Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: P. Kohn on September 14, 2015, 05:29:42 PM
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We regard ourselves as fairly successful at growing perennials from seed but one genus with which we are spectacularly unsuccessful is Aconitum. Does anyone have any experience with this genus and helpful advice please ?
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Hi there, I don't have masses of experience with Aconitum. However, like other Ranunculaceae, Aconitum seed has limited viability and so needs to be sown as soon as possible after collection. Seed from most of the major seed companies is likely to give poor results - get it from a friend or forum member.
Best
Tristan
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We regard ourselves as fairly successful at growing perennials from seed but one genus with which we are spectacularly unsuccessful is Aconitum. Does anyone have any experience with this genus and helpful advice please ?
As Tristan said, Aconitum seeds have short viability and best if sown fresh, but if they are kept slightly moist after collecting (at warm and after late fall, cold) they can be sown any time till spring. It is the same method used for many North American spring flowering woodland species (Sanguinaria, Erythronium, Podophyllum, Hepatica) in order to extend the seeds availability.
Gabriela
Ontario, Canada, zone 5
http://botanicallyinclined.org (http://botanicallyinclined.org)
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Agreed, if you get fresh or moist packed seeds they are dead easy with nearly 100% germination. Basically just sow them in your regular mix, and throw them outside in a cold frame. Garden's North usually offer fresh, moist packed seeds later in the season: http://www.gardensnorth.com/ (http://www.gardensnorth.com/)
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I have sown dry Aconitum seeds many times, and they germinate in masses after two winters (two cold periods). I keep Aconitum pots outside under the snow where it gets colder than in the fridge. The same treatment works also with Actaea.
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Like many Ranunculaceae, Aconitum are fall germinators in my experience and will then put up the cotyledons in the spring. After the root forms these need to go dormant, but too much cold will often freeze these and kill them if in unprotected pots. Too much warmth won't allow dormancy requirements to be met so they rot during the next season, and too much dryness will also kill them (as would wet!). I sow them direct and germination is nearly 100%. Sadly its too hot and humid in the summer here to grow many species, but a few Korean ones do really well.
Aaron
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Thanks everyone. We'll try sowing our own seed as soon as ripe but this doesn't help with aquiring new species. We'll just hope that some older seeds will cooperate after a couple of winters
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Aconitum species: alboviolaceum, orientale, cymbulatum and rubicundum - germination in the second year.
The seeds were received in mid January so not that 'old', and I cannot say if the GA3 really made a difference. In any case there are noticeable differences between species, and good to take note. There is also Aconitum firmum with very low germination like rubicundum.
[attachimg=1]
Anyone else has data on other species, regarding germination from dry kept seeds?
I am posting here one more image with the Aconitum alboviolaceum grown seedlings, I couldn't keep them all but at least I was able to share some.
[attachimg=2]
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So many seedling there Gabriela. ;)
The Trillium grandiflorum I got from you started germinating. Only two now.Hope to get more.
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So many seedling there Gabriela. ;)
The Trillium grandiflorum I got from you started germinating. Only two now.Hope to get more.
Yes Kris, unfortunately many will be sacrificed because I have an overcrowding problem as it is with the pots at this time.
The Trilliums should all germinate in due time, don't want to post pictures here.
I hope others will share their experience with other Aconitum species; it would be useful to know the ones for which the germination is not affected by dry storing the seeds for a few months. This means from fall - Jan./Feb., precisely the time for receiving seeds from seeds exchanges.
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oh yes, the GA3 has made a difference!
3 years that I order and sows Aconitum hemsleyanum and no seedling.
Aconitum alboviolaceum: a single seedling (same stage as yours) the 2nd spring on a very large number of seeds.
Aconitum arctuatum: nothing after the 2nd spring
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oh yes, the GA3 has made a difference!
3 years that I order and sows Aconitum hemsleyanum and no seedling.
Aconitum alboviolaceum: a single seedling (same stage as yours) the 2nd spring on a very large number of seeds.
Aconitum arctuatum: nothing after the 2nd sping
Thank you Véronique.
I should probably open a separate thread for Aconitum, otherwise it will get lost here.
Alonsoa seedlings are interesting; I'm not familiar with it but there are other species with secretory glands that are not carnivorous.
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I took pictures of all Aconitum that I have sown since 2017 yesterday. I did not use GA3 and germination was good, better than in some years before.
Two of them were sown at 03.01.2018.
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I still have some progress to make with Aconitum!
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I took pictures of all Aconitum that I have sown since 2017 yesterday. I did not use GA3 and germination was good, better than in some years before.
Two of them were sown at 03.01.2018.
Thank you Stefan - I am taking notes :)
It is very interesting to see and puzzling. I could only explain it by the different origin of the mother plants.
In what conditions you kept the 2017 and 2018 sowings please?
I would give you all my Aconitum seedlings for your A. anthora.
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I did nothing special with them, sowed them in pots and put them out in my sand bed. Yesterday I noticed another pot from 01.2017 without any germination.
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Gabriella,
you talk about germination in the second year: you mean that you dipped the seeds in the GA3 in 2017, but they did not germinate until 2018?
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As Gabriela already mentioned, aconitum seeds are recalcitrant to varying degrees. (They may or may not tolerate dry storage.)
Therefore, it is very important to know how seeds were stored and for how long before planting.
Please, please, could you give us that information, Stefan?
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Gabriella,
you talk about germination in the second year: you mean that you dipped the seeds in the GA3 in 2017, but they did not germinate until 2018?
Yes Véronique, the seeds were coll. in 2016, I received them in mid Jan. 2017, treated with GA3, kept at warm for a while (I thought they may germinate) and the cold and then outdoors the whole time.
GA3 treatment in some Aconitum species has been shown to promote embryo growth, even if it will not induce germination.
Aconitums have underdeveloped embryos and germination will occur only after they reach a certain size.
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As Gabriela already mentioned, aconitum seeds are recalcitrant to varying degrees. (They may or may not tolerate dry storage.)
Therefore, it is very important to know how seeds were stored and for how long before planting.
Please, please, could you give us that information, Stefan?
Rick, I have sown them at the same day, when I have got them. The first two I have got from the SRGC seed exchange 2017 and their storage seemed to be fine.
The other three are from two Czech sources. I have no information about their storage but it must be good. All seed germinated very well.
But like you I have also had seed without any germination from 2009 - 16 from three different seed exchanges:
Aconitum alboviolaceum
Aconitum anthora
Aconitum jaluense
Aconitum lamarckii
Aconitum lasiostomum
Aconitum tauricum
Aconitum variegatum
And there are still some others that didn't germinate and I am still waiting.
Aconitum anthora:
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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do fresh seeds, not stored, germinate better?
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This is one of the genera where our success from seed is poor. Does anyone have any advice on how to get higher germination rates please /
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I'm no help to you, Peter - my Aconitum lycoctonum seeds itself around the garden so well the germination rate must be about 150 % !!
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The seed needs to be sown fresh. When do you sow it?
If the seed is old, I would try GA3, it might be helpful for aconitum.
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Yes, we do sow fresh but still have poor germination. I am envious of your lycoctonum, Maggi. As I recently discussed with Ian Scott, what self-sows is very specific to each garden - certainly very different between Kerrachar and Sheffield or Fife(Ian) and Sheffield but Aconitums have never self-sown for us in any of our gardens.
We usually rely on natural germination - expose to winter temperatures and wait for germination to happen in its own time with only a few particular seeds given heat. I read somewhere that one grower starts Aconitum in damp tissues in a poly bag. Has anyone tried this ?
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sowing aconite is very difficult for me too.
3 year cosecutif that I order Aconitum seeds hemsleyanum and still nothing!
I would like climbing Aconitum ...
of Aconitum alboviolaceum, sown 2 years ago, I got 1 seedling this spring (on a very large number of seeds), which gives this now: a stocky plant and really oily
is really Aconitum alboviolaceum, according to you?
[attachimg=1]
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The leaves resemble A. alboviolaceum Véronique, but just after one character with so many Aconitum species it would be hard to say 100%.
By the look of it should flower next year and you will know for sure :)
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so I am very happy if it is indeed Aconitum alboviolaceum!
thank G
this winter I will order new seeds of A. hemselayana, if there is one in the seedlist, and I will deal with GA3, this time.
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I have Aconitum hemsleyanum flowering now in the garden. The picture was taken three days ago
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it's very beautiful :P, kris
it flowers in how many years after sowing ?
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I have Aconitum hemsleyanum flowering now in the garden. The picture was taken three days ago
It is gorgeous! Probably 'Red Wine' cultivar. Too bad it won't have time to set seeds.
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it's very beautiful :P, kris
it flowers in how many years after sowing ?
It took 2 years to flower after transplanting.
Yes Gabriela it is the red wine cultivar. There are some seed setting but I am not sure about maturity. The winter started very early this year.
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Looking up my records of Aconitum seed sown in "baggie" method; in moist paper towel I sowed Aconitum lycoctonum late January 2015 (SRGC exchange) to the refrigerator. In April 2015 I potted up seeds and put pot at 10C (still cool) in my greenhouse until trays positioned outside for summer. Records show by September 8 there was three rooted seeds and designated to stay outside for another winter. May 2017 I divided the three seedlings to their own pots. So it is possible to germinate six month old Aconitum seed using the cold 'baggie' method!
Otherwise, my experience here in Canada with long cold winters is to sow seed as soon as it arrives and leave outside until germination occurs. Sometimes two years or winters.
Sharon
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Otherwise, my experience here in Canada with long cold winters is to sow seed as soon as it arrives and leave outside until germination occurs. Sometimes two years or winters.
I have the same experience here in Finland, and most of the time it takes two years (two warm-cold cycles) for them to germinate.
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Some Aconitum species will germinate in the second year after sowing when dry seeds were sown. Others will never germinate if the seeds were kept dry.
At some point I tried to start a discussion about which Aconitum species may germinate from dry kept seeds - somewhere in the Germination thread.
It would be good to have a list with species that are not too fussy in regards with the germination. Stefan also added his results about few species.
I will post a picture there to bring it to attention and maybe Maggi can do her magic and combine the threads :)
The discussion starts on pag. 62 of the Germinating now - photos of seedlings thread
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Thanks Maggi! it's good to have everything on Aconitum germination in one place :)
I hope more people will post their notes about sowing various species with dry or fresh seeds/moist.
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Since the genus Aconitum has both recalcitrant and "non-recalcitrant" seed species, then I would guess that there might be some recalcitrant types with dried seed that can be brought back through slow hydration, as opposed to direct planting. Has anyone experimented with this?
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Here’s a Christmas gift - I compiled all the data available about Aconitum in the table below (hope it is readable). It provides guidance and a good framework for those willing to contribute further.
My advice is to try and get close up pictures with the seeds before sowing; most often they can be used to confirm the identity of species and keep track of the seeds provenience.
Contradictory results are possible due to: incorrect ID of species (to err is human), natural variations in the germination pattern due to collection region, garden cult. versus wild coll. seeds. I will update the table when more info becomes available. Feel free to contribute.
Merry Christmas! May all your seeds germinate in 2019!
[attachimg=1]
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Now that's a useful present, Gabriela! Thank you - and Merry Christmas!
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I was hoping that the GA3 would make them sprout the first spring, but no ..
thank you Gabriella, it's very useful for me.
on the fresh seeds of A. hemseleyanum that Kris sent me a few weeks ago: I put them in a wet bag in the refrigerator while waiting to treat all my seeds at the same time. by examining the bag today (ga3), I saw about 10 well-swollen seeds that seem ready to germinate. ;D the others are either empty or do not react.
thank you Kris
Merry Christmas
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Let's not forget Veronique that there are so many other Aconitum species than those in the table, they may have different patterns of germination.
Good luck with the hemsleyanum! it is very beautiful. Do not forget to take good notes so we can add to the table above.
Fresh seeds may not need GA3 treatment but it's always good to experiment :)
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Thank you Gabriela for the useful information in table form!
I will have to keep better records of my Aconitum sowings, mostly I think all have germinated for me after two years, but I don't have many species. I have gotten plants from seeds at least from the following: A.kirinense, A.napellus, A.septentrionale, A.vulparia and A.yezoense.
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Thank you Gabriela for the useful information in table form!
I will have to keep better records of my Aconitum sowings, mostly I think all have germinated for me after two years, but I don't have many species. I have gotten plants from seeds at least from the following: A.kirinense, A.napellus, A.septentrionale, A.vulparia and A.yezoense.
Thanks Leena! i will have these in the table right away and in the spring will post it here updated.
Maybe others will add more species until then.
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Helped greatly by this forum (this thread in particular, thanks all!) I have managed to germinate some fresh seeds of A. incisofidum. Now that they are up, I'm wondering at what stage to prick them out/repot? Only the cotyledons are currently showing, so probably better to wait for a bit?
Thanks in advance,
Marco
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I'm wondering at what stage to prick them out/repot?
I would wait until you have at least 2-3 real leaves, but they're not difficult once they've germinated. Give some weak fertilizer when watering, and they should be "prickable" in May.
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Helped greatly by this forum (this thread in particular, thanks all!) I have managed to germinate some fresh seeds of A. incisofidum. Now that they are up, I'm wondering at what stage to prick them out/repot? Only the cotyledons are currently showing, so probably better to wait for a bit?
Thanks in advance,
Marco
There is a lot to learn here in the forum Marco, that's for sure.
I would say it depends how thick your sowing is. If you have lots of seedlings in a small pot (like I showed A. alboviolaceum) I would advise to prick them as soon as possible, or when you see that the first leaf wants to grow. Be gentle, water well; they will be OK. (tip - let the pot dry out before pricking, small roots break more easily if the mix is too wet/heavy).
If your sowing is not too thick, then wait a bit longer but not until May - in my opinion. Aconitums have quite robust seedlings and they like to get going fast. The sooner they have more space the better they grow, just like Helleborus seedlings. If you wait too long they will stagnate in growth.
Good growing!
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My Christmas gift - the revised notes on Aconitum germination.
Notable from last year sowings: Aconitum moldavicum from 2 different sources, no germination, maybe next spring.
If someone else has kept notes on germination last year (of well ID species), I'm happy to incorporate them.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
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for Aconitum hemsleyanum:
sowing from SRGC seeds (therefore dried for a few months):
- without GA3: no germination after 3 spring (attempted 2 times)
-with Ga3 (750 ppm): some germinations on the 1st spring
-fresh seeds sown immediately in autumn: (with ga3) no germination the first spring.
I am unfortunately not sure that my few beautiful seedlings (in pot ) succeeded in the summer of 2019, too hot. ???
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Thank you Gabriela for the notes.
For me A.moldavicum didn't germinate either the first year, I'm glad to know it wasn't maybe my fault, and it could germinate next spring. A.kusnetzovii germinated the first year fine.
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Thanks, Gabriela. Very helpful. I sowed 4 pots of frsh Aconitum yezoense seeds (16 per pot) on 9th November nad a couple of days ago got first germinations (approximately 5 so far out of 64). None of the others sown at a similar time (japonicum, lamarkii,loczyanum.prolifrum and subcuneatum) have shown any signs of germination yet. All are in a small wall 'greenhouse' exposed to outside temperatures. I have just discovered PEG6000 as a tool to soften hard coated seeds so will experiment shortly.
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I should have said that last year the only successful germinations in the first year were fourf Acoitum lczyanum and teo proliferum, both in early March so the December germinations of A. yezoense were a real surprise.
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for Aconitum hemsleyanum:
sowing from SRGC seeds (therefore dried for a few months):
- without GA3: no germination after 3 spring (attempted 2 times)
-with Ga3 (750 ppm): some germinations on the 1st spring
-fresh seeds sown immediately in autumn: (with ga3) no germination the first spring.
I am unfortunately not sure that my few beautiful seedlings (in pot ) succeeded in the summer of 2019, too hot. ???
Thanks Véronique, I made a note with your findings. I will add to the table in the spring when I hope to also have more results.
There can be differences in germination depending on the source of seeds.
But regarding having no germination from fresh seeds? - it is something that I would repeat again before adding in the table.
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Thank you Gabriela for the notes.
For me A.moldavicum didn't germinate either the first year, I'm glad to know it wasn't maybe my fault, and it could germinate next spring. A.kusnetzovii germinated the first year fine.
It will be interesting to see about A. moldavicum Leena if some seeds will germinate in 2020 spring. It may be one of the more recalcitrant species.
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Thanks, Gabriela. Very helpful. I sowed 4 pots of frsh Aconitum yezoense seeds (16 per pot) on 9th November nad a couple of days ago got first germinations (approximately 5 so far out of 64). None of the others sown at a similar time (japonicum, lamarkii,loczyanum.prolifrum and subcuneatum) have shown any signs of germination yet. All are in a small wall 'greenhouse' exposed to outside temperatures. I have just discovered PEG6000 as a tool to soften hard coated seeds so will experiment shortly.
Yes, some species can have a rapid germination when sown very fresh - A. alboviolaceum and A. lyctotonum as well.
As it was pointed in an early discussion, the seeds of Aconitum species have an underdeveloped embryo at maturity (of the seeds). This is the cause of delayed or sometimes failed germination, not a hard seed coat.
The substances used to create polyethylene glycols (PEGs) are strong pollutants!!! so why use it when there are alternatives available?
Soaking seeds with a hard tegument in warm water for few weeks, or applying 'shocks' with hot water, both work well.
Also, scarification of the seedcoats and nicking are done in the same purpose, to allow water to penetrate easily inside the seeds, which is most important for the start of various processes involved in germination.
Again, these are treatments to apply for seeds with known hard seedcoats, not for species with underdeveloped embryos (case for most Ranunculaceae).