.g., seems to be much happier if grown that way and also appreciates a bit of moisture throughout the year - not that I'm suggesting they are related at all, but at a stretch of the imagination one could say they do occupy similar habitats in nature.

Here in SA I can buy large plastic trays that are approximately 30 x 40 x 10cm deep which make ideal homes for a wide variety of plants - primroses, cyclamen, miniature daffs all go dilly in them.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Mike Ireland on June 11, 2009, 01:10:00 PM: My Tropaeolum azureum is setting seed. Daft question, but would anyone like some seed? Email me please.

Mike
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on June 11, 2009, 01:22:13 PM: Yes! Yes! Pick me! Pick Me!!

(I'm getting flashbacks to childhood when waiting to be picked for class sports teams. ;D Hopefully I do better at this one.... usually I was the fat kid that was picked last! ::))

That all translates to.... "Yes, Mike. I would be most interested in some seed if you happen to be able to spare a few." ;)

Thanks in anticipation.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on June 13, 2009, 12:27:03 PM: Hi

Just a little note. Firstly Roma I think that your Hybrid seed probably came from Rosemary Wilson as I know that she sent seed to both AGS and SRGC exchanges. My second generation of hybrids mostly seem to have a touch of tricolor in them. Few have been very different but this one is rather attractive.

[attachthumb=1]

At present I have a number of tender species (sorry rock gardeners) in growth
T. moritzianum
T. smithii (Cally type)
T. peregrinum
T. fintelmanii olmosense (from seed given to me by Harry Hay)
T.peltophorum ( from seed given to me by Jean-Patrick Agier)
All are growing well and I will post pictures later in the summer.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on June 13, 2009, 12:42:12 PM: Nice hybrid you have there, Steven. We'll look forward to seeing your "tender types " later .
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on June 13, 2009, 12:54:30 PM: Oooh, Steven. That little hybrid is lovely. Looking forward to seeing pics of the others you mentioned too, when you have flowers on them. Here in the southern hemisphere I have tricolor and brachyceras come into growth recently that should flower soon.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: maggiepie on June 13, 2009, 04:47:57 PM: This is my babbie Tropaeolum tricolor, unfortunately I broke one of the flowers when I picked it up to take a pic :'(

Not sure what I am supposed to do with it, can it be repotted at this stage?
The seeds came from the SRGC seedex this year and all 5 germinated ;D
I didn't realize it would flower so soon.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on June 13, 2009, 04:57:39 PM: You could pot t it on carefully, helen, to give it more room and food....It'll grow for quite a bit yet and will likely go on to give you lots more flowers. Wait thill they get grown up....you'll have hundreds of flowers!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: maggiepie on June 13, 2009, 05:01:02 PM: Thanks Maggi, needless to say I am totally thrilled ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 24, 2009, 03:32:44 PM: Hi,
The seed exchanges are full of surprises. The seeds supplied are not sometimes what you're expecting. That was the case with this batch of seeds labelled as Tr. BEUTHII. In fact it was something different which flowered. Maybe the seed donor thought it was correctly named and the plants have cross pollinated spontaneously before harvesting the seeds ( thanks to the bees & other pollinators ) But indeed I really don't mind for these hybrids are much more interesting!!!
The one with brownish flowers gave 2 seeds. The second hybrid had very light yellow flowers ( whih is not so obvious on the pic ). I still don't have checked if tubers have been produced but I really hope so!!!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 24, 2009, 09:53:20 PM: A very well-chosen background for the browny one J-P ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on June 24, 2009, 10:46:23 PM: I love both of them. Interesting colours, that is for sure.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 01, 2009, 02:26:53 PM: We are now waiting for some interesting pics promised by Steven Mc Farlane. I also have some but some species seem to be reluctant in germinating. Last year some Tr Fintelmannii ssp Olmosense waited till October to appear, produced some seeds ( hand pollinated ) and died early 2009. I don't have any green house so that's why the story ended like that...I'm still waiting for these beauties to decide to germinate. One pic taken Autumn 2007 ( from a young seedling given by a BG.
Other less showy plants from early spring.
I currently have one Tr Huigrense seedling which I strongly hope to put to flower ( end of summer ? ) if I'm lucky enough...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on July 03, 2009, 12:16:39 PM: Hi

My various tender species are doing well. T. peregrinum and T. smithii (Cally) are in flower. T. moritzianum is in bud and the other two are growing rapidly. I will post pictures as soon as I can.
On another tack I was wondering if all of you have seen the pictures of the white azureum at http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/FloraEnglish/HighResPages/EH0553A.htm
It certainly made my mouth water.
Another set of wonderful images,this time of T. hybrids, can be found at
http://homepage2.nifty.com/nyandora/
Look at the first couple of links under NEW!! This will lead you to many, many images. There are however some beautiful flowers and you cannot but wonder at the effort put in by the person who runs the website.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Mike Ireland on July 04, 2009, 09:17:05 PM: My pot grown plants of Tropaeolum tricolorum have completely finished flowering and have died right back but a plant in my raised bed in the alpine house is again giving some shade on the south side. This works very well as natural shading.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 04, 2009, 10:07:00 PM: The white T. azureum is a beauty all right, but are we not perverse to want a white form of such a beautiful blue flower, especially when red, oranges and yellows are the "norm" for the genus? :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on July 04, 2009, 10:28:56 PM: Mike, what a super Trop. tricolorum, showing just how floriferous it can be.... very classy natural shading, eh? !!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 06, 2009, 05:11:50 AM: Quote from: Steven McFarlane on July 03, 2009, 12:16:39 PM
Hi

My various tender species are doing well. T. peregrinum and T. smithii (Cally) are in flower. T. moritzianum is in bud and the other two are growing rapidly. I will post pictures as soon as I can.
On another tack I was wondering if all of you have seen the pictures of the white azureum at http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/FloraEnglish/HighResPages/EH0553A.htm
It certainly made my mouth water.
Another set of wonderful images,this time of T. hybrids, can be found at
http://homepage2.nifty.com/nyandora/
Look at the first couple of links under NEW!! This will lead you to many, many images. There are however some beautiful flowers and you cannot but wonder at the effort put in by the person who runs the website.

Steven,
I was stunned by the pics on the first link but was absolutely gob-smacked by the second link! :o :o :o Can you get it translated or do you who runs the site?

Lesley,
think "white tecophilea"
;D
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on July 06, 2009, 10:26:24 AM: Quote from: Mike Ireland on July 04, 2009, 09:17:05 PM
My pot grown plants of Tropaeolum tricolorum have completely finished flowering and have died right back but a plant in my raised bed in the alpine house is again giving some shade on the south side. This works very well as natural shading.

Gloriuos Mike !!! Just glorious !! :o

Beats any shade netting... ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 06, 2009, 09:56:37 PM: The second link is a frustration for me as most of the text is in some odd code of letters, numbers, symbols. Is this HTML? Every time I click on a link it goes right back to the home page so I can get no further and don't know what it all means anyway. >:( Lower text is just little square boxes ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on July 06, 2009, 10:07:31 PM: Lesley, the same for me.... I think it is a Japanese site and our pcs don't "read" the characters. :-\
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rodger Whitlock on July 07, 2009, 05:42:53 AM: Quote from: Maggi Young on July 06, 2009, 10:07:31 PM
Lesley, the same for me.... I think it is a Japanese site and our pcs don't "read" the characters. :-\

The problem may be as simple as not having Japanese fonts on your system, but under Windows you must also enable "complex script rendering" to see Chinese, Japanese, and many other scripts properly rendered.

I started making the switch to Ubuntu Linux two years ago and find its easy handling of unusual writing systems a real treat, as well as the wide range of scripts supported by standard installed fonts. I can't read Georgian or Japanese or Hindi, but at least the characters are properly displayed with no fuss.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 07, 2009, 09:12:08 AM: Quote from: Lesley Cox on July 06, 2009, 09:56:37 PM
The second link is a frustration for me as most of the text is in some odd code of letters, numbers, symbols. Is this HTML? Every time I click on a link it goes right back to the home page so I can get no further and don't know what it all means anyway. >:( Lower text is just little square boxes ??? ??? ???
Hi Lesley,
what I did was open the page and in the side bar on the left there is the latin name "Tropaeoleum" directly under that is a box with some Japanese/Chinese/Korean(?) script "年度栽培" following the number "2008" - this is the link to hit. It opens to a table with different headings of Trop species and hybrids. Hit on one of the names and this opens a page showing the story of that plant/s from seed to flower to seed again! It's amazing and a sign of real devotion/fanaticism!
good luck!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Brian Ellis on July 07, 2009, 09:23:31 AM: 2008年度栽培

Means Year of Culivation in the Simplified Chinese Han script (courtesy of translator widget on Mac). What a site!!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on July 07, 2009, 01:12:35 PM: For anyone who misses our references, we are talking about this website:
http://homepage2.nifty.com/nyandora/
This is an extraordinary site with valuable photographic records of seed type, germination habit etc etc etc...... :o 8)
Do we know whether this is the work of one person or a group of enthusiasts? A labour of love.... made with condierable thoroughness. 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on July 07, 2009, 01:44:37 PM: Hi

To the best of my knowledge the site is run by Emiko Tsujii but sadly I don't have any further information.

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 07, 2009, 11:45:09 PM: Hi,
Emiko Tsujii has really an extraordinary site. That emphasizes the fact that it might be now so difficult to identify one plant. As Rosemary Wilson does, she grows hundreds of hybrid plants and it might be the very beginning of Tropaeolum hybridization. Lots of flower hues so delicate and so bright... and so attacting we want to grow as many as possible. But she must have a huge greenhouse probably dedicated to Tropaeolum. I'm feeling very humble....
Lesley, wouldn't you really want to grow a white Tr Azureum? an orange Tr Peregrinum ? or own a Tr Incisum collection ( with as many flower colour as possible )? That would be really fantastic!!!
Let's begin to hybridize!!!
( I've croos-pollinated my Brick-orange Tropaeolum with Tr Azureum: 2 seeds gathered. I'll see what happens next year )
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 08, 2009, 10:45:27 PM: Yes Jean-Patrick, of course I would like a white T. azureum and the others, just as I love my white gentians and other white forms. But why are we not content with the original colours? I suppose it's that urge all mankind has to go further, do something different and more challenging and in my case, a white Tripaeolum azureum is more likely to be achieved that the top of Everest. ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on July 09, 2009, 12:19:51 AM: Lesley,

Just think how many little white things with green markings there are, so many so subtly different to each other that you can't tell them apart unless you had the original name..... now a white flower as opposed to a blue flower seems quite "normal" for mankind to look at as interesting, doesn't it? At least those are two totally different colours, instead of a slightly different shape to the green markings, with perhaps slightly longer/shorter/thicker long white outside bits, etc. ;)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mark smyth on July 15, 2009, 09:19:31 PM: Can I plant my T. tricolorum outside where they can climb in to a birch tree?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on July 15, 2009, 09:50:57 PM: You could give it a try, Mark. You don't get TOO cold there and we are finding them hardy enough this last year when a boxful were outside the whole winter and got well frozwn on several occasions.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mark smyth on July 15, 2009, 09:53:23 PM: mine were frozen also because they spent all winter outside in a pot. I could plant them beside the house, south facing, and let them grow up a trellis
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on July 15, 2009, 09:57:46 PM: I'd give that a try, Mark..... but what about planting the corms under a slab or some such, where they can be protected a bit but still come out and reach the tree?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on July 15, 2009, 11:38:43 PM: Mark,

How cold do you get in winter? I have T. tricolor outside in 8 inch black plastic pots with a bamboo "wigwam" arrangement and they've never been affected by cold. Only -8 or -9'C though, so I can't recall how that relates to your winters (I've grown them for more than 10 years, so not just a fluke). The pot would magnify the cold at tuber level significantly though.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mark smyth on July 15, 2009, 11:51:54 PM: Our winter is very mild and rarely dips lower than -4 or -5. This usually doesnt happen until January or February
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on July 16, 2009, 01:35:49 AM: Thanks Mark. I couldn't remember how cold you got, so I had to ask rather than make any assumptions. ;D You should have no problem at all with -4 or -5 with this Trop tricolor, unless you had a more tropical strain of them or something? We had a -6'C out of the blue here a month or more ago, with quite young shoots on the Trop tricolor and it didn't even touch them. This was with no prior frosts at all (a lot of things got messed up by it, because normally there would be minor frosts before we had anything near that major). I noticed this morning that one of the pots has buds on it. So cold shouldn't be a problem at all for them, assuming yours have the same hardiness as mine?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 21, 2009, 10:00:36 PM: Hello,
I have an old problem with Tr Tuberosum. I grow it in a deep pot. As for the previous years it grew in spring but then began to have some stems withering. Many tubers have rot previously ( over watering...) I really don't know what to do with it. I've put it in a sheltered plot in semi-shade protected from strong winds. It is more likely now to be "just surviving" ( one or two little stems with dried leaves ). Am I watering too much? or not enough? It would certainly grow better in the open ground, just like potatoes... Not expecting any flower for this year ( once again...)
Any advice?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Brian Ellis on July 21, 2009, 10:37:17 PM: Hello Jean-Patrick,

My Tropaeolum tuberosum 'Ken Aslet' has made lots of tubers over the years. It grows in the shelter of a Garrya and last winter quite a number rotted, but it still came up in the Spring and is now flowering. I have one in the glasshouse for insurance every winter just in case! Left outside it is never watered, except by rain so I guess that yes, you may well be overwatering - or need a more free draining compost. Are you unable to put a tuber outside? I can certainly let you have a couple of tubers of 'Ken Aslet' next year if you would like them.

Hope you can get it sorted out.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on July 22, 2009, 12:02:10 PM: Hi

Just a couple of comments on Trop. tuberosum.

I have grown Ken Aslett outside for a number of years and it is only watered when it rains. In the West of Scotland this means it is watered very regularly. Tubers near to the surface occasionally rot due to frost but those buried more deeply seem fine.

[attachthumb=1]

My second comment is with regard to Trop. tuberosum silvestris. I have also grown this plant, with varying degrees of success, for a number of years. In my experience it emerges very late (at present two or three 10cm. shoots), never comes up in the same place twice and has no real tubers. I have often wondered how closely related the two forms are. I would appreciate any thoughts you might have.

[attachthumb=2]

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on July 23, 2009, 08:28:45 AM: This is a dumb question as I was a little silly when I planted my T. azureum and T. h. austropurpureum seed - I mixed them up! Now I have one (very) vigorous seedling scrambling everywhere and I have no idea which it is! Now back to my question - is it possible to tell them apart just by their leaves when they are fairly young? ::)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 23, 2009, 09:19:01 AM: Quote from: Rogan on July 23, 2009, 08:28:45 AM
This is a dumb question as I was a little silly when I planted my T. azureum and T. h. austropurpureum seed - I mixed them up! Now I have one (very) vigorous seedling scrambling everywhere and I have no idea which it is! Now back to my question - is it possible to tell them apart just by their leaves when they are fairly young? ::)
Can you post a pic?
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on July 23, 2009, 09:35:59 AM: Hi Rogan

Perhaps these two pictures will help. As you can see the leaf shapes are quite distinct.

T.azureum
[attachthumb=1]

T. hookerianum austropurpureum
[attachthumb=2]

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on July 23, 2009, 10:30:42 AM: Thanks Steven, that settles it then - I've definitely got T. h. austropurp. I enjoyed your pictures too - thanks.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Brian Ellis on July 23, 2009, 10:40:27 AM: Quote
This is a dumb question

...but the good thing about this forum Rogan is that it doesn't matter, we all ask them at some point and someone is always kind enough to answer. Hooray for the forum 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on July 23, 2009, 12:57:20 PM: Steven,

Your azureum has much more spidery leaves than some of the others posted within this topic. I haven't checked the whole topic, but the first few of pages show a variance in leaf forms. In particular there is a pic taken at Otto's place.....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1463.msg58305#msg58305
... that shows leaves much more like those you have shown as the definition austropurpureum. I also note that some of Ian's pics in the bulblogs (some links on page 3 of this topic) show much more rounded leaflets etc. So depending where Rogan got his seed from may determine what sort of leaf form he has? Of course if Rogan got his seed from you then he can be pretty certain which is which? ;D

Sorry to raise this, but I had a clear "picture" in my mind of Otto's from when I was down there visiting last September, and I didn't recall spidery leaves like in your pic. This either means that Otto's and some others shown elsewhere are hybrids, or else there is variability as to leaf form.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 23, 2009, 10:45:34 PM: Hi everybody
Yes Paul, I totally agree with you. I personnally had Tr Azureum seedlings which had very different leave shape and I have one tuber which produces the "usual" rounded leaves. The flower shape is also a bit different. But maybe the leaf shape might change on one plant depending on growing conditions? Could this be possible Steven? That makes me get back to the problematic species Tr Lepidum which is probably one of the Tr Azureum forms but has yet to be botanically described.
In fact the most beautiful Tr Azureum are -to me- those with very thin leaflets.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 23, 2009, 10:54:11 PM: Quote from: Brian Ellis on July 21, 2009, 10:37:17 PM
Hello Jean-Patrick,

My Tropaeolum tuberosum 'Ken Aslet' has made lots of tubers over the years. It grows in the shelter of a Garrya and last winter quite a number rotted, but it still came up in the Spring and is now flowering. I have one in the glasshouse for insurance every winter just in case! Left outside it is never watered, except by rain so I guess that yes, you may well be overwatering - or need a more free draining compost. Are you unable to put a tuber outside? I can certainly let you have a couple of tubers of 'Ken Aslet' next year if you would like them.

Hope you can get it sorted out.

Thanks Brian & Steven for advice
Yes I can't help from watering plants-always thinking or fearing they're about to get dried out. What do Tr Tuberosum look like when they get thirsty?
I'll try to save what can be saved and NOT water when I would like to...

Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on July 24, 2009, 08:28:50 AM: Well, thanks guys (I think...) - now I'm really confused! I'll just have to wait for the flowers - a mystery till the very end! Hopefully a few more will germinate in the foreseeable future giving me seedlings of both species. The seeds came from Jim and Jenny Archibald - and it's the first time ever I've been able to germinate either of these two species.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on July 24, 2009, 01:32:16 PM: Rogan, thegood news is that you should not have to wait too long before you get the flowers...... once they are growing they get into flower quite soon! :D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on July 27, 2009, 08:47:55 AM: "...once they are growing they get into flower quite soon!"

Thanks for that good news Maggi, the little thing's growing as if its life depends on it! I suppose it feels the approach of our hot summer and wants to get all its growing done during the cool winter weather. Hopefully a flower bud or two will be the reward for my patience - are they capable of flowering in one year from seed?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on July 27, 2009, 01:19:46 PM: Quote
are they capable of flowering in one year from seed?

They don't always... but they can do! :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on July 27, 2009, 01:20:33 PM: Rogan,

I think my T. brachyceras flowered in it's first year from seed, and given my conditions were probably far from ideal I would imagine that it would have done it far earlier and far heavier for others growing it. I don't know for the species you mention, but they do grow very quickly their first year, so I think the answer should be Yes. If not, they should the next season.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 28, 2009, 10:38:20 PM: Hi Rogan,
Most Chilean species-as Maggi wrote- are capable of flowering in their first year. BUT they are not all able to produce seeds or tubers. It depends on so many factors( the bees the weather ... ). This year I've got a good number of small tubers from seedlings and this hasn't been the case last year...
Maggi gave us some useful advice earlier in this topic.
Good luck with your Tropaeolum!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on August 03, 2009, 08:05:40 AM: "Rogan, thegood news is that you should not have to wait too long before you get the flowers...... once they are growing they get into flower quite soon! "

Yes! They are flower buds - still very small though...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on August 03, 2009, 10:05:54 AM: yippee! " Progress... she is being made!"
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on August 05, 2009, 01:29:05 PM: Hi ladies and gents. I'm new to the forum and am very happy to have discovered this place. I'm making my first post in this thread because I'm an aspiring collector of the genus Tropaeolum. I am currently growing five species and am waiting on germination of four more. I'm in Southern Australia so it's late winter here now. It's a nervous time checking the pots daily for signs of germination. I've been very successful germinating Tropaeolum and maintaining the tubers year after year.

Species I have growing now are:

T.tricolor
T.brachyceras
T.peregrinum (annual)
T.pentaphyllum
T.azureum

Species I'm waiting for germination from are:

T.ciliatum
T.speciosum
T.lepidum
T.polyphyllum

I'm attaching a few pictures taken last spring of my plants. Sorry these aren't hosted off-site, or nicely coded for thumbnails. I'm just learning, be patient with me. :)

pix are :
T_tricolor.jpg
T_brachyceras.jpg
T_pentaphyllum.jpg
T_azureum.jpg
T_peregrinum.jpg
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mark smyth on August 05, 2009, 01:57:43 PM: hello Jupiter and welcome. You'll find a few more Australians living here. You're T. pentaphyllum is very nice
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on August 05, 2009, 02:20:43 PM: They're ALL very nice - and fabulous pictures of yours too!

My T. pentaphyllum does very well as well, climbing to two metres or so and flowering profusely - it even sets the occasional seed... 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on August 05, 2009, 02:45:32 PM: Hi, Jupiter! Welcome to the Forum. Your pix are lovely..... we prefer that pix are posted directly to the site , as you have done, rather than linking to another photo host, so you are doing just fine!! 8)

great colours the Trops have, huh? plus the flower shapes.... what's not to like ??! :D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ragged Robin on August 05, 2009, 03:33:40 PM: Quote
pix are :
T_tricolor.jpg
T_brachyceras.jpg
T_pentaphyllum.jpg
T_azureum.jpg
T_peregrinum.jpg

Pix are fantastic Jupiter - looking forward to more, T_pentaphyllum is so unusual and T_azureum a glorious colour - pity I can't grow them in the alps!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mark smyth on August 05, 2009, 05:59:23 PM: I could get hooked on this family.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Brian Ellis on August 05, 2009, 06:25:04 PM: Welcome to the forum Jupiter, your plants are super, looks as though you are going to have a good collection :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on August 05, 2009, 09:51:14 PM: A really beautiful plant of T. azureum, good deep colour. Good fortune with the others still to germinate (though ciliatum is a beastly weed with me, while speciosum won't grow at all :'()
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on August 05, 2009, 11:08:47 PM: Hello Jupiter,
Very nice pics indeed!
I suppose you're patient enough for The tropaeolum seeds you're trying might take more than 1 year to germinate ( but it could be quicker ). You'll find plenty of informations & tips in this fantastic forum.
We look forward to seeing more of your plants
Regards
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on August 06, 2009, 11:27:37 AM: Thanks everyone for the kind welcome; I'm looking forward to learning lots here.

Jean-Patrick, that's actually music to my ears. It's always an anxious wait germinating these things - I only planted them 3 months ago.

Rogan - sad story about my T.pentaphyllum this year. We've just moved house and I had it in a very large pot at the base of an arbour in the garden at the old house. It grew magnificently up to the time when we had to move. I was forced to hack it off the arbour, retaining as much foliage as possible and transport it here. It has taken a bit of a beating but is recovering and hopefully will flower okay this season.

My azureum is only in its second season. Seed germinated in May08 after a couple of months in the refrigerator, flowered the same year in September. By December the plants had completely died back to the soil and I carefully dug up these tubers.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on August 06, 2009, 03:43:03 PM: By Jove ( ;D) those are beautiful tubers! Red tubers - blue flowers, what a plant!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: johnw on August 06, 2009, 05:13:21 PM: Quote from: Rogan on August 06, 2009, 03:43:03 PM
By Jove ( ;D) those are beautiful tubers! Red tubers - blue flowers, what a plant!

Time for some translucent pots, I'd say.

johnw
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on August 12, 2009, 07:28:52 AM: Jupiter,

Welcome to the forum. Excellent to have yet another Aussie here. Beautiful display of the Tropaeolum you have there. I grow the tricolor and brachyceras myself, as well as just having received seed from azureum. I love your pentaphyllum, but the peregrinum is stunning! The feathery petals are just amazing. Well done, and good luck with the germination of the others you already have sown.

And as for your pictures..... they are I think best hosted here not offsite, and they come through just fine as thumbnails as well.... so keep doing exactly what you're doing picture-wise.

Welcome again.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on August 12, 2009, 11:48:19 AM: Hi Paul, thanks for the welcome. Nice to know another Australian growing Tropaeolum. I hope we can swap seed in the future, do some trading perhaps? Keep me in mind.

My azureum just started flowering, first flowers opened last weekend. Looking forward to a good few months from it. I hope you have lots of luck germinating your seed, if you would like some more to try I have some fresh seed I collected last year from mine.

Cheers,
Jupiter
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on August 12, 2009, 12:24:14 PM: Jupiter,

I'd love to do some trading, but given I only grow species that you already grow, the chances are minimal from a Tropaeolum perspective. ;D Now if there are other things you collect... perhaps we can make some arrangements. I'm a collecting addict, so I grow a somewhat eclectic selection of plants, as many here can attest to from the photos and descriptions of things in my garden. ::)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on August 19, 2009, 02:02:09 PM: Well, it's official - my Tropaeolum seedling has turned out to be T. hookerianum austropurpureum - from seed to flowering in five months! :o

Sorry about the shallow depth of field - it's a very dull day here today (perhaps we'll have some rain!).
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on August 19, 2009, 10:47:24 PM: I doubt if you're complaining Rogan. ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on August 20, 2009, 01:55:59 PM: Stunning photograph Rogan. That's one I'd like to try growing some day.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on August 28, 2009, 11:26:54 AM: Hi again

Earlier in the year I said that I would post some pictures of the tender species that I have been growing. Success has been mixed with some plants having many flowers, while some have had few (T. peltophorum) and one none at all (T. fintelmanii olmosense). However here they are. In each case I have included a picture of the plant and one with the flower.

[attachthumb=1] [attachthumb=2]
T. peregrinum
[attachthumb=3] [attachthumb=4]
T. smithii
[attachthumb=5] [attachthumb=6]
T. moritzianum
[attachthumb=7] [attachthumb=8]
T. peltophorum
[attachthumb=9]
T. fintelmanii olmosense

Hope you like them

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on August 28, 2009, 11:34:45 AM: Thanks, Steven, clicking your pix to see the larger versions has been a real learning pleasure!

I especially love the "fancy" flowers of T. moritzianum and the simple form of T. peltophorum combined with its stunning colour - really charming flowers. The foliage varies a lot too......very useful to have shots of both plant and flower close-ups. 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on August 28, 2009, 11:49:46 AM: Stephen,

All very striking. I've got to find and grow peregrinum and moritzianum I think.... the flowers are just so cool. smithii is pretty special as well. I'd imagine these aren't seen very often? Of all you posted, peregrinum is the one that strikes me most.... just love that shape. Followed closely by moritzianum.

Thanks so much for showing us these unusual beauties!! 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fleurbleue on August 28, 2009, 01:44:08 PM: Wonderful flowers Steven, I failed two times T. peregrinum ??? A too dry place ?
Regards
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Brian Ellis on August 28, 2009, 06:12:02 PM: Thanks for showing us Steven that T. moritzianum flower is sensational.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on August 29, 2009, 06:07:21 AM: I at last have two seedings up of T. speciosum (don't throw up your hands in horror. So far I've failed miserably to grow this). I got a few seeds from my friend Susan back in early January, when Fermi, Otto et al were in NZ for the NZAGS Study weekend, and we all met Ian, the BD. So that long ago, as very fresh seed. But what I can't remember, was that Jan this year, or last? The only other thing in the seed pot is a young cabbage tree (Cordyline australis).
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Brian Ellis on August 29, 2009, 09:32:48 AM: Congratulations Lesley, I don't throw my hands up in horror as I don't live in the cool, wet districts of this world - in fact we've hardly had a drop of rain for four weeks. I was pleased to see that mine was about six foot tall and flowering in the deep shade of a Rosa glauca. I failed until someone told me to put it in a sheltered northerly position. Despite all warnings to the contrary it has not taken over the garden - yet ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on August 29, 2009, 11:53:24 AM: Hi Steven - your plants (and photographs) are stunning. I'm extremely impressed. I would love to trade seeds with you - I'm very interested in trying T. moritzianum. If your plants set viable seeds perhaps you'd consider a trade? :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on August 31, 2009, 08:46:58 AM: For years T. peregrinum seed was offered as "Canary Creeper" in this country, and sold in virually every seed store and garden centre - I have not seen it in recent years though... Quoting from experience this plant is much loved by slugs and snails - a fate my last batch of seedlings met with >:(
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Rogan on September 01, 2009, 08:02:40 AM: This is a question about tuberous Tropaeolum that may have been asked and answered many times before - I have this little T. hookerianum austropupureum doing its thing at the moment (I'll have to post another picture soon :D) and I would hate to lose it: how do I treat the tuber once it is dormant? Can I leave it in situ receiving heavy summer rainfall, or is it advisable to lift and store it dry or barely moist (in peat) for the summer months? In my infinite wisdom ::) I sowed the seed in a large pot containing dormant Sandersonia aurantiaca tubers (not thinking that the Tropaeolum would ever germinate!), now of course the Sandersonias want to grow when the Tropaeolum should go dormant. What a dilemma: so many things to grow - so little time to repot them!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on September 01, 2009, 09:20:00 AM: Rogan,

At least you'll have the Sandersonia using up the excess water while the Trops are dormant!!? If you've got multiple tubers maybe it's worthwhile to remove a couple from the pot and keep them dry somewhere, waiting to see what happens to those left in the pot with the Sandersonia?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on September 01, 2009, 01:16:25 PM: Rogan I try to keep my tuberous Tropaeolums on the dry side when they're dormant. I do this by moving their pots under a deck to keep out the winter rains. If that was my pot I'd separate the Trop. from the Sandersonia so you can properly look after it through its dormant period. Barely moist is the go I reckon, they are more than happy in peat or in damp-to-dry potting medium while dormant. They'll push up shoots when they feel it's time to come to life and that's when I start watering mine. Hope this helps, of course my climate is different to yours so it's not necessarily to be taken as gospel!
Good luck.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on September 01, 2009, 09:14:53 PM: I don't think I'd be letting the dormant tropaeolum tubers take heavy summer rain. Rather, I'd put their pot under a bench or somewhere they'll be safe and dry. I don't lift my T. azureum to store but keep it in the pot outside, but we have almost no rainfall in summer at all these days.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 01, 2009, 10:54:10 PM: Hi Rogan ,
I think you've been given the right advice. The tubers must be kept a little dry during their dormant spell. But not completely. I personnally keep the pots protected from direct sun but water sparingly from time to time or just spray the surface. By now I have 6 or 7 plants shooting. And Tropaeolum Pentaphyllum is growing quickly. We are at the gate of Autumn here and it will be time to expose the pots to more light.
You must separate Tropaeolum and Sandersonia. I've repotted-and checked-all my tubers late July as soon as they had died back. But Tropaeolum Rhomboideum had already begun to shoot underground (!!! ) and it probably won't like having been disturbed ...
Be confident
Regards
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on September 02, 2009, 11:37:32 AM: Jean-Patrick, I've done the same thing myself scratching around under the soil. Can't resist taking a look to see how they've multiplied during the season.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on September 02, 2009, 10:01:31 PM: Scratching around doesn't always help as some species travel deep and leave their tubers on the bottom of the pot. :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on September 02, 2009, 11:31:47 PM: You're right Lesley - that's why I empty mine out into a tray and sift through, collect all the tubers, get a good look at what's happening then repot them into fresh media, ready for the next season.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on September 03, 2009, 11:53:56 AM: Hi

I also keep my tubers fairly dry over the summer and repot around this time of year. I thought that you might like to see my "buried treasure".

[attachthumb]

This year I have twelve species (2 sub-species of T. hookerianum), two named hybrids (x tenuirostre and nubigenum x pollyphyllum ???) and a number of pots of unnamed hybrids largely based on R. Wilson's crosses.

I also sow seeds around this time of year and if anyone is interested in any of the following I could supply a few seeds to a few people.

T. beuthii
T. brachyceras
T. sessilifolium
T. Hybrids

I also have some seeds of T. smithii which I initially thought that I might offer to growers in the southern hemisphere as their summer is approaching. I don't have many seeds at the moment but the plant is still flowering and I would hope to have more available later in the year for spring sowing in the north. One warning - I have had very poor germination of this plant.

If anyone is interested please email me with your address and I will send you what I can.

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on September 04, 2009, 09:13:50 AM: Hi there,

I oversummer T. tricolor in its pots outside under a glass roof, and the shoots already appeared - everything's a little early this year (Canarina canariensis is almost flowering!).
The other species are still sleeping...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on September 04, 2009, 09:19:41 AM: I have some more pics of T. argentinum, which has grown very large (more than 4 m !). After it had grown to full size, all tips were crowded with flowers - after all it is a very special but (to my opinion) pretty plant, I had it growing together with Dicentra scandens and Clematis viticella, which was a pretty combination. It has also produced lots of seeds.

Best regards from Munich/Germany,

Michael
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Brian Ellis on September 04, 2009, 09:22:25 AM: Lovely combinations Michael, well planted :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ragged Robin on September 04, 2009, 09:28:45 AM: Steven, your "buried treasure" is very impressive! Looking forward to seeing it revealed ::)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ragged Robin on September 04, 2009, 09:31:46 AM: Quote from: Brian Ellis on September 04, 2009, 09:22:25 AM
Lovely combinations Michael, well planted :)

Absolutely, I agree with Brian, they look lovely - I've always liked T but really only been acquainted with the common red on growing over Yew.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on September 04, 2009, 10:45:00 AM: Steven you simply MUST post lots of pictures of your collection as they grow and bloom. I'm really looking forward to seeing them.
Impressive collection.
J
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: mickeymuc on September 04, 2009, 05:42:26 PM: Thanks Brian & Robin !

If you're interested im some argentinum seeds tell me, I have lots of them already and many are still ripening!

Kind regards from Munich,

Michael
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 10, 2009, 10:54:22 PM: Hi Michael,
Lovely photos indeed. The close-up of the flowers is really stunning. I have one question: how many seeds did you sow? and how many seeds did germinate? I personnally had one plant out of approximately 10 seeds sown. Another one has just raised ( several months after the first one ). So the germination rate seems quite low.
Any contribution about this?
Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on September 11, 2009, 05:30:27 AM: Hi, everyone. :D

I'm a Japanese Tropaeolum lover.
I found this forum a few months ago, but because of my poor English :'( I hesitated to comment.
But now I do want to participate in your conversations. I'm writing this with help of internet translation site. ;)

Steven, many thanks for introducing my web site here and there.
Your site is wonderful. There are some species I've never seen flowers...moritzianum,smithii,speciosum,etc.
Someday I want to see their flowers.

Michael, your argentinum photos are wonderful. I sowed some seeds last season but never germinated.
So I have the same question as Jean-Patrick. How about the germination rate? And is there possibility that
they germinate after 1 season or so? How about to the germination temperature? I'd like to know your experience.

The new season begins in September in Japan.
I contribute these photos in commemoration of the first participation. These are hybrid azureum appeared last season.

Kind regards from Japan,

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 11, 2009, 06:48:35 AM: Dora,
your pics are wonderful :o
Thank you for joining the Forum and sharing with us.
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on September 11, 2009, 09:24:32 AM: Welcome Dora; great to have you join us :)
I must say that if you are using a translator, it's a very good one.

What beautiful and well grown plants these are!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on September 11, 2009, 09:48:10 AM: Hello Dora and welcome. You know me already, I'm your friend in Australia whom you sent Tropaeolum azureum seeds to, remember? :) It's good to see that you haven't lost your touch - those hybrids are beautiful.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on September 11, 2009, 11:23:46 AM: A warm welcome Dora/Emiko ..... many of us have already enjoyed visiting your website, thanks to Stephen!
Great to see your photos here 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: maggiepie on September 11, 2009, 12:11:04 PM: Michael, your argentinum is wonderful, I love the leaves.
What is the clematis you have growing with it, it looks like a viticella of some sort.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: maggiepie on September 11, 2009, 12:13:16 PM: Hello Dora, your Tropaeolum are absolutely beautiful.
I look forward to seeing more of them.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 11, 2009, 10:50:58 PM: Hello Dora ( Emiko )
A warm welcome to this fantastic forum...which is going to be extraordinary with your contributions. You have perfectly grown plants and such incredible hybrids...So could you tell us about your growing conditions? We are longing for your comments and look forward to learn more from you!
Cheers
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on September 12, 2009, 02:21:40 AM: Hello!
fermides, ashley, Jupiter, Maggi, maggiepie, Jean-Patrick,
many thanks for your warm welcome message. I'm very glad to be here. :D

Jupiter, I remember you. Did any strange flowers appear from my azureum seeds? ;D

I grow Tropaeolum mainly in my small veranda in Osaka. There are 1 veranda(south side) and 1 roof balcony(north side).
I have a summer house in Nagano pref., some pots of T.pentaphyllum, ciliatum, incisum, polyphyllum are placed there throughout summer.
I've never seen their flowers　without pentaphyllum. I wonder why they can't flower.
Max temperature is about 29C. It's too high for them? ???

In September I place all the pots in roof balcony. Every time when I find gemination, I repot and put them there again.
In December I bring them to veranda. I have no greenhouse. It's OK in Osaka. Many plants grow in small place.
In February they start to bloom. Many bees are visiting in warm days. They are the artist. Thanks to them, there are many hybrid born.

To prevent from crossbreeding, I placed azureum pots in roof balcony when they started flowering last season. I don't know it worked well. Maybe I'll see the result this season.

I gave many tubers to my friends in my country last month. They say that some of them have begun to sprout.
It's amazing that they know the proper season to start growing. But interesting thing exists. There are some tubers
never wake up through one season. Some of them die at last but there are ones wake up in the next season.
How about your tubers? Have you ever seen such a thing? My T. beuthii No.3 is so.

Kind regards from Japan,

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ragged Robin on September 12, 2009, 12:16:34 PM: Dora, what a pleasure to see your Tropaeolum growing beautifully you must have have magic green fingers :) From your description I imagine your roof balcony and veranada as a paradise for your plants and the bees obviously think so too :D Welcome to this Forum and I look forward to finding out more about how you grow plants in Osaka.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on September 12, 2009, 09:18:52 PM: Welcome to the Forum Emiko. We love to have new members in new countries and I think you are our first member in Japan, the home of so many sought-after and choice plants.

Your Tropaeolums are truly beautiful. Than you for sharing them with us.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 12, 2009, 10:00:26 PM: Hi Dora
About the tuber dormancy this may seem strange but is frequently reported by growers. this happens not only for Tropaeolum. I have one Tr Beuthii which grew only once and has been staying dormant for 3 years. The tuber had been checked and is still in good health. Osaka seems to be THE place to grow these plants. And you have 2 exposures ( one south & one north )
About Tr Polyphyllum, Tr Incisum & Tr Ciliatum, it's a bit more difficult to grow them in pots. You have a summer house so why don't you plant these directly in the ground? What are the minimal temperatures in Osaka? and in Nagano? Tr Ciliatum will become a weed ( many contributors in this forum can attest it ) if planted not in full sun ( roots in the shade ). Tr Incisum & Tr Polyphyllum are Andean species and you must try to mimic their Chilean conditions: build something of a rock garden, plant the tubers deeply in the ground to protect them from cold spells. The soil must have a very sharp drainage and the plants should be ideally exposed to sun during the cold season when they begin to shoot deeply underground. They usually emerge in December/ January ( in EUROPE ) and grow more freely when spring arrives. One problem might be a very hot spring ( and early summer ) which might decide the plants to go dormant prematurely.

Hope this will be of some help to you

Cheers

Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on September 12, 2009, 10:11:46 PM: Dora the azureum seed you gave me grew true to type. I haven't planted any more since the first germination as I have the tubers now. I'm glad they weren't a hybrid as I wanted the species form for my collection. :) We have just moved house so all gardening has been put on hold for a season. Next season I intend to propagate a lot of Tropaeolum seed and make myself a nice area in the garden for the collection. There's a lot of work to do here but we out grew the last garden and it's good to have more space.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on September 13, 2009, 02:04:50 PM: Hi

Ragged Robin, Lesley Cox, many thanks for your welcome message. :)

I'd like to keep this paradise for bees as possible as I can.
Every spring it's a big pleasure for me to see a new hybrid.

Really? The first member of the forum? It's my honor.
How wonderful forum here is to be able to talk with worldwide members! :D

Jean-Patrick, thanks a lot for your useful advice. :)
Your T. beuthii has been staying dormant for 3 years! It's surprising. :o
Today's pic is my beuthii No.3 from SRGC seed, that has rather strange flower, both shape and color.

The minimal temperatures in Osaka is -4C and in Nagano is -15C.

In Nagano ciliatum and speciosum can tolerate winter. I've tried to plant them in a ground.
Every summer they don't grow well and there are no flower buds, though their leaves are green and healthy.

In Osaka they grows little by little even in winter. But in May or June leaves become yellow and they seem to be dormant.
Only twice I could see one or two flowers of ciliatum.

It's incredible that ciliatum will be a weed in my country. The weather is so different, I think. Maybe too hot to thrive.

I will try to plant incisum and polyphyllum this year in Nagano, following your advice. They will tolerate winter.
The problem will be summer, as same as ciliatum and speciosum. How about the temperature of dormancy? How do you think from
your experience? If it's under 25C, I will not be able to see their flowers forever in Japan.

Jupiter, I'm glad to hear that you could see the true blue flowers from my azureum seeds.
I'm looking forward to seeing your Trop. collection in your new garden. ;)

Kind regards from Japan,

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on September 13, 2009, 02:16:41 PM: Dora, you are our second registered forumist from Japan.... we are delighted that you are the first to begin posting and showing photos! 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 13, 2009, 10:29:59 PM: Hi Dora, As you can read all along this topic there are a lot of growers who succeed every year with Tr SPECIOSUM This species, as you probably know prefers a cool summer and thrives in the UK and Scotland ( it is called "the scottish flame flower" ). It needs a neutral or acidic soil and thrives scrambling through Rhododendrons. Can you grow Rhododendrons in Nagano? Tr SPECIOSUM likes the same growing conditions. In LYON where I live it flowered once during a particularly cool and rainy summer. So don't give up! The soil must be cool but not overwet and a bit porous( not too compact )as indicated earlier in this forum. Roots in the shade & head in the sun ( or full light ).
About Tr POLYPHYLLUM & Tr INCISUM you must have a try remembering their native Chilean conditions ( growing on screes in high altitude ) . Why don't you ask Susan BAND of PITCAIRN ALPINES for Tr INCISUM? She offers and grow successfully this one and could give you useful advice.
Best regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on September 15, 2009, 01:50:00 AM: Hi

Maggi, thank you for letting me know the accurate member information. :D
Anyway it's a great pleasure to hear from friends growing Tropaeolum.

Jean-Patrick, thanks for growing tips every time. Yes, I read this thread and I'm very surprised at the fact that some of Tropaeolum are weeds. And I think there are some hints of growing about environment where they become weeds.

"Cool summer" is the most difficult problem in my place, I think. In my Nagano garden there are 3 Rhododendrons(Rhododendron dilatatum). I'll try to plant T.speciosum near them in future. I have no speciousm now, so I must grow it from seed this year.
You know, their germination is so irregular that there is no guarantee to get plants soon.
Anyway I just keep trying to sow their seeds until I get some plants.

I examined the climate of Lyon on the Internet. Because averages of the highest temperature are 27 degrees, it is near the climate of Nagano. So I don't give up now. Thank you! :D

About T.polyphyllum I attempt the first experiment planting them ground this winter in Nagano. The tubers begin moving now.
I plant them in deep place(20-30cm depth) where are filled with soil for Alpine plants.(mini rock garden)

Thanks for the information of PITCAIRN ALPINES. I googled this site and found Susan's e-mail. I'll write an e-mail.

Kind regards from Japan,

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on September 18, 2009, 10:51:59 AM: Hi
And welcome from me too Dora. Sorry its taken so long. I am looking forward to learning about your growing techniques and particularly to seeing more of your wonderful photographs.
At this time of year I take cuttings of the Double Nasturtiums and I thought the forum might like to see little posies of two of these.

[attachthumb=1]

Margaret Long

[attachthumb=2]
Hermine Grashoff

The third type Darjeeling Gold has grown well this year but without many flowers.

Steve
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 18, 2009, 09:12:51 PM: Great bunches of flowers Steven!
Thank you for these very nice ones
I find Darjeeling gold has quite strange flowers. Not as nice to me as those of Margaret Long & Hermine Grashoff. Do you know about Apricot Twist? Is it a different one?
Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on September 19, 2009, 01:34:19 PM: Hi
Steven, thanks for your welcome message! :D
I'm very glad to talk with you here.

Lovely flowers! :)
I have a question. "Darjeeling gold" is the same thing as "Darjeeling double"? If so, I agree with Jean-Patrick.
The flowers of Darjeeling double are rather strange.
It seems that "Margaret Long" is the same as "Apricot Twist", I don't know the truth though.

These 3 types of double flowers are also sold in Japan. They have Japanese names.

Kind regards from Japan,

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 21, 2009, 04:18:45 AM: Those doubles are rather amazing, but not seen around here i'm afraid :(
Tropaeolum tricolor is the one that does best outdoors for me. This one is growing on a low "hedge"
[attachthumb=1] [attachthumb=2]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ragged Robin on September 21, 2009, 05:32:58 PM: A magnificent sight, Fermi, like little lanterns - does the hedge suffer?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: tonyg on September 21, 2009, 06:30:24 PM: Quote from: Ragged Robin on September 21, 2009, 05:32:58 PM
A magnificent sight, Fermi, like little lanterns - does the hedge suffer?
I see a shoal of little fish!
It certainly grows lustily outside for you Fermi. Here it clings to life outside, planted under a Grevillea against a sunny wall. No chance of it harming its support the way I grow it. I should add that under cold glass it is more vigorous.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 22, 2009, 12:36:45 AM: Quote from: Ragged Robin on September 21, 2009, 05:32:58 PM
A magnificent sight, Fermi, like little lanterns - does the hedge suffer?
Robin,
the "hedge" is Euonymus and is pretty resilient, but this is the heaviest growth from the trop so far - I'll wait and see what it looks like after the trop dies down.

Tony,
I "liberated" the trop into the garden as I have much less success with it in pots!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on September 22, 2009, 10:42:54 AM: *URGENT* Advice needed

I've had a disaster with my Tropaeolum azureum. Remember I'm in the Southern Hemisphere so now is our active growing/flowering time for these. It seems a snail or a slug has damaged the main stem on my biggest plant, causing the whole thing to wilt and start yellowing. I don't think there is any hope of recovery for the growing shoot, my question is this - should I dig up the tubers now and get them into a dryer media, or leave them be and hope for a re-shoot this season? My concern is that the wetness and the warmth of the current conditions might be conducive to rot. Any advice greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on September 22, 2009, 11:52:52 AM: Don't panic! Do not overwater the plant meantime but keep pot slightly moist to discourage premature dormancy. We actively pinch out the growing tips of our T. azureum to encourage branching, so the chomping is not a disaster in itself.
I am wondering why, though, the chomping of the stem is leading to yellowing and wilt? Is it just that the growth above the chomp is dying? If that is all, then still no cause for panic.... though a few tears at the loss of the top growth is permissable! ;)
I would think it is still early enough in your season for the plant to put out some new growth to replace the chomped stem. Don't subject the planty to too much else in the way of stress.... slugs, too much hot sun, etc while it has a chance to make new growth.

If there is no sign of new growth, still try to keep the plant remaining green for as long as possible, and when it does go into dormancy, do not allow the tubers to get too dry or the dormancy may descend into one that is VERY deep and nigh impossible to get it to wake up from.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on September 22, 2009, 12:14:52 PM: Thanks Maggi, that's good advice and I think I'll take it. Unfortunately the single stem of this plant was damaged right down at soil level. It may yet re-shoot , unfortunately we've been having torrential rain here over the past 48 hours and the pots will all be soaked. I suppose I'll have to trust that my especially concocted media has sharp enough drainage to handle it.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 22, 2009, 03:52:47 PM: Hi Jupiter,
Nothing else to add to Maggi's excellent advice. Do NOT dig out the tubers. If they are safe and ready to re-shoot you could disturb them and they might not appreciate that. If the tubers are beginning to rot I think there's nothing to do to save them. Remember that the most important part of the plant IS the tuber and NOT the stems ( nor the flowers as beautiful as they should seem ). Just keep the pots out of hard rainfalls and allow them to dry a little if they're overwet ( exposing your pots to "a bit of sun" should help ). What temperature do you have at present? Can you move the pots to different exposures to protect them from too much heat? and too much rain? In Chile Tr Azureum grows with cool weather, exposed to "cool " sun.
So best to follow Maggi's advice: wait & see
Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 22, 2009, 10:20:54 PM: Hello,
This is about Tr SMITHII. I've sown MANY seeds purchased from Chiltern Seeds but I'm still waiting for any of it to germinate. I'm feeling a bit frustrated now...Apart from Steven Mc Farlane ( who succeeded ) is there any other Tropaeolum grower who have had encouraging results with this species?
Waiting for your contributions
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on September 22, 2009, 11:57:32 PM: And even if the top growth is all gone, the roots will still be active so no, don't think of lifting them yet.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on September 23, 2009, 01:12:46 PM: Hi
Fermi, your T.tricolor is beautiful! Maybe it has a huge tuber, isn't it?
How do you treat this in winter? Do you dig your tubers up? Or leave them alone?

Jupiter, there's nothing more to say, all important things have already been told here.
I hope your azureum tuber is safe.

Jean-Patrick, I'm afraid it's not success story, but I have T.smithii seeds(from Chiltern Seeds) that have never germinated.
I sowed them last year. I sowed other smithii seeds (also from Chiltern Seeds) 3 days ago.
Of course, it's too short time to occur something, I know. All I can do now is wait for germination.

Kind regards from Japan,

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on September 23, 2009, 03:06:23 PM: Quote from: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 22, 2009, 10:20:54 PM
This is about Tr SMITHII ... is there any other Tropaeolum grower who have had encouraging results with this species?

I've tried several different conditions, but have had no germination yet after 5 months. Perhaps later this autumn or next spring ...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on September 24, 2009, 06:11:19 AM: Quote from: DORA on September 23, 2009, 01:12:46 PM
Hi
Fermi, your T.tricolor is beautiful! Maybe it has a huge tuber, isn't it?
How do you treat this in winter? Do you dig your tubers up? Or leave them alone?
Kind regards from Japan,
DORA
Hi Dora,
I have no idea what the tuber looks like now as I planted it outabout 3 years ago. We get frosts down to -7^oC and this doesn't affect the top growth - they start into growth in late autumn I think. I leave them alone but if I wanted to dig them up I guess it would be in late spring, early summer as they are going dormant. Growing within the euonymus bushes means that the tubers are kept relatively dry by the roots of the bushes I think.
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on September 25, 2009, 02:20:00 PM: Hi
Fermi, thanks for your message about growing tricolor environment. :)
It's wonderful to hear that tricolor can tolerate up to the -7C. :o
As you say, the euonymus bushes maybe help them.
If you would dig the tubers up, you would get huge tubers and many child tubers, I think.

Today I came back to Osaka from Nagano. I found a germination of (probably) T. smithii. I sowed old seeds in a big pot.
There's no secret procedure, I only left them alone with automatic watering system. I'm sorry, I wrote a wrong thing of
sowing date. It's not last year, it's 29th May 2009. So it took 4 months for germination.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on September 25, 2009, 03:36:30 PM: Hi Dora

It's great to hear that you have some germination of T. smithii. My single plant is still healthy, flowering well and producing seed. All further attempts with seed from my own and bought seed have been unsuccessful. I am continuing to experiment - most recently with very fresh (green) seed and I have also taken some cuttings. I willl report on these if they bring success. As always seems to be the case I have noticed a seedling in a pot of T. hookerianum ssp. hookerianum tubers which from its leaf shape can only be T. smithii or T. peregrinum. I will see how this develops but it will eventually have to be repoted as winter and summer flowering species need such different conditions. I will try and bring it through my cold scottish winter and see which species I have when it flowers in the spring. Although I love them dearly Tropaeolum growing is rarely straightforward.

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on September 26, 2009, 06:20:09 AM: Wow, even more new species that I've never heard of. The T. argentinum is another that I would never have guessed was a Tropaeolum. I assume that it and peregrinum are fairly closely allied?

Emiko,

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for your wonderful pics of some fascinating species and hybrids. I grow only a couple myself, but can vouch for Tr. tricolor outside here as well, and down to -9'C in previous years in 8 inch black plastic pots (so the tubers would be far colder than in the ground) without any problems with the plants at all. The same for Tr. brachyceras in the same conditions, although I have only had it a few years from seed. Interestingly, it has set seed this year, which was a bit of a surprise as I haven't had Trop seed before. I am now wondering whether it is a hybrid with the tricolor within a couple of metres of it (some of our nectar feeding native birds visit them regularly) or whether brachyceras is self-fertile? I just love your wonderful azureum hybrids, so I am not averse to the idea of my brachyceras seed being of a hybrid nature. I think more likely though it is just self-pollinated.

Thanks everyone for the excellent photos. I am going to have to start collecting more Trops I see, now that I see how many species and hybrids there are. Now to find them of course! ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on September 27, 2009, 02:15:25 PM: Hi
Steven, it's great that your T.smithii is still healthy and producing a lot of seeds.
Is it yellow flower plant, or red one? I planted my smithii into a 15cm pot.

I wonder why your own seeds couldn't germinate. ??? I have a similar experience,
it's about T.sessilifolium. A few years ago I got some seeds from sessilifolium,
but they had never germinated. :'(
I'm very interested in your experiment. I hope to hear your success story,
but I'd like to know the result whether it work well or not.

I sowed some seeds of T.hookerianum var.hookerianum about 10 days ago.
Some of them seem to begin germinating. I'll report their growing on my web site.
I bought the seeds from Chile flora.

I agree with your opinion that Tropaeolum growing is rarely straightforward.
And so, it's very interesting and challenging.

Paul T, thanks for your welcome message. I'm glad to hear more
information of T.tricolor from you.
Your tricolor in pot can tolerate cold winter! What a surprise! :o

It'll be a great pleasure to see your flowers from your new seeds.
I think there would appear many hybrids if you grow Tropaeolum in a small place.
Please enjoy hybrid world and let us show your new born hybrids! :D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 28, 2009, 09:41:15 PM: Hello Everybody,
May I just precise one point which I think could help on the germination of the Chilean species. This mustn't be taken as a rule but I recently realized that a better germination rate could be in following the seasonal conditions which leads to the seed germination in the wild. That is let the seeds exposed to elements when set off on the ground at ripening time. Putting the seeds in the fridge after collecting might be one of the reasons why they don't germinate when sown afterwards in autumn. And they sometimes take one year-or more-to germinate. Am I right? I really don't know but I'm now experimenting this way whenever I can.
Emiko, have you let the Tr sessilifolium seeds exposed to the summer weather like they are in their native Chile?
I also have 3 seedlings from chile flora's TR hookerianum seeds sown recently.
Any contribution on this germination problem?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on October 02, 2009, 12:47:14 PM: Hi
Jean-Patrick, I didn't do anything to T.sessilifolium seeds.
As the same way I always treat with T.azureum seeds, I sowed T.sessilifolium ones.
As you think, there may be some keys to start germinating.
Or it might be impossible to germinate if self-pollination.
I don't know the truth, but I hope your experiment make this mystery clear.
I'd like to hear some opinions from Steven about this matter, too.

Now, at last, one seed of T.hookerianum germinated!
Seeing germination is always exciting. I love this time.

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on October 02, 2009, 09:20:49 PM: Hi Dora,
Self-pollination must lead to success for the seeds you get through the exchanges, seed companies and Tropaeolum growers do not come-I think-from the wild. And if you can raise a plant from these seeds then you'll be able to do it with your own ones. We agree that the main point is how to treat the seeds from collection right to germination. And Chilean Tropaeolum are not from the same areas in the wild. There are the high altitude species mainly on rocky slopes ( Tr Polyphyllum, Incisum, Leptophyllum, Sessilifolium, and maybe Tr Rhomboideum ) and those from lower altitudes ( Tr Azureum, Hookerianum, Brachyceras, Ciliatum, Speciosum... ). I'm quite sure they won't need the same sowing conditions. Steven's comments? Or anybody's on this forum?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Eric Locke on October 03, 2009, 11:06:06 PM: Have had my best ever display this year from Tropaeolum Tuberosum "Ken Aslet" from 5 bulbs. 8)

Eric
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on October 04, 2009, 12:04:47 AM: Wow. That looks like a beautiful Trop.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 04, 2009, 08:32:06 PM: Wonderful growth covering the fence and a terrific amount of flower, Eric, no wonder you're pleased it does you proud 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on October 04, 2009, 10:27:47 PM: Eric, congratulations on your tuberosum. What a stunning plant! I can't get that one here in Australia for the simple reason that; everyone sells TUBERS, and our quarantine people don't allow tubers into Australia. I continue to search for a supplier who will send me a few humble seeds of T. tuberosum.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on October 05, 2009, 01:28:22 PM: Hi
Jean-Patrick, I can understand your opinion. I also think the environment where they live is important.
Now, except using fridge, how do you try to achieve the environment of higher mountain?
Is there any nice idea? Oh, but we don't have a hard time if we come up with the method!

Eric, what a wonderful sight!
I wonder how many flowers there were.
Your 5 bulbs might have become more and more bigger than before.

As Jupiter said, I also couldn't find their seeds in all nurseries where I have checked.
Is T.tuberosum a type that doesn't make fruits?
Did you get any seeds from your plants, Eric?

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on October 05, 2009, 10:43:06 PM: Hi Eric,
What an incredible "wave" of leaves & flowers!
Someone once offered Tr Tuberosum seeds through the exchange. I think they were just a few. People really don't want to bother with seeds for it produces offset tubers just like potatoes ( ...I've been told... because I've always failed in growing this one! )
And does it has time to produce mature seeds outdoors? Before beeing killed by frosts? could it be grown successfully in a glasshouse?
Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Eric Locke on October 05, 2009, 10:54:09 PM: Hi

These plants are producing many seeds for anyone interested,perhaps an exchange.

I have estimated that the flower count is around two thousand. :o :o :o.

Tubers planted this year were very large after a reasonable summer last year and I expect they have multiplied greatly this year.

I understand the tubers are eaten in S America. ???

Main difference in cultivation this year is that they have had a daily supply of water via an automatic watering system.

Eric
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on October 11, 2009, 12:33:07 PM: Hi

Eric, it's a good news for us that your T. tuberosum produce many seeds.
Around 2000 flowers!! :o :o :o

I've also heard that the tubers are sold as crops in S. America.
I wonder what taste they are. But "Ken Aslet" is not a species that are eaten,
so I'm sorry that I can't hear from you the taste.

I'm in Nagano now. There are many germination from many seeds.
The pic is T.hookerianum var. hookerianum's pot. I'll be busy to pot them up.

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on October 12, 2009, 12:40:17 PM: Hi Dora and others

I said that I would report on my experiments with some of the tender species. These have brought a fair degree of success. The very fresh seeds of T. smithii have produced three seedlings (the first three of these which have germinated despite many attempts).
Cuttings of T. fintelmanii olmosense, T. smithii and T. peltophorum have all rooted in water and are now growing away in a gritty compost. There will now of course be the challenge of bringing the above through a dull cold Scottish winter but at least I have some hope of keeping them in cultivation.
I realise that this information is of little use if you do not have these plants but if anyone would like to experiment with very fresh seed of T. smithii please be in contact. In the northern hemisphere any seedlings would of course need protection over the winter.

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on October 12, 2009, 03:03:35 PM: Steven,

Thank you very much for the seed of T. smithii and hybrids, immediately sown on arrival.
This account of your success with fresh seed gives me renewed hope & the push to try cuttings of other spp. too 8)

Dora, you've had fast and good germination :o Well done!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on October 13, 2009, 02:03:38 PM: Hi

Steven, it's nice to hear that your experiments have succeeded. Congratulation! :D
I know the cutting of T. majus is easy, but it's the first time to hear about T.fintelmanii,etc.
How long does it take to begin appearing the root? About 1 week or so? ::)
It's interesting experiment, so I'd like to try cutting of T.smithii after growing more bigger.
I hope that your seedlings grow well over the winter. :)

Ashley, the germination rate of this pot was about 50%. I think the seeds from Chile flora maybe were fresh ones.
I hope your seeds from Steven begin to germinate soon. :)

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on October 17, 2009, 10:07:42 PM: Hi Everybody,
It's now the beginning of "winter" in Lyon / FRANCE. Temperatures have quickly fallen down to a few degrees above O° with cold winds. All my Tropaeolum ( with the exception of the andean species ) have been brought indoors and they all seem to do quite well. Tr. MORITZIANUM is producing its first flowers ( how marvellous!!! ). I particularly like the flower buds ( of most tropaeolum species... ). Tr. Peltophorum is growing on and on... but still no flowers... Hope to post pics later on.
Dora, I've taken small cuttings from Tr. MORITZIANUM and they've rooted in water within a week. All the annual species can be propagated like this quite easily, provided you give them enough warm light ( mine have been exposed to sunlight every afternoon ( and we've had many sunny days since the beginning of autumn ). I don't have any experience on traditional cuttings in compost.
Hope it helps
Regards
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on October 20, 2009, 08:26:56 AM: Quote from: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 24, 2009, 03:32:44 PM
Hi,
The seed exchanges are full of surprises. The seeds supplied are not sometimes what you're expecting. That was the case with this batch of seeds labelled as Tr. BEUTHII. In fact it was something different which flowered. Maybe the seed donor thought it was correctly named and the plants have cross pollinated spontaneously before harvesting the seeds ( thanks to the bees & other pollinators ) But indeed I really don't mind for these hybrids are much more interesting!!!
I wonder if this is also a hybrid,
[attachthumb=1][attachthumb=2]

grown from SRGC Seedex 2009 as T. beuthii, so coming into flower in a very short time (sown around May I think)!
I wonder if it will cross with T. tricolor which is close by??
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on October 20, 2009, 09:12:48 AM: Nice, Fermi. Very, very nice. Did you get more than one seedling? Mabye variability within the seedlings might help work out whether it is a hybrid or not. That one certainly looks like a keeper though. Feel free to multiply it up and send a tuber up here for an off-site trial. ;D ;D ;)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Giles on November 05, 2009, 06:36:32 PM: Something of a surpise - my first attempt at growing these - I bought some seeds, sowed them, stuck them in the fridge, and wasn't expecting anything to happen until I brought them into the heat next Spring. I checked to see if they needed watering today, to find..........
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on November 05, 2009, 07:50:11 PM: An excellent result Giles. Nice too that they are double stemmed. ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on November 12, 2009, 12:44:32 PM: edit by maggi: these posts moved across from seed exchange pages..... 8)

Welcome Westwind. Is that T. sessilifolium on the far left of your lovely photo, and if so, is it perennial for you?

Photo referred to is this one....
click to enlarge
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: west wind on November 12, 2009, 12:54:15 PM: Quote from: Ragged Robin on November 12, 2009, 11:23:58 AM
have you photos of the plants you grow as well?

Thank you, Ragged Robin ,for your welcome message.
I really enjoy this forum.
I've been growing Tropaeolum species for these five years .

Here's some of my Trops.

Westwind
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: west wind on November 12, 2009, 01:06:23 PM: Quote from: ashley on November 12, 2009, 12:44:32 PM
Welcome Westwind. Is that T. sessilifolium on the far left of your lovely photo, and if so, is it perennial for you?

So happy to join the wonderful forum,ashley .
Yes ,that's it exactly !
T.sessilifolium forms small tuber in my climate.
But it often doesn't wake from dormancy next season.

Westwind
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ragged Robin on November 12, 2009, 01:19:19 PM: Westwind, your Tropaeolum are growing beautifully, a wonderful show....T sessilifolium is such a delicate colour and it's interesting to see the tubers, thanks.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on November 12, 2009, 01:54:58 PM: Yes thanks for the fine photos Westwind. You obviously grow this species far better than I do :)

~~Perhaps we should move across to the 'Bulbs/Bulbs general/Tropaeolum' thread for more general discussion.~~
Thanks Maggi.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: west wind on November 12, 2009, 02:03:13 PM: Thank you for your suggestion.

Westwind
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on November 12, 2009, 02:17:02 PM: Well done Giles. You have the credentials to start a trop germination niche business methinks ;) ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tecophilaea King on November 18, 2009, 03:30:30 AM: What a fascinating forum, especially for the Tropaeolum addicts, like me
As you can see, I am from New Zealand in the Southern Hemisphere, where the Trops of course flower in the opposite season, but otherwise we grow the same species and they require the same cultivation/treatment.
No need to say that I love the Trops and I am blown away by all those exquisite species and hybrids grown by the various, experienced, knowledgeable tropoholics in this forum, the contribution, pictures and cultural notes/information by Ashley, Dora, Steven, Fermi, Jean Patrick, Erick, Jupiter, Michael, others, and not to forget Maggi ( I have to keep her sweet, might come in handy when I need some favours) ;D ;D ;D
Anyway, for the members in this forum, I will show a few Trops that I grow successfully (have posted these pics elsewhere in Oct.flowering SH)
Will look forward to more postings, discussions, pics and information on this very interesting forum.

Trop. tricolor
Trop.azureum
Trop.brachyceras
Trop.pentaphyllum
Trop.pentaphyllum
Trop.tricolor. brachyceras
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tecophilaea King on November 18, 2009, 03:51:11 AM: While on the subject of Tropaeolum species seed, I have just finished harvesting fresh seeds of Trop. azureum and Trop.brachyceras.
Anyone interested in exchanging seed especially the tropaeolums just send me a PM at daffodil@xnet.co.nz
I prefer exchange for obvious reasons, (I never knew there were so many beautiful species and hybrids) but If you have not got anythings to swap, (or have some seed available perhaps later in your NH season) don't worry, you're still welcome to some seeds.
Cheers, Bill
BTW: there could be a few seeds with some minor interesting variations and colours of the leaves and flowers of the Trop.azureum.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on November 18, 2009, 01:38:05 PM: Quote
Maggi ....( I have to keep her sweet, might come in handy when I need some favours)....

Good way to "keep me sweet" and assist the system, is to include the file names of pictures posted into the text of your post, Bill: that way the search engine can find them. ::) 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ragged Robin on November 18, 2009, 01:38:45 PM: Bill, what an intoxicating vision - are these Trops all growing outside for you?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tecophilaea King on November 18, 2009, 07:43:15 PM: Quote from: Maggi Young on November 18, 2009, 01:38:05 PM
Quote
Maggi ....( I have to keep her sweet, might come in handy when I need some favours)....

Good way to "keep me sweet" and assist the system, is to include the file names of pictures posted into the text of your post, Bill: that way the search engine can find them. ::) 8)

Thanks for reminding me Maggi, as usual you keep us boys on our toes and best behaviour. Most of the times ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: maggiepie on November 18, 2009, 07:48:21 PM: Bill, your trops are beautiful, what wonderful colours.
The tricolor on the wall is stunning. Can't wait for my little baby to get some flowers.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tecophilaea King on November 18, 2009, 08:31:07 PM: Quote from: Ragged Robin on November 18, 2009, 01:38:45 PM
Bill, what an intoxicating vision - are these Trops all growing outside for you?

Hi Robin, yes most of the Trops are grown outside, we are very lucky with our climate, ideal for growing the Tropaeolums.
The Trop.azureum often get special attention with hand pollination, and rewards us with plenty of seed. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on November 18, 2009, 09:41:23 PM: Hi Bill
In this fascinating forum there are some fascinating visions. Your photos are impressive. Yes, Tropaeolum species seem to do very well outside. Unfortunately in France we can only try some ( the andean ones and a few others ). You have quite an ocean of flowers!!!
Your Tropaeolum Brachyceras is very interesting because the flowers seem to really match SPARRE's taxonomic description ( with a SHORT spur ).
I put photos ( not as showy... ) of Tr Moritzianum ( many thanks Steven ). It's now indoors and doesn't seem to like it much. I hope to bring one cutting in LYON's BG where it will have chance of thriving.
I do like Tr ARGENTINUM flower buds: just pretty little elves heads...I can't resist...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on November 18, 2009, 10:27:53 PM: Bill, you're welcome :D

J-P... I do love the frilly flower of Tropaeolum moritzianum ..... sweet thing and so bright.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on November 19, 2009, 12:00:24 AM: Great pics as always, Bill,

Jean-Patrick, I love both the ones you posted, but particularly the fringed moritzianum. This forum is a great place to see species we've never seen before. 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on November 19, 2009, 02:00:11 AM: Hi

Jean-Patrick,
your T.moritzianum is lovely. I've never seen both flowers of moritzianum and argentinum.
Do you have some seeds from your plants? I hope your plants keep good condition througohut winter and will have many flowers next season. Thanks to Michael I sowed some argentinum seeds, but there has seen no germination yet. I wonder it may start next spring.

I tried a cutting of T.smithii last month, but I failed. I've read again your comments and realized it didn't go well because of lack of "warm light". I'll try once again next week. Because I'm in Nagano now, go back to Osaka this weekend. My T.smithii has some small flower buds and I'm very anxious.

Fermides,
I also had hybrid beuthii from SRGC seed exchange. It had odd shaped orange flower, produced a tuber, kept dormant one season,
awaked next season and had flowers, and keep dormant again this season. It's good that your hybrid has good flower shape.

Giles,
conglaturation! I'm looking forward to seeing your Trop. flowers next spring!

Hello Westwind and welcome!
I'm very glad to see you here. My plant are always small but yours are always big and beautiful.
Please let us show your pics more and more!

Bill,
your trops are stunning! I saw a lot of seeds and was overwhelmed. As Jean-Patrick wrote, the spur shape of your T.brachyceras
is interesting. Where did you obtain the seeds?

---
Many seedlings(T.azureum, brachyceras, lepidum) were below snow the day before yesterday. The snow melted next day and they were all safe.

DORA in Nagano
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tecophilaea King on November 19, 2009, 07:32:48 PM: Quote from: DORA on November 19, 2009, 02:00:11 AM
Bill, your trops are stunning! I saw a lot of seeds and was overwhelmed. As Jean-Patrick wrote, the spur shape of your T.brachyceras
is interesting. Where did you obtain the seeds?
DORA in Nagano
Hi Dora, its great to see your enthusiasm and keen participation with the beautiful Tropaeolums in this forum.
The Trop.brachyceras I grow with the short spur, came originally from a good friend and keen bulb grower, who imported the seed from Chile, perhaps 20-30 ago.
Would you like to try some T.brachyceras seed? You are most welcome, the same for T.azureum, no exchange needed, .
Jean-Patrick would you like to try some as well? or any other keen tropoholics?
BTW: could/would any experienced growers perhaps comment on how fresh seed from our Southern Hemisphere would perform in your Northern Hemisphere condition? The seed being fresh, when sown immediately would they germinate quickly?
Would that be an advance? What do you think J-P?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on November 20, 2009, 12:33:20 AM: How the devil can one man have so much seed on T. azureum? It's indecent!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on November 20, 2009, 12:44:56 AM: Quote from: Tecophilaea addict on November 18, 2009, 03:51:11 AM
While on the subject of Tropaeolum species seed, I have just finished harvesting fresh seeds of Trop. azureum and Trop.brachyceras.

Bill, if you were kind enough to tell me the size of that label in with the trop seeds, then I could add those photos to the " seeds to scale" ID project........ ::) 8) ( in metric length, if you would? )
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tecophilaea King on November 20, 2009, 04:31:11 AM: Quote from: Maggi Young on November 20, 2009, 12:44:56 AM
Bill, if you were kind enough to tell me the size of that label in with the trop seeds, then I could add those photos to the " seeds to scale" ID project........ ::) 8) ( in metric length, if you would? )
No problem, my pleasure.
plastic label
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tecophilaea King on November 20, 2009, 04:43:13 AM: Quote from: Lesley Cox on November 20, 2009, 12:33:20 AM
How the devil can one man have so much seed on T. azureum? It's indecent!

Is that a question or a statement Lesley? Do I detect a hint of jealousy? ;D ;D ;D
Would you like some Trops seed as well? you're most welcome.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on November 20, 2009, 08:22:08 PM: Quote from: Tecophilaea addict on November 20, 2009, 04:31:11 AM
Quote from: Maggi Young on November 20, 2009, 12:44:56 AM
Bill, if you were kind enough to tell me the size of that label in with the trop seeds, then I could add those photos to the " seeds to scale" ID project........ ::) 8) ( in metric length, if you would? )
No problem, my pleasure.
plastic label

Thanks, Bill!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on November 20, 2009, 09:30:41 PM: Quote from: Tecophilaea addict on November 19, 2009, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: DORA on November 19, 2009, 02:00:11 AM
Bill, your trops are stunning! I saw a lot of seeds and was overwhelmed. As Jean-Patrick wrote, the spur shape of your T.brachyceras
is interesting. Where did you obtain the seeds?
DORA in Nagano
Hi Dora, its great to see your enthusiasm and keen participation with the beautiful Tropaeolums in this forum.
The Trop.brachyceras I grow with the short spur, came originally from a good friend and keen bulb grower, who imported the seed from Chile, perhaps 20-30 ago.
Would you like to try some T.brachyceras seed? You are most welcome, the same for T.azureum, no exchange needed, .
Jean-Patrick would you like to try some as well? or any other keen tropoholics?
BTW: could/would any experienced growers perhaps comment on how fresh seed from our Southern Hemisphere would perform in your Northern Hemisphere condition? The seed being fresh, when sown immediately would they germinate quickly?
Would that be an advance? What do you think J-P?
Hi Bill,
I don't know much about your climate conditions. Have you already sown your own seeds? I think Tropaeolum seeds can germinate if they decide to AND if they find the right conditions :I've ordered seeds from Chile ( as Dora did ) and we've got germinations. The seeds even if fresh could take some time to break their dormancy provided they find the right moment in the season. Where they come from is not probably as important as the way they are sown. That's what I think.
I already knew you for the article and photos on Tropaeolum in the Pacific Bulb Society's web site. That's very kind of you to offer so generously some of your seeds. And , yes, I'm interested ( as many growers I suppose...)
Best Regards
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on November 20, 2009, 10:24:16 PM: Hi Dora,
My Tr MORITZIANUM has grown and flowered very late in the season ( probably much too late to set as many seeds as Bill's plants ).It's my first experience with this one and I've been told seeds had a very short viability.It has only a few seeds-not already ripen- and all the flower buds are now withering. I took 3 cuttings now repotted. I hope at least one of them will be kept alive through winter to produce enough flowers and seeds earlier next year to keep the species in cultivation here in LYON. And maybe share some.
That's really a challenge.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on November 21, 2009, 01:19:30 AM: Hi

Bill, thanks for your warm words and your brachyceras information. The ancestor of your seeds came from Chile so long ago. :o
It's wonderful that the descendant prospers for a long time. I appreciate for your kindness, of course I'd like to have your seeds
and see their spur shape by my eyes. :)

Jean-Patrick already wrote about our challenge for sowing seeds from Chile. I wonder which spur shape will appear in my brachyceras.
Except brachyceras, I sowed leptophyllum, tricolor and hookerianum var. hookerianum from there this season. It's the first time for me to grow leptophyllum and hookerianum var.hookerianum. They germinated well. Maybe they liked the climate and decided to grow here.
It's easy to grow azureum, brachyceras, tricolor and lepidum during winter in my place(Osaka). This season I sowed all the seeds in Nagano, where it's cooler than Osaka. It seems that they begin to germinate when the 24-hr average temperature is falling down to about 15C.

Jean-Patrick, thanks for the information about PBS website. I went and saw there Bill's wonderful Trops again. :)
I think it's mild weather in his place. It might be hard to grow morizianum in your place during cold winter. I hope your challenge for keeping them work well. Next season there will be many flowers and many seeds you can get and some of them will come to me.... :D
I'm always cheering you from Japan. ;)

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tecophilaea King on November 22, 2009, 12:58:52 AM: Quote from: Jean-Patrick AGIER on November 20, 2009, 09:30:41 PM
Hi Bill, I don't know much about your climate conditions. Have you already sown your own seeds? I think Tropaeolum seeds can germinate if they decide to AND if they find the right conditions :I've ordered seeds from Chile ( as Dora did ) and we've got germinations. The seeds even if fresh could take some time to break their dormancy provided they find the right moment in the season. Where they come from is not probably as important as the way they are sown. That's what I think.
I already knew you for the article and photos on Tropaeolum in the Pacific Bulb Society's web site. That's very kind of you to offer so generously some of your seeds. And , yes, I'm interested ( as many growers I suppose...)
Best Regards
J-P, Dora, I don't sow my own Trop. seed until our SH late winter early spring (May-Aug.) when the days are shorter and the temperatures are cooler, they seem to respond better to those conditions with us, and I usually get more than half of the seed germinating.
I still have T.azureum in flower now, of the seed I sown in June and producing seed as well, within 6 months. Not bad don't you think.
It would be interested to see how our Trop seed that i will send you, would react/perform to your NH cooler conditions when sown at once.
Would they germinate quickly or stay dormant? Please let us and the forum know how you got on with the seed from our SH?
Could you and Dora please drop me your full postal address with my own email address. daffodil@xnet.co.nz Good luck, Bill
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Eric Locke on December 12, 2009, 10:03:57 PM: Hi
Following my earlier postings regarding Tropaeolum Tuberosum "Ken Aslet "
After a very good season and a good seed harvest, which I have transported around the globe, I finally got round today to harvesting the tubers. Could not believe that the tubers were growing well above ground after removing the dead top growth. From about 5-6 tubers planted, have a harvest of around two hundred in number of which most are of a very large size of approx 35-40mm dia and around 120mm length. :o :o :o
Photos included of above ground tubers ,harvest from one bulb, entire harvest and a single single bulb.

Eric
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 12, 2009, 10:48:57 PM: I don't grow this species but the tubers almost look edible. Is this likely?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on December 12, 2009, 11:03:03 PM: Lesley, see this PFAF link....
http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Tropaeolum+tuberosum
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Roma on December 12, 2009, 11:15:22 PM: Thanks, Eric. You've just reminded me to harvest my Trop. 'Ken Aslet'. I didn't do it last year and thought I had lost it, but one started growing quite late. It has now died down so I must investigate and se if it has formed any decent sized tubers.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Eric Locke on December 12, 2009, 11:16:59 PM: Many thanks for the link Maggi. Have not seen this before.
Not tried eating any though ,but with so many this year might give them a try. ;)

Eric
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on December 13, 2009, 12:03:48 AM: Good grief!! That is some growth!!!! :o :o
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Eric Locke on December 13, 2009, 09:37:05 PM: Quote from: Paul T on December 13, 2009, 12:03:48 AM
Good grief!! That is some growth!!!! :o :o

Paul - I can only put this down to a daily supply of water via an automatic watering system as this is all that I have done different to past years ,although the longer growth season due to a mild Autumn could be a factor.

Eric
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 13, 2009, 09:43:41 PM: Thanks for the interesting link Maggi. Looks like you're onto a good thing there Eric. You won't starve anyway. ;D

Regarding the anaphrodisiac qualities, I do think that is really beastly of the Andean men to refuse to eat it while encouraging their women to do so. Talk about discrimination and sexism. :o >:( :o
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on December 13, 2009, 09:59:41 PM: Lesley,

Yes, but if it reduces male hormones, wouldn't that mean it works somewhat to the opposite degree in women? ;) Maybe it is having the exactly opposite effect on the women than they are intending? ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on December 13, 2009, 10:11:07 PM: Hi,
Incredible photos Eric!!! Just like a good potatoes harvest ( or Dalhias... ).
Very interesting link Maggi, thank you. Hope I'll be successful with this species next year ( though I always do hope every year... ).
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 13, 2009, 10:46:50 PM: Quote from: Paul T on December 13, 2009, 09:59:41 PM
Lesley,

Yes, but if it reduces male hormones, wouldn't that mean it works somewhat to the opposite degree in women? ;) Maybe it is having the exactly opposite effect on the women than they are intending? ;D

Dunno. I'm sure it's just a male conspiracy to stop women enjoying themselves while they have the best of both worlds. ???
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on December 13, 2009, 10:52:31 PM: Hi
Eric, your tuberosum produced so many child tubers! :o :o :o Great! :D

Maggi, many thanks for the link. It's a useful information for sowing the seeds. ;)

T.smithii(from Chiltern Seeds) started blooming in my place. It's mild winter so far, but I didn't think they flower in this season, so I'm very surprised.

T.smithii No.1 data is as follows:
seed sown --- 29th May,2009.
germination found --- 25th October ,2009.
started flowering --- 8th December,2009.

T.smithii No.2 data is as follows:
seed sown --- 20th September,2009.
germinated --- 3rd October,2009.
started flowering --- 30th November,2009.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on December 13, 2009, 10:56:04 PM: Beautiful, Emiko. Congratulations. 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: west wind on December 13, 2009, 11:21:16 PM: Stunning ,Emiko !!
Thank you for the valuable information.
My T.smithii hasn't germinated yet. :'(

Tazuko
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on December 14, 2009, 10:30:40 AM: Beautiful Emiko. You really do have a way with these plants. :) My T.smithii hasn't germinated yet - I don't know if it will. I only planted some of the seed so I'll try again in the autumn (March or April here in Australia). I am experiencing a bit of a run of bad luck with my Trops, partly to do with moving house no doubt. Not forgetting we've had a baby too and she is taking up lots of our time and energies. I'm hoping next winter/spring will be more fruitful.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on December 14, 2009, 11:45:51 AM: Congratulations on the Bub. How old?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Darren on December 14, 2009, 01:02:44 PM: I love that T smithii!

I have a couple of questions for you trop experts:

1) Plantworld offer 'T.lepidum', is this the same as hookerianum austropurpureum? They look similar.

2) Several years ago I donated loads of T tricolor tubers to a forumist who then distributed them to his SRGC group. This came about because when trying to move my potful of the species (several biggish tubers with lots of shoots on each) in full flower, I accidentally broke off all the shoots by pulling them from the tubers. I quickly stuffed the broken ends back into the pot and watered, fully expecting them to have wilted the next day. They didn't - the shoots re-rooted rather like dahlia cuttings and each made at least one new tuber of it's own. The original tubers also re-sprouted the following autumn. I have never had the nerve to repeat this in case it was a one-off - my question is has anyone else tried this or had it happen?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: maggiepie on December 14, 2009, 02:52:43 PM: Quote from: Eric Locke on December 12, 2009, 10:03:57 PM

Photos included of above ground tubers ,harvest from one bulb, entire harvest and a single single bulb.

Eric

The tubers remind me of Jerusalem artichokes.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on December 14, 2009, 10:09:59 PM: Congratulations Emiko!!! I didn't succeed with Tr SMITHII and I just wonder how you managed to put these young seedlings to flower so quickly? The 2 young plants are really nice.
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on December 15, 2009, 10:42:49 AM: Paul T, my little girl is 23 months old and getting to be quite a handful! She's a bright cookie, I hope she develops her Daddy's love of plants.

Darren - that's a fascinating and harrowing story! I can only imagine how you must have felt at that moment. It's good to know but I don't think I have the stomach to try it myself.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on December 15, 2009, 11:04:10 AM: She sounds lovely. Hopefully she inherits the plant love from you in full! 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Regelian on December 15, 2009, 12:13:12 PM: Hmm, I put my bid in for some Tropaeoleum seed in the exchange and wanted to brush-up on germination technique only to find we are discussing anaphrodisiacal hormones! Maggie, am I missing something good? :P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Susan Band on December 15, 2009, 12:41:30 PM: Darren, I haven't tried that but will in the future. I will report back if it works.
Susan
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Darren on December 15, 2009, 03:12:50 PM: Thank you Susan - only don't try it with anything precious will you?!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: tonyg on December 15, 2009, 04:35:03 PM: Quote from: Darren on December 14, 2009, 01:02:44 PM
2) Several years ago I donated loads of T tricolor tubers to a forumist who then distributed them to his SRGC group. This came about because when trying to move my potful of the species (several biggish tubers with lots of shoots on each) in full flower, I accidentally broke off all the shoots by pulling them from the tubers. I quickly stuffed the broken ends back into the pot and watered, fully expecting them to have wilted the next day. They didn't - the shoots re-rooted rather like dahlia cuttings and each made at least one new tuber of it's own. The original tubers also re-sprouted the following autumn. I have never had the nerve to repeat this in case it was a one-off - my question is has anyone else tried this or had it happen?
I think that you could expect success if you repeat the exercise. My T tricolor occasionally produces lots of offsets. Being so fragile in growth I can believe that mechanical damage has triggered the development of offsets.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 15, 2009, 09:44:22 PM: Welcome to the Forum Tazuko. Lovely that we have another Japanese member. :)

A couple of years ago I broke the only shoot on my T. azureum seedling. I placed it in damp sand and it rooted well and eventually made a small tuber. I've done the same with Oxalis of the branched kind too, such as O. massoniana and hirta. (Not that one needs to, of those, but it's nice to know one CAN. :D)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Darren on December 16, 2009, 08:04:14 AM: Thank you Lesley & Tony, nice to have some evidence that I wasn't imagining it! Like you Tony I do get offsets on tricolor anyway so wouldn't bother with it for propagation purposes but i might be tempted with some others. Interesting that this works with oxalis too, though as you say Lesley - they manage quite well by themselves!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: west wind on December 16, 2009, 11:14:37 AM: Hi Lesley,

Thank you so much for welcoming me.
I've had the same experience as you with T.azureum.
It bloomed while the plant was still short. To my regret,
it didn't produce any tuber,though.
It's new to me that this is also possible with Oxalis.

Not that one needs to, of those, but it's nice to know one CAN. :D
[/quote]

To this , I couldn't agree more.
Curiosity is my middle name. :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on December 16, 2009, 12:14:20 PM: Hi
Thank you, Paul, Tazuko, Jupiter and Jean-Patrick.

Tazuko, keep waiting until your smithii germinate. Trops train us to wait. ;)
It's lucky for me that two seeds germinated and flowered so quickly.

Jean-Patrick, I have no idea why they flowered so soon. ???
I think the weather maybe suited their growth.

Jupiter, a little lady will be a good gardener as she always looks at your work.
Please enjoy to grow Trops with her! :D

Happiness came suddenly. T.tenuirostre, that I got SRGC seed exchange 2008, germinated.
I sowed them on 8th September 2008. At first I'm looking at the pot frequently, but there was no change, so I forgot about the pot.
I found one germination on 10th December 2009. It took more than 1 year!
Only one thing I did was waiting.

So I'd like to say to all people who grows Trops, "Never give up." 8)

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on December 16, 2009, 12:52:44 PM: Tazuko, Emiko, you have given the two most important characteristics for any gardener, I think!
Patience and curiosity!! ;) :) :) 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 16, 2009, 07:54:36 PM: Absolutely agree Maggi. I've grown oranges, mandarins, kiwi fruit and avocados from their seeds too, just to see if I could. Also tried bananas, but couldn't. :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on December 17, 2009, 11:37:43 PM: Quote from: Darren on December 14, 2009, 01:02:44 PM
I love that T smithii!

I have a couple of questions for you trop experts:

1) Plantworld offer 'T.lepidum', is this the same as hookerianum austropurpureum? They look similar.

2) Several years ago I donated loads of T tricolor tubers to a forumist who then distributed them to his SRGC group. This came about because when trying to move my potful of the species (several biggish tubers with lots of shoots on each) in full flower, I accidentally broke off all the shoots by pulling them from the tubers. I quickly stuffed the broken ends back into the pot and watered, fully expecting them to have wilted the next day. They didn't - the shoots re-rooted rather like dahlia cuttings and each made at least one new tuber of it's own. The original tubers also re-sprouted the following autumn. I have never had the nerve to repeat this in case it was a one-off - my question is has anyone else tried this or had it happen?

Darren,

I consider now that seeds offered as Tr LEPIDUM are Tr HOOKERIANUM ssp AUSTROPURPUREUM. We could well discuss weither Tr LEPIDUM has a real taxonomic statement. As ASHLEY pointed it earlier in this topic and following SPARRE's monography it could be a subspecies of Tr AZUREUM with broader flowers and longer & thinnner leaflets. The kind of plant we probably all had grown at least once. But That's my own thinking about this. Maybe a new start to discuss if we could have a look and compare a good number of Tr AZUREUM photos...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Darren on December 18, 2009, 01:13:45 PM: Thank you for answering that J-P.

My own seedlings from plantworld only flowered last year and I didn't get a chance to take a picture but it certainly did look like hookerianum austropurpureum so thank you for confirming that.

Incidentally - Following advice on here and the bulb log (early repot - not too dry or hot afterwards) I now have shoots on T azureum for the second year! This is the first time I have managed this - it always went into a deep dormancy after the first year from seed. This forum is great!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tony Willis on December 18, 2009, 02:35:02 PM: This is my azureum from last year. I have previously grown it frost free but this year it is being grown up around the roof of the greenhouse and is just having its first freeze. Hopefully it will survive this test.

Seed from my plant has never germinated for me.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Darren on December 18, 2009, 04:08:08 PM: It might cope Tony - my tricolor and brachyceras often venture out through the vents and don't get damaged. They also insist on growing between the bubble insulation and the glass where it must get pretty chilly. Tricolor has come up for the second year outside in a bulb frame too (an accidental escape) - and last winter was quite a tough one. I'm told that azureum is more tender though?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 28, 2010, 11:22:50 PM: Hi Everybody,
Well not much news with Tropaeolum by now BUT I have to report recent germination of one Tr SMITHII ( at last... ) more than one year after sowing!!! Emiko was right: we must have to be more than patient!!
The main problem with this poor little seedling is that it chose the worst moment to germinate ( WINTER!)
and I'm not sure whether I'll be able to keep it safe onto next summer.
Any other reports about this species?
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on January 28, 2010, 11:26:49 PM: Well done Jean-Patrick. Unfortunately nothing here yet, after 9 months :P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Giles on January 28, 2010, 11:38:56 PM: I bought some T.smithii from Chiltern Seeds in September.
Sowed it in 2/3 rds multipurpose : 1/3 perlite; watered it with Cheshunt Compond, put it in the fridge for 3 months, then gave it some bottom heat.
Now have about a dozen seedlings ;)
(They still list it - perhaps it was a good batch of seed).
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on January 28, 2010, 11:52:34 PM: Interesting and very impressive Giles. I'll try bringing mine in out of the cold now.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 29, 2010, 10:22:45 PM: Giles,
It's very strange you had such incredible results. I've e-mailed last year Mr WICKENDEN who supplied CHILTERN SEEDS with his Tr SMITHII seed crop and he told me there was no need to give any special treatment. But it's colder now and the seeds may benefit from a "cool" spell?. And you also might have received-as you wrote-seeds with a high germination potential...So You're a lucky skilfull one! Congratulations!
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on January 31, 2010, 01:29:04 AM: Hi, everyone. :)

Jean-Patrick, Giles, congratulation for your new born smithii!
It's winter, hard time indeed, please keep it warm.
My 2 smithii plants keep flowering in my veranda, they're in cool greenhouse at night.

T. hookerianum var. hookerianum (seeds from Chileflora) has started to bloom.
It has yellow flower and smells good.

T. leptophyllum (seeds from Chileflora) has also begun to flower.
But it doesn't look like the catalogue plant.
Is anyone growing this species here?

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 31, 2010, 08:49:59 AM: Quote
T. hookerianum var. hookerianum (seeds from Chileflora) has started to bloom.
It has yellow flower and smells good.

The best of both worlds Dora - this Trop looks very happy and at home with you :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 31, 2010, 08:39:27 PM: The hookerianum is especially good Dora, and with a good smell too! Will the flowers of the lower plant open some more?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on February 01, 2010, 10:44:43 PM: Hello, Emiko,
What a nice Tr HOOKERIANUM...
Your Tr LEPTOPHYLLUM just looks like a clone of Tr TRICOLOR. Maybe Tr x TENUIROSTRE.
There's probably a big mistake on the website: if you have a close look at the Tr LEPTOPHYLLUM pic and check with SPARRE's drawings this is more likely to be something different. Maybe Tr LOOSERI of which I've never seen pics of. The seeds I received ( which never germinated ) didn't look like those of the Andean species ( which are quite big & different from those of the other chilean Trops ). The ones I've sown looked like-say- Tr azureum seeds.
I have sown Tr LEPTOPHYLLUM seeds ( from JJ Archibald ) and they were quite similar to those of Tr INCISUM & Tr POLYPHYLLUM. But-in fact-I've never seen the true Tr LOOSERI seeds and can only speculate about it. I'llbe interested in any report on this from Tropaeolum growers.
Apart from this their Tr BRACHYCERAS photo is more likely to match with Tr x TENUIROSTRE.
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on February 03, 2010, 12:31:05 AM: Hi, everyone. :)

I have about 10 plants of doubtful leptophyllum.
3 plants are flowering now. All of them look like T.tricolor or T.tenuirostre, as Jean-Patrick wrote.
T.tenuirostre, I've never seen flowers. There is one in my place, but it's so small that it seems impossible to see flowers this season.
If it bloomed, I could compare these uncertain leptophyllum with tenuirostre.

Yes, there are many confusion about Tropaeolum species.

Jean-Patrick, your leptophyllum is maybe a correct plant. SPARRE wrote "Tropaeolum leptophyllum is well defined but closely related to T.polyphyllum".
The pics of T.leptophyllum on Chileflora website shows similar to T.incisum or polyphyllum, so I expected this figure for my plant. I hope your T.leptophyllum grow well. :D

I checked JJ Archibald website, but unfortunately　there are no hint now. :'(

The pic is today's my doubtful leptophyllum.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on February 03, 2010, 10:52:09 PM: Emiko,
I've previously posted a pic of Tr X TENUIROSTRE obtained from the seed exchange. You can go back to page 12 of this topic for checking with your plants.
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on February 04, 2010, 02:06:13 PM: Jean-Patrick,
Thanks for your helpful comment.
I saw your photo and compared it with my plant. The flowers look like very similar. But the leaves are different a little.

This pic is some leaves of Tropaeolum species in my garden.
pink zone : T.lepidum(my tuber)
red zone: T.tricolor(upper leaves: my tuber, lower leaves: seed from Chileflora)
green zone: T.leptophyllum(?)(seeds from Chileflora)
yellow zone:T.hookerianum var.hookerianum(seeds from Chileflora)
blue zone:T.azureum(upper leaves: my tuber, lower leaves: my seed)
orange zone:T.brachyceras(upper leaves: seed from Chileflora, lower leaves: my tuber, maybe hybrids)

The leaves of your leptophyllum looks like my brachyceras(seed from Chileflora).
It is only natural because T.tenuirostre is a crossbreed of　brachyceras and tricolor.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on February 05, 2010, 10:28:18 PM: Hello Emiko and everybody,
Just this message to give a useful information with an interesting website in which Tropaeolum pics ( some vary rare Chilean ones ) are put together with botanical description. I'm sure it'll be of interest to most of you. It's in spanish but quite easily understandable and can be translated in english:
http://www.fundacionraphilippi.cl
On the home page click on CHILE NATURAL, then on the FLORA list select TROPAEOLACEAE.
I presume the pics on this site are close to the true species...
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Gerdk on February 06, 2010, 10:14:34 AM: Jean-Patrick,
Thank you for this useful hint! In addition to the Tropaeolum pics there are some most desirable Anemone species, especially A. hepaticifolia.

Gerd
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on February 06, 2010, 12:40:05 PM: Jean-Patrick,
thanks for introducing useful web site.
I wish I could see much more pictures of Tropaeolum...

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on April 01, 2010, 07:31:47 AM: T. tuberosum 'Ken Aslet' has germinated. :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: tonyg on April 01, 2010, 11:25:46 PM: Hi all
Can you help me with this mystery trop?
It came as T azureum from the most reputable of sources. A seedling though and after a long wait the first flowers are clearly not T azureum. The second picture is my T tricolorum for comparison. I am assuming that the mystery plant is a hybrid with T tricolorum blood in it ... unless one of the experts thinks otherwise.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on April 02, 2010, 12:40:46 AM: Hi Tony,

What an interesting tricolor it is!
I agree with you, it is probably a hybrid tricolor.

The pic is mine appeared in 2008.
Mother plant is tricolor, but father unknown.

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 02, 2010, 12:46:05 AM: That hybrid is brilliant Emiko. What a great bunch of flowers. Like yours too Tony. :D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: tonyg on April 02, 2010, 11:32:24 AM: Thanks! Yours is a stunner.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Regelian on April 02, 2010, 12:42:51 PM: Wow, Emiko, what a wonderful hybrid. Like sunshine in a flaming chalice. I still haven't managed to germinate a single Tropaeolum seed. Patience, patience.

Jamie
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tony Willis on April 02, 2010, 03:10:43 PM: What a beautiful hybrid,lovely to see.

Apart from one bracyceras all my tropaeolums have been killed by the cold this winter.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Eric Locke on April 04, 2010, 08:32:30 AM: Quote from: DORA on April 01, 2010, 07:31:47 AM
T. tuberosum 'Ken Aslet' has germinated. :)

Hi Emiko

Pleased to hear that these have started to germinate for you. 8)

Best Wishes from UK

Eric
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 05, 2010, 09:41:12 PM: Emiko,
As usual you've posted an extraordinary pic of one of your hybrids. Congratulations for the 1rst germination on Tr Tuberosum " Ken Aslet". I'm still waiting...

Jaimie: have your exposed your seeds to cold? ( fridge? outside? ). I personnally let the seed pots of all the chilean species outdoors ( with protection from very cold spells so that temperatures never fall under 0°). The andean ones seem to benefit from a layer of snow on the surface of the compost. I've had a few germinations with Tr Polyphyllum this year doing like that. If no seed has germinated by now it might be too late for this year but be patient and many will certainly germinate at the end of this year. Remember that seeds may take 1-2 years ( or more ) to germinate. Last autumn I've got rid of "old" seed pots, putting everything on the surface of big containers. 4 seeds have raised amidst the other plants...( why don't you try some september onwards? )
I've had personnally this year approximately 30% germination rate ( for the chilean ones ).But placed outside the seedlings are growing slowly...
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Eric Locke on April 07, 2010, 07:38:34 PM: Quote from: DORA on April 01, 2010, 07:31:47 AM
T. tuberosum 'Ken Aslet' has germinated. :)

I still have spare seed and also tubers if anyone is interested in an exchange.

Eric
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 14, 2010, 10:38:19 PM: Hi,
Time has probably come to "resurrect" Tropaeolum species which are beginning to bloom.
I intend to post from time to time some pics of the plants settled in LYON's BG / France. The plants grew to incredible heights in the ideal "nest" of a big glasshouse. The first pics are of Tr FINTELMANNII ssp OLMOSENSE, a species from Equator. The plants were put at the base of ladder-like supports for them to climb. All of them didn't succeed for this first year but there's still hope for the future.
Best wihes
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on April 16, 2010, 11:28:17 AM: Hi, everyone. Thanks for your kind messages.

There are many hybrids appeared this year in my place.
But today's pic is T.tenuirostre. The seeds came from SRGC seeds exchange.
Only 1 seed germinated. It has begun to flower from a few days ago.
I'm happy to see this plant blooming, because for me it's the first flower of this species.

As Jean-Patrick says, it's the time for Tropaeolum to "resurrect".
I hope all of your seeds begin to germinate and tubers begin to sprout sooner or later.

Jean-Patrick, your T.fintelmannii is wonderful. It's a interesting project "Tropaeolum ladder".
I am interested in to how much height it grows up.

Best wishes,
DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 16, 2010, 10:32:36 PM: Hi Emiko,
You always post such wonderful photos...Your Tr x Tenuirostre si quite different from the one I've raised from the same seed exchange. But being a hybrid this species can offer many flower combinations.
The plants in Lyon's BG are reaching the top of the glasshouse ( 2 - 3 metres ) and I've bent most of the shoots; So maybe they would have grown up to 4 - 5 meters ( that's the case with Tr x brachyceras and Tr Azureum ). Tr Smithii & Tr Moritzianum would have reached even more because they are more vigorous. Tr Smithii produces dozens of basal shoots and will become "invading". Tr Moritzianum sends stout lateral flowering shoots trying to twine on the other plants...
Her's a pic of the "very beginning" with bare supports and little plants at their base.
Best wishes
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 21, 2010, 09:53:01 PM: Another one from Lyon's BG which we already have seen pictures of: Tr SMITHII
It is becoming a "weed" and seems to flower in "waves". The plant sends many stems form its base.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on April 27, 2010, 10:52:40 PM: Hi Everybody,
2 more pics of Tropaeolum. This is Tr MORITZIANUM a species which seems easier reproduced by cuttings than by sowing seeds. The first one is a cutting established last autumn in Lyon's BG. It is now a huge plant covered in flowers...The 2nd one is a cutting I managed to keep at home and survived from last winter. This is a much more diminutive plant!!! and I don't have any glasshouse....but it's alive!
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on April 29, 2010, 03:40:51 PM: Hi
Just a quick update. This winter has been the coldest in western Scotland for thirty or forty years and I have lost a large number of plants in my unheated greenhouse. Thank goodness I have a fair number of seeds, but it will take some time to build up my collection again. On a brighter note I have seedlings of the following tender species T. peltophorum, T. peregrinum, T. argentinum, T. moritzianum, T. smithii "Cally" and most pleasingly (and most surprisingly) T. smithii "Cotswold Garden Flowers". This last from seed sown in April 2009 and left outside all winter in the cold greenhouse. This leads me to a possible new germination technique. Let some seeds fall into the sand plunge, freeze them all winter and they come up like cress in the spring. The only problem is knowing what species you have (I think T. smithii "Cally").

[attachthumb]
Tropaeolum seedlings in plunge

Finally for now if anyone is interested In large amounts of information on Mashua (T. tuberosum) here is the site for you. Go to Google Books and type in Mashua: Tropaeolum tuberosum Ruíz & Pav. into the search box
The first book to come up should be the one you are looking for. Sorry its so roundabout but I cant find an easier way

Best of luck
Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on April 29, 2010, 04:35:28 PM: Try this link: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IX38rY6s6PYC&pg=PA29&dq=Mashua:+Tropaeolum+tuberosum+Ru%C3%ADz+%26+Pav.&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on May 09, 2010, 10:36:58 PM: Hi,
Following Steven's report I can write on Tr SMITHII " Cally". Last year I've had great concerns on its germination. So I've tried to sow seeds everywhere. Some I planted in a container along with a mix of different plants. I forgot about it and in Autumn the container was moved out of my balcony to my car parking place. There it stayed for 3 months, had the snow cover & the cold. I brought it back to my protected balcony in January. In March one Tr SMITHII seed germinated.( It took me some time to remember which species it might be ). That's very interesting and I think I'll go on experimenting this way with some other ones ( especially Tr ARGENTINUM which seems as tricky to me as Tr SMITHII is ). Hope this report will be of some help to all Tr growers on this forum.
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on May 25, 2010, 04:15:21 PM: Hi

I don't think that the Tropaeolum pages have a picture of T. rhomboideum so here it is.

[attachthumb=1]

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 16, 2010, 10:16:23 PM: Another tropaeolum grown this year in Lyon's BG: Tropaeolum x TENUIROSTRE. The flowers look like those of Tr TRICOLOR but the spur is smaller and the flowers are more colourful. The calyx edges fade to green when aged which is not so clear on the first pic. One flower on the up & right part of the photo shows this particularity.
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on June 17, 2010, 12:42:51 AM: Glorious pics everyone. So many wonderful species I've only ever seen in the pics on these pages. Fantastic!! 8)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul Cumbleton on June 19, 2010, 10:55:30 AM: Now (in the northern hemisphere anyway!) our tropaeolum are dormant, what do people find is the best way to treat them while dormant? Completely dry or with a little moisture? Cool or warm? I would be interested to know your experience

Thanks

Paul
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Hans J on June 19, 2010, 01:44:40 PM: here are pics from my T.peregrinum ( sown in March )

Hans
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on June 19, 2010, 01:53:00 PM: Wow, Hans. The flower is amazing. So you sowed these 3 months ago and they've already germinated and are flowering? :o :o
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Hans J on June 19, 2010, 02:29:41 PM: Paul ,

they are easy !
You can buy seeds in each gardencenter ...sowing like T.majus ( here in my room ) they grow fast and it is nessecary to give it a little help for climbing.
Later I have plantet 3 seedlings in a pot and they are quick on the roof ....

The flowers are really small :o -so I'm not shure if I will sow it again in next year .... :-\
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on June 19, 2010, 02:37:23 PM: In mild areas T.peregrinum is perennial but here in Scotland and in other colder places, it is mostly grown as an annual.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Hans J on June 19, 2010, 03:31:50 PM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropaeolum_peregrinum

Hans
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 20, 2010, 10:34:16 PM: Quote from: Wisley on June 19, 2010, 10:55:30 AM
Now (in the northern hemisphere anyway!) our tropaeolum are dormant, what do people find is the best way to treat them while dormant? Completely dry or with a little moisture? Cool or warm? I would be interested to know your experience

Thanks

Paul

Hi Paul,
I don't think whether cool or warm would be important. I personnally offer very bad conditions to them in summer ( south-west exposure, high temperatures ). I try to protect the pots from too much warmth and sun of course. I know many others growers can offer the cooler conditions of a well exposed glasshouse or a protected part of their garden. BUT the most important point to me is not to allow the compost to be completely dry. I've read many articles and reports on this, particularly about Tr AZUREUM. If the tuber goes dry it will fall into a period of slumber from which it might be difficult to rise. The conditions in the wild must be tried to be mimicked. In Chile not all the species grow, flower and set seeds regularly. There may be a gap of 1, 2 or more years without flowers or seeds depending on the wheather conditions the tubers find. But this is not special to tropaeolum. The same happens for many summer dormant bulbs. Have you find difficulties on keeping and/ or making the tubers re-start to grow?
Talking about Tr AZUREUM here are pics of the one which grew in LYON's BG this spring. It has been grown from seed 4 years ago and have always re-sprouted since then.
Regards
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on June 21, 2010, 01:36:07 AM: Hans,

At times it is truly amazing what is offered in European garden centres. ;D But then you guys can buy Galanthus in flower by the tray mail-order. You're all terribly spoiled. ;D ;D ;)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 25, 2010, 10:34:28 PM: Tropaeolum ARGENTINUM...at last!!!
I've sown MANY seeds of this species ( from my 2008 harvest and the few ones obtained from Chiltern seeds and the exchanges ). Absolutely NO results for 8 months whatever the exposure. So I decided to try the seeds harvested on the plant I grew ( by chance... ) last year. Those seeds didn't have enough time to ripe correctly I presume because the plant was starting to wither ( October / November 2009 ). They were very bad looking ( very thin & small not like the "plump" seeds I've sown previously ) so I doubted they could have any germination potential and didn't dare to offer them through the exchanges. 5 days ago I decided to try to sow them. 3 seedlings have appeared!!
This leads me to the very surprising conclusion that even the worst looking seeds can bring good surprises...
Have I triggered by chance their germination? Have Tr ARGENTINUM seeds a limited viability?
I would be most interested in reports from other Tropaeolum growers.
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on July 28, 2010, 04:17:14 PM: Hi Jean-Patrick

Good news! I hope that your plants have time to flower and produce seeds.

My argentinum have grown and flowered well

[attachthumb=1]

Tried to escape from my little greenhouse

[attachthumb=2]

Attracted the local insects

[attachthumb=3]

And started to produce seed

[attachthumb=4]

So lets hope for enough to continue our search for an easier way to produce germination.

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on August 06, 2010, 10:08:53 PM: Another Tropaeolum ( of the Polyphyllum group ) which hasn't been discussed a lot in this topic: Tr INCISUM. This year for the first time ever it flowered for me. A "kind of magic"! Hope it's not the last...The plant grew well upright and not trailing ( which seems quite strange to me ) and had just the time to flower before beeing caught by the heat wawe in June. Sadly no seed produced. Many thanks to Susan BAND who provided top quality tubers!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on August 10, 2010, 09:28:30 PM: Tropaeolum MORITZIANUM has been grown successfully in a glasshouse of LYON's BG. Many seeds have been collected and kept in the BG seed bank. I've kept a few for my own use and think I can offer them to some of the Tropaeolum enthusiasts of this forum who would like to grow it. As I previously wrote, this is a rewarding annual species which deserves to be more widespread. So that anyone in the future could easily ask for it.
Many thanks -again-to Steven whose generosity made it possible.
Only a few seeds for the 10 first requests.
So...
Jean-Patrick
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on August 12, 2010, 08:34:25 AM: Tropaeolum tricolor is back in flower again - in the middle of winter.
[attachthumb=1]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Tecophilaea King on August 13, 2010, 05:29:16 AM: I am pleased to report that the first of some of the exchanged Tropaeolum seed has germinated, with hopefully many more to come.
I am not sure if any or more of the remaining pots outside will germinate, considering the renowed unpredictable nature of the seed.
Don't worry, I will percevere with pacience and good cultural practise and will keep every tropoholic informed of this exciting venture.
Many thanks to Steven McFarlane, J-P, Emiko Tsujii, Michael Götz, Eric Locke, Tazuka Ouuma, for their generous, valuable contrbutions.
That's what I like about the SRGC forums, we're one big happy family. :) :)
Tropaeolum beuthii
Tropaeolum hookerianum
Tropaeolum X lepidum
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on August 13, 2010, 10:26:38 AM: Exactly, Bill, and we enjoy doing what other families do.... exchange "baby" photos- Your new Tropo babies are coming along nicely! ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Eric Locke on August 13, 2010, 11:15:30 PM: ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on August 18, 2010, 11:35:14 AM: Hi everyone,

At first, J-P，many thanks for offering your T. moritzianum seeds. Next season it won’t be good environment for growing Tropaeolum because of a major renovation of our condominium. But I’d like to challenge to grow them indoors.

Steven, your T.argentinum is wonderful!!
There was no germination this spring in my place , so I hope they start to germinate in autumn.
I’d like to know a secret of success to let them germinate.

Bill, congratulation!! You've gotten so many seedlings, we’re looking forward to seeing their flowers.

Now, it’s summer in Japan. It’s abnormal weather, very hot summer. Even in Nagano, the maximum temperature exceeds 30 degrees recently every day. It’s extraordinary. Almost Tropaeolum had dried out.

Under this environment, some T.smithii still keep flowering though the number of flowers decreases. It's amazing. T.tuberosum is alive, but I couldn’t see flowers at all this season. Maybe it’s too hot for it to bloom. So I hope to see its flowers next spring.

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Steven McFarlane on August 20, 2010, 01:02:59 PM: Hi everyone

I thought that I should update you on the "other" T. smithii. This is the plant that I received from Gary Fisher of Cotswold Garden Flowers and that I thought I had lost. As I mentioned earlier this year a few seeds germinated in April, about a year after sowing, having spent the winter in my unheated greenhouse. Since then the plants have grown well, flowered and started to produce a few seeds. Hopefully this will allow me to keep it going and perhaps have enough seed to offer a few later this year.

[attachthumb=1]

[attachthumb=2]

I have been trying to get the plant properly identified but without any luck so far. Perhaps someone can help. Whatever its correct name it is a pretty flower and should be kept in cultivation.

Steven
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 20, 2010, 10:55:21 PM: Another pic of Tr RHOMBOIDEUM
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: ashley on September 22, 2010, 01:38:46 PM: Tropaeophiles will be very interested in Curtis' Botanical Magazine September issue (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/curt.2010.27.issue-3/issuetoc).
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: pehe on September 24, 2010, 10:29:11 AM: Tropaeolum tuberosum 'Ken Aslett' in the garden today. In the Greenhouse tricolorum is about 20cm.

Poul
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Regelian on October 02, 2010, 06:06:26 PM: OK, I'm excited! One seed from the last SRGC seed exchange had germinated...and is growing wildly. Have no idea what it is other than a hybrid and can't wait until we get some flowers. Do you think I should pot it up directly into a larger pot with a sandy loam mix? It is in a 4x4 seedling pot at the moment. How much root run do they generally like? Manno, this is exciting. My first seedling after trying for I don't know how many years.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: fermi de Sousa on October 04, 2010, 07:15:59 AM: Tropaeolum azureum is back in flower after taking a year or two off!
[attachthumb=1]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on October 04, 2010, 11:49:49 AM: Haven't posted here for a long time, Tropaeolum season is in full swing in the Southern Hemisphere now. I have flowers on a seedling germinated this year, seed sold as T.lepidum, but seeing the flowers and comparing to photographs online I'm thinking it COULD be mislabeled? Looks a lot like pictures I've seen of T. hookerianum ssp. atropurpureum. Can anyone help me ID the plant?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on October 04, 2010, 12:31:10 PM: Congrats Fermi!

Excellent purple on that last one Jupiter. Never seen a Trop like it.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Darren on October 04, 2010, 03:02:22 PM: Jupiter - you are correct. I had seeds under the same name (lepidum) and they were kindly identified by other forumists as T hookerianum austropurpureum.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on October 04, 2010, 05:42:36 PM: Jupiter, those photos are terrific... the detail of the markings on the calyx and spur is great!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 04, 2010, 08:59:59 PM: Buds on my azureum but still some way off flowering. So far the seedlings from M.I. which germinated last year have not reappeared. :'(
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on October 04, 2010, 09:51:23 PM: Thanks Darren, I think that's right, it definitely looks like hookerianum. I'm glad actually, that's another one that was on my wish list. The second photo with the darker colouring is actually the same group of flowers at an earlier stage. I had to go away for 3 days so took one photo before we left and on returning the group had all opened fully and faded out slightly. I agree, a stunning colour; I'm tickled pink. :D There are more buds expanding so it'll be blooming for quite some time I hope.

This years seedlings of azureum yet to even form flower buds, so fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Giles on October 06, 2010, 11:22:55 AM: You might like to know:
This quarter's edition of Curtis's Botanical Magazine (Volume 27, Part 3; September 2010) is devoted to Tropaeolum section Chilensia.
Single volumes can be bought from the publisher. (Wiley - Blackwell).
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on October 08, 2010, 10:04:19 PM: Thank you Giles for the tip, I'm going to try to obtain a copy of that journal issue. There isn't much published on Tropaeolum apart from the massive volume of Flora of Chile (I believe).

Here is a photograph of my Tropaeolum hookerianum ssp. austropurpureum, to sustain all you Trop. addicts through the off season:
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on October 09, 2010, 11:00:22 PM: Quote from: Regelian on October 02, 2010, 06:06:26 PM
OK, I'm excited! One seed from the last SRGC seed exchange had germinated...and is growing wildly. Have no idea what it is other than a hybrid and can't wait until we get some flowers. Do you think I should pot it up directly into a larger pot with a sandy loam mix? It is in a 4x4 seedling pot at the moment. How much root run do they generally like? Manno, this is exciting. My first seedling after trying for I don't know how many years.

Hi Jaimie,
Don't panic...Tropaeolum seedlings usually burrow quite deeply to reach the bottom of the seedpot and try to escape from the drainage holes. You can wait and check the bottom to see if there's any fleshy root appearing. At this stage you'll have 2 options: very carefully remove the seedling with its compost and repot it in a deeper container ( 10 cm deep at least ). 2nd option would be to carefully cut the bottom of your seedpot an put it into a deeper one. so that the root can find its way easily.
Tropaeolum root system develop long before the shoots. Especially for the Andean ones ( Tr Polyphyllum, Incisum, Sessilifolium... and these ones need much more deeper pots than the other Chilean species )

Good luck with this first seedling!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: KenP on October 12, 2010, 11:05:23 AM: Hi everyone - new to this thread and VERY inexperienced with Trops.
I was looking for different climbers and bought some Tuberosum "Ken Aslet" and Speciosum seeds in September.
Potted the seeds and sank them in soil outside thinking that if I was very lucky some might germinate next spring.
To my surprise I have two Tuberosum seedlings already - one about 5cm high the other 3.
So my question is how do I treat these seedlings now? Do I leave them outside over winter? Bring them into a coolish conservatory before frost?
Keep them wet (or dryish????).
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Ken

UK Midlands
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on October 12, 2010, 12:04:16 PM: Hello Ken and welcome to the SRGC Forum.

Up here in Aberdeen I think I'd be inclined to get the pots into a glasshouse, even unheated, just to give them a little extra protection over winter.... but since you have the pots plunged in the soil outside then it might be good enough to give a cover overwinter to keep the worst of the wet and frost off them. A glass cloche or something similar.... they'll need some air, of course.

Some folks nearer your part of the country will have a better idea of how the seedlings may react, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Brian Ellis on October 12, 2010, 12:11:03 PM: Have to agree with Maggi there Ken, welcome to this wonderful world of gardening experience. We grow T.'Ken Aslet' outside in East Anglia, I always bring a tuber in for insurance during the winter, but even last winter the tubers, in the shelter of a Garrya eliptica, survived. A mulch would be well advised as the tubers will only be quite small.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Regelian on October 12, 2010, 02:40:52 PM: Jean-Patrick,

thanks for the advice. The root was already emerging from the pot bottom, so it was definitely time. Fingers crossed I can keep it alive and well.

Jamie
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: KenP on October 22, 2010, 04:19:56 PM: Thanks for the advice. Outside it is then - I have a cold frame so may put them in there. Still only 2 of the T. tuberosum germinated and none of the T. Speciosum :(
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on October 22, 2010, 09:39:58 PM: The T.azureum I grew from seed have started flowering, 1st season, which I'm pretty happy about. The colour of these flowers is stunning, they are very dark purplish/blue, compared with my former T.azureum which was more pale blue. Anyone else noticed this variation in flower colour?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Maggi Young on October 22, 2010, 09:50:25 PM: Yes, Jupiter, there is considerable variation of flower colour in Trop. azureum.
Some very pale blues are not nearly so attractive.
I haven't seen one as dark as yours... very nice!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on October 23, 2010, 08:45:39 AM: Wow, Jupiter. Congratulations on such an excellent colour. I have seed down of azureum (I've been wanting to grow it for ages, so was very grateful to receive some seed last season), but no germination this year. Hopefully it is just being tardy, and will come up next year. I am keeping my fingers crossed. ;D
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on October 23, 2010, 09:01:33 AM: Paul, they can take ages, as you likely know, don't lose hope. Would you like some of my seed? I'm happy to post you some as I have spare.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on October 23, 2010, 09:37:08 PM: Here's a strange tropaeolum raised from seed last spring. It has obviously Tr Tricolor in its parentage.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on October 24, 2010, 10:07:45 AM: Jean-Patrick, that is fantastic! What a striking hybrid. I hope it does well for you.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Regelian on October 24, 2010, 12:21:02 PM: Jean-Patrick,

very different colouring, kind of like flaming gold coins or golden asteroids glowing in the atmosphere. Do you think it will prove hardy outside?

By the way, I potted on my seedling and it looks good, but has stopped growing (above ground at least). How long does it take to first blooms? 1 year or so?

Ciao,

Jamie
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on October 24, 2010, 09:13:29 PM: Quote from: Regelian on October 24, 2010, 12:21:02 PM
Jean-Patrick,

very different colouring, kind of like flaming gold coins or golden asteroids glowing in the atmosphere. Do you think it will prove hardy outside?

By the way, I potted on my seedling and it looks good, but has stopped growing (above ground at least). How long does it take to first blooms? 1 year or so?

Ciao,

Jamie

Jamie,

Most Tropaeolum seedlings are able to flower in their first season ( with the exception of Tr Ciliatum and some Andean species ). So, maybe next spring...

And I won't run the risk of letting a hybrid outside without protection.
Best wishes
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Jupiter on October 25, 2010, 09:45:54 AM: I've had no luck germinating Tr ciliatum, any tips? Maybe I should have done a more thorough stratification?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 26, 2010, 10:02:27 AM: Quote from: Jean-Patrick AGIER on October 23, 2010, 09:37:08 PM
Here's a strange tropaeolum raised from seed last spring. It has obviously Tr Tricolor in its parentage.

A really interesting looking Tropaeolum Jean-Patrick, I love the little flower and the colour with the leaf :)
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: DORA on November 14, 2010, 05:21:00 AM: Hi, everyone.

Extraordinary hot summer ended and Tropaeolum season has started in Japan.
Thank you, Bill, from your seeds, 5 brachyceras and 1 azureum germinated. They're growing well now.

Thanks to Jean-Patrick, I could see the first flower of T.argentinum. It has just begun flowering!
I sowed the seeds on 23 September. 3 of them germinated within a week or so. I found some flower buds at the end of October. I'm very surprised at rapid growing.

Jean-Patrick, your hybrid looks like T. tenuirostre, that is a hybrid between tricolor and brachyceras. It's lovely.

DORA
Title: Re: Tropaeolum
Post by: Paul T on November 15, 2010, 01:00:18 AM: That last species look a bit like a dragon head. VERY cool. 8)