Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Iris => Topic started by: Hans A. on February 23, 2008, 05:29:46 PM
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The first one started to flower today in my garden - Iris kirkwoodii ssp. calcarea.
Second foto taken one day later at 24th of february.
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Beautiful
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Thanks Arthur - this species is very variable - and I hope I will be able to show some more later on.
Very interesting is also the foto of biodiversite (thread Aril Society) - when you compare it with the superb pictures of the actual BIS Bulletin - it is easy to find it similar to the fotos of I.kirkwoodii ssp. kirkwoodii var. macropetala.
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Here is the link http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1250.0 .
Please could you explain how to differenciate the different ssp ?
Moreover I ordered in Germany ssp. calcarea last year : what are his particularities ?
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@biodiversite - I.kirkwoodii has two ssp. and one var.
I.k.ssp.calcarea normally has slightly bluish standards, vains tend to violet - it is distributed in the area of San Simeon /Syria
I.k. ssp. kirkwoodii var. macropetala has white Standards lack blue vained mor brrown and the flower is larger (diameter 20 cm - Falls 10cm long) this var. should grow in the surroundings of El Bara/ Syria
I. k. ssp. kirkwoodii which have flowered here lack the bluish standards and violet vains (Turkish origin).
To make it a bit more difficult:
Some seedlings (Archibald seed) have to flower still - this should be a I. k.ssp. k - this one is bluish ::)
Unfortunally i have never been in Syria or Turkey to study this treasures in their natural habitat.
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To complete the list here a dark form of Iris kirkwoodii ssp. kirkwoodii. (picture of 2007)
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ouah :o ! If you want to swap a rhizome with one of my strain this summer, it's without problem ;)
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Why not. ;) 8) ;D - but even about a few seeds of your beautyful strain i would be very glad.
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Another Oncospecies started to bloom here in Spain: Iris paradoxa - it never has been so early ::)
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Not as spectacular as Rafas I. afghanica - but also fine: Iris sari :)
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Hans,
they are realy beauties!
I. paradoxa is exiting to me.
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Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!-if only I could grow them :(
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Hans I think we have to do an Aril Iris Picture Championship ;D
So you e-mailed me Iris kirkwoodii ssp. kirkwoodii? It was too soon to see in bloom your Iris susiana...
It comes to a point that they all look the same to me!!
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Hans I think we have to do an Aril Iris Picture Championship ;D
So you e-mailed me Iris kirkwoodii ssp. kirkwoodii? It was too soon to see in bloom your Iris susiana...
It comes to a point that they all look the same to me!!
;D - lets see what will flower here the next time ;) -
Rafa, to tell the true - I do not know what it is on the foto I send you - it could be near I.sofarana or a hybrid - the flowers are large and differ in shape of I.kirkwoodii I grow.
Some Opinions?
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Spectacular!! What a flower!!!!!!! :o That beautiful "fan" appearance of the standards, and the glrious markings all over. Wow, just doesn't do it justice!! :D
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Splendid! Hans,
Is your turn mate!!
Note: I wrong labeled the pictures, it is Iris iberica ssp. lycotis
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Is envy really a sin? ;D
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David! sorry I havn't answered your message. I don't remeber any name of the Iris seeds I sent you :-\
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David! sorry I havn't answered your message. I don't remeber any name of the Iris seeds I sent you :-\
OK Rafa, thanks for trying. Just wait a couple of years and I will post the pictures, then you can tell me ;D
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Sure!! I also hope to grow those seeds successfully
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Is envy really a sin? ;D
Not when you're looking at plants like that David ! ;D
Another stunner Rafa !!
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Rafa,
Wow! Double Wow! and Triple Wow!! :o
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Thanks to all of you.
Rafa, congratulations, your lycotis is just stunning - perfect photos!
Every single flower of this treasures is so special - a "competition" would make no sence - every new bud produces a smile on my face (it starts to hurt at the moment ;) 8)) - equally of which species it is.
I have the good luck to live in a region where this plant can be grown quiete easy compared with central europe or Scotland and I admire everybody who is able to cultivate them there.
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Hans,
your oncos are just fantastic!!!
And this is iris paradoxa from our region (very dark form with blakish purple flowers)
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Glorious paradoxa!! What a flower!! :o Very nice. 8)
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Simply stunning :o :o
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Fantástic! Boyed. :o :o :o
It is a pleasure to see this species in their natural inhabits!
Thanks for sharing
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Hans,
your oncos are just fantastic!!!
And this is iris paradoxa from our region (very dark form with blakish purple flowers)
What a beautiful colour on a beautiful plant.
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I think the dark purple on Zhirair's Iris paradoxa is the darkest colour purple I have seen on any wild iris apart from the Jordanian, Iris petrana.... I know that some of the cultivated bearded forms are pretty dark, but this is a natural stunner! 8)
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Maggi,
Really, all the onco lovers I know, say that it is the darkest iris paradoxa they've ever seen. I do think that it is special
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Wow - great pics Zhirair! You and Maggie are right, I cannot remember to have seen such a blackish-blue in any wild Iris- fantastic!
I hope I. petrana and I. nigricans will flower this year - as Maggie told they are also dark but lacking the blue.
A plant which I received as Iris paradoxa f. choschab will flower today - I have some doubts about its identy when I post the photo you will see why...
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Hans,
I'll look forward to seeing the photo of iris paradoxa var. choschab. We'll see what's the case
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Sure this is a distinct form than other paradoxa. Maybe is the same darker paradoxa described by Prasil as "forma Sevan" that maby grows in other areas different from typoe location.
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Rafa,
populataion of iris paradoxa near the lake Sevan is considerably lighter than the ones growing in our region.
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This is the plant which I received as "f.choschab" last year- it is not - checking the catalog of Ruksans of 2007 the only other offerd was above mentioned "Sevan".
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Really?!! so this population you have located could be most darkest of paradoxas forms!
thank you for the info.
Hans, your paradoxa are blooming now, another time? ???
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Hans, your paradoxa are blooming now, another time? ???
Rafa, this is not the same plant of the earlier post - the plant of post 8 is not flowering again - it never has stopped 8) - first flowers were in november and it still has flowers and buds. ;D
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How do I wake my Iris sari? As instructed it has been bone dry in the glasshouse all winter
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Hans,
Of course, true; your iris paradoxa is not choschab. Anyway, it looks very beutiful and somewhat resembles our forms. I might originate from a different place, not necessarily from Sevan, as this species grow in different localities.
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How do I wake my Iris sari? As instructed it has been bone dry in the glasshouse all winter
I'd give it a thorough soaking and wait for growth.
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now in flower:
Iris iberica ssp. iberica
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Hello Gerhard, wonderful plant in an unique colour :D - is this one grown from seed of Tbilisi Botanical Garden?
Mark I would water your sari and keep it outside but rain protected - when growth has started it can be watered normal - do not forget a (very) good drainage.
Zhirair you are right - this paradoxa is also very beautyful - and I am now I am glad I received this one - today with sun the colouration was very special and different to my other paradoxas.
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WOW, :o :o beautiful Iris in light/shadow exposition! really nice picture.
Congratulations Gerdhard,
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Two photos of today: Iris kirkwoodii ssp. kirkwoodii started and my I. paradoxa which does not want to stop to flower - contrast can hardly be bigger...
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what great pictures 8) 8) 8)
Thanks for posting!
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Historical pictures from a trip to Turkey in 1998,these are scans from paper prints,so please excuse
the poor quality.
One of our highlights was the find of Iris paradoxa f.chochab near Hosap (Choschab) in Eastern
Turkey, the other plant was found beside the rubbish dump of Van while waiting for the bus to Trabzon,
wonder if it still exists! I still don't know the name and would be grateful for identification.
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Amazing pics guys :o :o Although is not easy to identified some colours the form of last paradoxa remeber me this one
http://www.badbear.com/signa/signa.pl?Display+Iris-paradoxa+9+1 which I think it could be "mirabilis" form.
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Rafa, thanks for the quick reply,I understand,that an exact identification by such a photo is not
possible. Nowadays these things are quite easier by the blessings of modern technolgy.
Nevertheless the experience of finding these floral gems in such barren places is still unforgetable
for us.
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:o :o Wow - thanks for the photos - especially the second is really interesting!
There are some histories around about paradoxas with pure white standards and yellow beard in the Van area which should grow together with the more common "f. choschab". Apart of the unusual colours it is an extremly large paradoxa clump.
Here I. iberica ssp. elegantissima has started - it is one of the easiest and most beautyful Oncos to grow in central europe (bulbframe) - here in southern europe the iberica - group is not easy at all.
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Hans,
My absolute "Holy Grail" Iris. I had it once and lost it. I'm sure you could hear me crying from all the way over there on the other side of the world. :'( Stunning flower.
I think that kirkwoodii ssp kirkwoodii is getting up there with it for desirability though. Hopefully one day I can manage to grow both of them, but until then I'll just have to enjoy them here.
Thanks for the wonderful pics everyone.
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Gerhard,
your iris iberica ssp. iberica looks very unique by its unusaul colour. Here is a photo of this species, which grows in the north of our country near the border with Georgia.
Hans,
your pictures are just astonishing!!! I get a great pleasure out of watching them. Your ris paradoxa resembles by its colour our Sevan stock. Iris iberica ssp. elegantisima is wonderful! It grows in the surroundings of our capital Yerevan, but I still can't find the exact locality. Nevertheless I hope that this year I will succeed.
By the way, have you tried to grow oncos from seed. I heard and read that it takes very long (several years) for the seeds to germinate. Is it possible to get them germinate the next year after sowing? Maybee there are some special treatments?
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Zhirair,
I'd imagine that repeated stratification in and out of the fridge would help compress years together into a shorter time. I think that Irises needed about 8 weeks of cold for their stratification (if memory serves me.... I used to dabble very slightly with breeding bearded iris) and then about 6 weeks of warmth before the next cold period. That means you could get a "year" of normal temperatures into a few months, and if you repeated this until you observed germination you should be able to bring the dormancy period down. I don't recall whether breaking through the seed coat of iris was particularly helpful or not, as with many other things that take a while to germinate. I guess it would be worthwhile trying it out on some common iris seeds to see what happens, i.e clipping a piece off the surface of the seed or using some sandpaper to get through the outer coat. I've not tried this with irises, which is why I'd suggest trying it on something common first!! ;)
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Paul,Zhirair, thanks a lot.
Glad you like the pics. Among the plants I grow Oncos are my favorites and I am glad it is possible to grow them here in the garden – the northern species sometimes cause some trouble (and I also lost plants of I. iberica ssp. elegantissima and I. iberica ssp. lycotis :'()
I think there are 3 different ways to germinate oncos by seeds:
1.Natural germination
– fresh seed can germinate quickly –I have a few small plants of my last year harvest (I. paradoxa )– older seed need more time but often after two or three years they also germinate.
2.Forced Germination
– in opening the seed where the embryo is situated and a fridge treatment germination can be forced – Rafa described this method in this forum perfectly.
3.Embryo Culture
– isolating embryo and grow it under sterile conditions in an Agar based Medium.
I practice first and third method – as embryo culture is some work and the results are not always as expected I am thinking about changing to forced germination and natural germination.
Paul I have never tried stratification of Onco seed – I should give it a try – possibly GA3 also works.
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Hans,
So, the oncos don't need a cold period for germination then? Interesting. Never tried them myself as yet, so no idea.
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Paul,
Isolated Oncocyclus Embryos do not need a cold period (Regelia - embryos need cold!)- Important for natural germination seems to be - as you mentioned - a porous seed coat.
Green seed can germinate in autumn without any cold.
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also, Diane Whithead has tried with succes in Iris acutiloba ssp. lineolata just removing the aril and the skin.
Zhirair have a look at this link http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=847.0
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Hans, Rafa,
Thanks a lot for your useful advises. I also read Rafa's explanations about growing oncos from seeds. Anyway, I think that natural germination is the best way for inexperienced growers or the beginners. I was thinking of the other ways in case if I receive seed from abroad and of course, in this case natural germination will not be the best choice as the seeds will not be so fresh as needed. Anyway, last year I sowed some seeds of iris paradoxa right after collecting and so soon I will see if they germinate this year.
The other case I wonder if seedlings will survive in pots. As I noticed all oncos need super drainage, which is not always possible to provide for the potted plants.
Some comments from my experience.
Last year I collected some iris paradoxa during flowering and replanted them in my garden. Around 7 samples I planted in a big pot and very soon the all potted plants died because the excessive moisture. But the plants in the garden, in spite of periodical rains, continued growing happily. So I made a conclusion that Iris parodoxa is not difficult even in moister conditions is the case if extra drainage is provided . It is not afraid of extreme colds as well. For example, last year all the summer was very rainy, but oncos continued grow normally and no plant died. I also think that planting oncos in sloppy places also a good thing to avoid water flooding.
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Zhirair, I am agree with you, natural germination is better, but I think you have a great opportunity (that we obviously haven't) to practice growing from seeds the Onco Iris from your country, with any method, and you could see which is the better.
Most of us can get some seeds and they are very few so we have to decide what it's the best: to wait several years, without guarantees of success or to find methods that not take so many time to see the results.
In my little experience, Iris paradoxa is the most easy grow oncocyclus it is very tolerant with moisture and cold as you noticed, but if you grow it in a pot water+hard frost = rotten. If it has moisture during summer it won't be in dormancy. In culture, the rhizoma has to be between gravel layers maybe 2 cm up and 1cm down the rhizome and then a good drained soil.
Note: You know better than us how they grow in the nature, so yo just can imitate their natural conditions (type of soil etc.. )
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The only Oncos I grow in (clay) pots are new ones or when I have some doubts if they could virused - certainly with best drainage.
All the other are growing in my elevated rockery - beds. Sometimes I think the drainage is to good for some plants because they react positive on watering (annual rainfall about 800mm in my area) - but even in the open ground with best water- and air circulation rot can occure and kill a large plant with many fans in a very short period of time.
Certainly it is right, natural germination can last much time (some of my pots about 5 years without any germination) - but normally you get some seedlings in less time.
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now in flower (all my oncos are in pot culture) :D
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Gerhard,
your iris iberica ssp. iberica looks very unique by its unusaul colour. Here is a photo of this species, which grows in the north of our country near the border with Georgia.
Yes of course, you are right.This is a plant I`ve got labeled as I. iberica ssp. elegant. from Ruksans.You`ll agree that this is incorrect.
There is a ident plant shown on Mayr`s page (the best one of oncos) which is id as I. iberica ssp. iberica.
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A real beauty Gerhard !
These onco's never cease to amaze me :o
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Gerhard,
The striping on the acutiloba is very striking. I always wonder whether these iris look as good in person as they do in pictures! :D I guess we get way more detail in some ways in the pictures, while they just don't quite "capture" the whole flower like the real thing. I am so very much enjoying this topic. Thanks all. 8)
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Wow Gerhard - Glorious picture of your acutiloba lineolata! I supose after showing your other photo Janis Ruksans will have sold all his Iris iberica ssp. elegantissima for this year ;)
Two other plants opened its flowers :D
Iris sari "Yellow Form" and Iris paradoxa f. choschab
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I have not visited this site for a while and what wonderful photos are appearing. Here in South Australia the arils are finally starting to show green new leaves above ground after a very long dry summer (thank goodness in some ways). We have had 8 1/2 mls this year so far - not much!!! I have planted out all my aril seeds which I had had in the fridge for about 8 weeks in damp vermiculite. As I emptied the seeds and vermiculite into each pot I grab some of the seeds and remove the aril part and some of the coating but I have never done the cutting as I would need a very good magnifying glass so that i didn't cut too deep. The pots are now in foam boxes - 12 to a box and up the back yard to get all the rain and sun and cool nights that we are having at the moment. Some germination will come soon but most will be in spring. There are always pots where none come up and they are kept for a few years - well I never throw out the pots (ask my children if I throw anything out!!) So there are pots that go back many years. During summer the boxes of pots are stacked in piles in the shade where they do not get any rain until the autumn rains come when I bring them out and soak the boxes in a tub of water to waterlog them and then put back up the back yard with my fingers crossed once again.
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Beautiful Iris acutiloba Gerhard,
Fantastic pictures Hans. The opposite than your Iris sari form.
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Rafa, really beautyful coloured form!
Can you tell something about the size of the flower as it can vary very much.
Here the two which have flowered.
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¿??¿ This is a liliput Iris sari?The clone I grow is 44cm to the flower, but as you mentioned is so variable in colour and form that all could be possible.
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¿??¿ This is a liliput Iris sari?
I am still waiting for an Iris sari "ssp. manissadjianii" - this one I grow is still a smaller plant than "liliput" ::)
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Fantastic, I 've lost this species this year, I don't know why ???, so I will be happy seening your pictures.
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Beautiful Iris sari!!! 8)
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Iris acutiloba ssp. lineolata - this time with sunshine - it is one of the easier and floriforous Oncos to grow also in central europe - perhaps not so coloured as others, but striking as well.
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If our weather keeps going the way it is I will soon be able to grow these stunning Iris
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Hans,
Well it's one of my favourites of the oncos. The combination of colours and markings is fantastic.
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@Mark - referring the climatical change I hope yo will not be right to quickly ::)
@Paul - I agree completly - it is a very special Onco - and as "easy" to grow as paradoxa here. :D
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Iris barnumae could be the last species this year - at the moment there are no buds at the other species ::)- but the Oncoseason here was really ok :)
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It looks to have been a fantastic season Hans?
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It looks to have been a fantastic season Hans?
Had some problems with slugs, snails and cutworms - but this could be solved easy -and a few cases of soft rot - just yesterday I had to lift a large infected Irisclump - it just has started to bloom :-\ - some plants I expected flowers did not bloom and seedset could be better - but in general you are right - it has been a really good season. :D
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Very beautiful Iris barnumae Hans! :o
Still blooming this Iris lycotis, but with extra numbers in perianthe tubes, tepals etc...
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You keep surprising me Hans and Rafa - a new stunning species every other day !!! ;D ;D
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Thanks a lot Luc and Rafa,
Flowering season is ending here in the south, but I hope to see some pictures of the more northern situated members ;-)
Rafa the flower of your lycotis is really strange - this year I also had such a crazy flower on one plant.
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Friends, a Bulb Logging Chum from the States has just sent these photos through of his Iris camillae from Azerbaijan
The grower is Jim Kee, who says he is " very computer challenged" so it is my pleasure to post this pretty Iris for him. :)
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That is the most beautiful Iris I have seen to date.
Wet/rainy Scotland, any chance ? :-\
Susan
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Nice one isn't it! Just looked to see if Brian Mathew mentions anything about cultivation (he doesn't and that is usually a bad sign for British cultivation) but he says Iris camillae mingles freely with I. iberica in the wild and goes on to say that I. iberica is not an easy plant to maintain in cultivation. Lesley may grow it??
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Hello Jim,
Great, to see photos of your beautiful, and rarely seen plant here. :D
Referring cultivation - I am sure Jim could give more details – in my opinion this “species” (sometimes suspected to be a hybrid where I.iberica, I.acutiloba, I.paradoxa ... are involved) is easier to grow than I. iberica and more vigorous – comparable with paradoxa or acutiloba in growing – but I doubt it is hard enough to be grown outside in wet Scotland. :-\
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Hans and All.... Jim tells me that he has been growing the plant for about six years..........
" I have had this plant for about six years carefully keeping it going. Joy Bishop recently flowered this species also and it's picture made the AGS bulletin. I contacted her and sent her a picture of mine and she replied that her plant had started to suffer and lost its roots. These Iris are a temperamental lot ."
So, experienced growers in England are having some problems with this lovely Iris, and I very much doubt it was outside. :-\
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Thanks Maggie,
I am growing two small plants of this species and till now both do well - one is just a seedling -but faster growing than other species seedlings I have - hope to keep them alive and to post a photo here next year - Jim is certainly right - this species are very temperamental and you can loose them very quickly. Wish me luck. ;)
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Hans, Luc and Rafa and Jim I have enjoyed seeing your beautiful photos.
I have grown Iris camillae for a few years now. My clone came from Marcus Harvey in Tasmania. It seems to like it here and I have sent pieces back to Marcus who lost his, to the ASI plant sale (twice) and a couple of others here in Oz. I dug it last year and kept it in a paperbag during summer and have now replanted it a few weeks back - it is the best of those that I have replanted.
Can't post any photos as the photos of the flowers last year as they were a bit ragged from insect damage - possibly red spider mite which can be a problem at times of the year. Having paddocks all round does not make control easy - I use Confidor as the only spray I will use.
We have had some welcome rain and cool weather so all plants are looking a lot happier.
Narcissus bulbs (mainly Paperwhites) are coming up everywhere.
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Very beautiful plant! I am also waiting to see pictures of the other clone Jim grows "f. coerulea"
he is a VERY good Onco grower!
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That Iris camillae is gorgeous!!! Reminiscent of acutiloba but even better colour in my eyes. Stunning, and added to my want list for the future. ::)
Great pics posted by all!! 8) Thanks.
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We just got back from a visit to the Gothenburg Botanics (I hope to find the time to post some more pix in the forthcoming days), and discover this fabulous Iris camillae here on the forum, after having seen it for the very first time 'live' in the flabbergasting Gothenburg bulbhouse.
Here's the Gothenburg clone.
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Luc, wouldn't have cost as much to look at it here!! ;D
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Is that the Yorkshireman waking up in you David ??? ;D
We saw more than just this Iris mind you.... ;)
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It could well be Luc ;D
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Luc, great you show this Iris camillae - the standards are a bit strange - but I think it is a clone similar to Jims one.
Today opened the last I. kirkwoodii its only bud for this year - and I was very surprised about the colour - it is even darker as my dark one!
What a beautiful day. 8)
Here both clones - the dark one and the 'very' dark one. ;)
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Both gorgeous Hans.
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Wonderful specimen Hans !
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fantastic : it's sure the standards of the second one are darker ! Do they have the same lineage ?
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Thanks David, Luc and Bio,
Both plants I received as plants of turkish origin of different queries - unfortunally I have no further information - but I think Brian Mathew or Jim Archibald mentioned an old collection in turkey of dark plants of this species.
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Here is Iris stolonifera 'Morning Coffee' flowering for the first time.
Susan
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Truly wonderful Susan ! :o
How high is it ??
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beautiful intense colours!
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Luc, it is about 40cm tall at flowering, just hope there isn't any strong winds for a while.
I have a few other different ones with buds on, can't wait to see them open.
Susan
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That is really lovely Susan, may you not be troubled by the wind! ;D
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Iris sari from Tuz Gölü in Turkey flowering now with me.
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Hi
I wonder if anyone could tell me if my Iris paradoxa ssp. paradoxa might be another ssp. It seems that it is quite darker than most plants I have seen. The flower at the photo is exposed to direct sunlight so you can see the deep purple color. Otherwise it looks almost black.
Any suggestions ?
Geir
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Beautiful plant :o , could it be forma 'atrata'?
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Ruweiss - beautiful sari form you grow :D
Geir, I think there are no other ssp. accepted for Iris paradoxa - just different "formas" - Zhirair showed a very beatiful dark form and also the "Sevan" form should be very dark - posibly they all belong to the described form "atrata" which mentioned Rafa? ::)
While we had heavy rainfall the last three days a nice coloured I. paradoxa f. choschab opened - I like it because of a light hint of yellow at the base of the standards.
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Hans, very beautiful form in the opposite than Geir's post.
Also S. Banquetow grows a beautiful form with the standars completely cream color.
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Thanks Rafa,
I remember to have seen photos of russian plants with yellow stardards - but I have never seen them in cultivation - I think the above shown form came from the famous nursery of Bernd Wetzel in Wuppertal/ Germany and should be of turkish origin.
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I posted the following on the Iris thread before I saw the Onco thread. Photographed by a friend whilst I was in Iran. Will post Iranian oncos later - some were very small as there was a drought that restricted the numbers we saw.
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Hello Arthur,
Thanks for showing this iranian choschab form.
Are the choschabs in Iran generally as heavy veined?
I am looking forward to see some more of your photos. :D
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Hans
Not from Iran - possibly Turkey near Van.
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Thanks Arthur - I have never been there and so I cannot compare - but till now none of the plants or pictures of plants of the Van-Area I have seen had so heavy (and dark)veined flowers - more common in cultivation seem to be forms as I posted above or in reply 63 - so I am very glad you show it!
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A few weks ago I had a guest from germany who was in Nagorni Kharabakh and photographed iris acutiloba. And we together also went to iris paradoxa place to see it in bloom. Enjoy the photos.
Geir, your dark iris paradoxa is very similar to our form.
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And some pictures of iris elegantissima
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And some pictures of iris elegantissima
That 's a beautiful spectacle, Zhirair.
I love this combination of the colours. Great!
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Luit,
They are, indeed, very special. I have been looking for iris elegantissiama to see in the wild for several years, but only this year I succeeded to see it. I was just astonished by its magical bauaty! One shoud see it in a real. I can't find any words to describe its beauty.
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Zhirair - thanks so much for sharing this fantastic photos -It is just great to see this treasures growing in the wild - To find this type of Iris in its own special landscape has to be really breathtaking. Thanks again. :D
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Wonderful Zhirair !
They are even more stunning in nature aren't they ?? :o
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Zhirair
You are very lucky to have such treasures on your doorstep.
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Congratulations Zhirair, very impresive :o
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Zhirair and all the others,
did overlook this "Oncos in Flower" since a while.
Wonderful iris...
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Last paradoxa
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If this was the last one, it was worth the wait Rafa ! :o
Beautiful colours !!
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Amazing, Rafa!!
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Rafa, a beautiful coloured form - here the last(?) dark paradoxa is in flower at the moment.
The heavy rain of last month (about 200l/m2 - more than in scotland?) is not good for this delicate plants - softrot is around the corner... ::)
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What a beautiful Iris Rafa, now, if I only had your climate........... :(
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STUNNING pictures!! That dark form of paradoxa is breathtaking, and the acutiloba and elegantissima!! :o I so want to grow them! ::)
Thanks for taking the time to post the pics everyone. A real joy at this time of year (early winter here).
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Sorry no flowers yet but
I was just checking my seed pots today and noticed that Iris basaltica from 2006 seed from Ian Mitchell in Melbourne had its first new seedling. I rang Ian in excitement and he told me that he believes it is possibly basaltica. He received seeds many years ago ( I believe possibly in the 60s) from an expert in Israel at the time.(he could not remember his name) The atropurpurea turned out to be gatesii and Iris meda was a blue but he felt that all the seeds he received were not pure species.
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Rafa
Truly beautiful. How do you grow - in a pot or outside in your garden. Why do you think it is so late in flowering?
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Now then, here is a real treat for you Iris lovers.....Iris afghanica, and what a cracker!
[attach=1]
Not that I can claim any credit forthis fine potfull.... I merely facilitate the posting of a picture sent from Tasmania to Ootto, to Lesley and to me, here in Aberdeen.... pity the pot of Iris couldn't make the same journey!!
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Lovely pot of Iris and even room to grow even bigger nice :)
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:o :o :o - Maggy, I first thought this pic is a joke of somebody who has played with photoshop ::) - but it looks real -never have seen something like this, just stunning (lucky to sit on a chair when I saw this photo ;))
Thanks for sharing.
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Maggi
Is the grower shy?
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Just fabulous!!! :o :o :o
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Wonderful, isn't it? I will leave it to Lesley or Otto to tell you who grew the plant.... I am not entirely sure myself.... as I say, I am just the bringer of good tidings!
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The grower of this gorgeous iris is Marcus Harvey, bulb grower/nurseryman, in Tasmania. He sent the pic asking Otto to put it on the Forum. Otto sent it to me with the same request and I sent it on to Maggi, whose computer skills with anything other than the basics, are much greater than mine or Otto's.
What is even better is that Marcus' good friend Susan Jarrick is painting it. Susan is a superb botanical artist. Hopefully there will come an opportunity to show her painting later.
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oh yes please!!! watercolors?
This is a technique challenge :-\ ...
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Just beautiful. Well done Marcus.
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I sure hope that it doesn't bloom out. What a treasure - will keep my fingers crossed that it increases and that there might be some later to buy. The leaves are showing what some of mine do - the browning of the tips of the leaves - I have put it down to the combination of cold and wet. The arils that are in nearly pure gravel for about 4-6" under the rhizomes are faring better than some sites that stay on the damp side.
Flowering stalks are appearing here.
A friend in Melbourne shared a photo this week of his potted Iris haynei that I sent to him last year. Much earlier than my bloom season opening
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Thank you Maggi ,our computer wizzard, for putting Marcus Harvey,s mouthwatering pot of Iris afghanica onthe Forum , too much of a good thing, as it exhausted itself flowering to death , so this is the end of I. afghanica in Australia.
Otto.
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Otto, you give me too much credit...... I can only manage the basics of this computer, as Fred Admin will attest! :-[
What a terrible shame that this wonderful pot of Iris has flowered itself to death. :'( Sad that some of the most beautiful plants will do that..... sad, and very frustrating. thank goodness we have at least the photo to admire, and the plant will be immortalised in the painting. :)
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Oh blow. Will have to try seed if it is ever available.
A few photos of my aril beds to follow.
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Here is a painting of Iris sari, by Susan Jarrick. It will be from Marcus' plant I imagine.
Susan is a quiet and gentle lady who is perhaps a little unsure of her own great skill with a paint brush. I was privileged to see a portfolio of her work when I stayed with Marcus last year. Otto has a stunning painting of another onco.
This I. sari is of a darker than usual form.
[attachthumb=1]
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Here I am among all these glorious things, posting pics (with permission) but others have grown them.
This is another from Marcus Harvey in Tasmania who apparently had it from our own Arillady, Pat Toolan who had it from Marcus in the first place (I think I have that right).
[attachthumb=1]
It is Iris samariae or perhaps a hybrid of it and in flower right now, so early that Marcus has had to bring it undercover to protect from the winter weather.
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Stunning!! It reminds me of my favourite pic of Iris iberica ssp elegantissima (obviously not the same colour, but similar form etc), which is my main Iris lust (which I got from Marcus and it rotted! :o :'( :'( :'(). I must get back into the aril types. ::)
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Sad the Iris afghanica does not exist any more - the number of clones left in cultivation is not very high :-\.
Lesley - the Onco you have posted is a stunner - but it does not look like Iris samariae (which now is also Iris lortetii) - please compare http://pa.photoshelter.com/gallery-img-show?G_ID=G0000MAenVY3MPV8&V_ID=&P_ID=&start=7&pagtotal=15 (http://pa.photoshelter.com/gallery-img-show?G_ID=G0000MAenVY3MPV8&V_ID=&P_ID=&start=7&pagtotal=15)- I looks nearer Iris hermona or a hybrid of it. I hope there will come more comments about it from other members of this forum. ;)
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Nice plantation Pat. ;D I hope to see it when flowering 8) :o
(Marcus) Sorry to hear about the Iris afghanica dying after flowering. :'(
Lesley to an untried eye the iris have similarities with Iris iberica ssp elegantissima as Paul said. (I do not think his eyes are untraied but mine). ::)
Hope to see more of these soon 8)
Kind regards
Joakim
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Joakim,
In the case of these sorts of irises my eyes are definitely untrained!! Mien was a superficial observation, nothing more. Only because I adore elegantissima and I immediately thought of it when I saw the pic. Either way, I'd grow it if I had the chance!! ;D
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Looks like I might have goofed in labelling what I sent to Marcus - it looks like one of the Iris hermona hybrids that I grow.
Nothing like samaraie and lortetii as Hans link showed. Stunning photos of stunning plants. Thanks Hans for the link.
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OK, I'll let Marcus know.
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Regardless of the name I would not kick that Iris out of the bed >:).
kind regards
Joakim
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I have not seen an aril hybrid that I WOULD throw out - all are amazing when the light is coming through them showing up their fine dotting and veining.
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The first of the arils to flower seem to be taking their time to open
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Pat,
Yeah, the waiting can be excruciating, but it somehow makes the results even more exciting at times. ;D
All that promise in those buds. Looking forward to seeing the pics when the flowers have opened.
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Pat, will you be at the Vic Group of AGS talks on Sept 13th? If not, may I refer to you in absentia?
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Lesley you are welcome to refer to me in absentia ( so long as you keep it polite) as I will not be in Vic for the meeting - am heading in that direction in November to the Heritage Roses in Australia conference where I am one of the workshop presenters. A few of us are travelling together and hope to visit a few nurseries on the way.
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Will certianly keep it polite - and complimentary, as a grower of aril irises. :)
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Pat,
And there'll be others of us there as well, just to make sure she keeps it all nice. ;D We'll be watching you Lesley!! (Mwaa Haa Haa!!) :P
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A few photos of the first blooms on a clone of Iris haynei
[attach= 1]
[attach= 2]
[attach= 3]
[attach= 4]
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Congratulations Pat they look very happy! :o
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Pat,
So rich and delicious. They almost look edible!! Encore, encore!! 8)
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Pat, come and do my talk for me please. :)
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:o - Wow Pat! - stunning Plants! Hope to see some more of your beauties. :)
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Pat,
And there'll be others of us there as well, just to make sure she keeps it all nice. ;D We'll be watching you Lesley!! (Mwaa Haa Haa!!) :P
Paul, for your post I think you needed one of these gifs......
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
or even this one
[attach=4]
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Maggi,
Yes, but I don't know how to insert those in my postings.... like the hurling ones you gave me the other day. My attempt at an evil laugh in print obviously worked though, because you knew what I was talking about. I'm assuming you're getting those from somewhere else and inserting them directly as attachthumb or something like that?
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Another aril starting to bloom.
I have a niggly feeling that the last photos I posted while labelled Iris haynei were showing more Iris atropurpurea features than Iris haynei.
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Just stunning Pat.
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Just stunning Pat.
Ashley
You took my words away. How many more are there to take our breath away.
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Amazing!
Pat, I think that the Iris in the pictures that you have posted is Iris haynei. It is darker than the common Iris haynei but it is most certainly not Iris atropurpurea which has reddish-brown shade and not purple shade.
Best wishes,
Miriam
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Pat,
Oh that mariae hybrid..... I am positively drooling. That speckling, that colour combination.... to die for!!!!!! :o
Miriam,
Impressive picture of a gloriously flowering clump. Beautiful.
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These Iris are so elegantly glamorous..... exquisite, every one ....reeking of star quality.... especially the black ones.... very Hollywood 8)
Paul, right click on the little funny icons and save them to your pc... then as you rightly surmise, include them with the attachthum trick....have fun!
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Maggi,
Thanks for the info. But doesn't that mean there are just more and more copies of the same thing stored every time it is used? Now I have to remember where the other hurl icons you gave me are. ::) I have to do EVERYTHING!! :o :P
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Pat, can we have a pic of your hybrid side-on please?
Miriam, how wonderful it must be in Israel just to walk down a road and see such a plant flowering at the edge there. Even if it doesn't happen ALL the time, such a sight must make your day?
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Paul, right click on the little funny icons and save them to your pc... then as you rightly surmise, include them with the attachthum trick....have fun!
When I do that I get a little box saying "The system cannot find the file specified." as it does with all Forum pics.
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Paul, right click on the little funny icons and save them to your pc... then as you rightly surmise, include them with the attachthum trick....have fun!
When I do that I get a little box saying "The system cannot find the file specified." as it does with all Forum pics.
OOP! So sorry, folks, I am wrong here.... the method I suggest is how I grab the smileys from other places! :-[
To save them from here, as with photos, is to click to "copy" then paste into document or your photo management system and get access to be able to save them that way.
Sorry for mistake!
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Miriam,
I just had a niggling feeling with the Iris haynei photos because of the yellow throat but they are much taller than my Iris atropurpureas are usually. Thanks for confirming that it is Iris haynei - the other clone I grow looks like Iris haynei from the books. One day I will get to Israel to see them in the flesh. Glad to have you on the forum to tell me if my arils are correctly labelled. I get so much more from actually seeing a named plant than trying to recognise it from the book descriptions. I think little bits of info filler into the back reaches of your brain and these are the bits that help you to recognise a plant.
Lesley I should be able to get a photo side on today - yesterday it was still opening
And replying to an earlier post Lesley - your talk will teach so much on a much wider range of plants than I can grow here - so no to doing your talk. Must take out my slide camera today to take some photos too.
From the reactions I am reading from my postings I can see some people falling too like I did when I first saw an aril flowering. That feeling of utter amazement that Mother Nature can create something so intricately dotted and veined. Especially with the sun behind them.
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Paul, right click on the little funny icons and save them to your pc... then as you rightly surmise, include them with the attachthum trick....have fun!
When I do that I get a little box saying "The system cannot find the file specified." as it does with all Forum pics.
Lesley,
It's a setting on your computer then, because I can right click and save any picture here on the forums without a problem if I want to (I saved the smileys without a hassle). You probably have a security setting on your web browser that needs changing.
Pat,
I'm looking forward to the side on pic as well. 8)
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Miriam,
I just had a niggling feeling with the Iris haynei photos because of the yellow throat but they are much taller than my Iris atropurpureas are usually. Thanks for confirming that it is Iris haynei - the other clone I grow looks like Iris haynei from the books. One day I will get to Israel to see them in the flesh. Glad to have you on the forum to tell me if my arils are correctly labelled. I get so much more from actually seeing a named plant than trying to recognise it from the book descriptions. I think little bits of info filler into the back reaches of your brain and these are the bits that help you to recognise a plant.
Pat,
I agree with you, this is probably an hybrid, [I tend to think that there is more of I atrofusca in yours]
I haynei doesn't have this yellow throat, and is more robust and quite short, during the years many hybrids of onco. were introduced for garden use in Israel, in some it is easy to trace parents characters while others lost these characters completely.
Attached pics of the true species, I haynei and I atrofusca.
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and I. atropurpurea
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Oron,
Wow!! Glorious pics.
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Miriam and Oron,
fantastic to see this glorious plants in their natural enviroment! It is always very interesting to learn how to distinguish the species - I think this is not always easy as for example in I. haynei and I. atrofusca in the different populations between Mount Gilboa and Goral Hills.
Thanks
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Hi Oron,
Glad to see another member from Israel here.
Iris haynei has yellow beard in some forms but I agree with you that it is hard to determine if Pat' Iris is a hybrid or not.
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My original seeds of most of my arils came from David Shahak in Tirat Tsvi Israel. He used Iris atropurpurea over his other species and thus creating pseudo species - but some seeds came as eg: Iris haynei or Iris haynei hybrid so I am not surprised that the Iris haynei might show atropurpurea or atrofusca in them.
What I would love is drawings with an arrow pointing to the distinquishing feature/s between each species.
I certainly appreciate the suggestions from Mirian and Oron in Israel about my irises that I grow.
I have a son hovering wanting to use the laptop so I will reply with photos of the other aril in profile in the morning when both are at school.
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This morning I took some photos to illustrate the difference in growth between very free draining gravel and other beds that are suffering this year
And then showing the depth of the gravel where the plants are doing well
side view of what may be a hermona hybrid (top of bloom yesteray) - I was looking at the wrong planting plan when I wrote maybe be mariae hybrid
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Pat,
I'm sending you photos of the true to type I. hermona in its habitat so you can comper with yours.
oron
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It is always very interesting to learn how to distinguish the species - I think this is not always easy as for example in I. haynei and I. atrofusca in the different populations between Mount Gilboa and Goral Hills.
Thanks
Hans,
In some cases it is almost impossible to distinguish between two species and even between two flowers of the same species, specially if they grow as cultivated plants.
It seems there are no two identical flowers in the same species, there is variation in size, form and color scheme .
The status of some species is not very clear to us and there are still discussions if they are subspecies or species.
I think in some cases only a genetic exam will tell us the true...
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Thanks Oron - you point out the poblem - more I know /and grow Oncos less sure I am about how to separate species or subspecies - often it is only possible to know which plant you are growing if you know exactly where the plants origin is - just have a look at these I. kirkwoodii ssp. calcarea - they does not seem to be to far away from Iris hermona... ::)
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Hans,
For me they look the same ???
I think that in order to really classify the oncos. an enormous research should be done, by saying it i mean that all known species in the east Mediterranean should be mapped genetically and by distribution, but this is a work that we Israelis can't do at the moment since we can cross the border to Syria and Lebanon only once in our life's... well at least for the moment..
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you know in some cases there is a good way to distinguish two species as in the case of Cyclamen africanum and C. hederifolium...
If it survived the frost it is C. hederifolium if it didn't... it was C. africanum :-\
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There is a difference in the base of the midribs, hermona seems to have a yellowish base , kirkwoodii ssp. calcareas midrib is darker without yellow - but if this is enough to separate them... ::)
I have made the mistake to plant one Cyclamen africanum in a part of the garden I grow many C. hederifolium - as always: the label is lost - now i am asking me every autumn which was the C. africanum here in my frosfree garden... ::)
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It is frustrating, isn't it,
We humanbeings need to classify every thing and put it in order just to understand it... so that we can go to sleep with a quite mind but nature is smarter...
I have a few species in my collection which no one can give the answer on what species they are...
so i just call them in the meantime Gagea whoknows, bellevalia maybe...etc....
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just have a look at these I. kirkwoodii ssp. calcarea - they does not seem to be to far away from Iris hermona... ::)
Hans,
This is the new species Iris westii discovered only two years ago on Mt. Hermon at 2020m, there is only one colony on the Israeli side, look again how close it is in appearance to I kirkwoodii
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Oron, would you care to post another photo of I. westii,please, this one is very small... I would suggest a size of around 700 x 600 pixels ??!!
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Maggi I have attached another pic to the same message
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Maggi I have attached another pic to the same message
Thank you, Oron. You will find that around 700x 600 is about as big as is easily viewable by many readers.... lots use 640 x480 as a standard size...i think it may be that some editing programmes have an easy way to quickly convert pix to regular sizes.... ???... I don't know, I have to do mine one by one!!
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Fabulous flower !!!! :o :o :o
Thanks for posting Oron !
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What a treasure! :o - Oron many thanks for this picture - I have seen only very,very few pictures of this specie! Yes you are right - also this is one very similar to Iris kirkwoodii - I think the proportions are something different and the plant is less high ( I. kirkwoodii ssp. calcarea easily about 70 cm) - but for sure this can depend on many influences.
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Oron and Hans,
Breathtaking photos!!! The delicacy of the markings in those flowers is almost unbelievable.... I can feel another addiction coming on. :o
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I have to say just BRAVO!! I missed all these comments and marvellous pictures from all
(Hans capullo! no me has avisado! >:( ;D)
This is why I am absolutely disagree with hybrids, we can't play with genetic codes until we don't know how many valid species are there and more important, until their conservation status will be better. Like in Narcissus genus I think it is neccesary a taxonomic revision based in molecular studies.
Miriam show us a very good picture: Protected species? where? you can see the real protection of Iris atropurpurea mixed with chaotic development (like in Spain) all those jewels from the botanic evolution mixed with illegal builds...
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Does anyone have or grow or even remember what it looks like now..... Iris aurantiaca (or might be I. auranitica).
Has anyone a picture? This iris has been in my dreams for 45 years since I saw a slide belonging to the Australian Dr Gordon Loveridge.
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Absolutely fabulous iris pics!
cheers
fermi
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Does anyone have or grow or even remember what it looks like now..... Iris aurantiaca (or might be I. auranitica).
Has anyone a picture? This iris has been in my dreams for 45 years since I saw a slide belonging to the Australian Dr Gordon Loveridge.
Looks like Rafa's got it, but where's the flower?
http://www.badbear.com/signa/signa.pl?Iris-auranitica
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http://www.botanic.co.il/english/research/iris_lebanon.htm
Here you can find many pictures from Thomas Fietz.
Yes I grow this species and I hope soon to distribute seeds through all of you :)
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Hey Rafa,
you asked me about I grant-duffii
here are photos in its habitat
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Rafa thanks for posting Thomas's photos of Iris aurantica.
I will definitely be trying to get a couple of clones of different pure species and breeding them true. I started with my mixed lot from Shahak and while they are not pure species they are a delight to me when they flower.
Here is the the most recent aril hybrid to flower fully - in the background is a tall hybrid just coming out - it was difficult to photograph today with strong winds.
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Miriam show us a very good picture: Protected species? where? you can see the real protection of Iris atropurpurea mixed with chaotic development (like in Spain) all those jewels from the botanic evolution mixed with illegal builds...
Rafa,
This picture was taken in a small village called Hemdat near the Jordan valley and not in a reserve, so all the buildings in the background are legal.
You are right, the development is a serious threat to the wild plants and sometimes even the law (protected plants by the law) does not stop them.
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Pat,
Your hermona hybrid no doubt contains I. bismarckiana it is
probably I hermona X bismarckiana
Hi Miriam...
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Pat,
I've said it before, and I'll probably say it again... that hybrid is amazing. Love the markings.
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what a last 48h plenty of terrific pictures!! Thank you very much to all for sharing these beauties.
Fantastic pictures of Iris grant-duffi, thank you Oron!.
Miriam, thank you for clarify this, in Spain it could be stopped if there are endemic animal species like Lynx pardinus, Aquila adalberti and even like this they bribe everybody to build what they want. But botany? maybe Cypripedium calceolus could stop something, and even this specie is not enough to stop a Snowboard installation projects.
This horrendous image is current illegal buildings 10m away from the Pinus sylvestris forest, where I collect many of the seeds I usually offer in this forum or I donate to SRGC. If you start to walk from this point, you can continue 40 km or more without encountering any other village. As you can see they also are illegal in the aesthetic sense as they are built without the architectural rules of the village.
Pat, it is obvious these hybrids are absolutely and extremely beautiful, but to me it is more important to maintain the natural plants, and this is why I only grow species for conservation purposes, sharing seeds through all the friends.
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This horrendous image is actual illegal buildings 10m far from the Pinus sylvestris forrest, where I collect many of the seeds I usually offer in this forum or I donate to SRGC. If you start to walk in this point, you can continue 40 km or more without any other village. As you can seed they also are illegal in the aesthetic sense as they have build without the architectural rules of the village.
Rafa,
It seems nothing is able to stop profit seeking - a sad story!
It seems there aren't such excesses here in Germany - nevertheless we are very good in covering our country with concrete in a more secrete manner.
Gerd
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Yes it is Gerd, I think you know very well our porblems visiting last year your dear "Pinar del Hierro" in Chiclana, Cádiz. This sight of Narcissus viridiflorus, mixed with all that trash is very representative of how powerful is the ignorance in our country (and the money if you offer it to the correct person).
I forgot to tell that in my picture this evil castle of illegality, is 500m away from an Aquila adalbertii nest, and there are only 240 couples on Earth.
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:'( :'( :'(
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http://www.botanic.co.il/english/research/iris_lebanon.htm
Yes I grow this species and I hope soon to distribute seeds through all of you :)
Oh Rafa, will you marry me please? ;D
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I am always amazed at the many TV programmes that come our way, of Brits who go to foreign countries, such as Spain, Greece, Bulgaria and elsewhere and build houses/apartments, entirely for profit as if they had a right to invade someone else's country for their own benefit. They take over tracts of land by lakeside, the sea, in the mountains - anywhere there's a great view, and I doubt if any thought is given to who else suffers or what effects there are on flora and fauna.
As a human sub-species, I LOATHE property developers. We have them here too and that some have gone broke in recent months due to the downturn in the American economy as much as anything, gives me quite a lot of pleasure.
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I was about to rate this a 5 star topic when I noticed that facility is no longer available!When did that happen?
Anyway, this is definitely a 5 star rating!
cheers
fermi
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Should be all of 10 stars Fermi.
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Folks, it seems that when some sections were started , the rating system wasn't activated.... willcheck with Fred tonight.
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http://www.botanic.co.il/english/research/iris_lebanon.htm
Yes I grow this species and I hope soon to distribute seeds through all of you :)
Oh Rafa, will you marry me please? ;D
I am afraid I am not a good bargain!! I'm an artist and therefore very poor :'( ;D
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But rich in seeds Rafa. ;)
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Miriam and Oron,
Are there any publications available in Israel that have good drawings or illustrations of the different oncocyclus and regelia species? Available for purchase?
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Pat,
I have never seen any publications with drawings or illustrations of the different oncocyclus and regelia species in Israel.
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I do have photocopies of some illustrations from Flora of The Land of Israel Iconography by Naomi Feinbrun and Michael Zohary Hebrew university Drawn by Ruth Koppel 1949 - Iris atropurpurea, Iris mariae, Iris nazarena are covered.
Also Flora of Syria, Palestine, and Sinai From the Taurus to Ras Muhammad, and from the Mediterranean Sea to the Syrian Desert. by Rev. George E. Post, MA,MD,DDS. Syrian Protestant College, Beirut, Syria (I did not record the date of publication) It is an older looking book. pages 766 -770 cover Iris - the one only has text re Iris histrio, Iris palaestina, I. fumosa, I. cretensis, I pseudoacorus, I ochroleuca, I sari, I heylandiana, I lorteti, I. helanae, I haynei ("probably a variety of this or of the last"), I pallida, I germanica, I florentina, I tuberosa (last three are believed to be "escapes from cultivation")
I also have a photocopy of the some pages from Flora Palaestina Part Four - Plates Alismataceaw to Orchidaceae by Naomi Feinbrun-Dothan drawings by Ruth Koppel, Esther Huber, Levi Benyamini Jerusalem 1986 The Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities - Iris pseudocorus L., Iris grant-duffii Baker, Iris hermona Dinsmore, Iris bismarckiana Regel (same drawing as I nararena in the first publication), Iris lortetii W. Barbey, Iris haynei Baker, Iris atrofusca Baker, Iris nigricans Dinsmore, Iris petrana Dinsmore, Iris atropurpurea Baker, Iris mariae W. Barbey, Iris histrio Reichenb. fil., Iris vartanii Foster, Iris palaestina(Baker) Boiss., Iris edomensis Sealy, Iris regis-uzziae Feinbr.
These are pretty good illustration but of the Flora Palaestina I do not have the text at all - must revisit the Adelaide Botanic Gardens Library to see if the text is there.
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Pat,
There isn't much more material available about the Iris in Israel. There are some works, and articles published, mainly about pollination and distribution of the species, I think The descriptions in Flora Palestina are the ones we base on but this is quite an old book and off course molecular exams weren't done at that time.
As I said in some cases it is hard to tell apart two close species.
It is possible to divide Oncos. in Israel to two groups with very similar characteristics and probably very close related genetically
The first group is I. bismarckiana, I. hermona, I. lortetii and the lately discovered I. westii
The second group is I. atropurpurea, I. atrofusca, I. petrana, [I hieruchamensis] .
The relation between species in each group is not clear yet, some might be only subsp..
in some cases they grow in short distances one from the other and there are some transition forms like in the case of I hermona and I bismarckiana.
It seems that I haynei and I mariae are true species.
Than we have I . pseudocorus [very rare in the wild]
I mesopotamica on Mt. Hermon [probably the only wild population in Israel]
I grant-duffii
I vartanii
I histrio
I palaestina
I regis-uzziae
I edomensis grows in the area of Petra of in Jordan
I cretensis is I unguicularis subsp. cretensis [ not in Israel]
Iris samaria is probably I loretii subsp. samaria or var. samaria
Iris albicans, Iris germanica, I mesopotamica where probably introduced by the Muslims that used to plant then in their cemeteries.
Iris tuberosa [ Hermodactylus tuberosa growes much farther to the north, not in Israel]
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Thank you for this very interesting information Oron.
Well It seems I'll have to make an illustration guide of Israelian Iris. I make the plates and you put in the information? ;D
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Thank You Oron for letting us know that there is little more information on the oncos in Israel.
Have you seen the last bulletin of the British Iris Society Species Group which covers the Oncocyclus irises - articles from past BIS Yearbooks and new articles. I have asked Tim Loe if more copies can be printed as it was a great reference work. Tim will look into it. Members of ASI would certainly be willing to buy a copy I am sure.
Looks like you have another project Rafa. ;D
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Rafa,
Certainly my job will be the easy part....have you seen closeup of I bismarckiana... ;)
Now that i think it is odd that no one have dedicated a book for Oncos of the Mediterranean and Asia..so far
By the way your seeds are on the way....
Oron
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Pat, I am not a member of the Iris species society and so I haven't seen this article, is it also available on the net?
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Pat,
I have the following book:'Wild Flowers of the Holy Land', by Uzi Paz ,1979 by Massada,printed in Israel .It contains beautyful colour photos of 4 oncos :I.hermona Dinsm. ,I. helenae Barb. [=I. mariae Barb.] ,I. lorteti , and I. atropurpura Bak.
also a beautyful clump of I. palaestina Boiss.
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Oron - Pat is right, the BIS Bulletin ( Oncocyclus Special) is really excellent - it includes many superb articles of many specialists as Brian Mathew, Jim Archibald, Tim Loe, Peter Werckmeister, Harald Mathes...
A very good article with spectacular photos of lebanese and sirian species in its enviroment has written Thomas Fietz - but as I know this bulletin is not online and actually out of stock.
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Hans,
Maybe if you voiced your desire for the bulletin to be reprinted to Tim Loe it would lend your voice to mine - It is really worthy of being available wider.
Otto your book sounds fascinating - I will try an online search.
I have The Bulbous Plants of Turkey by Brian Mathew and Tuhan Baytop too which includes many of the oncos plus many Iris species.
I also have a couple of smaller books - Flowers of the Mediterranean by Oleg Polunin and Anthony Huxley plus a couple of others further afield.
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Have you an email adress for Tim Loe Pat. The one I've used before doesn't bring any reply. Tried several times over a few months.
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Lesley,
loe@loebooks.co.uk
is the address that I have.
I have just sent off an email to Tim
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Thanks, I'll do the same. I had more success with juno and onco seeds from Tim than from anyone else., in the first 4 years of this century.